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248: Beyond the Press Release: Creative Strategies for Media Coverage with Guest Liese Garder · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, kendra Korman, and today I am joined by Lisa Gardner right, did I say that?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm like all nervous.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: She is a.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to read her bio here.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: She's a seasoned communications, pr and marketing consultant with a background in journalism and magazine editing.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: She founded Lisa Gardner Communications in 1999, driven by her passion for helping creative companies, both large and small, enhance their visibility and brand presence.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: She specializes in brand strategy, content marketing and memoir writing, offering services that include social media management, content creation and exclusive writing workshops.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Her approach is often described as that of a brand therapist utilizing her skills in writing and visual storytelling to elevate her clients' brands.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Kendra, for having me.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to be here.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one of the things that I'm excited to talk about because we were talking about this before we started recording is that we're going to discuss a little bit about how you look at your business, product or service from a completely different point of view.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: So, for fun, let's say that today's show is popping in on you.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: What would a reporter find interesting?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: How would they craft a compelling story about you?
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So I love people that can do this and, as we were saying, it's a lot easier to do it for someone else than yourself.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So how do you help people see these cool stories in their businesses?
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I found when I was writing for the magazine and I was the editor of a magazine for about 13 years and I had to do profiles on businesses, like once a month.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Um, that was when we were coming out monthly and so I would go and travel around the country doing these profiles.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And how I chose the businesses was a lot of different reasons.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Um, it was a trade magazine, so it was very niche, but I still chose them for geography and for their history and for their business arc.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: And if they were doing something different in their market, or if they were like the only one in their market, or if they were 10th in their market, and but they're really killing it, so what are they doing differently?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: So I think, um, the main thing to be doing is looking at your business as if you were, um, as if well, what?
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: As if today's show is coming, but as if you were a story yourself and that you have a cast of characters who are making things happen and you have an arc to your story, to your day, to your week, to the month, to your year.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: What are some of the things that?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: What are some of your goals, what have been some of your challenges, your solutions, and within those I guess call it, within those little tiny nooks and crannies, there usually is an interesting story, because we kind of take a look at our story and media.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: If you are looking to get media media has changed so much Like you aren't going to get a full profile of your company.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Usually if today's show comes, you're probably you might be part of, you know a trend article or a or trend story or some other type of story that won't just be like all about you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: So you have to kind of show well, this is how I fit into this current event or this is how I fit into this trend and this is kind of why I'm relevant right now on those kinds of stories because they are on top of the news.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Like, for instance, there is the is it Ambani wedding?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: That's going on.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: There is the um is it ambani wedding?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That's going on.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That's been huge.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So um, a wedding planner who does indian weddings, was just on um the.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the today show but it was like an nbc or it was like a good morning america show, talking about the ambani wedding.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So if you can tie in your story to something that's going on in current events, um, or your business or what you do like.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe you make some sort of special chocolate and it was at the wedding or something.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: So how can people get this special chocolate?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I'm in tight into the Ambani wedding, which is getting so much press on social media.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I guess that would be one way.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Um, milestones, creative solutions that you've had, your journey, the characters that are in your story.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that are working with you or for you that maybe have an interesting background, maybe one of your chefs or something and I do work with a lot of caterers.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: So if I refer to catering and chefs, that's why Maybe one of your, even your dish person or your linen person has worked in the white house or something, and they they have a whole system for the linens.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I mean that's a great story.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: You don't have to.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: You can look for bite size stories instead of the big chunky stories and keep on chipping away at that, because even the small stories get as much play as these large profiles, and I don't.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I think the profiles are the hardest thing to get.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: And I like what you're talking about with leveraging current events, because I think that that's really important.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine is a financial planner and her PR person got her on the news to talk about dating on a budget Because you know the financial situation and what was going on and they were approaching Valentine's day and so they were able to.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: With the financial changes and things like the current financial environment, she didn't talk about financial planning, she talked about dating on a budget.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: You know it's like you don't have to be talking about.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: You know the market.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: If you're a financial planner, you can talk about just so many different things depending on what fits your brand, so that's just really cool.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about stories in general.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You talked about a story arc.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little bit more for our listeners and watchers?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: a story arc.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Can you explain that a little bit more for our listeners and watchers?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Oh sure, so a story arc, as you know, for any kind of show you're watching there is their characters go through different things based on challenges and things that come up, or they are looking to learn something different, or something happens in the market that makes them have to go in a different direction, and how do they deal with that?