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Always in Flow? · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
0:03
The three of us,
0:05
Yulia,
0:05
Polina,
0:06
and Irina,
0:07
are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
0:12
Join us as we experiment,
0:15
test our diverse hypotheses,
0:17
and have fun in the process.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Will we find an answer?
0:23
SPEAKER_02: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
0:30
We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
0:35
conversation itself
0:36
SPEAKER_02: becomes a group flow experience.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Go beyond the intellectual information.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Listen with your whole body.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
1:05
Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
1:11
body,
1:12
and energy flow together.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this new episode of Life & Flow podcast.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Here we are Jan, Paulina, Julia, and Irina.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: And...
1:29
SPEAKER_01: I,
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Irina,
1:29
SPEAKER_01: will be steering the flow today,
1:33
and today we will be discussing the difference between life and
1:42
flow and flow and
1:43
SPEAKER_01: life.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: A little bit of background for our listeners, you might have noticed that
1:52
SPEAKER_01: In our introduction to the podcast,
1:55
SPEAKER_01: we say that we are exploring what life and flow and flow in life is.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And while we were working on the launch or the project,
2:10
we actually discussed a lot whether we want to state just that
2:17
we're exploring what
2:19
SPEAKER_01: life and flow is or whether we want to live
2:23
both terms life and flow and flow and life and we felt that for
2:28
us it is important
2:30
to emphasize the distinction between the two and that that this
2:41
distinction is
2:43
SPEAKER_01: significant somehow so today we want to explore what is this difference
2:54
SPEAKER_01: What is it about?
2:57
SPEAKER_01: And as usual,
2:59
we will start our discussion with a little game that will help
3:07
us to enter this
3:13
SPEAKER_01: group flow and become aware of what is emerging at every moment.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So I will remind each of us,
3:25
SPEAKER_01: for the three of us,
3:26
SPEAKER_01: the rules of the game,
3:28
SPEAKER_01: but I also will explain to the listeners what the game consists of,
3:35
SPEAKER_01: because we want you not just to listen passively to what we are saying,
3:44
SPEAKER_01: but also try to play with us.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: I will say a word, which I will pronounce in several minutes.
4:02
And let us share some stories that come to each of us in
4:13
association with the word.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: When each of us shares a story,
4:18
let's focus on the specific detail or details of your sensorial
4:23
experience.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And while we are listening to the stories of the others,
4:28
let's also focus on the somatic experience that what emerges
4:35
for each of us in the
4:36
SPEAKER_01: body,
4:36
SPEAKER_01: through the body,
4:38
SPEAKER_01: in resonance to what we're hearing.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: So when the next one is sharing her story,
4:44
we may just share what we have experienced somatically while we
4:50
were listening to
4:50
SPEAKER_01: the previous story.
4:53
Or we can share the news story,
4:55
what comes to us,
4:57
in resonance to what we have heard.
5:01
And I think we will try to do a couple of rounds,
5:07
but let's see how we go with time.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And also, I think we will not define the water.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's see if we can connect.
5:22
How can we flow just trying to feel when it is in turn to speak
5:29
for each of us?
5:35
SPEAKER_01: And to the listeners,
5:36
the invitation is also focus on your somatic experience while
5:42
you listen to each
5:43
story and see what comes to your mind as the response to the
5:48
somatic experience.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And if you want to,
5:51
you may share your stories that come to you in association with
5:55
all this Shred
5:56
SPEAKER_01: experience later in the comments,
6:02
SPEAKER_01: wherever you will be listening this episode.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so are we ready for the word?
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Now, like I have several words prepared.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Now let me tune in to the field to feel more important.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: What is the word that wants to be played with?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: I think we will go with synchronicity.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Who wants to start?
6:51
Well,
6:51
I have a story that's about the first episode,
6:57
conscious episode of synchronicity.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to tell the story.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know yet how it's related to flow.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, it is related to flow.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: But anyway,
7:08
it happened after a psilocybin magic mushroom ceremony that I
7:15
had for the first
7:15
SPEAKER_01: time in the Netherlands around
7:19
five years ago i think so i was in a um i guess i was in a very
7:23
special and very
7:25
sensitive state where i was making so many discoveries about
7:30
things that were
7:31
always there but i was just had been filtering them out i guess
7:37
and one of the
7:38
things that happened is that um when i came home i felt an
7:44
impulse to write a
7:46
SPEAKER_01: message to
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Someone who I hadn't seen for a long, long time.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And she lives in the States.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: So I wrote a message to her and the next thing I know,
7:59
she's writing me back and she says that she's in Moscow and her
8:03
husband passed and
8:07
SPEAKER_01: that she's not seeing anyone,
8:09
but she really would love it if I were to come and visit her
8:14
outside of Moscow.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: That was such a wow experience to me.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like, wow, this was totally orchestrated.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: I had not been writing to her for a long time.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Neither did she.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: And then here we are, finally, together.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: So that gave me a very good taste of what synchronicity is.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: And at that point,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really concern myself much with flow,
8:50
SPEAKER_01: or I didn't,
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: flow was not a word that I would use.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
8:57
SPEAKER_01: but I mean,
8:59
SPEAKER_01: in the retrospect,
9:01
SPEAKER_01: there was flow,
9:02
SPEAKER_01: because I felt an impulse,
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I followed it,
9:05
SPEAKER_01: and then there was a response that was waiting kind of to happen.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: We will see what law has to do with all of this.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: If it has to do anything.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Just a clarification.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: So you were in Moscow at that moment.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: I came back from the Netherlands to Moscow.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: I had a funny reaction to your story.
9:35
So when you said this word that I'm not able to pronounce,
9:41
the mushroom word,
9:43
psilocybin.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: That one.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Psilocybin, okay.
9:51
So,
9:52
like,
9:52
I have this really no,
9:57
like,
9:59
like,
9:59
this altered state of consciousness.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: This was fascinating for me.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: It was very interesting.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And then at a certain point,
10:09
SPEAKER_01: actually,
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I already don't remember what you were saying,
10:13
SPEAKER_01: but I have this
10:18
sensation of you like when you know that something you know
10:23
when this mystical
10:24
coincidence happens to you and you you feel it in the body like
10:28
no no they call it
10:32
SPEAKER_01: i don't remember so like i have this experience overall just sorry
10:39
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't my curious reaction.
10:42
I also had that happen when you said that she responded and
10:46
that her husband died.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: At that point, it was like this whole energetic thing.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like a soft, thin, energetic resonance to it.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: There was weight to it.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: And it went all the way down.
