Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep 152: How to Become "A Digital Mayor" With Your Own Video Show

Transcript

Ep 152: How to Become "A Digital Mayor" With Your Own Video Show · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents,
• 0:15
  it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:35
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:17
  Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:19
  Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth
• 1:24
  in Mortgage Marketing.
• 1:25
  Hey, listeners, what's up?
• 1:28
  This is Jeff Zimper.
• 1:29
  Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
• 1:32
  So glad you've tuned in.
• 1:33
  Folks, we've got another episode of Fire coming your way.
• 1:36
  But first, I want to give a shout out to any of you listening.
• 1:39
  I appreciate you tuning in.
• 1:41
  Whether you're a new listener, you've been here a long time.
• 1:43
  I do this for you.
• 1:45
  So if you're getting value out of it, one easy way for you to let me know that you appreciate
• 1:48
  the podcast and the content is, leave us a review wherever you're listening to this
• 1:53
  podcast.
• 1:54
  It helps us grow, reach more people, have a bigger impact on the industry and that is ultimately
• 1:58
  the goal.
• 1:59
  And I want to give a shout out to one of my most recent reviews, actually just dropped
• 2:03
  on December 6, 2019.
• 2:05
  So literally this review is only four days old.
• 2:08
  And it comes from Chase Scaff.
• 2:10
  What's up, Chase?
• 2:11
  Here's Chase's five-star review motivating.
• 2:13
  I was considering getting back in the mortgage industry and starting and to start originating
• 2:18
  loans again and Jeff's podcast convinced me to get started again.
• 2:21
  Every episode is filled with good information, but they also motivate me to do more with
• 2:24
  my business.
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  Recommend to all LOs.
• 2:27
  Chase, thank you so much, man.
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  The fact that our content played a role in helping you make the decision to get started
• 2:33
  again and to motivate you to grow and evolve your business, man, that says a lot.
• 2:39
  I appreciate that.
• 2:40
  So, Chase, you know what to do.
• 2:42
  Hit me up on the Facebook's DM, me, your t-shirt size and your mailing address and let's
• 2:47
  get you off a podcast swag box, all right?
• 2:50
  Anybody else listening who wants to do the same, you know what to do, leave a review and
• 2:53
  then hit me up.
• 2:54
  Just like Chase is going to do and you'll get a cool fun.
• 2:56
  It's funny.
• 2:57
  I was talking to somebody the other day who had one of the t-shirts on and they said, wow,
• 3:01
  this thing is super soft.
• 3:02
  Yeah.
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  See, I believe in quality.
• 3:04
  I'm not into those cheesy, cheap t-shirts that feel like you're wearing a piece of tin
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  foil over you.
• 3:09
  All right.
• 3:10
  So, love to hear your reviews, guys.
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  Appreciate it.
• 3:12
  And, right, it's a passion project and doing this all for you.
• 3:17
  And also, if you're looking for more, hey, come join us in the private Facebook group.
• 3:22
  Just for podcast listeners at Mortgage Marketing Radio on Facebook, just Google that, search,
• 3:27
  Google that, go to Facebook and type it in Facebook search bar Mortgage Marketing Radio
• 3:31
  podcast group and we'll welcome you into the group.
• 3:35
  So let's get rock and then before I forget if you're looking to grow as Chase is, if you're
• 3:40
  going to be motivated, if you're looking for access to tools and resources to help you
• 3:43
  level up, become a modern originator and get maximum agent referrals in minimum time,
• 3:48
  well, we've got something for you.
• 3:51
  It might be for you.
• 3:52
  I don't know.
• 3:53
  That's for you to decide.
• 3:54
  How do you learn more?
• 3:55
  You go to Mortgage Marketing.pro.
• 3:57
  That's right.
• 3:58
  Mortgage Marketing.pro.
• 3:59
  Watch the brief video that will tell you all about what's available for you if you want
• 4:03
  to take the next step in a deeper relationship with me and with a growing community of loan
• 4:08
  officers committed to all those things I mentioned and more.
• 4:12
  Okay.
• 4:13
  So this week's episode, I am thrilled to bring you a relevant timely conversation about being
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  a modern mortgage originator and this gentleman has been on my radar for over a year.
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  This is how long I've been waiting to have him on the podcast.
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  So I'm thrilled.
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  I think you're going to be thrilled as well.
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  If any of you are wondering, like, how do I evolve and pivot?
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  How do I become a modern mortgage originator?
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  You know, Gary Vaynerchuk coined the phrase, become the digital mayor.
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  And you've heard the hype and talk about that video and being hyper local and building
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  a local brand and interviewing local businesses and all those types of ideas.
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  Well, folks, I've got the guy for you today.
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  I got it.
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  Okay.
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  Jonathan McKinnis with hallmark, home mortgage out in South Bend, Indiana, what's known
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  as Michigan, right, area, which is a combination between South Bend and Michigan.
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  And what Jonathan has done an amazing job of over the last year is becoming the digital
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  mayor.
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  He started a show, right, it's called Michigan Living TV.
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  There's links to everything we talk about here in the show notes.
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  You can hop on Facebook right now and search Michigan, a living TV and what you'll see
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  in there is he's got this incredible hyper local personal brand where Jonathan is featuring
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  local businesses and has become a digital mayor.
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  And the engagement that he's getting on these videos is crazy, right, off the hook.
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  What I love about Jonathan though is it's not just a pure, you know, hey, let me do this
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  as a way to get business, although that does organically happen as a result of building
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  a local hyper local personal brand.
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  Jonathan didn't because he wants to be invested in his local community, right, he's in a small
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  town, right, is about a little over 300,000 people total population for him.
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  So you could you could argue he's becoming a big fish in a small pond, right?
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  But you hear Jonathan kind of unpack his process, his journey into pivoting to start to
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  shoot video, how that all came about, kind of the frequency, how here's what's going
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  to be mind blowing for you.
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  When you look, click at the links we've got in the show notes or you go to look on the
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  Facebook page right now and you look at the videos and the quality of the videos and
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  then listen to the podcast and Jonathan, I'll tell you exactly what he uses to film these
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  videos.
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  You'll be as equally blown away, I think as I am if you because what you'll understand
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  is the simplicity of actually making this happen.
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  Yeah, with you being on video or not, hey, look, that's a process for all of us to get
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  comfortable with.
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  But if it's if it's right for you, right, this might be an incredibly insightful and motivating
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  and inspiring podcast for you to listen to.
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  Jonathan does some pretty significant volume, right, over 200 families a year that he helps
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  in his local area.
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  He's a producing branch manager.
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  So he's a busy guy plus he runs a podcast, the guy's doing a lot of different things and
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  he's what he's doing is leveraging a team and systems and he's just an all around, you
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  know, quality, human being.
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  He's the number one ranked mortgage lender in South Bend, number nine in Indiana by Ask
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  a Lender.
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  He's ranked in his local chamber 40 under 40 top 10 loan officers nationally for customer
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  service satisfaction on social survey.
