Latest / Authentic Living / Navigating crisis management with Natasha Konstantinova: empathy, teamw ork, and psychological strategies

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Navigating crisis management with Natasha Konstantinova: empathy, teamw ork, and psychological strategies · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:38
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:38
  It's Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:40
  Thanks for tuning in again, this week.
• 0:42
  Today, I have I'm gonna see a friend that I met in Rome, Natasha Castanova.
• 0:49
  I and I'm getting that right this time.
• 0:51
  See, I've been practicing.
• 0:53
  And we met at a women's conference in Rome where we both spoke and since then we've,
• 1:00
  stayed connected and have become friends.
• 1:02
  But today, more importantly, the reason I asked Natasha to join us is attachment brings a
• 1:09
  perspective to the business world that I think most leaders need to focus on, which is about
• 1:15
  how do we function through a crisis, but stay connected and still run our businesses.
• 1:25
  And I And Natasha is business is called Reputation Science, and she's a communication
• 1:31
  specialist.
• 1:32
  So, Natasha, thanks so much for spending the time with us today.
• 1:36
  Thank you for having me, Roxanne.
• 1:38
  I'm finally happy to be on this show.
• 1:41
  We've been trying for over a year.
• 1:43
  I would say to get it done.
• 1:45
  Yeah.
• 1:45
  So, Tasha, tell us a little bit about your background and what gets you to the point where
• 1:51
  you're working with communication and reputation today.
• 1:57
  Wow.
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  Where do you start?
• 1:59
  Wherever you'd like.
• 2:00
  Yes.
• 2:02
  My background actually goes all the way back to when it was little.
• 2:09
  Our girl, and I started playing piano, singing in a choir, and I wanted to become a musician.
• 2:14
  I wanted to become a choir director.
• 2:17
  And my dream come came through.
• 2:20
  I have become a client conductor.
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  I studied music for more than 25 years.
• 2:27
  And just when I was about to graduate from the university where I studied music, I started
• 2:33
  taking classes in teaching management communication PR.
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  And I thought that was so interesting.
• 2:42
  And I thought that's it.
• 2:43
  I'm gonna get another degree, and that's gonna be all around repetition communication and PR.
• 2:49
  So I did that.
• 2:50
  I got my degree, and Before I knew, I landed in the corporate world, which something I never
• 2:59
  believed I would be working for.
• 3:03
  And, actually, I really enjoyed being in a corporate world And from there, my career
• 3:09
  really went into the direction of repetition management, communications, PR, There is
• 3:16
  leadership roles.
• 3:17
  And about 5 years ago, I left the corporate world, and I started my own company And the
• 3:26
  reason I would say I started my own company is because it was 2020.
• 3:32
  The COVID just hit.
• 3:35
  And I was still thinking what am I gonna do next?
• 3:38
  And friend of mine who became a partner said to me, why don't you bring your crisis management
• 3:45
  expertise and start helping people around, start training people.
• 3:51
  And that's true.
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  In my corporate world, I've been doing a lot of crisis management.
• 3:56
  I was running corporate crisis response teams.
• 3:59
  I was leading those teams.
• 4:01
  I was training executives leaders.
• 4:03
  So crisis is something that I felt I knew, and a crisis is something that kind of became my
• 4:11
  game.
• 4:12
  And so before I knew, I started my own business reputation science, and I started offering
• 4:20
  trainings and also helping organizations to manage crisis as being an a third person, a
• 4:28
  consultant.
• 4:29
  And I've been doing it ever since together with many other things that I do today as part of my
• 4:34
  business.
• 4:36
  But training artists had to manage crisis, managing crisis.
• 4:41
  That's still a big part of what I do and a big part of what I actually really like doing.
• 4:48
  So I'm curious.
• 4:50
  I gotta we did not discuss this, but I How do you manage prices?
• 4:54
  As a leader, you're running reputation science and you're dealing with multiple, generally
• 5:00
  when the phone's ringing, It's because there has been a crisis that's present or there is
• 5:06
  potentially been a crisis where there's been gaps that people recognize they need skills.
• 5:11
  But how do you kind of manage
• 5:13
  all these moving?
• 5:14
  I'm gonna say moving balls
• 5:16
  Yeah.
• 5:16
  In your portfolio.
• 5:20
  So because I've been managing crisis for, I'd say, more than 20 years, you kind of become
• 5:27
  attuned to it.
• 5:29
  And when that phone rings, and normally it happens late at night or during the week,
• 5:35
  during the bank holidays.
• 5:36
  So when you just land on another part of the world and you just, you know, leave the
• 5:41
  airplane and your phone rings, you become right immune.
• 5:46
  And you sort of know it's a crisis, and you have to deal with that, and you have to take
• 5:53
  time, listen, accept, and don't fight, and don't panic.
• 5:58
  So that's one thing.
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  You become immune to some extent, tuned to it.
• 6:03
  You just do it because that's what you do that because that's part of your job.
• 6:07
  Mhmm.
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  And I think by also training and managing prices, you'll also train yourself
• 6:13
  continuously.
