Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Why Awareness Alone Isn't Enough | Episode 8
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar: It's Mental Health Awareness Month, which means you're going to see lots of posts, quotes, and conversations about mental health. But here's the question. Are we actually using this time to help people, or are we just raising awareness? Again. Marc Rogala: And maybe even a bigger question is, why do we only treat mental health like it's only a problem? Kelsey Dunbar: Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill. Today we're talking about Mental Health Awareness Month, but not from the usual angle. What we want to talk about is what mental health actually is, why it's not just something bad, and how to actually use this month to make real impact. I think one of the biggest misunderstandings right now is this. People hear mental health and they think something immediately must be wrong, but that's not exactly what it is, right? Marc Rogala: No, it's not. In fact, before we started recording this, I wanted to actually look up the actual definition of mental health. And mental health, according to ⁓ the AI, is a state of emotional... psychological and social well-being that enables individuals to cope with life stresses, realize their abilities, learn and work well, and contribute to their community. So you tell me what the hell that's supposed to mean in English, Kelsey. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, The way you and I always talk it is it ⁓ basically just refers to your state of mind any given point in time. ⁓ It really can be that simple. And I think it should be that simple. And I think that that would help us go a long way to end the stigma behind the words mental health. So ⁓ it's not a diagnosis, it's not a label. It's something everyone has every single day. If I think about my own life, there are times where everything feels aligned and other times where things feel heavy, even if nothing major is wrong. So have you seen that with people too? Obviously, right? Marc Rogala: It can change throughout the day, multiple times throughout the day, depending on what's going on and how your day is going. Kelsey Dunbar: course. Marc Rogala: And yes, I mean, obviously, depending on what's going on in your life is going to affect your mood or your state of mind, whether you're going through a trying circumstance, you're dealing with stress at work or with the kids or whatever it might be. So absolutely, it's something that can change on a regular basis and it's something that we need to look at from the inside out and do an introspective about it. Kelsey Dunbar: So the big question is, why do you think mental health is almost always viewed as something negative? Marc Rogala: think it's always viewed as something negative for the simple reason the only time we hear somebody talk about it is when they're in crisis mode. I mean, I really do believe that. You know, mean, you know, you, don't hear about somebody at the water crew talking about how they're having depressed feelings or dark thoughts, or they're going through a situation about what's going on in the household or they're feeling a little anxious today. It's just something that's not discussed on a regular basis. However, people talk about their diets and their meal prep and what they're having for lunch. And if they hit the gym and things like that, there's a huge discrepancy when it comes to physical health and mental health. And unfortunately people keep that stuff bottled up inside. They don't share it with their loved ones. They don't share it with their friends. And then all of a sudden crisis comes into play. And then when crisis comes into play, they have to seek some form of treatment. And then all of a sudden, boom, people assume the worst. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, like you said, you know, we don't celebrate when we're in a good place mentally. We only talk about it when something's wrong. So I'm proposing this, but this is going to be my thing for mental health awareness month. I'm going to start doing posts, reels, videos, and some of them are going to be, I feel really great today. That's it. Cause I think that the more that people say, you know what? I don't feel like there's something dragging me down. I must be doing something right. Or, you know, I'm not worried about what's going to happen next week. I'm celebrating today. And if we say, hey, I'm celebrating my mental health, people are going to be like, celebrating mental health. Interesting. So I'm going to see if I can flip the narrative a little bit. So, but I also think there's another layer to this that doesn't get talked about. much it's not just that people struggle, it's a lot of people don't even want to acknowledge their mental health because of what we think it says about them, you know, the labels, right? So where avoid the conversation, not just because they don't feel something, but because they don't want the label that might come with it. So wouldn't you agree, Marc Rogala: Absolutely, and I mean, just to take it one step further, and you and I chatted offline about this, everybody has physical health, everybody has some capacity, has