Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / Interior Decor Business Strategies: Attract Clients, Build Relationships, & Drive Referrals

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Interior Decor Business Strategies: Attract Clients, Build Relationships, & Drive Referrals · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

0:01
Hello, and welcome to the show. Today's going to be a noisy
0:04
episode because the kids are home.
0:06
You know, school is not back in session yet, and I'm not an
0:09
audio booth. And today's also going to be a
0:12
rambling episode because I just discovered one of my old notes
0:15
from a couple of days ago. It was a strategy session that I
0:18
had with a young fella. I didn't, I don't have
0:22
permission to use his name, so let's just call him Jackie Chan.
0:25
So this is a strategy session that I had with Jackie Chan.
0:28
He's in the interior business, interior decor business.
0:35
Some of you might be wondering if that is my specialty and
0:37
actually it's not. It just happens to be a
0:39
coincidence that in the last, you know, four or five weeks
0:42
that some of the engagements and conversations I've had have been
0:47
around interior decor. So no interior decor space
0:52
management. That is not my area of
0:53
specialty. My area of specialty is sales,
0:56
especially personal selling, because I'm convinced that one
0:59
of the reasons why lots of businesses don't do well is
1:03
because we don't know how to have conversations with people,
1:05
how to open up the conversation, get to know them, figure out
1:08
what their problem is from that, make relevant recommendations.
1:13
And then after that, you know, secure the commitment, close the
1:16
sale, fulfill it, make sure that they're happy.
1:19
And then get people to come back to do business again.
1:21
And also send their friends, their family members and their
1:24
associates and hopefully their enemies as well to do business
1:27
with us because all money is good money, not up to a certain
1:29
point anyway. So, yeah, so that's my area of
1:34
specialty sales and business development.
1:38
And like I keep saying on the podcast, these kind of skills
1:41
that I have just mentioned are universal and they apply to all
1:46
kinds of businesses. So you can take it and apply it
1:48
to a plumbing business, to an interior decor business, to law
1:51
business or to your medical practice if you are a doctor, or
1:55
to your architecture practice. So bottom line is just a
1:59
coincidence that I'm talking to or rather than I'm revealing
2:02
another conversation with an interior decor person today,
2:05
it's just a coincidence. Then let's see what else.
2:09
OK, so shout outs. So First off, I'm going to shout
2:12
out. OK, you know what?
2:15
I'm just going to shout out one guy now.
2:17
But there are plenty because I think there are like 4 that
2:19
reached out today. So I need to take my time, go
2:22
fish them out from LinkedIn and WhatsApp and then address them
2:26
properly. So First off, shout out to
2:28
Yusuf. He is a student of computer
2:30
science and currently a copywriter.
2:34
And he's glad for the podcast because he says that it is very
2:39
insightful. And I'm happy to, I'm happy
2:42
about those of you who reach out to say that the podcast is
2:45
insightful. But Please remember what I say
2:47
on the show and when we talk one-on-one, remember what I say
2:50
that if the podcast is very, very insightful, but you guys
2:54
don't find one thing to do, you know, tomorrow or next tomorrow
2:57
to move the business forward, then I personally feel like I
3:00
would have failed in starting this podcast.
3:03
So the whole point is not just to wow you guys and to show you
3:06
guys that I'm smart and brilliant.
3:08
The point is to make sure that I'm dropping stuff that you guys
3:10
can do every single day. You hear something today, OK,
3:14
today is a Monday night. You hear something today, you
3:16
write it down Tuesday morning, 8:00 AM, apply and then try and
3:20
see how you can move your business forward.
3:22
So Yusuf, thank you very much for listening to the show and
3:25
others like Yusuf who are still students in uni.
3:28
What you're trying to do, one or two hustles, please, please,
3:31
please, please continue. That is the way forward.
3:36
It is going to get rough when you get to part 5.
3:40
You know, final year, that's, you know, whether you're a five
3:43
year course, 4 year course or seven-year course.
3:44
So that final year part is going to get really, really rough
3:48
because you know, academic workload, especially those of us
3:52
who came in year 1 and didn't really play, I mean who didn't
3:54
really study, ended up playing too much.
3:57
So that final year, that's when you're now going to start
3:59
sweating bullets to see how you can raise your GP.
4:02
Or by the way, for those of you who have just entered uni, just
4:05
so you know, in Nigeria anyway, in Nigeria, we use a cumulative
4:08
GPA. So bottom line is this, if you F
4:12
up in year 1, you are screwed. So that's just how it works.
4:16
Unfortunately, it's cumulative. So you're better off coming in,
4:20
in year 1 and making sure that you're doing average, average,
4:23
average, average. And then you finish with A22 or
4:26
A21, then come in year 1 and then you play your life away.
4:30
And then year 2, you're trying to now catch up, you know, with
4:34
a cumulative system, grade point average system, with cumulative
4:38
GPA. There's no catching up.
4:41
Where was I? So I was just saying that those
4:43
of you who are in uni, yeah, continue.
4:45
Year 5 is going to get rough. You feel like you're trying to
4:49
catch up. Even though there's no catching
4:50
up, you still feel like, well, let me do my best, you know, but
4:54
a bunch of as in final year is not going to make up for the
4:56
fact that you got lots of ES in year 1.
