Latest / The Personal Finance Club Show / The 401k Drain Trend, How To Retire in 7 Years, and Timing Your Refi | Ep 35

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The 401k Drain Trend, How To Retire in 7 Years, and Timing Your Refi | Ep 35 · The Personal Finance Club Show

0:14
Welcome back to the Personal Finance Club show.
0:16
Hey, Jen. What's up, Jeremy?
0:19
You are in Kenya. It's an optical illusion, yeah.
0:25
So this time of this episode I will be in Kenya.
0:28
That's crazy. And how long are you going to
0:31
Kenya for? About 2 1/2 weeks.
0:34
That's a cool trip. When you travel, is it like
0:38
luxury? Is it shoestring budget?
0:40
And you know what, what's this trip look like?
0:43
Is this Kenya expensive? Like how do you how do you
0:46
approach that? Kenya is very inexpensive.
0:50
I say this is a vacation. We're my entire family is there
0:53
except for my immediate family. So my, my immediate family is
0:56
going with me and the, the flight is expensive.
1:00
Like especially around this time my flight was $1500.
1:04
But once I get to Kenya, I basically spend like in that 2
1:08
1/2 weeks, I'll probably spend like $200. 200 in 2 1/2 weeks.
1:15
Like where are you staying? Do you stay with family or are
1:17
you like get out? Yeah, my family makes all the
1:20
food. I don't have to pay for like,
1:24
transportation while I'm there 'cause we like, usually rent a
1:26
car that we drive around 'cause we land in Nairobi.
1:29
My grandmother lives six hours W you could take like a $30 flight
1:33
back to the Nairobi airport if you don't want to drive.
1:38
And then like, what else is there to buy?
1:41
Like we're not really. We don't really spend money on
1:43
anything. The most I'll spend is like,
1:44
maybe I'll do a safari, maybe 50 bucks.
1:47
I don't even know if it's that much.
1:49
That's crazy. It's awesome.
1:51
So I have really expensive flight basically no cost.
1:55
I'll throw my like aunts, cousins, uncles money for like
1:59
something but my my mom actually built a house in Kenya across
2:03
the street from my grandmother in 2022 so we have our own place
2:06
to stay now. Oh, really?
2:07
Oh, I don't know that. That's wild.
2:09
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah.
2:11
We usually stay with my grandmother.
2:12
Now. That's what my, that's what my
2:15
mom says. But I'm like, somebody's in that
2:16
house. I just know it.
2:18
We have so many relatives. I'm like, somebody's in that I
2:21
they should use it. But yeah, right now it's
2:23
supposedly empty. Cool.
2:25
Yeah, how about like, what about your other?
2:28
Vacations. Is it?
2:29
Is it like, because this is kind of a special family thing, Like
2:32
are you you pinching every penny?
2:34
Do you budget or do you go nuts? No, I think when I like.
2:38
So when am I like Nashville's not really wasn't like a
2:41
vacation, but like, for instance, I went to see Beyoncé
2:44
in New Orleans and that was like, let's just.
2:46
Go How many times have you seen Beyoncé?
2:49
Can't even tell you I saw. It's the last two tours twice.
2:52
I saw Cowboy Carter and Renaissance in LA, and I saw
2:57
Cowboy Carter in New York and Renaissance in New Orleans.
3:01
That's crazy. So the last two tours I saw four
3:04
times. That's amazing.
3:06
I think I've been to that many concerts of any of any artist
3:09
total in my life that many times.
3:11
Oh my gosh, no. I'm obsessed.
3:13
I'm obsessed. I'm in the, I'm in the hive.
3:15
And when, when it's a Beyoncé trip, you're just like this.
3:17
We're going for it. The Airbnb, we're taking Ubers,
3:21
we're going out to eat. I'm all like.
3:23
More than $200. Oh, way more than that's on the
3:26
ticket alone on the plane ticket and the concert ticket.
3:30
So I'm when I'm, I feel like when I go all out, I go all out.
3:33
But then generally I'm not like I don't, I'm not the kind of
3:36
person who like necessarily even feels the need to take a big
3:38
vacation every year. I think that's just happened in
3:41
like my later adult life. Whereas like before, I'd be
3:44
like, well, if there's there's no like, oh, it's summer, we
3:46
should do X. It's like it'll just happen upon
3:49
me. Like, OK, Beyoncé decides she's
3:50
having a concert. We're going, you know.
3:53
That's the way to do it, though. We all, I mean, we talk so much
3:55
about building wealth, but at the end of the day, you know,
3:58
there's no benefit to being like the richest guy in the cemetery,
4:01
right? It's about, you know, using
4:04
money to live your best life. And that doesn't mean wasting it
4:07
and being broke your whole life because that's not your best
4:10
life. But you know, the the things we
4:11
can build memories, I think for sure, like going to Kenya or
4:14
Beyoncé. It's like, you know, those are
4:16
that is that's what life is. That's like, that's like the
4:18
memories that make up the fabric of your life.
4:21
So way to. Go Yeah.
4:23
So you're explored on vacation or do you have people on the?
4:25
Swim, like when I was broke, I remember I went to this trip
4:28
from, I drove from Los Angeles to Belize, which is a long drive
4:35
through Mexico and Central America and we were staying in
4:38
like $12.00 a night hotels. It was like really, really
4:41
sketchy. And now I just went back to
4:44
Mexico a few months ago and stayed enough like $1000 a
4:46
night, like 5 star resort in Puerto Vallarta.
4:49
And so I've seen both sides of it and you know, like The thing
4:53
is like that. Those two numbers, $12.00 and
4:56
$1000 are just mind boggling. You know, they're like 100 X
4:59
different, but did I have 100 X better time?
5:01
You know, it's like very different, like when I was
5:04
married with the baby, when I was like with three friends in
5:07
my 20s or whatever, you know, it doesn't really matter.
5:11
I think just, you know, going, taking, jumping on those
5:13
opportunities when you have them is great, but, you know, just do
5:16
it within your budget. Liberal.
5:18
Absolutely. Someone should make a rule about
5:20
that. Somebody should if you are, it's
5:23
summer, so if you're vacationing, tell us where
5:25
you're going. Are you, are you pinching
5:27
pennies? Are you splurging?
5:29
Let us know. We want to know.
5:30
We want to get in there, said I look at the.
5:32
Spotify comments everyday and I was like no one's comments on
5:34
Spotify. I get all the I get all the hate
5:37
mail on TikTok. I get notifications and those
5:41
notifications are dry so guys comment please.
5:44
I think I'm like mad about Spotify comments but I'm like
5:47
does anyone comment on Spotify? I didn't even know they had
5:49
comments until like a week ago. Now I'm mad we're getting more
5:51
comments and I go. Guys, we need to start doing
5:53
polls so we can do polls on Spotify.
5:55
On Spotify, OK, Watch out Spotify listeners.
