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America's New Pharmacy: Gas Stations · Millennial Mental Health Channel

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to MMHC, your go-to mental health podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm Eddie Carrillo, a licensed professional counselor.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm Justin Romano, a board-certified child and adolescent psychiatrist.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: We created MMHC to give listeners evidence-based information directly from
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: professionals who work in mental health.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We're not influencers. We're not trying to sell you anything.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: mental health into this world.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: And we really think that learning about mental health should
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: be fun, interesting, and most importantly, honest.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy the show. Welcome back to the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Summer of Substances. Today, we have a very special episode
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: for you. It is gas station drugs.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: You know who did an episode about this? It was
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: John Oliver. I just saw it pop up on the YouTube.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yes!
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: But he did one, so hopefully... Hopefully we do it
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: justice because there was definitely a lot of deep diving
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: that I had no idea about. But it makes sense
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: when you find out some of this information.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: For sure. And a lot of that episode, because I'm
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a pretty religious follower of that show, was about how
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the stuff that you buy isn't always what it claims
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to be. It's such an unregulated thing that not a
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: lot of people are actually testing a lot of these products.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And you never know what is going to be in them. Exactly.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Another reason why we wanted to talk about this today
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: where Eddie and I were saying like, some are substances.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: What could we do? What's different? And I was like, dude,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: boner pills. Let's do this.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, exactly that. We're jumping into it. You
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: think about gas station drugs. That's like number one. A
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: sketchy erectile dysfunction pill. It's like black rhino and it's
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: a pill that's big as fuck that you just can't
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: imagine swallowing. And it's just right there next to the
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: cashier if he's asking me if I want a bag
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: for five cents, right? Like I'm just trying to buy
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: a Diet Coke or something and then a pink boner
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: pill is right there. And it really has got us thinking.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Like there's a way bigger story to it. Justin talked
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: about it a little bit. But there is a much
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: bigger story to this. So if we just want to
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: start with a definition, a gas station drug, a GSD
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: as we will refer to it, either one, GSD or
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: gas station drug, it's essentially a psychoactive, unregulated, or semi-legal
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: substances that are sold over the counter at convenience stores,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: smoke shops, and gas stations. They sit in this basically
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: regulatory gray area, which is ripe for being taken advantage of.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: They aren't federally scheduled controlled substances, so we've talked about
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: this before, where federally they have different types of scheduled
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: drugs that refers to either their medicinal purposes or medicinal uses,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: and their level and possibility of addiction. Does that sound
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: about right, Justin? Somewhere in there, like that's basically what
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the federal drug levels are.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're right. There is a ton of gray
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: area around this stuff where it's not like technically illegal.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And a lot of these things are so new or
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: we don't know enough about them. People haven't brought it
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: up with like the FDA. And so they go unregulated
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and they're changing all the time so that it's, It's
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: kind of like a drug whack-a-mole. If the government figures
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: one out and says, let's ban it, then a year
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: later there's two other random ones that take its place
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: that are very similar.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they change the compounds a little bit or
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: they switch things up and that basically buys them more
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: time to not be impacted anymore. Oftentimes manufacturers will label
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: them as dietary supplements or energy boosters or even research
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: chemicals so that they can skirt around federal laws. And,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of course, if you're an adult that's listening to this,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you've probably been to a gas station a time or
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: two in your life. So here's something that's going on
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that you may not have noticed. Before we continue, I'll
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: ask you this. This gets asked a lot on TikTok,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: so I'll ask you. Justin, if you stop at a
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: gas station, what snacks are you picking up? What's your go-to?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: You know... I am just an old man at heart,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: so I love a good bag of salted peanuts. That's cool.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: That's my go-to road snack. And then if I really
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: want some candy or something, I'll get some Reese's Peanut
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Butter Cups.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Nice. How about you?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: What are your go-tos?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Definitely some kind of diet soda. Diet Dr. Pepper is
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: always clutch. Coke Zero, those are good ones. Sometimes I
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: shouldn't do it. We're getting older. I also listened to
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: an episode of Science Versus where they really talked about it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't be drinking energy drinks, but once in a while
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I get like a zero sugar Red Bull or a
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: less sugar one. Snack wise, I mean, peanut M &
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Ms are like.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the ones that I see on TikTok where
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: they're asking, they're typically asking like big football players. So
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: they're like, they've got big. Big snack orders because they've
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: got to feed a big, strong body. Oh, yeah. Anyway,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: that's snacks in case anyone ever wants to buy us anything.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: We will start with our first one. I'm going to
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: butcher the name. What is it? Tianeptine? Yeah, I think
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: you got it. That's cool. This is also known as
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: gas station heroin. So this is a substance. It's a
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: chemical originally developed as an atypical antidepressant in Europe, but