some type of spiritual health or spiritual fitness, and everybody has mental health. Period. Whether it's thriving, whether it needs some improvement, whether you're struggling, everybody has mental health. And the reason why I say that is because sometimes when you say, when you talk about mental health, you will literally hear people say, I don't have mental health. You have mental health. The question is, is where you're at in the paradox. Just like physical health, where are you at in the paradox? You know, so I mean, that's really where we're at from a stigma perspective. I mean, people literally like this. I don't have mental health. I mean, you and again, we've come a long way. I get that, I understand that and respect that, but we have to normalize these conversations on a regular basis. And people need to feel comfortable talking about this with their loved ones, their spouses, their children, you know, because that open dialogue with the children might surprise some parents with what comes back from those children as well. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, so just in a nutshell, people don't think state of mind. They think diagnosis or disorder or something must be wrong because you're talking about mental health. And as we say, the labels are tricky because for some people, if they get diagnosed with something, maybe they can start seeking treatment, whether that's counseling of some sort or medication for those who need it or could benefit from it. And certainly nothing wrong with that. And it's like any other illness. When you're getting treatment, you're getting treatment. There shouldn't be anything wrong with getting treatment for mental illness, any different than treatment for any other illness. And you and I both agree on that, and we've talked about that many times. ⁓ But the labels also can hurt people because then they feel defined by them. And I know this is an obvious question for you, but I'm kind of excited to hear your response on it. So I'll ask anyway. Do you think labels help more or hurt more? Marc Rogala: They absolutely are not. I mean, it's just a negative connotation. mean, people think when people, even when people get diagnosed with depression or anxiety or... PTSD, they think that they're defective, they're worried about what people are going to think, it's viewed as a weakness. ⁓ I mean, a lot of things go through your mind, you know, when you're going through a situation like that, when the chupitol is just a medical diagnosis, it's no different than being diagnosed with diabetes or something like that, you know, and with corrective action, you can keep that disease in check, that illness in check. And that's going to come with education and things like that, which we're going to get more into in these podcasts. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, 100%. So, and then I think, you know, it even gets worse than that because people, because they're afraid of getting hit with that label, what do they do instead? Marc Rogala: They hide everything. They're not being open, honest and transparent. It's almost like they're a double life. They got a facade on. Kelsey Dunbar: Absolutely. Marc Rogala: you know, how they portray that what people want them to be. And in the meantime, inside is just suffering and that suffering is almost like a cancer growing inside of them. And then what happens is the disease is going to spiral to a worsening state. But then more importantly, that's when you start seeing habits kick in, you know, with obsessive eating or substances or alcohol or gambling or whatever it might be. And that's where it gets really scary. And that's where it's going to lead to a full crisis mode. where it's very difficult to get out of. And if we can normalize those conversations and just make a part of everyday talk, it's going to prevent it from the disease elevating or that illness elevating to that particular level and it's going to save a lot of chaos on people's lives for sure and family's lives for sure. Kelsey Dunbar: Preach. Okay, before change gears, Marc, I just want to ask you, so what would it look like if people started viewing mental health the same way we view physical health? Marc Rogala: Well, here's the thing about that. And I've been doing some deep thinking over the last week, as you know, because we have a lot of conversations offline and... I'd be a game changer. I'd be an absolute game changer. All you gotta do is look at pictures. I'm 52 years old. If you look at pictures of me at various stages of life, when I was in my late teens to my mid-20s to my mid-30s to my late 30s to my early to mid-40s to when I turned 50 to where I'm at right now. Man, I mean, it almost looks like I'm three or four different people. You know, between one having hair, not having hair, but also with the weight, you know, and, and, you know, and, and, and the build. and the thing about that is, is when you look back at those pictures, like honestly, like when I look at a picture of me, when I started to begin struggling in my middle, late thirties, I'm like, Jesus, what the hell was I thinking? I mean, it kind of disgusts me. Unfortunately, when I look at some of those pictures, because I mean, it was so