11:04
and is that what you were describing it because i really it
11:08
really was like like
11:09
all of my yeah it's turned on and it was like yeah it has the
11:13
word but i don't know
11:14
what is the word and well like i know the word but i just don't
11:18
it doesn't come to
11:19
my mind at this moment yeah but i also really i had a reaction
11:27
there was some kind
11:27
SPEAKER_02: of like sense of recognition when you said you'll um
11:31
SPEAKER_02: there was an impulse, and then there was a reaction in the field.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: And that it was orchestrated, but so interesting that
11:41
SPEAKER_02: If you haven't had not done psilocybin,
11:44
I don't know if you would have been open enough to receive that
11:46
impulse from the
11:47
SPEAKER_02: field.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: And then reach out and maybe the I wonder if the openness or whatever.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what your experience was after psilocybin,
11:57
but something about that experience kind of opened you up and
12:00
the field was able
12:01
SPEAKER_02: to.
12:02
kind of have this kind of interactive thing with you right um
12:08
that was cool and it
12:10
does bring up the question for me okay flow is flow about
12:17
impulse with the reaction
12:19
SPEAKER_02: is that's part of like i think the mechanism um so yeah cool
12:25
SPEAKER_01: We will go back to the questions just in several minutes.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So far, let's focus on the stories.
12:35
What comes to me when I think about synchronicity and it's
12:39
somewhat similar to the
12:41
SPEAKER_01: experience you Yulia shared.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not like one specific case, but just it happens quite often.
12:55
when I'm thinking about like a question that I really need to
13:03
answer or something
13:04
SPEAKER_01: worries me or I have a doubt,
13:09
I have some sort of this existential question I need to resolve
13:14
or there is
13:16
SPEAKER_01: something inside me that needs to be actualized.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden,
13:23
SPEAKER_01: I start seeing like the signs everywhere related to this question.
13:32
Like I open the book and I read like a stupid fantasy book and
13:37
really stupid story.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Like the characters are talking about this topic.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And,
13:44
SPEAKER_01: uh,
13:45
SPEAKER_01: in Instagram and all social media,
13:48
SPEAKER_01: all of the sudden,
13:49
like the videos are popping up regarding this topic and you
13:55
hear the conversation
13:56
SPEAKER_01: and someone says something that like somehow is related to it.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And it provokes in me like an overall reaction of being in all
14:14
SPEAKER_01: with all of this interconnectedness, like how it all is coming together.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that you said, go ahead, Yul.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go ahead.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I love that you mentioned the word interconnectedness.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: And also,
14:36
as I was tuning into how you were describing your experience of
14:41
synchronicity,
14:42
SPEAKER_02: I was considering,
14:46
SPEAKER_02: okay,
14:47
so it's both that my field and my brain is primed for a certain
14:53
type of pattern
14:55
SPEAKER_02: recognition,
14:56
SPEAKER_02: but also...
14:58
It's the availability of that thing that I need or want to
15:03
recognize is actually
15:04
SPEAKER_02: available in the field.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And so how does that happen?
15:07
SPEAKER_02: Does it happen synchronistically or is it always available in the field?
15:12
SPEAKER_02: And it's just a matter of us like being able to be tuned together.
15:18
in or like for us for us to be open to the field in ways that
15:23
we can pick up what
15:24
we need in that moment but also the interconnectedness of that
15:28
mechanism not just
15:29
with people but like that that mechanism of us and the field
15:34
and the things that
15:35
can come together it's a very interesting yeah another story
15:41
came to mind that's
15:42
SPEAKER_01: very recent and so as um
15:47
And,
15:47
Pauline,
15:47
you're saying that this is one of the aspects of certainly
15:52
filtering.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And because when we give our focus to something,
15:57
SPEAKER_01: then we're more likely to recognize something,
16:01
SPEAKER_01: be it a pattern or maybe be it a plant,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: because my story is about a plant.
16:07
And I've had this kind of an obsession with a plant,
16:13
with a tree that's called elder tree.
16:16
And elder tree,
16:17
I'm going to say in Russian,
16:20
in case girls don't know the tree.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's kind of a sacred tree in the Germanic history.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: It's called Mother Elder.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: And in the winter,
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I was already imagining how,
16:36
SPEAKER_01: oh,
16:36
SPEAKER_01: my God,
16:36
I'm going to collect some blossoms of the elder tree and then
16:43
the berries and do
16:44
SPEAKER_01: this and that with them.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: But where am I going to find them?
16:47
SPEAKER_01: It's probably very far from me.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: OK, I need the places.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And then one of the reasons,
16:53
one of the points of our work with that girl was actually to
16:57
look for elder trees.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, we found them at this field at the airport.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was so happy, but they were not, they're not blooming yet.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: And I come home and the next morning I'm going to this playground.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: That's like a hundred meters from our house.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of plants there, not only playground.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: I walk and I walk.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, shoot.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Elderberry.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, shoot.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Another one.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Elder tree.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Another elder.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: What?
17:36
I had been living here for three years and I was not able to
17:42
see those trees.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
17:45
SPEAKER_01: okay,
17:46
SPEAKER_01: it's not really a synchronicity,
17:49
SPEAKER_01: but to your point of is it always in the field?
17:54
SPEAKER_01: I think probably most of it is already in the field.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: But of course,
18:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:01
we cannot overwhelm ourselves by sensing lots of things or by
18:05
focusing on lots of
18:07
SPEAKER_01: things,
18:07
SPEAKER_01: right?
18:07
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, where do we put that filter?
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: And how do we put that filter anyway?
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Can I add to your story?
18:18
SPEAKER_02: It's the it's it's the other side of what you're describing.
18:22
So I actually went to a networking event and I made a
18:24
connection with someone that
18:26
I wasn't like I'm never sure anymore about what is supposed to
18:30
happen or like what
18:31
SPEAKER_02: I just go with it.
18:33
But after the event,
18:35
I just happened to walk down the street randomly and I ran into
18:41
her.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: And okay.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: And then a week later,
18:45
SPEAKER_02: I was at a restaurant totally in a different town,
18:51
SPEAKER_02: completely random,
18:53
SPEAKER_02: total random timing on when I decided to be leaving the restaurant.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: And exactly at that moment, I meet her in the exit again.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
19:05
SPEAKER_02: OK,
19:06
SPEAKER_02: so clearly the field,
19:08
something in the field is because I could have if I was just a
19:11
minute later that I
19:12
SPEAKER_02: left the restaurant,
19:13
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have run into her.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So it was like the field,
19:18
SPEAKER_02: for some reason,
19:19
SPEAKER_02: it was available in the field,
19:20
but also it couldn't have always been available in the field
19:24
because it literally
19:25
SPEAKER_02: required us physically to be in the space together.
19:28
And something in the field wanted us to actually really come
19:33
together in that moment.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So that's a synchronicity.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: That is an example of the pattern recognition being open, right?
