Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / How to Live By Design Not Default

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How to Live By Design Not Default · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
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• 1:03
  Hey, listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome back to another episode of mortgage marketing radio.
• 1:14
  If you're new here, we appreciate you tuning in.
• 1:17
  If you've not yet heard, we have a private community on Facebook for you, the podcast
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  listener, where you can go deeper, right?
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  Get access to more of what I'm doing in their content, special happenings over there,
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  uploading different files and resources you can use.
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  And occasionally, I'll go live, I'll do it, ask me anything.
• 1:38
  And we can continue the conversation.
• 1:39
  So if you'd like to do that, you can go to Facebook, right, and search for mortgage marketing
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  radio.
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  Join the group.
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  I'd love to have you in there.
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  Please make sure you answer the questions before you come in because we want to make
• 1:49
  sure the group is for the right people, no sales bitches, not growing, not political.
• 1:57
  All right.
• 1:59
  So this week, I'm bringing on a special guest, I've been a fan of this gentleman for some
• 2:04
  time and been watching him from afar and really enjoying how he's showing up in this
• 2:11
  space of, you know, the mortgage community, which is one that I feel protective of if
• 2:19
  you will.
• 2:21
  And what I can now say confidently about Roland is that his part is in the right place.
• 2:29
  Who is Roland Cochran?
• 2:30
  Well, you're going to hear him tell his own story, but not just a coach, but, you know, in
• 2:35
  the traditional sense.
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  But one that I feel confident in bringing to you because of his unique and different
• 2:42
  approach, what do I mean?
• 2:46
  What I mean is is so Roland has an interesting story and background is that at a very young
• 2:52
  age, he was able to be successful quick and out of the gates and do quite well financially
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  ran a number of different physical therapy clinics and then wound up selling, selling
• 3:03
  the bulk of those off.
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  And you know, if you follow Roland on social media and all you'll see and traveling all
• 3:09
  over the world for a month at a time, for instance, he was in Greece recently and now he's
• 3:13
  in Sedona, Arizona.
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  If you're listening to this, Roland, I'm jealous.
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  No, I'm just kidding.
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  But here's the other thing that I found very interesting about Roland is this is not your
• 3:22
  usual conversation.
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  This isn't your usual, hey, how do you, you know, successful mortgage originator conversation.
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  I'm a big believer in mindset, I'm a big believer in getting clear on your value, right?
• 3:34
  And by value, I don't mean it's like, oh, your value proposition as a mortgage professional,
• 3:37
  but your value as a human being, right?
• 3:41
  Your value to your partners, your colleagues, your family, your community.
• 3:47
  And Roland and I have a conversation that you hopefully will find refreshing, but you
• 3:53
  know, we're talking about living in your divine design, if you will, living in design as
• 4:00
  he calls it.
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  And I think what happens is that when you really get clear on living your design, living
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  like, you know, engaged in the activities in space and place that you are built, divinely
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  built, created to serve, interestingly enough, you wind up being able to contribute and
• 4:18
  serve at a higher level, you wind up actually not burnt out and having more energy, you wind
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  up being able to make a difference in an impact, you wind up being able to lead people
• 4:30
  and still men.
• 4:34
  And so I love that part of our conversation, but I also love that what Ryan can do is help
• 4:39
  you as a mortgage professional build systems to remove yourself from the day-to-day operations
• 4:45
  if you are so interested in that.
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  And so Ryan, Roland had told me that, you know, he's for, if anybody, he serves a special
• 4:55
  client.
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  And that special client is somebody who's in a place where, you know, financially, they're
• 5:00
  doing well.
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  And what they realize is that they want to live a life with a different kind of commitment.
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  And one that allows them the freedom to experience and live their divine design and not feel
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  stressed out, not be energy depleted by any purpose.
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  But most importantly, I have the systems and process and people, right, to support you
• 5:27
  living that divine design.
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  So I hope you like this episode.
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  Links to Roland's web page, you put up just for us listeners are in the show notes.
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  As a matter of fact, I'll tell you what that is right now.
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  You can go to Roland, hawkren.com if you want to learn more.
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  Roland, hawkren.com, forward slash mortgage, marketing, radio.
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  Offer their due.
• 5:53
  Let's get into this week's show.
• 5:56
  Ryan, hawkren.
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  Welcome to the show.
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  How are you?
• 5:59
  Good afternoon, buddy.
• 6:00
  I know.
• 6:01
  Seeing you, seeing you all be seeing you twice this month, I went from, I went from virtually
• 6:04
  knowing you to, to seeing you like more than my friends and family.
• 6:09
  Right.
• 6:10
  Right.
• 6:11
  Yeah.
• 6:12
  And so I'm going to see you at the upcoming, um, uh, big night.
• 6:15
  Is that it?
• 6:16
  No fuse, fuse.
• 6:17
  Yep.
• 6:18
  Everybody's doing this light and the fuse and that strike.
• 6:21
  Right.
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  It's one of those kind of things.
• 6:24
  Okay.
• 6:25
  So for, um, why don't you give your version of like for people who don't know about you,
• 6:31
  how would you tell somebody meeting you for the first time, you know, you know, that
• 6:35
  exercise very well.
• 6:36
  Why don't you give us the quick breakdown on that.
• 6:39
  So my, you know, I, I think people look at me and they assume that my story is very
• 6:45
  different than everybody else's, right, because my, you know, my life, it does look like
• 6:49
  a, it does look like a different life for sure with the, with the, with the travel and
• 6:52
  the stuff that I'm doing, especially given the age that I have and then the stuff that
• 6:55
  I've been through, right.
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  It's like you would assume that, you know, something either really, really good happened
• 7:00
  to me or something really, really bad happened to me, right?
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  And it's, and it's really not either of those, but it's a, it's, it's still an important
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  story.
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  And it's the same story that all of us have.
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  It's a, it's a story of being born into the world and wanting to figure it out, right?
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  And, and doing whatever it takes to do that given the resources they have available to
• 7:20
  you, which is, you know, for when we're younger, not a lot.
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  And so you go, you, you start by looking outside of yourself.
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  I had other, better people, other people you admire.
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  And you try to fulfill these desires and motives that you have, even though you don't
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  know how, right?
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  I mean, you're, you're three, four, five, six years old.
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  And so it starts then.
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  And, and, you know, I need to present myself this way.
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  I need to, I mean, you start coming up with this plan, this plan to become and fulfill
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  these, these desires that you have.
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  The unfortunate part is it gets corrupted as you get older, right?
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  It's, it's, you start building upon those stories and they, they start becoming kind
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  of less true, right?
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  Oh, I, I, I need to take Fridays off and join this country club and have a, a house
• 8:05
  with a doc because that guy's respected.
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  And everyone else around the, that, that same lake is respected, right?
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  So that's how I'm going to achieve respect.
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  And so that comes with everything, right?
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  Now I need to have some sort of wealth.
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  I need to, my life needs a certain way.
• 8:19
  I need to probably be in some sort of ownership position of, of some kind, right, owning
• 8:24
  your own, your own business or at least being in control of your income and time.
• 8:28
  So anyways, the end result is, you know, we, we build this life and we become a somebody.
• 8:37
  And it ends up owning you to some degree, right?
• 8:39
  You, you arrive and you realize I'm, I'm not a somebody, I'm me.
