Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Flashback Marginalized Joy

Transcript

Flashback Marginalized Joy · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Natalie here for the last episode of
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the month where we are doing flashback episodes since we
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: have gotten some new listeners on the team. This week's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: episode is going to be our episode with Julia Washington
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: from Prose and Glow and Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and Jellypop's Book Club, where we talked about the effects
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that patriarchy and misogyny have on joy and how our
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: joy becomes marginalized when we are marginalized voices who aren't white,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: privileged men. So enjoy this episode. I hope that it
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: gives you some clarity and a sense of feeling in
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: community when it comes to this time that we are
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: currently living through, and if you are having a really
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: hard time finding the joy in your day to day day,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: hopefully this offers you some laughs and helps you not
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: feel so alone. I will see you next week. Hey tolerators,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: listens to all the men I've tolerated before with Nathley Katona,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today we have one
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: of our favorite and most true guests, the Julia Washington
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: from Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous or our spin off
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: shows Still Comfy, where you hear us talk about our
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: comfort movies like Mermaids, which share where I realize that
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a fourteen year old Winona Rider had sex with the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: grown bus driver Jules. Thank you for being here to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: talk about marginal life. Joy, I'm glad to be back.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I love coming on your show because I love your show.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I love your show. Oh my god, that's so weird.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I love our show.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I love our show too. Oh my god, I just
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: we're just it's so good, my god, Oh my god.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Have I ever told you that you're my most favorite
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: cousin and that you're so beautiful? All these poor people
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: who like don't know what we're talking about.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Join the patreoch Like I streamed my family funeral on
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the Patreon, Like I was like, hey, everybody, it's just
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: me Aunt Rose's funeral.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's funny doing the good work. You
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: out here doing the lowercase lord's work. I'm gonna keep
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: that in. I did.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I hope that people do join the patriot and they're like,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: did she lives strain her stream her aunt's We thought
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: that ally respected.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Death got trying the patreon to find out you join
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: the patreon to find out.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I do respect death in the way that I respect
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: anything that I long for every night as I laid
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: me down to sleep. So people are going to be
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: calling me after this episode to be like, are you good?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Are you okay? If you need me to save.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: You, It's fine. It's it's called feminine joy. Stop marginalizing it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Let's start there.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're aware, but one of the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: ways that the patriarchy and misogyny tries to make sure
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that women feel small and insignificant and like they shouldn't
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: vote for things or have body autonomy is by literally
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: making sure that every twist and turn should they feel
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: happy they're getting a slap on the wrist.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Did you know this? Oh, one hundred percent. I feel
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: like you touched on it in our Barbie episode. I. Oh,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: that's so weird. I feel like that's what spawned this idea.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's so weird. I do have on my
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: outline the Barbie movie, because honestly, the Barbie Movie was pink,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: but it was also about misogyny and therefore men big mad.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody I truly love and respect was like she
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: saw it the first time. I was like, oh my god,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I loved it so much I cried. It was so good.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Da da da, and it's like, welcome sister. And then
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: she went back and took her husband. Big mistake, and
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: she goes, oh, but then he wound it for me
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: because she's just an attack on men and da da da.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh baby, oh baby, oh baby,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: did you talk to him?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Man?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: We would have told you not to.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I could have told you your husband was gonna shit
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: all over it, because this person is one of those
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: people who's all about like, you know, yes, feminism, equality,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: gonna stuck in a box. What if we just stopped
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: dating men? Oh? Wait, I did? You did? I, however,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: can't control the carnal urges that I have when I
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: see certain men. So I'm working on that therapy. Maybe
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I need a new kind of therapy. Are they real
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: men or are they just men on the TV? I
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: mean it's a little of both, Okay. Valid If I
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: was in La recently and I was like, oh, fucking
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: forgot how hot the men are down here? They're like, oh,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: you're cute, let's get back in a bar.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So I think, what So, as you know, we're millennials
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and we're broken inside.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Have you heard.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And one of the ways that millennials have chosen to
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: combat our brokenness.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Is to.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Nostalgically get things that we were either denied as children
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: like Barbie tree houses or would have wanted as children
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: aka my Sqush Mellow collection. Yes, and I would like
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to say that I grew up in a household where
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: men were just given toys left and right, like little
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: figures for D and D you like old men love
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to play with a with a remote control aircraft.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Drunk.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: My brother in law got bows and arrows and rock'm
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: sock and robots and everything for Christmas, which my sister
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: would and I would then steal. But anytime women buy
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: themselves a toy or spend money on themselves, how dare
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: there's this like ridiculous pushback on it, Like, well, don't
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you think that's a little frivolous? Yeah, and it's we've
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: also been pigeonholed into the things that we should spend
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: our money on, our shoes and which is also deemed
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: frivolous and our childrens our children.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Like how many women do you know? I know a lot.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't buy this for myself. I really should be
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: spending money on the kids, ma'am, when's the last? Like
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: because I like to get facials. I like to go
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: get a massage once in a while, like and not
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: even just facials because I want the spa day, but
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: because sometimes you need an industrial strength person to remove
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the layers of trash off your skin because the environment
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: is garbage now. But then it also just feels good.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: But like you know, or I bought a new paint sets,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I could never. Or if we go shopping,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: like you know, I moved into a house a year ago,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, you know, I wouldn't spend that
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: kind of money, but you did just get a hat
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and it's like, I'm sorry, what like what like let
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: me have that? Thank you?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And it is not my problem that everything that I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: love and hold true and is a hobby costs money.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Like that's not on me. I didn't create capitalism, right,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it's not our fault.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Don't don't fucking shit on my parade because some white
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: men in a boardroom decided to charge me thirty five
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: dollars or something that should be ten.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: That should be ten. And I didn't create capitalism. Is
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: not my fault that in order to do the things
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: that I find fun. I have to buy supplies and
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: shell out money, then put those supplies away, forget that
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: they're there, start a new hobby, spend some more money.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: And that's not marginalized. Joy, that's just the ADHD cycle
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: right out of sight, out of mind, site, out of mind.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Everything in this house needs to be clear, so I
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: remember that I own it. Yeah, Like somebody the other
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: day came over and was like, why are all your
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: why is all your food on the counter? Why is
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: it in the cabinets? It's like, oh, your brain must
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: be quote normal, because the minute those boxes go in
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the cabinet, I'm gonna forget I have them and buy
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: all new food. Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I buy two bags of shredded cheese every time
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I'm at the store, and then eventually one day I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: have twelve bags of shredded cheese. I'm like, why do
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I buy shreddy Because I'm so fearful of not having
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: cheese in the house.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: What if I understand, what if I had to.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Put cheese on something did not have cheese in the house.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: That anarchy, that's a I mean, that feels criminal to me.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: And it is.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: But as you know, this summer, I went to the arastour,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: and as you know, I didn't have my tickets until
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the very last minute because a man ruined it for me.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: You remember this day when I was just screaming at you, even.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Though you were part of this no, but I felt
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: your pain and I was like, man, I wish I
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: was really wealthy so I could fix this. Yeah.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: So, and it's fine because they're not going to listen
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to this. The clue what happened was we got I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: didn't get a code for the Airs tour, which is
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: big bad because I like to be in control of
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: things because I'm the only person who can do anything right.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: That is my curse. That is the burden I bear.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I am the only person who can do anything right.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's a gift because when you finally
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: visit me, I'm going to have everything planned and you're
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: gonna be like, somebody else take care of all.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Of these things. I'm going to get to my brain yes.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: And then I'm gonna be like yes, because my gift
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: to you, because your gift to everybody else is to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: plan your trip. When you're here, Oh thank you.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I So I wake up the day and for whatever reason,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: We've decided to just take our chances with one code
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: instead of two or three codes that we had. And
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: then I find out that someone has to go drop
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: off their child at school, and therefore a husband has
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: been in charge of my Taylor Swift ticket, And I
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: was like, don't let husbands touch the computer when we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: trying to buy something, because this is what happens.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Every time a husband is.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: In charge of something that we want to do, they
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: don't give a fuck about it. Right, when was the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: last time a husband cared about anything that would bring
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: us joy?
