Latest / Auto Collabs / The Art of Human Connection in the Data-Driven Automotive Industry with Carol Marshall

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The Art of Human Connection in the Data-Driven Automotive Industry with Carol Marshall · Auto Collabs

0:00
Sorry, I wasn't listening to any of that. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs I feel like we can relate, maybe your, your wife feels the same way we do right now. Wow. We can relate. We can. That is-
0:17
Skiddly da [laughs] Back- I'm backing up. Everyone back up. [laughs] Hey, do you guys... Speaking of that, did you guys notice, I mean, we wear a lot of black, but today we really have a lot of black.
0:27
[laughs] We are really- Yeah... in that vibe, for sure. We got the hat. I feel like it's cool. Yeah.
0:31
We're in the midst, we're in the midst of this, kind of like, we're gonna announce a lot more about it soon, but in the midst of this, like, reinvention of, like, the More Than Cars Media Network. Yeah.
0:41
And I feel like this is, we're channeling that right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The two of you so aptly and promptly point out when I'm not wearing black.
0:49
And I will have to admit I'm grateful for that because I, when I'm not wearing black, I feel like I've lost a bit of my identity. [laughs] It is weird. I don't know what happens.
0:58
I literally- I, so, I, guys, I have a purple, like a, a, a, like heathered purple, like, pullover thing- [laughs]... that I wear, like, I don't know, a few times a year. My kids- I think I've actually seen this.
1:12
It's, like, thin... my, I know, my kids call it my Easter shirt. [laughs] Like, they know, like- [laughs]... he's passed that level. Like, you wear that at Easter. [laughs] I, I, I try.
1:24
I don't know, it just feels wrong. I gotta say something. I don't know how many of these we've done now. Dozens and dozens. Oh, yeah. Um, I'm just noticing that the framing of both of your shots
1:38
are so clean, it actually looks like you're sitting side by side in the same office. Which way am I looking? Like- I don't know. Yeah. Which way do I have to look?
1:46
[laughs] Like, because you've got the bookshelf with Steve Jobs. Mm-hmm. And, and your bookshelf has black lines. And then the black line in StreamYard that separates- Oh, it does...
1:56
both your videos just looks like- And the purple look is kinda the same. Which is great if I reach over right now and I pull a guitar off frame, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And grab Tim's guitar.
2:05
[laughs] You just hand it to me and I gotta guitar. And then I start playing it. We need a divider down here. We need to do this.
2:09
We need, like, a bookshelf separating me, 'cause I'm on the bottom, to make it look like I'm- Yeah... under the one. I, that's all weird.
2:16
No, I mean- I think, I think this is exactly why people tuned into this podcast today. That's exactly why. They don't wanna talk about anything. And to hear smart things. Oh, that. Sometimes.
2:24
Well, that's why we have guests. That's why we have guests. That's why, yeah. There you go. That's why we have guests. Today, uh, Carol Marshall, longtime friend.
2:31
Uh, we get to have a conversation with her, uh, with her again about, you know, I'm sure we're gonna talk about AI. We're gonna talk about all the things.
2:37
They've been on the cutting edge of that, uh, for a long time now. So, hope you enjoy this conversation with our friend, Carol Marshall. [upbeat music] Carol, it's so good to spend a few minutes with you again.
2:49
I feel like it's, it's been too long. Yes. Thank you. I'm excited to talk to you guys again, especially this time of year. So many exciting things coming up, so I appreciate the time. Yes, this is great.
3:01
So, um, there's this one, like, we always send out, before these shows, we're like, "Hey, what, what, what are you thinking about? Um, you know, what, what's fun?"
3:09
And you said you wanted to start the Grandparents in Automotive group. Yes. [laughs] And that, that just got me in the feels, 'cause I've been joking that I'm in, I have my grandpa vibes today.