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  And I'm, your, your life is more so a, a puzzle of everyone around you.
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  Now, on visually, you look successful, right?
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  And everyone assumes that you're fulfilled.
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  But inside you don't feel successful, you don't feel fulfilled.
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  You know, why is that?
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  So that's, that's my story is, okay, I did everything right.
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  And everyone around me is telling me how fortunate I am, how proud of me they are.
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  And so now in this corner of it, well, you know, no one's asking me, right?
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  Am I, do I feel fortunate?
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  Do I, do I feel proud?
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  You know, and the answer was no.
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  But I was too embarrassed, Jeff, to go on the record, admitting that, you know, I, that
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  I didn't feel fulfilled, that I would, that I hadn't arrived yet.
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  It was, it was embarrassing.
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  I didn't want to admit it to people because they're all telling me that I, that I should
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  be happy.
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  And I should be, you know, appreciate where I'm at and all these things.
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  So I started thinking that I was broken, right?
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  That something was wrong with me, right?
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  And, and you hear the mantras of, you know, always hungry, never satisfied, right?
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  You know, work, work, work, work, work.
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  And unfortunately, that's like the solution to this emptiness problem is, oh, you're not
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  working hard enough.
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  Your business isn't big enough.
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  You need to go to the next level or 10X or whatever it is.
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  So unfortunately, here's these, here's these, these, we'll call them kids, because I think
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  we're all kind of kids.
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  Here's these kids, 30, 40-year-old kids who are like, hey, come on, I did everything.
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  Where's my prize?
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  Like, am I supposed to feel something, supposed to be respect and supposed to be significant?
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  And then their messaging is go work, right?
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  Work harder, 10X.
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  And it basically just makes the problem even worse, because at least you had some grip of
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  reality.
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  And then by the time you've committed to that whole way of being, I mean, you're just,
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  Jeff, you're just, I mean, it's, you're even further away.
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  From where you are.
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  So it's, it's, it's my story, but I think some variation of that is a lot of us.
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  It's this, we kind of, we, we know what we want initially, and we're trying to get there.
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  And then it gets so muddied in the process that we just forget how we're designed and who
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  we were supposed to be.
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  And we get caught up in this state of hypnosis of more things, more money.
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  And it's, um, and it's not fulfilling and we, and we wonder why, but what I just explained
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  you is why, because you were designed to fulfill this and you turned it into a game that
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  it wasn't.
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  So, um, a game that you can, a game that you can never win.
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  And it's, yeah, well, it's, it's, well, I would even word it differently.
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  A game full of wins that don't fulfill you, but you still get the boat and you're victorious
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  and you can show everybody how, how that you drive a $250,000 boat.
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  But then, you know, that, you know, also, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  It's not, it's, you weren't designed to buy a boat and flex it on Instagram.
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  You were designed to create some sort of change, you know, change this young lady, change
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  this young man.
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  I mean, that's, that's what you were supposed to do is exercise it, right?
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  That we were designed to serve others.
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  You know, it's, I like where this is going, because my, my new business is the one that
• 11:46
  I just launched is, is, is called in design.
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  So what it is.
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  So it's, it's, it's a process to honor your design now, not just for fulfillment, but
• 11:54
  I think everybody, you know, you and I just went to amplify me.
• 11:57
  What a great example of a, not just Renee, but a room full of people working towards honoring
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  their design.
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  And it just, it not only makes you happy, I mean, you, you, you get rich doing it.
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  It's just a nice byproduct.
• 12:07
  People want to give you money to inspire them, just how it works.
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  So yes, I believe we were designed with certain motives and certain desires.
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  And I think it's different from every single person.
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  And I think the core five elements are the same.
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  I think we all have those in common, right?
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  You know, safety, love, connection, belonging, esteem, recognition, and then self-actualization.
• 12:33
  I think we all want those same thing.
• 12:35
  Now you're, are, but our take on them is different.
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  How we, how we see them and how, what our responsibility is and what other people's
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  responsibility are, it is different.
• 12:43
  And I think that's why you will, I don't want to say conflicts like a, a, a, a constant,
• 12:50
  because I don't mean that, I just, but differences are.
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  And so if we could just reframe these differences and, and appreciate them and then see what
• 12:59
  we don't know and learn more about our design, maybe this person understands something about
• 13:03
  your design that you don't know from their little way of seeing it.
• 13:08
  And so by appreciating and honoring their differences, it actually helps you actually.
• 13:11
  So yeah, it's, I wouldn't say our purpose is to help others, but it kind of is, right?
• 13:15
  It's, I would say our purpose is to live in our design.
• 13:18
  As, but, and, and, and the design itself will serve others, right?
• 13:22
  Look at it, right?
• 13:23
  As you achieve safety, as you achieve love, connection belonging, as you seek recognition
• 13:27
  and respect and respect others and self-actualize, you'll, you'll impact the world in whatever
• 13:32
  way that is.
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  All right.
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  So there's a lot in there for going there.
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  I want to kind of, part mentalize and kind of unpack a little bit of the context for why
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  you just went through what you did for those that aren't familiar with your background.
• 13:46
  Prior to choosing to live your design in the mortgage space and serving mortgage professionals
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  and we can, we're going to talk about that.
• 13:55
  But first, let's, let's go back to, I don't know how you describe it your life before
• 13:59
  this or like, give us the specifics because I know, I don't know a lot.
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  I know some rough edges.
• 14:05
  So you're going to have to correct me.
• 14:07
  All I know in generalities is obviously, you know, successful at a young age, you owned
• 14:12
  a several or a collection or a franchise of, is it, was it physical therapy centers?
• 14:17
  Yes.
• 14:18
  Yes, yes.
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  Give us the context on that.
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  Tell us about that little business journey.
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  So just like loan officers, you know, the career chooses you, right?
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  And so, and I don't think this is unique, I think there's a lot of business professionals.
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  We, we want to help.
• 14:33
  We want to serve.
• 14:34
  We want to, we want to use our skills at the highest, at the highest way we can use them.
• 14:38
  And when you're young or early in your career, you don't really know what those are.
• 14:42
  And so usually your career chooses you.
• 14:44
  So the same thing that happened with loan officers, I was no more a doctor, no loan officers
• 14:48
  or loan officers.
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  It's just, it's a, you see it, you get excited.
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  It's like, cool, I could do that.
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  I could make money doing it.
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  And I could eventually see how this could lead to financial and time freedom.
• 14:58
  So same story for me, right?
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  I, I, I don't know how much of it was like my calling, but it was like, I could wait until
• 15:04
  I'm like 30, 40, 50, 60 years old for my calling or just diving to this right now because
• 15:09
  I know I'll succeed at it.
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  And I think loan officers need to see the same way.
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  It's like, oh, yeah, I could do that and I'd be good at it, right?
• 15:15
  So went down that road, which I wish it was as short as becoming a loan officer.
• 15:21
  It was a, you know, here I am eight years later, spent 387,000 dollars and eight years
• 15:27
  of my life on this, this career.
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  And man, I'll tell you what, I walked across the stage and I meet my first reaction
• 15:34
  was, what did I just do?
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  Right?
• 15:37
  And it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't regret.
• 15:39
  It was more so, I don't understand, spent 387 walked across the stage.