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: They don't. I don't have a husband because I'm scared
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: they would ruin my joy. Right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I don't have a husband because I don't want him
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: to ask what I'm running my credit card for.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: It's none of his business, and vice versa. I don't
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: need to know what you're running your credit card for, honey,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Like you do you? I do me.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Let's make sure our bills get paid. Fay out of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: my house. And Taylor Swift got a lot of slack
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: because Ticketmaster created capitalism and made her tickets expensive, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: people are like, is it worth it? Is it worth it?
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, is the Super Bowl I care because
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you know what's not happening at the Taylor Swift concert
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking. But do you know what happens every year
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: at the Super Bowl?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Sex trafficking.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I read one Google article about it, and that's my
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: stance that everyone should have gotten off my back about
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: how much the Taylor Swift concert costs because I didn't
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: get harassed there. And it just boggles because of course
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the husband didn't care about our father, and like, here's
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the thing, the.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Where's the she bised tickets is put these things there?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Two out of three of us were willing to sell
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: our homes to go, because that is how the mania hit,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: and it hit hard.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I hear it was the once the lifetime opportunity. Well,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: and then she was like, what if I did a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: second leg twice in a lifetime opportuny?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: But whatever, She's smart, she capitalism, barbie. So some of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: us had already put our kidneys on the black market, well,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and some of us listen to men, and therefore she like,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: tickets would appear in our cart, and then someone who
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: wasn't even involved in our concert would go, that's really expensive.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And then we would debate back and forth Meanwhile, I
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: don't know that I'm on speaker with a man, So
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I'm screaming, who let a man in the room? Who
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: let a man involved in the arastour? Men have no
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: place at the erastour? So we didn't get tickets at day.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: We did not get tickets that day. And then I
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: took to the bed and all I could think about
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: when I could finally like categorize my feelings about this
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: is that no one questions men when they spend money
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: on recreation or in general or in general, like I
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: have life examples. So years ago, I had this really
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: good friend, we grew up together, we reconnected when she
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: moved back to California.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: She's dating I mean, this woman is fucking beautiful, of
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: course is she's dating the most basic white boy from
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a cowboy town nearby. He gets a massive DUI, which
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: then loses him his job with a gas company here
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: in California because of a very strict policy about your
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: driving record because they have company issued vehicles. Okay, so
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: this was going to be a life changing job for them.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: He gets a dui, loses that job, has tens of
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: thousands of dollars in fees. She gets one ticket, and
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: he's like, you're not allowed to drive. I'm not putting
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you on the car insurance anymore. What so when she
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: tells me this, because then it turns into, well, now
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you have to come pick me up if we want
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: to hang out and do stuff. Fine, but also, do
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: you see the problem. That's the sole problem, because your
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: husband literally just fucking ruined your lives financially and lost
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: his job and it's gonna have a hard time getting
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a job in the trade he trained for because he
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: has to have a clean driving record and you're not
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: allowed to drive because you got one ticket that costs
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: fifty dollars.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Everyone, that's spousal abuse. That's not even like he rasped
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: her a little hard, or it's become some big family
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: legend joke or whatever the fuck my family would do
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: in that situation. That's like literal abuse.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Uh huh uh huh. And I don't know how it
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: is in other states. I'm sure it's probably true in
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: other states. You in California, it is the law to
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: have car insurance, Like any licensed driver is technically required
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: to carry the limited level or whatever car.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: What is car insurance for? Because every time I go, oh,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I can really use insurance for that. Some man is like,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: you can't. You can't just use your insurance And I'm like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: what do you mean, I can't just use my insurance? Uh,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the monthly premium will go up if you dare look
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: at don't even log into the app. And I'm like, okay,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: then what is it for?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, so that like that's the extreme side of it,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: where it's just like no, no, you just cost the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: family and a life altering event in a way that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: could have like been for the better. But she ain't
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: allowed to drive, like make it make sense. She didn't
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: like it when I brought it up. They never like
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it when I bring when I bring these things up
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: because I'm the man hater, which is a lie, Natalie,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: You and I both know. I open a lot of
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: messages to you with I know you're going to disagree,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: but hear me out, and then I go on some
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: sort of.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Like apology tour, a biology tour for men, or.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Like it's men at large or a specific one you know,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: specific man in particular, because I still love men. Yeah,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: and I told you that, Like, Jules, did you know that,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: like you could get a suction cup one and then
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you just put it on the shower. Okay, they make that.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I didn't know if you knew. Do you know what
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: else I'm tired of.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I'm tired of women congress in one place and cracking
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: jokes and being fun and wooing it up and getting
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: drinks or whatever, and then fangirling at the Barbie or
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the Taylor Swoft concert and the main told that we're insane.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Look at those girls over there, They're insane. Women are
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: so much work. Or like, in the case of being black,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: too loud, Oh sassy, sassy.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: You're being a little you're being a little sassy. You
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: guys are too loud? Can you please? And like, I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: don't know if this made national news, but we had
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: an incident here in California where a group of black
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: women went to a winery having a great time living
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: their best life, because that's what women do, joyful, beyond
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: all get out. Yes girls day one percent, and they
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: were asked to leave because they were being too loud
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: the wine tastings outside.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: It's outside, we are outside. There's no noise level for outside.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And it was like okay, like and you know, I'm
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: for me. It was like, oh that they.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Got they are being targeted because they are black, Because
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: did they ask any of the other groups to leave
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: who were probably also doing the same exact thing. No, no, no.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I was at a restaurant with my coworkers when I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: were I was the only white person in my you know, department,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and we went out to lunch. And by lunch, I
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: mean it was four pm. Because they wouldn't let us
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: actually take a break. Ah, that's not legal, and that's
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: not legal. And we went and we were at a
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: restaurant and we were whooping it up. We were like,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: you know, having a great time, and we were laughing
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and an old white man came to our
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: table and I think, this is actually worse if instead
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: he had just told us he was going to management
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Somehow this made me feel worse. An old
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: white man came up to the table and he's like, hey,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to let you guys go that I'm
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: moving me and my wife somewhere else. But he literally
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you. I just want to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: be able to hear the TV and and one of
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: my and I'm just side eye eed him. I'm like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: what the fuck is this old white man trying to
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: get at.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Because it like, is he trying to be like, I'm
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: not moving because your group is black.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm not moving because your group is black and loud,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: loud and black if you will.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. That's like it's like he's trying to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: be he's so hard.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: He's like, hey, this has nothing to do with the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: color of your skin. You're just obnoxious as hell. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm I'm making my dumb, dumb head tilt,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: like what the fuck is this white man getting at?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna have to fight, And as the sole
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: white person at the table, I'm like, don't worry, I've