• 6:16
  And that level of threat or shock that is normally present for any other person, any
• 6:26
  healthy human being that experiences a crisis, that level is probably a little bit down
• 6:33
  because you're new and you've practiced and you've been through that situations.
• 6:37
  And, you know, you better, do what you preach to others.
• 6:40
  You better walk the talk.
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  And a number one takeaway or guidance I would give to anyone if crisis happens, stop whatever
• 6:51
  you're doing, give you a full attention and accept that and embrace it.
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  Do not fire crisis because it's useless.
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  It's gonna fire back generally in life accepting things, it can be really really
• 7:05
  valuable and very useful thing to do.
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  And so I walked at home.
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  I just accepted, and I think, alright.
• 7:13
  We had some plans.
• 7:14
  We have to put those plants aside.
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  And you have to give you full attention and deal with that either for yourself or your
• 7:20
  client, for your own company, whatever it is.
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  So that's my
• 7:26
  Yeah.
• 7:26
  Within that moment, when, you know, when a crisis happens, whether it's like you said,
• 7:31
  like, a hot it'd be a hostage shaking or you know, some other maybe you realize that there's
• 7:37
  a a multinational with a business units that they have to kind of several.
• 7:43
  That's it could be a different kind of crisis, but what we know psychologically within 24
• 7:47
  hours, I think of all the multiple ones that I've done as a psychologist when we would come
• 7:52
  in within 24 hours.
• 7:53
  And what do we need as human beings?
• 7:55
  We need just education within 24 hours and educating the environments so that rather
• 8:02
  whether you're the type that becomes kind of hyperactive or hypo, which is either I'm
• 8:07
  freaking out or I'm kind of frozen just to recognize that you're gonna get that variety of
• 8:13
  impressions or reactions from individuals, and there's no right or wrong way for people to
• 8:18
  react to crises.
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  Right?
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  Because people would say, yeah, person's in the corner there, and then they're they're kind of
• 8:24
  giggling Roxanne in, and that doesn't make sense.
• 8:27
  And I go, you know, it's the both the normalizing element because that's how their
• 8:31
  body is reacting.
• 8:32
  It doesn't that they're trying to usurp potentially what's occurring.
• 8:36
  Yeah.
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  And, unfortunately, I think in the business world and my experience in the corporate world,
• 8:42
  it doesn't happen often.
• 8:45
  First of all, it's expected to respond in a certain way when a crisis happens.
• 8:51
  Most of the time, if you're a leader, you expected to pretend.
• 8:55
  You have it under control.
• 8:56
  You put the mask.
• 8:58
  You strunk.
• 8:59
  You're gonna do it.
• 9:00
  You're gonna take everybody through this.
• 9:02
  Crisis.
• 9:02
  But as a human being, you're always always going to have a response to a crisis.
• 9:08
  And no matter how resilient you are, no matter how fast you can bounce, back to that moment
• 9:14
  where you before the crisis, I think we're all gonna have a a response and reaction.
• 9:20
  And we're all going to have very, very different, responses and reactions.
• 9:25
  And I've seen many times, unfortunately, leaders don't do not necessarily see the see
• 9:33
  that or pay attention to that.
• 9:36
  Mhmm.
• 9:36
  And I
• 9:37
  you know, that's interesting.
• 9:39
  Right?
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  Because what you're saying is as leaders, when you're hired for whatever position, there's an
• 9:46
  acumen or a capacity that you're looking for that I can kind of maintain a certain level.
• 9:52
  But I'm also a human being that is maybe has similarity to we call it centers of reference
• 10:00
  that's closer.
• 10:02
  Right, to the events.
• 10:03
  So I might be more reactive because, you know, maybe a child was involved or maybe It was a
• 10:10
  person of of a certain age, and it reminds you of someone in your life, potentially.
• 10:16
  So those parallels, the closer that they become, the more reactivity you might have,
• 10:21
  even though that person may be maintained the composure, we get impacted based on how the
• 10:26
  event might be closer or potentially been something that maybe we've experienced before
• 10:32
  or might be concerned about for the future as well.
• 10:35
  Yeah.
• 10:35
  I can see that too.
• 10:36
  Yeah.
• 10:36
  Yeah.
• 10:37
  Yeah.
• 10:37
  And, obviously, in the business world, crisis could be anything.
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  It could be a cyber attack.
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  It could be a product recall.
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  It could be unethical behavior of even your employees or customers, distributors.
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  It could be a IT system shut down.
• 10:52
  It could be just anything
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  Right.
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  And we think we are prepared in reality is probably not.
• 11:01
  Would like to think we are.
• 11:03
  Yeah.
• 11:04
  Yeah.
• 11:04
  So let's let's talk.
• 11:06
  From a corporate's perspective, obviously, you've been doing this a long time, but
• 11:11
  Obviously, with the pandemic, we were full tilt, pervasive feeling was something that we
• 11:17
  all were dealing with.
• 11:19
  What did you kind of experience through that time with the with the clients that you were
• 11:24
  dealing with.
• 11:25
  The ones that were kinda right on the board and to get it done right.
• 11:29
  And the others that kinda stuck their head in the sand or the one that are like, I don't know
• 11:33
  what to do.
