Latest / The Power of Doing What Matters / Poised to Recover: Scott Kuhta on Rebuilding Trust and Resilience
Transcript
- Scott Kuhta: [00:00:00] And now when I get something introduced, I don't have any, I don't have any fear because I know that I've built my system, my muscle mass, and my activity levels have been such... I'm pushing a lot of weight, like more weight than I've maybe have ever, ever have in my life now. And, I just know that I can handle whatever is the next thing. Because I also know that I trust, which is a big part of this program, is trusting my practitioners and knowing that they're not going to have me do something that's going to hurt me, so. Clayton Skaggs: Welcome to another Power of Doing What Matters podcast, where we explore doing what matters through stories, knowledge, and conversation that helps bring people to more resilience, recovery, and living fully. [00:01:00] Today I'm joined by Scott Kuhta. Scott is a three-year member here at the Central Institute for Human Performance and has been a tremendous presence at the institute over that time. He has had a successful career as a husband, grandfather, and today he's going to add to our understanding of poise and his journey recovering from persistent pain. Scott, welcome. Scott Kuhta: Well, thank you Dr. Skaggs. It's a pleasure to be here and quite an honor to be asked to participate. Clayton Skaggs: Well, thank you. Thank you very much, Scott. So, you, you're out in the wonderful state of Washington. That's one of my favorite places in the country and just, you know, love it that, you found your way to us. [00:02:00] Maybe let's start, start with that. How did you come to travel that way, all, all that way to the Central Institute? Scott Kuhta: Yeah, sure. I'd be happy to talk about that. Yeah, St. Louis is quite a distance from Spokane where I've lived since the, oh, probably 1980s. And I don't know, maybe 12 years ago I had a back injury that led me to a surgery that led to, a lot, some of the common complications post back surgery, a lot of nerve pain and muscle pain and depression and a lot of a lot of really bad things. But I never... I was constantly trying to figure out how to get out of the hole. I'd get... I'd climb up these, sort of these steep mountains if you will, literally and figuratively. Clayton Skaggs: Sure. Scott Kuhta: And then I'd have these big crashes and then [00:03:00] I knew there was something I needed to do. And I was a big fan of Stuart McGill and his his research and his book, The Back Mechanic. And I found your name amongst a very few that have worked directly with with Stuart McGill, and I called your clinic. To my surprise, I got a quick phone conversation with you and you made me believe that CIHP was the place that I needed to, to attend, to finish up or to actually to start my recovery, if you will. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. Professor McGill, colleague of mine and, and some of the other practitioners at the institute and he's just, you know, really done some amazing work and so, [00:04:00] yeah, I'd forgotten that you had come through his resource. That's, that's fantastic. And, so three years, right? And, and would you say your... You'd battled your low back situation for 10, 10 plus years or what would you put that at? Scott Kuhta: Oh, yeah. Yeah, easily 10 years. Even longer than that. Oh. I had surgery about 11 years ago and periodic back issues for probably 15 years prior to that. I'm a very active person. When I hurt my back, I was starting to do triathlons. I was running a lot and biking, and it's actually doing a bike race that I hurt my back. But yeah, so then after the surgery, I went through all the physical therapy but I was immediately debilitated. I couldn't sit, I couldn't stand. I had to go to [00:05:00] work and lay down on a mat and try to work on my side and type on my side and then it, I'd get better. I'd make some progress, and then I'd have a big crash. Sometimes incredibly painful crashes and nothing that, you know, that anybody said I needed more surgery, and that was the last thing I wanted to do. But, yeah, it was, it was a long journey before getting to CIHP. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, and I... One of the reasons I was excited about you coming on is you have shown incredible poise, along your journey with us here in these three years, and clearly, had experience with poise in your adult life leading up to joining us with your work and, all the outdoor activities that, that you've accomplished and, you know, played sports, [00:06:00] I know early on. And, and I think the good story is that you certainly had poise going through your adult life and yet when you got to these pain states, you weren't finding a way to put those forward or put them together for getting past this pain situation. And now you have, and we can talk about that later, but does that resonate a little bit? Scott Kuhta: school and a little bit of college. I played baseball and the notion of relax and then intense contraction or physical activity and then relaxing is so important in baseball and in other sports. You know, the tension that you carry, can really be a detriment to physical activity [00:07:00] or to pain recovery for sure, that we, I'm sure we're gonna be talking about a lot here. And also before I found your clinic, I did a lot of work with pain management. I went to a pain management clinic in Chicago for a month, where I learned a lot about how to, how to try to overcome, this intense pain with different techniques like mindfulness, meditation, and, and also biofeedback, breathing, Tai Chi. Just a lot of different things I've tried over the years, and it all helped in a certain way, but there was just this missing piece that I needed to figure out, and that was the building the resiliency and strength and