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: got it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I have a fight. Yeah, And then he wanders away,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and then everyone has to turn to me, whitey and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: be like, you know what was happening there?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know what was happening. I live in this world.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I love this world, and you're not blind to it
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: because there are some there are a lot of white
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: people that are Sorry, white people who are listening, well,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I need you to wake up.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: And as you know, I think the difference is and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we've talked about how I grew up in a family
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that was very loud and where the women were always
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: in charge and always the loudest.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Same. I mean when people find out in Black
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and Italian, they're like, oh, your family reunions, huh, And
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, I'm like, yeah, but also
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: you were saying that, but also yes, and we've talked.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: About the creation of it all and like whether or
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: not that has merit for me to experience the things
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: that I experience or to be a little bit more
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: aware of the things that I'm aware of. And I
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: mean we have, like we haven't gotten kicked out of
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: restaurants before, but we've also been very mindful of like
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: telling the hostess or something like, Hey, you're going to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: want to put us in a back room. If there's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: a room with an extra wall, that's where you're going
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: to want to have us, right, That's where we're going
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: to have to go. And I was at a family
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: functioned this last weekend and a cousin and I were
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: joking about how my family would make a great sitcom.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: And one of my cousin's wives, who I don't spend
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: that much time with, but I was having a little
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: one on one time with, she went, oh, speaking like
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: how women hate themselves for being joyful or happy or
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: having needs. She just went, ough, I just know that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: when you write the TV show, you're going to make
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: me out to be the worst cut character. Number one,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: you're my third cousin who says you're making the cut,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: but also the number two. She's like, I just know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and then everyone will know that I'm the worst in
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: this family. And I looked at her. I go, Meanwhile,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: my drunk ass male cousin are like headbutting one another in.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: The yard.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Without helmets. Without helmets, there was caramel apple moonshine. They're
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: literally just like doing feet of strength in the yard.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I need to come to a family reunion,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you know when like rams just like why that's what
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: they're doing? Yeah, just in a circle. And I was like, hey,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: hey girlfriend, hey love, do you think out of everyone
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: in this yard, it's going to be you that I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: have material? Number One, you married into my family. Maybe
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: that is my material on you, that you were dumb
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: enough to marry into my family and choose this. I
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: was just born into this legacy. Yeah, this is my bloodline,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: This is my bloodline. This is your children's bloodline, right,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: this is just my legacy.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, I think you're gonna be real. Chill
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: is gonna be good for you. I was like, I'm
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: probably gonna write an entire episode. I just point at
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: some random cousin and I'm like, I'll probably write an
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: entire episode though about how I almost had to fight
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: that one in the yard for calling his girlfriend now
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: wife dirty names in front of me, and none of
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: my uncles would pick his ass. So I was like,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I'll kick your ass. I'll kick your ass. Shut your
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: motherfucking mouth trying to show off for your little boyfriends.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And then I looked each one of his little dudes
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: in the eye and I was like, hey, you impressed.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And then they got scared. They're like, y, it was scary. Ooh.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'll kick your ass in front of
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: all of them right now, and then I will pack
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: her up and put her in my car and we
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: will move away from you.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: What is it about wanting to cut us at the
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: quick when it comes to our expression and joy? Like,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that's the thing that I get stuck on all the
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: time because I love seeing people being happy. I love
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: seeing people enjoying life. Yeah, what is it about, like
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the people who want to like come in and like
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: put you in your place about your joy and happiness
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that gets them off.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Like that doesn't make any sense to me, I'm pretty sure.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Is it power? Well?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, so I think what it is down at the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: very core of it is if I'm happy because of
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, or if I'm happy because all of me
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and my auntie's are in some knitting circle, or if
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I'm whooping it up with my coworkers or whatever, I'm
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: happy outside of you. Men have yet to like catch
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: up on the how will they make us happy? Because
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: they've never tried, had to try hard, and now there
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: are more avenues for me to be happy without them,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and therefore they become like teen on a row of
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: twelve things that I could choose from.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: So it falls all the way back into the whole
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: structures of patriarchy, which is we are only here to
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: exist to uphold you, and then you add that layer
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of race and we are only here to be property
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: so you can build your capital. Yes, So that that's
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: the root cause. Okay, So that is incredibly frustrating because
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: because it falls in line with the whole like you
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: did something for centuries and then and then when you
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: released us, yeah, may black people, and then you're like
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: mad because we can't quite figure it out. It's like, well,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: we have centuries of deprogramming and trauma to work through,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: so no, we won't stop talking about it. And then
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: for women it's like, well, we can actually like hold
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: property now and like jobs now, so no, we're not
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: gonna forget about it.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Basically, because you remember when I almost drammed myself in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a pool because I was proud of myself, and a
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: man and a man I was sleepy with said I thought,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: no one liked you.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And if that's not the biggest theme of my childhood
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of me being proud of by myself, and it's some
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: man or some misogynistic woman coming in right over my
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: shoulder to just like whisper in my ear, Hey, no
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: one likes you.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I had an experience when I was in junior college
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: and my son was little, and I was looking at
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: transferring and I saw that Columbia had a really strong
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: writing program, and I was like, oh, I could go
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: to I have family on the East Coast, Like it
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be completely out of the blue if I decided
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to go to school in New York and then like
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: visited family that lived in New Jersey and other areas
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: of the East Coast. And we're out at this bar
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: one night because my friend's band was playing and I
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: was talking about It's like, oh yeah, I'm looking into
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you know, what I need to do to transfer to Columbia,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Like what are the requirements as a transfer student? Like
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: with GPA classes blah blah, mind you. Now, I had
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: been actively writing, Like my writing has changed over the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: U but like I was actively writing a short story
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: every week. I was taking writing classes like I was.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: This was like a period of time I think it
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: was like twenty five or twenty six years old where
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: it was like, this is going to be the career
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I'm pursuing. This guy who I used to think was
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: how until he said these very words to me, you
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: think you can get into Colombia.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, Jules, did you think kindly of yourself for a moment?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you don't think I can. And
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it was like a literal standoff. And because of other
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: issues that were happening at the time, I never tried.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And that's a whole that's a separate there's compounded issues
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: because twenty six was not a good year.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Up there are always compounded issues, like the reason I'm
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: not a marine biologist or a veterinarian or a history
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: teacher or whatever is because a woman who.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Upheld patriarchal values or a white man told me I
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be good at it. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm so
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: impressed with the people who hear those negative things out
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: of other people's mouths and go challenge accepted, and do
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: it anyway. Because one of the things that I do
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: kind of regret is not applying to all of the
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: universities that I looked into back then, because I don't
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: have an on campus college experience outside of junior college,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and that is a regret for me, Like I wouldn't