5:58
And we will say like, do you spend crazy on vacation or do
6:01
you are you frugal? Maybe that can be our question,
6:03
Speaking of. Spotify we should like do the
6:06
podcast. OK, let's do the podcast.
6:09
Let's get into hot topics. What is our hot topic today?
6:18
Hot. Pockets.
6:20
We just adopt the Hot Pockets. Yeah, we might get sued, OK.
6:25
This this whole episode's flag. Now it's.
6:28
Absolutely. OK, Hot Topic today are four O 1
6:31
KS. OK, this is an Instagram post
6:34
from the Money Guys show. It talks about an increased
6:37
number of participants withdrawing from their four O 1
6:40
KS due to financial hardship. What do you know about this?
6:44
So do you know a money guy show? I don't, I just.
6:47
Want a money guy show? Yeah, I know.
6:49
Honestly, I just scroll on our, our, our Instagram and I'm like,
6:52
what is what is on this algorithm?
6:54
Because if I go on my personal algorithm, it's just going to be
6:56
like memes. Well, probably because, because
6:59
we follow them. But yeah, they're, they're
7:01
friends of the show. But yeah, they, they have this
7:04
kind of dramatic looking chart that says back in 2020, only
7:07
1.7% of four O 1 KS had someone take a hardship withdrawal
7:14
against it. And so basically, if you, you
7:17
can't just withdraw money from your 4-O1K like it's a checking
7:21
account, but if you have a hardship, you can take money out
7:26
and, and you have to pay tax and penalty on it.
7:29
And so this chart showing back in 2020, there's only 1.7%.
7:33
And then every single year it looks like this like really
7:35
terrifying compounding chart all the up to 2025 last year, which
7:39
is 6%. So it's not like, you know,
7:41
still 94% of four O 1 KS aren't seeing these withdrawals, but
7:46
it's definitely looks like a scary increase.
7:48
And so what's going on? 1st, I'm a simple guy, so I
7:54
start the basics. 41K is just, it's like a bank account you put
7:58
money in, but it's got some special rules.
8:00
Specifically it has to come from payroll, like contributions have
8:04
to come from payroll deductions. Meaning 41 KS are basically only
8:07
accessible through your employer.
8:10
And so a lot of times we work for a big company, they'll say,
8:13
hey, you have a new job here, set up your 4-O1K and you can,
8:16
you can transfer some of your money or you can direct some of
8:19
your paycheck to go into your 4-O1K account and have it grow
8:23
with the stock market over time rather than come, you know, to
8:26
homeland your paycheck. The point of them is to not
8:30
touch until you're 59 1/2. It's meant to be a retirement
8:33
account so that when you're old and you stop working, then you
8:35
can start pulling money from your 4-O1K and live off of that.
8:39
That's the theory. But these days, a lot of times
8:43
people are experiencing a lot of hardship.
8:45
And so they see higher gas prices, higher grocery prices,
8:49
inflation, loss of job, yadda, yadda, yadda.
8:52
And they're like, I can't make it this month.
8:54
I'm going to go take out a few 1000 bucks for my 4 O 1K,
8:57
whatever it is just to make bills.
9:00
And, you know, I don't, we talked a lot about growing
9:03
wealth on this show. And I don't mean to mitigate,
9:05
you know, financial hardship that people are always going
9:07
through. It's, it's, it's rough.
9:10
I had been broke for a lot of my life.
9:12
I've never been in poverty. I've never been worried about my
9:15
next meal. And so I haven't been living an
9:17
extremely privileged life, but definitely used to have a whole
9:20
lot less money than I did now. And, you know, worried about
9:23
every single penny, right? And so I, I, you know, I, I feel
9:27
for people in that situation. And so, so why are these going
9:32
up? Why are these four O 1K hardship
9:34
withdrawals going up? And there's basically 2 main
9:37
reasons. 1 is that time they're tough inflation, gas prices, you
9:41
know, stagnant jobs, job loss. And so you you might look at
9:45
this and be like, whoa, this is a really terrifying indictment
9:49
of the current economic situation.
9:52
And, you know, I think post pandemic, I've heard economists
9:57
kind of describe it as it's like the split economy where the rich
10:02
are getting much richer, the stock market at all time high.
10:05
You know, NVIDIA and, you know, Microsoft and Facebook are all
10:10
getting worth more and more and more.
10:12
But people on like the bottom half of the economy don't own
10:15
many stocks and, and things are getting more expensive in their
10:18
job. You know, their job wages aren't
10:21
going up as much as things are getting more expensive.
10:23
And so all the rich are getting a lot richer.
10:24
And it's kind of like a tales all the time, like the poor are
10:27
not doing as well. And is this a sign of that?
10:31
You know, people who have a job have a four O 1K, but now they
10:34
need to dip into the four O 1K early.
10:36
That's part of it, I think. But I think a bigger part of it
10:39
is probably it's, it's suddenly as of post 2018 a lot easier to
10:45
make these withdrawals from your 4-O1K before 2018.
10:49
There's a law passed in 2018, I think it's the secure act 2
10:52
point O. And it before that you, if you
10:58
took a withdrawal from your 400K, you couldn't unless you
11:02
did a loan first. So you did, you had to actually
11:03
take a loan 1st and then not pay it back for six months or
11:07
something to basically prove that you were actually in a
11:09
hardship. And then if you actually do the
11:11
withdrawal, you can't make contributions back to your 41K
11:14
for another six months. And so I had like all these
11:17
roadblocks to make it really, really hard to even do a
11:22
withdrawal. Now you can just do it if you
11:26
whatever you want essentially. And you can even like self
11:29
certify, which basically says, yes, I promise, I am in hardship
11:34
and I don't need to do a loan 1st and I'm not barred from
11:37
contributing back for six months, which was deterring some
11:41
people because you would lose that match.
11:43
You know, if you take a, a hardship withdrawal, then that
11:47
means you're going to lose your match for six months.
11:48
And it's, you know, the old law kind of did feel like it was
11:51
kicking people and they're down like, oh, you need money to pay
11:54
your bills. Well, now you don't even get the
11:56
company match anymore. And so I think the new law is
11:59
meant to make that easier. But the flip side of that is,
12:01
OK, now more people are doing it.
12:04
And maybe they're not exhausting every option they have.
12:08
Like, maybe they're not picking up extra shifts or not, you
12:12
know, saving money or selling stuff on Craigslist or, you
12:15
know, decreasing their expenses or whatever it is and thus
12:18
setting themselves up for more pain down the road Because now
12:22
the 6% of people who are pulling money from their 400K are going
12:25
to have less in retirement. And so, you know, these are
12:27
tough decisions that are kind of being made both by the
12:32
government in terms of what's allowed and by individuals in
12:34
terms of what they're doing. So now you can still withdraw
12:38
whenever you want, but you just, you still have to pay the tax
12:41
and penalty on it. So for example, if I have, if I
12:44
take $5000 out of my 41 Ki have to pay income tax on all that
12:48
5000 and another 500 bucks, the penalty on that 10 percent, 10%
12:53
penalty on top of that. And So what happens is some
12:55
people are like, oh, I need 5000 bucks.