clear to me, it was a downward spiral, but you just don't know it when you're in it. But those are the physical pictures. But if there was a way that we can actually take a picture, and I know it's not realistic, of our mental state during that same timeframe, you're gonna see just as much volatility with your mental state as you are with your physical state. It just doesn't exist. It just doesn't exist. And the other thing is too, is like, and I've used this before, like when you are... in crisis. You think you're a good job hiding it, but once that disease escalates to a certain level, you're the last person to realize everybody around you already knows. And as I said before, when you're in recovery and you're focused on your recovery, you're just trying to focus on getting better. You're the last person to realize everybody sees the changes in you. You're the last one to realize the actual changes are happening. Now you can see the physical changes in the mirror and that helps with your psyche and your mental state, but you can't see these changes up here, whether it's going downward or whether it's going upward and it's excelling during recovery. And sometimes it's somebody to bring it to your attention for you to do some soul searching to say, ⁓ yeah, man, I am a little bit of an eye in a downward spiral or the opposite way. Yeah, I'm in a good space. I'm really working hard. on my recovery, I've been really working hard on my mind and my body to try to get in a better mental state. That's why it's so important to normalize these conversations because those words can prevent crisis on the front end, but it's words of inspiration and positivity on the back end as well. Kelsey Dunbar: ⁓ Yeah, and that's why this month matters. So if we can shift how people see mental health, ⁓ know, we can kind of take the idea of mental health awareness. You know, when they say awareness, everybody thinks awareness is as in to say, ⁓ understand that people are suffering. We understand that people suffer from mental health. Yeah, we're aware. Like we're evolving. And it's like, ⁓ good. Yes. But I think that the greater awareness can come from understanding what mental health is and that it affects all of us. If we can get that kind of awareness out of Mental Health Awareness Month, that is just in my mind, the most evolved form that we possibly can get out of a Mental Health Awareness Month. So since we're switching gears now into discussing Mental Health Awareness Month more specifically. Marc, why don't you give our listeners a little history lesson, because you were looking this up this week about Mental Health Awareness Month and how it came to be. So lay it on us. Marc Rogala: rules. Well, first and foremost, I didn't realize that it was established in 1949. It's existed a lot longer than I thought. I don't even remember mental health awareness month as a teenager. I don't know about you, Kelsey, but I don't remember if the schools ever make it a big deal about it. No, I never was brought up. It was started by a gentleman in this little irony here. His name was Clifford Beers, B-E-E. R.S. beers, like the beverage. As far as I know, he didn't struggle with alcoholism from what I've read, okay? But there is some irony there with that last name, with what that does and what it's doing to drive the mental health crisis right now. But. He was born in 1876. His first hospitalization was in 1900. He was just turning 24 years old. He suffered from severe depression that I think eventually became what we know as bipolar now. And they said extreme paranoia. Way back when, when you struggle with extreme depression or you were in mental health crisis, they didn't have psychiatric hospitals. They didn't have outpatient facilities. They just institutionalized you. And when he was institutionalized in 1900, ⁓ unfortunately, he got very poor care, was physically abused while he was institutionalized in care, got on the other side and got his life into recovery and made it his mission to provide awareness and try to expand care for those struggling on mental health side. Interesting stat, 1913, he actually started the first outpatient program. I didn't know outpatient program existed back in 1913. He actually became the honorary president of the World Foundation of Mental Health, where he actually retired working from. Sadly, he died in 1943. He was 67 years old when he passed away, died of natural causes. So he never saw his dream actually come to realization because Mental Health Awareness Month was not formed until 1949. But he is the gentleman that they say started this initiative. And he is the gentleman that they said was the founder of Mental Health Awareness Month. And I think that's actually pretty cool to give him some acknowledgement because he's done wonders. Absolutely. Absolutely. