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Stop overthinking today · Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!

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Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. There we go. I think that's the one I like. We got it. We got it. Boom. peter: but Pete: went to doing like pre-recordings. Well, Keith, we're at the part of the interview where I'm gonna ask you those two questions. All right, Amanda Landes: that I had been kind of like since head for a while about about writing the story because Mia Mason: you are not the only one that experiences thoughts, Pete "mental Health Champ": Well, Dr. Erica, before we start wrapping up, I'm going to ask you Pete "mental health champ": Hello, welcome into another exciting episode of Pete for Exotic. Before we get started today, guys, let's give a shout out to my partners over at PsychPal. link will be in the description for you. Seven day free trial as always. And you guys know the code is in there too. It's code PET at checkout if you guys want your first month for 20% off. you know, and and guys, like I said, you know, show them some love. With that being said, my guest today is a Danish clinical psychologist, author, and the chairwoman of the MTC Institution in Denmark. She specializes in overthinking, anxiety, and emotional regulations. Please welcome in the one the only Shang Olsen. How are you doing today? Shang Olsen: I am great, thank you. How are you? Pete "mental health champ": Doing fantastic. Well, I'm so glad you're here. it's an honor to have you here as always. I've always like I said, it's great having all these great people from all over the world come in. So why don't you tell me a little more about yourself? Shang Olsen: Right. So I am a clinical psychologist. I am originally from the Middle East. I grew up in Denmark. My family is Danish. My husband is Danish. And I a I specialize in helping people overcome overthinking. And you'd be surprised how many people actually overthink. We just talked about it, and I recognize Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: this every day. Whoever I talk to, they always show me that they have something going on in their minds. And that's fine. But for most people, this overthinking can take overhand and become something that feels difficult to control. So when people worry about stuff, when they turn over things in their minds, they analyze stuff, at some point they not only get exhausted. and upset or anxious, they also feel like they cannot stop this overthinking. So that's where I come in. I teach them how to let go of that and how to overcome anxiety and depression and stress and low self-esteem. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah, definitely. So I know it's listed that you're an author. Do you want to highlight some of your published work that that maybe these guys can check out that are listening? Shang Olsen: Right, so currently they are in Danish, but they're planned to come out in English as well. I have written books Pete "mental health champ": Okay, okay. Shang Olsen: on metacognitive therapy, so MCT, and relationships. So how does overthinking impact our relationships? How does overthinking make it difficult for us to communicate? How does it make us feel like we cannot deserve the relationships that we want deep down? So and and how to deal with that, how to let go of this overthinking so we can improve our relationships and remove problems. So that's one of the books. Another book is for therapists and coaches and it's about how to use and apply metacong therapy with your own clients. And I have a lot of Pete "mental health champ": That's really cool though. Shang Olsen: experts in MCT that are in the book and they're talking about how they are working with this method specifically. Pete "mental health champ": That's that's really cool. So how did you come to to work in metacognation? Was that something you've always like you studied or is it something you came across as you were going to school to to to get to where you're at now? Shang Olsen: Right. So so it was a coincidence. I was doing what most therapists do, which is something called C B T. So Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: cognitive behavioral therapy, how to manage your thoughts in a different way, how to, you know restructure your thoughts so you turn them into something more rational than irrational. So I was doing that for a while and I found that it was not really clicking with most of my clients. And maybe because it wasn't really clicking with me. I felt that it was kind of like a battle going into therapy. I had to convince my clients to think more rationally about their thoughts. And it was a coincidence that I heard of metaconctotherapy and I applied for this position in Denmark with one of the experts actually in in metaconctotherapy. And I soon realized, after a couple of sessions, I realized that this was really a game changer in psychology. This is a completely different way of helping people overcome anxiety and overcome stress and low self-esteem. And after a couple of sessions, I was hooked. And I applied on my own thoughts, and I've had so much success from doing that on myself and on my clients. And Pete "mental health champ": Yeah. Shang Olsen: now that's all I do. Pete "mental health champ": So, you know, for the people at home probably thinking the same thing, like, what is it like when you go into a session like that? Give me give me give us a feel for what it's like. Like, how would the process work a little bit? Just in case anybody at home's wondering. Because you know, a lot of people don't even know what that is. I didn't really know what that was either until you started explaining it to me. But that's the great thing about this show. I get to meet great people like yourself that could teach me these new things. So what would it be like? Like, say if I came to see you, what would this session process be like? Give let's so we can give the listeners a little idea of what it would be like. Shang Olsen: Right. That's a good question. So you'd come in and maybe you'd tell me, I I I struggle, I've been feeling so much anxiety this past Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: week and I've have I have all these thoughts and it feels so overwhelming, I don't know what to do. I would then ask you, what is it that's been on your mind lately? What has been on your mind this past week? And you would tell me, it's thoughts about