12:57
I'm going to take this out of my 41K, put my checking account,
13:00
spend it. But they might be in the, you
13:02
know, 20% tax bracket, which is 1000 bucks plus that $500
13:06
penalty tax time comes around. Maybe they were going to get a
13:10
$500 refund. Now they owe $1000.
13:13
It's now they're kind of have compounded their problem because
13:16
now they owe more money and they've got another bill that
13:18
they can't pay. And so, you know, it's tough
13:21
because generally speaking, I think most people taking these
13:24
hardship withdrawals are going through hardships.
13:29
So it's hard to point fingers and say, you know, don't do this
13:32
dumb thing, but you know, for you, what do you do?
13:35
You know, obviously you want to avoid this as much as possible.
13:39
If you take money out of your 4-O1K early, before you're 59
13:43
1/2, you're paying tax, you're paying penalty.
13:45
And worse than that, you know, penalty sounds bad, but it's
13:48
only 10% worse than that. That $5000 in that example I
13:52
just gave isn't growing for another 20 years.
13:54
If it's growing for another 20 years, it's going to double. 3 *
13:57
5 becomes 102040. That means now you have $5000
14:01
now, but you don't have $40,000 later.
14:04
And that's just for 28 years. If it's twenty, you know, 7 or
14:07
28 years, it's another double. So, you know, you want to avoid
14:12
this. If you do have to do it, you
14:15
want to put it back in, you know, but that's the situation
14:19
which is I think times are tough and it's been made easier
14:22
because of this 2018 law. And so I think we're seeing this
14:25
increase. I guess one other note is that
14:27
your plan still needs to allow it every single four O 1K as
14:31
administered by your company is handled a little bit
14:33
differently. And so some plans allow a loan,
14:36
some plans don't. Some plans allow early
14:37
withdrawal, some don't. And so even though the law
14:40
change in 2018, adoption of that law has, you know, happened at
14:45
the pace of companies make their own changes.
14:47
And so to me, when I look at this chart, I, I suspect there's
14:51
a lot less to do with just hardship as, you know,
14:54
increasing exponentially. I think it has a lot more to do
14:56
with people are becoming aware of this option, companies are
15:00
adopting it and now everyone's kind of reaching into their own
15:03
back pocket and and taking a withdrawal.
15:07
Nice have. You been tempted to go into your
15:09
4-O1K? Why, why?
15:11
Why are you always going to go in my pockets, Jeremy?
15:14
This is this is the show. I want to hear what you're doing
15:16
with your money over in Nigeria, burning $200 in two weeks in
15:20
Nigeria, that's over $100. A week, Kenya.
15:23
Oh my, Kenya. Oh, that's we're going east
15:26
side, not West side. My bad.
15:28
Yeah, East side I have taken for my 401K but I will not
15:34
elaborate. Oh, OK.
15:36
Well, you have some personal experience then.
15:38
I have some personal experience but I honestly didn't know until
15:42
I saw this post that it was something that was more
15:45
widespread like as of late so haven't touched in a little
15:49
while now. So it's it's growing back up
15:51
again now here at personal Finance Club with my match.
15:54
Yeah, you get a match here at Personal Finance Club.
15:56
We're trying to trying to get you rich over here as quickly as
15:59
possible, although it is get rich slow.
16:03
I love it. Shall we go on to our next
16:06
segment? Yeah.
16:07
What do we got? Do you want to have your
16:08
question answered on the show? Go to
16:10
personalfinanceclub.com/ask. Can I ask a dumb one?
16:15
You're asking smart questions to dumb people.
16:17
What do we got? Hey, hey, we're asking you
16:21
technically. So you're the dumb one.
16:23
OK. This is from Haley in
16:24
Providence, RI Once again, I we haven't gotten a message from
16:28
Rhode Island yet, as far as I know.
16:29
That's pretty awesome. Hey, Haley.
16:32
Rhode Island's amazing. It's Rhode Island.
16:33
I, I feel like Rhode Island's funny because it's a whole
16:35
state, but it's like smaller than what LA County, you know,
16:39
certainly in population and probably in size too.
16:42
And so just those East Coast states back when they were
16:45
splitting up land, they're cutting things so small.
16:47
And now when they got to the West, like whatever the rest of
16:50
everything is California. Yeah, no, I've never been to
16:54
Rhode Island, so I can't speak on it, but I I trust you for
16:56
some reason. I've never been to Rhode Island
16:58
either. Wait, so how do you know that
17:00
it's amazing? I just, I know of it.
17:04
It's very small small state. Wow.
17:07
OK, Haley, we're not doing. This and it's not an island.
17:10
I don't know. Why do they call it that?
17:11
I don't know. I didn't prepare.
17:13
For that question, yeah, good point.
17:16
And is it a Rd. I doubt it.
17:20
It's not a road nor an island. To help discuss.
17:23
I know it's a rohode, but still. Rohode Island, OK?
17:28
Haley asks. Is trying to time the market
17:31
with refinancing a home just as futile as it is with investing?
17:35
And how do you know when it's a good time to refinance?
17:37
A bit of background, I bought my home, a three unit multifamily
17:42
in August of 2024. My rate is 6.875% on a 30 year
17:47
fixed. I was recently quoted 6.125% for
17:51
a refi rate. I'm in a good position with the
17:54
rental income from the 2 units I rent out, so I would plan to
17:56
continue paying my current mortgage payment and put the
17:59
savings towards the principal. And then Haley goes on to say,
18:03
and because I know you like numbers, here are the details on
18:05
my recent refi quote. I'd be looking at option two if
18:08
I were to refinance today, so maybe we can include that chart
18:10
as well. Cool.
18:12
I mean, first of all, Haley, I love it.
18:14
You're crushing it. It's just crazy how little
18:17
decisions people make have this massive effect.
18:20
And Haley, I don't know if she's, I don't know if you're a
18:22
millionaire yet, but you're going to be a millionaire.
18:24
I could, I would bet everything I had because you bought a three
18:28
unit multifamily home, you're renting 2 units.
18:30
You're trying to aggressively pay down the debt.
18:32
You're paying attention to the attention to the rates.
18:35
You know, this is these are the types of decisions that make
18:37
people very, very wealthy. It takes time.
18:40
It's going to feel slow for years, but then you can make OK,
18:43
five years in, you know, we bought that place five years
18:45
ago. Now it's 2029.
18:46
Maybe we can buy another property.
18:47
Maybe we can put some, you know, pay off the mortgage and put
18:50
that put that rental income into the market.
18:52
You know, these are the types of compounding effects that happen
18:56
not quickly, but once they start happening, it's really big.
18:58
So you're absolutely crushing it.