3:19
I got my cardigan, I got a candle lit over here. That is so fun. [laughs] Tell, tell us about your big plans for the GIA. [laughs] Yeah, the GIA of the automotive field. [laughs] Yeah. I'm all about it.
3:31
So, it's so funny bec- uh, I had my first grandchild at the end of May. Oh.
3:37
And then at the most recent V20 meeting, we were sitting around the room, best personal or professional moment, and so many others became grandparents this year. Ah.
3:47
And, um, just when you hear all of us gush and go on and on, and then- [laughs]... and then later when you're in business conversations, you're like, there is definitely wisdom that comes from being two steps away.
4:01
So, you see your product now working on the next product, and you're like, "Oh, I-" [laughs] "... now I learned the life." Oh, yeah. You know? So- [laughs] You're watching it, you're like, "Wait, was I...?
4:13
No, I never did that. There's no way I did that." Yeah, you did. It definitely- Yeah, we all did... needs to be a thing. Yeah. You know, s- Yeah. It's funny.
4:22
G- well, the fact that it's three letters means Brian Pash will get really excited about it. [laughs] And we love the acronyms in automotive. Um, but I, I do- It's true... I actually do think that's a great idea.
4:32
I've been thinking about this concept of parenting lately, and not, even if you don't have children of your own, the fact that there's this element of parenting, and, you know, in business we call it mentoring, but a lot of times it's actually parenting.
4:45
Yes. Right. You know? And so I think the grandparents in auto, um, I'm a, I'd be a full booster of that group if you get it going, even though- [laughs]... I'm not a member yet, but I aspire to be a member- Awesome...
4:55
of that group. [laughs] Awesome. Very, very awesome. Well, we won't fail with, we can't fail with that kind of support, so.
5:00
When, uh, you know, I, I think, okay, you said something and you said product, but it actually kinda relates to obviously what we think about when we think about the things that are available to auto retailers to enhance their business.
5:14
And, you know, seeing what you make and how it interacts with the next thing is- Mm-hmm... is a lot of times extremely important in business.
5:23
So I can see how, like, relating that, especially in the Vendor 20 groups, and, and as a vendor yours- yourself or a partner to dealers, there's, like, the product that you sell- Yeah...
5:35
but then there's the product that it creates, whether in business efficiency or interactivity or the way that a dealer- Right... works with it. Like, maybe- Right... extrapolate how you've
5:47
seen the similarities in, like, being a grandparent and, like, learning how to, like, take the, go the next level with a grandchild- Yeah...
5:55
as, as, as compared to, like, yeah, we have this product, but it has another layer to it. YeahI love that question. Wow. That's magical, Kyle.
6:03
It's almost like I didn't give you that question, but that's a great question. [laughs] So, um, I mean, we've been doing what we do for 17 years, and it's all about the conversation, and it's about the people.
6:15
It's unscripted, right? And so that's our child. And so now you look around and you're like, "What are other people's kids? And, and how do we relate those together to make real magic for dealers, for our customers?"
6:32
And one thing that struck us here is we know conversations. We know how to build trust with shoppers so they schedule that service appointment or buy that car. But what are other vendors doing?
6:45
What are other businesses... You know CDP? There's a great three-letter- Huh. [laughs]... acronym that's- Heard of that... a little bit big right now. It's, it's making its way around, you know? Yeah.
6:55
So CDPs are great at collecting first-party data, and then they can segment it in different audiences. Great. Now dealers have a list. They can market. They can have a marketing agency market to it, whatever.
7:07
Um, we're in the process of launching in a week or two with a third-party site where they get the contact, but then that comes to us to foster that relationship, build trust, and really make that an opportunity and hopefully an appointment for the dealer.
7:29
And so when you think about CDPs and their segmented audiences, who better to have a campaign go out and have those responses come to but us? That's what we're accustomed to doing. Mm-hmm.
7:42
And so now we're not just having conversations, the first conversation on someone's website, which is vitally important.