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:41
But it's also an example of something being available in the
19:45
field in that specific
19:46
SPEAKER_02: moment,
19:47
SPEAKER_02: in that location that just could not,
19:49
SPEAKER_02: you know,
19:50
SPEAKER_02: like it wasn't like a random thing.
19:52
So,
19:52
yeah,
19:54
it's really interesting,
19:55
all these different elements that come to play.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Any kind of contacts?
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Are you now in some kind of contact?
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: And I'm staying in the flow of seeing, okay, like, what is this about?
20:12
SPEAKER_02: Because clearly something's here.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: I want you to hold to this photo reflection.
20:20
So like,
20:21
is it always in the field or are we conjuring it up by paying
20:26
attention?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, how does this interaction with the field happen?
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Because I think it will emerge later on in our discussion.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: And for sure...
20:43
SPEAKER_01: We will find this question, how is it related to the flow?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe not.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: We will see.
20:52
Definitely some questions have arised now during this sharing
20:59
that will require
21:00
SPEAKER_01: more and more episodes,
21:02
SPEAKER_01: as always.
21:04
such a complex topic so but for now before we move on to the
21:09
proper discussion and
21:12
I warn you I actually have a lot of questions definitely will
21:19
not be able to
21:20
discuss all of them but we will see like what comes up so like
21:27
before we move on to
21:29
SPEAKER_01: the discussion let us just take
21:33
moment to become aware of how we are at this moment so what is
21:38
coming up for you
21:39
now how are you feeling in terms of connection and openness and
21:46
flow everything is
21:51
SPEAKER_01: good does anyone needs to be shared i'm good to go okay well uh so
22:05
SPEAKER_01: I want us to go directly to the question,
22:10
SPEAKER_01: directly to the topic,
22:12
SPEAKER_01: but before we dive in,
22:15
I want to do a little recap of what we discussed regarding our
22:20
personal views on
22:21
SPEAKER_01: what flow is in the previous episode,
22:26
SPEAKER_01: so more specifically when we did the first episode for the
22:34
for the podcast,
22:35
we actually discussed how each of us is seeing what flow is.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: And so, I describe flow as being one with the experience.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And even in a certain point, I called it dancing with the experience.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: I like this metaphor very much.
22:57
We also talked about that flow state is a certain type of the
23:02
trance state.
23:04
also we can call it an altered state of consciousness in terms
23:10
of that it's
23:11
different from our normal state of consciousness of our
23:16
ordinary mode of the
23:18
SPEAKER_01: problem solving.
23:22
Yulia described flow primarily as navigating interconnectedness
23:31
and I also love this
23:34
SPEAKER_01: description very much.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And her main marker is the feeling of gratitude.
23:41
So she said that if she feels gratitude,
23:45
she knows that the flow is there.
23:49
And Polina,
23:50
and now I will need to navigate through interconnectedness of
23:57
my notes.
24:04
So,
24:08
it is interacting with energies within her and around her from
24:15
the sense of trust.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Trust in herself, in the energies, in the flow of life.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: And today, we will discuss what flow of life means, or maybe not.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And...
24:32
is this interacting happens from her being in her whole mind as
24:38
opposed to just
24:39
SPEAKER_01: being in her head.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: And it,
24:42
this being allows her to fold different perspectives in this
24:49
space of interacting
24:52
SPEAKER_01: with energies.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: So this is how we defined flow.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: So,
25:01
And now my question to you is,
25:04
okay,
25:04
if this is flow,
25:07
what life in flow means to you?
25:11
So I don't want us to focus right now on the differences
25:18
specifically between these
25:19
SPEAKER_01: two terms,
25:20
SPEAKER_01: the life and flow in life.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Let's focus first on life and flow.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: So how do you define and describe to yourself at this moment?
25:32
what life and flow is i think for me if i were to talk about
25:45
one thing and that is
25:48
SPEAKER_01: when you have to do something
25:55
SPEAKER_01: difficult,
25:56
SPEAKER_01: something that's not fun,
25:58
SPEAKER_01: maybe something that's not boring,
26:00
SPEAKER_01: maybe something that's not at all my idea of my strong points,
26:07
SPEAKER_01: or maybe I hate some of the tasks that I do need to do,
26:12
SPEAKER_01: especially at this very moment.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: It's just like not having a doubt about you
26:26
doing them it always used to be um for me that really important
26:35
things i would put
26:36
them off because they're difficult they're challenging and
26:39
maybe um they're
26:40
uncomfortable and okay i guess my stakes were not very high i
26:50
don't do it it like
26:51
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't work out um
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I can live with that.
26:57
So now I get this sense that actually the uncomfortableness of
27:05
these things,
27:07
SPEAKER_01: it has gone down or how challenging they seem.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: So it's... I don't know.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm actually sounding...
27:23
somewhat incoherent but yeah i think it's for me the flow in
27:28
life is tested in
27:29
difficult moments be it when you are doing something really not
27:34
fun um or maybe
27:35
when you're going through a challenging phase and knowing still
27:41
in like a bottom
27:43
let's say that this is all worth it so may i ask some
27:50
clarifying questions the
27:53
Key factor here is that there is a challenge or the key factor
27:59
is that you don't
28:00
SPEAKER_01: have a doubt that you need to deal with this challenge.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, life is a challenge, right?
28:10
SPEAKER_01: So couldn't deal without them.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: It's knowing that it's all worth it.
28:17
okay so it's really like more the feeling of even if it's the
28:21
challenge i know that
28:22
i need to be in this experience do i understand it right um say
28:30
it again uh i mean
28:33
SPEAKER_01: that okay let me ask a question so like
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Wait, can I interject for a sec?
28:40
SPEAKER_02: I think you were describing this process for you.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: It felt to me like you were describing how do I occupy...
28:51
SPEAKER_02: the states and the things that need to be done in life,
28:56
like the occupation of the things as you're going along and the
29:02
discomfort level
29:03
that you've been able to kind of moderate and now challenges
29:07
are less challenging.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And so the way you're occupying those pockets is easier and different.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Is that what you were describing?
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Because that's what I was experiencing as you were
29:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: I guess I'm occupying challenges in a different way.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: That's one way to put it.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: They just feel more coherent.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Challenges feel more coherent somehow.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, this challenge belongs.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: I like this challenging feels more coherent.
29:52
challenges so more coherent and it feels that they belong yeah
29:57
i love the word
29:58
belong yeah because there's a sense of invitation and welcoming
30:06
what's coming
30:08
rather than the push from it which creates more of a challenge
30:12
in the challenge
30:12
SPEAKER_02: right
30:14
SPEAKER_02: So that's almost like you're describing flow within the thing,
30:18
SPEAKER_02: you know,
30:18
SPEAKER_02: like a different flow with challenge.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: But still, can I ask another clarifying question?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Do you say that,
30:31
SPEAKER_01: because you started talking about the challenges,
30:34
so do you say that the challenges is the necessary marker for
30:38
the life and flow?
