Latest / Energy is Currency Podcast / Find the Problem, Build the Business: The NapLab Story
Transcript
- Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Welcome back to Energy is Currency. This is going to be such an interesting episode. ⁓ Today we are talking with Derek Hales. He is with the Nap Lab. And y'all, I think this is such a cool story. So listen, I'm gonna give him the floor. He's gonna catch us up on why he's so fricking cool. And then we're gonna break down how he turned his energy into currency. So Derek, my good friend, you have the floor, what's up? Derek: Well, thank you so much for having me. yeah, I guess a little introduction. My name is Derek Hales. I'm a professional mattress tester. I started testing mattresses in 2014. And in the last 11 and a half years or so, we've tested a little over 500 different mattresses. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Yes. Yeah. How did you get into mattress testing? What was the, what was the light bulb moment for that? Derek: totally, totally by accident. ⁓ The whole thing really started when I got married. My wife and I got married ⁓ in late May of 2014. Initially we were, thank you, thank you, initially we were sleeping on my ⁓ full size sort of old inner spring mattress that I had just carried with me from high school and college. So we were in the market very quickly for a new bed. We did kind of the whole ⁓ in-store experience, going in, laying on beds, trying stuff. We found beds we liked, but ⁓ they were very, Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Congratulations. stuff. Derek: expensive and just we were pretty frugal people and didn't have a whole lot of money to speak of. So just couldn't pull the trigger. So we ended up taking a chance on these new online brands that were just getting started this time. So we bought one sort of sight unseen. It was 600 bucks for an all foam for a king size. I was like, so great. We tried it. It was okay. Not great for us. We ended up returning it, got something new. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: And it was just, we were afraid for people that lived in there. was a whole lot of money to think of. So just got to look at the trigger. So we had to take that chance on these new all-money brands that were just getting started at this time. So we bought some of those things. was $600 for all the stuff. For a king size, so it was great. We tried it. It was a really fun time for us. got returning, got something. And the next bit we tried, was a better plan. We it a little bit longer. Derek: And the next bed we tried, it was a little bit better. We liked that. We ended up keeping it a little bit longer. And then at this point, I've tried a bunch of beds in the store. I've tried these two beds in our apartment. And just kind of as like a fun weekend hobby project, I'm like, all right, I'm going to make a website this weekend. I'm going to do a review on these two beds and compare them. I'll talk about the in-store experience, everything that we kind of went through. I just throw it out there. Just see if anybody is interested or cares at all. ⁓ And they did. The site really blew up. ⁓ We were getting a ton of questions and visits and traffic. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: And at this point I've tried as much as I can in stock, I've tried these two beds in our apartment and just kind of as like a fun weekend hobby, I'm going to make one because I'm going to be working on these two beds and pair up and talk about the in-store experience. And we kind of went for it, just throw it out there, just see if anybody had any particular cares at all. And it was like, we're getting a ton of questions, it's a turn of things, within just a few weeks, my real friend asked me to test other beds, so. Derek: Within just a few weeks, ⁓ my readers were asking me to test other beds. So we ordered another bed and then another bed and then another bed and very quickly started, you know, making a decent amount of money to the point where I was thinking, hey, this could be a thing. I could like leave my full time job, which I, which I wasn't loving at the time. so within just a few months of launching the site, initially it was doing well enough that I was able to, to leave and start my, full time career as a professional mattress tester. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Right? ⁓ I am so tickled because I love going into the mattress store and just jumping backwards onto the bed. just the. So what is your criteria for how you. Like, what was your initial criteria? What were you looking for in the perfect mattress? Because I'm sure that's evolved over the years. Yeah. Derek: Yes. Yeah. When I think back initially, I it was definitely more subjective than it is now. Now everything is sort of as objective and measurable and quantifiable as possible. But in the early days, you don't know what you want to know. So I was thinking about the things that I thought were important. So I would talk about what's the firmness like? What's the sinkage like? Is this mattress cool? Is it comfortable? Does it feel supportive? Is it good for this position, that sleeping position? So more sort of general, I think, Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Right? Derek: lay persons type of like things that you thought were important on a mattress because at 2014, 2015, I didn't have the experience. So I wrote about the things that I thought were important and tried to just provide as much context for what the bed feels like. We were testing a lot of sort of beds that were kind of exclusively sold online. So they were able to sell those beds really inexpensively, but you couldn't try them anywhere. So I really wanted to like explain what does this thing feel like? Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: God Derek: so that someone that knows, well, I want a lot of sinkage because I'm a side sleeper. No, I'm a stomach sleeper. I don't want to sink very far and I need something firmer and try to like explain the comfort dynamic, the support dynamic, the feel parameters ⁓ in really simple and easily to understand terms so that people that weren't also were in kind of my position that couldn't try the bed could then get a sense for what it feels like and why it would not be good for them. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Right. And that you were in the 2014 era that was such a golden era for online marketing and social media and building your businesses and websites. I remember starting my business around that time and it was. ⁓ for lack of a better phrase, it was a much more human to human connection than I feel like we're experiencing now. This feels very machine. But in 2014, that was such an organic experience. Those were genuine people searching the internet and looking for the information that you had to provide. That was so cool. So over the last 12 years, how has the NAPLAB grown? How have you really turned your energy? or restoring your energy into your currency. Derek: Yeah Yeah, it's a it's a lot, right? So in the earliest days, you know, like I said, everything was more subjective. And I think we just was just didn't have as much knowledge. I was coming into this as just sort of, you know, a dude that needed a mattress. And so I just tried to succinctly explain, you know, my thoughts and experiences. And and I found that, you know, those were resonating people. And so so we kept doing that ⁓ over time. I think, you know, we've seen Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Where? Mm-hmm. Derek: visitors and viewers, like, I think just want more, more professional level of review. And so we've had to, you know, consistently level up our like production equipment and photography and videography, but also the way we test and review mattresses. Even as early as sort of, you 2015, I was looking for ways to take more, you know, quantifiable and objective measurements. And over time we sort of gradually stacked and stacked and stacked and improved and improved. So. You look at where we are today, and in 2021, I've completely rebuilt our testing and scoring system to just have 10 objective and data-driven factors. We still do some subjective testing as well, but it's rigid and well-defined, like the parameters that we're looking for. So I'm making a subjective assessment, but we have seven tiers, and these are the things that we're looking for so that our reviews are always really consistent and easy to understand and digestible so that somebody can come in. They don't need to be a mattress expert. They don't have to care about every little minutia of the data, but they can see that we've done our homework, that we've done the research. It's all there if you want to look at it, but you can also just go to the of the top most thing and say, okay, this is good for these sleepers. Here's the pros and cons. Here's the firmness. Here's the score. I think this would be good for her X, Y, and Z. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Yeah. Right. So how has your team expanded over the years? Did you start off with the team? Was it you and your wife working on testing the beds and then developing the media and content for it? Or how did the team structure work out? Derek: So initially it was just myself, so I got started alone. would occasionally enlist my wife's help to move beds around or get her thoughts or hold the camera. say the camera, literally my cell phone in the corner of the room while I just single take no script my way through a video. About a year after we launched, we were doing well enough that I was able to make our first hire. So I hired my cousin straight out of college. So he came and basically we sat sort of like. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Okay. then. Derek: back to back in the little dining nook of my one bedroom apartment with my wife and I, where we would, you know, work on our master's reviews and comparison pages and things that we thought people would like. And so I taught him as kind of as much as I could about, you know, my process and what we're trying to do. About a year and a half after that, I hired my sister who came in to just help run reviews and she has a background in like design. So she was able to kind of help level up our branding and she'd already been kind of working behind the scenes kind of in a contractor role on some of those things, but came on more formally. I was always just helping to like deal with the huge number of emails we were getting every day. People would email us, you know, wanting help buying a bed. And then we would try to answer all of those. But at one point that hit like a 40 hour a week job. And so between my cousin and my sister and myself, we were able to sort of, you know, divide it up. But it was, it was a lot. And Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Mm-hmm. Really? Derek: Our growth since then has kind of been the same thing. Kind of every year, year and a half or so, we've been able to hire a new person to kind of do different things. So I have sort of built sort of systems and processes for each of these things from testing and reviews to content to video to photography to social media to outreach, all these different things. And I've hired basically my friends and family to come in and take one of those little pieces away and sort of be able to run it and give it their full attention. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Yeah. Derek: We have a six person full time team and then we have two ⁓ wonderful contractors in the Philippines that do all of our video editing. So between sort of the eight of us, we can get everything done that we need each week and maintain our level of sort of quality and excellence in everything we do. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: That is so cool. Like what inspires me the most, like I said, is that this is something so accessible. You know what I mean? Like this, and I mean that with the most like honor because we took something, you took something that was very accessible and you built something that was very needed in the market. One, because Online stores needed your integrity. They needed your visibility. They needed your experience to help drive sales. But then you were able to streamline that and create your own business just from being that communication bridge. So I just, think that is so fricking cool because it should inspire people. know a lot of people who approach me as an entrepreneur and are like, ⁓ well you're creative or, you can get this person invented something. And I'm like, What are you excellent at in your everyday life? You know, what could you talk about forever? You know, like, and listen, my cat is telling you my favorite topic. I could talk about cats all day. You know, will I hopefully have a job as a cat worker? If you're listening to the show, yes, but. Derek: Yeah, absolutely. I know that I know the guy that runs cats.com so if you ever wanted to work for cats.com I could connect you. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: I'm listening. I'm such a manifester. So whatever the universe, I think so. I have to check it out. But yeah, just finding the things in your life that bring you joy. And that way, do you feel like you have to, does it feel like work to you? Derek: It's a cool site. ⁓ no, not at all. It's, it's never really felt like work. ⁓ it just, it of felt like I was just like cheating my way. I guess this shouldn't work as well as it's doing. the floor is going to fall out at any moment. I've been, I've been telling myself that for, you know, 11 years now that this just can't continue. you know, we've been able to find stability and sort of, you know, strength and a good foundation amidst sort of all of the craziness of, know, sort of running this type of company. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Hehehehehe Mm-hmm. Yeah! Derek: ⁓ but yeah, it really doesn't feel like work. Also, I've, you know, I've hired my friends and my family, you know, my cousin worked with me for many years. My sister still works with me. My aunt works with me. And so I think when, when you get to work with people that you like and love, it, ⁓ it really makes it easy. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Bye. Exactly! That makes a complete difference in how you show up, why you show up, the product, the end product, when everybody is loved within and then they enjoy what they're doing too. makes me, let me have a great time, darling, jeez. So, but it makes for a total different day of work. The hours might be long, but they're filled with joy. Derek: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We still work in probably close to 40 hours a week, but it doesn't feel like that. We're having fun. Last week we got to shoot a big sort parody video that we're hoping will go viral. And so we had the whole team out here doing costumes with a full day of production and filming. so, ⁓ yeah, it's not always quite that fun. even in the quote unquote more boring stuff where we're just testing and looking at data, it's still cool. I'd rather be working with my group of friends and family, getting to ⁓ work from home than having to go and work for somebody else. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Right? So what has been one of the more fun moments outside of this cool parody that I'm looking forward to? ⁓ What have been some of the fun moments in the Nap Lab business growth? What's been some of your cooler moments? Derek: You know, one of the most sort of cool things is the thing that I didn't even know existed and I guess probably most of your viewers don't. ⁓ our visits to sort of mattress trade shows or like conferences. So there's, ⁓ there's a two, two big conferences in the U S. ⁓ I've been to sort of one sort of near me in Vegas. ⁓ and it's just like a nine story building. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: I can only imagine. Derek: where every floor is essentially a mall. You walk around and you've got storefronts for all these mattress brands and material suppliers and bed frames and every sort of sleep tech, sleep mattress accessory. Anything you could conceive as a product is in this building. So that's really cool to be able to walk around there, experience all these new products, meet people in the industry. It's very cool. It's a very surreal experience because you're just surrounded by 10,000 other Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: ⁓ I love it. Derek: know, mattress nerds just like we are. But it's very fun. It's very fun. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Right? I'm familiar with trade shows from being in the cosmetology industry. The beauty hair shows where they construct the planes out of hair and all of that kind of stuff. I used to work in those for a few years and the energy and just the sheer amount of people all, like you said, on the same wavelength, all focused on the same thing, hair. Derek: Yes. Yeah. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: It is three days of just chaos, but it is one of my favorite brands of chaos for sure, for sure. So like, what is your number one mattress recommendation? And then I have another controversial question for you. Okay. Derek: Yeah. All right. ⁓ yeah, recommendations are tough, I'll say the best one that we've tested by score is a mattress called Wink Bed. It's a bed that is predominantly sold online. They do have a few stores here and there now, but mostly it's an online first brand. But because of that, they're able to hit a really compelling price point. The bed is $1,800 for a queen, but if it was sold in store, that's easily like $3,000 $4,000. So it's a really high-performance bed sold at a very fair price. And it's the number one bed that we've tested by score. ⁓ Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: $3,000, yeah. Derek: All that said, I don't think it's best for necessarily everybody. My theory on this has kind of evolved. In 2014, 2015, I did sort of a view that like, yeah, this is like the bed, everyone should get this. I don't really think that anymore. I think it's really about sort of like what's best for you, what's best for me. Each individual sleeper is a little bit different. While Winkbed is like great for a lot of people, if you prefer more hug and contour, maybe not. If you want something super firm, maybe not. If you want all in the natural, maybe not. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Okay. Derek: Yeah, I'd rather think about like your specific needs and preferences. And then I think trying to match that to sort of the best high performance mattress that's within ⁓ your sort of preferences and parameters. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Got you, got you. Yes, WinkBed. Okay, I'm gonna have to check that out. Okay, so. Social media, specifically Twitter, and the theory that mattress firm is actually a drug firm. Derek: Yes. No, I've heard this theory though and yeah. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: It is? No, not yet. I'm joking. ⁓ Because there are there are always a cluster of mattress firms. They always seem to not have much traffic. They're all you know what I mean? They're always in really suspicious zones. What is what is your input as an expert in the mattress industry? Derek: Yes. Yes. For sure, is weird. It does not make sense to me. Now, their markups and margins are insane. I have no doubt they could have multiple successful stores in a city. ⁓ But last time I looked, just my location here in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Arizona area, there are like a dozen mattress firms within like 10 minutes of me. That... Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Hahaha! Derek: does not make sense to me. Every time you go in, nobody's in there. You might have like a handful of people throughout the day. So I don't understand it. Are all the conspiracy theories about what they're actually up to true? I don't know. But I don't understand how they can exist at the scale they exist at. It makes no sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Okay. at the sheer scale, right? And so my theory and mattress firm, listen, I don't have no beef with you. I have a really nice Amazon mattress. I have no more money. Let me preface it with that. But so I saw another theory that talked about when businesses are ⁓ like when they're cleaners, like cleaner businesses, they clean the money that they will, that the loss Derek: Mm-hmm. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: helps to write off money invested but not necessarily used. So it's still a way to, there's still like a loophole for money cleaning even if there's not a big large amount of foot traffic or purchase. I don't know. I don't know. Derek: Interesting, yeah. Yeah, I've heard similar theories as well. I don't know. It would seem wild to me that a company of that size and scale would be involved in something like that, but also it wouldn't be the first time, you know. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: you So are they really, right. ⁓ Are they really populated at the, are they heavily populated at the trade shows? Like, do they have like a strong business presence there? Derek: I'm sure they do. don't recall ever seeing them. just, yeah, never made, I wouldn't really go into like individual mattress retailers. I want to talk to like the brands. I don't care about what mattress firm is doing because they're just. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But you know, like with bigger brands, want to let, even if you don't go and talk to them, they want to let everybody know that they're there. They'll try to buy the most space, you know, and have the most visibility and lights and snacks and girls and all of that stuff. So, huh. I feel like one day we're going to get an email from like Netflix to participate in their documentary about mattress firms. So I do look forward to it. Derek: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That would be the most surreal. If I ever get invited for a Netflix documentary, that would be the, ⁓ I've peaked in my career. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: But you know what, your brand is so well established and it's such a necessity, especially with us being very, like you're basically one of like the predecessors of like a TikTok influencer. You know what I mean? Like before the phrase influencer, you really developed an influencer, a legitimate influencer business, you know? Like you've provided. essential influence and in a very fun digestible brand like yeah it would be it's not without is not outside of your ⁓ outside of your stratosphere for that to be available to you Derek: I'm glad to use the word fun to describe our brand. Sometimes I think we must be a little boring to lot of people because we're all data and numbers and mattresses are inherently kind of like a boring product. Nobody's like excited. It's not like technology or the... Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: But even looking at, but looking at your, your, just your background and the logos and the color schemes, and even you have the, the chemistry bottles and all of that up at the top. I, I, one, I am obsessed with business and I'm on the very creative side of it where I enjoy how they presented and the presentation is hilarious. Could you scoot the mic over? Can I see who's taking a nap on your shirt? Derek: ⁓ yes, it's a... Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: It's a poodle! Derek: It is a poodle. It's my dog. She's a 14 year old mini poodle named Tibbers, so. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: ⁓ okay. ⁓ hey, Tibbers, shout out to Tibbers, cause Tibbers is keeping the brand fun. Like you've incorporated, I can tell that you've incorporated a lot of fun energy into your brand. That translates very easily. So yes, it is super data rich, but y'all have still mastered, cause even you have to have a sense of dry humor to enjoy it. You know, but I think you all have mastered it for sure. Derek: Yeah, that's it. All that's. Yeah. That's very kind of you. Thank you. Yeah, it's a, it's one of those things, you know, it's, you gotta work for, you know, so many years of your life, we might as well make it as fun as we can. So we're, serious about what we do, but you know, we also have goofy cartoons, loss taking a nap and, you know, we just try and have fun with it and, yeah. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Yeah! But I think that's what maintains the human element of it. That's the part that can't be duplicated is that human element of it, having that level of humor and that is data rich, you know what I mean? Cause someone could have taken it and made it super sciencey and that would have made it out of touch, you know, made it, there had to be a segue into why we could connect and humor is the best way to do that. So no, you got it going on. Y'all got to figure it out. You really do. Derek: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. You're very kind. Thank you very much. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Kudos to the NAP Lab crew. Yes, for sure. This is awesome. How can we learn more about the NAP Lab? Derek: So the easiest way is to just visit us over at the naplab.com. That's N-A-P-L-A-B.com. There we have our reviews, comparisons, best of guides, educational stuff, and a whole lot more. We also have our mattress finder quiz. Just hit that in the top menu. You answer a few questions about your needs, preferences, and budget. That goes straight to me or a member of my team. We look at everything that you've said, your needs, your preferences, all the things that you want, and then send you back the single best mattress that we think works best for you all within 24 hours. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: I love it. Thank you so much for joining me. This has been such a kind, fun interview. And you know what? I want everyone to listen to this interview and know that your million dollar business is in your home. It's right in front of you and do the things that you enjoy and take some of your problems and find bigger, there are bigger solutions to some of our problems. So thank you so much for joining us, Derek. I have. thoroughly enjoyed learning more about the NAPLAB and I will absolutely take my quiz so that I know what my best bet, my next bet is gonna be. Derek: Sounds awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much for having me. This has been a fun one. So thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate it. Alexis Williams BlushBizMGMT: Absolutely, so to listen to this episode and all the rest of the episodes we are on YouTube and Spotify Apple podcasts and Amazon so check us out wherever you wherever you listen to your spot your podcast and Remember your energy is your currency so make the best of it