7:51
But let's say for those shoppers that had to push that, that purchase a month or two or three, now they're coming back into conversation, and we can get back into what's important to them, what's their timeline, what's their situation, send them that integrated digital retailing link with all the different partners that we have, and really get them on the road to making that purchase.
8:14
And, and I think that's kind of our grandchild, if you will.
8:18
And where we're gonna be focused in 2025 is how do we lend our processes and our people to these other entities in the industry so that the ultimate winner is the dealership and the consumer who can feel good about revisiting that decision maybe that they thought they had to put off.
8:39
So. Well, let's talk... I think, I think
8:41
the, the concept of a lead coming in and being handled by some level of automation or AI is just like you can't walk half a step without ha- having someone talk about it or present a solution for it.
8:55
And the reality is that very little, if any, AI is ready to handle an entire thing, right? It, it has to be babysat. It has to be... I mean, people who, who try to deploy set it and forget it, right?
9:09
Everything feels gross about it, right? Yes. It feels spammy. It feels... The customer experience actually goes down, the data shows. Yeah. So, I mean, what are, what are your thoughts on that?
9:18
Because obviously you've always been this very, like, personal type minded company in the way you deploy technology. You've kind of been on the cusp.
9:26
But, like, what are your thoughts toward how people are deploying AI right now and just in general the level of babysitting it needs? It's really ookie. Um, [laughs] um- What did you just say? What was that word? Ookie?
9:38
It's very ookie. Ookie. [laughs] Ookie. So I go on dealers' websites, and they have an AI solution for messaging, and the first box that comes out, "May I have your first name, last name, email, and phone number?"
9:51
Can you imagine doing that on, on your dealership showroom floor? [laughs] Like, why are you doing that? That, that makes me wanna pull my hair out.
10:01
Um, the second thing is we've been working in our own AI product space for a year now. Um, something super interesting is AI cannot count. So...
10:14
And when you think about AI is, for the most part, large language models- Mm... it makes sense. But AI can't say two plus three is five. It doesn't understand that.
10:29
It can say there's several or there's many, but to get a precise number... So the AI we've worked on is called Theo. It's a digital assistant for our agents.
10:42
And we wanted it to be able to come back and say, "We have five Ford Explorers that would fit your needs," but it can't get the number right.
10:51
So it can come back and say, "We have several," or, "We have this one," for our agents. Um, and that is helpful. It sign... It saves time. When you say agent, you mean a person? Yes, a person. Okay. Human.
11:05
It helps our humans save- Human agent. Yeah, I know, because now, now yeah, now AI agents, [laughs] like right, helps- Yeah. Our AI is actual individuals that help- AI actual individual. Yeah. I love that.
11:15
It helps our, um, humans save time. And so, um, I love AI for that. There's several different little ways it is an assistant to our humans, and that's... It's still not a set it and forget it. Oh, my gosh.
11:28
It's, i- if you're... AI is no more set it and forget it than a human is. If you can imagine hiring someone, sitting them at your front desk, and never giving them another lick of training- [laughs]...
11:40
you would never, ever, ever dream of doing that. Well, a lot, a lot of people know exactly what that's like. [laughs] They, they do though. That's a normal thing. [laughs] It's called turnover. [laughs] Fair point.
11:51
Fair point. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, hopefully we're not doing... Like, like the reason why you go from GPT-3 to GPT-4 to 4o toTo, you know, e- each of these iterations, and Gemini is con- constantly evolving.
12:06
Like, it takes training, more data, more refined data, more processes to understand how the data's coming in. Um, you know, even things like understanding how to inspect the data. Like- Yeah...
12:19
you know, wh- when you say, like, "This is how many cars are available for you," I think that there's a, there's a point that you can get to that.
12:25
But it's like, recognizing the patterns in the data is also extremely important because, you know, when you look at, like,
12:33
the, the, the comparison is always made to the, you know, purchasing anything in an e-com scenario, right, and, and data structures that are a lot more limited, right? Right.