30:39
It's just the difference how you live through challenges with
30:47
feeling of coherency
30:48
or the lack of it that marks for you whether you are living in
30:53
flow or not.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: I think challenges is totally...
31:00
SPEAKER_01: the part of life and flow for any life.
31:05
I think challenges is just by design there or else you wouldn't
31:13
be able to
31:15
SPEAKER_01: experience ecstasy of not having challenges,
31:22
SPEAKER_01: of being in peace or something like that.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: So...
31:28
but it's just the relationship with the challenges that's
31:32
that's different for me
31:34
and it can be that you know you still of course do and go over
31:40
the challenges and
31:42
be here right but this is the racial relationship is uh that
31:46
i'm talking about is
31:47
SPEAKER_01: different it's not like i'm a hero overcoming a challenge it's like
31:54
it in your words it's like i'm dancing with a challenge
31:57
respectfully yeah um yeah
32:00
and um dancing with challenges is actually one of the
32:05
definition of creativity okay
32:09
SPEAKER_01: but still
32:17
SPEAKER_01: To make it clear,
32:18
I totally agree that challenges are the part of life and
32:22
actually goes in hand with
32:26
SPEAKER_01: one of the questions on my list.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Let's see if we get to that.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: But we're discussing it.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: But still, if you don't have challenges, can you live and flow?
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, are you asking, you're asking Yulia?
32:45
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm asking Yulia.
32:47
You're just,
32:48
I just want to clarify for,
32:50
for myself,
32:51
her vision of what life on flow is.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: In, in my opinion, that you could not live in flow without challenges.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like I wanted, I wanted to have it clear for me.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
33:13
interesting let's see felina what is your reason i i'm still
33:23
with uh with julia's
33:24
description i'm my my being is trying to to to tune into if
33:31
what happens if we
33:32
reframe challenge as an opportunity an opportunity to stretch
33:38
is it still a
33:39
SPEAKER_02: challenge
33:41
SPEAKER_02: So it has like a different quality energetically to it.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: It still requires a stretch.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: But if it's not a challenge per se,
33:49
it's instead an opportunity for a different perspective or a
33:54
different set of like
33:56
SPEAKER_02: internal resources or a different action.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Does it still feel like a challenge per se?
34:05
SPEAKER_02: There's no answer.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm just sitting with this right now.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: I guess it also depends on your relationship with the word itself.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's exactly.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: That was my question.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Pauline, why would you try to go around challenges?
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Why would I want to reframe challenge?
34:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Because challenge for me has a little bit of a negative connotation.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, not always, just sometimes.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: I think from conditioning, challenge...
34:41
SPEAKER_02: you know,
34:41
SPEAKER_02: means like you need to,
34:43
it's something maybe negative or unpleasant or uncomfortable
34:47
and you have to
34:47
SPEAKER_02: overcome it.
34:49
And when I think about a challenge in terms of an opportunity,
34:54
then that feels better.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: That process feels better.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: And the way I interact with the energy feels better in my system.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: But it depends on what state I'm in.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes challenge feels better.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: It's already kind of reflected differently.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes challenge is like,
35:14
SPEAKER_02: let's have a different relationship with this thing that the challenge is
35:18
SPEAKER_02: describing.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
35:21
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
35:22
SPEAKER_01: It makes sense,
35:23
SPEAKER_01: but it's very curious because in creative thinking,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: we actually tend to teach people to reframe the words
35:34
problem into the word challenge meaning that you're like in
35:40
this context it is
35:42
challenge the word challenge is seen as more positive and i
35:47
would want to reframe
35:49
it further by saying what's the opportunity here yeah well that
35:53
is true but that's
35:55
SPEAKER_01: the whole point you're like that the challenge is like the breach to the
36:00
SPEAKER_01: opportunity when you solve the challenge
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:03
I think the words are meant to inspire like a response of the
36:10
nervous system to the
36:11
SPEAKER_02: thing in the field or the thing in us.
36:14
And I think maybe it's for us each to figure out what is the
36:18
thing that's going to
36:19
SPEAKER_02: make it the most important.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: flowy experience in raising up to the occasion for that thing.
36:27
For me,
36:27
I think right now,
36:28
I'm just generally in a space of like,
36:30
what's the invitation here?
36:32
SPEAKER_02: What's the opportunity?
36:33
And I'm not as much engaging with like that energetic thing
36:39
that I pick up in the
36:39
word challenge because I've spent so many years with that kind
36:44
of frequency around
36:45
SPEAKER_02: this that I no longer want to engage with it in that way.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: I want to engage with it in a more
36:53
SPEAKER_02: just inspiring kind of way, if that makes sense.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: It does make sense.
36:57
But so what is your description of light and flow at this
37:02
moment for yourself?
37:04
Yeah,
37:05
I think life and flow is...
37:09
It's kind of what Yulia was describing.
37:11
For me,
37:11
it's how do I occupy the different aspects and containers of
37:18
life on a daily basis?
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, how am I meeting...
37:24
what's available in me and the field with a sense of acceptance
37:28
and trust?
37:30
Or am I having like a reaction to the things that are coming up
37:35
because I'm judging
37:35
SPEAKER_02: them or I'm judging myself or whatever?
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, or I'm resisting, like, am I in the space of what's here for me?
37:44
And how do I occupy this in the,
37:47
you know,
37:47
kind of best,
37:48
highest or easiest or fun?
37:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like the questions I ask myself now are different.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do I have more fun with this is a question I never used to ask.
37:56
And that helps me to have a sense of life being more in flow
38:01
than the way I used to
38:03
SPEAKER_02: occupy these different spaces.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: So, uh,
38:09
let me try to rephrase it to understand it right that like if
38:13
you are able to leave
38:17
each experience from a space of acceptance and trust that that
38:25
means that you are
38:26
SPEAKER_01: living this experience in flow to understand it right
38:31
SPEAKER_02: It's more like I'm allowing life to be in the energy of flow.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: And I am occupying life differently.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: Differently from what?
38:49
SPEAKER_02: Differently from the way I used to.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: And what was it?
38:55
It was more from a perspective and energetic response of my
39:00
nervous system of like
39:02
SPEAKER_02: more resistance or judgment,
39:05
SPEAKER_02: right?
39:05
Or like not wanting certain things or being annoyed or upset
39:08
that certain things
39:09
SPEAKER_02: are the way they are versus now,
39:12
SPEAKER_02: you know,
39:13
SPEAKER_02: the question I'm asking as I'm going through these things is more like,
39:17
SPEAKER_02: okay,
39:17
SPEAKER_02: how do I do this thing differently?
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Or how do I create more...