• 15:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:44
  So I graduated, right?
• 15:45
  Graduated.
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  They throw the little Harry Potter hood on me and say, oh, wow, we're so proud of you.
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  You're, you've been such a good boy.
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  Every part.
• 15:54
  Right.
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  And I just like, man, what did I just do?
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  And again, I could say it wasn't regret.
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  It was more so the gravity of, the gravity of, you know, it's kind of, I guess giving
• 16:08
  away a little bit of your individuality to a construct.
• 16:12
  Right?
• 16:13
  And it's so it's like, okay, wow, like that, that's a whole, I never even thought about
• 16:17
  it until the hood was on because now I'm like, okay, cool, I'm licensed.
• 16:20
  I can actually actually do this job now.
• 16:22
  What did you hear it degree in?
• 16:24
  It was a doctor of physical therapy.
• 16:25
  Yeah.
• 16:26
  So I, so my goal was to at the time was, yeah, sports medicine, orthopedics, you know,
• 16:31
  I wanted to work with work, not athletes, but adult athletes, right?
• 16:34
  Reacon Warriors.
• 16:35
  And so that's what I did.
• 16:37
  So I, I knowing that I went all in.
• 16:40
  I mean, I went, I started going to the conferences when I was 19.
• 16:43
  So when I didn't graduate until I was 28, right?
• 16:45
  So I had almost 10 years of going to these conferences.
• 16:48
  I knew everyone, Jeff, you know, the equivalent of like the mortgage space, you know, I knew
• 16:54
  all the guys in that space, everybody.
• 16:56
  I mean, these guys were, you know, they, they, they print money, right?
• 17:00
  These guys are just, they've been doing it for so long and so they invited me to their
• 17:02
  homes, taught me everything.
• 17:04
  So as you can imagine, when I opened my businesses, they opened quick, right?
• 17:08
  It was, I was profitable, broke even a month through and then profitable a month for.
• 17:12
  And, you know, because from day one, rather than just doing the thing, I ran it like a business.
• 17:20
  Oh, wow.
• 17:21
  So by the way, quick distinction there, right?
• 17:24
  Instead of just doing the thing, being the practitioner, being a sales, you know, keep
• 17:28
  in mind our audience, mostly the own officers, real estate, but that's also the trap people
• 17:33
  fall into is like on the call this morning earlier, I was talking about intention, like
• 17:38
  what's your intention?
• 17:39
  You clearly started out with a very clear intention that you were going to, right, be a business
• 17:44
  owner.
• 17:45
  Right.
• 17:46
  I wanted, I wanted the only thing I knew for sure was I wanted to travel.
• 17:51
  I wanted to see the world and the world's big and you need time and you need time to
• 17:55
  do it.
• 17:56
  That's all I knew for sure.
• 17:57
  I didn't know all the other details I didn't know, but I knew I needed a business that made
• 18:00
  me money passively and then I needed to be able to not be there.
• 18:04
  And so, yeah, from day one, that was the goal.
• 18:07
  I wasn't, it wasn't, oh, I can't wait to get to this number.
• 18:11
  I had no number in mind.
• 18:12
  It was, I need to build a machine.
• 18:13
  Yeah, but hold on a second, wasn't, we talked about like, you know, living your design
• 18:19
  was your design, though, to, there was a passion or an interest around serving people
• 18:25
  with that, you know, physical therapy?
• 18:27
  You know, it's a great question.
• 18:29
  I love that you went there because I do, I do think that's a barrier for a lot of people.
• 18:34
  And it was for me too, right?
• 18:35
  You always want to do the right thing.
• 18:38
  All of us, like, oh, what's the, and I think it holds us back sometimes, it's like, oh,
• 18:41
  like, is that right?
• 18:43
  And then we second guest ourselves, Jeff, I've been, and you've been through this.
• 18:46
  I mean, if there's anything I've learned from coaching and being coached, you just got
• 18:51
  whatever you know for sure at the time, you just got to go for it, right?
• 18:54
  That's why I found myself in, as a physical therapist, that's why I found myself, you know,
• 18:59
  I didn't know if I wanted to be a business owner.
• 19:01
  It wasn't, all I knew for sure was I can do this.
• 19:04
  I know how to make money doing this.
• 19:05
  I've learned how to make money doing this.
• 19:07
  And I want to travel and have basically a business that acts as an ATM, right?
• 19:10
  So you just got to go with what you know for sure at the time.
• 19:13
  If you always wait for, like, your design, you'll be waiting a long time because I don't
• 19:19
  think you're designed something you can learn.
• 19:21
  I think you have to be alive to discover it on the journey.
• 19:24
  Well, exactly.
• 19:26
  It's why I, it's why I invented the InDesign formula.
• 19:30
  It's why I'm doing this with people because I did.
• 19:33
  There is, you know, will you ever discover it for sure and know what it is and be able
• 19:37
  to tell everybody?
• 19:38
  I don't think it works that way.
• 19:40
  There is a formula to embrace it and figure it out faster and be acting in a way where
• 19:47
  you're listening to it and you're more aware.
• 19:49
  So it'll happen rather than arriving when you're in your late 70s.
• 19:52
  You can start being in design a little bit earlier or at least closer to it.
• 19:57
  However, though, you have always, I don't know how to describe this, but clearly your
• 20:02
  person who is physically fit takes care of themselves.
• 20:05
  Was that always an aspect of your life?
• 20:09
  No.
• 20:10
  I was horrible at all sports.
• 20:13
  I had like two years where I started, I mean, this is how it happened, right?
• 20:16
  I had two years where I started playing video games too much.
• 20:19
  My mom saw it happening and she, and no sports at all because I'm just bad at it, I'm
• 20:24
  not, we're not coordinated family.
• 20:26
  And she didn't like that and so she was like, and I was, I think it was 14 or 15.
• 20:31
  It has a summer, summer was 2015 and my mom was like, hey, you should, you should
• 20:35
  come to the gym.
• 20:36
  You know, the gym and they have that free personal training session where they try to
• 20:38
  sell you.
• 20:39
  So it's like, oh, you come and gym and hang out with this personal trainer and the guy
• 20:41
  was worthless.
• 20:42
  But I'll tell you what, I got the pump or anybody that works out, you guys know what I'm
• 20:45
  talking about.
• 20:46
  And I'll tell you what, man, after that, that way the rest was history after that.
• 20:52
  It just, it felt so good.
• 20:53
  And so yeah, I added it into my, and I had other causes.
• 20:55
  My dad, my dad died probably five years ago and he, you know, just didn't, that wasn't
• 21:03
  part of his life.
• 21:04
  And he always kind of talked about how he wished that it was.
• 21:07
  And so I think that stuck with me as a kid too was, you know, make, make that a priority
• 21:12
  and, and, and try and create a, a system around maintaining that no matter how busy life
• 21:17
  gets.
• 21:18
  Mmm.
• 21:19
  That was such a good point.
• 21:20
  Yeah, my dad passed when I was 35.
• 21:22
  So that was 30 years ago.
• 21:25
  And yeah, definitely didn't put health as a priority.
• 21:27
  And so there's a lot, I think there's, yeah, and then of course you see what's happening
• 21:31
  with COVID, unfortunately, and, you know, and who tends to be at a higher risk for that
• 21:36
  in most of the cases.