addressing the [00:08:00] physical parts of, my issues that, that would help me to kind of get back my life, if you will. Clayton Skaggs: Wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah, I think, you know, there, in, in a lot of recovery we see there are often mixed needs and sometimes the mindful side is the bigger one. Sometimes it's restoring good movement and sometimes it's transitioning individuals to do harder things or build enough fitness that they can move forward, they can really recover, being fit, you know, fit to do those things. And, I think there were certain points along your path where that was the case. Scott Kuhta: Oh, absolutely. When I first, when I, my very first [00:09:00] visit, I had... Again, I had been fairly active even through this, recovery phase after surgery where I do a lot of cross-country skiing or a lot of hiking and really intense hiking, and then I'd have these big crashes and... But so coming in I thought, "Well, I've got a fairly good level of fitness." Then one of the first things you have me do is to stand on one leg. And I could barely stand on one leg. So that was such an eye-opener how dysfunctional my nervous system was that I could not, I could not stand on one leg for any amount of time. So it was, yeah, quite an eye-opener. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. I, I love that. I've had a lot of cases that, were doing all kinds of things, and yeah, couldn't stand on one leg. You know, [00:10:00] high-level athletes who were doing very intense sports activities, and then ask them to stand on one leg, and they have trouble. So, yes, certainly being fit to recover is, is key. And pacing yourself along that fitness journey is also, high value. I distinctly remember you on a number of your visits, coming in and you, you had some good early success with us, I think, within that first year. And you would come in and have some additional signals, or you'd had a few setbacks here and there and, and just weren't quite getting past it. And, then within this last year, you came into town on a visit and you were having some signals again. And I [00:11:00] distinctly remember this. It was one, one of my more exciting, encounters this year. And, you said, you said something to the effect, "Yeah, I know I'm having some increased signal, but I know it will be better in a few days. I know it's going to go away." And I was like, "Wow, there it is." "There it is." Yeah. Scott- Scott Kuhta: That was a big moment ... Clayton Skaggs: Scott has, he's passed, he's passed over the line of having self-efficacy. He knows he's safe to move forward. And I think it was after you'd had a hamstring injury or something. Scott Kuhta: Yeah. I think... Well, there's been a couple times. As you said early on, I'd get some signals, and it would take me quite a while. It would take me, on average, maybe two weeks to resolve something. So I... and it would kind of knock me back a little bit. Early on, it would kind of knock me back down to [00:12:00] baseline. And then as we moved through the program, if I'd have a signal, it would knock me back, and then it, I had to move forward after a couple weeks, and it wouldn't necessarily be baseline. In fact, there was one time, one visit, it was two Januarys ago, so about a year and a half into the program I was in a, on the couch in the Airbnb and I got up and that was my last really major, systemic response. And that's what I had been struggling with for so long because I had this, when you have this chronic pain you almost have this fight or flight reaction to stimulus, whether it's real or unreal, you know? And my whole body would just become on fire. And then when that happens, then your muscles just go into the protect mode, and that just makes that pain even worse, and it just takes a long time and a lot of work and relaxation over [00:13:00] time, hopefully, to get out of that. Well, the hamstring issue, and it actually it relates to the insight, quite well because I was fly fishing last fall, for steelhead up here in the Northwest. And it's a pretty, pretty, I wouldn't say it's an intense way of fish, but you're out there for long hours and you're standing in cold water, and I slipped off this rock on a cast and trying to hold myself from falling into the water. I tore my hamstring right below my buttocks, and I'd never done that before. It was an immediate pop and, and quite painful. And then I had a week trip planned two weeks later to go to actually do more fishing in the tropics. And I had an immediate conversation online with Dr. Skaggs, and he said, "You know, you're, you've built... You've got this built-in resiliency. [00:14:00] I think you're gonna be fine." And I did a little bit of soft tissue work with a local physical therapist, but I didn't fret about it. I didn't get, anxious about it. I just continued on with what program I could do, and turns out, in two weeks, I was able to go fishing. And even though my backside was all black and blue, it was a tear for sure, it came out okay. And I recovered quite quickly, and I think a lot of that has to do with my mindset and, knowing that, that I had built enough resiliency in my system to get through the other end. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. Yeah. It's, I often comment that these injuries along the way, these challenges or stresses along the way of your recovery are gifts, because they help [00:15:00] you see and feel and know how much capacity you've built. And most of our clients who've put in the time, they've done their work, they do their remedials daily, they will respond faster and recover faster to these types of injuries. And once they do, then they, they really appreciate what that capacity means, what that resiliency means, and it builds, it, it builds a real assurance and certainty for moving forward. So then that, I think that's what you're describing. Scott Kuhta: Absolutely. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. All right. Well, let me read our insight here today, and, hopefully that spurs a, maybe a, a few more stories. So we'll jump into Ash Barty's little journey here. Poised to recover. [00:16:00] In the two thousand and twenty-one French Open, Ash Barty injured her groin, making her unable to complete the tournament. But the bigger concern was that it was twenty-one days before Wimbledon. Wimbledon being one of the most prestigious and important tournaments of the year and of any tennis player's career. An MRI confirmed that there was a ten-centimeter tear in her adductor muscle, which is one of the upper muscles of the hamstring often called the groin. Barty, her team, physical trainer, and physical therapist decided they were going to give it a shot to be able to play Wimbledon. They rented a house in London and spent the next few days doing treatment and exercise, and most importantly, having fun. They had cooking competitions, relaxed with games, and at one point, Barty used a scooter inside the house, gradually putting weight on her leg. Childlike and fun. As Barty made [00:17:00] progress, her trainers and therapists continued to be concerned. She was still having trouble bearing weight on the leg and continued to have considerable pain. Her team did not think she would be able to play. Approximately ten days before the tournament, they got a new MRI. Barty told her team she didn't want to know the details of the scan. Her team tells her it has improved, and therefore they decided to press on. Over the next week, Barty's progress was slow. She was playing and practicing at fifty to seventy-five percent. The first match at Wimbledon, she was not at one hundred percent, was guarded, but through grit and cunning, she won the match. The second match was a similar effort, where she graded her stress on her body and her injury at about ninety percent of her potential. Again, it was enough to win. By the third match, she felt as though she wasn't even thinking about the injury. [00:18:00] She could play freely and at her normal intensity. She would go on to win Wimbledon and start her ascension to number one in the world. Importantly, Barty and her team continued the same relaxed and childlike activities throughout the tournament. She read spy thriller novels, seven books in two weeks. Many wonderful and fascinating elements to Barty's journey are described in her memoir, My Dream Time. One of the more relevant lessons for resiliency is what her team told her after the tournament. The second MRI showed only minimal changes to the injury. She still had a ten-centimeter tear in her groin. There are numerous pain and injury observations within this story. It is likely that Barty's poise before, during, and after her injury is what made the difference. At every stage, before the injury, during the [00:19:00] rehab, and returning to performance. Relax, contract, relax. Recent publications suggest fifty to eighty-five percent of all medical intervention successes are placebo-influenced. This does not mean that physical therapy, medications, or surgery are not useful and beneficial. It does not mean that it is all in our mind. It does mean that the mind matters. It suggests that you, the patient, the individual, plays a big role. And in concert with this story, it's in your best interest to learn what it takes and what you need to do to attain and sustain poise All right, there we go. So Does that, does that trigger anything, Scott? Scott Kuhta: Yeah. I [00:20:00] think as I relate that to my knowledge about pain and the work that I've done, one thing that I've learned is that not to make pain my identity. And if you can, if you're, if all you think about is your pain, then that's all you'll feel is pain. I... Back when I was really struggling, I didn't wanna do anything. And I was just in a really bad state. And my amazing wife, Kirsten, she was struggling trying to figure out how to help me, and she brought, brought a game. I can't remember what game it was. It might've been cribbage or something else, something easy to play while you're laying down. And so we played a game, and for that, those 20 minutes, all I was thinking about, was playing the game, [00:21:00] and that, that distraction helped me relax and that helped in those moments. And then I think just in general, the more you think about the pain, the more intense your pain's going to be. So if you can find other ways to enjoy life without the pain, playing games, going for a walk, just doing things that, that you enjoy, that certainly has helped me in my journey. Playing music. I love playing music, and once I was able to sit more, I've been playing a lot more guitar, so that's been really helpful. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. Wonderful. Yes, I certainly know you've had a lot of, a lot of really good experiences and knowledge and help all along this way, and it seemed like [00:22:00] there was, there was just a number of times there as, as we're working through things and you're just rocking and rolling now. I wanna say, you know, you're back to all of your activities. You just went to this music camp and then you were talking to me about that before the podcast, how much fun that was. And I think reaching this thriving point just required a few, a few moments of accumulation where, all these, these pieces kinda came together for you. And, I know in, in our conversations several times, you would have some new, some new signals And, I would show you your measurements, your assessments, how you're moving better. And it [00:23:00] seemed like just a combination of those things. We had you, swinging, swinging tennis rackets, throwing balls, that, you know, there came a point where it clicked. And