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: be as angry about my student loans had I made
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: like true friends and connections through university. I did the
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: introverts guide to getting a degree, but it was like,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it's like so then, like I want to say, maybe,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: like at my birthday this past year, I did go
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: through all the things that people said to me and
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: how I let it influence and impact me and the
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: decisions I ended up making for my life. And I
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: spent some time sitting in embarrassment and shame for allowing
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: that to impact me. And then, as you know, now
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I no longer give a fuck because I did everything
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I was supposed to do and was told to do
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and none of it worked out. Yeah, so now I'm
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: just doing what the fuck I want for my career.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: But it's like, it's like, how dare you say that
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: to me? Like how dare you say that to anybody?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: You think you're good enough to get into Columbia? And
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: if the tone was different, maybe the conversation would have
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: gone differently, but it was very much. He didn't think
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I was a smart woman. He only saw me as
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: a beautiful piece of ass. So for me to say
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: that I would like to go to Columbia was like
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: loo Grom's an unpuculator. So I can't believe you said that, which, no,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: we did not engage, because after you say things like
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: that to me, you're dead to me, dead.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I So what this is bringing up for me that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: one of the handhelds that is true is not only
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: as feminine in women being joyful a threat, but when
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: we take that joy and we actually have pride within ourselves. Hell,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: holy hell, does the fragility, just boil.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And come to a rise in a room.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Because as a child I was surrounded by loud people
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: who were proud. I mean, when I came back from
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: the funeral, I told you as like, no matter what
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: cousin it is, no matter what family member it is,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: they wait walk up to you, and they're like, oh
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: my god, you're my fucking favorite.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: You've always been my favorite.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You're the most beautiful and smartest person that I've ever
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: looked at. So I grew up with that mindset that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I was beautiful and the smartest and the favorite. And
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I had great uncles who cried at the mere thought
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and sight of me because I was so beautiful and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: perfect and smart. And then I had other men in
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: my life who were very insecure, so their fear response
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was to always go, couldn't you just run your mouth
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit less and be a little bit more humble.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: But I don't ever see little boys being told to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: be humble, right, there's a lot of ego boosting for
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: a look at what you did. You're so strong. Yeah, yeah,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you're so strong. They're so funny.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to telling little girls they're pretty, but
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I'm also going to add something else to it, right, because,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: like I know, we're not supposed to comment on people's looks,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: but I fucking love being told I look pretty. I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: love being told I look amazing. I fucking love it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Sorry you were gonna make a point, go.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Ahead, no, As you know, my favorite part of the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Barbie movie was actually when I was walking back to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: my car and three women stopped to tell me that
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: my outfit was perfect and I was the most beautiful
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Barbie they've ever seen.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love it, I love it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, I've literally forgotten what the entire movie
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: was about because I love pretty. I love it, and
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I love when my and I love when my moronic
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: family gets into a room and we just shout at
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: everyone about how beautiful we are.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I mean truly, Like I think I texted you, as
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: maybe I texted somebody else, but the family Picks came
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: in from our family event over the summer, and I
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: was like, look at all these gorgeous.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: A most beautiful family in the entire world.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get this one printed in friends and maybe enlarged,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: and that's gonna be the first thing you see when
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you walk into my house, and the best is like
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: when we finally get the wherewithal to take a family photo,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: it's nine pm.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: We're all blasted and we can barely like arrange ourselves
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: into some sort of line.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: My cousin's wife is very good at making sure we
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: do it all before anybody's and God bless her.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I grew up in a household were my only messaging
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: ever if I was having like and I have very
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: many days where I felt good about myself. As we know,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: humor is usually a coping mechanism for hating yourself, right,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: so it was just my self defense mechanism. But I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: was told as a child all the time, just be
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: more humble. Now you don't have to You don't have
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to be the person who's always talking in the room.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Don't bother your aunts and uncles. They don't want to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: hear about your school. Don't bother them. Why are you
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: bothering people? And and eventually, when I moved out of
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: that mindset, my mindset switched to the how fucking dare
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you tell me that I don't deserve space within my
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: own family, within my own career, within my own life.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: But when you're a kid and all your hearing is
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: stop bothering people, right, No, you your grandma does not
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: want to talk to you. I'm talking to grandma.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Go away. They You just are made to feel like,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: oh I I'll just go shirk in this corner, and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: no wonder. Women only feel validated when someone looks at them.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: People aren't ever looking at us when we're When people
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: do that in my life to the children in my
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: life now, I'm always like, I always like, in a
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: hushed tone, explained to them that it's not about them,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: and just sort of because whenever anybody says stuff like that,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: it makes me feel like I'm six years old again,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and I hate that feeling like it sucks. And I've
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: told you this too, like it is my when you
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: walk into my house, you will not be treated like
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: a burden because I have that experience down adulthood and
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I fucking hate it. And then when I realized, oh,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: that's a huge part of my life that I sort
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: of had blocked out and it came back to my
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: forefront of memories, I was like, not in my house,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: We're not doing that shit. Nobody who comes and sets
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: foot in my door is not going to feel welcomed.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: We're not telling anyone to shut up.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: We're not telling anyone to shut up. If they want
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: to have a conversation with you, you need to say
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: excuse me, let me finish this conversation, and then I
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: will have a conversation with if it's a child, because
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: that's my biggest thing. Like, we had a family member, Uh,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: the littlest daughter was, you know, wanted attention at the
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: dinner table, and she's starting to tell stories about the
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: other members in her family unit, and those members is
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: shut up, shut up, just shut up? Why are you
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: still talking? Just shut up? So I looked at her
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and I said, honey, they don't want you to like
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: who's the story about. And she was like, well my sister.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay, then your sister needs to be
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: the one to tell that story. And she doesn't want
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: that story told, So I think you need to find
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: something else to tell us. And she got quiet and
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: she thought about it, and then she found a story
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: about herself to tell. But everyone else in that family
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: unit was telling her to shut up. And with that,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and there's no reason for you know what I mean, Like,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: there's a reason behind So I explained it to her.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I think it is ten at the time, she understood
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: it and then picked a different thing to talk about
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: because they're yelling at her to shut up. And all
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling in my own self, which means I should
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: probably go get more therapy, is all of my family
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: members telling me to shut up, telling me I'm too loud,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: telling me that I need to stop and go away.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Not all of my family members.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Or you know, the louder of the family members, the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: ones I like to feel, the one sept for whatever reason,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: we hunt our entire hopes and dreams on their opinion
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: of us. Well, because I was also that kid. I
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: was a kid who witnessed a lot of storytelling being
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: brought up. And I think my aunt said something about like, well,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: if only any of us had been talented or whatever.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And I excuse me, where do you think I get
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: my comedic timing and my ability to craft a story?