what if this happens or what if that happens or what if my anxiety gets worse, what if I don't recover? Stuff like that. And I would then ask you, Okay, what kind What do you do with those thoughts when they pop up in your mind? Do you go in and worry about them? Do you analyze them? Do you try to push them away? Do you distract yourself from them? Do you notice how you whether you feel anxious in your body or not? All those things, and most of my clients will tell me, Yes, I worry a lot. I check my body for signs of anxiety. I try to avoid going places that provoke this anxiety. I avoid talking to people where I feel more anxious. And those strategies are what maintains the anxiety. So I would then go in and ask my client, what would it be like for you if he stopped worrying so much? If you if you reduced worrying about those thoughts. Doesn't matter, the thoughts will come. We can't really stop those. Sometimes we have bizarre thoughts, sometimes we have weird thoughts. But what if you could just stop worrying about them? How would that be? And most of my clients will tell me, thou will be amazing. I would love to learn that, but I don't think I can. And then I go, let's find out if you can. Let's try some things and see if you can. And then we apply techniques like leaving thoughts alone, using our attention more flexibly. Instead of always focusing on the thoughts and the anxiety and move it on to other more productive things, we will postpone worrying. We'll work in the session with, okay, let's worry about something that's really on your mind today, and let's also stop and postpone worrying about that. So all these things we do in the session to demonstrate to my clients that they are, of course, able to stop worrying. And that is something that's very powerful for them to take away from the sessions because then they can go out and the next time they find themselves worrying, they will just stop themselves. They'll think back to this experience they had in the session where they could stop worrying. They'll stop themselves. And many of them, most of them discover that this is a much nicer place to be. The anxiety kinda takes care of itself, they feel more clear in the mind, they can focus on other things, they can be more present with their families, their jobs, so it's a win win. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah. Yeah. So I'm I'm wondering though, what's the number one cause for overthinking? Is it just people worrying about certain things? Because a lot of people might not even realize they're overthinking. So, like what are some signs that people may not even realize they're doing at the same time? They may be overthinking. Shang Olsen: I love that question. So so it seems that we learn these things from our families, from society, from going to school, from the media, from even going to psychologists and doctors. So these w the ways we talk about feelings and thoughts and thinking reinforces the idea that overthinking is a good thing to do. So let's say if someone, one of my clients' moms was someone who would worry a lot. Or she would always enfor she was always encouraged, she would always encourage her son, my client, to it's a good idea to think things through. Or she would ask him, Are you sure? Are you certain that this is a good thing to do? That kind of questioning, that kind of language reinforces the idea that worrying is a helpful thing to do. Or if you had a parent or sibling who was afraid of germs, or who took their thoughts very seriously, and every time they had a thought, they would analyze it, they would talk about it, they would try to neutralize it, doing rituals. Yeah. Pete "mental health champ": Ba basically like a germophobe, you know, like like we we call them germophobes or those people that really worry about things, you know, like like kinda like that, similar to that. Shang Olsen: Yeah, yeah, for example. And it can be harmful. It's very normal to ha to see that everywhere, but some people have it more than others. But if you grew up in an environment where this was something that was talked about and someone told you, no, no, don't shut that. This is dangerous or this is this has germs on it, these kind of ideas reinforce then how we deal with thoughts. Because these kind Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: of ideas reinforce the idea that thoughts are important, thoughts are thoughts are dangerous. Thoughts cannot just be there. We need to neutralize it, we need to Get rid of it, we need to act on it. So, the reason why this therapy is called metacognitive therapy is because we have certain metacognitive beliefs about our minds. So, a metacognitive belief is basically a belief about how my mind works. For example, if I worry, I'll be more prepared. If I worry about my daughter, I'm a good mother. If I analyze all the mistakes I did in the past, I'll learn from that and then I'll do better in the future. These are called metacognitive beliefs. But people, most people have these kind of metacognitive beliefs to some degree. But the ones who really struggle with anxiety or depression or OCD and low self-esteem, they also have these beliefs that I cannot stop overthinking. I cannot stop worrying. I cannot stop ruminating. Worrying is harmful, it can damage my body. Rumination is harmful, it can damage my brain. So Pete "mental health champ": Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree totally with you there because that's how my anxiety worked a lot of times at first before I started really learning new things. Like I meditate every morning and things like that. And it helps like, you know, I do a lot of strange things to other people. Like I'll talk to myself sometimes, but I'm really just putting the ideas out there. I have an anxiety journal. I have all these different tools I picked up along the way. you know, but it it helps so much. Like I don't my brain doesn't lock into something and just cycle because if it does I'll I'll just tell I have a friend I can talk about it all the time. I reach out many time. I'll just tell the most random things possible. He's like, okay, your anxiety's at work again. Yeah. You know, but it's it's things I've learned though. It's a lot I can address it a lot better. That's why the show was called Peter's anxiety because I every day I was battling my anxiety, but as I the show kept going on, I kept meeting different people that were adding different techniques to my my toolbox for me. That I could try, you know. And then season two, I