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, no, that's awesome. All right, so to present day. So do we actually use this month the right way? Because awareness is great, but awareness alone doesn't change anything. So Marc, why don't you start us off with an example of something people can do this month to celebrate mental health awareness the right way, or as we would say, the suffer the tougher way. Marc Rogala: Well, I mean, first and foremost, when you start talking about awareness, become aware of your own mental health. I mean, it's not necessarily showing more empathy towards individuals that have a diagnosis, but let's look inward and let's do an assessment of where we are at right now. And if we have to make changes or corrective actions in place, I think that is very important. Obviously take some time to educate yourself on the topic. I think that would be good. Normalize conversations, check in on your fellow brothers and sisters. Get active in the community, maybe participate in the 5K. I know there's a lot of, you know, fundraisers that are going on this particular month. I know from a federal budget perspective, they reduced funds on the mental health side in 2026. So I know a lot of organizations are short on funds right now. Just get active. But I think the best way that we could pay average to mental health awareness month is just not make it about one month. Let's make it 12 months and 365 days a year, because that's really what needs to happen moving forward. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, 100%. I mean, use it as a launch. Okay. So it doesn't have to be a one month and done. How about one month to get yourself on the right path, either in terms of checking in with loved ones, keep up with them after this month. We don't stop reaching out to people after a month and you're like, ⁓ but it's not mental health awareness month. Well, do know someone that's still struggling? Then still be there. Right. And you know, the, the habits, that you start in Mental Health Awareness Month, build on those. Okay. So, you know, instead of just posting something, I mean, obviously we're going be posting a lot of stuff. We're going be doing a lot of conversations, some great stuff here in this month, but ⁓ it's not just We're actually reaching to the community. We're having real conversations, and like Marc said, be honest with yourself where you're at. ⁓ it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're in a place. But where can you be in an even better place? What does that look like? Think about where you are and then say, but where do I want to be? And start taking steps towards that. because are celebrating the month, I also to pay some acknowledgement to some resources that out there for people and acknowledge the organizations that do great And so I wanted to bring a couple of those up. And so really strong resources out there for people in crisis organizations like the National Alliance ⁓ on Mental Illness, so NAMI. They offer support groups, education and tools, not just for individuals, but for families as well. ⁓ also Mental Health America, which focuses more on early awareness, ⁓ people recognize what they're experiencing before it becomes overwhelming. So ⁓ of similar to the stuff we do. And if someone needs immediate support, Certainly the 988 crisis lifeline is available 24 seven. So, ⁓ by up these ⁓ organizations, you we're not passing the buck. We're still here to help and we want you to be a part of our community and we take the people in our community as family ⁓ and we help out in any way that we can. But these are some really great organizations, especially if you're in crisis and you need to talk to somebody right away. These are some places that can really help you out. And Marc, you have some personal experiences with these organizations and several others that do great work. Why don't you kind of tell us a little bit about the work that you've seen done and, you know, that's happening around, the local area that you know of and give them their flowers. Marc Rogala: Well, NAMI is a wonderful organization. And they were founded in 1985 and they were founded by four mothers in Wheaton, Illinois, all places, right in our backyard. And the reason why they were founded by those four mothers is each one of them had children that had severe mental health illness. I believe unfortunately a couple of those children took their own life and they had a dream, they had a vision. I don't think that they could have envisioned that it would grow to a national scale as it has. I had the... ⁓ It was lovely to see. I actually met one of the only founding member of NAMI last year at a gala and she was older and she was in wheelchair bound and they were showing like videos of them doing the planning at the kitchen tables at this house in Wheaton. And every time that she looked at the screen, you know, she was clapping, she couldn't communicate verbally or whatever, she had tears in her eyes. But the thing that was most beautiful about it was she had her family members. her table and I don't even think her family members realize how massive this organization has grown because I saw the emotion in their faces as well. I mean, they have suicide prevention. have, you know, people who have lost suicide, lost friends or relatives to suicide. got, they got support groups for that. They got support groups for mental health. They got dual diagnosis support groups. If you struggle with the mental health and addiction side, it's just a great organization. It's a nonprofit organization. It's free of charge to participate in those events or those programs, excuse