• 21:37
  And so that's been another, for me, a reaffirmation of the importance of placing a priority
• 21:44
  on health and well-being, which is kind of what we're kind of talking about here as well.
• 21:48
  Not just physically, but right, but mentally and emotionally too.
• 21:51
  All of it, right?
• 21:52
  I mean, if you, if you think about it, and that's a cool thing.
• 21:55
  If you, and I think a lot of high level entrepreneurs who are at, you know, everyone's always talking
• 21:59
  about the next level.
• 22:00
  To me, the next level is self mastery.
• 22:03
  That's what it is.
• 22:04
  Everyone, they want it to be click funnels and some weird thing.
• 22:06
  It's, it's just not.
• 22:07
  The next level is, you, you've understood business is now, you know how to make money.
• 22:12
  That's not your struggle anymore.
• 22:13
  Now it's like, okay, how do I use my skill set and how do I be happy and impact the world?
• 22:18
  It's, it's a whole different and make money, right?
• 22:21
  So it's like, how do I do all of those things?
• 22:22
  You start to see it differently.
• 22:23
  That's the next level, right?
• 22:24
  Rather than, I mean, blindly making money, you know, that's not that hard.
• 22:27
  You either just work or do the things, but I mean that, that next level is, how do I?
• 22:34
  Here's how I word it.
• 22:36
  Rather than looking for ways to use time, how do I let time use me?
• 22:41
  Guy, how do I let time use me?
• 22:44
  Can you explain yourself?
• 22:46
  So when you're, so back to the original story, the beginning of this podcast, right?
• 22:52
  That, that unexplained desire for more.
• 22:55
  Even though you have a lot and you're starting getting a lot and you're not your
• 22:58
  trajectory where, yeah, you know, 20 years from now, you'll have double or triple what
• 23:01
  you already had.
• 23:03
  And I promise you then, if you don't do anything different, you'll still have that desire
• 23:08
  for more.
• 23:09
  It's a constant, I believe.
• 23:10
  I believe it's the one constant.
• 23:12
  Now what needs to change is your relationship with that desire for more because it's not
• 23:18
  what you think.
• 23:19
  It's not more things.
• 23:20
  It's not more doing.
• 23:21
  It's not more accolades.
• 23:22
  It's not more achievements.
• 23:25
  You want to be more, right?
• 23:28
  But within the context of growing up in the world, in how everyone's design is different,
• 23:35
  there's not a roadmap for that.
• 23:36
  So when we look around, being more isn't, isn't easy.
• 23:40
  There's no roadmap for that.
• 23:41
  No one teaches you.
• 23:42
  So it's like, okay, well, I must need a bigger house.
• 23:44
  I must need to experience more vacations, things like this and the desires to be more.
• 23:52
  So how did I discover this?
• 23:53
  And this is not that long ago.
• 23:54
  It was like last two years, you know, as you know, I sold my house and started traveling
• 23:58
  full time at a couple of suitcases.
• 24:00
  And, you know, I had all the money, right?
• 24:04
  So I was free of money.
• 24:05
  I was free of time.
• 24:06
  And then I thought, oh, I'm going to go on vacation.
• 24:08
  I'll be happy now because I'll be at Greece for three months, Italy for three months.
• 24:12
  I just move every three months.
• 24:13
  Well, I was still rolling.
• 24:16
  And I still had the thoughts that I had before and I still had that desire for more.
• 24:21
  With you.
• 24:22
  Yeah.
• 24:23
  Yeah.
• 24:24
  The desire for more follows you.
• 24:25
  And so that's when I realized and, you know, I started doing cooler, cooler, cooler stuff.
• 24:29
  And nothing, none of it was good enough.
• 24:32
  And I thought I wasn't good enough, right?
• 24:34
  That's the perception.
• 24:35
  And in some areas, I wasn't.
• 24:37
  But here's what, here's what that feeling actually is, Jeff.
• 24:40
  The constant desire for more is your divine design telling you to come back to it.
• 24:48
  Yes, you are, you know, be bored of that.
• 24:53
  You're supposed to be.
• 24:54
  It's time to move on, right?
• 24:55
  It's time to elevate you.
• 24:56
  You know, you're not the same person you were now.
• 24:58
  Stop acting like you're poor.
• 25:00
  What do you mean, though?
• 25:01
  You just said, you wanting more divine design to come back and honor that.
• 25:09
  Right.
• 25:10
  So think about it.
• 25:12
  Yeah.
• 25:13
  Are you saying we should honor the desire to do more or is the real lesson not bad at something else?
• 25:21
  Great question.
• 25:23
  I'll answer it this way with the original question that I didn't answer of letting time use you.
• 25:28
  Because it's basically the answer that you're to the question you're asking as well.
• 25:34
  When you're thinking about emotions, they're always divine.
• 25:41
  That's the cool thing about emotions, right?
• 25:42
  And there's very few things in the world, everything's divine, but there's very few things
• 25:46
  that you can see and grasp in the moment, in the present moment that are divine and emotions
• 25:52
  are one of those gifts.
• 25:53
  You'll feel it and the more aware of it, it is divine.
• 25:55
  It's telling you something.
• 25:56
  Now, you can manipulate that desire into whatever you want, but that's man made.
• 26:02
  That's not divine, right?
• 26:04
  So you can, you can man make this desire and say, oh, I, I need a, I need a new car.
• 26:10
  But that's not what the desire is, this, this longing for more is saying something different.
• 26:15
  It's saying that there is more for you out there, but it's not, it's not the new BMW.
• 26:21
  It's, it's, it's being more, it's that divine design just calling you back to it.
• 26:25
  So it's like that thing that we think is tormenting us is actually the greatest gift.
• 26:29
  It's like, you know, it's, I, I thought I was suffering for all these years, Jeff, and
• 26:33
  it really wasn't suffering.
• 26:34
  It was rolling.
• 26:35
  You're, it's not that you're inadequate.
• 26:38
  You are more than this.
• 26:40
  I told the story of inadequacy and I suffered and I was angry as angry at myself as angry
• 26:45
  at everyone.
• 26:46
  I was angry at the way the world was.
• 26:47
  I thought it was unfair, you know, I didn't want to be not at peace.
• 26:50
  I wanted to be at peace.
• 26:51
  I wanted to be calm.
• 26:52
  I wanted to love myself.
• 26:53
  Be happy.
• 26:54
  And they've just seen them possible in that story, but the story was actually different.
• 26:58
  The story was come back, you're more, there's other things going on that you're ignoring.
• 27:04
  But how did you change your story then?
• 27:10
  Oh gosh.
• 27:12
  That's it.
• 27:13
  Well, I have a part two podcast, right?
• 27:14
  Um, really something shifted for you where it wasn't, if the divine thing keeps calling
• 27:19
  you back, you know, and we think, oh, the answer is I need the bigger car boat vacation,
• 27:24
  whatever.
• 27:25
  But then you got to come back again, again, again, and again, and at some point you're
• 27:28
  like, okay, shit, that wasn't it.
• 27:31
  At some point, hopefully, this is what you hope it happens is it's revealed like, okay,
• 27:37
  aha, that's not it, it's got to be over here and then like what, I don't know, that
• 27:43
  door's open now.
• 27:44
  You, you take me there.
• 27:45
  So I kind of already shared with you the thing that woke me up.