met somebody who was telling me about, you know, meditating and talking to my inner child because I was abandoned when I was 10. So like I had a lot of issues that were coming up because of that. But now I'm in a way better state of mind. people could see it 100%. My kids could see it. We didn't have a relationship until recently. you know, and things like that. And they could even said the same thing. They said, Dad, you're not the same person. You don't sound like the same person, you don't act the same way, you don't give off the same vibe, you know. And and things like that too. And I told him it's like it's it's because of things I learned, you know, like I applied to it, you know, and applied to what I'm doing and tried it, you know, 'cause like my theory is if I don't try it, what have I got to lose at that point? You know, I mean, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I mean, it may not be for me, that's all it means. Shang Olsen: I love that attitude. So it sounds like you can recognize how your mind will turn, you'll get into Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Yep. Shang Olsen: worrying. These techniques that you've picked up along the way, they actually help you stop the worrying in your mind. They actually work for you. Wow. Pete "mental health champ": Yep. Yeah, you know, and I have to explain that to some people sometimes. I'm like, just in case you see me over talking to myself, don't worry about it. I'm okay. Cause like you know, you don't want to weird people out because they're not a lot of people don't understand it. Like, you know, here in the States, mental health is kind of like you know, people like they some people are okay with other people are just like they still live in that belief of, it's not real. But at the end of the day, it it's there, man. COVID, COVID made it come out wide and clear when it happened here in the States because everybody was isolated. And it pushed it forward for a lot of people to realize that they had a lot of problems because they couldn't escape it by just doing other things just to keep away from dealing with it. Now we have to deal with it. You know, it's like, you know, it's it depends generational, obviously. Like the older generation, some of them get it. Others are just like, you know, because like mental health for them when they were their a when they were that younger age, it was it was nothing. Like they didn't really know anything. It was a pill, pill, pill type of thing. Now that it's evolved to where we're now, you have so many different areas, including the one you're in too, that that people can go do these things. Hell, I just found out they even have a float tank you can go sit in and lay in. One of my one of my friends does that. She was Man, you gotta go try this. You was floating a tank in this water, and you just sit in this room with this music, and you just like you zone out. I'm like, okay, that's interesting. You know, it's but it's so cool to see though that that we're we're evolving these things and we're learning different things. You know, even hypnotherapy was an interesting one. I've had a few people come on that have experienced it and I've had hypnotherapists come on. And it's crazy the things that you can learn just by where they're going with these kind of things. Shang Olsen: Right. It's it's very good and reassuring to hear that it's not so stigmatized anymore and Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: there are all these different options that pecu people can try out to help themselves. So Pete "mental health champ": it's still stigmatized a little bit if you go to the internet, which of remember you said media. Let me tell you, it's it's a free-fall out there. That's the scariest part, I think, because a friend of mine, me and him were we get to we usually got together Wednesdays. We took a break from doing that, but we were good, we were looking at some t statistics for like mental health and social media. The the scary thing is it's 45% of adults report that it's negative for their kids to be in social media, but we still let them be on there. And it's like You know it's a problem, but yet again, we're back to this issue where we just want to sweep it under the rug. But then when people bring it up and start talking about it, you get mixed reviews because everybody has a different opinion, or you see these people giving out so much false information, it just makes you want to scream sometimes. You're just like, please stop talking. You know, what was it? One guy said if you're depressed, he said, Go back to your 18. I'm like, How do you know what people were like at 18? Maybe that was the worst moment of life. You don't know what they were struggling with. Like you're giving out information that's that's scary, man. And you need to stop. Like you're giving out so much misinformation. Like no research had been done here. I could tell you right now. And then where was it? The guy that went viral because he said, what do you say, anxiety isn't real or something like that? no, depression wasn't real is what he said. It's not real. I'm like, Wait, what? Like, dude, I know how I feel when I'm depressed. Let me tell you, like Mm, you know, I don't know about that, man. It's it's real to me because I've I deal with it. Like maybe you've never dealt with it or you don't realize you're dealing with it. But that's the scary part about it. Like, you know, that's why I could I could see that contributing to people overthinking though, because you're getting all this misinformation and then you're like, God, what do I believe? Because this is just complete overload, Shang Olsen: Exactly. Pete "mental health champ": you know? Shang Olsen: Exactly. I couldn't agree more. It it it the the good the good side of social media is that a lot of people from across the world can hear good messages Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: and learn stuff and become smarter and help themselves. Downside is that you can hear a lot of things that are not true, that are not backed up by research and can actually make things worse. At least contribute to your overthinking. Pete "mental health champ": Well, I don't know what it's like for you guys in Denmark because here social media is so big. I know in other parts of the world, it's not that heavy for a lot of people. Like, you know, TikTok's everywhere, but you know, it gets a bad name. At the same time, there are some people on there that are doing really good things, spreading