5:00
Then there's also going to be the pressure of what's it called
5:04
a project. Yes, your, your project, your,
5:06
your thesis. And then for those of you who
5:08
are in maybe like architecture, you know, you do your defence.
5:11
I think architecture, computer science, you guys do defence, at
5:14
least in OU anyway. They used to do defence in very,
5:17
very good schools like OAU. Those of you who went to second
5:19
rate universities, like, you know, all these state
5:22
universities and all these private universities, I'm sure
5:24
you guys don't do defence. Then let's see what else?
5:30
Relationships. Yeah, relationships is also
5:32
going to be a source of stress because, you know, as a young
5:34
woman, you've been dating this guy since year 1 and you know,
5:37
all those questions of oh, where are we heading, blah, blah,
5:39
blah. What are we, you know, because
5:41
you guys are on the precipice of, you know, graduating NYSE
5:46
and all that. And then if you're a young man
5:47
also that whole stress as well, like, OK, I've been dating this
5:49
girl since I was in here too. Should I propose, should I not
5:52
propose, you know, blah, blah, blah.
5:54
But bottom line, what I'm trying to say is for those of you who
5:57
are in school and doing it as a side hustle, yes, all these
6:00
pressures are going to be there, but please continue because it
6:03
is the beginning of setting yourself up for a successful
6:05
future. It doesn't matter if Yousuf
6:08
continues to do copywriting in the future, but the skills that
6:11
he's learning now in copywriting and in talking to people,
6:16
introducing himself to people, negotiating with people, trying
6:20
to manage projects, all those things are going to come in very
6:22
handy in whatever it is that Yousuf chooses to do in future.
6:27
All right, sorry about that. Today's intro has, OK, Today has
6:31
to be the longest intro, 7 minutes.
6:32
So let me get straight into the meat of the matter.
6:34
So like I said, today's going to be a conversation that I had
6:37
with Jackie Chan. Not his real name, but I don't
6:40
have permission to use his real name, so that's why I'm going to
6:41
call him Jackie Chan. So excuse me, where was I?
6:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he is in interior decor and
6:53
space management, and we spoke about a couple of things.
6:56
The strategy session with him was supposed to have been around
6:59
how to attract and retain customers because that is the
7:02
podcast that he listened to. And he liked the ideas where I
7:06
spoke about how to market to people that you're close to.
7:09
And then he also wanted to discuss some more things around
7:12
simple and complex business sales scenarios.
7:16
And I wanted our strategy session to be about how the
7:19
ideas that he had on the podcast, I was going to apply
7:22
that to his business to move his business forward.
7:25
Because remember, for me, I'm all about practical.
7:28
It's not just all about theory, theory, theory, because theory
7:30
sounds sweet. But The thing is, we actually
7:32
have to do something to see the changes in changes in the
7:40
business. We actually have to apply
7:41
something so that all the sweet theory we know leads to business
7:45
growth and let's see what else. So that's what it was supposed
7:49
to have been about. But then sometimes, you know,
7:52
you head into client engagements, you want it to be
7:54
about one thing, but then you guys start talking and then it
7:56
ends up becoming something else entirely.
7:59
And so we ended up talking about, well, we, well, first of
8:04
all, we started off, started off trying to make sure that he got
8:07
his, his messaging correct because a lot of people you're
8:11
trying to talk to your friends, family members and associates
8:13
and strangers, but you're coming off with the wrong messaging.
8:16
And of course, he started off with the whole thing of superior
8:18
quality, superior materials, you know, those sorts of things.
8:21
And we had to have a conversation about that because
8:23
look, let's be honest, your competition is saying that
8:26
everybody says that they have superior quality and superior
8:30
materials. Then we had started off on that
8:34
note when he started asking a couple of questions and then the
8:37
conversation sort of changed. And then, OK, we abandoned that
8:44
whole part about what makes his business distinct.
8:47
And then we ended up talking about his his customer service,
8:52
customer service follow up and how they get how he gets
8:56
referrals because he's been in business not for too long, but
9:00
he's one of these folks that has started off with enough, enough
9:05
deal flow to get things going. And I figured he could be
9:07
getting more in referrals. And so in talking about his
9:11
referrals, we now figured that there were a couple of gaps in
9:14
how it is like he does business because Jackie Chan, not the
9:18
real Jackie Chan, you know, as in the guy that I'm talking
9:21
about now I'm just calling him Jackie Chan because this guy is
9:23
a very noble fellow. So yeah, Jackie Chan, he, he has
9:31
this error, this mistake that a whole bunch of us Nigerians
9:36
making business, which is we don't have the debrief process.
9:39
It's called different things by different people.
9:41
I just like to call it debrief. And this is the idea behind the
9:44
debrief when you do the thing, OK, let me use inverters because
9:50
somebody who reached out to me today is in the inverter and
9:53
solar panel space. So when you do the thing, you
9:56
install the solar panel, you need to have that part of your
10:00
business process where you call the person up or you go to the
10:03
house, you go to the office. There has to be that part where
10:06
you just show up and say, Olga, Madame boss, you know, whoever,
10:11
how far. I hope everything is working OK.
10:13
Nothing is parking. All my people are professional.
10:17
They didn't leave the place dirty.