39:23
SPEAKER_02: slow within this life that is more in flow,
39:28
how do I occupy these different containers and these different
39:31
things from a
39:33
different question and stance and perspective that makes it
39:36
more enjoyable,
39:38
SPEAKER_02: pleasant,
39:39
SPEAKER_02: or easier,
39:39
SPEAKER_02: just easier?
39:42
SPEAKER_02: But also,
39:42
SPEAKER_02: I have to say,
39:44
SPEAKER_02: we are having this conversation already several episodes later,
39:48
SPEAKER_02: and I've already arrived,
39:50
SPEAKER_02: I think,
39:51
at a different place when it comes to this whole life and flow
39:56
flow in life than I
39:57
SPEAKER_02: was when we started considering it in the beginning.
40:00
So there's a trajectory here that I can't even tune into what I
40:08
used to define it as.
40:10
that's okay i think that's the whole point of the project for
40:14
us you know like to
40:16
let all our understanding of everything relating to flow evolve
40:21
and so that is why
40:23
i'm listening justin curious about your how you describe it at
40:28
this moment for
40:28
yourself it's like how do i meet the the aspects of life from
40:35
one to the next to
40:37
SPEAKER_02: the next
40:38
SPEAKER_01: And I take it so that there are basically the two modes,
40:41
SPEAKER_01: the mode of judging and fighting and resistance.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: So if these aspects are not there, then that means that you are in flow.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Well,
40:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
40:54
there's also the neutral state when you don't necessarily have
40:57
any sense or
40:58
SPEAKER_02: feeling.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: You're kind of just on autopilot.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: And that is not necessarily, I feel like, life and flow autopilot.
41:07
kind of sleeping through it,
41:10
like when there isn't a consciousness and awareness piece to
41:13
it.
41:16
Maybe there's still flow because you're not like mentally
41:19
engaging,
41:21
but I don't know.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if life is in flow if I'm on autopilot.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: There is a flow there still because things are still happening,
41:29
SPEAKER_02: but I don't know that I would describe that as life and flow.
41:31
So maybe for me,
41:33
life and flow means there is a consciousness and awareness
41:36
piece.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking I'm trying to read everything together.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: Looking at my questions because I'm somehow,
42:00
SPEAKER_01: um,
42:05
SPEAKER_01: I think my definition at the moment,
42:09
SPEAKER_01: it,
42:12
SPEAKER_01: it is somehow more resonant.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't want to create comparisons.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's somehow resonant with what Paulina describes,
42:25
SPEAKER_01: although I use totally different words.
42:31
It always comes to me,
42:33
the metaphor of surfing,
42:37
when I'm trying to describe it.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's like surfing live, really, yeah...
42:48
trying to tune in again using polina's words but from the other
42:56
episode from her
42:57
description of flow itself just tuning in into the energies
43:03
like in the field
43:04
around myself and the circumstances and within me and like
43:12
trying to feel at each
43:14
SPEAKER_01: moment
43:15
SPEAKER_01: So where do these energies want to take me?
43:20
SPEAKER_01: As if they had urgency, but this is a totally different discussion.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it's a big one.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: And so it's sort of like a mixture between letting go and...
43:45
Yeah,
43:45
just trying to feel and tuning into what is the opportunity for
43:52
me in each moment.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: What does want to emerge?
43:56
SPEAKER_01: What does want to happen?
43:59
SPEAKER_01: What does everything want me to manifest at each moment?
44:08
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, how I could...
44:18
Come flow together with it and to steer all this current to in
44:34
the direction that I
44:36
SPEAKER_01: feel I want to go.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: So to me, your analogy with the
44:48
surfing yeah also the question about challenging because it got
44:53
me thinking like
44:54
what's my relationship with challenges so why did I start with
44:58
challenges answering
44:59
this question okay surfing it always you know you always go up
45:07
and down so the wave
45:09
SPEAKER_01: inevitably goes down and as to the challenging
45:15
challenges i think that a big reason behind the state that i'm
45:24
in right now that my
45:26
life is in flow and has been in flow and it's a relatively new
45:31
experience and i'll
45:33
SPEAKER_01: be 50 next year and this year was just so different
45:40
SPEAKER_01: There were lots of things that didn't work out.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: There were lots of times when I felt like, well, hit a bottom, let's say.
45:52
There were actually also lots of times where physically I was
45:57
so stretched,
45:59
SPEAKER_01: like during those wilderness expeditions and also the survival tasks.
46:11
And now I'm thinking that actually those were the moments,
46:16
especially the physical stretching.
46:19
It's like the stretching of your human capacities that brought
46:25
one of the most
46:26
SPEAKER_01: beautiful moments of life and flow.
46:30
It's as if for me,
46:33
I would say,
46:35
like remembering what being human is or what capacities I was
46:41
SPEAKER_01: I was born with and what was it before the design.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's also life and flow because not only am I in flow with whatever,
46:56
SPEAKER_01: like a sense of purpose or something that you could probably ascribe
47:01
SPEAKER_01: To me,
47:02
SPEAKER_01: although it's also,
47:03
SPEAKER_01: of course,
47:04
SPEAKER_01: all interconnected,
47:05
SPEAKER_01: so it also wants to flow through you,
47:07
SPEAKER_01: another story.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: But it's as if I'm also in sync with my biological design,
47:17
SPEAKER_01: with my life on this planet design,
47:25
SPEAKER_01: lots of those things.
47:30
and being and challenges is such a part it's like life and
47:38
death cycle that you can
47:40
see now the spring blossoms they're there today and then
47:47
they're not there tomorrow
47:49
and when they live they live like but then they go down and
47:54
then they become part
47:55
SPEAKER_01: of soil and then instead of them there is fruit and blah blah blah
48:00
SPEAKER_01: So also this is part of.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
48:05
SPEAKER_02: You just gave a different frame.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: And as I was tuning into what you were describing,
48:09
the word challenge actually made perfect sense when it comes to
48:14
like the physical
48:15
SPEAKER_02: reality,
48:15
SPEAKER_02: which you're so good with engaging with.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: Like that's like your, I feel like sweet spot.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: And as you were describing that story,
48:23
SPEAKER_02: I was like,
48:24
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
48:25
SPEAKER_02: that's the physical ability and the elements of nature.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
48:30
that does feel like an actual challenge for the system to do it
48:36
and to embody it
48:38
SPEAKER_02: and to figure things out and to survive.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: Not in a bad way, but like...