really good messages and things like that as well. You know, and and you just gotta kinda like check sources, really, honestly, is what I would do. That's why I tell everybody like check the sources because some these guys, like the things you're saying, you're just like, huh? Now, if they state it like, this is my opinion, okay, cool, then go for it. You're free to say whatever you like. But don't act like you're the expert here and you have no background whatsoever. And you're making these statements because you're just clouding people's judgment now. And it's it's the hardest part, you know, again and then you have the overthinking that comes in because you start freaking out and what and then people with anxiety really start freaking out because they just take the thought and run with it, you know? And it it's it's crazy to watch. And it's just like every time I see them, and and it's also those those suicide awareness videos. God, I hate those so much. The ones where they tell you, Shang Olsen: Where are those? Pete "mental health champ": well, do you ever seen those ones where they're like, okay, so this setup is like to go after you take your life, this will keep and they keep saying these things afterwards. And I'm thinking, you're not helping somebody in this situation by telling them that when they're gone, life's gonna move on without them. I think we're giving out the wrong message there. I'm like, I I see what you're trying to do, but God, please stop. You're not doing it in a great manner. You're not people at that moment aren't listening. Shang Olsen: those campaigns worked? Like are there any statistics showing that how that's helping? Pete "mental health champ": The statistics here in the state that I know so far, six hundred thousand men are lost to suicide every year. six hundred thousand people, Shang Olsen: Six hundred. Pete "mental health champ": eighty three, eighty two, at least eighty percent. I think it's gone up a little bit now, at least eighty percent of our men. Shang Olsen: And how many was it? What was the number? Pete "mental health champ": Six hundred thousand. Committed suicide. Shang Olsen: every year? That's Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: a that's a crazy Pete "mental health champ": A lot. Shang Olsen: number. Pete "mental health champ": It it is. It is. When I saw it originally, and when I I had another podcast I did before, it was something totally different. I when I saw that statistic, it was the scariest thing I've ever seen. I'm like, and I'm in the second highest category at to be there because I've had suicidal thoughts before, you know. I I've been there, I know what it's like, and just to see the number continue going is just it's insane. Like it gets worse, though, because recently it was the we lost some professional players. that were really young, 24, and I think the other guy was like twenty-five or twenty-six, to the same thing. And it's like no one's talking about that much, but everybody says, we're talking about it. I'm like, but where? That's when I started this show. I was like, you know, we need to have a conversation about this, you know, just where people in the conversation. Like you see some some doctors talking about it, but that's cool. But I was looking at for like the like for people to come in and feel like they could share something. You know, bring some people like yourself in, bring other people in. But I've I've had people from all parts of wherever You're going from your average Joe to professionals like yourself come in, and it's just like it's it's the the demand to be on this show is crazy. But it's it's a well needed conversation because we're not talking about this. I know people say we are, but weird because the number just keeps going up. In this year alone, the statistics I heard was that male boys from ten to fourteen went up. And it's all because social media. Shang Olsen: Goodness, I thought you said six hundred. Actually thought you said six hundred, and I was like, okay, it's a lot, but six hundred thousand. Pete "mental health champ": No, six hundred thousand. It's it's insane. The number and it may be lower, it may be higher than that, honestly. But that's the last one I saw. But you know, it's still too high. At eighty percent of them being males, it's just it's insane. Like it's just like we need to talk more about this. We need to figure out something. But it's like it's cited a lot of times too. Well, you know, they had social they had mental health issues. And then what do they say after that? Just sweep it on the rung and then walk away from it. But people like me and a couple other people are pushing To try and get people to talk more about this. And there's other people, like I said, in these different areas that are working on it too. And it's just, it's just crazy the things you see people post, though. And it's like, like you have no idea. And then the whole thing of where they were attacking men's mental health. Like, I'm like, I don't know why people think this is a great idea. You want the clout, but you really don't, because the last person that did it was here last year. She she was to put a video up. She was dancing and going, throwing a party. That woman completely disappeared from the internet like a month later because people were coming after her. They were putting her name out there, everything else. Her family members were getting on there and apologizing for her. It it's just, it's just like it's scary, man, that this is the way we treated. Like everybody is equal in this situation. It's just the fact that the month exists is because 80% of it is men. That's that's the only reason I feel like it's there is because we need to bring light to this situation. You know what I'm saying? And it's it's scary though, because then you have social media on top of it. And then when you start posting things on social media, God knows what these people are responding. And it's really scary place out there. So, you know, my daughters now I worry about a little bit 'cause I talk to them regularly. And it's because you don't know what they're looking at on the internet these days. Well, my girls are probably not looking at anything that bad, honestly, that I know of, but I can't say that a hundred percent. But still it's just it's the number's just insane. Shang Olsen: It is there. And you don't know if you're someone who struggles with depression or anxiety, you don't know what is what. If especially Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: if it's said with confidence and someone says that, I've tried this, this is working, you believe me, and you're not feeling very well, you're already overwhelmed, it's difficult to know where to turn Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: and which advice is the most helpful. That is I appreciate Pete "mental health champ": Yeah. No. Right on the head. Right on the head with that one too. So, you know, and that and that's it's the craziest thing ever that, you know, that's what we're battling against. So much misinformation out there and and things like that too. So it it it gets scary though, but at times, you know, if you can save one person's it you've done enough right there alone, honestly, you know, because we get I get emails all the time from people that hear some of these episodes, they reach out and they have their own personal stories and then they end up coming on the show and then they You know, you run back into them to see what what it was like afterwards. I know one girl came on, she shared this crazy story that I met through TikTok. And she said after the show, people were reaching out to her saying, Well, I didn't even know that's what you were dealing with. She's Well, how would I tell you that story? Like the level of insanity of what I'm saying here, the way the story just kept going back and forth. How would he tell somebody that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, like you you don't know people can handle that conversation. It's the same thing with anything. You know, when you share things with people. You don't know how they're gonna react because they don't understand. A lot of people here don't. And the great thing about the show though is with like I get the opportunity to have people like yourself come on and tell people there's other things out there. Like it talk therapy isn't for you. You know, Dr. Shane can help you. She's she's doing incredible things over there too, you know. Or whoever, if that doesn't fit for you, try this. You know what I mean? There's so many different options out there now. And that's the great thing about podcasting, is that we can reach so many other people with this, you know, with all the different stuff. So With that being said, though, let's let's talk about being the chairwoman. Like when when did that happen? That's gotta be pretty cool, though. Shang Olsen: So that was that was last year. It it Pete "mental health champ": Hey. Shang Olsen: it is pretty cool because we have a lot of good and enthusiastic and capable psychologists and therapists who are learning this method and trying to Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: become very good at using this method with their clients. And what we're doing is to raise awareness about this kind of therapy, both for people who need it very much, but also for a therapist out there. I talk with a lot of therapists. I've seen a lot of therapists coming to me and having sessions with me, and many of them tell me that, well, it can be difficult if they don't feel like they can help their clients the best possible way, they too get into overthinking, they too get depressed and feel hopeless about the situation. So this is something that's helpful for both therapists and clients out there and potential clients. So we're trying to raise awareness and we're trying to do campaigns. We try to educate our therapists to do even better. So we have experts coming over, we have workshops about metaconto therapy. Recently had a professor from Norway coming in and he talked about how to apply this method for people who have personality disorders and into personal problems. This was really yeah. Pete "mental health champ": Mm. Okay. That's an interesting category though. Yeah, personality disorder is a really interesting one for sure. One hundred percent. We we've had a couple excerpts on yeah, we had a few experts on for that. I've had one that did, you know, what D D I D was one of the situations we ran into as one of the most interesting cases ever because like I saw the girl and you could just see the little ticks and changes she had, 'cause it's not like what people think. I think the best movie that portrays it, a lot of people are saying was split, the movie with the guy that had all the personalities. It was kind of what it was like, you know. In there was there's there's different situations. Like some people are like that, but hers was a little different though. Hers had like the sudden little ticks. If you watch her facial features, you'll see her kind of and the tone of voice changes. You know, things that you look for when you so she started changing some things. And I was like, I just kept going with it because I'm like, I know something's not right, and I'm very observant of what she's doing. And I'm watching her and her facial expressions change, the way her tone of voice is, the body language would change, you know, things like that, like slight little ticks that a lot of people didn't really understand that. what it would look like, you know, and it was always interesting when you you get these interesting cases because also BPD was another one too. Like a lot of people didn't know what that even is. They all thought it was bipolar. I'm like, no, we talking even something more intense than that. You know, and I was actually in a relationship with somebody who had it. And you know, like you see people demonize it. And I'm like, but did you take time to think about what the other side is thinking though? You know what I mean? I had an actual expert, she Dr. Jen Bellinger came on the show. I I surprised even got her to come on, but she was awesome. And we talked about that for a bit. We were talking about what it's like, you know, what these individuals just deal with and things like that for people that never even knew what it was. Like I didn't know until someone had mentioned she had it. And I was like, I'm wondering what that is. Because I saw a little weird ticks she would do. And, you know, I kind of think my ex-wife may have an undiagnosed case of it too, just from the things I've seen, being being in that relationship with another person and you know, looking back at some of the things she would do too, you know, and it's like, I wonder if she she was dealing with that, but she never do it because She was so jaded against the, you know, whole medical system anyway. So you you're not you can't help somebody don't want that help though. But yeah. So so my thoughts though, really Shang