10:21
How is the battery holding up? You know that conversation, all
10:25
these conversations just to be sure that everybody is happy.
10:28
Now, that is one thing that is missing in amongst Nigerian
10:31
business people. And in fact, don't feel ashamed,
10:34
everybody does it. And for me, it was the same.
10:36
If I didn't realize that I had a problem with my business until I
10:40
think I had done close to 20 weddings as a wedding
10:42
photographer. And then one of my brides, one
10:45
of my earliest Abuja brides actually, she now made a
10:49
referral for me to do somebody else's wedding.
10:52
Nothing it, you know, the referral didn't click.
10:54
But that was when I had a problem.
10:56
I just thought about like come, I have shot close to 20 weddings
11:00
now and only one bride has tried to hook me up.
11:03
As I told myself, that meant I wish my, there's a problem here.
11:07
And so don't worry, it's not just you.
11:10
We all do it. Lots of us don't have the
11:12
process of debriefing and the debrief is necessary to gaining
11:16
referrals because people are not going to refer us until they're
11:21
happy with the results that they've gotten.
11:23
And The thing is, we're not even in the best place to even ask
11:26
for a referral until we're sure that they're happy and that
11:29
there are no more problems that need to be resolved.
11:32
So we actually need to have the debrief process as part of our
11:37
the debrief as part of our sales sales process.
11:42
Now, remember, like I said, it's going to be called different
11:45
things depending on who you're talking to.
11:46
I just call it a debrief because, you know, my initial
11:50
background was in law. And when you're done with
11:54
everything, you sit down with this.
11:56
Well, I'm not sure what they call it nowadays, but back when
11:58
I finished law school, you know, you sit down with your guy, you
12:00
sit down with your senior partner, you sit down with your
12:03
practice manager, you sit down with whoever, and then you just
12:05
run this small debrief so they'll let you know what's up.
12:07
Like, OK, Tavishma, the way you handled this thing was OK.
12:11
When you were in court and the other council said this, you
12:14
could have said that. Or when the judge said this, you
12:16
could have said that, OK, you handled it like this, next time
12:19
handled like this, next time handled like that.
12:21
So that was a debrief. So we also need to have debriefs
12:25
in our business because it's necessary to figure out if
12:27
people are happy, It's necessary to figure out if people are
12:31
getting what they want out of our product or service.
12:33
And then from there, we are going to be able to ask for a
12:37
referral. So that's something that Jackie
12:39
Chan was not doing in his interior decor business.
12:42
And I know that half of you, in fact 97% of you listening to the
12:47
show right now, you guys don't have a debrief process.
12:49
So you need to have it there. So if you're a solar panel
12:52
installer, alternative energy person, you install January 1st,
12:57
February 14th, pick up the phones, Hey Madam, happy
13:01
Valentine's Day, blah blah blah, some small teacher.
13:03
Now it's all be hard. The children, Madam, that
13:05
installment that we did last year, last month, I hope there's
13:09
no problem. Everything is working okay, this
13:11
National Grid that collapsed share everything functioned
13:15
well, you know, blah, blah, blah.
13:17
You have that conversation. It's from there you're going to
13:18
be able to slide into Oh Madam, is there anybody in the in the
13:21
estate who also wants to do solar panel as well?
13:23
Can you give me their phone number?
13:24
Can you hook me up? Can you introduce me?
13:26
Can you, you know XYZ? So that's how you handle it.
13:30
The same thing if you're a fashion designer, somebody comes
13:32
and says give me peplum. My sister is getting married.
13:36
Yes, I confess I don't know anything about female fashion,
13:39
but while I was a wedding photographer, I know that peplum
13:41
was raining back then. So I don't know if peplum is
13:44
raining anymore. In fact, I'm sure some of you
13:47
young ones don't know peplum itself.
13:49
But any I just keep saying peplum because that's the only
13:51
style I know. I know peplum.
13:53
I know backless, I know mermaid. I think those are the three that
13:56
I know. OK, so let me just say mermaid.
13:59
So somebody comes and says, look, fashion designer, my
14:01
sister is getting married, give me mermaid.
14:03
I want to slay and then the you give her mermaid design and then
14:08
she goes for the wedding. The average Nigerian fashion
14:11
designer, tailor, whoever will just deliver the mermaid and
14:14
then that's it. Call the person a week later and
14:18
have the conversation. Sister Hannah, Congrats to for
14:21
your sister or sister's wedding, you know we will just in nine
14:26
months, God will do it for us yourself.
14:28
You do your own wedding, Happy new year, blah blah blah, that
14:30
whole talk and then you have the conversation.
14:32
I hope the dress was OK. I hope you slayed.
14:34
If I did you take picture, please share the picture with
14:36
me. In fact, for those of you in the
14:38
fashion space, this is what we call UGC.
14:42
UGC is OK. Well, it's not just people in
14:45
fashion, it's social media. Basically, UGC just means user
14:48
generated content. That is one way that you can
14:52
come up with stuff for your social media by just using
14:56
content that is not you that created, but rather it is your
14:59
consumers, it is your fans, it is your followers, it is your
15:02
community that created on your behalf.
15:04
So if you're a fashion designer, this is actually solid stuff
15:07
that you can be sharing and is this is how you get it from the
15:10
conversation. You say that I killed it.
15:13
The dress laid. In fact, I looked magnificent.