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: So your story arc of your business could be that you are just a one-year startup and you've done this, this and this.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Or your story arc is you are a 30-year-old business and this is how you stayed in business and this is how you stayed in business and these are the things that you have done to get your business to be a solid business for 30 years and how you can help other people.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And maybe you have a mentorship program or you are bringing up other people in the same way, or you are teaching people within your company, teaching people within your company.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I also recommend to constantly be looking at things you can be creating within your company, so you don't want to be just like this is what my company is doing and we've done it for 30 years like, figure out how you can create, like, maybe, a program within your company that would be newsworthy or even just worthy of telling your clients.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Like we are starting an entrepreneurial program or we are starting to do webinars or workshops, or you can.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, it does get to be a little bit much and so, but we have to always be thinking about how we are evolving and being of service to not just our own clients, but prospective clients and people and our own clients as they grow with us as well.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: So so one of the things that I struggle with with a lot of my clients, it's explaining to them what's a newsworthy, because the fact that you had your 10 year anniversary, 20 year anniversary, 30 year anniversary, nobody cares.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, we can do what I call a marketing release, also known as a blog post, that we can put on the website or send out through the local chambers of commerce, but outside of that, none of the news stations are going to pick that up.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: No newspaper really picks that up.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about determining newsworthiness, because everybody thinks that all of their stuff is the most important in the world.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I know, and you know, what always roots me the most is when people like redo their website and want to do a press release about that go.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I kind of just like I'm like in what have you ever read an article on someone doing their website?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: You just haven't, and so you need to look at well one.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I would suggest to people that they create a wishlist of press they'd like to be in.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: If they have like, say a six month, you know runway for that press, they say oh, I'd like to be.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And If they have like, say a six month, you know runway for that press, they say oh, I'd like to be.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And the today show is a very long, long reach.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So let's say, you want to be in your mark in your local um, you know cranes business or your local NBC affiliate, whatever, um.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So you go like so start watching them and understand what kind of stories they're doing on business.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So to just, you're in your own business so much that you don't realize what the news media is really paying attention to.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: So take a look and see what are they taking, what are they doing stories on, and you know, for the most part, with business, it's going to have to tie into some sort of lifestyle type of thing, unless they are a business publication fully.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: To get on something like a TV type of show, it has to be something that is visual.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So is there something visual that you're doing?
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Are you creating some sort of like world's largest pizza, of like world's largest pizza?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: We all know how much that gets pressed right.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: We don't want to do that, but if you are doing it, if that is something that's in your wheelhouse and that's something that you want to do, you just need to go like okay, well, what would be the pizza months that are the best pizza months?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: What does our local news like to cover?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: How would this tie into something that's happening locally?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: How do our cast of characters tie into that?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Do we have somebody from Italy who's made something interesting?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Do we make our own plates that are like artisanal pottery that makes our tables look like something out of the bear you know or do?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: How can we tie into something like that that's happening?
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: So I really think people need to pay attention first to the media.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: You're going after make your wish list, make three stories you think could happen and then start to like reverse engineer it so that then you can start putting those little tiny minutiae into place and you can start sending out.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I also recommend a run-up of press releases versus on-story pitches so that within that time period, they're going to get like five press releases from you because, just like social media, we need to know you, like you trust you to buy from you.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So your local news person will want to feel the same way.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: They will want to know who you are and go like oh yeah, well, I know that, oh yeah, I've seen that person's press releases come through.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I know what they've been doing.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I know what they've been doing for the past couple months.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Let's bring them in, because they are always, always looking for story and content and you could be part of a roundup which is part of like maybe five companies doing something, so, um, or you are featured for your own news worthy um activity that's going on, so um, I would say to create your own like kind of like an editorial calendar, or create your own timeline and can carry, carry it through.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does so.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about one of the biggest things I think that I talk to my clients about, and that is what's in it for your reader watcher.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: You know, what is it that they're getting out of it when I go into these podcast recordings or writing an email, or if I'm working with a coaching client and they're like I'd like to introduce myself and I'm going to be like, okay, what's in it for me as the reader, what's in it for me as the person listening or watching to that episode of the podcast?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: What's the takeaway?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I get that you want to talk about you, but I want to talk about, or I want to know more about, what I can do or actions I can take, that type of thing.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: So when you're thinking about that, how do you help people?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Sort of reframe, I guess.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I would say the best word you can use over and over again is the word you in your marketing, and not you, but you as the customer.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: So I do see this happen over and over again.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: People want to and they want to be of help and they want to be of service.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: But the way that they're marketing is, you know, the pointing back towards them and their company rather than pointing outwards to the customer.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And the biggest thing about, you know, any kind of writing or story is why should I care?