• 11:33
  Kind of tell me what that time was like for the companies that you work with.
• 11:38
  Yeah.
• 11:38
  I think all of those reactions, and it was, for some people, ready to fight, some people
• 11:45
  complete free, some people ready to flee.
• 11:48
  I think also depends on the nature of crisis, but there's one thing that I've noticed was,
• 11:55
  like, a red line throughout all this crisis.
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  And that's something that started coming up more and more is that our personal
• 12:05
  psychological response to crisis.
• 12:09
  Yeah.
• 12:09
  That's something I've never seen before.
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  And, you know, with every client, with every work I did or a training I did, I had more and
• 12:18
  more requests from people saying, I also want to understand better how can I respond to that?
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  Would I do with my emotions, with my emotional response?
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  And it was striking to see how many people really wanted to understand and learn and be
• 12:38
  better at that, especially leaders because they went crisis themselves.
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  The organization was in crisis.
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  You know, the world and crisis.
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  And then on top of it, something else was happening.
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  So I think for many of them, it was a challenge.
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  Like, how do they maintain their imposure?
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  How do they how they continue to lead others in navigating crisis?
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  While being under so much pressure and having their own response, emotional response to it.
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  So that's something that was, for me, like, new different, but also something that made me
• 13:14
  realize that's actually good.
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  What is happening?
• 13:18
  Because I would I would absolutely agree because We've known that that's a reality
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  that's Yeah.
• 13:24
  We bring our personal selves to work.
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  Right?
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  I I would think of myself, and I've been out of the corporate sector now for about 14 years, a
• 13:31
  little bit longer than you.
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  And I remember, you know, when we let's say I have a significant ad one particular account
• 13:39
  that was a pretty multinational when we were in the process of maybe using it.
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  And every subset of pieces of that business that thought we were losing it was impact.
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  We were all swirling like those plates at the, you know, at the circus.
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  Right?
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  Where because it was, you know, like a like a, you know, a multimillion dollar contract, and
• 14:01
  everybody was having responses.
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  And I remember back in time, I'm talking, you know, the, you know, mid 2000s.
• 14:08
  It was like, you know, suck it up buttercup.
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  Move along.
• 14:14
  Figure it out and, you know, we don't have any room a place for that.
• 14:18
  And I think the pandemic has finally tilted that that we can see now.
• 14:24
  It's okay.
• 14:25
  So head hits your red line because the pervasiveness that we've been needing for
• 14:30
  years.
• 14:31
  Has been allowed.
• 14:33
  Yep.
• 14:34
  Totally.
• 14:34
  Totally agree.
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  And I think for me, it brought an additional dimension or element, how I bring crisis
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  management to the organizations, and also how I train people And now when I train leaders and,
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  you know, we spend significant amount of time talking about their own response.
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  And I tell them, you know, feel free to feel.
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  That's actually normal.
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  That's okay.
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  And, you know, write your emotions, just make sure you don't drown in your emotions.
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  And, you know, and we also discussed, like, what happens in your brain, the limbic system,
• 15:14
  what's going for that process, and people got That's interesting.
• 15:19
  Yeah.
• 15:19
  Now I understand what's happening with me.
• 15:21
  Yeah.
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  I call it the sir.
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  I call it the surge.
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  Right?
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  Like, I mean, so Yeah.
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  You know, when when something happens, that's out of the ordinary, I'll say the front part of
• 15:30
  the, you know, the boss of the brain says, going on extended vacation, Right?
• 15:34
  The middle part of the brain kinda lights up like a Christmas tree, and that's where all the
• 15:38
  emotions are.
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  And then the back part of the brain you know, creates a surge which is adrenaline and
• 15:44
  cortisol that goes through your entire system so you can survive.
• 15:47
  We're all wired to be able to do that naturally, but we're not thinking that's gonna
• 15:52
  be every, you know, 10 minutes, right, let's say, right, that cumulative effect.
• 15:57
  And I think when people start to are able to be given permission to recognize that that's a
• 16:03
  normative way in Natasha, What happens is that now leaders go, wow.
• 16:08
  I I guess that does happen to me.
• 16:10
  And what what am I reading?
• 16:12
  How do I react Like, in my work with the my new book, I really openly talk to leaders about
• 16:18
  what is your stress response?
• 16:20
  What are the high and low points of your business?
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  What are the pressure points?
• 16:24
  Mhmm.
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  What stage and age of development is your team?
• 16:27
  And how many change has changes has your company been through in the last 6 months.
• 16:31
  And then they go, well, Roxanne.
• 16:34
  And then they start to kind of look at it from that frame to say, uh-huh.
• 16:39
  Now I see how my response is being impacted with everybody.
• 16:44
  That's kinda within that ten foot radius of me.
• 16:47
  Right?
• 16:47
  And able to drill down to say if I'm able to find that space within myself and I give myself
• 16:55
  grace, I would say.
• 16:56
  Then I'm able to kind of take care of myself and then in turn allow others around me to do
• 17:02
  the same.
• 17:03
  Absolutely.