15:15
I looked this, I looked at are you serious?
15:17
I begged share pictures now say I'm coming.
15:20
I took pictures, but the professional pictures are not
15:22
out yet. The photographer said they'll be
15:23
out in two weeks. I'll call you in two weeks for
15:25
the pictures are don't worry now don't worry, I'll give you the
15:28
picture and then two weeks you call up the picture.
15:30
It's professional done stuff like that.
15:33
Now put it up on a LinkedIn. Sorry, I said LinkedIn.
15:36
Sorry, excuse me because I'm spending all my time on LinkedIn
15:38
now. What's this thing called?
15:40
Instagram. You now put it on your Instagram
15:42
or your TikTok. You now tag the babe or you tell
15:45
the baby that when she puts it up she should tag you.
15:47
You know, so user generated content.
15:50
So where was I? Look at me.
15:53
I lost track of what I was saying.
15:54
Anyway, basically it's just in the debrief process.
15:58
I think I was trying to show how sorry I forgive my kids just
16:02
laughing in the background, you know, just laughing about.
16:05
I have really lost my train of thought, OK, I was just trying
16:08
to show how, yes, that this applies to everybody.
16:11
So if you're in the inverter space, you can do it.
16:14
If you're in the fashion space, you can do it.
16:15
Have the debrief. So it's when you're having the
16:18
debrief and she's happy and that she's late and that she looked
16:21
good and she looked fly and everything.
16:23
And from there you can now slide into the whole thing of, oh, was
16:26
there any member of the train who is getting married?
16:28
I beg, can you give me the phone number or do you know anybody
16:31
who also wants to do mermaid design or who wants to do this
16:37
or who wants to do that? You know you have the referral
16:42
conversation, so everybody should be doing it.
16:44
Lawyers you should do the debrief.
16:47
Interior decor person do the debrief, Fashion designer do the
16:53
debrief. Everybody do the debrief.
16:55
Then in having that conversation now, he now had another
16:58
question. OK, sure, no problem.
16:59
I agree with you, I'm supposed to have been doing the debrief,
17:03
but now that I've not been doing it, how will I go ahead and do
17:06
it? And then I shared with him the
17:08
formula that I've been sharing with this podcast.
17:10
Those of you on this will be listening regularly on the
17:12
podcast time and time again. And that's the basic outline of
17:15
greeting, intention, questions, proposal, and close.
17:19
Now this is not the best way or the only way to structure a
17:23
conversation. It is just one of the easiest
17:26
ways that I found very helpful. And so I crammed it when I
17:29
started off and it has never failed me because it's a nice
17:32
way to structure a conversation. So that's why I keep saying it
17:34
again and again and again. But if for you, you think it has
17:38
too many steps because greeting intention.
17:40
So let me count greeting intention, question, proposal
17:43
close 12344 OK, that's five. If you think 5 steps is too much
17:47
and then you find a conversation framework that is only three
17:49
steps, then by all means you don't do it.
17:51
But The thing is we need to have some sort of framework to guide
17:54
the conversation. And this is one of the reasons
17:56
why people are scared and don't do some things because like I
18:03
told the guy, you guys to do a debrief.
18:05
The next thing is, OK, how the hell am I going to debrief?
18:08
So, yeah. So let's get into it.
18:11
So greetings, intention, question, proposal, close.
18:14
Now greeting. Of course, you start off with an
18:17
appropriate greeting and then you go straight into the
18:19
intention. Some of us waste too much time
18:22
with oh, how have you been? How was Christmas?
18:25
Oh Chinubu, oh, the economy, oh, water board, oh, Napa is killing
18:29
us. The cost of this, cost of that,
18:31
you waste like 20-30 minutes doing that.
18:33
It's not being helpful. You have to be able to get
18:36
straight into the reason why you're here or the reason why
18:38
you're calling. So in his own case, I told him
18:41
appropriate greeting. So hey boss, how you doing?
18:45
Happy new Year, blah, blah, blah.
18:47
Oh, yeah. The reason why I'm calling, I
18:48
just wanted to be sure that everything is OK, that the POP
18:50
is still on points, that the work that we did, the painting,
18:53
the screening, the disk, the word that that, that, that, you
18:55
know, the everything that is there's no problem and that
18:58
Madam is happy with it and everything.
19:00
So you go into that. Then after that, you're going to
19:03
have to ask particular questions.
19:07
That's where, you know, you ask questions about what you could
19:10
have done better and let's see things that they liked and what
19:13
you could have done better. And that's the focus when it
19:15
comes to the questions part. When we're doing the debrief,
19:18
then proposal is the part where in this case, because I told him
19:23
that when we're doing the debrief, we're trying to look
19:25
for referrals. So the proposal stage is where
19:28
you're going to ask for the referral.
19:31
So do you know anybody else who XYZ?
19:34
You always try and keep it as particular as possible.
19:38
So the example that we use now in this case was somebody that
19:40
what he did for the person was screening and then painting and
19:43
then POP. So screening is when you come in
19:46
and scrape off everything from the walls and then of course,
19:48
you put a new coat of paint. Then after you put the new coat
19:51
of paint, he now did the POP and then that's all that he did for
19:55
the person. So somebody else came and did
19:57
the rest. So this will be the case now
19:59
where you now answer. Oh, OK boss, do you know anybody
20:01
who wants to do screening and painting and POP?