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: it's unapproved in the U.S. At high doses, it binds
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to mu opioid receptors, which produces a euphoric high and
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: intense opioid-like dependence slash withdrawal. When I looked up what
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: does this look like in the stores or in the
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: gas stations, smoke shops, that kind of thing, I feel
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: like it actually looked familiar. It's often sold as a
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: product called Zaza Red, Neptune's Fix, or TD Red. So
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: if you look it up, you might actually see a
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: couple of things. You're like, oh, I think I've actually
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: seen that. Never paid too much attention to it, but
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it's gas station heroin is what it basically is.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because heroin is an opioid and this is also
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: an opioid. So it acts on the similar receptors. So
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: across the country, there's been a huge spike in the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: amount of cases that poison centers are seeing from TNFD
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and overdoses. and severe withdrawal cases, too. This has actually
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: prompted state bans or severe restrictions in 15 states, including Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: And Virginia.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Not Oregon, Colorado, or Wyoming.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: If we wanted to make an inference, we can probably
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: assume that those states may struggle with opioid use maybe
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: more than other states what do you.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Think for sure well and i know that a lot
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of the opioid epidemic uh the southern states especially like
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: west virginia and that which is surprising and they're not
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: on that list but they struggled with a lot of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: that stuff too so i think there are a lot
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: of people still recovering from the opioid epidemic who are
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: looking for a legal opioid that they can buy to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: come down from and not have to get the prescription
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: substances Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And we'll reference it a little later, but I think
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: really that's a big part. We'll joke around and like,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: you know, laugh at some of the names and stuff,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: but that is a big part to why gas station
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: drugs are still a thing. People know that there's risks
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and maybe they don't know, but people know that these
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: are not perfect or amazing, but ultimately like these do
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: end up being like a cheaper, more affordable alternative to
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: maybe like traditional medicine and can be helpful for people.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: So ultimately like, there's a place for it because of
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: other underlying factors. Yeah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: And from what we know about substance use, that's usually
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: what's going on with all substances, right? Like there's a
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: certain level of discomfort in the emotions that you feel
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: and wanting to medicate them and self-medicate them. So yeah, like, yeah,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I like your point. We'll joke about some of the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: crazy names. It's fun to say boner pills, but I mean,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: there are serious problems and that come from these substances
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and these. So yes, we like to be lighthearted on
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: the show, but they're serious problems.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And ultimately, I mean, the FDA, the, the feds,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: they have bigger fish to fry when it comes to is,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: is the, the boner pill across the street at plaid pantry.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Is that really what they want to focus on? No,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: it's not worth the use of their effort and time, but. Anyway,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: we'll go to the next one. This one you actually
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: might be more familiar with. And if you drive down
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: any type of area where there are some maybe smoke
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: shops or convenience stores or gas stations, it's kratom. Kratom
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and 7-OH, I believe, are related to each other. The
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: 7-OH stands for 7-hydroxymitrogene. So kratom is a tropical tree
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: native to Southeast Asia. And it acts as a mild
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: stimulant at low doses and similarly to the other one.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: acts as an opioid-like sedative at high doses. So as
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: bad as this is, it's actually escalated to the point
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: where manufacturers now isolate and concentrate the 7-HO part of it.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: This is a potent alkaloid found in trace amounts in Kratom.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So these concentrated 7-O-8, yeah, the concentrate of it acts
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: as a powerful, full-acting opioid agonist. So they've taken it
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a step further. Kratom, when I was Just getting out
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: of grad school and becoming a therapist and specifically working
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: with substance use treatment, kratom was a problem. And now
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: we've gotten to a bigger problem. It hasn't gotten any better.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And now we have bigger problems. Yeah.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: And it is significantly more. more powerful than the original Kratom,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the 70H. And yeah, that's where a lot of these
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: companies are moving to because it is such a stronger
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: high and more addictive potential too. So it's amazing how
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: quickly these companies adapt to try and find the most
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: addictive substances to make as much money as possible.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they know if they have a customer, it's
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: not going to be a one-time customer most likely. It's
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: going to be repeat customers. And how do we get
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: people to be repeat customers? Unfortunately, you get them addicted
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: to it. Looking at you, nicotine companies.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of the nicotine company playbook, right?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: It sure is.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I know this kind of had its heyday and it's
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: still growing, especially that super concentrated form of Kratom. I
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: surprisingly don't see a lot of kids doing Kratom. I think,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: especially where I live in Cheyenne, technically weed is illegal,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: but weed is so easily accessible because you just have
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: to drive 45 minutes down to Colorado and like so
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: many kids and young people find a friend, they go
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: hit up a dispensary and then they just flood it
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: all back. So I think weed is so accessible that
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: things like Kratom aren't as popular as Are you seeing
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: this in your kids in Oregon?