Olsen: That's a good point. Yeah, yeah. Well the interesting thing Pete "mental health champ": quick though, my thoughts for you before we actually let me fin let you go ahead and finish. I'm sorry. Shang Olsen: No, was just gonna say from a metacognitive therapy perspective, so so usually when we hear about personality disorders, they feel mystical Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: and strange and we don't know much about them. And I think it's very stigmatized in the sense that many believe that these are personality traits and they're stable Pete "mental health champ": Mm. Shang Olsen: more or less. Yes, you can go to therapy, you need many years of therapy, maybe you can make some changes, but no one talks about maybe or are able to overcome 90% of these problems, if you actually do the type of therapy that's most helpful for it. So in metacognitive therapy, we look at it more like people activating a lot of different strategies, like worrying, like analyzing, like monitoring for threats that are maintaining their personality problems. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah. No, you're good. Listen, my question was going to be to you, is have you thought about going global with this thing after you you get it built up? Because you're taking all this time to learn about this. And like you said, a lot of people don't know what it is. Have you thought about branching to stateside to see if maybe some people over here maybe might be interested in trying, you know, trying to expand it a little further? Is there any plans for that? Or is it right now just to kind of build your base and then go from there? Shang Olsen: I was actually thinking about this today before talking to you. that is my my goal, that is my aim. I have I have clients from the US, from Canada, and I also see therapists who Pete "mental health champ": That's awesome. Shang Olsen: have supervision with me, and they do all tell me there's no one no one's talking about this in in the States, and I think a lot of people would would want that because it's such an interesting and refreshing approach. So that is that is my plan. Question is what is the best way to do that, how how to do that. Pete "mental health champ": Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Have you ever thought about doing like keynote speaking or something like that? Maybe bringing it up in a topic and introducing people to the idea of what it is, you know, you know, because you've got enough examples now of how it works and how it if works differently with people and you know, different strategies implemented for people. Because like you said, you had therapists that are coming to you too, like, hey, listen, you know, and what to do in those situations, like they get in the overthinking situation. Okay, listen, if you fall into this, you know, just give them practical things that you're doing that are working. It it might be the way to go though. Ted talks are even a bigger one too. These people do a lot of days. A lot of people just do s speaking in a lot of places and things I I think it's a great idea. I think that more people should learn it. And I think the further we can you can expand it to even better because you never know. Like you said, a lot of people in the States don't even know what that is. You know, maybe it's the thing that'll work for most people. You never know. Shang Olsen: Right, right. That's I like that idea. I never thought about keyno speak and and TED Talks yet, but going on these podcasts and meeting people like you, Pete, that was part of the strategy to to reach out Pete "mental health champ": Right. Yeah. Well, like I said though, you can do from where you're at too, though. There's a lot of digital people that get together and do a lot of keynote speeches and things like that from different locations. And there's a lot of digital events now. Now, with the internet being what it is, you can get together a lot of people from anywhere. You don't physically have to be in the States. You know, you can do you can hit more people too, invite them to a teleconference and tell about hey, listen, this is what I got, this is what it is. You know, things like that. There's so many different ideas. 'Cause I have a friend, she's a therapist as well. She She does a lot of speaking engagements and things like that as well and stuff like that too. She goes physically to him because she's here in the States, but you know, there's there's like I said, with with the way the internet works these days, you could literally touch it, get everybody in one room and they don't have to be physically in the same room, you know, kind of thing, which is really cool, though, to think about. Shang Olsen: There are there are a lot of opportunities, absolutely. And it's and it's just about thinking creatively about it. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah, yeah. So listen, but for our anxiety people at home, do you have any tips for I mean, this is your area. What kind of tips do you have for Shang Olsen: This may sound very I'm going to say it very confidently because I have a lot of research behind this, I have a lot of clinical experience behind this. Not the reason why you keep staying anxious is ninety-eight percent because you're engaging in overthinking strategies in your mind and mainly through worrying but also through analyzing and ruminating. And I'm gonna talk about what they what they look like. I'm gonna give you a couple of examples in a minute. Maybe Pete can Pete "mental health champ": you're hitting them all in the head right now, girl. Go for it. Keep going, because I'm right there with you. That's 100% what it's like. Shang Olsen: Pete can help. And and also threat monitoring. So so worrying is asking a lot of what-if questions, imagining worst-case scenarios in your mind, and it can be a lot of different questions. It could be about your personal relationships, about the anxiety itself, it can be about your future, your health, anything basically can be a subject that you will worry about. Worrying. Future oriented makes you feel anxious. Rumination is more like past and present-oriented. It's you asking a lot of why questions. Why did they say that? Why did this happen to me? Why did I make that mistake? And you basically analyze and go over things in your mind. Those two strategies maintain anxiety. And in order to overcome anxiety for good, once and for good. The most important thing you can do is to learn to reduce that worrying. So let's