20:04
And then you wait, and then you hear.
20:06
See, the more particular the better.
20:07
Because if you go and say, oh, Bros, you know anybody who needs
20:09
my services, that's too vague. But if you go and say, do you
20:13
know anybody who wants to do screening and painting because
20:17
this guy is a business owner who's trying to fix up his
20:19
place, he might know one or two other business owners who are
20:21
trying to fix up their space. And I'll say, oh, OK, I know
20:24
Darya, I know Kuli, I'm coming. Let me check with him.
20:27
I'll get back to you. You know, that kind of thing.
20:30
So the more particular that we are when we're asking for our
20:33
referrals, the better. Then the close is where you try
20:37
and get the person to take action.
20:39
So like if he says, oh, let me speak to them, I'll get back to
20:42
you. You know, you get a particular.
20:43
So OK, fine. No problem, boss.
20:44
No, Allah, can I call you Monday, 8:00 AM to remind you?
20:48
So OK, sure. Monday, Monday, 8:00 AM.
20:50
That's cool. So close just means you're
20:52
trying to get the person to take action or to get the person to
20:55
commit to something because we cannot move the deal forward and
21:00
we cannot close deals if we are not getting people to take
21:03
small, small, small commitments. And you can see that this is the
21:06
reason why it's a useful outline because you will show up, you
21:09
greet somebody, you go straight to, why am I here?
21:12
You ask the person a couple of questions.
21:15
From there, you'll be able to make a proposal about this is
21:17
what we should be able to do next.
21:19
And then you also get the guy to or the girl to commit small to
21:23
moving the deal forward. So you continue like this, like
21:26
this, like this, you should be able to move things forward.
21:31
But bottom line is once you have some sort of structure, it
21:34
doesn't have to be what I'm saying.
21:36
Greeting, intention, question, proposal, close.
21:39
Find whatever framework works for you.
21:41
For me that it is 6, I'll be 5. That is five stages.
21:45
It's not too much for years. 5 is too much and you find
21:48
somebody who has an outline that is three or two, then use it.
21:51
But The thing is, if you have your framework like this, easy
21:55
to remember is in your skull. You find it easy to, I'll put it
22:02
if it's easy to remember, it'll be easy to do.
22:05
And then the more you do it, the more confident you will get.
22:09
And the more you do it over time with more confidence, the thing
22:12
just seeps into your memory and you'll be able to do it just
22:16
like that. I mean, you just wake up from
22:18
sleep and then you just roll. Like I tell people, early on,
22:23
there was a time when if I was receiving a business call, I
22:26
would not answer until I had my pen and my paper and my scripts,
22:30
because I don't want to forget anything.
22:31
But now I can talk to anybody in any industry anytime because all
22:36
these scripts, all these frameworks, all these, what
22:40
should I call it? All these, whatever, whatever,
22:42
they're all internalized so we can have the conversations.
22:45
And let me see. OK, 22 minutes.
22:48
Let me not stay here for too long.
22:51
Yeah. So there's one point in the
22:52
conversation when he asked me a question that made me very, very
22:55
glad. And if you're going to ask me
22:57
this question, it's going to make me exceedingly glad.
23:03
And anyway, let me just straight to what the question was.
23:07
So he said that, hey, look, I noticed you've been saying phone
23:09
call, phone call, phone call. Does it have to be phone call?
23:12
How about if I go and see the person?
23:15
And I told him, Jackie Chan, you are on point.
23:19
It is not flesh and blood that has revealed this to you.
23:21
It is the spirit that has revealed this to you.
23:25
And then I told Jackie Chan about the communications
23:26
hierarchy when it comes to communication because
23:30
communication is not just about talking to people and passing
23:33
across information. Communication is also about
23:36
trying to figure out, is this person feeling me?
23:39
Is this person vibing with me? Are we on the same page?
23:43
So because communication is a two way thing, what am I saying?
23:47
And then is this person feeling me?
23:49
Are we vibing? Are we on the same page?
23:51
Because of that, there's a communications hierarchy for
23:54
effectiveness of communications. And then face to face is the
23:58
best because face to face, if you say rubbish, you can't tell
24:03
by the way the person will squeeze his face or the way they
24:05
will shift their body. You can't tell that, OK, this
24:08
thing that I said was totally off point or this thing that I
24:12
said that I thought was a compliment.
24:14
This person has taken it as an insult.
24:16
You can't see it straight, but if it is an e-mail or a WhatsApp
24:21
message or a text message, you cannot tell that you just
24:24
offended the person. So it's because of things like
24:27
this that face to face is absolute top of the pyramid.
24:32
The problem is just that face to face is expensive.
24:34
Now, Jackie Chan is based in Lagos.
24:36
Face to face means you get into the bus or you fuel your car and
24:39
you drive out to that person's place.
24:41
And we all know how traffic can be in Lagos.
24:43
So face to face can mean you've wasted 3 hours of the day.
24:46
But I know it's not a waste. You're investing in something
24:48
else in the future because maybe we'll take you one hour to drive
24:51
there, you know, 45 minutes for the meeting, one hour to drive
24:54
back to your house. That's it, Three hours, no go.