• 27:49
  So it was, yeah, what was the moment?
• 27:51
  It's not a sexy.
• 27:52
  Everyone wants it to be sexy.
• 27:53
  Mine wasn't sexy.
• 27:54
  And I think most people's kind of that real reconnecting moment isn't as elaborate as
• 27:59
  we are.
• 28:00
  That's going to wrap it here's the thing.
• 28:03
  This could take years, right?
• 28:05
  But also I think part of it is how self-aware are you hearing and sensing all that that's
• 28:12
  up.
• 28:13
  Right.
• 28:14
  So let's go, let's go in with that.
• 28:15
  So thank you for interrupting because that's, so let's go into the InDesign formula, the
• 28:19
  thing that I invented that I, you know, I used it on my, I used it on myself.
• 28:23
  I took very, it took a long time, took, well, not a long time for most people's life,
• 28:28
  but it took, you know, it took me basically three and a half years and probably seven
• 28:31
  hundred and eight thousand dollars of, in a ton of time.
• 28:34
  I mean, I, I dedicated probably 50 hours a week into finding who I am, being happy.
• 28:41
  What's going on?
• 28:42
  Yeah.
• 28:43
  Yeah.
• 28:44
  Cause I just got tired doing this.
• 28:46
  Are you getting coaching or whatever going through other processes with other people?
• 28:49
  Yeah.
• 28:50
  Carefully too.
• 28:51
  I want to mind you because I do see people who have access to finances, going a little
• 28:55
  while with it and just grabbing for stuff.
• 28:59
  You know, it's, it's fine.
• 29:00
  You need help, but I would definitely say, you know, you're in an area where that supports
• 29:05
  a lot of that.
• 29:06
  You're not going to support tent, like, you know, right?
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:12
  Well, just yeah, I was going to say like every, every fifth store is a, but I mean, that's
• 29:15
  kind of the world right now, right?
• 29:16
  Is it's like, oh, you need this, you need this, you need this.
• 29:19
  And so, so yes, I did a bunch of that, but I will say I had, I had a plan, Jeff, I knew,
• 29:25
  I knew what I didn't have.
• 29:26
  I found people who knew stuff that I didn't know.
• 29:28
  And I went based off my feeling, not their sales copy, not their sales copy.
• 29:32
  Cause honestly, their coaches, coaches, coach probably wrote that sales copy, who he was
• 29:37
  probably the dude I should have met, right?
• 29:38
  So so you got to be careful.
• 29:39
  It's not just, it's not just their sales copy and what's, and what's popular because
• 29:44
  what's popular is just popular for whatever reason it's popular.
• 29:47
  They got the right influencer to endorse them and whatever it is.
• 29:49
  So, you know, I went off of feelings.
• 29:51
  Nobody knows my coach.
• 29:52
  Incredibly expensive.
• 29:53
  He's coached extremely, extremely high level people in this, in, in all industries.
• 29:58
  The guy's just brilliant.
• 29:59
  No, no, no, no.
• 30:00
  So he is.
• 30:01
  He lives in the middle of nowhere in, in Ireland, along with his wife.
• 30:05
  I don't even know if he has a phone out there that I know the male guy comes out like
• 30:08
  once a month, right?
• 30:09
  So, you know, no one knows who this guy is, but he's brilliant.
• 30:11
  And he knew something that I didn't, I didn't know what it was, but I trusted my gut.
• 30:16
  So, so yes, but, but I have a plan, but I like, but I like this, I like this angle you
• 30:20
  wanted to go.
• 30:22
  What is the formula?
• 30:24
  It's, it's what I invented and invented it through kind of my experience.
• 30:27
  So I started, so two years ago, I started hiring coaches to help me dissect my experience.
• 30:35
  Renee Rodriguez is one of them is like, okay, what's, what happened, what happened to
• 30:38
  me?
• 30:39
  And I'm a really, really, really good coach, I'm a freakishly good coach and I did, I also
• 30:42
  didn't know why though, right?
• 30:44
  Like why I did had no training.
• 30:47
  I'm not that brilliant, my, you know, my life's not that spectacular.
• 30:50
  So why am I so gifted at this?
• 30:53
  How do I see things that helps me help other people see stuff?
• 30:57
  It rapidly, right?
• 31:00
  So there's all these things going on and I needed to know why, I shouldn't say I wanted
• 31:05
  to know why, because I knew, you know, they always say success leaves clues.
• 31:09
  So what's to me is like, okay, if I can follow this breadcrum path back, maybe I'll discover
• 31:14
  my design, right?
• 31:16
  Something about me that, you know, will unlock something.
• 31:19
  So it wasn't a sexy road, Jeff, it was like, it was through fumbling, it was through
• 31:23
  trying stuff, right?
• 31:25
  Right?
• 31:26
  But to your point, yes, if we had to boil it down, if you look at the end design formula,
• 31:31
  if you go back to kind of one of the, right, divine design is on one end and then creating
• 31:37
  your reality, which is really whatever you want it to be, right now it is what it is,
• 31:41
  which you have actually a good amount of power over that, believe it or not.
• 31:45
  The steps right before that, when you're dissecting those, it is, it's awareness.
• 31:50
  Because if you can't see, then it is automatic, it is happening to you, you, your consciousness,
• 31:58
  you don't see where your power is going because it's automatic.
• 32:01
  So you assume your power lists and that life is this way and that if you want to be recognized,
• 32:07
  you need to do these things.
• 32:09
  And in reality, you invented that, right, but, but if you don't see it that way, it
• 32:13
  does feel powerless.
• 32:15
  And I empathize with that feeling tremendously because that's how, that's how I feel.
• 32:20
  Yeah, these are, these are wonderful, deep discussions.
• 32:24
  You mentioned Renee, it reminds me of, on his phrases, I know you're, you're familiar
• 32:28
  with which is let your frustration be your fascination.
• 32:32
  And that reminds me of like we're talking about awareness and self-awareness.
• 32:37
  And is that the divine design or divine voice or message, whatever that, when something
• 32:43
  in your life is happening repeatedly that causes you frustration, often we look outward,
• 32:50
  right, instead of inward.
• 32:52
  And I think that's the message I got from Renee and that.
• 32:54
  And I, of course, I showed that with the kids and the family and all that kind of stuff,
• 32:57
  because our response to that frustration, that external stimulus, be it life, be our situation,
• 33:04
  our bank account, whatever, our waistline, yeah.
• 33:08
  So you're frustrated.
• 33:09
  You're, you're, you have discomfort over that.
• 33:11
  Why?
• 33:12
  Does any, I think part of the challenge, and this has been a journey I've been on, is like,
• 33:15
  you've got to allow space for that conversation and that awareness for yourself to happen,
• 33:20
  don't you?
• 33:21
  So it's the, so part of the in-design formula is that exact piece.
• 33:24
  And I think that's why it works for, I'm going to say everyone.
• 33:29
  I know that's a really bold statement, but it does.
• 33:31
  It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant formula.
• 33:33
  It works for everybody.
• 33:34
  It has to.
• 33:35
  It's not, I'm not saying anything.
• 33:36
  You're saying it.
• 33:37
  I'm just showing you, they, they fill in all the blanks.
• 33:40
  I don't do anything, but just guide them back through it.