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Because we're still cave people sitting around a fire just
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: telling the hits and the round, Like.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Isn't that funny? How that's what we end up doing
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: regardless of how much technology exists. Go ahead, So I
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: grew up going.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: To wedding's funerals barbecues Saturday nights and my aunts or whatever,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: just listening to stories, and they were always the same
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: story as all the time. So then eventually you're a
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: child who understands comedic timing, comedic beats and plot points.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: So then you feel like you should be welcomed into
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the experience because this is an experience that you are
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: actively a part of. But everyone else is so wrapped
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: up in getting to be the person who hits the
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: joke or getting to be the person who corrects someone
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: about the story or whatever that when you're a kid,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: that's just being like and then Grandpa, you're like, you
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: don't even know Grandpa. Okay, that's true, Grandpa did die
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: before I was born, but thank you for bringing that up. Okay,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: may he rest in peace. And so it becomes very
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: confusing as a kid because you're like, I thought that
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: this was a part of our family unit, and when
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: you tell me that I can't take part in it,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: you're kind of telling me that I can't be part
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of the family unit. And I think that we're giving.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: That message a lot when it comes to just like
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: joy in general, where it's like joy is only for
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of people, it's for people who fit
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: a very hell normative white people mold. The American dream
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: is built on the idea that we should all be
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: white and male and rich because they deserve to have
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: the joy. Anybody else is not deserving because you didn't
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: work hard enough to exploit other people. They worked so hard,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Jules colonizing all of those countries. I mean, it's really
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: hard to take out nations of people, apparently, and there's such.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: A backlash currently going on. Like, Okay, I tried to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: start up this conversation with people about Rachel Zigler and
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the Snow White disco.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so like that discourse is so dumb to me. Like,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: here's this young girl.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It's her second, maybe third big movie role, and she's
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: like the lead, and she's been the lead in Maria
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: in Westside Story, Like she is at the Virginie of
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: her career taking off that.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: She's gonna be in the Hunger Games prequel movie, right, yeah, And.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: For whatever reason, she's allowed to do press for Snow
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: White and it not be crossing a picket line, which
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I guess is none of my business. Maybe all of
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the stuff I'm saying is old press. I don't know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: you can tell that she's like manically proud of this
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: movie that she's made and this character that she got
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to like craft or whatever, and she's.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, she's a girl's girl. She wants to run
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: her kingdom, she wants to learn politics, she wants to
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: be the ruler of her kingdom. She's not taken a
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: nap and waiting for some prince to molest her or whatever.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And she's just so manically excited. And gal Gado's in
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: the background going, yeah, yeah, we don't need no prince.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: And all of these basic white ladies who I guess
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: hung their hopes and dreams on the fact that one
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: day they would take a nap and a man would
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: kiss them and all of their problems would be better.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: That's called a salt, that's called assault.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: All of these women are like white. Even call it
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: so white if it's not going to be upholding the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: snow white narrative and the original beautiful story about that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old taking a nap and being molested.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: You know what's even more gross about it is that
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: one of Disney's descendants got in on the conversation. And two,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: we all know that Disney took all of these stories
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: from the original storyteller and distilled them down to make
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: them these like happy, beautiful fairy tales. We just recorded
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: about Rapunzel on my show. It hasn't aired yet, and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know when this is gonna air, so I
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: don't know. It doesn't matter. The point is is and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: we talked about the original story of Rapunzel versus Tangled,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: and I love Tangled. So it was a great movie
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and I was a joy to discuss. But it was
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: also this moment of like, yeah, you can't. How are
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: you going to tell the original story of Rapunzel in
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: this modern era? Like it is gone? Like now I
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: know why I'm terrified of falling into like rose bushes
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: right like that, it reminded me that I don't like
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: being near rose bushes.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: And here's something that boggles my mind. I was like,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: so no one ever thought that it was ridiculous that
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise and this day of age would get into
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: another fighter plane and.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: How two yeah a.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Year old, I'm Tom motherfucking Cruise, I'm Maverick.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Maverick. But back to your snow white point, Like
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: if you get into the true story of like the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Little Mermaid, the Beauty and the Beast, rob Red, Little
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Red Riding Hood. That's about great. They're all very graphic.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, like these Grim, the Brothers Grim. It's almost
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: like no, like Grim is right. The story of the
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Little Mermaid is so grotesque because of the way that
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: they described how she becomes human in the end.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they slice her fin in half.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a reason this. He was like, we're gonna
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: make this a little bit more palatable, pretty like that's
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: what they do. So everyone who's like hinging on the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: snow White Disney version, I need to take I need
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: them to take a children's literature class with the Norton
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Anthology of Children's Literature and do some fucking reading. So
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: here's the thing.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: My hero, Brendan Lee Mulligan, he did an entire season
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: on Dimension twenty. It was spooky, uh fairy tales and
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: it was the never After, And he, like myself, is
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: a scholar in fairy tales, so he telled the grotesque
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: versions and then wrap that into the horror of the season.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's brilliant now, because he's my hero,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: and the thing of it is is that, like we
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: have fairy tales not because we were trying to get
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: women to conform to misogyny and patriarchal norms and capitalism
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: and whiteness.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: We have fairy tales because we were trying to scare
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the shit out of kids into behaving. It's like, hey, correct,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I dare you. I dare you to not listen to
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: me and walk off that fucking path and go into
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the woods.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: A wolf.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: A wolf is going to eat you, and that will
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: be the nicest thing that he does.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: They're in one of my child classes. We read three
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: different versions of a red writing Hood and the one
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: that I can't get out of my head warning right now,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: not great. She gets eaten by the wolf and then
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: she just like stabs her way out like a badass,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: like a badass. And I was like, well, I didn't
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: way about this when I was six.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: My dad actually did give me the original grim fairy
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Tales when I was a kid. And maybe that's why
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I'm fucked.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Or maybe that's why it was hard to keep you programmed.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe, But here's Rachel Ziggler. She's a young woman. She's