24:58
So that's always a problem with face to face, but it's the
25:00
absolute best when it comes to communication because you're
25:05
going to be able to modulate your cadence, your pace, your
25:10
choice of words, because you might come in feeling all formal
25:13
and proper. And then you get there and you
25:15
see that, oh, you're talking with your homeboy or home girl.
25:17
You now change pace. But of course, you can't do that
25:21
when you start off with text or e-mail or SMS, you know, you
25:27
start off with whatever your assumptions are.
25:29
You don't have any feedback from the other person to see that
25:31
your messages are not landing well.
25:33
So face to face is number 2 is number one on the pyramid after
25:37
face to face is phone. That's the reason why I was
25:39
saying phone call. The reason why I keep saying
25:41
phone calls because I know that most of you prefer doing SMS and
25:44
WhatsApp. So that's the reason why I say
25:45
phone call. If I say face to face, some of
25:48
you will just revolt. You will anyway.
25:52
You just revolt. You say look, that is you do
25:54
you. Let me do me, but face to face
25:56
is the best. There's research that shows
25:58
this. Then next is phone after phone.
26:02
There's now video Zoom and then all of that after video zoom and
26:06
all of that. Then next in effectiveness is
26:10
SMS and WhatsApp. Because those ones are are semi
26:15
formal. They have some informality to
26:17
them. And then at the very bottom is
26:19
e-mail. For some reason, e-mail carries
26:22
no context, no emotional. This e-mail is just flat.
26:26
So especially for those of you who have issues with the
26:29
customer, you and your customer, you're quarreling.
26:31
The customer says you didn't deliver these.
26:33
You, you say you deliver that and you people are emailing back
26:36
and forth. You are just making yourself
26:38
angry and you're making the customer angry.
26:40
The best thing to do is, OK, if you're afraid that if you go
26:42
there face to face you will slap you, then just pick up the phone
26:46
and try and have a measured conversation.
26:49
So where was I? Yeah.
26:52
So that's why the thing made me very, very happy.
26:53
Made me happy because in this day and age where lots of people
26:56
want to hide behind the keyboard, I'm finally meeting
26:59
people who have no problem with just driving over to somebody's
27:02
office and sitting down and having a conversation.
27:04
And it's the best way to build your business.
27:06
Unfortunately, it's the most time consuming, but I think
27:09
we'll talk about that later when it comes to scaling the
27:11
business. So I was really hard.
27:12
I'm glad when he asked me that question and I hope I'm going to
27:15
run into more of you that are going to ask me questions like
27:17
that where if I say call the person, they'll say, OK, can I
27:20
go and see them face to face? So face to face, absolute best.
27:24
So let's see what else. Let me see.
27:28
Let me look at my notes. Sorry, this is a real rambling
27:31
episode. I know because, like I said, the
27:33
conversation between me and Jackie Chan was, yeah, it was a
27:37
rambling one. It was all over the place.
27:39
And, you know, sometimes these conversations can be that way.
27:43
The thing that I want to say, the thing that struck me the
27:47
most, Jackie Chan said he had a question, something about
27:54
confidence, that he's not very bold and what should he do?
27:58
And so I had to lay him straight, and I'm going to lay
28:04
some of you straight who are listening to this podcast right
28:06
now, some of you who thinks I lack confidence.
28:09
I'm not bold. I want you to listen very, very
28:12
clearly, clearly to what I'm saying.
28:17
The problem is not that you lack confidence or that you're not
28:20
bold or that you don't beg yourself up.
28:24
The problem is you don't have a plan or a framework for what
28:27
needs to be done. And when there is no plan or
28:30
framework, of course you will hesitate.
28:33
Of course you're going to balk, and of course you're not going
28:35
to know what to do. The first thing to do is to
28:39
figure out some sort of framework.
28:41
So I had to lay it straight with him.
28:43
Now look, it's not that you lack confidence or that you're not
28:46
bold. You didn't know how you're
28:49
supposed to be doing all these things.
28:50
Now that I've given you the framework, you're still going to
28:53
be scared. But like I said, you will try it
28:57
and you will try and try and with the doing and with the
29:01
internalizing and you getting better, the confidence in quotes
29:06
that you're looking for will start coming.
29:08
But for most of you see, there are some people, yes, who have
29:11
clinical problems, clinical psychological problems that
29:15
affect your confidence and everything.
29:17
But just know that statistically speaking, it is not most of you
29:23
listening to this podcast. Not everybody has clinically
29:29
diagnosed issues. So I mean, statistically
29:32
speaking, it is not your problem.
29:34
I'm willing to take that gamble. So it's not that you lack
29:37
confidence. You do not have the framework.
29:40
You need to get the framework right and you need to get the
29:42
game plan right. That's the reason why soldiers
29:44
are confident they can't fly into battle.
29:46
It's because they have practiced it a million times.
29:48
You wake up in the morning, you make your bed, you do your press
29:51
UPS, you eat your breakfast, you assemble your rifle, you
29:54
disassemble your rifle. What else?
29:58
You learn, you know, attack, you learn defence, you learn this,
30:02
you learn that, you do it 1000 times so that when the thing
30:05
actually happens, you just move and get into action.
30:10
So it's the same thing, muscle memory.
30:12
First of all, get the framework, learn the framework, practice
30:17
the framework. You'll be fine.