• 17:04
  And I think in in when it comes to managing an organizational crisis, what I also tell people,
• 17:11
  because what happens in your brain in the first I don't know, 30 minutes, and you probably know
• 17:15
  that more from science, because of what happens in the brain, sometimes neurons, they stop
• 17:22
  firing work.
• 17:23
  Right?
• 17:23
  Your limbic system is not working.
• 17:26
  And even if you're trying to come up with that best solution, what do you need to do in order
• 17:31
  to manage this crisis mitigated, your brain is just not working, or it's not working the way
• 17:37
  it should be working.
• 17:38
  So I tell them, you know, just even stop Don't push yourself.
• 17:42
  Don't rush to make that decision in the beginning.
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  And in the op on the opposite, I tell, you know, allow that reaction to yourself to up and
• 17:51
  acknowledge those emotions, those feelings, live with it, you know, friend them Say, come
• 17:59
  here, beautiful monsters.
• 18:01
  That's okay.
• 18:02
  What's happening?
• 18:03
  And then start thinking, what am I gonna do going forward?
• 18:08
  And that's also gonna help you to make the right decisions.
• 18:12
  And that's what's the what's the Maglia, which is the alarm bell in the brain hijacks your
• 18:18
  brain, that it I call it impaired thinking, right, because re quite literally, it's like
• 18:23
  impaired driving.
• 18:24
  If you're intoxicated, it's impaired thinking.
• 18:27
  So the trajectory of decisions can't get you can make not so good decisions at that point.
• 18:33
  So like you said, just kinda name it.
• 18:36
  What what is it that I'm experiencing?
• 18:38
  Okay.
• 18:39
  Is this normal for me?
• 18:40
  Oh, yeah.
• 18:40
  That's kinda normal.
• 18:41
  If I look at other prices in my life, this is kind of my physiological cognitive emotional
• 18:46
  response.
• 18:47
  Yeah.
• 18:48
  Right?
• 18:48
  What what do I need to kind of, knowledge to be able to bring back on the prefrontal or the
• 18:53
  logical, part of the brain.
• 18:56
  Right?
• 18:56
  And it's hard when it's off because, logically, you're not you're not able to recognize it
• 19:02
  without the court.
• 19:03
  So I'm assuming any trainings.
• 19:05
  That's something that leaders are starting to be open to learning about how they can deal
• 19:10
  with that impact.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:12
  I think it's big a moment.
• 19:15
  Yeah.
• 19:15
  And that's great.
• 19:16
  But it's also an a moment in any situation.
• 19:20
  Not necessarily a large crisis.
• 19:22
  And I think it's a big part of leadership as well, knowing yourself, acknowledging it for
• 19:28
  yourself, Right?
• 19:29
  And like I said, inviting those emotions or out of feelings or whatever is happening, friending
• 19:37
  them as opposed to pushing them away and putting that mask that often is not gonna be
• 19:43
  very helpful, actually.
• 19:45
  So let's talk a little bit about, I would say that the more senior you get, the expectation
• 19:50
  is that you are able to kind of mitigate those responses And if you look at CEOs are listening
• 19:57
  or senior leadership teams, I would say that they're like, yeah, but business has to go on.
• 20:03
  Natasha and Roxanne.
• 20:05
  Tell us a little bit about kind of, you know, the kind of the business, you know, metric for
• 20:11
  why it's important to manage crises.
• 20:14
  We're not you're not saying to Stifle.
• 20:16
  You're not saying to completely be undistregulated where you're not gonna
• 20:20
  function.
• 20:20
  What you're asking about certain level of acumen so business continuity can occur.
• 20:26
  So talk let's talk a little bit about that.
• 20:29
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  I think what I teach or preach, I call it, like, a 4 a's when a crisis happen, accept,
• 20:40
  assess, align, and adapt.
• 20:43
  And within those 4 a's, basically, what I'm saying, accept the when it happens, except your
• 20:49
  own response team, your emotional, your physiological response team, start collecting
• 20:55
  facts So assess the situation, what is happening, collect all the facts, understand is
• 21:02
  there severity of crisis as bad as we think Then also start assessing and prioritizing what
• 21:08
  can go wrong, wrong, what can go right, and to what extent it can go wrong, what is my plan a?
• 21:15
  What's my plan b?
• 21:16
  What's my plan c?
• 21:17
  You know, I'm I'm never happy with one plan.
• 21:19
  I always coach people and work with people to say, let's have at least 3 plants, plan a, what
• 21:25
  can go right, and what is the ideal plan, plan b, what can go wrong, and what is okay that I'm
• 21:30
  going to accept.
• 21:32
  And then once things starts going wrong, what can we do about it?
• 21:38
  And what I always say, no matter what, also, look look for your employees, whether if it's
• 21:45
  an organization.
• 21:47
  Make sure you care about the well-being safety because employees is like your main assets in
• 21:56
  the business.
• 21:57
  Right?
• 21:57
  That's the best thing you can have.
• 21:59
  The products, obviously, is a great thing to have, but your employees are critically
• 22:04
  important.
• 22:05
  And then what I'm also saying, continue flying the plane.
• 22:10
  You might have been crazy, but the business has to go on.
• 22:15
  One way or another.