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: just trying to be proud of her work, and everyone
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: is coming for her and being like you're being disrespectful,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and she's like, I wasn't trying to be disul. I
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: was trying to be proud of the work that Disney
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: paid me to do. And they're like, you're a blight
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: on the Disney name. I was like, cool, thanks.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: We have an entire TV show on Hulu called Shrill,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and it's about how fat women are allowed to be
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: joyful a book by Lindsay Westwest. We're like, when we
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: don't fit into these very white, very capitalistic, very male
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: centric norms. If I'm not a sex figure, if I'm
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: not Jessica Rabbit, and you don't get hard when you
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: look at me, then I don't deserve to smile. But
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I'm also murdered if I don't smile. So it's very confusing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I love that came out
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of them making Shrill, so.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: In the first season, they have this big pool party
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: and all the women are of varying shapes and sizes,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: varying colors, varying abilities. Those women kept that party going
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: all every year since they were filmed the first season,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: and I fucking love that because it's like saying because
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Shrill basically was like here's what we need from you
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: for our show, and they're like, cool, we're into it.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: And then when they did it, they're like, this is
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the best thing ever. Why haven't we been doing this
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: all the time, Probably because everyone's telling me you take
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: up too much space and you're not allowed to have
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: any fun, and then continue to do it like that's
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: the kind of shit I love, because it's like you're
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: saying it's not like you're saying. They are saying, this
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: was fun. We deserve it. Fuck all y'all party every
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: year when so a lot of women have crowd anxiety.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not, they have been in public anxiety.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that came out of that
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: pool party and the aerostur and just being in spaces
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: where feminine joy wasn't tampered with or dampened down or
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: ridiculed or put us in danger is that women were like,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Afraid of crowds. I'm not afraid of being in my
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: baby zooe. I'm fucking afraid of men because we removed
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: them out of the equation, or we made so few
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: of them feel welcomed in that space that they didn't
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: come in their normal numbers and therefore there was no one.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, you said it during the Barbie movie that
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: you've watched a woman only laugh when her husband was
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: in the bathroom, right, and like, honestly, we should have
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: given her a business card, we should have come to
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the team.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I do think about it when I'm in that theater.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I'm always just like I should have said something to her,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: like I should have been like dd an exit route,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: blink twice because it does make me sad, because you
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and I've had this conversation multiple times, and I've had
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: this conversation with a former guest slash friend of my
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Nikki on my show. I do not want my space
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to be a space where I can't experience love, joy, happiness,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: sadness without being ridiculed. Like if you make me feel tense,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: then I can't have you in this space where I'm living.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: And I don't want you here, Like that's not healthy,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: that's not okay. I dated a guy one time. All
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: we did was bicker and it was hot in the beginning,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: but then after a while it was like, this is exhausting,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Like my parents have been doing this for fifty fucking years.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want it and he's like and then he
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: and then he started bickering with me about the fact
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: that I didn't want to bicker anymore. And I was
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: like trying to break it off with him.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: You're like, this is toxic, and he was.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Nuh, and it was just like, listen, I I just can't,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: like this is exhausting. I do not want to feel
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: drained by the time I get home. I want to
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: go home and experience home joy. And you're not contributing
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: to that. And yeah, and it just ended up being
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: a whole thing. And then and then he turned out
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: to be somebody who thought the vaccine was both vegetable
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you dodged it. And then if people would like to
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: know how this idea that marginalized joy? But what about me.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not a marginalized community. I'm straight and white and
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: beautiful cool. Should you ever become unemployed, or should you
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: ever have to rely on public assistance, or should you
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: ever go through an emergency that wipes your savings? I
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: don't know if you've realized this, but people in poverty
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: also aren't allowed to experience joy. And in fact, every
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: time someone buys his freeze pops with their food stamps,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: there's some bitchy lady in the line to be like, oh,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: so I see that my taxpayers dollars went to make
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: sure that your kid got a cake mix. That's cute,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: because poor kids aren't allowed to have birthdays.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Right, or shoes or that weren't from payless, which I
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: don't think exists anymore now, you know what I mean.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: It's just like this whole concept of like bootstraps, I
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: worked really hard, so I deserve all these things? What
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: have you done to deserve anything? Mentality is so toxic
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: and gets really in the way of like people having
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: empathy and understanding for a lot of things, Like there
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: was a period of time where black people could not
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: congregate together more than like three.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: At a time because it was illegal.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like, excuse me if we want to get
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: together and have a celebration. We were we were robbed
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: of that right for centuries.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: It's just of all of the stupid things that we
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: could keep gatekeeping. We were just like what if we
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: gate keeped like smiling, right and then and then.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: And then have the audacity to say, girl, smile today, girl,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: why aren't you smiling? You need to smile.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: More because we're only allowed to smile on their terms
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: when it's for their comfort and for their dicks, and
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: people of color are only allowed to smile and have
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: joy if it makes the white people in the room
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit more comfortable and a little less racist.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Right right, I'm sorry. It's not my fault that you
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: feel guilty for the past, Like, that's your business. You
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: need to work through that.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: And fat people are only allowed to be happy if
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: they've lost a couple of pounds or if someone's misassumed
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: that they've gotten skinnier.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I literally went on last night on stories on close
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Friends because it's all people I know in real life
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: or talk to or have talked to and have had
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: vulnerable conversations with. We got the family pictures back, and
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: I told you, was like, oh my god, my family's gorgeous,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: a beautiful. I love them. And then I zeroed in
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: on myself and I was like, what is that that's
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: happening there? Because in my head, I'm still working on
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: the deprogramming of what our bodies are supposed to look like.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: And I've always been a person who's like, oh I
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: gained ten pounds, easy fixed, I can just like switch
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: my diet real quick. Do a workout for three months
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: and it's gone, It'll be fine. Like I've always my
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: body's always responded really well to exercise. Like I did
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: a boot camp one time and I lost like fifteen