19:00
And it's, it's a great question. And so basically what Haley's
19:03
asking is saying, hey, when I bought this house, it was a
19:07
6.875% rate on the mortgage. It's not a house, it's a
19:10
multifamily. But when I bought this property
19:13
and mortgage rates change. And recently her mortgage broker
19:18
sounds like contacted and said, hey, rates are a little cheaper
19:21
than when you bought. You can do a refinance.
19:24
What that means is currently, and I assume it's OK saying
19:27
these numbers because she sent this to a podcast, but you know,
19:30
Haley owns about $709,000 on her mortgage and it's, and she's
19:36
paying 6.875% interest on that every single month when she, you
19:40
know, makes her payment. And so the refi is saying, hey,
19:45
go borrow $709,000 from another bank, pay off the old one
19:50
instantly and now make new payments to the new, you know,
19:54
to the new loan to the new bank. And it could actually be the
19:56
same, the same bank even. And that's called a refinance,
19:59
basically paying off the old loan in one big payment.
20:03
With the proceeds of this new loan and the benefit is you have
20:09
a lower rate. And so if you were paying, and
20:12
you know, in Haley's example, the quote she got was for
20:15
6.125%, this is like a lot of decimals, but it's 3/4 of a
20:19
percent, .75% of a lower rate. And because it's a lower rate,
20:23
your, your payment goes down. And so you might be thinking,
20:28
yeah, that sounds incredible. If I can just get rid of my old
20:30
loan, get a new loan, why don't I just do that every single
20:33
time? Rates are .1% lower and I'm
20:35
paying a little bit. There's 2 main reasons you don't
20:38
do it every single time. 1 is paperwork.
20:40
It's just, you know, anytime in, in Haley's case, anytime you're
20:44
borrowing $700,000, the people writing that check want to be
20:48
pretty darn sure that you plan to pay it back.
20:50
And you know, the old one is kind of already, is already set
20:53
in stone. You're already paying it.
20:54
But the new people who, you know, loan you the $700,000 want
20:59
to see all sorts of documentation, and it takes, you
21:01
know, weeks at the minimum kind of pain.
21:05
And two is the big catch, which is the mortgage broker who
21:09
reached out to Haley and said, hey, I can get you a lower rate.
21:11
Isn't a volunteer just doing God's work trying?
21:13
To you. Know make people pay lower
21:16
rates, they, they make money from writing new loans, they
21:20
make money from like putting in a new loan.
21:22
So once the old loan is done, you know, it's in the system, it
21:26
might get traded or whatever, but you know, the payment is
21:29
what the payment is and you know, mortgage companies aren't
21:31
really making new money from it. The mortgage companies make
21:35
money by originating these loans, basically starting them.
21:39
And the fees are pretty expensive, you know, typically
21:42
from 2 to 6% of the loan amount. So if you're borrowing $100,000,
21:46
it'd be $2000 to $6000 in in Haley's case, she's borrowing
21:51
$700,000. And so she actually has the
21:53
numbers right here. The, the cost of the loan is
21:56
$10,358. That's a lot of money $10,000 is
22:01
a ton of money. You know, that's a big purchase
22:04
you're essentially making Haley. But to be fair, relative to the
22:08
size of loan, $700,000, it's only about 1.4% of the cost.
22:12
And so it's actually, you know, pretty good rate, probably
22:15
because it's such a big loan, because it's a multi family
22:18
property, I assume somewhere, you know, in a city or something
22:21
because this is a pretty expensive property.
22:23
So when you do this refi, you often get a choice as Haley has
22:28
in this in this option she has, you can just pay the brokers
22:34
directly the $10,300. Here's the money for all the
22:37
work you do. Now my loan amount was 700 and
22:42
709,000. It remains 709,000.
22:45
But now my payment in Haley's case drops from 5600 a month to
22:49
5200 a month. So she saves 420 two $100 a
22:53
month. And so that's that's the trade
22:56
off right there. You pay $10,000 upfront and you
22:59
save $400.00 a month. If you divide that out,
23:02
basically Haley's break even period of time is 24 months.
23:07
Two years later, that 422 months, $422 a month she's
23:12
saving is going to add up to how much she had to pay for the
23:16
loan. That's the entire trade off
23:18
right there. That's why you don't do it every
23:20
single time rates drop by .1% because you'd keep having to pay
23:25
this 10,000 over and over and you'd be like racking up all
23:27
these expenses while not breaking even.
23:30
Yet these other two options that she's showing here are mortgage
23:36
brokers aren't dummies. They know people aren't going to
23:38
want to pay $10,000 cash upfront.
23:40
So they said, hey, you can pay nothing upfront.
23:43
You can instantly lower your payment, your mortgage payment,
23:46
and all we'll do is we'll add that to the loan.
23:48
And so Haley's refinance option #3 says my loan was 709,000.
23:54
My loan becomes 719. So I owe more to the bank now,
23:58
but my, my payment instantly drops from 5651 to about about
24:04
5300. So she, so the payment drops
24:07
$357 a month. And so, you know, both those are
24:12
fine. You know, there's not, it's not,
24:13
you're not like a bad person or something if you add to your
24:16
mortgage amount. But keep in mind you are, you
24:19
know, resetting the clock you're pushing, you know, you're
24:22
putting more money in a total loan and you're going to be
24:24
owing money for longer and you're going to be paying more
24:26
total interest even though your payment is lower because the
24:31
amount goes up, you're actually paying more interest over the
24:33
term of the loan. And so Haley's question is
24:36
basically saying, hey, rates are .75% less.
24:40
But because of this trade off between how much I have to pay
24:43
upfront for the cost of the loan and my lower monthly payment,
24:48
should I wait for it to drop 1%? Should I wait for drop 1.25%?
24:53
And am I just timing the market there?
24:56
You know, we don't know what rates are going to do it if I
24:58
don't do this today and don't lock in this .75% reduction in
25:03
my rate. But if rates go back up and I've
25:05
like missed the opportunity forever, or on the flip side,
25:08
what if they drop dramatically 2% the next day and I just incur
25:14
this $10,000 expense? I should have waited a day and
25:19
gotten an even lower rate. And you know, the answer is
25:23
you're thinking about it correctly.
25:24
But generally, if you can get a payback period in about two
25:30
years, I'd say it's worth it because even though the rates
25:35
might drop more, you can always refinance again.
25:38
And the number of months that go, you know, you, you start
25:42
saving kind of immediately. And so even if you like, even if
25:46
you save 18 of the 24 months and you haven't quite paid it back,
25:50
if you can do another big refinance, it's still worth it
25:52
to do the second time. And you might have even been
25:54
better off because you're, you would have been paying the
25:56
higher amount along the way. And so, you know, there is a
25:59
little bit of market timing that goes in there, but these things
26:01
are generally slow moving. And so, you know, Haley, you're
26:04
thinking about correctly, this isn't going to really change
26:06
your life. I like your strategy.