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  That guy's got hundreds of online reviews, five star reviews and stuff like that.
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  And I think you'll enjoy this conversation as much as I have having it with with Jonathan
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  directly.
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  So without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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  Hey, Jonathan, welcome to the show.
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  Thank you.
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  It's good to be on.
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  Thanks to have you on.
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  Finally, I know it's been a long time coming.
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  I think you and I have been throwing messages around for maybe a year or something, but
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  you're incredibly busy.
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  So I appreciate you making the time.
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  All right.
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  So people heard the formal intro, you know, before they started this podcast, but give us
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  the personal info of intro of Jonathan McKinnis, how long you been in the biz, kind of
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  average volume and what do you love about the biz?
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  Yeah, been in the mortgage business for about, I would say, 13 years now.
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  I serve over 200 families a year, that's kind of the goal.
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  So we're going to be approaching around 211 families this year, average loan amounts in
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  my market where I'm at.
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  I'm in the South Bend, Indiana area, if you know where Notre Dame is, we're right by
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  Notre Dame.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  So our average loan amounts right in that 160 price range.
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  And so they're not overly huge, but we do serve quite a few families.
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  We have to make sure we're serving a lot of people to do a good job for this year.
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  You're going to close the volumes around 33 million or so in volume within my team.
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  I do manage a branch of loan officers.
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  There's about 10 of us that produce and I am a producing branch manager myself.
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  So I love the business because I got in and not thinking that I would really thrive
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  necessarily in a sales position, you know, because I don't see myself as there's nothing
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  wrong with sales.
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  I love sales.
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  That's what I'm in.
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  But I was really an introvert growing up and so I never really thought that I would
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  be this person that can make waves within the industry until I changed my mindset and
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  I started thinking more about how I can make an impact on people and impossibly influence
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  people using the idea of my knowledge to give good advice.
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  And so I think if we kind of flip our mentality into thinking that we're not just in sales,
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  we're not trying to sell somebody on a mortgage product.
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  We're trying to get people, you know, trusted advice.
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  And I feel like that tears down some barriers in my mind and has sort of helped me move
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  to a better level of of this industry, you know, really.
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  Yeah.
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  So within, by the way, thank you for the intro.
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  And within that, does that mean at some point in the near a recent past that you made a shift
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  to being more of an educator rather than just, you know, quote sales?
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  Yeah, I think so being in that, well, I mean, I always follow, I mean, here's how I sort
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  of got groomed in the business.
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  I, I followed a really good mentor and he connected me to all of the, the kind of mortgage gurus
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  of the time.
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  And so, you know, the Todd Duncan scripts the high trust sales.
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  That was like the first thing.
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  When I first got into the business, I was dealing with high trust, kind of scripting and
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  making sure that I kind of catered to my client very well, but it took a little while for
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  me to kind of take off.
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  And so we started with that.
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  I'm actually in the core coaching training, so that's the real estate and lending coaching
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  and so I'm a part of that program as well.
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  And so I think I've always had a mentality of educating people, but I never thought that
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  I was the expert.
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  You know, so for me, the struggle was getting to a point where I feel like I can actually
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  give good advice.
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  And so it took a few years for that to happen, but I think that my business has always
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  been built on that idea of being the expert and being somebody that I think represents
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  the business in a professional manner.
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  That was, that was a big thing for me because I remember when I was kind of getting into
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  the Todd Duncan things, they always talk about overcoming objections and the different
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  objections that you may face in your career at certain seasons of your career.
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  And one of the objections that I felt was a critical hurdle for me to get over was getting
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  into the business at a very young age.
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  And so I'm only 35 right now.
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  I started, you know, when I was just, you know, in my, just past my legal adrinking age,
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  I was like 22 or so.
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  And I, or 21 or so, when I got in, I was still in college.
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  And so I didn't even own a home when I first got into the business and I was giving
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  me mortgages to people.
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  And so it was really difficult.
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  So I had to get to a point where what can I bring that's a unique value proposition to
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  my clients where they don't think that I'm just some guy that doesn't know anything.
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  And so I wanted to make sure I came to work with professional clothes on that I had really
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  good scripts that I made sure that I was as polished as possible, it comes to lending
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  guidelines.
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  And so I was just a sponge when I first got in and I think that really helped me a lot.
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  Yeah.
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  I would agree.
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  It's funny.
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  In the early days, I was on a similar path back in 2003 when I began, there really was
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  no training.
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  It was here's your business cards, hit the bricks, pal.
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  But then I came, I saw in my manager's office, there was a set of the Todd Duncan tapes.
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  And I was like, what's this?
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  And yeah, so that to me as well, I always give a shout out to those to Todd Duncan for,
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  I think bringing a certain level of professionalism much similar to that of like a financial advisor.
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  Yes.
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  So I think that's good to know we're both cut from the same cloth there.
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  So it sounds like since then, though, you got the training, the coaching, the guidance
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  to get more confidence, right?
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  Coming from a young person, I understand what you mean.
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  Hey, I don't even know in a home whom I had to tell these people about getting a mortgage.
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  Right.
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  When do you think it did something happen where it clicked and shifted for you, or was
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  it just a consistent application of that over time?
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  You know, there was a, there was this sort of catalyst kind of moment that took place where
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  I realized I could do this.
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  And so when I got in, I, I actually have some family that's in the mortgage in the real
• 13:01
  estate business, a couple real estate agents, my brother and my uncle.
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  And I thought when I would get in, well, I would obviously get a business from them.
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  It wasn't that easy.
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  You know, they, they were very, you know, seasoned and grained in the industry.
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  They knew they had their relationships built.
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  And so it wasn't as easy as I thought.
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  And so I was in the business for about six months.
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  And I remember going to my branch manager and I was nearly in tears thinking that there
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  was just no way that I'm going to make it in this business.
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  I don't like it.
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  I don't like rejection.
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  I don't feel like I'm making any headway.
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  And he encouraged me to stick with it.
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  I was able to make ends meet because I didn't have much in expenses while I was still living
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  at home at the time.
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  And so I stuck it out for a little bit longer.
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  And just it seemed like I got over that hurdle closer to that 10 to 12 month mark really
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  where I started to see some consistent growth.
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  And with that consistency, it became more of a residual thing where I've got relationships
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  built.
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  And over time, it started building those relationships.
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  If you don't do anything that's going to jeopardize that relationship or dishonor the relationship
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  of a referral source, then you can start having a more predictable income.
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  I think it took still a roughly that 12 to 24 months.
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  And I remember vividly when I first started thinking, I mean, I was just kind of in my
• 14:24
  mind praying, I just wish I could snap my fingers and it would be five years later.
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  Because then I know that all that extra effort would have already been established.
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  And of course, it doesn't work that way.
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  But it was just time and effort.
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  But I do think it was around that 10 to 12 month mark is when I started going over
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  that hump a little bit.
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  But a lot of it is mindset as well.
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  So I'm sure your mindset kind of evolved as you had more successes.
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  You leveled up your knowledge or expertise.