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: pounds in a six week boot camp and people were like,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: fuck you, that was so easy for you. It's like
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I've always worked out, Like I trained in danced from
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: four years old until eighteen, and I ran. I was
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: a runner. Like my body's like, you're not working out,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: You're gonna die kind of, And then I went through
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: a serious depression in grad school and gained a bunch
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: of weight and then COVID and so like now I'm like,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: but I've been working out. Why isn't it working? Like
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: I've been working out for almost two years? In my head,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I don't look like that. But it doesn't matter. It
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter the size of my body. I can outrun
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: a zombie apocalypse if I need to, Like, that's what matters.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I can bend in twist and ways, so that way,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: if I have to climb something and maneuver into like
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: a weird crawl space, I can do it. Like so
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: there's like there's still like that that cuckold of just
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: like you need to be able to buy size medium
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: and size eight wherever you go. No you don't, No
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: you don't. But it really did like hit me in
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: the face last night, and I was looking at the
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: photos because it was just like, again, I'm doing all
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: the things that people are telling me to do so
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I can look hot, and I felt like it wasn't working.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: But that's not but that's not looking like I still
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: look hot, Like I still look hot, it just doesn't
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: look like, you know, Heidi Klum hot. There's all varying
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: degrees of hotness.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, diet culture is a sham to sell you diet
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: coke and those one hundred calorie snack packs.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Because I'm gonna eat six of them because they leave
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: me fucking hungry.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Are there any other points that you wanted to hit
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: on when it comes to marginalized joy and why it
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it's a form of the patriarchy that we need to
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: all be aware of because sometimes we just think that like, oh,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: we should be humble, like we've taken it on, like
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: they're parables, and that they're like actually at tributes of
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: a good and healthy person.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Because that's the bullshit we're being told like, how dare
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: you be proud of yourself? Like, and the Barbie Movie
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: is a perfect example of that. And I know we've
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: already talked about the Barbie Movie. Everyone go back and
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: listen to that episode because I'm getting feedback that it
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: was amazing. But when Nobel Peace Prize Barbie wins her
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Nobel Peace or Nobel Writing Literature whatever. When writer Barbie
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: gets her Nobel, she's like, I earned this and I
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: deserve it. I worked hard. We don't give anybody unless
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: they're a white CEUs HEATERO male, that grace to be
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: able to say I deserve this. I earned it, because
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: what happens is is we force people into this humility
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: so that way, when we finally do stick up for
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: ourselves and say I deserve this, it comes out sounding
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: like I'm a brat because because you didn't even let
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: me have the space to say, no, I deserve it.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it. It's a good thing. And we're
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: made to feel guilty to do anything for ourselves that
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: we feel like we deserve. That isn't a necessity to survive.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Why do you think you deserve that? Like, how many
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: times have you heard that, and you're just like, uh,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I don't want to have to justify that. But now
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I'm on the spot and like, fuck you.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Well, remember when I had a family member die and
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: then felt like I had to go on a pr
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: tour on why I deserve to be at the funeral,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: that I deserve to grieve. I have memories and I
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: deserve to grieve and yeah, and every dprogrammed person I
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: talked to, Yeah, no, if you want to grieve, you
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: deserve that process.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Uh huh one hundred percent.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, other people who are like living in shame or
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, like, I don't know, are people going
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to want to deal with you. As we were doing
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: this episode, I started running through the deadly sins in
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: my head because, as you know, I was ruined not
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: only by capitalism but by Catholicism. Yes, and now I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: need a deprogrammed Catholic to come on and talk about
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: how all of the dead lysens are just like an
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: agenda to make sure that we don't think for ourselves.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, like one hundred percent. Yes, and it's all in
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: the name of humility. Ugh, you know, it's my trigger word.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I can't be humble, I refuse, uh huh.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: And there are moments I know my place when I'm
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: not going to talk because this is not a safe space.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: This in here is a safe space for me to talk,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: but like out outside of this room. And that's the difference,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I think too, where I'm just like I know better,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking. I don't have the energy for you
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: people who aren't deprogrammed.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: So I guess let's move into like big takeaways and manifestations.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: My biggest takeaway ta Valie is realizing just how much
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: blocking joy is rooted in control and patriarchy. Like I
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: think intrinsically I knew it. I think, deep down I
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: knew it, but today we verbalized it and said it
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: out loud, and it hit me. Yeah, and it'll keep
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: you up at night. It's gonna bother me all day.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Like didn't I open this telling you, Oh, I've adjusted
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: my day already because I only have limited capacity. I'm
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: not gonna adjust my day again.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I think my biggest takeaway is that, like the reason
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: why it's like you said, the reason it's not that
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to be joyful, it's that my joy
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: is a threat to you, and that actually has nothing
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: to do with me or my joy right, Like, if
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: you're a boyfriend sitting amongst all of my girlfriends and
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: you're just pissed off because we're funny and smart and
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: we haven't talked to you in fifteen minutes because you're
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: not interesting, that's actually because you're not interesting. We weren't
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: being mean to you. Be more interesting.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: The other part of it, too, for me, Natalie, is
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: so last that I was sitting on the couch and
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I had this memory of a boyfriend who used to
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: keep sort of a short beard, and he would come
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: up and just like rub my cheek with his cheek,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: and I just I love that. So I had this
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: very strong urge to have that feeling again, And it
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: made me realize that the kind of love that I'm
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: looking for is rooted in the two of us loving
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: and adoring each other and being in each other's corner
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: when joyful things happen, and supporting those things and just
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: really being like, unabashedly, authentically truly wanting to be together
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: as opposed to well, this is the structure and the
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: function that we need to do well.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: And think about how often you've had that relationship with
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: other women, But then think about the opposite where you've
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: encountered a woman who's been made to feel afraid of
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: that sort of love, so then she works against you.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Because women, because our joy has also been used as
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: a bargaining chip and as a as a scarcity mindset
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: to where we're like, well, if she's happy, and if
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: she's pretty, that makes me less happy and me less
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: pretty and me less smart, and who the fuck does she.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Think she is?