• 22:16
  If you're gonna put everything on hold, you don't know how long this crisis might last
• 22:21
  Mhmm.
• 22:22
  Might go up 24 hours.
• 22:23
  It might take 48, it might take a few weeks, few months.
• 22:26
  Who knows?
• 22:27
  But the business cannot wait.
• 22:28
  You know, you cannot tell the business to you tomorrow once I'm once once I'm done with my
• 22:33
  crisis now.
• 22:34
  And the customers, the partners, the suppliers, you know, they also They're part of the
• 22:39
  ecosystem.
• 22:39
  They cannot wait either.
• 22:40
  So I keep saying keep flying the plane.
• 22:43
  So access and prioritize what needs more priority in your business.
• 22:47
  What are the more critical eyes?
• 22:49
  What are more critical functions or departments of the business?
• 22:53
  What's needed more attention?
• 22:55
  And for some people, it might be one part of the business.
• 22:58
  For some, it could be a few, but, again, that part of the work that needs to be done.
• 23:04
  And that's where not a critical element comes in.
• 23:08
  You cannot manage business organizational crisis by yourself.
• 23:12
  So you cannot fly solo.
• 23:14
  You need a team and, you know, crisis management team support.
• 23:18
  You really need to team up with your team.
• 23:21
  You need to have the team that is helping you to manage you need to align.
• 23:25
  You need to reach out to your stakeholders, your partners.
• 23:30
  You need to ask for help as well, and that's okay to ask for help.
• 23:33
  And, again, I think the old idea of managing crisis is we just keep all the information for
• 23:40
  ourselves.
• 23:40
  We don't share with anyone.
• 23:43
  We hope that the crisis will go away and it doesn't have any implication in our business,
• 23:47
  so we don't share it with anyone.
• 23:49
  Zip.
• 23:50
  That's what work these days.
• 23:51
  So I also encourage people, you know, reach out, know who your stakeholders are and reach
• 23:56
  out to those stakeholders also on the and how the stakeholders could be impacted, what's in
• 24:01
  it for them, what's in it for you.
• 24:02
  They might be a great partner for you in this crisis.
• 24:06
  And and as you go, I always say, you know, be consistent in what you said you're gonna do,
• 24:13
  but still reserve the right to adapt once you see how the situation is going.
• 24:21
  You know, there might be new facts coming up.
• 24:23
  There might be some, like, factors that are impacting this particular crisis.
• 24:28
  So you always have to be agile and navigate as you go.
• 24:34
  And like I said, working with the team teaming up with other stats is critical as anything
• 24:39
  else.
• 24:40
  And then, of course, know, there's a whole different story about communication and
• 24:45
  Right.
• 24:45
  And that's what I was saying because if I'm the CEO and I'm a hyperfunctioner, I generally
• 24:50
  could keep it kind of you know, kind of fluid and available.
• 24:55
  I might be having all this stuff happening behind the house, but I'm managing.
• 24:58
  I'm I'm doing all the self care things.
• 25:00
  But communication becomes key at this point, whatever you filtered down.
• 25:04
  And I, you know, I give examples.
• 25:06
  When I was in corporate, I sometimes there would be if it's, you know, we're responding.
• 25:11
  There's been a suicide at at a hotel at a major, chain.
• 25:15
  Right?
• 25:16
  So I would be kind of deploying the teams and those things, but then we would work with
• 25:21
  strategy around, okay, This is a huge multinational.
• 25:26
  Right?
• 25:27
  What are how hosp you know, hotels about or about people having experiences?
• 25:31
  Yes.
• 25:31
  It's business travel, but there's families, all those things.
• 25:34
  You know, how are you kind of dispensing the information across the board, you know, across
• 25:40
  every environment who's who are on you know, 1st of all, the the area that had occurred, you
• 25:47
  know, who needs to get involved, you know, how are you managing those people?
• 25:50
  But there's other people in those who hospitals maybe in Singapore compared to Toronto, but
• 25:56
  they've already heard about it.
• 25:57
  Yeah.
• 25:57
  And what are the facts and how will you taking a hold of that.
• 26:01
  So I, you know, really interested in kind of the, you know, how the CEO or the senior team
• 26:09
  copes, first of all, becomes vital, and then how, you know, how are they able to communicate
• 26:14
  to the direct reports.
• 26:16
  And like you said, the stakeholders, the customers, the front book facing customer, you
• 26:20
  know, all those things become very, very important.
• 26:23
  Right?
• 26:24
  I think the communication is the backbone of any crisis management.
• 26:29
  In fact, communication, I think is the backbone of any human interactions.
• 26:33
  Leadership organizations, crisis, you name it.
• 26:37
  I think it's such a important backbone.
• 26:39
  And often, probably don't give enough attention or we think we're good at it.
• 26:44
  In reality, you know, as I see sometimes one wrong word, especially in crisis when it's, you
• 26:51
  know, poor words or poor choice of word or poor timing, you can actually damage your
• 26:57
  reputation.
• 26:57
  It can damage your business.
• 27:00
  Your stock price and, you know, then you end up spending months regaining that reputation and
• 27:05
  business that you probably had before crisis.