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: You need to tell me, why should I care about this story?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: So you need to start.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: That's what that hook is all about.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: You know it gets them and then they can kind of move on and deeper into the story.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: So why should I care?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And the reason is is that it's going to give them something of value.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So and that does.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: That does bring me to my to that question that you asked was what's your strongest marketing takeaway was always be of service, be relevant and be willing to give a lot of stuff away for free for a long time.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: You know again, I love the whole imagery of a runway up to something, if you've got something to sell, if you have.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: If you want to be selling a certain product or if you're going to be doing a launch, you need that runway to create the why should I care to create that answer and to get people interested and to understand, to make them understand that you are there to help them and to give them something rather than just to be wanting their you know their dollars.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So to create a community.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So I think I think that's the most important thing for any kind of business today is I'm sure you want to get people in the door, come and buy our cookies, but you have to tell them, like, why are my cookies so important to you?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Why should you want these cookies and how are those cookies going to help our community?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: You know, and you know this is when we start selling them and you're going to want to be here.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: You're going to be getting this, this and this.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the good things that I'm going to pull out of what you said because I want to emphasize it a little bit is give things away for free.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, Nobody can replace how you approach it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Lisa and I were talking, before we jumped on recording, about how we're so close to our businesses.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: It's really hard to get this angle for ourselves right, Because you know we do get there, and so we could talk all day about the different angles and we could give someone a checklist of questions and some people will get it and some people will still hire you to help them find that PR piece I.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I get regularly questioned a lot um about how much is too much for free and I and I usually say, well, there's not a lot that I'm not okay with giving away for free.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: You don't want to give like the whole how and step by step and have it replace everything, or you know tons of free consulting hours.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: There's a difference between the value you can provide through checklists and white papers and things like that, but give it all away.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: People are still going to hire you because they still don't want to do it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, consider a cookbook, right.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: So a cookbook has, like a restaurant does a cookbook and gives away all our recipes.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: For the most part, maybe they don't give away their best whatever, but they give away a certain amount of recipes.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: You are still going to go to that restaurant, you are still going to buy the cookbook, but again, it's also that's another part of feeling like a community, because if you can go to that restaurant, you can get the cookbook and you've made the recipes and you're learning.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I think people really like, they bond with people who give them something for free and can teach them.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I think we are just so, we respect it and I, I know I am so grateful when someone gives their knowledge for free and you can certainly tell people that this.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: You know, this is something that I'm doing.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: This is this webinar.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: If you want to go deeper with me, I mean, you do need to tack on the little bit of information of at the end of it, of like, well, if you do want to get more, this is how you can get it, or you can buy my book or you know those kinds of things.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Um, but I think so many people need to make that connection and if they make that connection with you, you've got a, you've got a loyal customer, you've got a fan for life.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I think so not to be afraid of that whole giving it away for free.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I think that there is just so much that we can share.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: But yes, as entrepreneurs solopreneurs we only get paid if people hire us, right?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So I can't you can't pick my brain for an hour.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, or you know different things like that, but you know.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I can tell you why.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: You know different things like that, but you know.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I can tell you why I post things on social media the way I do.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I can tell you how to generate 30 days of social post ideas.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I just earlier this summer, I started a series on how I did it and I literally show people how I draft emails with social using AI, how I'm taking my podcast and breaking that up, how I take an email newsletter and break that up, um, into social posts.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I can show you how, how I do it all day long, right, um?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But some people are still going to hire me because they don't want to do it themselves you know, yeah, yeah, definitely there's that element.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: But also, they are going and if they, if they do do it, they're not.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: People are also afraid of being copied or something like oh my, well, my competitor is going to get that, well, they're going to do it differently than you.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: You're never, no one's ever, going to be the same.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: You just aren't going to be the same.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And yes, pete, there is the do it yourself versus we'll do it for you kind of mentality, and I think there's a lot of.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I just don't have the time.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: This is something that I can give to someone else to do.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Plus, there's only, like you know, one of us.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: We can only take so many clients.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: So, teaching I like the idea of teaching one to many rather than one on one.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I like the idea of teaching one to many rather than one-on-one.