I think that's a message for a lot of folks who maybe are on that journey, that, there are ups and downs, over three years, five years, six months timelines. And if you just, stay within those lanes, stay on your process, there's gonna be good times. There's gonna be good things around the bend Scott Kuhta: Yeah. I think the challenge for me, and probably a lot of people, was that, you know, you are staying in your lane, and I stayed in my lane, for sure. I mean, I did exactly what I was told to do. But you still... there's still times you wanna test it a little bit. Clayton Skaggs: Mm. Scott Kuhta: Because if you don't test it, you're not [00:24:00] going to kinda take that next step. And, honestly, I think that when you suggested doing some racket swings to help with muscle activation, that was a little nervous to me because, you know, it's an athletic move, and we're swinging left hand and right hand, and you wanted it to be more athletic than just standing and swatting like, like you're swatting a fly. But now I do that every day before I start my workout, and it just gets my body stimulated and activated. And also, as I've been progressing through my workouts with Melissa, we've been introducing some new exercises that frankly, had me a little bit nervous and... early on, maybe a year ago. And now when I get something introduced, I don't have any, I don't have any [00:25:00] fear because I know that I've built my system, my muscle mass, and my activity levels have been such... I'm pushing a lot of weight, like more weight than I've maybe have ever, ever have in my life now. And, I just know that I can handle whatever is the next thing. Because I also know that I trust, which is a big part of this program, is trusting my practitioners and knowing that they're not going to have me do something that's going to hurt me, so. Clayton Skaggs: Mm. I love, I love hearing that. And, you know, our team is certainly incredible there, at the institute and that is something we try to foster, and develop over time. And, it's key. I've had numerous clients recently who, who, who really remark on the [00:26:00] trust and familiarity that they have with our team is what gives them, gives them the certainty to move forward. And, in our, in our day of, fast, fast information, often fast-moving medical care, I think that's, that's a meaningful thing Scott Kuhta: It, it is. And I think another, another component to this program is that it's not a six-week fix. Our medical system seems to be geared, especially with rehab, to be like a six-week or two-month fix. And if you are starting where I started from, and you told me it's gonna be two years I intuitively knew it was gonna take a while because it'd been-- I'd been... it took me a [00:27:00] lifetime to get to where I was of sports and bad, form and just a body that was-- that needed a lot of work. So just a, I guess just a message for everybody that, that it takes-- it, it'll take some time, but the time will be so rewarding because you will see progress as you move through the different phases. Clayton Skaggs: I love that. Yeah. Each time I draw out my, my graphic of, okay, you, when you got here, how long do you think it took you to get here, with your condition? And, and almost everyone said, "Oh, a long time. Ten, you know, 10 years, decades." And, then when I add the perspective, well, then what's reasonable in terms of time for you to recover is not one [00:28:00] month or, or two months. And, what we've seen at the institute is it's usually about two years to restore what's taken decades to get you here. And, I always get just, a high percentage of nods, nods of agreement on that. "Well, yeah. That-- I guess that makes sense." And at the same time, they, they're often not being prompted that in, with the medical care. And so... Or they've made, they've made jumps on that different perspective, before getting to us. But once you lay it out logically, almost everyone goes, "Oh yeah, that does make sense." Scott Kuhta: Yeah, sure. And also that this becomes a lifestyle. This is not something where you're fixed, you know, you're fixed in air quotes. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. Scott Kuhta: Yeah. After two or three years, I'm, You know, again, I'm on my third year, [00:29:00] but it's, it's a lifetime moving forward and continuing to do the work to make sure that I don't end up where I was and to live the life that I want to live. So it, it will be with me for as long as I can lift weights and stand on one leg. Clayton Skaggs: Hmm, hmm. I love that. I love that. And, I love when clients are talking about being excited about continuing on, and, that fits with our phrase of you, we get to keep working at this. We get to keep working at being the greatest of all time for ourselves. Scott Kuhta: Yes. Clayton Skaggs: Well, wonderful, Scott. Well, this has been a great conversation. I think some really good pieces for others out there who are on a similar journey and who are maybe with us or not with us yet. [00:30:00] Any last, maybe comments that you'd like to add? Scott Kuhta: You know, I would just offer that if anybody out there is interested in my journey and my experience, if they wanna contact the clinic, I'll just let everybody know that I'd be happy to talk to anybody about my journey. And I'm just thankful that I found Dr. Skaggs and Melissa and the rest of the team at CIHP and I appreciate all the time and effort that they've put into me. So thank you. Clayton Skaggs: Well, thank you, Scott. That's very generous. And, I look forward to more. Look forward to- You bet ... a whole lot more with you guys. Scott Kuhta: Me too. Clayton Skaggs: Thank you for joining us for another Power of Doing What Matters podcast. Imagine 100 million people doing what [00:31:00] matters. 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