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  You felt like you were actually making a difference on those daily conversations with people.
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  Absolutely.
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  I remember a manager saying something to me once when I was new at something and I was
• 15:01
  feeling unsure about myself and, you know, and he basically asked me, so why are you having
• 15:06
  these limitations or whatever, I said, well, because I'm new, right?
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  And he goes, well, how long do you want to be new?
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  I was like, yeah, it's up to me.
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  Right.
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  How long I want to be new?
• 15:18
  You know, they don't know that.
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  So that reminds me when I was obviously new, you, you base your, sometimes you'll base
• 15:27
  your conversations on how many years you've been in the business.
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  You started flipping that and kind of creating my own scripting.
• 15:34
  And I think it might have been a tight dunk in script or it could have been somebody else.
• 15:37
  But either way, they said, I don't base my, my experience necessarily on years in the
• 15:42
  business.
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  I base my experience on transactions that I've had and how many families I served.
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  And so as you serve more families, as you have more transactions on your belt, you
• 15:51
  can say that that's my success record as opposed to, you know, I've been in the business
• 15:55
  for 30 years.
• 15:56
  Well, I don't care if you've been in the business for 30 years.
• 15:58
  If you're only serving 10 families a year, that doesn't matter.
• 16:01
  How many families are you serving?
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  And so you can start changing your scripting and your, in your mental stories, you tell
• 16:06
  yourself, I think, and that makes a big difference.
• 16:09
  You know, I love that.
• 16:10
  That's actually for those listening, that might be a good script to integrate into your
• 16:12
  conversations.
• 16:13
  If you ever get in that situation where you need to kind of demonstrate your knowledge or
• 16:16
  expertise, you know, well, on average, Mr. and Mrs. Prospector customer, you know, I'm
• 16:22
  helping over 200 families a year, you know, and I mean, so that's my level of expertise
• 16:26
  that I bring to this conversation.
• 16:27
  Right.
• 16:28
  And that's why I'm not all about the lowest price, right?
• 16:30
  I'm an advisor of that.
• 16:32
  I love that.
• 16:33
  Okay.
• 16:34
  Very cool, man.
• 16:35
  Thank you for sharing that.
• 16:37
  Before we go on to my next subject, which is, of course, you being yourself a media
• 16:40
  brand, you did mention Notre Dame.
• 16:42
  I'm curious if you're a fan.
• 16:44
  I am a fan of Notre Dame.
• 16:45
  Yes.
• 16:46
  All right.
• 16:47
  Well, in full disclosure, I am a fan of Iowa State.
• 16:50
  Oh.
• 16:51
  Okay.
• 16:53
  Okay.
• 16:54
  We are playing in the bowl.
• 16:55
  Man, coming up to Camping World Bowl, which I would be at in Orlando.
• 17:00
  So yeah, my, my sisters, my wife's sister's son is Brock Purdy, the quarterback for Iowa
• 17:08
  State.
• 17:09
  Very cool.
• 17:10
  Yeah, that's that hopefully should be a good, I think that Iowa State might be a little
• 17:12
  underrated.
• 17:13
  They're actually a pretty good team.
• 17:14
  So we'll see.
• 17:15
  And Notre Dame tends to crumble in the bowl games.
• 17:18
  And so this might be the game where it's a, it's a good one, hopefully.
• 17:21
  I know, man.
• 17:22
  It's, it's going to be a good show.
• 17:24
  Hopefully that, that's all that matters.
• 17:25
  So anyway, I didn't want to like let the moment pass without remembering to bring that
• 17:29
  up.
• 17:30
  That's a friendly, friendly rivalry there.
• 17:31
  Okay.
• 17:32
  So what, what really brought you on my radar amongst another variety of things, you're active
• 17:37
  in the mortgage code community, right?
• 17:38
  Yes.
• 17:39
  Orgge code user, right?
• 17:40
  And all that kind of stuff.
• 17:41
  So we're all in these, some of these similar communities on Facebook or whatnot.
• 17:44
  But what I started to notice from you, just on my own radar, came up about a year ago is
• 17:48
  you building this personal brand that is largely driven by being, you know, kind of a local
• 17:53
  media entity in your local area using video.
• 17:58
  And so I want to kind of unpack the conversation today about that.
• 18:01
  You've created this show.
• 18:02
  It's Michigan, a living TV.
• 18:04
  Is that correct?
• 18:05
  Correct.
• 18:06
  That's the name.
• 18:07
  All right.
• 18:08
  So, so how long have you been doing that show?
• 18:10
  It's actually been a good roughly year and a half going on the two year point in full
• 18:16
  disclosure, too.
• 18:17
  It actually wasn't my original idea.
• 18:18
  It was actually the idea of our marketing department within my mortgage company, Holmark
• 18:23
  and Mortgage.
• 18:24
  And they are the ones who kind of got a test group of subjects, if you will, of different
• 18:29
  loan officers that they thought would be able to run with this idea.
• 18:34
  And you know, it's one thing having an idea, it's another thing implementing an idea
• 18:38
  and struggle with most, just like mortgage coach users.
• 18:40
  I mean, there's a lot of people that have access to it, but they'll never implement it
• 18:43
  because they just never take that next step.
• 18:46
  And so it's something that was given to many of us, but very few people actually stuck
• 18:52
  with it.
• 18:53
  And so they created this brand opportunity, and I just continue to run with it and created
• 18:59
  my own channel.
• 19:01
  So as a company, we have our own kind of marketing channel, if you will, within Facebook.
• 19:06
  Okay.
• 19:07
  And they have their own YouTube and everything.
• 19:08
  But they said, hey, you can do this on a local level as well.
• 19:11
  You create your own brand and do that.
• 19:13
  And so that's what I've done.
• 19:15
  So you, who came up with Michigan a living?
• 19:17
  I came up with the name, Michigan a living TV.
• 19:19
  And Michigan, if you're not from around here, you wouldn't really know what it means because
• 19:25
  it's, to me, hyper local, you're dealing with where we're located in northern Indiana
• 19:30
  and southern Michigan, southwest Michigan, they call it Michigan because we're on that
• 19:34
  state line of Michigan and Indiana so we can kind of cross on licenses in both states
• 19:38
  when it comes to mortgages.
• 19:39
  And so for those that are local, it makes perfect sense.
• 19:43
  Right.
• 19:44
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  People see that local people, they get it, which is a great point by the way, hyper local.
• 19:50
  Why did you recognize that as an opportunity for you?
• 19:53
  What did you see in that when that came up?
• 19:55
  Well, one of the things in the mortgage space that we're in right now is you're dealing
• 20:00
  with way more competition and a lot of it is online competition.
• 20:04
  And you're dealing with out of the area competition and one of the things that I mentally said
• 20:11
  or I kind of the decisions that kind of kept me doing this was buyers needing to see the
• 20:20
  value of a local professional.
• 20:23
  And it's one thing saying I'm a local professional, it's another thing saying I'm investing in
• 20:27
  the community that I'm in.