• 27:12
  And so, yeah, a good communication is, I would say, probably 50% of navigating any crisis.
• 27:20
  That's the communication, the timely communication, the the choice communication,
• 27:26
  the the empathy, the humility, and how you communicate.
• 27:30
  Mhmm.
• 27:31
  And I would say you know, probably 10 years ago, I would say how fast you need to respond
• 27:39
  to crisis to stakeholders, internally and externally, and say, you know, you might take a
• 27:44
  a day sometimes maybe not more than 10 years ago.
• 27:47
  But today, I would say if you did not address your crisis within an hour or 3 hours?
• 27:54
  Wow.
• 27:54
  An hour to 3 hours.
• 27:56
  Right?
• 27:56
  Like, I mean, it's not but, of course, with the digital world now, people are already talking
• 28:02
  about it.
• 28:02
  And, you know, probably if you don't get into the if you don't get into that within that hour
• 28:07
  or 3, and I always go to when they're when the when people don't know the facts, they they're
• 28:12
  this is where the rumor mongering comes about.
• 28:15
  And then, you know, like, when we would do trauma response teams, we would get who was
• 28:21
  actually at the event.
• 28:22
  We would get the fur let's say that shift that, you know, the person that found, let's say,
• 28:27
  using the suicide, who was the first person that found, you know, what what happened next
• 28:32
  to kind of, you know, like with stories, you know, you're you're a communication expert and
• 28:38
  trauma or traumatic events or crisis events, there's no methodical beginning to middle and
• 28:43
  end.
• 28:44
  So of course, from psych a psychological perspective, we're trying to create context to
• 28:49
  allow people to get to try to create beginning middle and end.
• 28:53
  As much as possible.
• 28:55
  Yeah.
• 28:55
  And within that 1 to 3 hour window, Natasha, that makes sense that you need that because, of
• 29:01
  course, the rapid rapidity of what communication is like.
• 29:04
  Out there now.
• 29:04
  10 years ago, yeah, you're right.
• 29:06
  It was kinda, different, but now it's it's a little bit it's so rapid.
• 29:10
  Right?
• 29:11
  It is.
• 29:12
  And as you say, if you don't say it, somebody else was restart will start telling your story,
• 29:17
  and that story might not be the one that you want to hear or be associated with.
• 29:24
  And, unfortunately, I think statistically, Please 50% of all the companies take about 24
• 29:32
  hours to respond to a crisis.
• 29:34
  And typically, the way it goes you know, you have a crisis, then the communication team
• 29:40
  needs to come up with a strategy, then the leadership needs to approve it.
• 29:45
  So that can take a while sometimes.
• 29:47
  Unless it's a smaller company, very, very small and not hierarchical, they're probably the
• 29:53
  process can be really fast.
• 29:56
  And, unfortunately, there are many examples, you know, take Boeing, take BP, take Equifax
• 30:03
  many, many companies that took probably a day at least to respond to crisis.
• 30:11
  So their response was delayed.
• 30:12
  They didn't take accountability.
• 30:15
  They didn't, acknowledge what was happening in general.
• 30:20
  And in 24 hours, a lot can happen.
• 30:23
  Right?
• 30:23
  A lot of stories can be generated as well.
• 30:27
  And so what I'm saying, you know, big quick strive to respond within an hour of 3 hours,
• 30:33
  you know, on your website or your social media.
• 30:35
  Of course, depends on the crisis to depends on the scale, depends on the company and
• 30:40
  operations, but week, week.
• 30:42
  And a few other things that I always say, like, a mantra like show empathy, show humility in
• 30:49
  any crisis.
• 30:50
  There's going to be human being, at least one human being involved.
• 30:55
  In any crisis will have a consequence and impact on human beings.
• 31:00
  You know, it could be could be very tragic and could be last soul, but still there are human
• 31:08
  beings and, you know, showing empathy.
• 31:12
  Change your humility telling people I care.
• 31:16
  I I hear you.
• 31:17
  I care.
• 31:18
  That can actually go a really long way.
• 31:22
  And many leaders are being judged by not showing empathy, by not being kind of forefront
• 31:27
  by not being fast enough.
• 31:29
  And that's, I guess, also, our human beings, how we judge others, how we look at others.
• 31:33
  And, you know, that's just an tations we have from leaders, especially after COVID.
• 31:38
  Like, we want to be we all want to be hurt.
• 31:40
  We all want to be empathize with, right, as human beings.
• 31:44
  That's our nature as well.
• 31:46
  Right.
• 31:46
  And it's it's quite the final I mean, I I I think that there's a juggling kind of scenario
• 31:51
  because I want you to show empathy but I want you to seem like you have a bit of control.
• 32:00
  And I want you to connect, but I want you to deliver.
• 32:03
  And I want you to give me trust that my stock prices is not gonna plummet.
• 32:09
  Absolutely.
• 32:10
  Right.
• 32:11
  So there's so many many moving tentacles to that.
• 32:15
  Natasha.
• 32:15
  That that's what you're saying.
• 32:17
  Like, when I work with with leaders, that's what I always say is, you know, how do you
• 32:21
  communicate?