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not either. And I think, I mean, exactly to
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: your point, weed is extremely legal in Oregon. So like
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you can definitely get it pretty easily. And I think,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I think kids are more focused on either marijuana use
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: or nicotine at this point. And something like Kratom's not,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: it's not scratching that itch. They got other things that
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: they can use. Yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So for sure.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Has been a problem. It seems to definitely be more
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: of an adult thing.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: For sure, and those ones struggling with opioid addiction, that's
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: kind of like a way that they can get that fix. Yeah.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Up next, we have a substance called phenibut, or I
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: honestly had not heard about this before reading about it,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: but more often known as nootropic, it is a central
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: nervous system depressant developed in Russia, so you know it's legit.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: As an anti-anxiety agent, it acts on GABA-B receptors, so
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: similar to GHB, or GHB is essentially like Rufi's, right?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Or baclofen, which is a muscle relaxant. So some dangers
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: with Phenibut are that it can have a rapid tolerance buildup.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So you start it, and before you know it, you're
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: having to do a lot more to get the same fix,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the same hype. And withdrawal can trigger some severe anxiety, hallucinations, psychosis,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and seizures. So one of the things I had learned
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: in medical school and residency was that usually withdrawal is
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: all the opposite effects of what the high is. So
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: if it helps with anxiety, when you're withdrawing from it,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: anxiety is through the roof.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then what do you do to get anxiety
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: to go away? You use more. But because you just
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: talked about the tolerance is, is rough on this one.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: You use a ton more to not be anxious. It just,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: it's a, it's a nasty cycle.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: One that you've probably also have heard of though, is
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: there a different one that our listeners probably heard of? Uh, is, uh,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: it's hemp derived slash synthetic cannabinoid products. Uh, so like
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: not weed, uh, But yes, weed, but not weed is
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: basically where we're at with these. And this is one
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: of those ones that's really capitalized over loopholes and has
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: been able to continually change recipes so that they can
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: continue to be sold. So basically, these products are really
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: capitalized from the 2018 Farm Bill loophole. So this bill
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: defined legal hemp strictly by limiting Delta 9 THC to 0.3%.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: This then left a legal oversight that allowed chemists to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: process CBD into other intoxicating isomers like Delta HTHC. This
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: then allowed manufacturers to legally sell intoxicating synthetic weed products
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: at gas stations and smoke shops without dispensary regulations. So
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: in Oregon and Colorado, where Justin's at, and you were
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: in Washington too, so you're like the weed capital or
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: weed mecca of the United States. How lucky are we?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Dispensaries are very regulated. They are on their ass, each
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of these states. They're very on their ass about it.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to these things, the synthetic cannabinoids,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the synthetic weed products, they're not as regulated, and you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: can pretty much do kind of whatever the fuck you
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: want with it. And what's crazy is these get sold
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: in very common or easy to understand names like Delta
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: 8 THC. People understand THC as weed. Delta 10 THC.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: They switch it up a little bit. HHC and THC-O.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: And these are often sold as brightly packaged gummies, vape carts, pre-rolls,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: and flour, which is the same shit you can get
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: at the dispensary. So they have very much taken advantage
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: of this loophole. and are essentially selling illegal weed legally,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: but the weed's not really illegal. It's all fucked.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and surprisingly enough, where I lived in Nebraska, this
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: is very common. There were Delta A weed shops all
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: over the city, and you could just pop into them
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and buy them whenever you wanted. The tricky part here
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: is that they're pretty dangerous because there are... loopholes that
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: they go through so this isn't as regulated as it
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: should be and there can be lack of testing for
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: heavy metals residual solvents or synthetic contaminants you know some
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: batches of neptune's fix were found contaminated with synthetic cannabinoids
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: like k2 and spice so yeah this is essentially just
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: trying to look like weed by spraying hemp with like
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: essentially chemically manufactured THC so yeah yeah not that.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And it's well and you think of it too like
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: how much does something like like fentanyl and like these
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: these fake like ADHD pills and stuff like really stress
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: us out because you don't know what's actually going to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: be in them and I bring up fentanyl because a
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: lot of these times these pills get pressed with like
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: fentanyl because it's a lot cheaper than other other drugs
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: and then you get kids and adults that overdose and
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: they didn't realize what was going to happen same thing
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: with this but you just bought it from Again, plaid
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: pantry down the street and you had no clue that
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: they were, it was all types of contaminated. It makes