• 20:29
  And so when we can connect with businesses, I mean, there's so many reasons, but I'll
• 20:34
  explain the first one is I just felt like being that community lender is the message that
• 20:40
  we want to get across and we're ingrained in the community.
• 20:43
  And that's one more reason why a person should see the value in working with this local lender.
• 20:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:50
  Okay.
• 20:51
  That was the first reason.
• 20:52
  All right.
• 20:53
  So you wanted to be known, established a local community presence invested in the community.
• 21:00
  What about, I mean, you know, let's reference Gary V for a second, right?
• 21:04
  Are you a follower of Gary's?
• 21:06
  Yes.
• 21:07
  I mean, vaguely.
• 21:08
  I mean, not always, but yes, I do know him.
• 21:10
  Well, you know, he coined the phrase several years ago about become the digital mayor, right?
• 21:15
  And of course, it looks like did that have any influence on you in terms of like, you
• 21:19
  know, that whole, how can I say this, that whole messaging, that whole kind of push from
• 21:25
  people like Gary and others that we now, our personal brand is really the only difference
• 21:30
  maker.
• 21:31
  Absolutely.
• 21:32
  And that's the message with mortgage coach brought that up to me multiple times.
• 21:35
  And that's something that has stuck with me.
• 21:39
  And it's one of those things where I think Gary V actually said that you can't, and
• 21:42
  Kai McBride had brought it up in an interview that I was on with him in Dave Savage, and
• 21:46
  he brought up the fact that you can't necessarily measure your ROI on a video that you do or on
• 21:53
  maybe a podcast in particular, how many new leads that I get from that particular podcast.
• 21:57
  But you can influence people in a more organic way, and that's how I see it.
• 22:02
  I see it as not so much where, hey, I've done so many new podcast interviews, or I've
• 22:08
  done so many new Michigan, a living TV interviews.
• 22:11
  Therefore, I've got this many more closings that I think that will, that comes maybe, but
• 22:15
  it's hard for you to measure it.
• 22:17
  It's hard for you to measure because you're just continuing to find ways to influence
• 22:21
  people.
• 22:22
  And this is just one more platform to positively influence the community.
• 22:26
  Well, thus far about a year and a half in, have you had anybody who, you know, comes to you
• 22:32
  to you to get a mortgage by way of your local brand exposure with Michigan, a living TV?
• 22:37
  Absolutely. We've done it because we do it in a way where now it's very, very careful not to
• 22:44
  push mortgages down people's throat when it comes to the video.
• 22:48
  We do want to be a genuine resource within the community.
• 22:51
  So we start there.
• 22:53
  We just have very intentional branding.
• 22:56
  So at the end of the video, you'll see our logo and then we'll be sharing it within our
• 23:00
  personal groups and some of the friends that we have within our social media community.
• 23:06
  And that has been very influential where we get messages online and people asking questions
• 23:13
  regarding the mortgage industry.
• 23:15
  And for me, it's not even that what it does when I am, when I have a very low, low threat reason
• 23:24
  to get in front of a business owner within our area, what it does is it gives me an open door
• 23:30
  in a platform to connect with businesses.
• 23:33
  And so what you're doing is you're getting out in front of a guy that owns a business that's
• 23:36
  very successful and you're interviewing them. You're saying how many give you free advertising
• 23:40
  on our social media page and we just want to show some love to our local businesses in the
• 23:45
  area. And so that's like the other, you know, we give business cards and we connect with
• 23:50
  those business owners. That's the other avenue that we're taking. So it's not just social,
• 23:53
  it's actually personal when we're meeting with those business owners.
• 23:57
  So then I would say kind of organically, you know, what's bubbling up for you is people
• 24:02
  realize, oh, you're also in the mortgage business. And by default, people are asking you questions
• 24:07
  or maybe sending you referrals or something. Absolutely. And so for me, though,
• 24:11
  that there's so many reasons why I do it. So that's the like the third or fourth reason
• 24:15
  whatever I've mentioned so far is I'm a branch manager. I'm a producing branch manager. And
• 24:20
  therefore I want to make sure that whatever activities I do, I try to share the wealth. I try
• 24:25
  to tell my loan officers, here's what you can do as well. And so what I did is I created this
• 24:29
  page where I actually help my loan officers go out and they can do their own interviews as well.
• 24:33
  So they can connect with other businesses. And I'm the one just helping produce the video and
• 24:38
  getting a tour marketing department for them. And so the other thing is it allows them to connect
• 24:44
  with business. We have one that's posting right now. We're actually doing something
• 24:47
  called the Michigan, the Michigan living pizza tour. We're going to different restaurants that
• 24:52
  are pizzerias in the area. And I have one of my loan officers that I went to this place called
• 24:58
  Luigi's Pizza. And he did the interview. I was there and I helped him. He gave his business
• 25:03
  cards. And he's the one who is the host of that interview, but it's on the Michigan
• 25:09
  living page. And so what it's doing is it's me on a social media platform connecting with people,
• 25:16
  me personally connecting with businesses, me adding value to my loan officers within my company
• 25:21
  and allowing them to connect with businesses as well. And so that's how I see it. Now when you say
• 25:26
  on the page, right? Where do all these videos live? I'm on your Facebook page. We'll put links
• 25:30
  all this in the show notes. But where else does it live? Is it just on that Michigan living
• 25:34
  Facebook page? Yes. Right now in the stage that we're in, and this is simply because I'm just going
• 25:39
  off of my marketing departments. They're kind of their goals. And right now they feel like on
• 25:46
  the local level, the most influence we're going to have is going to be through Facebook. And then
• 25:50
  of course they do want to get to Instagram, but it's a little bit tricky on Instagram because you
• 25:55
  have to different the way you do video. It's a little slice it up. Yeah, just a little bit
• 25:59
  different. So we haven't only gotten through the Instagram space, but it's right now in our
• 26:05
  infancy stages. We're just on Facebook right now. All right. So no, it's not on YouTube yet either.
• 26:11
  It's not I don't have my on YouTube now. Our company may have their own, but it's not anything
• 26:17
  that has a ton of followers. It's mainly we get more of our attraction comes from Facebook.
• 26:23
  Yeah, let's speak about that for a moment actually. Your engagement is amazing. How many,
• 26:28
  what's the population of Missyanna? Well, when it comes to Missyanna, you're probably looking at
• 26:34
  I'm gosh, we're looking at Southwest Michigan along with Northern Indiana. So you're probably close
• 26:38
  to around maybe 300,000. Wow. That's that's small. I mean, we're I used to live in Orange County,
• 26:46
  man. There was three million people just in Orange County, you know. All right. So I'm looking
• 26:51
  at your view counts here. And by the way, I'm not doing this for Van any metrics or anything like
• 26:54
  that, but it speaks for itself. Just a video you posted a week ago, December 4th, and we're recording
• 27:02
  this. It's December 10th. So six days. You've got a thousand views already on this mouthwatering
• 27:08
  pieces in South Bend, East Bank village. You got this other pizza place, 1.6 thousand view. Yeah,
• 27:15
  1.6 views. I mean, you're averaging over one to three, even as high as 5,000 videos on views
• 27:25
  on these videos, man. Yep. I mean, that's significant. Yeah, we boost. We pay $25 to boost mainly.