me. And honestly, they help me tremendously. when I was going through my crisis as well. AA is good, NA is good, GA is good, so Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, mean there's an anonymous for everything right, traditional 12 stops. Those are all great organizations as well. You know and then I'm going to give a shout out and I'm you know kind of going rogue on you here Kelsey, but I'm going to give a shout out to BVO Boxing Solutions. Okay. And the reason why I'm going to give a shout out for them is it's a wonderful concept. It's a boxing gym down in Mokina, Illinois. It's a true nonprofit. It was started in the name of the gentleman's son that unfortunately passed away due to his crisis. And literally it's for people that are struggling. Kelsey Dunbar: Right on, yeah. Marc Rogala: or in recovery. And if you're struggling or an early recovery, I don't even think there's a fee or a very nominal fee of that to participate and actually go work out and get some boxing lessons and so forth. They have AA meetings there, Smart Recovery. Smart Recovery is another good program too. And they got Smart Recovery meetings there. They got women's groups there. They're doing a lot in the recovery community as well. And of course we are too. And the thing about it is, that When you start talking about recovery on the mental health or addiction side, support at multiple layers is so important. You cannot do it by yourself. It's impossible to do it by yourself. The more you layer your support and have more resources available to you, the more sound your recoveries are gonna be, whether it's mental health or dual diagnosis of mental health and addiction. So. All the, you I participated in AA, I participated in NA for a little bit. I participated with NAMI, I participated with Smart Recovery, I participated with the Recovery Group in church. I mean, I did everything. Now a lot of times that's what you need to do, you know, to tackle the mental health and the addictive component. And that's really why we started this organization here was to kind of take all that knowledge, you know, and the resources that we have to be able to give coaching and guidance to individuals that are struggling and looking to make changes in their life. So I guess I'll give ourselves a plug too, Kels. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I mean, it's great that all those organizations exist because a lot of people don't ask for help until things already feel too heavy. And then that's when they really need that. But a lot of the work that Marc and I do is to try to help people before they get to that point. ⁓ we talk about the messy middle, the people that either ⁓ know they have a problem, don't think they have a problem, they're just looking for some way to not get so stressed out or not Marc Rogala: Exactly. Kelsey Dunbar: be stuck at night not being able to sleep because you got too much on your mind. Not really knowing how to, as likes to say, do the next right thing. All right, so that's actually why we came up with the book as a resource for people that aren't already getting services or aren't sure if they need services. ⁓ And that's kind of the work that we do. So kind of in conjunction that, Marc, in order for people to feel more grounded, ⁓ Refresh our memories on some good strategies to cope with your emotions before they get the better of us. You know, just kind of run down some of the suffered a tougher mantra, things that they can start doing in this mental health awareness month to honor it the right way and put their best foot forward. Marc Rogala: Well, I mean, you know me, man. I'm a mind, body, rhythm type of guy. So, I mean, but, you know, let's start with the mind. Positive affirmations, focusing on the positives of the day. ⁓ Glass half full versus half empty. If you're going through a perceived challenging time in life. take a step back a little bit and ask yourself, okay, what's the positive I can take out of it or what's the learning experience here? Because we all know during the greatest challenges of life is our greatest opportunities to learn and become better. So definitely mindset, mindset resets. Rhythm, you know, obviously I'm big exercise guy, but exercise, that's just a general word, just getting your body moving. You get your body moving, it's gonna help you with your brain chemistry. ⁓ I'm a big believer in diet, you know, make some changes to your diet. ⁓ you know, try to eat as clean as you possibly can. That'll help you with your brain chemistry as well, along with eliminating some foods from your diet, like sugar, processed foods, things like that. And then, you know, rituals. know, rituals that become a habit, that eventually become a lifestyle, because that's the goal, is for it to become a lifestyle. Very structured rituals throughout the course of the day. ⁓ You know, when it comes to... the mind, the body, know, ⁓ and then some grounding techniques obviously if you get urges, craves, little anxious feelings or what have you. And my grounding technique is if you're sitting at your desk at work and you get agitated by a coworker or your boss or what have you. You know, take a step away, maybe do some breathing techniques. If you're allowed to maybe