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: it hard. It's sketchy. It is sketchy and it is dangerous.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This next one, this, we're at the boner pills.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: So just be ready. Boner pills. This one is one
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: that the gas stations always seem to have in stock.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: They're always, always ready to sell them. Uh, This actually
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: might be one of the more dangerous ones we're going
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to talk about because these are very unregulated and are
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: found to have things in them that they should not have.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the time they have wild names
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: like Rhino 69, stiff rocks, and kangaroos. Or kangaroo, just
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: one kangaroo. It's probably just one big bill. And these
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: are actually, again, one of the most dangerous items that
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a gas station can sell and especially because it's unregulated.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So while they are being marketed as a, quote, 100%
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: natural herbal supplement, they are constantly found to be tainted
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: with unregulated pharmaceutical drugs, drugs that you would need a
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: prescription for. So the primary reason these pills work, quote, work,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: isn't because they have horny goat weed or ginseng, like
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: they say, listed on the package. What ends up happening
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: and what the FDA has found when they have analyzed
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: these is they routinely find undeclared, what is it, sildephanil?
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Sildenafil, that's in Viagra.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Sildenafil. Yeah, it's the active ingredient in Viagra. which is
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the active ingredient in Cialis. And if you remember back
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: in the day, whatever the fuck his name was in
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the commercials, he's always like smiling. Be like this guy.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: He's always happy. The Viagra commercials, that's what's in there.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Viagra is in these pills, but they don't tell you
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: it is. And for people that have heart problems or
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: people that have issues with their overall health, that is
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: not good. And sometimes the doses are up to two
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: to three times higher than what a doctor would have
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: prescribed you in the first place. So imagine you're someone
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: with a heart pill or a heart problem, And you're like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I need one of these because I'm about to go
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: do my business with somebody. And then you take it
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: and then you fucking die because you just took a
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: pill that you thought was just going to help you
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: out for a little bit but turned out to be
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: more potent than what a doctor could have even prescribed you.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Scary.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Super scary.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just shocks me that a lot of these
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: are made overseas and so there's not a lot of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: regulation and they're just shipped into the United States and
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that's how they can put those strong pharmaceuticals, Viagra and Tadalafil,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it's all just going into these. So you never know
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: quite what you're getting. It could be absolutely nothing and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: like herbs, or it could be a strong pharmaceutical. You
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: just don't know. And a lot of time, it could
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: be a lot of horny goat weed. Plus, you know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I've seen things in the past and read stories about this,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: how sometimes companies will get in trouble for this. And
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: so they'll just like change the ingredients or change what
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: they say. So like the ingredients, even if you're buying
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the same brand could be different. every time you buy it,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: depending on what the company wants to do. So because
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: active drugs aren't listed on the package, consumers have no
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: idea what they're actually getting into, what they're buying. So yeah,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you're like, Eddie mentioned it. If if someone has heart problems,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: it can cause serious major problems, including death. And the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: independent testing of these pills has also turned up toxic
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: levels of heavy metals, unlisted pain relievers like Tylenol, which
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: can cause liver damage if you're combining it with alcohol,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the synthetic compounds chemically modified just enough to evade standard
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: drug tests, and then manufactured in gray market facilities overseas
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: with zero quality control. So yeah, it's sketchy.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But we talked about it a little bit. How
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: did we even get to this point? How did we
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: come to this point where this is like a cultural,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: societal understanding that the back wall of Plaid Pantry, shout
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: out Plaid Pantry, the back wall just has these random
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: drugs hanging out that I could just buy. How did
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: we get here, right? Like many things, we got to
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: think about it. A lot of different factors. The first one.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to mention was the Dietary Supplement Health
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and Education Act, D-A-S-H-E-A of 1994, reclassified dietary supplements so
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: that they could be sold without pre-marking FDA testing or
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: needing to prove safety or showing any medical efficacy. So
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: this effectively shifted the burden of proof onto the government,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: requiring the FDA to prove a product is dangerous and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: cause severe public harm before it can be pulled from shelves. Again, essentially,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Unless this is causing any problems or killing people left
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: and right, there's really not a reason for the FDA
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: to look into it. Like Justin mentioned, we actually wrote
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: it down. It's chemical whack-a-mole. You just don't know because
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of all the stuff that's going on. Manufacturers are operating
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: in these legal gray areas, and they market these as
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: products that are unregulated supplements or, again, research chemicals. So