• 32:22
  How do you connect how where are you?
• 32:24
  How do you make decisions?
• 32:25
  And how are you thinking about your teams and your culture all the time?
• 32:29
  Because you are the litmus test Right?
• 32:32
  So that's it's a lot of skills.
• 32:34
  I think running businesses leaders have, obviously, they're they've they've been in
• 32:39
  those positions because they've showed facility, but then the emotional end to this is
• 32:44
  the different metric that we're we're judging companies on today.
• 32:47
  And, of course, lead senior leaders as well.
• 32:50
  Yeah.
• 32:50
  Very, very true.
• 32:51
  Yeah.
• 32:51
  Managing crisis is it's like hiking or climbing plant and everest.
• 32:58
  You know, there's unpredictable weather.
• 33:00
  There is a safety of people around you.
• 33:03
  There is a predictable situation can happen.
• 33:06
  There is wellness, house.
• 33:08
  There is, you know, challenges that happen along the way.
• 33:13
  There's so much that goes into it, and it's It's not it's a skill.
• 33:18
  It's it's not that easy.
• 33:20
  I I absolutely feel sore sometimes for leaders that have to step up lead and they don't have
• 33:28
  prior knowledge or experience yet they try to show that they can do that and there are huge
• 33:34
  expectations from their colleague from the outside world.
• 33:38
  And, you know, sometimes they're not vulnerable enough to admit that, actually, I don't know
• 33:43
  how to do it.
• 33:44
  I'm just doing it intuitively.
• 33:45
  That's how I started.
• 33:46
  You know, I was doing it intuitively.
• 33:48
  That was a huge gray cloud of fear above me.
• 33:52
  Thinking.
• 33:52
  Imagine it right.
• 33:54
  Right.
• 33:54
  Whatever I say, whatever I do, will it impact the company's stock price and business continue
• 33:59
  to because nobody taught me that.
• 34:02
  And that's one of the reason I got also into crisis management because I thought I cannot
• 34:07
  continue suffering.
• 34:09
  Like that.
• 34:09
  I wanna learn.
• 34:10
  And I wanna help artists to learn and be better at it because, you know, crisis can also be an
• 34:16
  opportunity, and it's true.
• 34:17
  If you turn it around, like, in every crisis, there would be an opportunity into it.
• 34:22
  And there's always something that comes out of it at the very minimum, the learning that you
• 34:27
  take or the failure that made you to go through this crisis.
• 34:33
  It's it's definitely a huge opportunity to learn.
• 34:36
  And sometimes there are greater opportunities, same as in personal crisis, but you need to
• 34:41
  have a certain mindset and big willingness and openness to seed that way and be part of it.
• 34:49
  So, yeah, you know, you know, it's it's the leader dropping down into themselves to say you
• 34:55
  know, what are my patterns of behavior when there is a crisis?
• 35:00
  And coming in contact with that takes time and to figure it out within yourself and then
• 35:06
  figure out, you know, what do I do well, which I know a lot of leaders would do a lot of
• 35:10
  things well.
• 35:11
  What do I know I do poorly?
• 35:13
  And maybe what are those in between skills?
• 35:15
  Right?
• 35:16
  Like, the ones, you know, you should enhance.
• 35:18
  And that's what I often work with when there's when working with teams, let's say there's
• 35:22
  leadership teams, and leaders aren't doing it very well, but all of a sudden, they're gonna
• 35:25
  be the most authentic leader in the world.
• 35:28
  And I go, oh, no.
• 35:29
  No.
• 35:29
  No.
• 35:30
  Slow it out.
• 35:31
  Slow down.
• 35:32
  Slow down a little bit for us here and start where you are in that transparency.
• 35:37
  Like you said, that empathy or just say, you know, I haven't done so well.
• 35:41
  And I'm I'm probably not gonna do it well right now, but I'm acknowledging that is a starting
• 35:46
  point that I often say, with leaders in their teams or leadership teams as well.
• 35:51
  Right?
• 35:51
  Huge.
• 35:52
  And I've seen it enough in the corporate world where leader's text to me, they would not
• 35:57
  acknowledge it.
• 35:59
  They would manage it probably with a lot of fear behind them.
• 36:06
  Yeah.
• 36:06
  Yeah.
• 36:07
  And often, the outcomes would not be necessarily good for whatever reasons.
• 36:14
  Yeah.
• 36:14
  And that's that.
• 36:16
  Yes.
• 36:16
  It is.
• 36:16
  It is.
• 36:17
  But, you know, we're talking about it.
• 36:18
  So it shows you that compared to when I was in the corporate world, there's a whole lot of
• 36:22
  different Unfortunately, yeah, they're we've gone through some adverse things, which is
• 36:27
  created that red line, like you said, which I think is a positive space for us.
• 36:31
  So we have to, as leaders and people like you and I and the work that we do.
• 36:36
  We we have duty, I think, to share what we know so that scale enhancements and capacities on
• 36:42
  the increase.
• 36:43
  Now, Natasha, for anybody, let's say we're talking to some leadership teams and they're
• 36:48
  listening or even EOs and they're thinking, well, you know, I haven't really thought about
• 36:52
  these things that Natasha has shared today.