say if you're worrying 85% of the time during a day, if you could reduce that to 5% of the time, you will recover from anxiety. You will not have panic attacks anymore. You will not experience this crippling anxiety overtaking you. Pete "mental health champ": No, I agree hundred percent. Like and now that it don't worry so much. I I've had a I had a panic attack a while back, but that's before I started implementing these strategies. Now I don't even have anything close to that. Like, you know, I don't really overthink many things. I don't get as, you know, agitated as easily. Like there's days where I'll have rough days, but I mean it's just what it is. You know, we all have them days, you know, in in it's a lot better now. But yeah, you're right. A hundred percent because that's what it's like. You grab on and you just fixate on that idea, you know, and you're just So focused on that alone. And it's like people don't get that. It's like that's what it's like sometimes for us. You know, we we focus on these things and people wonder why we hold grudges like that because we're so f fixated on it. Like that's just how we are, though. It's it's one of those flaws that we have that we, you know, we're working on. You know, me, I don't fixate so much on it anymore. It's it's one of those things, but I've I've seen a reduced amount. Like I said, people people said I'm a lot different than I was before because I'm not so reactive, I'm more thoughtful. you know, and in the things I've done, like I said, dating a girl with BPD was interesting too, because you you can't talk to them in a certain way. So you have to really think about what you're saying because something she may not understand, you know, and that helped too, because now I'm thinking about it really quick. I'm I'm thinking about it, but I'm not fixating on it. You what I mean? Like I'm thinking about what I'm gonna say next instead of just straight up reacting. You know, but yeah, like like I said, you hit it all in the head though. I mean, it makes perfect sense for people that don't experience it, don't understand the thought process that we go through. Like mine, would if it grabs it, it'll go and it'll start building up and then it'll recreate a whole new story in my head. And then people are like, Well, what are you you know, in in a relationship that's hard too, because then you start fixating on weird things, you know. Luckily, my wife, when I we were together, she understood a lot of it. Shang Olsen: Mm-hmm. Pete "mental health champ": My thoughts would be like something go in and then come out something. And I tell her what it was, and she just starts laughing. She goes, Jesus almighty, what do you get that from? And you know, but it wouldn't be true though. That's the thing. Like my brain reinvent it to be something it's not. And I tell her about it. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna tell you about this. This is kind of stupid, you know? And she'd laughing because I'm like, God, you know, and and it's wouldn't be true though, but that's what it's like for us, though. People don't get that. People just want to tell you, calm down. I'm glad that's just how this works. Like you can tell based on when people say things like that, they have no idea what they're talking about. I understand. You don't understand. You don't understand. I called somebody out on that too. One of my upper bosses had said something to somebody. I said, Did you tell this girl this? And she's like, Yeah. I said, Don't. Don't, because that's not that's not helping her at all. She's going through a lot. She's dealing with a lot. She said she needed a mental health day. Or so she said she needed a mental health day. And I forget what she responded. Something so like, so rude. I was like, Hey, by the way, don't say that to people because especially people in her the young lady's situation, she had a lot going on. Some her mom was, you know, breaking down. You know, all these and then you for you to say that when she tells you she needs a day, and then you respond like that, that means you have no idea. I understand you have no idea. Like, literally could tell you you have no idea what you're talking about. Like the way you responded was so insensitive. And I was trying to help her, you know, like, hey, listen, I do this all day. I talk about this all day, I research this stuff. You're not helping this conversation when you say things like that to people because it's it's more it's more negative because now she's bitter about it. And she was. The girl came in and was telling me, Do you believe what she's? Hey man, I wouldn't say something to her. I told her I said I wouldn't say something because that's not cool, dude. If we're talking about, we're we're mental health focused in this company. We're not. We're you have a person here that's saying insensitive things to people, and then when you're correcting them, like, hey, listen, not trying to be rude. Don't do that because that's not good. Then they get mad at you. It's like, listen, this is what I do. Like, this is my area. Like people come talk to me all the time when I was at work and ask me things. hey, listen, can I talk to you about something? I know you'll understand. And it's it feels great because people are like, hey, can I tell you about something? You know, you're not, I you're not going to judge me. I'm not. Go ahead. What's up? And I've heard some wild things be said to me. But, you know, when that guy said, I was like, hell no. I'm like, I went and challenged it. I was like, dude, did you really say? yeah, yeah. No, don't say that. Don't. You know what I mean? Because it's just you know what I mean? You're like you you're like you're trying to help people and at the same time they think you're trying to be rude. And I'm like, no, I'm trying to tell you how not to interact with this person because you know, she ended up quitting because you you said that to her. You know what I'm saying? And I don't blame her. It wasn't good for her. She was stressed out. I quit too eventually. I eventually got fired though, but I was like, I was on that edge. Like the last two weeks I was there, I was on that edge of just losing my mind. But it was for the better. Listen, it was better. Now I'm here closer to my daughters. I've got to spend more time with them than I have ever spent with them after they they they went to move in their mom. We're having a better relationship now. I'm getting to experience these life moments. Like I got took my eight eighteen