26:07
The things that are changing your life are your strategy,
26:09
which is, you know, get a lower rate.
26:12
She even said I'm going to take all the excess that I was that
26:17
I'm saving now in interest and just throw it towards the
26:20
principal every month. I love that strategy.
26:21
Amazing. That's going to dramatically
26:23
reduce the term. Instead of paying off in 30
26:25
years, it might mean 25 years, even 20 years.
26:27
It's crazy how much quicker you can pay off the loan if you're
26:30
putting a little bit extra every month and then you're going to
26:33
have 3 units with positive cash flow.
26:35
No loan. That's how you get rich.
26:37
Exactly. When you do the refi doesn't
26:39
really matter. But based on these numbers I
26:41
don't think it's crazy to do it now.
26:42
Even though it's only .75, it's a little bit lower than that,
26:44
like 1%. Rule of thumb.
26:46
A lot of people talk about the fact that it's a two year
26:49
repayment. For you, I'd say it's worth it.
26:51
Two year break even. Nice.
26:55
Yeah. OK, Haley, I'm going.
26:57
To refine myself though, have you ever?
26:59
You haven't. No.
27:01
Have you ever even owned a property?
27:03
No, I would have to say, how do I do a refund?
27:06
I think my parents may have done one.
27:08
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, but I'm not in their pockets like
27:11
that. Word.
27:14
OK, Haley, thank you for the question.
27:16
No, go ahead. My mortgage experience is
27:19
relatively limited personally because my first time I bought,
27:23
I paid cash for it or $712,000 or something and I just wrote a
27:28
check. And then this most recent one we
27:30
bought, we did do a $500,000 mortgage, but we've never
27:36
refinanced it. But I think ironically or not
27:39
ironically, but coincidentally, my rate is identical to at least
27:42
6.875 and we bought around the same time of fall of 2024.
27:46
And so I might be doing this exact same math soon.
27:49
Although I think I don't know when she wrote this in, but
27:51
rates I think maybe part of partially due to this Iran
27:54
conflict, rates have like gone back up recently.
27:58
But if? I don't know if I if I sniff
28:00
something in the fives, I think it might be worth it.
28:01
We might jump on that. OK, all right, you heard it here
28:05
first. That's breaking news once again.
28:08
Could there be anything more boring than it was some dude
28:10
that you don't know doing a refinance on his mortgage that
28:12
you don't care about? I think that if you're listening
28:15
to this podcast, you probably own property and you might be in
28:18
this predicament. So I don't think that it's that
28:21
as uninteresting as you think. That's a fairpoint.
28:23
That's a fairpoint. People are not average people.
28:27
You're you're superstars. People, if you got 28 minutes
28:30
in, then you probably are somebody who might be thinking
28:33
about refi. Okay, let's get into scroll
28:40
patrol. Scroll Patrol.
28:43
Skrezel Petrezel. OK, you guys know what it is.
28:47
We are on the Internet looking for videos.
28:49
Jeremy has not seen this video. The exciting part is it's going
28:52
to get a score. So buckle up for that.
28:55
Jeremy. Go ahead and click on that and
28:57
let's watch it together. Let's see if you want to retire
29:02
in seven years starting with $0.00, do these five things.
29:05
First, work a nine to five job to get some cash in your pocket.
29:08
Second, invest that cash into equipment and learning new
29:11
skills. Third, use your new equipment
29:13
and skills to start a side hustle to grow your income. 4th,
29:17
invest for the long term in assets like real estate and the
29:20
stock market. 5th, Swap the word retirement with freedom and
29:23
continue doing what you love. That's, that's OK.
29:26
That was a shore in 24 seconds. And I, I know him.
29:31
I think his name is Tilbury or something.
29:33
He's all over YouTube. He's got shorts on shorts on
29:36
shorts. Yeah, I know.
29:38
He's actually, yeah. Mark Tilbury, I guess.
29:40
I guess, right. Yeah, I know.
29:41
I've seen him. I don't, I don't personally know
29:43
him, but I've definitely seen him around.
29:45
He gives me. I actually think about this guy
29:46
because he's an older gentleman. Just ballparking based on his
29:50
looks, I'd say got to be past 60, right?
29:53
Jen, what do you say? I'd say yeah, 6570 even.
29:57
I'm Googling now, let's see if the Internet knows.
29:59
Oh my gosh, it says he's 58. Is that true?
30:03
Dude, we just insulted him. We're going to 10.
30:07
I said I guess 60. I was pretty close, yeah, Said
30:14
he was born 68. OK, sorry Mark, you do.
30:18
But to to your credit Mark, you do have very white hair, so.
30:22
He's, yeah, he's pretty much all Gray.
30:25
But yeah, almost 60, pushing 60, I guess that was right.
30:29
And you know, I like, I think it's cool.
30:32
He's just like he's like a content creator influencer guy.
30:36
I think he generally just has pretty common sense, matter of
30:40
fact stuff. I think like all influencers,
30:42
myself included, where fighting for eyeballs.
30:46
And so you have to say kind of, you know, interesting enough
30:50
things for people to stick around for the rest of your
30:53
video. And he starts with if you want
30:55
to retire in seven years and then kind of doesn't back that
30:58
up, you know, like nothing magic was.
31:01
There's a random number that seems like a small enough number
31:03
that you want to stick around. But then he doesn't really say
31:05
anything. And then everything he says is
31:07
basically boils down to the 2 rules, which is he says make
31:11
some money. He does kind of really talk
31:13
about side hustles and self-employment and I like that
31:18
too. You know, 1 critique people make
31:21
of our mantra or our, our topics here is we talk a lot about
31:26
index fund investing and everyone's, or sometimes people
31:29
say, but Jeremy, you didn't make money from investing in index
31:32
funds, you made money from your business.
31:34
And I always want to say, how did you know?
31:36
How did you figure that out? Because the reason they know
31:39
that is because I talk about all the time.
31:40
So obviously it's not a secret. Yes, I made money for my
31:43
business. I'm a huge fan of
31:44
entrepreneurship. And, you know, usually when you
31:46
talk to really wealthy people, they started businesses.
31:49
And that said, at this point, I think more of my wealth has been
31:53
created from index funds. And so I definitely do both.
31:56
And that's exactly what he said. He's like, you know, go start a
32:00
business, grow your income, invest the extra proceeds into
32:03
real estate in the stock market. That's exactly what we say here.
32:05
We don't talk about crypto or day trading or or you know, any
32:10
sort of the you know, random other investments you can make.
32:12
It's like real estate stock market buy and hold.
32:15
Everything he's saying is spot on and you know it's not easy.
32:20
You know it's a 24 second video and he just had some like B roll
32:23
of some Ryobi like leaf blowers and stuff like that.
32:27
It's. Like power washing a sidewalk.
32:29
Yeah, yeah, I guess it's not even B roll, it's him doing it
32:31
himself. But yeah, he's power washing.