• 27:34
  So you'll take a video that's already getting some good engagement. You'll just boost it
• 27:38
  rather than do the whole full ad thing. Yeah, we just boost boosted for $25. That's it. That's the
• 27:45
  marketing budget. That's what you think is driving up the views is because that's exposing it to
• 27:49
  so many more people. It's actually not. So when I look at the metrics on it, most of it is organic.
• 27:56
  And you know, Facebook will tell you if it's organic or if it's paid views. Right. And it has been so
• 28:01
  most of it's organic. Yeah. Why do you think it's getting such good traction? Because we're local
• 28:06
  businesses. And so it's just, you know, we're friend. One of the things we do is we try to make
• 28:11
  sure we're friends with a lot of people. And so, you know, for me, personally, and I'm sharing
• 28:16
  it on my other pages. And there's, you know, I've got, you know, in close to 3,000, you know,
• 28:22
  friends or followers on my personal business page. And so for me, it's just, you know, locally
• 28:28
  speaking, we're just, we're connecting on a local level with people. And most of the businesses
• 28:32
  that we interview, they have their own followers as well. And so when you tag that business,
• 28:38
  you're tagging their followers, and they're seeing that on their page as well, they allow that
• 28:41
  to land on their page. Tell me about briefly your process for reaching out to companies. And I'm
• 28:47
  wondering if now you're such a known entity that they're like, like, no, who's calling. But
• 28:52
  tell me about that. How do you reach out to business? Yeah. So we do a couple of things. Like,
• 28:56
  there's one strategy that we've used in what we've used for the pizza one is maybe a month or
• 29:02
  so ago, we'll just post a question on the page that says, hey, Michiana, something like those
• 29:09
  along those lines, what's your favorite pizzeria in the area? And so then we'll just go out of comments.
• 29:13
  So that allows us then to reach out to that pizzeria and say, hey, we have a lot of comments. They
• 29:17
  said that you'd be a great person to interview. So that's one thing. Another thing we do is we just
• 29:22
  connect with the ones that we may have already had relationships with, that we go to ourselves.
• 29:28
  And that's pretty easy. We already go. They're like that Barnaby's pizza, the one that you
• 29:33
  recently saw, that one is a place that I personally have gone to. 50 years there. Wow.
• 29:38
  Yeah. And so they're a staple. They don't need the video. They already have enough forward.
• 29:44
  We want the video because of all their followers. We want to highlight them because of all the
• 29:49
  people that are fans of theirs. And so we like to connect them. So I think you do it in multiple
• 29:54
  ways. But we do get messages on Facebook asking for the interview. Like the one we had one recently,
• 30:02
  we went to a place called Napani, Indiana, just a small town that's in the Missiana area. So I
• 30:07
  think if you started adding up other towns, we would be over 300,000. But we went to Napani.
• 30:12
  And they, it was a husband of the owner that wanted us to interview his wife. We had just
• 30:18
  opened this bakery. And that was a hit in Napani, just a small town. But we had over like 80 shares.
• 30:26
  We had multiple, multiple comments about how they do a tremendous job. And we went to another small
• 30:32
  town in North Liberty. Somebody reached out to us about doing the interview with them in those small
• 30:38
  town places. They have a lot of fans. And so it's been really cool. Who's covering the expense for
• 30:44
  this? Well, we, when it comes, this is where it gets tricky. So if you're trying to do this on
• 30:49
  your own, it gets a little bit harder. But we, we actually have our own marketing department within
• 30:54
  hallmark that, so how, how it looks when it comes to shooting the video and then turning the video in,
• 31:02
  we shoot all the videos on an iPhone. Really? Yep. We use on an iPhone. The videos look really good,
• 31:09
  by the way, for those you got to go watch the videos. Yeah. So we try to get the lighting
• 31:13
  right. Sometimes the lighting is not great. And you know, it shows at times. But we're not trying
• 31:18
  to go for like 100% this just ultra quality. We're going for content and decent enough quality.
• 31:25
  And we've had people like marketing companies reach out to me saying, hey, I can help you with your
• 31:28
  audio and we get sound better. And I said, hey, I don't need that. It's all good. But so using an
• 31:34
  iPhone, we have a tripod we got from Amazon. We have a lapel mic. We plug into the bottom of the
• 31:38
  the iPhone. And then we have just a little camera kit that has a light on it. So if I'm in an area
• 31:46
  where it's not the best lighting that I can turn a little mini light on. Right. It helps a little
• 31:50
  bit. I have a gimbal, an Osmo gimbal where I put my phone in where you can put your cell phone in,
• 31:55
  it makes it smoother when you're doing your B-roll. They call it B-roll when you do the footage that
• 31:59
  goes over the interview. And so we do all of that with myself. So nobody else, there's no crew,
• 32:05
  there's nobody else there. And then sometimes my wife goes or somebody from our office will be the
• 32:11
  one running the camera. So there's nothing crazy about that. Once I turn, once I get the video clips in,
• 32:18
  all I do is we have like kind of like a drop box, similar to drop box, a function in our company
• 32:24
  where we just put the videos in that drop box function. And then the people in our marketing
• 32:28
  department has access to that folder. They just jump in there and they start putting together the
• 32:33
  videos for you. They do the editing. That's the cost, that's company, that's company cost. So
• 32:39
  there's no cost to me besides the equipment that I bought myself. But that's not hitting your
• 32:44
  P&Ls or anything? No, it's not. I'm on a retail branch. So I don't run a P&L like some others would,
• 32:51
  but I would imagine if I was running a P&L, it might be a little bit different. So that would be
• 32:55
  that would be something that each company would probably be unique to. Well, again, man, I was not
• 33:02
  under the impression that you were doing most of this filming by yourself. Now a couple of the
• 33:07
  films you can tell, obviously you got somebody else there because of the way the camera is moving.
• 33:11
  But in general, for the interviews, you've got, it's not a wireless lapel, it's a wired lapel mic,
• 33:16
  right? Yep. So you got the dual thing kind of going into the file, right? So very basic,
• 33:22
  I mean, the setup you described, I mean, a couple hundred bucks maybe. That's it. You know,
• 33:27
  that is it. And you got the gimbal. So you're doing your own B roll, which is you just kind of,
• 33:32
  and again, everybody was listening, go and look at the videos and stuff, right? Like the pizza
• 33:36
  example, because that's the most recent one, you're scanning the pizza ovens and the counter and
• 33:43
  the, you know, all the visuals that help you take in what this place, somebody putting the pizza
• 33:47
  in the oven. That's just you standing there with your gimbal. That's it. That's all it is.
• 33:53
  The impression is that the production value is higher than that. I have to say it's a good job.