• 33:43
  So it's, you can't argue with me.
• 33:44
  You're the one that just painted it all out, it's how the formula works.
• 33:47
  So, but yes, what you're talking about is kind of that phase two, right out of the
• 33:52
  divine design, which is, I call it engaging in the world.
• 33:56
  And it's part of your design, though, Jeff, because if, if we didn't, if we didn't have
• 34:01
  a life experience and the, and the mind and the ability to see what's going on and assimilate
• 34:08
  and try stuff and, and do stuff with other people and do stuff with ourselves to do it,
• 34:13
  that we would kind of have no meaning at all.
• 34:15
  So it's like, it's that pain and struggle right there that people like can't stand, but
• 34:20
  it's also, I would say kind of the whole reason we're alive, because I mean, if you, if
• 34:25
  you knew what your divine design was already and your purpose was like predetermined, it
• 34:30
  would kind of eliminate the whole, the whole reason that we're alive and the reason
• 34:34
  we're here, right?
• 34:35
  So I think, I think you are designed, I think you're engaging the world, not knowing what
• 34:39
  you're designed and your purpose is to exercise whatever that is while engaging the world
• 34:46
  and the byproduct is that you become somebody that makes an influence that you were designed
• 34:52
  to make.
• 34:53
  And it feels, and we've been designed to make it feel really, really good, Jeff, when we
• 34:56
  find out what that is.
• 34:58
  It's an undescribable feeling when you, when you honor it.
• 35:00
  So yes, that engagement piece of figuring it out, you can't get rid of that.
• 35:06
  It's a, it's going to happen, right?
• 35:08
  So all right, devil's advocate here, I'm not saying this is me, but I try and think
• 35:13
  in the context of like, you know, the broad brush of potential that we have and people
• 35:17
  with the situations in their own context that they're probably listening to this conversation.
• 35:25
  I'm guessing some people who would hear this conversation would be questioning, right?
• 35:31
  And I know everything's frame of reference, so whatever you're questioning or how you see
• 35:35
  or hear this conversation is based on your own frame of reference.
• 35:38
  But you know, so what about the people who are like, you know, I mean, there are people
• 35:43
  in the world in the US here included that will never have.
• 35:47
  I'm guessing, I don't know, like these thoughts of like, what's my divine design?
• 35:53
  Like I'm the dude who's got to go to the factory and points to clock,
• 35:56
  because I got four kids and I'm making 12 bucks.
• 35:58
  And you know what I mean, that whole thing is like, you said, so do you think, I mean,
• 36:04
  I don't know, I'm just putting this out there, where do you take that and go with it?
• 36:06
  What are your thoughts on that?
• 36:07
  So your divine design, whether you, whether you label that way or not, is your view,
• 36:13
  your take on how to achieve security, safety, right?
• 36:18
  Whether it be financial, mental, mental, right?
• 36:22
  Yeah, so it's, it's all of those things.
• 36:24
  It's love, connection, belonging, it's respect, esteem, and self-actuation, right?
• 36:27
  We all, we all, that's how humans are designed, right?
• 36:30
  Abraham Maslow's, no one's question is work, because humans desire those things.
• 36:34
  Now, whether you call that Maslow's work, divine design, whatever you want to call it,
• 36:38
  I could care less, assign your religious belief to it, it really doesn't matter.
• 36:42
  The point is you have, you are, you're motivated to do something.
• 36:47
  I mean, look at the very, very bottom of the pyramid, I've glossed over it,
• 36:50
  but it's, it's physiological, right?
• 36:51
  You, oh, I'm going to go to the fridge and get water, you are, that you have the motivation
• 36:56
  to drink.
• 36:57
  I don't talk about the bottom of the pyramid, because in America, we don't really struggle
• 37:00
  with a lot of those physiological places, we have places to sleep, we have places to eat.
• 37:04
  But those, so, but just like eating, you have a desire to go to work, save money, put
• 37:11
  money for your 401k, give money to your kid, yeah, yeah, you know, sacrifice your own
• 37:16
  needs for your kids, you're right, so, so, so to speak to your point, sure, maybe you,
• 37:22
  maybe you haven't thought about it, and I don't think you need to, but it's acting on
• 37:26
  you at all times.
• 37:28
  Your motivation to do everything, to love, to connect, to hang out with your friend, have
• 37:33
  a deep conversation with your friend, to help a friend in need, those are coming from
• 37:37
  the divine design.
• 37:38
  So again, I don't think it's, I don't think you need to label it, I don't think you
• 37:41
  need to turn it into something that it's not.
• 37:44
  My point of presenting it, Jeff, is to heal successful people and high achievers, because
• 37:49
  I think at their point, it's really hard because in their frame, it's like, I've done everything
• 37:55
  and it's still not good enough.
• 37:57
  So by presenting the divine design, it's a very, and showing them the process too, it's
• 38:01
  a very healing process allows you to show yourself grace and a lot of other people grace,
• 38:06
  because you're like, okay, I get it, I can see how that motivation has translated through
• 38:11
  all of this stuff and spit out over here as reality.
• 38:15
  So, be, so as devil's advocate, I would just say, yeah, maybe you haven't thought about
• 38:20
  it, but it's acting on you, whether you like to believe it or not.
• 38:23
  I think that's a good distinction, because if you're unfulfilled in some way, that could
• 38:30
  be said as that's its way of acting on you.
• 38:33
  It is.
• 38:34
  I wouldn't say it good, it is.
• 38:35
  And why would be, Jeff, I've tried so hard to reject everything spiritual and everything
• 38:42
  religious, my whole life, and I'm still, I don't have any sort of affiliation even to
• 38:47
  this day, but I'll tell you this, there's something going on, brother, I mean, I just,
• 38:52
  I am so, why would I, I'm here, I am, I'm satisfied financially, time, location, I've
• 38:57
  been very, I've been able to experience a ton of often stuff, why do I, why is that
• 39:01
  stuff now no longer, why am I now wanting to, like, settle down and focus on impact and
• 39:08
  connecting with others and spreading this, I'll tell you right now that my number one priority
• 39:12
  right now is sharing the end design formula, and I mean that in 100, even if I, even if I
• 39:17
  wasn't charging for it, even if I was doing it for free, it's still my number one priority.
• 39:21
  It's all I think about most of the day, I just so compelled to do it, and that's what
• 39:25
  made me start to realize that something else is going on.
• 39:28
  Why, with all the access of awesome entertainment that I have, why is now that, like, the idea
• 39:35
  of just continuously entertaining myself and playing for days and days and days is just
• 39:39
  becoming less and less exciting, so weird, right?
• 39:42
  It makes you wonder what's going on here, why am I, why do I keep being called back to
• 39:46
  self-expression and self-discovery, and then I saw Mazzles work and it's at the top
• 39:52
  of the pyramid, it's the, it is a, it is a human desire, and the one unique thing about,
• 39:57
  so Jeff, let me, let me give you this, so if this doesn't anchor it, if this doesn't
• 40:01
  throw the anchor down, I don't know what will, Mazzles later work as he was doing his study
• 40:06
  and looking at all of these humans needs.
• 40:08
  The bottom four, which is physiological, safety, love connection belonging, and esteem.
• 40:17
  The bottom four, as you get more of them, you get less motivated to get more.