32:34
So but like, you know, like legit if you go buy a power
32:37
washer and go start, you know, spend 6 bucks at Kinko's and
32:42
print little Flyers and stick them in 1000 mailboxes and say
32:44
I'll power washer driveway for 50 bucks.
32:46
You're probably going to make some sales.
32:48
And then you're probably going to get a Yelp page going.
32:50
You're probably going to get a website going.
32:52
And all of a sudden you might be bringing in 2000 bucks a month
32:55
from power washing driveways on the weekend.
32:57
And that could change your entire life. 2000 bucks a month
33:00
if you're investigate easily makes you a multi millionaire
33:03
over your career. And so you know, while it's not
33:06
easy, it's going to be a struggle to get your first few
33:10
clients and it's going to be a struggle to learn to power wash
33:13
and you're going to have some expenses and yadda yadda yadda.
33:15
Like I think a lot of people who get very wealthy start
33:19
businesses and. Some of them.
33:21
Are power washing businesses too?
33:22
It's not all it's not all Harvard dropouts starting
33:26
Facebook. That's like the exception that
33:28
most businesses are people started doing normal stuff,
33:31
selling normal services to normal other people.
33:34
Yeah, I agree. I think it's interesting.
33:38
It's I've had, I've had jobs and side hustles at the same time
33:41
where I've been like paid hourly.
33:43
And that's that can be tough just cause like you're kind of
33:46
feeling the like hour of like, oh buddy, I'm at this yoga
33:49
studio or whatever. And if the music thing is fine
33:53
to me, 'cause sometimes I'm like, man, I'm so glad this like
33:56
this side hustle like works out in this way.
33:58
Because like if I look at this, how much this would take to make
34:02
hourly at like McDonald's, it would take so long, you know
34:05
what I mean? And then like it's similarly to
34:08
you. I know you have like a lot of
34:09
passive income from businesses. It's like, that is like that's
34:12
really like the sweet spot right there where you're like set it
34:14
and forget it almost for a lot of these things or like what's a
34:18
lot of people do with real estate and things like that,
34:19
which can be a little bit more of a grind.
34:21
But yeah, I think that like side hustle.
34:23
But I think people tend to go to the like, oh, I'm going to be at
34:27
Arby's, you know, from like after my 9:00 to 5:00, I'm going
34:29
to be doing 6 to 10 or whatever. And that could be, I think that
34:33
could be more daunting. But I think if people can step
34:34
outside the box and what they think a side hustle is, it can
34:37
be really lucrative and help like pay things down.
34:40
And hopefully something you enjoy too.
34:42
He kind of even at the end there, he said, you know, if you
34:45
think you're going to power wash driveways for seven years and
34:48
then, you know, just watch Netflix the rest of your life,
34:52
you know, does not life. That's not what it's about.
34:54
You know, do something you love and you know, so you're doing,
34:56
you know, music as it's probably more than a side also, but like
34:59
hopefully like a career and like, you know, I do computer
35:02
programming as as as my side also.
35:04
It's like what I enjoy. And so you want to, you want to
35:07
focus on the things that you like and the things that you can
35:09
make money. Have you heard of Ikigai?
35:12
There's like this like 4 intersecting circles.
35:14
Do you know ikigai? Ikigai.
35:18
And now I'm like making stuff up.
35:19
On the planet? Sounds like you.
35:20
You're talking about like a Pokémon or something?
35:22
Well, it is Japanese. I think it's it, it, it's
35:26
probably is Pokémon. But yeah, it's like there's
35:29
these 4 interopping circles, what you love, what you're good
35:32
at, what you can be paid for and what the world needs.
35:36
And the intersection of those is your Iki guy.
35:41
And you know, that's what we're all you know.
35:43
And frankly, I think personal finance club is my Iki guy.
35:47
I love talking on the stuff. I'm good at it.
35:50
You know, sometimes we get paid for it and that's a little bit
35:53
of fun, tentative territory. And then I think the world needs
35:57
it, in my opinion for sure. And so I, you know, that's why I
36:00
chose to do this kind of like in my early retirement side hustle.
36:04
And it's like really cool to be able to do something and, and
36:06
make money doing it. Yeah, I, I remember when we were
36:09
doing the fire course, people like, it's funny, we we lost
36:12
really big questions, but some people were literally just like,
36:14
what do I do for a side hustle? And we, we've actually gotten
36:16
that question in our inbox for the podcast too a few times.
36:19
So maybe we can like by proxy answer that a little bit.
36:21
But like, yeah, I think it's interesting because to me, I'm
36:25
like, you kind of like, I don't know, you have to it.
36:28
So it feels like it's something that's so specific to you, it
36:30
needs to be specific to you for it to work right.
36:32
Because if you do something you hate, unless you have the insane
36:35
willpower, you're probably going to leave it shortly, you know?
36:37
But if you kind of find your Iki guy a new word that I learned
36:41
today, then you might be able to make it last.
36:44
Yeah, my general advice on that is avoid, avoid just being a cog
36:49
in someone else's machine. I would much, you know, I'd much
36:52
rather you be stuffing, stuffing mailboxes with power washing
36:57
Flyers than driving for Uber, for example, or for a DoorDash
37:02
just because like Uber and DoorDash, they're you're just
37:05
going to have a corporate overlord who's grinding you into
37:09
the dirt and you know, the card payments and the gas and the
37:14
fees and this everything just eats away at you.
37:16
And for sure, like, you know, those gig economy things aren't
37:19
bad for a little while, But you know, I'd much rather you, if
37:22
you're going to walk dogs, go start your own dog walking
37:26
website and, you know, start a list of referrals and, and post
37:30
to Facebook. And you know, you know, figure
37:33
out how to market it 'cause the, you know, the wag path is is
37:39
gonna just squeeze I'm. Sorry, wag path.
37:43
Like going isn't wag what a like the Uber of dog walking?
37:47
Oh, I don't know. I don't have pets.
37:51
You're stomping my wag path. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
37:54
And it's, I think it's true. I think Wag is like the Uber of
37:56
dog walking. So if you're gonna be a dog and
37:59
like Wag for sure will get you start started faster.
38:02
Like, you know, probably the next day you can start walking
38:04
dogs. But like the ceiling is so much
38:06
lower is if you start your own business, you could potentially
38:08
hire dog walkers and you know, pay them 15 bucks an hour and
38:13
charge your clients 25 bucks an hour.
38:15
And now you're making 10 bucks an hour and you're not even
38:16
walking dogs anymore. You're making the difference.
38:20
So I think go starting like an actual real business yourself is
38:24
better than the gig economy thing.
38:27
I agree. Yeah, we haven't even given Mark
38:29
Tilbury. Oh, my bad, yes. 50 something
38:32
Mark Tilbury Mark Tilbury is only about 10 years old from me.
38:37
I'm so sorry, Mark. I can't.