12:43
When, when we're dealing with things like service appointments that have, um, multi-tiers of capacity rankings, and then- Right...
12:50
you look at, like, a, like, a vehicle, understanding the data structure of a vehicle because it's VIN-based and not SKU-based- Right...
12:58
totally changes how, like, that human has to introspectively understand what the AI is, is drawing out of the data, uh- Yeah... at, at the end.
13:09
Um, you know, you, you were kind of alluding earlier to, like, the conversation and how, how we're, how we're drafting the conversation and, and I w- I was actually, uh, I wanted to talk to you about a little bit.
13:21
Uh, I had someone on a LinkedIn post a few days ago, um, just say, like, "We've got this massive overload of communication endpoints coming from our dealers."
13:32
And, and, and what I'm hearing you say is like, it's not just the data endpoints, but it's the type of communications, like creating a centralized place for all of that to happen, live, and flow- Right...
13:43
in and out and be aware of. Can you speak to how you're handling and how you're thinking about, like, the, the single central communication point for every consumer interaction with a brand or dealer? Yeah.
13:56
Uh, uh, look, company spends millions and billions of dollars on marketing, you know, from the OEMs all the way down, on branding and, and putting out some kind of customer experience promise.
14:10
And then to just dump data points on these individual dealers, small dealers, large dealers, you know, depending on the size of their staff and the turnover that we just talked about, how in the world can they ever deliver on that?
14:24
Meanwhile, if you have a partner who is established, who has the longevity in very specific types of conversations, you know, what a treasure trove to take these data points and turn them into revenue.
14:40
Because at the end of the day, that's what the dealership is looking for, is increased share, increased CSI, increased revenue, and that's what we're focused on.
14:51
We understand, we study these conversations like it's bananas.
14:57
We have humans looking at the conversations, looking at the intonations and, and what is going on in the marketplace at that time and how the conversations may be changing.
15:09
But we also now have the help and the aid of AI to highlight certain things, certain parameters we've put in place, also to bring up those conversations and help train the team.
15:21
So what we're looking at for the future is, data's wonderful. I love data. I'm actually a very data-driven person. But, you know, love people as much as you love data is, is the thing. [laughs] And, and loving- Ah.
15:36
No, I'm just kidding. [laughs] That, that, that one'll get Kyle. He can do the cars, but the data thing's gonna trip him up.
15:41
[laughs] And that means loving your own team in store, you know, as well as loving that consumer that you've put this promise out.
15:50
I remember, look, I was in a dealership when we first got our website, and then I had corporate saying, "You had 11 people on your virtual lot yesterday morning." Great. [laughs] That's incredible. Who were they?
16:03
What did they look at? That's unbelievable. 11 people. You know? Yeah. Can you imagine? Wow. That's 11 opportunities. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you mentioned the consumer.
16:11
Um, people are making purchase decisions in, in a variety of ways, but
16:17
collecting data in a way that considers how they're making decisions, how they learn, how they interact, is a big part of how you structured the data, how you ingest it, how you sh- you know, think about it.
16:31
So from your perspective, h- walk us through how, how people are interacting, how they are learning in this native environment. So I, I loved also your post recently, Kyle, about g- websites are confusing.
16:48
People don't know how to navigate automotive websites. Mm. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. We forget- Automotive websites are confusing. A lot of other things are. Yeah. [laughs] They are.
16:58
And so, you know, the way that people are interacting is they want that response.
17:04
They want to know someone's with them on their little shopping journey at the, at the point that we're, we're meeting them, whether that's on a dealer site or a third-party site.
17:13
You know, it's why social media is so big, and you've gotta think about these generations. The largest purchasing generation are, is millennials, and they grew up online.
17:24
So they are online to do research, to find answers, and to connect. And just reading a brochure that an AI thing spits out doesn't check the box for them. Right.
17:38
And so they're like, "I just wanna know this," or, "Is this still available?" They want a real-time human answer.