• 34:00
  Now, I don't produce them. And that's where it gets tricky. And so you could do that. I don't know
• 34:05
  if I'd have the time to produce all my own, but producing me net it. Edit it. Yeah. Right.
• 34:10
  Right. No, I 100% you should outsource editing 100%. We should not be doing that. And there's
• 34:16
  enough affordable places or people to do that, whether it's young people in your area,
• 34:20
  fiber, upwork, all that kind of stuff. I mean, I got a video editor. If somebody needs one,
• 34:24
  let me know. But very, very smart. Okay. So in terms of you interviewing people, was that a natural
• 34:32
  for you? You know, I was clunky maybe my first when I was just doing some kind of a club, man.
• 34:41
  Role playing it kind of was not that normal, but you know what? It does. It's now it's just kind of
• 34:47
  it's just a part of the interview process. It's kind of easy for me to ask the few quick questions.
• 34:52
  I mean, all the questions when it comes to the business is very similar. You know, you do your intro,
• 34:56
  you do your top three questions. How did you get started? You know, what are you known for?
• 35:00
  What are some other things and how can people connect with you? You know, that kind of stuff.
• 35:03
  So it's pretty easy flow. Interesting. And it's something you enjoy doing.
• 35:10
  Yeah, I feel like I can communicate well enough where it's clear. I don't feel like
• 35:18
  I that's a struggle. I think that maybe one of my strong suits. I'm okay with communicating. I'm
• 35:24
  okay with being in front of the my cell phone, you know, the camera. I'm okay with social media.
• 35:30
  I've embraced that. I initially, maybe a few years ago, didn't. I didn't like it. You know,
• 35:35
  I almost was at a point where you know, I'd rather not get business that way, but it's so far
• 35:40
  down the road in our society where you've got to embrace video. You got to embrace social media.
• 35:47
  And if you don't, you maybe mediocre at best. So you chose to adapt instead of play the ostrich?
• 35:54
  Yeah, I think you need to. I mean, you could probably survive in the business to an extent.
• 35:59
  If you don't do that, but you certainly would not create a brand and you certainly would not be as
• 36:03
  much of an influencer if you did it that the old school way. Well, all right. And so that goes back
• 36:09
  to what are you left with if you don't have a personal brand? You're left with price.
• 36:14
  That's right. You're commodity. You know, if you don't have any compelling value proposition
• 36:20
  for the customer to choose you over somebody else, I mean, let's face it, a lot of people are
• 36:25
  probably drawn to want to consider you for their mortgage needs mainly because you're clearly
• 36:34
  all about local. Right. And they'd rather a fair amount or a larger percentage of people would rather
• 36:40
  support the local than off to some big box company. Right. Now, I got to agree with you. I think
• 36:45
  you have to have a compelling reason to work with you besides just saying that, you know, my rates
• 36:51
  and fees are better than everyone else's because unfortunately, that's not always the case, you know.
• 36:55
  And by the way, if people listening and you're not yet ready to get started on video,
• 37:00
  the questions that you're posting in your Facebook group or page, I should say are great questions
• 37:06
  to drive interaction and engagement. Anyways, think about where you live right now. Like some of
• 37:10
  the questions Jonathan, you're posting in there is what's your favorite pizza place in Michiana,
• 37:14
  right? Another one was what restaurant serves up the best breakfast. And those are straight up great
• 37:20
  social engagement questions that will, I mean, look at this one 64 comments, you know, people love
• 37:26
  those questions and people love to give props to local places they like. Absolutely. So that's just
• 37:31
  one quick tip for you to easily get started. And then secondly, I mean, then look at I'm just
• 37:35
  again, I'm just following your Facebook page. So you're going to get a lot of additional traffic and
• 37:37
  likes and views. Right. Which is cool. Thanks. Yeah. But like I'm looking at the the student baker fountain
• 37:44
  in South Bend. Looks really cool and beautiful as well lit fountain at night and everything,
• 37:49
  all these cool colored lights. But these are conversational things that are that are yes,
• 37:54
  topical, but give you something to talk about other than just, hey, conforming rates have gone up,
• 38:01
  you know, right? And actually, you know, to maybe digress just a moment, it allows us to engage with
• 38:10
  some of our real estate agents. Now, there are real estate agents that we have had on as guests
• 38:17
  interviewees, interviewers. Right. And so they, I said, hey, connect us to a business that you
• 38:22
  want us to support. And so we've had multiple real estate agents on the videos with us. Now,
• 38:28
  it's difficult because a lot of people still have not embraced video and they're not wanting to
• 38:32
  be on there. But this gives us a reason to reach out to our business partners and add value to
• 38:37
  them as well. And say, hey, you know, we'll do it together. I'll help you out. We'll do the
• 38:41
  interview and I'll give you the questions to ask. And hopefully we can add value to your business.
• 38:46
  We actually had, I had a real estate agent that I work with have one for past clients who owns
• 38:52
  a cute little boutique, you know, shop. And we went to that shop with the real estate agent because
• 38:59
  it was that realtor's past client. So she was able to add value to her client, which is really
• 39:02
  cool. Yeah, that was another thing. How do you choose who you want to feature as an agent? And
• 39:09
  do you have to deal with people wanting to get on the show who you don't want to team up with
• 39:13
  as far as agents? You know, what's funny is that we don't have, we have not had that problem.
• 39:18
  Oh, you thought that we initially did because we actually had a lunch in like a breakfast where we
• 39:23
  was invite only to people about social media and about this page. And we thought that there was
• 39:29
  going to be this had a lot of them. Hey, can I be on there? Can I be on there? And you know,
• 39:33
  we haven't had a lot of people. I think it goes back to that old issue that Achilles heel of people
• 39:40
  of not wanting to be on video, not wanting to step out. And so in order for it to happen,
• 39:45
  we have to almost proactively ask the real estate agents, do you want to be on?
• 39:50
  And so, you know, it just hasn't been as much of an issue as we thought, but it is a value add
• 39:57
  when we take the time to make that call to that agent though. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah.
• 40:01
  Good stuff, man. I mean, definitely you're leading from the front in terms of like video content
• 40:06
  and things like that. That's why I wanted to have you on. Very impressive. Also, you started a you
• 40:12
  just you just want to have like this, I don't know, crazy amount of tolerance for punishment.
• 40:18
  You started a podcast as well. Yeah, I did. I went ahead and tried something out. I was
• 40:24
  speaking to a buddy of mine who I did alone for. And he started a podcast in our markets called
• 40:31
  South Bend Beat actually. So if anyone wants to know more about South Bend, he does a really good
• 40:35
  job. So it's Kyle Conner. But I connected with him and I asked him, how do you get your podcast
• 40:40
  going? And he connected me with a guy that helps him produce it in our local area. And his name's
• 40:48
  Michael Yoder. And a young just great professional. That's all he does. He helps produce podcasts
• 40:54
  within our area, but all over the country is what it sounds like. But anyway,
• 40:58
  I connected with him, had coffee with him. He told me that's the way to do it. He says, you
• 41:01
  should be on podcasts. I said, okay, I'll try it out. Let's test it out. I'm not doing anything
• 41:05
  great. I'm not doing video podcasting or anything like that right now. And I said, you know,
• 41:12
  what can I do that would add value? It's not so much always business. It's just what is going to
• 41:17
  fulfill me? And I feel like sometimes we, we, and this is something that I put out on a video
• 41:24
  once that we get so caught up in reacting all the time in life and being overly distracted in
• 41:32
  life and always at the mercy of other people's agendas that we never create. And if you never
• 41:38
  create, then I believe you live an unfulfilled life. And I think we were created to be creative.