• 40:23
  You become less and less and less motivated as the, as you start achieving all those
• 40:26
  things, respect, money, love, connection, more and more friends, your motivation to go
• 40:31
  out and find more goes down.
• 40:34
  But the top one, self-actualization, which is self-discovery and self-expression, when
• 40:40
  we learn stuff about ourselves, we want more of it.
• 40:44
  Motivation goes up.
• 40:45
  When we express ourselves, what we feel, what we care about, what we love, where in environments
• 40:49
  where that happens, we want more of it.
• 40:51
  It's this crazy thing that Mazzle discovered and proved it, and man, it's so true, look
• 40:57
  at that.
• 40:58
  As I satisfy those, my motivation to get more is going down, and now all that's left
• 41:02
  is self-discovery, self-expression, which is, it does.
• 41:05
  It makes you wonder what's going on here, and we're all looking for purpose, but maybe
• 41:11
  it was right there the whole time, maybe we were just manipulating it into something that
• 41:16
  maybe it wasn't.
• 41:18
  Interesting.
• 41:19
  Yeah, I'm looking at a couple different examples of Mazzle's hierarchy of needs, self-actualization,
• 41:28
  self-fulfillment, interesting, and then there's sometimes there's situations where people
• 41:32
  try and use that in a management context.
• 41:35
  Which is really bizarre to me, because if you study Mazzle's work, Jeff, they misconstrued
• 41:42
  it.
• 41:43
  The pyramid shape was not, it's not a video game.
• 41:46
  You can struggle with one and the other.
• 41:48
  The reason he shaped it as a pyramid was it's amount of attention and personal power
• 41:54
  that that area takes.
• 41:57
  So if you are, if you don't have enough food, you don't have a safe place to sleep drink.
• 42:03
  You're our human design.
• 42:05
  You will have all of your attention and power will go to getting water.
• 42:09
  And so it's, you can struggle differently.
• 42:11
  It's not, self-actualization is not at the top because it's the most important.
• 42:14
  It's because the other ones below, if we don't have those, you're going to want them
• 42:20
  more and more and more and more and it's designed that way.
• 42:22
  And I think it's, and you know, this is just my perspective.
• 42:25
  And no one can really know this for sure because no one knows why I've recreated what
• 42:28
  our purpose is for sure.
• 42:31
  But to me, what those bottom four do is it creates a platform for you to discover self
• 42:38
  and express self.
• 42:39
  So it's like our desires are stronger to achieve those because the better, stronger that
• 42:44
  foundation is, we can start going to what I call that next level, which is, yeah, self-mastery.
• 42:49
  Well, it's interesting, too, when you look at the journey up the pyramid, if you will,
• 42:56
  to your point about how the intention of that pyramid is if I'm lacking in the basic
• 43:03
  needs of air, water, food, safety, you know, and we go further up the pyramid, of course,
• 43:09
  we're going to spend the majority of our time focused on the basic needs of food and
• 43:13
  safety and shelter.
• 43:14
  I would say it this way.
• 43:15
  You can't self-actualize if you're dead, right?
• 43:17
  It's interesting when you see this journey that you are on and that many people in a similar
• 43:22
  situation to you have been on, which is, I've checked the boxes on all of these sections,
• 43:29
  these elements of the pyramid.
• 43:31
  The one left to check is the self-actualization.
• 43:34
  Yeah, and again, it's, it's, it, which by the way is to become the most that you can
• 43:41
  be according to this.
• 43:42
  Well, and, and the, right, right, you see that written, you see that written places, which
• 43:46
  is, you know, who knows what self-actualization actually is.
• 43:48
  It feels really good to tell you that, but, but again, to hammer your point home, that
• 43:53
  motivation piece, too, to me, speaks a lot, right?
• 43:56
  The, when you look at people at that point of the journey, and again, it doesn't, you
• 44:00
  don't have to be rich to do this, Jeff.
• 44:02
  That's just, you know, that's, that's the other thing that people don't understand is perception
• 44:06
  plays a lot into this.
• 44:07
  If you, if you perceive that you don't have enough money to work on other stuff, that perception
• 44:13
  becomes reality.
• 44:14
  And so therefore, you will be stuck in this safety and not being safe, recruits other aspects
• 44:19
  of the brainstem, triggers a fear response, and you can, I mean, you could stay in that
• 44:23
  area for the rest of your life.
• 44:24
  Oh, I, you know, I need 10 million, then when you get 10 million, you need 29, and then
• 44:28
  when you get 20 million, honestly, the jump from 20, at least for my experience, is 100.
• 44:33
  And so, you know, it just, you keep remodeling what safety is.
• 44:37
  And yeah, you just, it, if that, it harms your ability to use your attention to do other
• 44:44
  stuff when, when you complete, when you keep convincing yourself that you're not ready
• 44:48
  yet.
• 44:49
  Yeah.
• 44:50
  Very interesting.
• 44:51
  Well, then let's, let's dovetail this into what's, what's it called again, design?
• 44:58
  Yeah.
• 44:59
  In design.
• 45:00
  So let's do this and tell this into also, let me ask you this first, though.
• 45:04
  All right.
• 45:05
  So you have all the success.
• 45:06
  You, you know, do well, obviously with your physical therapy, business, et cetera.
• 45:10
  And I think you sold some of them off, whatever, right, put yourself in the situation
• 45:14
  financially.
• 45:15
  So how, tell me about the segue into mortgage specifically?
• 45:20
  Why that?
• 45:21
  Yeah, great question.
• 45:22
  So when I, well, the first reaction was, what do I do now?
• 45:29
  Because I mean, I don't, at that point in time, when you start to, you know, if we think
• 45:34
  about the design, where I've now changed life to a point where I don't have, I'm not
• 45:39
  lacking anything.
• 45:41
  So I've now created a container for me to just be me because there's no, there's really
• 45:46
  nothing else I need to do.
• 45:47
  I can just be rolling and find out whatever that is.
• 45:49
  I don't need to, you know, like, I just live in a little pyramid doing pyramid stuff,
• 45:53
  right?
• 45:54
  In terms of, of, of fulfilling whatever it is that that is.
• 45:57
  And I don't, by the way, we're just, yeah, I'm living in my Maslow pyramid, let me
• 46:04
  regret that.
• 46:05
  My in design pyramid.
• 46:08
  And I'm just kind of doing stuff.
• 46:09
  So, so in that, it was like, again, back to what we said before, you got to go with what
• 46:14
  you know, if you're, if you're going to wait for somebody to like tell you, it just
• 46:17
  ain't going to happen.
• 46:18
  It's not.
• 46:19
  It just doesn't work that way.
• 46:20
  No one's going to tell you, you're just not going to feel whatever it is.
• 46:22
  And even if you do feel it, it's probably good.
• 46:24
  Go trust that feeling, but be prepared to understand that maybe two years later, it probably
• 46:28
  wasn't the thing.
• 46:29
  And then there's something else to kind of, that's just kind of how life works, I think.
• 46:33
  But so, so, but to my point, I was in the place where it's like, okay, what do I do?
• 46:39
  Start hanging out in circles of other people struggling with the same thing.
• 46:42
  And a lot of them were using their skill set in ways that, you know, let's use Renee,
• 46:48
  for example, because people who listen to this podcast probably know about it, right?