take a lap around the office or go walk around the parking lot, drink a cold glass of water. You know, just kind of get your thoughts straight for a little bit before the day runs away from you. And if you get really good at that, it's going to help you get, help you, help prevent you from going down a little bit of a downward spiral and having it maybe, you know, cause chaos in your day, if you will. So it's just, there's a lot of different things, you know, but that's what I would start with because those are the things you can control. It's all about controlling the controllables, right? Kelsey Dunbar: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, honestly, if you you listen to this once and then listen to that part again, I think he just threw out maybe a dozen possibilities of things that you can do to get moving in a in better direction. So I mean, that was that was awesome. So, you know, this month you have some great options to help celebrate Mental Health Awareness Month. If you want to use it as a call to action to help others. Great. What was the last time you checked in on someone without waiting for a reason, of course? You know, pick five or 10 people you really want to reach out to this month and make some meaningful connections with them. And if you'd rather take the month to celebrate mental health awareness month by taking stock of your own mental health and start to establish some new habits or rituals that make you almost bulletproof in the face of adversity, do that. They say it takes 21 days to form a habit. We're giving you a whole month, right? So start off by asking yourself, when was the last time you were honest about how you're doing? and then just go from there. And if you need help with that, we're always here to help guide you. mean, like I said, Marc just gave you some great examples right there. that's a great place to start. ⁓ something else that we're doing for Health Awareness Month, ⁓ if guys take a look, we're have ⁓ Marc model his shirt right now. that's it. Okay, so that's, I know, but I'm just like, nah, you know. No, anyway, so that's our. Marc Rogala: I did not all I Kelsey Dunbar: So ⁓ anyway, so for ⁓ Mental Health Awareness Month, did this, should say, we were offering it. Marc came up with it. Him and his buddy came up with this design for the shirt. I loved it. He sent it to me. I'm like, man, that's the one. So ⁓ it's our new S2T shirt ⁓ for Mental Health Awareness Month and it clearly states on there where there's a pulse, there's hope. That's one of Marc's favorite quotes that he put into our book, Suffer the Tougher. And so obviously it's a mantra we try to live by. And because if someone's still here, then still a path forward, right? So that's the idea. So if you want to support the mission of what we do, how we do it, who we help, how we can help them, the resources that we're able to give people, ⁓ definitely be putting the link in the show notes. Pick yourself up a shirt. Wear it proudly. ⁓ Marc talked about. kind of recently about a lady who actually stopped him the parking lot because he was wearing a mental health awareness t-shirt and thought that it was really cool that he was doing that and supporting the mission and actually thought it was brave. And he's like, it's not brave. That's just what I live by. I think that mental health matters. And so I'm more than happy to be a beacon of hope for other people that I'm a person that understands. what other people go through and I want them to come to me if they feel like they need somebody else who understands. So before... Marc Rogala: you We haven't even talked about this, but one... I wore a mental health shirt today because we're recording this on May 1st. It's the first day of mental health awareness month. And it was at the lime green. It just said mental health awareness on the front. It's got the flag on the back. It's for the military, for the 22 soldiers a day that unfortunately end their lives by suicide. Three people at the gym came up to me today. I really don't wear that shirt at the gym, but I wore it today because it mental health awareness on the front. And then, you know, if I could just say something about this quote, just really, really quick, okay? I've seen a lot of miracles, man. That's all I could say. I've seen a lot of people that were were rode off by their spouses, by their parents, by other members of their family. They weren't given a snowball shot in hell. They were so depressed dealing with mental health, dealing with, you know, alcoholism, addiction or what have you. And I've seen complete 180s. I'm a firm believer with all the miracles I've witnessed. If there's a pulse, there's always hope. There's always an opportunity to change. Get on the other side and live a meaningful life and a purposeful life moving forward. Kelsey Dunbar: I mean, I can't say any better than that. So, you know, basically as you move through this month, don't just be aware of Mental Health Awareness Month. Use it. Be about it. Talk to other people about it. Create both awareness that it exists and awareness of what mental health really is. And as we always say, you're not broken, you're just overloaded. but you never have to do it alone. Good night, everyone.