48:43
you know you know the survive thrive in in this physical
48:47
challenge of the thing and
48:49
and yeah that that totally makes sense thank you for bringing
48:52
that in okay that
48:54
landed and it actually resonates with one of the questions that
48:59
i had in my list uh
49:03
SPEAKER_01: whether that's
49:05
life and flow means that everything comes to you easy and
49:10
everything happens on its
49:12
own just like in synchronicity just like you just let it go and
49:20
everything will
49:21
happen as art of magic and in this sense i do resonate with
49:29
your this relationship
49:31
SPEAKER_01: with the challenges that you will describe because
49:35
SPEAKER_01: And that has also,
49:40
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:41
SPEAKER_01: have always been my feeling that,
49:44
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:44
SPEAKER_01: like,
49:44
SPEAKER_01: it's not just,
49:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:46
SPEAKER_01: like,
49:46
SPEAKER_01: okay,
49:47
SPEAKER_01: I will let flow in,
49:49
SPEAKER_01: like,
49:49
SPEAKER_01: I will let go with everything that happens and everything,
49:52
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:53
SPEAKER_01: like,
49:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm in flow when everything comes easy,
49:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:56
SPEAKER_01: challenges are a part of life.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: And this is how our growth is.
50:05
not only our growth we're just like this is how life grows who
50:13
who exerting an
50:14
effort and it's exactly how polina described like what space i
50:25
occupy like by
50:26
SPEAKER_01: living in each experience like from this point of no you're like
50:34
I'm judging and resisting to it or wanting to steer it to what
50:40
I want or just,
50:41
SPEAKER_01: okay,
50:41
SPEAKER_01: what is it for me?
50:43
SPEAKER_01: How I can live it?
50:46
SPEAKER_01: What does it mean?
50:48
SPEAKER_01: What is the opportunity here?
50:51
Oh,
50:51
but also,
50:52
as you were describing this,
50:53
Ir,
50:53
I just had this really cool image.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: First time ever,
50:56
SPEAKER_02: thanks to Yula,
50:58
SPEAKER_02: and the whole trees and stuff that she's bringing into the field.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: I just had this image of a tree growing.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: And there's the life and flow for the tree,
51:09
SPEAKER_02: meaning like all the elements that are available for the tree to grow.
51:13
But then the job of the tree is to have flow within to be able
51:18
to kind of interact
51:19
SPEAKER_02: with the elements that are available,
51:21
SPEAKER_02: like the sun,
51:21
SPEAKER_02: right,
51:22
SPEAKER_02: the water,
51:23
SPEAKER_02: in order to
51:23
SPEAKER_02: to grow into whatever direction it can.
51:26
So it's like this interaction between the life that is in flow
51:29
naturally,
51:30
right?
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Like the elements are available,
51:31
SPEAKER_02: the DNA is available,
51:32
SPEAKER_02: but then the tree has to,
51:34
SPEAKER_02: I think,
51:35
find ways to interact with those elements in order to grow in
51:40
whatever direction it
51:40
SPEAKER_02: can.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: And that would be like the flow it's finding within the life and flow.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
51:49
SPEAKER_01: I think it does.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: There is a reason why we have a tree in our logo.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: I know.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Interestingly,
52:01
SPEAKER_01: the tree does usually,
52:03
SPEAKER_01: of course,
52:03
grow into the space that's available to maximize the sun and
52:09
photosynthesis.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: But also, it's this shape.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: Even if the tree is forced, let's say, to temporarily change the shape,
52:22
whether because of the light or because of the wind or any
52:25
other conditions,
52:26
SPEAKER_01: then it's from a different angle,
52:32
SPEAKER_01: it again starts to go straight,
52:36
SPEAKER_01: straighten up.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's this will, maybe, like will of life.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it's also all those things like
52:49
SPEAKER_01: sacred geometry,
52:51
SPEAKER_01: Fibonacci sequence,
52:52
SPEAKER_01: and all those ratios that are universal,
52:56
SPEAKER_01: be it for a tree,
52:59
SPEAKER_01: for a body,
52:59
SPEAKER_01: for the solar system,
53:03
SPEAKER_01: they all play out.
53:05
So the tree is maximizing a lot of things,
53:07
but it's...
53:12
Still maximizing around...
53:14
Yeah,
53:15
sorry.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: Still maximizing around the coding, yeah?
53:20
hi i love that you mentioned the will of life because it's
53:26
actually uh one of my
53:28
next questions so what about free will do we exercise our free
53:34
will when we live in
53:36
flow i know that the free will is a big controversial topic but
53:45
just like briefly
53:48
what is your take on the topic i'm not at all exercising my
53:53
free will at all no so
53:56
you are just like what you're being an agent or a greater
54:02
forces oh i guess i'm
54:05
being one of the agents creating agents but i'm very trying to
54:14
be some of the best
54:17
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
54:17
SPEAKER_01: decisions that I made or insights that I had always came when I,
54:24
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
54:26
SPEAKER_01: surrounded.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, so what is it?
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember a cool episode three weeks ago.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: I was in the forest and then...
54:43
SPEAKER_01: I come and I just say, okay, now I'm just wondering.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't have a goal.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm following whatever calls me.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: And what called me was those fern shoots,
54:58
SPEAKER_01: you know,
54:58
SPEAKER_01: like those...
55:03
SPEAKER_01: When they're young shoots,
55:05
SPEAKER_01: they look like aliens.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: They're covered with hair.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: They have a very interesting shape.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: And they lured me in and I was starting to take pictures.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, aliens.
55:20
SPEAKER_01: And then I almost stumbled on the root of a tree.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: And when I did this, oh, this is the place I needed to be in.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: And I sat down by the tree and it felt like
55:36
I was at home and then I lied down and I was lying there for 40
55:41
minutes or longer.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: And it was just total bliss.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I got answers to questions.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: I got some ideas.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: But definitely, it pulled me in.
56:03
So what was coming up for me as you were describing that you're
56:10
not exercising free
56:11
SPEAKER_02: will,
56:11
SPEAKER_02: and then you said,
56:13
SPEAKER_02: I just let go and I just surrender.
56:16
SPEAKER_02: To me, that is exercising your will.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: You're allowing yourself to surrender.
56:23
That is your will allowing yourself to surrender to the flow or
56:28
the life and flow
56:29
SPEAKER_02: or the flow element,
56:31
SPEAKER_02: whatever is available in the field.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: To me, that is exercising your will.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: Maybe, yes.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Well,
56:42
SPEAKER_01: certainly,
56:43
SPEAKER_01: at a certain point,
56:45
SPEAKER_01: it does require deliberate effort,
56:48
SPEAKER_01: at least to make a decision to surrender.
56:53
But when you surrender,
56:56
exactly,
56:57
I think you surrender your free will to...
57:01
SPEAKER_01: to the process,
57:01
SPEAKER_01: to the stage,
57:02
SPEAKER_01: to the greater force or whatever,
57:05
SPEAKER_01: like,
57:06
SPEAKER_01: what you're surrendering to.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: So what is your take on free will, Perlina, in the life and flow?