17:48
When we set a service appointment, it's a 30% higher show rate than when the consumer sets it in the scheduling tool themselves. That's wild. Yeah. It's like you're committing to a person, though.
18:01
It's accountability, right? Yeah, it's the accountability there. Like accountability. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a $60 higher RO.On average, because- That's unb- that's the crazy part Strong...
18:12
we're asking about declined services, you know? To your point about looking in a service scheduling tool, it is a little c- those conversations are usually 20 minutes long. And so, of course, they're gonna show up.
18:25
They've just spent 20 minutes. That's a big investment for someone, um, with your dealership.
18:30
So, um, people are navigating the- Well, but I think that's a practical thing that someone can take away from this is, like, hey, why don't... Like, if, if the data shows that if customers communicate with a person and
18:48
do that for X amount of time about their service appointment, higher show rates, higher dollars per RO. Like- Yeah... get people more in conversations, whether it be phone calls or chats,
18:59
when you're thinking about, like, scheduling service. Maybe prioritize that. Do y- would you prefer to chat right now or schedule online? Um- Right...
19:08
and more people are probably gonna choose chat, and then you, like, i-i-increase the, the, the decision tree- Yeah... point and- Commitment... push people more to it. Yeah. Yeah.
19:19
So our, our product flip to text, people call into the dealership, and if they're on hold, they get the option, go to three, it changes it into a text conversation, right? Right.
19:30
We set a service appointment 90% of those conversations, and they're great conversations, and they go straight into the CRM and all the information.
19:40
So now the dealer's got, um, all of, all of the conversation right there for 'em. They've got their service appointment already scheduled. The service advisor doesn't need to call back.
19:50
Um, it's, it's been a huge product, too. Yeah, I think of that interaction. I just... Who was it? I was... It's on a trip.
19:58
I think maybe it was Avis, and they did a really terrible job after I flipped to de- to text, because- Oh... they flipped me to, to a text that didn't have a human. [laughs] And, and it couldn't solve my problem at all.
20:10
And so I had to call back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But, but I would- It's okay... I'm taking the option to flip to text every time where I have to wait more than, like, a few minutes. Of course. Of course.
20:20
It's like- But-... "Well, I tried to call, but..." Yeah. Well, and, and then you also talked about, so I'm, I'm right on the border. So I was born in '79, so I'm just, like, a- an older Gen X-er.
20:29
Um, but, but I benchmark- A younger Gen X. You're an older Gen- I'm sorry. Younger Gen X-er-... millennial... older millennial. Older millennial. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so, like, I get both sides of it.
20:40
And without a doubt, I would much rather not talk to someone, right? [laughs] If you ever wanna make sure I don't get a communication, leave me a voicemail, right? [laughs] Of course. Wow. Now, now, now since- Oh, no...
20:52
Apple starts giving me the text of the voicemail in a message for me- Yeah. Even nice voicemails. Talk slow enough. [laughs] But, but I say it... No, it's way better now. But, but because- Yeah...
21:01
I even, I even say it on my voicemail, right? Like- Yeah... "Send me a text. Don't leave a voicemail. I might ev- never hear it."
21:08
Well- But whenever I have the opportunity to move to that, if it's a more standard- Yeah... question and it's not, like, something that's in-depth, I'm, I'm going that way. Yeah.
21:16
And I think today's consumers are just, like you said, the millennials are buying the most things right now. And I- They, they are the biggest demographic.
21:23
I'm bad because I have my phone set, it doesn't even ring if I don't know your number. That's right. That's a great setting. And people text me, they're like, "Are you available?" I'm like, "Sure, give me a call."
21:32
And then the phone didn't ring, and then I have to explain to them. Oh.
21:36
[laughs] I didn't- I had that on for a long time, and then I turned it off because there were, like, a few that I, I wanted, but I was getting so many spam calls that- Yeah... I don't know. Yeah.