38:40
I'm bad at that age. Thing I know I'm 45, he's 58 or
38:44
59, I don't know. So but yeah, I give him an AI
38:49
think. I think that's I think that's
38:51
like, you know, it's kind of like the the two rules plus
38:54
entrepreneurship all wrapped into a 24 second video as well
38:58
as you can. I think that's a really good
39:00
video. Yes, OK, I like all his videos,
39:03
so I'm glad that you enjoyed it. OK, let's move on.
39:10
Jeremy had time today. I had the time today.
39:13
You guys are commenting on our social media posts and I can't
39:17
effectively defend myself in just a short comment.
39:21
And so I get to yell at you on the microphone.
39:23
Now what do we got today? Once again, you do be in them
39:26
comments. OK, so you made an Instagram
39:28
post. It's actually really cool.
39:30
You need to tell me how you made it.
39:31
It's probably super simple and you're going to make fun of me,
39:33
but it's a very cool moving graphic.
39:35
It shows the stock market trajectory and how it's
39:37
contradictory to the sentiment of the constant like, oh, the
39:40
crash is coming. So can you elaborate on the post
39:43
and then we'll get into the comments section?
39:45
So yeah, it's a video of like a line chart of the stock market's
39:51
growth, $10,000 invested and watching what's your $10,000 is
39:54
worth in real time. And there's no time access
39:57
labeled until the very end. Because I want to kind of evoke
40:00
this emotion of going along for the ride that we all feel
40:04
everyday because it's so easy to look at the line chart in the
40:07
past and make, oh, I should have sold that and bought that.
40:09
That would have been so smart. But we're all feeling the roller
40:12
coaster going forward because we don't know what the path forward
40:15
is. And to your point, Jen, I spent
40:17
like. Six hours scouring the Internet
40:21
using AI, asking anything and everything I could to figure out
40:24
how to make this stupid because I had this idea of this like
40:26
roller coaster line chart in my head and I couldn't figure out
40:29
how to do it. And I finally did.
40:30
So it was not easy. And there's like, you know,
40:32
because like the vision in my head was kind of what came out
40:34
at the end of the day, But but there's a million like animated
40:38
chart things that don't do that. And so it was.
40:40
It was very hard for me. Oh, I'm glad that it was because
40:44
it looks really cool. So I was like, yeah, no one.
40:47
It got like 3 likes because that's the Internet.
40:50
No, I do think that people are like, oh, like 1. 1000 likes.
40:54
Jerry Okay, that's. That's crazy.
40:56
You need. That's three for me.
40:59
That's well, yeah, actually, honestly, that 1000 likes would
41:02
be like life changing for me. Life changing.
41:05
Jen kicks the door down in the office that we don't have and
41:09
she says I quit. I got 1000 likes.
41:11
I was like I got bad news for you Jen.
41:13
When you convert that to dollars, it's 0.
41:16
I'm not even like eligible to make money on Instagram it's so
41:18
funny. Neither.
41:20
Am I? I don't make money from likes.
41:21
Instagram doesn't pay me. I almost said the S word.
41:24
I was trying to get this not flagged.
41:26
Instagram doesn't pay me anything.
41:28
OK, well, it looks really, it looks like something out of the
41:31
matrix. I don't know why.
41:33
And it's like, is it, it's in our brand colors, right?
41:36
It's close. I think you might have had to
41:38
like upgrade to a certain version of the software to get
41:41
everything perfect. But I think their like default
41:43
was pretty close and I was able to maybe customize a little bit.
41:46
But yeah. I'd say worth it and it got 1000
41:48
lights. Not bad.
41:50
Yeah, 1, 112th and 1% of our followers.
41:53
Said hey my. I like this.
41:56
You know what? Forget it.
41:57
Forget that I even ever complimented.
41:59
You I'm just complaining about reach on social media like the
42:01
rest of us creators, right? But no, it is true that like the
42:06
things that I like, you know, pour myself into for days and
42:09
days to make one little post, get nothing.
42:11
And then like when you're sitting on the toilet and you're
42:13
like, you know what sucks? Taxes.
42:17
A million likes. Your Halloween Costume 2 million
42:20
likes. Halloween costumes.
42:23
I do work hard on Halloween costumes though.
42:25
All right, anyway, so that's the post.
42:26
It's like this, this like kind of like roller coaster of a of a
42:30
line chart video that were going on and then this commenter said.
42:35
What about the lost decade after the financial crisis?
42:39
And so, you know, the lost decade is this period of 2000 to
42:43
2010, where if you look at just those years and nothing before
42:47
and nothing after, the market was pretty flat during those
42:50
years because it encapsulates 2 of the hugest crashes in history
42:54
in the same 10 years. And so in 2000, the market was
42:57
super high after the likethe.com boom of the 90s
43:00
marketcrashedhard.com crash. Then for like, you know, seven
43:04
years or so, I was clawing itself back up.
43:06
Then we hit 2008 crashed hard. And so when you just look at,
43:09
you know, that decade alone, we call the lost decade because
43:12
start to finish, just those 10 years, it was pretty flat.
43:17
That said, I have some thoughts on Lost decade one.
43:20
It's clearly time period picking.
43:23
Like you clearly have picked the worst decade in history and
43:25
said, what about that thing? And it's like, OK, sure.
43:27
Just to prove a point. Cherry picking 2 is that when
43:31
people show that chart, they're showing the share price of the
43:35
S&P 500 or whatever it is, but they're taking their dividends
43:38
they get for being an owner and they're flushing it down the
43:41
toilet. And so when you take your
43:42
dividends over that period, you're not actually down money,
43:45
you're actually up about 7%. And so just for being an owner
43:49
collecting those dividends, that's point #2 point #3 is most
43:53
people didn't put $10,000 in on January 1st, 2000 and sit there
43:57
with their hands in their pocket.
43:58
Most people are periodically investing their four O 1K is
44:03
putting more money in their Roth IRA's and contributions every
44:05
year. They're putting money in their
44:07
brokerage account and clicking buy on VTi or VOO or whatever it
44:10
is. And when you're doing that,
44:12
you're actually getting this huge compounding effect by
44:15
buying more shares when it's low.
44:17
And so if you're a net buyer of stocks, you should really love
44:20
market crashes because you get to get more shares while the
44:23
markets low. And so if you were not investing
44:26
$10,000 at the beginning, if you're investing $500 along the
44:29
way, even though it's a down or even though it's like a lost
44:34
decade, you actually would have made a ton of money during that
44:36
decade because you're buying low.
44:38
And by the time the market got back up to 0 at the end of the
44:41
decade, you would have actually, most of your money would have
44:44
been invested lower and you would have already gotten some
44:46
gains. Not to mention the fact that the
44:50
next decade was incredible. There was like no crashes or
44:52
just skyrocket up. So, so this comment said what
44:56
about the lost decade? The lost decade was in this
44:59
video. In fact, I even paused it like
45:01
right before and right after the lost decade.