30:19
The confidence will show. Then I also pointed out
30:23
something else to Jackie Chan, and this is something that
30:28
surprises me. For those of you who will stand
30:30
up in a business seminar and tell people that you lack
30:37
confidence or that you're talking with another human being
30:40
and you tell the person that you lack confidence.
30:44
I'm not a psychologist, but I'm willing to take this bet.
30:47
I believe that the true person who lacks confidence will not
30:51
stand face to face and look you, another person in the eye and
30:54
say, oh, that confidence is my problem.
30:57
That you're bold enough or brave enough to talk about these sorts
30:59
of things shows that you're a brave person, especially those
31:03
of you who you know, I'm giving a session or something.
31:06
And then you stand up in front of the whole group and say that,
31:08
oh, that you're confidence and you lack boldness.
31:10
You lack boldness, but yet you stand.
31:12
You take up a microphone in the presence of, you know, 30-40
31:16
people and then you're talking and you still think you lack
31:19
confidence. You still think you're shy.
31:21
Oh, come on. The shy person is not saying
31:25
anything. The shy person is not standing
31:26
up. The shy person is doing nothing.
31:28
The shy person is trying to blend in.
31:30
Everybody cover me. Let me hide Those of you who
31:36
stand up in places like this to say I lack confidence, please
31:40
help me. Please.
31:41
Lack of confidence is is not your problem They are bold
31:44
enough to stand up and admit that you have a problem or that
31:47
you're bold enough to stand up in a room full of strangers to
31:50
try and talk through a couple of issues.
31:55
Lack of confidence is not a problem.
31:56
So if you're like Jackie Chan, you think that you lack
31:58
confidence trust me, you don't then let me see.
32:05
Then the final thing that I told Jackie Chan and I want to
32:07
impress on all of you is this also sometimes when we collapse
32:11
in on ourselves when it comes to talking to people,
32:15
presentations, you know, things like that, when we collapsing on
32:17
ourselves, it's because we're thinking too much about
32:20
ourselves and we're not thinking too much.
32:22
We're not thinking enough. Excuse me, about the other
32:25
person, about the audience. So and it's even something I've
32:32
told my wife because you know, she also wants to get better at
32:34
presentations and things like that, although she doesn't
32:38
Anyway, let me just leave that one.
32:40
So, but if you go there and you're worried about yourself,
32:42
is my posture correct? And that's why I don't like all
32:46
these people who are going around telling your women, go
32:48
and do power pose and then women are going to go and do power
32:51
pose as in power pose what? Just focus on your audience.
32:56
Focus on making sure that you're that you're communicating with
33:01
the audience instead of how is my suit?
33:05
How is my stance? How is my hair?
33:08
How is my shoes? I mean, that's too much
33:10
pressure. Of course you're going to
33:11
crumble. So don't be thinking about you.
33:15
You should be thinking about the audience.
33:18
What do they need to hear? What are you trying to
33:20
communicate based on the feedback that you've gotten?
33:23
What do you need to address next?
33:25
When you're paying attention to the other person and less on
33:27
yourself, all these things just automatically, all these things
33:31
just automatically fade away. So some people say, oh,
33:34
Tavishima, you're brave. I'm not like you.
33:36
You're brave. No, I'm, I'm not brave.
33:38
I just gave up long time ago that if I keep looking at
33:40
myself, I'll always be nervous. So I just get there and do all
33:43
the things that I need to be done.
33:44
Sorry, sorry. No, I just get there and do what
33:47
needs to be done. So if I'm there because I'm
33:51
trying to talk to. OK.
33:53
I think the last engagement was the woman on, I think that was
33:58
in November. Yes, I think it's December,
34:01
November. The ladies in Abuja on digital
34:04
marketing, if I'm there to talk about digital marketing, I'm not
34:08
worried about do I have power pose?
34:10
Is my allocution correct? Is my shoe on point?
34:14
Did I shave properly? Did I?
34:15
I'm not worried about any of that.
34:18
Mine is just OK ladies, I'm here.
34:20
This is what we're supposed to discuss today.
34:22
Let me get to know you all so that all the things I'm saying
34:25
are going to be tailored to you guys.
34:28
So sister on the right. So, yeah.
34:30
Welcome, ma'am. Who are you?
34:32
What do you do? What do you hope to get out of
34:34
today's session by the time each of them is talking like that.
34:37
Like that. Like that.
34:38
See, I'm not focusing on me. I'm focusing on them.
34:41
I'm now getting to know who exactly is in the room.
34:43
What are their challenges? The proposal.
34:46
Sorry, not proposal. The presentation.
34:49
The lecture that I'm about to give now becomes relevant.
34:52
All the examples that I need to come up with will come from the
34:55
group themselves because I'm hearing from them and I know
34:58
exactly who they are, what they are about, You know, another
35:02
decision. So, you know, a young lady said,
35:04
oh, Sally, you're very confident.
35:05
Something, something some you know, it's not confidence.
35:07
Stop paying attention to you. Go and pay attention to the
35:10
other person. Pay attention to the situation.
35:12
Pay attention to the thing that you need to do, the confidence
35:15
to sort yourself out. So the confidence will sort
35:17
itself out. But bottom line, there are a
35:20
bunch of you listening to this podcast right now.