57:18
Apart from,
57:18
so like,
57:20
you said that it's exercising the free will to decide to
57:23
surrender,
57:24
right?
57:25
I think my choice to be aware and conscious of what is
57:32
available in the field and
57:34
SPEAKER_02: then following the
57:36
SPEAKER_02: that surrender mechanism and the trust of just going with it.
57:42
SPEAKER_02: Even if my men,
57:44
SPEAKER_02: like my brain might have other opinions or,
57:47
or the other things that show up right in the experience may
57:51
have other opinions
57:52
SPEAKER_02: and,
57:52
SPEAKER_02: and maybe want to actually exert more will,
57:56
SPEAKER_02: you know,
57:56
SPEAKER_02: that kind of the judge self,
57:58
SPEAKER_02: the,
57:58
SPEAKER_02: the controlling patterns,
58:00
SPEAKER_02: like those,
58:01
SPEAKER_02: those aspects of us,
58:02
SPEAKER_02: right.
58:03
They always have their own opinions on things that are coming
58:05
up,
58:05
but like,
58:08
holding space for them and yet still surrendering to the
58:12
greater flow and the
58:14
SPEAKER_02: greater pool is I,
58:21
SPEAKER_02: for me,
58:22
SPEAKER_02: an exercise of having,
58:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
58:24
SPEAKER_02: will having just like,
58:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm making that decision.
58:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm doing the shift into whatever it is that I'm following.
58:31
SPEAKER_02: Um,
58:32
SPEAKER_02: It's like, I feel like it's actually a very co-creative process.
58:36
SPEAKER_02: I could easily say, I'm not going to be in this law.
58:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to follow the pool.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm not,
58:41
SPEAKER_02: you know,
58:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm just,
58:42
I'm going to push through and do my own thing because I've
58:46
decided this is what I
58:47
SPEAKER_02: want or this is what I need in the moment instead of like the surrender,
58:51
which requires me to make a choice that I'm going to surrender
58:55
to this experience
59:00
SPEAKER_01: and continue.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: Like it's a, it's,
59:03
stay in it is also yeah exercising my will like to me that's
59:08
still i'm still part
59:09
of that decision and that experience it's curious you're like i
59:18
do to certainly
59:21
SPEAKER_01: agree i agree with both of you it's curious that the word for creation
59:30
SPEAKER_01: was pronounced more than once by both of you.
59:36
SPEAKER_01: And I do agree with this word as the description of my concept of life.
59:48
SPEAKER_01: To me, it is also a co-creation.
59:53
SPEAKER_01: But I also feel that any process of co-creation,
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: it is like this flow,
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: like in any creative process,
1:00:12
SPEAKER_01: any creativity is always the flow between the polarities.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_01: So it is the flow between the surrender and exercising my will.
1:00:24
Because if I'm co-creating,
1:00:29
so that means that I'm still creating something.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: And this creation is an exercise of my will.
1:00:39
It's just I'm doing it together with everything else that is
1:00:46
participating with me
1:00:48
SPEAKER_01: in the process.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: And this everything else is life.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: But since I began this journey of exploration of life and flow,
1:01:04
I have been constantly oscillating on this topic between am I
1:01:13
totally surrendering
1:01:14
SPEAKER_01: or no,
1:01:15
SPEAKER_01: no,
1:01:15
SPEAKER_01: no.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm exercising my will and I want to achieve my goals.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_01: I want to create because I have to admit
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: I do have a complex of God.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to create walls and exercise my free will totally.
1:01:39
Whether it is possible or not,
1:01:41
you're like,
1:01:42
okay,
1:01:42
I agree it's a big topic.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we will discuss it one day.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, can I share something if it's coming up as you're describing it?
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_02: But what you're describing,
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: it made me think,
1:01:56
SPEAKER_02: well,
1:01:57
SPEAKER_02: but even if I'm,
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: let's say,
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: exercising my will to allow myself to get into this flow state,
1:02:02
SPEAKER_02: right,
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: or into the flow of what light has available,
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: I am choosing to add my energy to this flow.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: And my energy matters.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: So I am by default adding to the energetic flow of this thing,
1:02:18
SPEAKER_02: whereas I could have chosen to be like,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: no,
1:02:21
I'm going to focus right now and do this thing that I want to
1:02:25
do in this way and
1:02:26
SPEAKER_02: keep being a lot more...
1:02:29
SPEAKER_02: in the kind of the decision-making aspect of it.
1:02:31
So then my energy is not part of this flow that I could have
1:02:36
exercised my will to be.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_02: And so that experience would in itself change then, right?
1:02:42
SPEAKER_02: And so that is the co-creation part.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: Where your attention goes and how is where energy goes and how.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_01: So, Pauline, you...
1:02:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something came up for me.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: So yes,
1:03:00
SPEAKER_01: the focus,
1:03:02
we can say that focus is really important because one of the
1:03:06
few things is not the
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: only thing that we can control.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: So the focus or the attention goes, the energy flows.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I'm asking myself,
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: Why am I focused now on this and not on that?
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: Is it my will?
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: Is it my determination?
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: Is it my conscious doing?
1:03:28
Of course,
1:03:31
in the moment,
1:03:33
we humans want to say,
1:03:35
yes,
1:03:35
that is my decision.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: That is what I want.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: That is my will.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_01: But then, for example, let's take millions of people nowadays and
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: whose focus is a total slave to technology, right?
1:03:53
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, do they have a will?
1:04:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: Who is behind their focus?
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's them who is behind their focus.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of things like that.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm hesitating.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't have an answer,
1:04:18
but I'm leaning more towards that I can never say that this is
1:04:23
my will because too
1:04:26
SPEAKER_01: many things are shaping me at any moment.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, that is why I say that it is really like the topic of free will.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a big,
1:04:35
complicated topic and the science doesn't have a definite
1:04:39
answer on it and things
1:04:45
SPEAKER_01: beyond science either because there are many contradictory views on this.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: And actually,
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: what you say,
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: it does also,
1:04:56
SPEAKER_01: it is related to the topic of consciousness and what is consciousness.
1:05:01
And I think it's one of the questions also worth exploring in
1:05:10
the next episodes.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_01: regarding to what you said about whether we manage our attention,
1:05:25
SPEAKER_01: whether we're able to manage our attention,
1:05:28
SPEAKER_01: my stance is,
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: yes,
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: I agree that the majority of people,
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: they don't.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_01: If they don't exercise their free will,
1:05:35
then they're just abducted by their phones and they're abducted
1:05:41
by their automatic
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: behaviors.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: But I do believe that this is something that can be trained.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's leading us to the complete exercise of the free will
1:06:04
yes i agree that that's a question but as i want to be god i
1:06:12
want to exercise it
1:06:14
but meanwhile like uh we need to come to closure so as a
1:06:23
closing question very
1:06:25
SPEAKER_01: quick one taking into comment everything what has been said
1:06:30
Now,
1:06:30
how would you describe the difference between life and flow and
1:06:33
flow and life?