• 41:44
  And I thought that was the thing going into kind of being in that podcast was like, you know what,
• 41:49
  I want to just, I want to create something that might be kind of cool. And so I started doing
• 41:52
  that. It's called purpose and performance where really I have business people on. I have past
• 41:58
  clients. I've had real estate agents on. I've done it on my own where I just go through a 30-minute,
• 42:03
  40-minute podcast interview, just like we're doing now and trying to get some value, some nuggets
• 42:09
  that would help people with personal growth and find more purpose in their life.
• 42:13
  That's great, man. And so you've been doing that over roughly a year, right?
• 42:17
  Yeah, it's been about a year and a half on my fall of 2019. This is like my second season,
• 42:22
  I guess. You would call it. So I've got about maybe five more episodes to record for the 2019
• 42:27
  season. But it's out on, you know, pod meme, you know, iTunes, Google. Yeah, we'll put links to
• 42:32
  that as well. So this leads to the question where I try to know is circulating through some
• 42:36
  people's minds, which is how do you find the time to do it all? Well, delegation is key. And so as
• 42:42
  you noted, I do not edit the mission of living videos. I do not produce or edit the podcast
• 42:52
  recordings that I do. And I have a team that helps me with production as well. Now I am the only
• 43:00
  one that's actually out producing. So it's not like I'm in the office and I've got three other
• 43:02
  guys that are loan officers going out and getting business. They're actually internal production
• 43:07
  partners that are like transaction managers, I have a transaction manager, two production partners
• 43:10
  that help me. So when the phone rings, they can answer the phone. Right. You know, they can help
• 43:14
  schedule my appointments and things of that nature. I could not do it if I was doing the same amount
• 43:19
  of volume and I didn't have a team. Right. There's no way. Okay. So it sounds like what you're doing is
• 43:25
  you are focused on the critical few, right? And delegating all the rest. Yeah, I mean,
• 43:33
  the goal for our team is always for me to meet with all the clients. So it's not like I'm not
• 43:36
  meeting with anybody. I am wanting to meet face-to-face, going over the mortgage coach presentation
• 43:43
  face-to-face with as many clients as possible, trying to have as many face-to-face appointments with
• 43:50
  real estate agents or VIPs as possible, trying to have good, you know, enriching phone calls every
• 43:55
  week. We're trying to do the tactical kind of old school things, getting in front of people,
• 44:00
  making the phone calls, sending the thank you cards. You know, I'm doing those things
• 44:06
  personally. And what they're doing is they're just kind of starting the process. So they're
• 44:10
  getting a loan application started. They're maybe getting documentation from a client. They're
• 44:15
  scheduling the appointment with me. And my transaction manager once that loan is submitted,
• 44:21
  then she's helping process. She's not a processor. We've got a processor that's dedicated to the loan,
• 44:26
  but she's the one that's helping with any fires that need to be put out. She's communicating when
• 44:30
  the appraisal comes back. She's giving me certain touch points where Jonathan, you need to make
• 44:34
  the phone call on this. So it's just they do a really good job of being very, you know, good at
• 44:40
  their job. You know, they're okay with having that, I guess, the ability to make their own decisions
• 44:50
  because they know what they're doing. They're professionals. Are you taking all your loan apps?
• 44:56
  No, I don't take all the loan apps. No, no, no. So I don't generally answer the first phone call.
• 45:02
  The phone call will be answered by Hannah. That's one of my teams. So she's kind of that director
• 45:05
  of first impressions. And she's taken the intake call. She is licensed. Sure. And so she does. She
• 45:11
  can actually quote rates if she wanted to. She can go through all the mortgage coach TCA's and she
• 45:16
  could do all that. She doesn't necessarily have to do all that because my goal is to be the one going
• 45:21
  over the product information, going over the rates. I'm the one that generally locks in the loan.
• 45:25
  And then I hand it off to Laura, my transaction manager after that's done.
• 45:30
  So yeah, your front-end lead person though, like you said, director of first impressions,
• 45:36
  is she collecting a full 1003 or just the basics, you know, needs and want. Oh, she is. Okay.
• 45:40
  She is. Yeah. So if she was not licensed, I think I would be probably having her. I used to have
• 45:45
  somebody who wasn't licensed. They were kind of taking that intake that the hopes and dreams call
• 45:49
  a kind of thing and then handing it off. But, you know, Hannah is able to do a little bit more
• 45:55
  than that and analyze a pay stub and look at W2s and bank statements and things like that. And then
• 46:01
  she can issue pre-approval letters for me as well. But the goal is to have as many appointments with
• 46:07
  me following up with that client as possible. So I always want them to know, especially my
• 46:12
  referrals, which is I want them to know that I'm still involved in these transactions. It's not like
• 46:16
  Jonathan's just the team in name, but he's never involved in anything. I'm involved in every file.
• 46:22
  Yeah, that's good, man. Nice, nice system you've got there. It's funny because I just recorded
• 46:26
  a podcast prior to this. Somebody just three years in the biz and already hired their first
• 46:32
  assistant before hitting the three-year mark, which had allowed him to grow, so basically double
• 46:39
  his business, you know, doing 82 units and it's going to probably do another multiple of that
• 46:46
  in the next year. But again, without a team, you can't grow. Right. No, you have to be willing to
• 46:51
  invest. I think that's a problem. Most people call it spending money, but I see it more as an investment.
• 46:57
  Yes, you're a business. Yeah, absolutely. Got to invest in your business. All right, so just for
• 47:02
  a second time here, we're going to have to wrap it up. But what are you planning for 2020?
• 47:07
  Marketing or biz-wise, that's different, worthy of sharing.
• 47:11
  Well, we want to serve around 250 families. That's our goal. So I think that's an attainable goal.
• 47:18
  My team is at a level where I think we don't need to necessarily add another person on. As a branch
• 47:24
  manager, I'd like to recruit a couple of one or two more people for the next year and in certain
• 47:29
  surrounding areas that we're in. As a producing loan officer, I think keeping many of the tactics
• 47:36
  that we're doing now, but keeping them and also actually following through. So I'm thinking of
• 47:43
  my word for the year and said we all come up with our word. In my word, I believe there's so many
• 47:48
  words I was thinking about, but being effective is the word that I'm thinking of. I want to be
• 47:52
  effective and all that. I don't want to just show up for the sake of showing up, but I want all the
• 47:56
  activities that I do be effective and be impactful. One of the things that we're going to do outside of
• 48:02
  just making my calls, doing my face to faces, doing the machine of living, doing the podcasting on it.