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: the FDA really has no authority to inspect or stop
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: them before they can hit the retail shelves. And by
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the time they do, things change. Chemical recipe is different.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: They rename it. They alter the ingredients. They're just always
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: one step ahead of the FDA. Another thing that we
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier is just the Farm Bill, the 2018 Farm
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Bill loophole. Again, gray area. There's a market for it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: There's people for it. If you're going to make money,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: people are going to find ways to keep selling it. Yeah, and.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of gas stations and small grocery stores and
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: smoke shops, they make very small margins on gas and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: prepackaged snacks. So things like this and synthetic cannabinoids, kratom extracts,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and novelty energy shots can have huge markups between 200%
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and 1,000%, making them some of the more profitable items
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: in the store. So they're making money. The companies making
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: all these products are making a lot of money and
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: just kind of classic capitalism. They're preying on people and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: preying on people's natural tendencies towards addiction to make as
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: much money as possible. Yeah.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Think of it this way, too. Unless a, like, convenience
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: store or a little shop sells, like, food and, like,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: other things that would draw people in without needing the
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: drug part, they don't have a ton of people in
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: there all the time. So they have to kind of
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: make their money somehow. And that's unfortunate. Like, that's what
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: they kind of turn to because it helps. Yeah.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: So, to a more... sociological standpoint or viewpoint, there are
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a number of contributing factors that we see here. And
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: we mentioned these a little bit earlier of like self-medication.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: People often turn to these products for things like pain relief, anxiety, insomnia,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: or fatigue when they lack affordable access to healthcare, health insurance,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: or prescription medications. I would even throw like, yeah, depression,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: suicide thoughts. Like there's so many reasons why people would
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: use these types of things. And because they're buying it
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: at a reputable gas station there's like a bad pantry
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: um there's assumed safety right like if you're buying this
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you would think like oh the government wouldn't let them
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: sell this unless it was safe right but those protections
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: are not in place so consumers assume that it's going
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to be safe when really it has never really been
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: tested so it's impossible to.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Know yeah Another thing to consider is that a lot
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: of these things often bypass drug tests. So if you're
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: someone who struggles with substance use and you finally got
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a job and you're able to potentially get yourself out
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: of the cycle that you've been in of not having
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: a job, not being able to pay for things, not
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: being able to take care of yourself and or your family,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: maybe you use something else that's not going to get
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: picked up on the drug test. So because many of
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: these newly synthesized compounds like Phenibut or 7-OH don't show
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: up on a standard five or 10 panel workplace drug screen,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: it seems easier to take them. It seems like a
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: better thing. Like, wow, I'm finally going to get a
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: job and I can finally care for myself. I still
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: have the substance use issue, but I don't have to
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: fully give it up because I can try something else.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: That's a big part of it. I also want to
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: talk about like the shame factor, especially for the boner
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: pills or the sex pills. Customers buy these at gas
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: stations precisely because they offer an anonymous cash only purchase
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and it bypasses the embarrassing conversations with the doctor and
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: And it's a dynamic that these bad actors, unfortunately, the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: companies that work in these gray areas, they exploit. They
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: know it's a lot easier to walk down the street
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: than it is to make a doctor's appointment. And I mean,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: that's also a reflection on our healthcare system, but they
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: know it's a lot easier to go down the street
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: to buy something like this than it is to make
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: an appointment, go to the appointment, talk about it, maybe
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: have a follow-up appointment because they got to do some
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: blood tests and check on some things, then maybe get
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: prescribed something in three weeks. Like that's a And then
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: you've got to go get it, but then maybe your
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: pharmacy doesn't have it or maybe it costs a lot
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: of money. Yeah, there's a shame factor to it too,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: and this offers up– it cuts down barriers to access
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: for a lot of people.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And speaking of cutting down barriers of access, these things
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: are usually pretty cheap. They're available locally 24-7 at a
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: gas station, which is always open. Usually you don't need
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: an ID or verification to buy some of these things. Yes,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned it. No doctor's visits or dispensary cards.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: And so there's lots of reasons why it's easy and accessible.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And if things are opioids or addictive substances, they're readily
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: available and they're cheap, they're going to be used in
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: our society pretty frequently.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: They're going to sell, for sure. But yeah, we just...