45:03
And so if you, and by the way, this the time period is 1976 to
45:08
2026. So it was a 50 year time period
45:10
that this roller coaster was riding over and you put $10,000
45:13
in. By the time you hit like the
45:15
late 90s, your 10,000 has become almost, you know, about 300,000.
45:20
And then after the lost decade, it's still about 300,000 because
45:24
this isn't the periodic investing thing.
45:26
This is an actual $10,000 hypothetical investment.
45:29
So it's it demonstrated that. And so they said what about the
45:33
10 lost decade? Yeah, your 300,000 over the
45:35
course of ten years stayed the same there.
45:38
But if you held it until today, your 300,000 is worth about
45:41
$3,000,000. And so your 10,000 over this
45:47
whole roller coaster became 3 million and they're saying, hey,
45:51
what about this one period we only know about with the benefit
45:54
of hindsight where it's flat. And my answer is, hey, plowing
45:57
through that and ignoring and just slamming, you know,
46:00
holding, holding, holding, holding or buying, buying,
46:02
buying, buying. Turns out to have turned 10,000
46:05
into 3 million even with the lost decade in there.
46:09
Of course, had we known that that was going to happen, you
46:13
could like do some like shorts and really advanced trading
46:16
stuff and guess what's going to happen ahead of time and be
46:18
right. You could have made more of
46:20
course. But since we don't know that
46:22
going forward, as this kind of roller coaster image or video
46:26
shows, just holding is an incredibly powerful and valuable
46:30
and financial option. So my answer is who cares about
46:34
the lost decade? I made $3,000,000 on 10,000 just
46:37
because it was flat for 10 years.
46:39
Who cares? Love it.
46:42
Take that. Yeah, take.
46:45
That Internet commenter who, by the way, like, probably an
46:48
exceptionally nice person, maybe.
46:51
He's 15. He looks like he's.
46:53
In his 60s. I don't know.
46:55
Because because they're like they're they're.
46:57
This is probably one of those thousand likes.
47:00
On our thousandth episode, we'll have insulted every single
47:03
person who likes our posts and will have no likes.
47:05
Thought that's a good point I guess, Like if you're
47:07
commenting, you probably even if you're commenting something like
47:09
that, you're probably still liking it, right?
47:12
I don't know. I mean I.
47:13
Kind of want to go see I. Think it depends on the
47:15
platform. I think TikTok people don't know
47:17
who you are generally and they're just trying to like
47:19
trash you. Instagram people, it's changing
47:22
these days, but Instagram like more likely to know who you are
47:24
and just be a more consistent engager.
47:27
But yeah, we like, we like all the comments.
47:30
I like we like the engagement. OK.
47:32
Yeah, love it. Look at us.
47:34
We made it to the end of another episode.
47:36
What a day, Jennifer. Red letter day.
47:39
How's how's Kenya? Sorry, I called it Nigeria by
47:42
mistake. I've just.
47:43
Spent. That's right, At least you're on
47:45
the same continent. Hey, I'm probably about the same
47:48
latitude, right? They're just kind of like.
47:49
I think so. I think they're like pretty much
47:51
equally across the. Continent straight due West and
47:54
I'm a I'm a track guy too. So you're going to run from
47:57
Nigeria to Kenya? Well, no.
47:59
So I appreciate Kenya for all they're like, there was like a
48:02
time. Because the marathon went
48:04
runners. Right, There's a time where you
48:05
looked at like the 5000 or sorry, sorry, like the 30 top
48:10
all time performances in the 5K like the 5000 meter run and like
48:14
28 were from or Kenyans. I'm like that is.
48:17
Just it's insane. I listened to a podcast once and
48:19
they kind of came to the conclusion there wasn't
48:21
necessarily a reason. But yeah, I think the Boston
48:23
Marathon female winner was Kenyan, just like this past
48:26
week. Nice, I'm pretty sure.
48:28
Yeah, I've, I've read about a lot about you.
48:30
I think there's like certain like, you know, areas that are
48:32
higher. It's just a combination of
48:34
things. It's like, you know, higher
48:37
altitude, so there's training. It's culture because like
48:39
running is like obviously like the like the sport of choice.
48:42
It's like a little bit of genetics, like slightly longer,
48:44
like leg to torso ratio. I.
48:46
Didn't get any of that. I'm still.
48:51
Next to you I know of the two of us, the the Birmingham, MI kids,
48:56
the better better. Runner Have you ever run a
48:59
marathon? No, and I think I'm not going to
49:02
my knees. Just can't take it.
49:03
I was, I was 1/2 mile Miller type guy.
49:07
Yeah, the marathon runner from this winner from this recent
49:09
Boston Marathon ran like like 439 pace.
49:13
So he ran a 439 mile multiplied 26 times in a row.
49:17
It's, you know, I definitely could have run a 439 mile in my
49:21
heyday, like no problem. I was like in the, you know, I
49:23
wasn't a mile, but in practice I was running four 20s and stuff.
49:26
But after, after 420, I had to stop, Right, Right.
49:31
Immediately stop. I was extremely tired, you know?
49:35
Oh my. God, that's amazing.
49:37
To run 430, Yeah. So they're just a different
49:39
breed. Crazy.
49:41
All right, maybe that'll be our goal.
49:42
Next year. We'll do 26 more episodes or 35
49:45
more episodes, and we'll run a marathon LA.
49:49
Marathon. Wait, 35 episodes.
49:50
Oh, OK. This is 35.
49:52
Can you? Can you even imagine?
49:53
I thought you meant like 26 because it was 26 miles in a
49:57
marathon. It's like we'll do an episode
49:59
every mile. Every mile.
50:03
Honestly, at my pace you might be able to do it.
50:05
Yeah, Trans Pace. That's about right. 435.
50:09
There'd be very quick, quick episodes.
50:10
We just have to play all the musical jingles, right and tell
50:12
each other. All right, Speaking of musical
50:16
jingles, let's edit one in because if you want to build
50:20
wealth, all you got to do is follow the 2 Rules of Personal
50:23
Finance Club. Rule #1 live below your means
50:26
and rule #2 invest early and often.
50:28
See you next week. The Personal finance Club show
50:30
is produced by Jeremy Schneider and Jen Mundia, music by Esabalu
50:34
and Homie. Send your questions to podcast
50:36
at personalfinanceclub.com. The Personal Finance Club show
50:40
is Co hosted by Jeremy Schneider who is a co-owner of Nectarine,
50:43
an SEC registered investment advisor.
50:46
The views expressed on this show are those of the hosts and
50:49
guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Nectarine.
50:52
Please refer to hellonectarine.com for all
50:55
relevant disclosures. This podcast is for
50:57
informational and educational purposes only and should not be
51:00
construed as personalized investment advice or a
51:03
solicitation to buy or sell any security.
51:06
Listeners should consult their own financial, legal or tax
51:08
professionals for advice specific to their situation.