35:23
You think you have confidence issues.
35:25
You don't have any confidence problems.
35:27
There's not a father wound. Your father did not do anything
35:29
to you. Your mother did not do anything
35:31
to you. Your family members are not
35:35
putting you down. Your ex-girlfriend that dumped
35:37
you, you know, she didn't give you any crisis of confidence.
35:40
You know, that's, it's, it's nothing like that because you
35:43
can stand boldly and talk to a stranger or pick up the mic in a
35:46
room full of strangers. Believe me, you are brave
35:49
because there are some other people who would never ever,
35:51
ever touch that mic. So believe me, you are brave #2
35:55
the problem is you don't have a framework.
35:57
Get the framework, get the game plan.
35:59
It makes the whole thing a whole lot easier.
36:01
If you take me now and you put me on the pitch and you want me
36:04
to play against Manchester United, of course I'll be
36:06
shitting my pants because I know nothing about football.
36:09
I don't have the game plan. When last did I practice?
36:12
I'm out of shape. Of course I'm going to be as
36:14
nervous as hell. But then if you take somebody
36:18
who plays for BCC Lions, Goku or AIMBA and you put them on that
36:25
pitch, now of course Manchester United is still going to flog
36:29
them because the difference in skill is monumental.
36:32
But The thing is that person who has been playing for BCC Lions,
36:35
Boko or AIM by United, the person will have more confidence
36:39
in quote because at least conditioning is there.
36:43
Person has been practicing, there is some sort of game plan.
36:46
The person knows one or two fundamentals.
36:48
He knows that OK, Manchester United, they will flog me, but I
36:52
know how I can put up a fight. So game plan really, really
36:58
important. Then realise it's not about you,
37:01
it's about the person that you're talking to.
37:03
It's about the stakeholder, it's about the audience, it's about
37:05
the business partner, it's about the whoever.
37:07
Pay attention to that other person.
37:09
The more you're paying attention to them and what it is you're
37:12
trying to communicate or the problem that you're trying to
37:14
solve, you just find out that you know all these things about,
37:17
am I saying the right things? Do I look the right way?
37:20
Do I sound the right way? All of those things just fade.
37:23
Anyway, let me bring it to a close.
37:25
I think I've rambled on too much.
37:27
So those are some of the things that some of the things I spoke
37:30
about in my strategy session with Jackie Chan.
37:33
And I hope that in the rambles that I've gone over this evening
37:39
that some of you have been able to pick one or two things that
37:43
will find helpful to move your business forward.
37:46
And like, just like I told Yusuf, a computer science
37:51
student, I'm also going to tell you guys as well.
37:55
It's not just about saying, oh, that was insightful or that was
37:58
clever or that was brilliant. Do something.
38:01
So yes, yeah. I'm a very vain guy.
38:05
So if you do tell me that this episode was insightful, yeah, of
38:08
course it's going to make my head swell more, will make my
38:11
head swell even more Is for you to say not just that this was
38:14
insightful, but that I liked XYZ in particular.
38:17
And then I tried it. For those of you who try it and
38:21
it didn't work, I love having conversations with you guys.
38:24
You let me know I tried it, the thing did not work.
38:26
That's good. We need to have a deeper
38:28
engagement there and we need to qualify the approach.
38:31
For those of you who say I tried it and it worked, Oh, very good.
38:34
Makes me very, very happy. I'd like to hear the testimony
38:36
so I can put it up here on the podcast as well.
38:40
And well, bottom line, Sir, don't just hear and say it was
38:43
insightful here. Say it was insightful.
38:45
Get your pen and paper, write something down.
38:47
So if you're listening to this thing Tuesday night, so that
38:50
Wednesday morning, 9:00, you try and put it forward.
38:53
You try and you know what's that word?
38:55
Try and implement it to move your business forward.
38:58
So thank you very much for your time and attention.
39:00
I'll catch you guys in the next episode.
39:01
If you'd love to connect with me, the phone number is
39:03
08064662140. Country code is +234.
39:09
For those of you who are not Nigerian, that's my WhatsApp
39:11
number. So hit me up there.
39:13
Please, if you're sending me a WhatsApp message, please don't
39:16
send me audio, don't send me links, don't send me pictures,
39:20
don't send me anything that requires downloading.
39:24
Yeah, I'm trying to be very security conscious.
39:25
So you know, you know, I don't know you yet as in like we're
39:29
not friends yet. So please don't send me
39:31
anything. Just put a text message so that
39:33
when I open I can see and we'll flow like that.
39:36
When you and me know each other here, then you can start sending
39:39
me pictures and links and stuff like that.
39:43
And then besides, some of you need to use common sense.
39:45
Some of you are just to forward like I don't know you yet, we're
39:48
just getting to know each other. And they were sending me 40 page
39:50
PDF as in for what? Like that's taking the Mickey as
39:56
in, yeah, I'll have a conversation with you guys, try
39:59
and help you solve, you know, one or two problems.
40:02
But sending me a 40 page PDF to go and review, I mean, that's
40:06
it's just downright rude. Just rude.
40:09
So where else then connect with me on LinkedIn name to look for
40:12
establishing my idea. Thank you very much for your
40:14
time and attention. I'll catch you guys at the next
40:16
episode.