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: That's how we got Regina George right, And I think
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to move into my manifestation because when's the
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: last time you? When is the last time, honest, Scott,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: you ran into a mean girl? Because there used to
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: be adult mean girls too.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, I recently had to remove one from my life.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Good for you. Once I realized that that unit was very,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: very toxic. It was very it was very blinding to me.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: But then a couple of things happened and some light
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: showed up and I was like, hmm, my house, I
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: mean figuratively house, not in my world. Like I've since
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: removed those people, but look at how long it took
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: me to get it. And then prior to that, I
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: couldn't tell.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: You I can predate mine back to about a year
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: or two before COVID, so we're looking at twenty eighteen,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. And I cut her out of my life
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: because she had recently had a child, and we got
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: into an argument about the validity of pronouns for non
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: binary and trans people and I couldn't fucking.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Handle it, Oh my god.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: And I couldn't handle the idea that she was going
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: to raise a child and not be okay if the
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: stupid grammar chart and the stupid grammar books changed to
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: accommodate everybody, because that was my point. I was like,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: they'll just change the school curriculum and I'm just supposed
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: to be okay with that. And I'm like, yeah, curriculum
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: changes every year. Baby. We don't even teach bonnets anymore.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: So anyways, my whole point of like, when's the last
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: time you encountered a mean girl and then let her
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: stick around is I'm not seeing a lot of mean
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: girls anymore. And even the mean girls that I would
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: of categorized as me and girls that I kept in
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: my life because of blood ties, because of necessity, because
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: of whatever, they're kind of reformed. And I kind of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: and My biggest manifestation would be that, like more women
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: just gather and be joyful together. And because it's an
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: act of resistance. The Era's tour was an act of
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: resistance Beyonce Beyonce act of resistance, the Barbie movie Act
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: of Resistance, where she literally threw it in our face, like, no,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: this is an act of resistance, little women. My sister
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: and I holding hands sobbing to little women as my
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: brother in law just sat and watched and went, well,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: it's Christmas again and I'm in a movie theater watching
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: these two morons cry. Act of resistance when women gather
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: to feel all of the things that is woman, that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: is feminine, and it's the same across the board, when
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: black people gather to feel everything that is black joy,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: to feel everything that is to be a black person,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: to feel everything that it is to be a queer person.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: That's why pride is important. Now I have to start
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: participating in pride again. God damn it.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I got too depressed to participate, I know.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: But there's something about it though, because I was thinking
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: about it, as you know, we talked about, oh, let's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: talk about lorginalized joy, and I was thinking about it
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: for myself, I was like, I miss being connected to
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: the black community in the way that I was twenty
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: years ago. But I did so much isolation because of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: so many things that were happening in my life that
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: were outside influences that I was like, it's just better
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: to stay home because I can't control outside of the door.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Not that I was trying to control it, but it
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: was just like, I don't want to experience pain, so
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: I'm staying inside. And I recently started being I recently
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: realized too that a lot of the safety and comfort
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: that I found in my adolescence was in the queer community.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: My favorite coffee shop was own and run by gay men,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: and their friends showed up and it was they taught
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: me what a safe space felt like, and they taught
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: me what it was like to be adored and loved
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: in a way that like I seek from straight mena
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like, oh my god. But then two
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: with the black community, just that's sort of come here, baby,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: like let me hug you, like, you know, just this
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: sort of like we're here, we're protected because we have
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: each other feeling. When I'm in white spaces, I don't
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: feel that right, and there's an underlying hostility, and I
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: don't like it.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I know it's because white people grew up with so
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: much hate, just like in their history, and like not
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: in the way that like people of color in the
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: queer community, they grew up with so much hate in
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: their history because white people were the proponents of the hate.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Right, because in the black community it was like, Okay,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: we're turning into each other to comfort and love each
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: other because going out in the world is heinous. Yeah,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: we may not come.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: And I have literal almost to no control over the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: fact that I live in a world with patriarchy, with misogyny,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: with capitalist degreed, with white men who'll have used power
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: to go to the bottom of the sea to see
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: the Titanic. I am little to no control over that.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: But I have infinite control on how I can find
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: the pockets in these very abusive systems to say fuck
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: you today. I will be happy despite you.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you ready for my manifestation? I'm ready. Twenty twenty
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: four is coming or is here, depending on when the airs.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: This is a very important year. What the summer of
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three has taught us. Beyonce Barbie Taylor Swift
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: that when we come together, like Natalie said, we can
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: do great things. Fifty three percent of white women voted
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: for Trump in twenty twenty, which is up, which is
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: up from twenty six team. So my manifestation is that
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: the energy of summer of twenty twenty three takes us
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: into a very successful election season of twenty twenty four,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: and we have an outcome that doesn't render us more oppressed.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: We got it.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: We gotta start feeling okay that it's okay for us
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: to be happy, because why would we ever change legislation
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: that makes us unhappy if we, in turn don't actually
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: feel like it's our right to be happy? And we've
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: been told for centuries that is not actually our right
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: to be happy. That life is supposed to be hard.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: It's supposed to be a daily struggle, it's supposed to
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: be a daily chore. But I'm done, I refuse. I
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: have a brain and I have a heart, and that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: brain and that heart will only be focusing every day
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: on why I'm not happy and how do I get
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: back to being happy? Jules, thank you for being here,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you for coming up with you another of what
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the fuck would we call that premise for an episode.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: It's three am and I'm locked into a warehouse and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Brendan Lee Mulligan won't let me out because he's hoping
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I'll play D and D. That's a Dimension twenty joke.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: But they're always like, it's three am and in a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: warehouse in Fresno. I just passed Fresno yesterday. Thank you
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: for being here, Thank you for making sure that the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: show can move on, because every time we have one
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: conversation it leads to three.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just here helping you become the star you are.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: That's how we stay in business. Baby.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, tell everyone where they can find you.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Friends. Hello, if you don't know me, I am Julia Washington,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: and you just spent an hour with me and Natalie
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: on Natalie's Show.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: And you can find me on Instagram, The Julia Washington.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I host a little show called pop Culture Makes Me Jealous,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: where we analyze pop culture through the lens of race
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: or gender and sometimes both. I host another little show
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: where we compare book to screen adaptations and all the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: things literary over there, and you can read my monthly
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: entertainment and culture column in the online magazine known as
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Magazine and everyone.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: This is Stantley Patona with Talldman. I've tolerated before. You've
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: heard the commercial at the top of the show for
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: all of the nitty gritty on where to find us,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: but the most important one that I always plug is
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: the Instagram at men. I've tolerated pod because it is
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: the access point to I guess the Promised Land and
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: love that I am your Moses when it comes to
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: anti misogyny work and deprogramming. And remember out there, tolerators,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: you don't have to smile through anything you're tolerating, including
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: how uncomfortable you feel because you were joyful for five
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: minutes and someone told you it was wrong. Smiles at
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: for joy