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I want to take the time, bring some awareness to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the next time you go buy your peanut butter cups
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: or your salted peanuts or your peanut M & Ms
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: or your Diet Coke. There's a reason why there's these
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: kind of sketchy looking drugs that are next to the
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: gas station attendant or the cashier. And we know that
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: some of the names are funny and we kind of
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: poke fun at some of them. But there is a
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: lot of factors at play that have gotten us to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: this point that essentially are working in harmony with To
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: keep these products stocked and consumed by the general public.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: It's one of those just kind of like if you
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: don't know, you don't know. So we just wanted you
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: all to know, to have an idea, to know kind
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: of what's maybe going on behind the scenes and maybe
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: even your own community.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the one that. I was most familiar with
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: growing up was Salvia. Did you ever hear about this?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Did you ever do any Salvia? I did not. I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: had sketchy friends. I remember because my friends really wanted
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: to try it. It was like, oh, it's legal. You
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: can just buy it from a head shop. And so
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: everyone was thinking like, oh, if it's legal, it can't
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: be that bad. And then I saw people do it
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and completely go out of their minds, like not know anything.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: who they were, what was going on. And I was
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: thinking like, wow, this is clearly way worse than weed.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: But it was another one of those legal gray areas
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: where it should have been illegal, but it wasn't. And
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: then kids are always looking for ways to get high, right?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And so I had friends in high school do an
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: air duster. Did you ever see anyone do this? This
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: is a real popular trend. And so, man, it just
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: seems like there are so many things that you can
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: use To go on that train, a can of whipped
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: cream kids can use to get high. It's just whack-a-mole.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: There's just too many to fight. Yeah.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I have another one. You're making me think about this.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the whole thing with bath salts? Yes.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: That was the whole thing, too. And I just looked
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: it up. Same thing right here. According to the Google
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Gemini overview, it says because... So these are synthetic, man-made
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: addictive stimulant drugs that mimic drugs like cocaine or methamphetamine.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: They're dangerous and can cause severe psychological and physical harm,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and they're illegal. It says they are not sold in
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: standard retail stores. They have historically appeared in online or
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: in smoke shops or at convenience stores. Under deceptive packaging,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: the law enforcement heavily restricts and bans the specific chemicals involved.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: But again... You can kind of skirt around that. And so,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's another one that, you know, popular culture.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember, like, years ago, there was, like,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: the zombie bath salts where people were taking them and, like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: attacking people and, like, eating their face and shit. Crazy.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Wild.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, perhaps not the most positive and uplifting episode.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: We've ever done.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Information.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Knowledge is power. I just told... students today, get to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the second period class. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: It's good to know things if you're not familiar with them.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: And you know what? I think after this, I'm going
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: to be asking more about this. And I'm always asking
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: about The big ones, drugs, alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine are
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the ones I ask kids a lot about. But I
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: think I'm going to start asking more about gas station
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: pills and Kratom and all that stuff just because maybe
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen a lot of it because I haven't
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: been asking enough.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what? I mean, you know this. I'm
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: teaching intro to diagnosis right now. We're going to start
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: to go over biopsychosocial assessment. That might be something I
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: should remember to throw in there because there is going
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: to be a substance use part and maybe ask a
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: little more than just the big ones.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: We're better now because we talked about this.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: That's why we do the show. So we can learn too.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, we appreciate y'all being here for listening. Thank you
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: as always. You know where to find us on social
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: media at MillennialMHC, MillennialMHC.com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. A five-star review
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: really helps us get to a new listener. So we
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: appreciate y'all if you can. We'll be back next time.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: We'll see what we talk about. We have a couple
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: ideas to be on the lookout for that. And remember,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: go Raiders. Take care of y'all mentals. It's football season, baby.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Woo! We also forgot to talk about Crocodile. Have you
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: ever heard about this?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: On the next episode of MMHC, we're going to talk
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: about Crocodile. We'll see you then! The content provided in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: this podcast is for informational purposes only and does not
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: constitute legal, medical, or professional advice. Always seek the advice
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: of a qualified professional for any legal, medical, or mental
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: health concern. The hosts and the producers disclaim any liability
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: for any direct, indirect, incidental, consequential, Thank you. Thank you.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you.