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I really love that idea more than that, because I can then reach more people with how to write something or how to do something.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I have a couple of examples on that of the giving away for free and ramping it up.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Which is my favorite is this company called Floret Flowers F-L-O-R-E-T, and if you follow her, you will get so much information on how to grow a zinnia, a dahlia and a celosia.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: She just like goes really deep into it, she, and from that she's created a community.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, she is a flower bre breeder, so she's breeding these new types of zinnias and they're going under her florets originals, so she's stopping the other seed groups that she'd been selling.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: She pushed this year to sell florets originals, so online they so online.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: They opened up their seed purchasing, I guess, time window and they did it like they were launching an online product.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: So there's the countdown clock, there's the you know get in line for this time period, and so.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So it made it fun.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And she had all these followers who've been following her all year long, knowing that these zinnias are going to be one of a kind.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: They're good.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: This is her opening session of it all.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: She's sold, she's has three books on the New York times bestseller list too on flowers.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So she's yeah, she's done a lot Um, so I know people like that.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I'm not doing enough.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So she's also inspirational that way too.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: But I really love it that this is, you know, flower seeds, so it can be applied to anything those kinds of um giving, and she does webinars then on how to, um, well, how to sow your your seeds from scratch, you know, from seed, and she gives webinars on how, then, to get seeds from your plants that have been already grown, which is amazing, because she is trying to sell those seeds.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So, but she's, but she doesn't fear that she's not ever going to sell another seed in her life, you know.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: So she's actually creating a very healthy community and she shows everything behind the scenes, and if you don't think some things are that interesting, you'd be surprised.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: There is a burgeoning YouTube group out of there, that there's a lot of people growing up that don't have a lot of like common knowledge yet, and so we are looking to YouTube, or we're looking to this, to like learn cooking or learn seed growing or learn marketing, and we're just fascinated by even the minutia of it.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So, um, again, I would suggest to anyone thinking about, you know, going into these different.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: They want a YouTube channel, or they want to write a book, or they want to get media um, go deep on it and find out what's out there before you think, oh no, I could never do that, or why would anyone be interested in that?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have watched a whole YouTube on how to, like you know, cover up a screw kind of thing you know hole to make sure that this screw doesn't show.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And I think we all go to YouTube now for such interesting things.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, you don't really want to like, go, like gosh.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be a total creator either, but if there might be a happy medium there where you can find a place to put your content, that people can find it and find you and then go deeper into what you do, very cool.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think you're right on with all of that.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: So share as much as you can, because that doesn't replace you and your style, and, no, nobody can copy you to the same level that you do things, and so go ahead and give it away for free.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Lisa, before I let you go, the question that I ask everybody is this show is called imperfect marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: So I kind of I guess I sort of jumped over it.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: But, yes, to be of service and value at every level, to be able to figure out how to give away your knowledge, to pull back the curtain on the things that you do and teach other people how you do it and how they can do it and why it's important to them to do it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's the um the flip side of that too.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: You're showing them this, but why is it important as well?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: So, and so you explain to them.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to show you how to repurpose my content, and the reason why we do this is so that it makes your life easier or you get your message out there.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You know, three times more than just sharing it once.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And you do have to explain to the people that no, no one person is looking at all your content all the time.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So it's okay to reshare your content over and over.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Um, that you will hit at different levels.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is definitely the buyer's journey that our buyer is on.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Is that they're just like we don't know about this product.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Now we do, now we want to go deeper into it and now we want to like, binge that person's content and then at some point, they've gotten all your content but you don't know where you're going to hit them on their buyer's journey.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Don't know where you're going to hit them on their buyer's journey.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So that way, that's the giving back and the from everything you do and being able to find all the different platforms and give on all of them If you, if you have the time.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: It is a big ask.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Our lives have gotten a little bit busier as business owners because of the very many different places we can put our message, but I believe that when we put that time and energy into this, that will come back to us.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So, again, invest in sharing your knowledge everywhere.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: You can teach others how to do what you do and why it's important, because they will appreciate the time that you gave them and the information that you gave them so that they become a huge fan of yours and I think I'm a huge fan of this aspect of things, and so I do appreciate all of your time, lisa.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much again for joining me.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: For those listening and watching, wherever you're listening or watching, it would really help me out if you would rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, because that's how other people will find more helpful information and future episodes.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: So until next time on another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us and have a great rest of your day.