year old to get her flatter's license, you know. That only happens one time, you know, and things like that. So it it's been great. Right. Well, Dr. Shang, we're at that part of the interview. We're gonna ask you those two questions. I got one for you right now. I'm interested to hear your thing. Shang Olsen: Can I can I just just not to risk Pete "mental health champ": Go ahead. Shang Olsen: to sound like those vague people who just say something generic. I want to say something regarding the tip sound. Pete "mental health champ": No, go for it. Listen, go for it. Go for it. Listen, your opinion is well valued here. You go right ahead. Shang Olsen: Thank you. So so when I say reducing worrying, if you're really suffering from anxiety or depression, this is best done with the help of a MCT therapist. But Pete "mental health champ": Mm-hmm. Shang Olsen: there are things you can try already now, even today, after you listen to this. And one of the things I advise my clients to do is to get into the habit of postponing worrying for later. So let's say you decide that you have a worry wind window that's 15 minutes long and put that ideally later in the day. Excuse me. So when you go about your day and you notice that you're worrying about something in your mind, a thought pops up, thoughts do pop up. That's not something we can really control. But if you did notice that you're engaging with that thought through worrying about it and asking all these what-if questions, then tell yourself, I'm going to worry about this later in my worry time. And then you stop that worrying and then you focus on something else that's more productive or more helpful or more fun for you. And as you go about your day, maybe more worries will pop up like that, but you continue telling yourself, I'm going wait, I'm gonna wait and do that later. And when later comes, it's not mandatory for you to worry. But if you still want to, then you can sit down and worry those fifteen minutes. That's a great way of reducing the worry time so that you don't worry about something all day and exhaust yourself like that. Pete "mental health champ": I agree. I love it. I love it. So we're at that part of the interview where we ask these two important questions. I ask all my guests the same questions. This first one is a bit of a fun one, okay? So the question to you is if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? I love people's responses to this. So the funniest one to date is held by a man named Keith. He was 67, worked, was a military man for a whole life. Responds with I kid you not says grandma got ran over by a reindeer. I damn near fell out of this chair laughing. I'm like, What? I was like, No way, dude. No way. Shang Olsen: Okay, is there is there maybe you can help me, Pete. Is there a song about being very focused? That's that's my mental health these days. Pete "mental health champ": It could be any song you want, honestly. There's a lot of There's a lot of Shang Olsen: Like not like not not in the sense of I'm so productive, look at me guys, but more like I'm really focused on getting this message out there and this is all I'm thinking about today. And these days. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah, Eye of the Tiger fits right in there. Have you ever seen Rocky before? The movie Rocky with the boxer, he's focused and Shang Olsen: Yes. Pete "mental health champ": he's done you that song that comes out, and he's just like Shang Olsen: No one? Pete "mental health champ": the Eye of the Tiger. Yeah. Eye of the Tiger 100%. So you want to go with Eye Shang Olsen: Let's go for that one. Pete "mental health champ": the Tiger? Okay. Yeah. See, listen, that was that's the first century. But like I said, I've had some interesting ones. But that one, the Ryan was coming over here, I was like, Keith, man, I like I almost fell over laughing hysterically. And I'm like, bro, this is too funny. So but Dr. Shang Olsen: Uh-huh. Pete "mental health champ": Shang, we are at the last. I've question of this interview and the reason I start this podcast, now if you could break the stigma about mental health. Now what I'm asking you is if there's something out there you just want people to stop believing and you could have multiple points in this situation. What what what would you say that would be? Shang Olsen: Regarding mental health or just the stigma around mental health? Just the whole thing? Pete "mental health champ": Mm. The whole thing. Either one you however you want to answer this, you're c you're called. And there's no wrong answers to this question. Shang Olsen: Okay. your thoughts are not truths, they're not facts, and they don't say anything about your personality. Your thoughts are just thoughts. Pete "mental health champ": Awesome. I love it so much. Well, Dr. Shang, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me today. It was an honor having you. before we wrap up, do you want to let everybody know where they can find you? Websites, social medias, anywhere you want them to come find you. Shang Olsen: So I have a YouTube channel that's called Shang Olsen, my first name and my last name, and then Metacognition and Mental Health. And on there Pete "mental health champ": Love it. Love it. Go. Shang Olsen: I talk about all these things. I provide a lot of tips and tools and strategies, so go check it out, see if you find something useful there. Pete "mental health champ": Yeah, defin definitely guys go check it out. I did look at it before we started this interview. She has a lot of videos on there of great things that, you know, might be helpful for you. And and Dr. Shang, we're gonna put those all in the description of the video for everybody to find in case they're listening somewhere, they don't have a chance to click right away, and things like that as well. So, guys, but with that being said, we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete for Sanxiety. You guys know where to find me? I'm Pete for Sanxiety. I'm an X all the way down to TikTok, I'm on Spotify all the way down to Panoradio. And if you're in the Pittsburgh area, you can find us on the 360 app on the Pittsburgh. network over there in Pittsburgh. We are gonna be on hold for a little bit, but guys we will be back, I promise you. And as always, say it costs nothing. Absolutely be kind to somebody. It takes one kind act to do to save someone's life or hell you can make their day. I'm Pete for Sanxiety sign off saying don't ask how your day is today. Say hey, how's your mental health?