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: Why do we make this difference?
1:06:41
SPEAKER_03: Such a huge question.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_01: Still?
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: I actually...
1:06:52
SPEAKER_02: From what Yulia was describing and her response to what I was saying,
1:06:56
SPEAKER_02: I think it's that agency piece.
1:07:00
So like life and flow is the field bringing together what it
1:07:14
can to be available to
1:07:16
SPEAKER_02: the person experiencing that field.
1:07:23
And me having agency about how I go through that current of
1:07:35
whatever is available.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_02: How am I perceiving it?
1:07:38
SPEAKER_02: How am I letting go or trying to control it?
1:07:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, so...
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: I still think there's an aspect of agency and free will,
1:07:51
SPEAKER_02: which it's required for having agency,
1:07:55
SPEAKER_02: even though I don't know what the degree of it is,
1:07:57
SPEAKER_02: right?
1:07:57
SPEAKER_02: Because it's constantly in flux.
1:07:58
The whole thing is a mix of things coming together,
1:08:02
and it's constantly in flux,
1:08:04
and...
1:08:06
SPEAKER_02: Me operating from my,
1:08:07
SPEAKER_02: let's say,
1:08:08
observer self allows me to occupy life in flow differently and
1:08:14
me to access flow
1:08:15
SPEAKER_02: states within life and flow.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_02: Because there could be the flow state around the thing that's happening,
1:08:23
SPEAKER_02: but then there's also that larger...
1:08:26
flow which is like the life and flow and then also how i occupy
1:08:30
it and how much
1:08:31
agency do i give myself uh in the letting go of in going into
1:08:38
that process right
1:08:39
and just flowing with it um i don't know that's how it's coming
1:08:43
together for me so
1:08:46
do you say where do you have more agency in life and flow or in
1:08:50
the state of flow
1:08:52
SPEAKER_01: state of flow
1:08:54
SPEAKER_02: Not even the state of flow.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_02: It's I have agency in the letting go into the process of flow,
1:09:03
SPEAKER_02: whether it's the state of flow or life and flow.
1:09:06
I experience agency in my ability to shift from one state of
1:09:13
being into another
1:09:14
SPEAKER_02: that allows for that flow aspect.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_02: And for me to be interacting with the field in a different way.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: And for me to experience the field in a different way.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: So I don't have an exact answer for your question,
1:09:27
SPEAKER_02: because I actually don't have that answer yet today.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_02: But I'm just describing something that's not fully yet...
1:09:37
concrete for me I think you did make the distinction because I
1:09:44
think it's one of
1:09:46
the main ones that we mentioned also in our previous
1:09:49
conversations when we talk
1:09:52
about the flow in life we are referring just to specific
1:09:57
moments of flow state that
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: have in and out whereas life and flow is really how we approach life
1:10:07
SPEAKER_01: or the bigger scale.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_02: It's the transition.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: That's actually another distinction, I think.
1:10:13
How do we occupy the transition points from one flow state to
1:10:18
another flow state
1:10:20
SPEAKER_02: within the bigger container of life being in flow,
1:10:25
SPEAKER_02: depending on what it's able to bring together in the field for you,
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: and then you being able to pattern recognize and also...
1:10:36
SPEAKER_02: give up your control around it and go with it.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_02: It's quite a dance of things.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_01: Yulia?
1:10:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I was not sure what I can say.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_01: And then I guess my distinction or the
1:11:06
Bottom line about life and flow versus flow in life is this
1:11:12
relationship to challenges.
1:11:14
It's the thing that I started with and somehow imagining myself
1:11:19
again doing really
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: difficult things physically,
1:11:27
SPEAKER_01: emotionally,
1:11:28
SPEAKER_01: mentally but then knowing that it's worth it
1:11:35
and then at the same time this is this is life and flow and
1:11:40
then flow in life as it
1:11:42
used to be oftentimes i would engineer for myself this flow
1:11:50
experiences by doing
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: different things and using different hacks
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: like breathing a certain way,
1:11:59
SPEAKER_01: balancing on the board,
1:12:01
SPEAKER_01: doing this,
1:12:02
SPEAKER_01: doing that,
1:12:04
SPEAKER_01: following all the protocols for flow triggers and engineering that.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: But then, okay, what's beyond that limited in time flow experience?
1:12:15
SPEAKER_01: Beyond that, the challenges start to feel like shit.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_01: No, it makes sense.
1:12:25
And I remember in one of the previous conversations that may or
1:12:29
may not be on
1:12:31
SPEAKER_01: recording,
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: this is the disclosure for our listeners,
1:12:35
SPEAKER_01: I believe you said that the challenge,
1:12:41
the difficult experience is one of the triggers that help you
1:12:45
to enter into closed
1:12:46
SPEAKER_01: state.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
1:12:48
I just wanted really us to mark this distinction between that
1:12:53
flow state is just
1:12:55
the state that has in and out and life of flow is just really
1:13:01
how we approach life
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: and everything what happens between this.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_01: Pockets of bliss.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:13:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for this flow experience.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_01: I invite our listeners also to share their ideas.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, hold on.
1:13:31
Before ending,
1:13:32
what's your summary of your...
1:13:35
I did mention it while I was summarizing your...
1:13:44
your summary okay yes yes i do agree so like the the flow in
1:13:50
life for me is just
1:13:51
this like pockets of bliss of these moments of flow state that
1:13:57
have in and out yeah
1:13:59
whereas life and flow is really how we approach life this
1:14:06
attitude and this dance
1:14:08
SPEAKER_01: between surrender and co-creation
1:14:15
cool thank you so again the invitation to our listeners share
1:14:24
with us your ideas
1:14:26
how do you see the difference between life and flow and flow
1:14:29
and life what life in
1:14:32
SPEAKER_01: flow is for you and share also whatever that comes up to you
1:14:42
through your somatic experience while you have been dancing
1:14:46
with us today.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: And we're waiting for you in the next episodes,
1:14:55
in our following explorations of this fascinating phenomenon of
1:15:04
life and flow.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: How was it for you?
1:15:15
We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
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the better off we all are.
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SPEAKER_01: More connected, more creative, more alive.
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SPEAKER_01: So let's expand the field.
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SPEAKER_01: If this episode resonated with you, help us spread the word.
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SPEAKER_01: Share it with a friend, leave a comment or give us a rating.
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SPEAKER_01: We love you.
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SPEAKER_02: Do subscribe so you'll know when the next experiment comes out.
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SPEAKER_02: You can also connect with us on our Life & Flow group substack.
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SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear from you.
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SPEAKER_02: Let's keep flowing together.