21:44
I don't know if I, I reset it from, from that point. [laughs] So- I know... you said moving, moving into 2025, right? You kinda have your heading. Where do you think we're gonna be landing by the end of 2025?
21:54
What is your vision for the shifts that the industry will make in the next 12 months? 'Cause there's a lot in the air right now. Yeah.
22:00
And I think, uh, uh, there will be several things that come to ground in the next 12 months. Yeah. What do you think those things will be?
22:07
I think education's gonna be huge for our industry because of all of those shifts.
22:13
I think education from the inside out, from within our dealership team, our sales professionals, our F&I professionals, I think all of them will be learning and getting better. I think processes will be tightened up.
22:25
Has to be. Um, I, I, uh, I think everything old is new again. So, you know, customer service, customer experience. I think that I do... I, I hope I see, like, a bridge.
22:41
I've al- We're already seeing some customers who wanted to play in AI land, and it was shiny and fun and did not work out so well.
22:51
And so for your AI-only messaging on your site, I do think that will lose its luster a bit, because you, you need those opportunities, and you need opportunities that drive revenue. It doesn't just drop- Mm-hmm...
23:07
name and number. Any- anybody will drop their name and number, because just like we explained, we don't have to answer the phone. So that's, who cares? You got an email and you got a phone number. It doesn't matter.
23:18
Do you have an opportunity where that person's willing and anxious and ready to do business with you? That's the focus. Yeah.
23:26
And that, in my opinion, every dealer should be focused on that, looking at your opportunities that walk in, that call, that are online. You have to. Yeah. Carol, that's a great exhortation as we end. Thank you so much.
23:42
As always, like, you're, you're just brimming with excitement for the things that are, like, right on the horizon for auto.
23:49
And thank you, uh, and, and to your entire team for always challenging and pushing back and creating net new things that, uh, dealers and other industry partners can be looking toward, um, as, as opportunities.
24:02
And, and thanks for joining us here on Auto Collapse. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. [upbeat music]All right. I like the re- the juxtaposition of AI being actual individuals. Yeah.
24:17
Well, and I mean, we know this at this point, especially because AI has definitely not gotten to the point of just, like, taking over jobs entirely. No.
24:26
Um, that, like, curation, the human interaction, it is- it's important when an AI is involved, but it's even more important when a large purchase, like a car, is involved, or a service where there's nuance and there's, you know, probably, like, uh, feelings coming into it from the person, and you have to perceive them in real time.
24:46
Probably? Like, all the time- Yeah... right? Especially when it has to do with service. And so I, I think that any company that is, like, overlaying one with the other in real time is winning, right?
25:00
'Cause you're creating efficiencies, but keeping that human, that human touch in. Um, so I'm grateful that companies, uh, like Active Engage are doing that. Yeah.
25:11
I mean, this, this for me is exactly why you tune into this show. It's to think ahead. It's to get ahead of the curve.
25:17
Like, if you're in a position where you're still feeling overwhelmed by AI, um, you said at first, Kyle, like, taking over your job. This is the kind of conversation you need to be a part of. Yep.
25:27
Luckily, we have conversations like this all the time. You're gonna s- see us wherever we are roaming around, whether it's NADA or a SoTu Con.
25:34
Um, these are the conversations we're having so you can get ahead of it so that you're not worried about, is AI gonna take my job? That you learn how to overlay it to create more efficiencies.
25:43
And this actually, now that I'm thinking about it, this goes back to something we talked about months and months and months ago, which is the thesis that AI will not replace the work that requires a soul. I don't know.
25:58
I don't think we can end any better than that. Snap on that ending, baby. Come on now. Without a doubt, and AI definitely won't be able to be as foolish as the three of us- Got it... on podcast intros.
26:09
[laughs] Yeah, so, uh, on behalf of Kyle Mounce here, Michael Cirillo, and myself, as always, we thank you for joining us here on Auto Collapse.
26:18
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26:31
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26:40
[upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.