• 48:07
  I've implemented two things this last couple of years that really has helped me mastermind
• 48:13
  meetings with my real estate agent partners. So sitting down with them and having a group of between
• 48:18
  eight and 10 real tours in our local market, and then I'm like the moderator, and I'll just be
• 48:24
  able to go through maybe three questions and go around the room and try to pull out some good
• 48:29
  nuggets for everybody. And then I'll be the one that kind of is recording the event. And then I
• 48:34
  share all the information. So I'm not the one presenting. I'm just the one that's inviting,
• 48:37
  holding the venue, and being the one that takes the notes. So the masterminds are really good.
• 48:43
  Well, by the way, how frequent are those? Well, this last year, what I did is I made it a point
• 48:49
  where it wasn't going to be like, hey, every other week or every month, you guys have to commit to
• 48:53
  this. It was, I say, no commitment. So what I did is I just individually, I said, hey, we're going
• 48:58
  to do one at the beginning of the year, which we did. And then I did another one toward the latter
• 49:02
  part of the year in the fall. So I did two, but there were three separate groups. Yep, different
• 49:08
  agents in each group. Exactly. Different agents in each group. So that was really cool because
• 49:12
  you're getting in front of about 30 agents each time you do it separately, you know. Yes, right.
• 49:18
  And you have the same set of questions. So it's not like you're having to reinvent the wheel for
• 49:21
  this. And you're learning from each one to make the next one better. Absolutely. And so that's been
• 49:26
  really helpful for me. And it's been a nice value ad. The second thing is finally getting off
• 49:32
  of the, the idea of being nervous about doing client appreciation events. I've never done
• 49:38
  client appreciation events. So we're doing one in January. And we're going to do another one,
• 49:44
  most likely in the spring of the fall. But we're going to do ice skating with families where we're
• 49:48
  going to call up to 50 people or VIP clients and invite them to family ice skating day at Howard
• 49:56
  Park, which is actually on the Michigan living page. They just renovated the park. And we figure
• 50:00
  we piggyback off of the new renovations and have ice skating day. And so we're going to do that as
• 50:05
  well. Love that. Love that. Very smart. Yeah, it's funny. You bring that up. And I'm glad you did
• 50:09
  client appreciation events. I don't hear a lot of that in the mortgage space. It's pretty common
• 50:13
  in the real estate space for the savvy agents. But for some reason, why don't LOs do it? It's like,
• 50:18
  why shouldn't you do it? Yeah, it was a struggle for me. And this will be my first one that I'm
• 50:23
  really doing. And I don't know. I felt like maybe mentally, you feel like maybe the relationships
• 50:28
  better built by the realtor. And I don't know. I'm not sure why I never did. It's just maybe laziness
• 50:35
  or it's just fear, but we're doing it. So we're going to see how it goes. Yeah, no, good for you,
• 50:39
  man. When step out, be bold. Real quickly, the mastermind things, that's something that's always
• 50:43
  of interest to me. Do you find, have you ever had agents reluctant to attend or decline? Because,
• 50:49
  you know, they don't want to be there. And you know, there's some agents that have that mindset.
• 50:53
  Yes. So I preface it by saying that this is only useful if you're willing to share. And if
• 51:00
  you're not willing to share, then you may not be a good fit for the group. So the first thing
• 51:04
  that we say is you have to be willing to share and you have to be willing to be a part of the
• 51:10
  dialogue and the discussion. And I tell them, there's no secrets here. So we need to know it's a
• 51:17
  safe place. You know, I tell them, we're not talking commissions. We're not talking comp structures
• 51:21
  within your offices. We're not talking splits. We're just talking very specific topics that's
• 51:28
  going to help you improve as a person and in your business. And I have, I've had some that come
• 51:34
  and they're very quiet and they don't, they're not really a part of it as much as I was hoping.
• 51:39
  And they may just may not be a part of the next time when I have one. But for the most part,
• 51:43
  everybody knows going in. Do you have a criteria for who you're going to invite?
• 51:48
  Well, I mean, the ones that I invite, I generally speaking, have a relationship with. So I tell
• 51:53
  them that I highly respect the way that they do business. And I feel like they can add a ton of
• 51:59
  value to the other people that's within the business as well. And people look to them as a resource
• 52:05
  and I do as well. So I think number one, it's ones I've already got connections with. The other one
• 52:10
  is people that are up and coming. So I try to connect a few up and comers into the group because
• 52:16
  I feel like they see value right away. They're thinking, yeah, I'll be a part of this. I just want to
• 52:20
  learn. And so that's always another part of it that that helps as well.
• 52:25
  How long does your mastermind run? I try to keep it to no more than an hour and a half.
• 52:30
  An hour and a half. You're providing some some beverages, light snacks, whatever.
• 52:34
  Yeah, I normally just have, I tell you truth, normally they don't have this next. They're just
• 52:38
  right into it. But we'll have just cookies and water and coffee, things like that.
• 52:42
  Okay, cool. Very nice. Love that idea. More people should be doing that. Again, it's a relationship
• 52:47
  builder, you know, and who doesn't love their ego stroked? You know, so that also feeds into that
• 52:53
  whole psychology play. All right, man, listen, I know you're busy. You got a lot of stuff to do.
• 52:58
  And this has been a great crash course in becoming a digital mayor in Missyanna. I love it. I love
• 53:04
  it. Unfortunately, you know, I'm not going to be wearing the Nordadame colors come, you know,
• 53:10
  what is this? Day after Christmas, two days after Christmas? Yes. But anyway,
• 53:17
  I love the town, love the area. I used to go there years ago, one of my cousins all went to
• 53:20
  Nordadame. So there was a little bit of that affiliation there. But, you know, listen, man,
• 53:25
  how do you want people to reach out to you? I'm going to put links to everything. But what's the
• 53:28
  best place? Is it your Facebook, Missyanna page or where you want to send them? Yeah, they can
• 53:31
  come in if they want to message me on the Missyanna Living TV on Facebook. You can go to my
• 53:36
  business page, Jonathan McKinnis, Home Arch home mortgage, my personal pages out there on Facebook
• 53:40
  as well as easy connect on my Instagram as well. You can also, well, I'd say if they want
• 53:47
  if anyone needed to email me, they can certainly do that, which is Jay McKinnis at OneHallmark.com.
• 53:52
  Other than that, find my podcast, Purpose and Performance podcast on Podbean iTunes,
• 53:57
  Google Play. Yeah, we'll put it all in there as well. And thank you for being such a willing
• 54:01
  person to share within within this industry. That's definitely one thing that shows up about you
• 54:05
  is your contributor and giver and have an abundance mindset. So we appreciate that.
• 54:10
  Thank you. Appreciate it. And listeners, we appreciate you. You know that. So if you like this
• 54:14
  episode or another one, hey, let us know. Leave us a review and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 54:41
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