• 36:54
  What what kind of 3 things?
• 36:57
  Let's say you're kind of acknowledging.
• 36:59
  Maybe you haven't thought about crisis management at the level we've we've been
• 37:02
  talking about today.
• 37:04
  What are some maybe 1 or 2 things they where should they start?
• 37:11
  Good question.
• 37:11
  I don't know.
• 37:11
  That's a big question.
• 37:12
  I think I think the starting point would be to acknowledge that in today's world, no one is
• 37:21
  immune to a crisis, right, and can happen to anyone and any time.
• 37:29
  And while we cannot decide which crisis and when and where, I think it's up to us to decide
• 37:39
  how we're going to respond to it.
• 37:42
  And that's something universal to all crisis, and it's all done to us.
• 37:46
  We'll to us, and we always have a choice.
• 37:49
  Right?
• 37:50
  And by acknowledging that, by accepting that crisis can happen and by deciding that I'm
• 37:58
  going to learn about it and step in into it.
• 38:03
  And and maybe taken a few things what you and I have discussed, what it's communication with,
• 38:08
  it's taken accountability being quick.
• 38:11
  Being authentic showing empathy.
• 38:14
  That's, I think, a great starting point.
• 38:16
  Looking for people around you knowing who are your analyze who your stakeholders who you
• 38:22
  might need to reach out to.
• 38:26
  I know it's more than 3.
• 38:29
  That's okay.
• 38:30
  There's there's a there's a lot, but I think you're right.
• 38:32
  Just see acknowledging where you are.
• 38:36
  And saying, I don't have all the answers, but the you will create an unique identity about
• 38:41
  who you are as a leader and how you address concerns.
• 38:44
  I think if you can plan that flag as a beginner point, I think you'd be making some some
• 38:49
  significant strides.
• 38:51
  So, Natasha, I'm sure there's, people listening that would want to reach out and find out more
• 38:57
  about reputation science or some of the other things that you're doing in the world.
• 39:01
  So tell people a little bit about reputation science or where you'd like them to get ahold
• 39:06
  of you.
• 39:07
  Thank you, Roxanne.
• 39:09
  Well, first of all, I am on LinkedIn, so happy to connect with anyone on LinkedIn.
• 39:14
  And the website is reputationhyphenscience.com.
• 39:20
  And I'm sure Roxanne, we can put it somewhere in the notes as well.
• 39:25
  And what is it that I I do?
• 39:27
  I do actually a number of things.
• 39:29
  I work as a crisis adviser and trainer for companies.
• 39:33
  I also work as a responder if you like to help organizations to manage crisis.
• 39:39
  And I have a few other things that keep me busy, what is, totally the shape again working
• 39:45
  with executives individually or with their organizations on executive leadership presence,
• 39:53
  positioning communications.
• 39:55
  But the end of at the end of the day, what I say make your reputation work for you, not
• 40:01
  against you.
• 40:03
  So invest a little bit in rep teach and management, whether it's for yourself, whether
• 40:08
  it's for your company.
• 40:10
  And that, I think, a great first step forward to continue your journey, whereas an
• 40:18
  individual, whether it's being a leader in the organization.
• 40:23
  And hopefully have a good many more good happy and crisis last days ahead of you.
• 40:32
  Well, thank you again for coming on.
• 40:34
  So one of my work, you know, walking away with, and I think the one thing that I think is that
• 40:41
  sticks out to be is if there's a crisis, you respond within 1 to 3 hours.
• 40:45
  I think that's the one thing that's just jumping out that read.
• 40:49
  Because sometimes like you said, there may be a stumbling blocks, especially with bigger
• 40:54
  companies, but to recognize that you need to do something better done than perfect.
• 40:58
  But at least do something to connect on an empathetic level so people see that face of
• 41:04
  that company.
• 41:05
  So I think that's the one significant thing Not that there wasn't significant things today, but
• 41:09
  the one that really I think is important.
• 41:12
  And for everyone, you know, that I my book ROR, which is available.
• 41:17
  But if you wanted to know just how do you connect in relationship?
• 41:20
  How how do you know?
• 41:21
  Either at home or at work, You can go to roxanderhodge.comforward/quiz.
• 41:25
  Take a quick quiz minute or 2, and we send you a a mini report with, some potential next
• 41:31
  steps.
• 41:32
  Again, Natasha, thanks so much for being with us today.
• 41:36
  And Thank you.
• 41:37
  And if for everyone listening, thanks so much for your support.
• 41:40
  I would love if he would give us feedback and, you know, give us some feedback about what you
• 41:45
  liked about it and so we can also share that with Natasha.
• 41:49
  Take care, everyone, and we will see you next week.
• 41:52
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 41:58
  healthy change.
• 41:59
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 42:05
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 42:09
  We'll see you next time.
• 42:11
  An authentic living with Roxanne.
• 42:16
  Thanks for
• 42:22
  tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive healthy change.
• 42:28
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 42:35
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 42:39
  We'll see you next time.
• 42:40
  On authentic living with Roxanne.