• 46:51
  So, it's like, okay, I'm going to use my skill set.
• 46:53
  And for those of you who know Renee for a long time, it wasn't always amplify.
• 46:56
  It was, speak from your heart.
• 46:58
  It was the, you know, sales, it was, you know, it's gone through stuff because he's trying
• 47:02
  to express himself through his journey, right?
• 47:04
  And it was a lot of selling.
• 47:05
  And then it was just, you know, speaking was speaking from the heart.
• 47:08
  And then he discovered a ton about himself on his, on his journey through that.
• 47:12
  And now he's sharing that with us through through amplify such a cool thing.
• 47:16
  So I start hanging out with people in circles like that, we're doing the same three, right?
• 47:20
  Learning about themselves and expressing that in a two other people, again, at the top
• 47:27
  of, you know, the pyramid, right?
• 47:28
  They do, and they're going, and you see those people, it's such a magnetic energy because,
• 47:34
  as Maslow said, your motivation to grab those things goes up and up and up.
• 47:37
  So these people are like, it's crazy watching them because they're just, they're in spirit,
• 47:41
  right?
• 47:42
  These people are inspired.
• 47:43
  It's just, it's, it's crazy to watch them.
• 47:45
  It's just, it's, you can't help but stare at them because it's like, good for you, man.
• 47:48
  I love, I love this.
• 47:49
  I don't even know what it is, but something's coming out of you and I just want to be around
• 47:53
  you.
• 47:54
  So, in those circles, I wanted that for myself, obviously, it's like, bro, you're inspired,
• 48:00
  I want to be inspired.
• 48:01
  And that's the, I call that the lighthouse effect.
• 48:03
  And that's why I teach a lot of mortgage professionals like, we're entering the spiritual
• 48:07
  economy.
• 48:08
  So, and everyone's saying that, if you're saying it, everyone's, that's where we're going.
• 48:13
  We're leaving the connection economy and going into spiritual economy.
• 48:15
  People in, at least in the Western countries, people are seeking self.
• 48:19
  Now more than ever, you see it everywhere.
• 48:22
  It's just books are coming out, left and right.
• 48:24
  Everyone's on this, this new kind of journey, right?
• 48:28
  And so, I wanted that for myself and the problem is, you can't force that, Jeff, it's, it's
• 48:35
  your own story.
• 48:36
  And so that was kind of like those past three years is, okay, I went through all this stuff
• 48:41
  to be happy and be all this and now it's awesome, but I want to share it with people for
• 48:45
  whatever reasons, it's just a desire to have.
• 48:47
  And so that was what led into where I am now.
• 48:50
  So now why mortgage?
• 48:51
  I don't know, we can't know everything about everything.
• 48:54
  All I know is how to get people to trust me and send me referrals.
• 48:58
  I can take other licensed people and build a platform for them to crush it.
• 49:04
  So I don't have to.
• 49:07
  And I know how to do that really, really, really well.
• 49:10
  They appreciate where they're working.
• 49:11
  I get that whole thing.
• 49:12
  It's never been difficult for me and then I look around and it's difficult for a lot
• 49:15
  of people.
• 49:16
  So, but I create a platform for those, crush it.
• 49:19
  And then the third piece is, can you, can it run without you?
• 49:24
  Well, mortgage is that, that is, that's the only business model I know.
• 49:28
  It was all of my businesses.
• 49:29
  I've never started a business that was not majority referral based.
• 49:32
  Now, I'm not saying once you have the client, you can't reactivate them.
• 49:36
  That's possible, but it's, you know, it's, it's mortgage is easier.
• 49:40
  I guess what I'm saying is don't call me for, don't call me for help if you want direct
• 49:43
  to consumer.
• 49:44
  I'm just, I know how to do it.
• 49:45
  Clear?
• 49:46
  I just, it's not, I'm not passionate about it.
• 49:47
  But so that's why mortgage, it's, it's, you can, if you do it right, you can, you
• 49:53
  can create a, an ATM that you really enjoy working for and other people enjoy working
• 49:59
  for you.
• 50:00
  Yeah.
• 50:01
  And I've seen it happen.
• 50:02
  You mentioned some of the circles that we, you and I've been around recently at Amplify,
• 50:05
  you know, Ryan Grant is obviously somebody who comes to mind, Josh Meadow, right?
• 50:09
  Other people.
• 50:10
  Yeah.
• 50:11
  These guys haven't touched a file for decades, right?
• 50:13
  I'm at a very high level doing high volume and they do have, to whatever time freedom
• 50:18
  they want.
• 50:19
  That's the cool thing about what you're saying is you get to do this.
• 50:21
  Yeah.
• 50:22
  And it's, and it's, and it's not that you're chilling around on beaches and stuff with,
• 50:25
  you know, covered in, covered in baby, oh, that's not what I'm saying.
• 50:27
  You just, you get a point now where you get to choose what serves the business, right?
• 50:33
  You know, in my case, I'm a horrible leader.
• 50:35
  I, I, I talk too much.
• 50:37
  My brain scattered.
• 50:38
  I intimidate some people, depending on who they are.
• 50:42
  So it's, you know, I'm not trying to, I'm trying to be helpful and like I'm terrifying
• 50:45
  them by accident for my energy, I guess.
• 50:47
  But so anyway, I learned all these things about myself and, and it turned out for me
• 50:50
  with my businesses, there's just no place for me, they're just, they're just wasn't.
• 50:53
  And so, you know, it hurt in the beginning, you stung a little bit, because I think I
• 50:56
  wanted to be a good leader, I wanted to be a revolutionary, I wanted to be a visionary
• 51:00
  even, right?
• 51:01
  I think, oh, well, at least I could be a visionary.
• 51:02
  Well, I can't even do that.
• 51:03
  So, you know, it was a little gut punch at the first that I had no place in them.
• 51:07
  And so yeah, I sold half to Wall Street Olding firm last year and then I still actually
• 51:12
  own some that I, that I could sell that other, that other people run for me.
• 51:19
  Well, what I see from you in terms of what I've heard you speak before and then of course,
• 51:23
  you know, better understanding what you built in the previous business there is your,
• 51:27
  your big one, first of all, what we talked about, like getting clear on living, on in design.
• 51:32
  But secondly though, in order to have that freedom of systems and this is what I'm sensing from you,
• 51:37
  is that you're really good at creating systems that do free you up from being the day-to-day
• 51:43
  and I created a tool for the listener.
• 51:46
  So it's www.rollencochran.com slash mortgage marketing radio and it literally will walk you guys
• 51:54
  through the roadmap from, you know, and I even include some of the end stuff in there that you
• 52:00
  can use from achieving, achieving happiness, achieving fulfillment, creating impact.
• 52:04
  Because that is, you know, that's, it's, it's, it sounds easy.
• 52:09
  It looks easy when these people are out there.
• 52:10
  You thought business was hard, discovering your divine design and expressing it in a way that
• 52:17
  integrates with the world. And that is a, it's, it's a challenge, but I'll also tell you this,
• 52:22
  it's the, it is, it's the most fulfilling thing. I mean, my, my passion behind removing
• 52:27
  mortgage professionals from their businesses is not so they can go on vacation, right?
• 52:33
  The eye passion behind it is these are, these top producers are some of the most influential
• 52:39
  impactful people out there. And we do not need them in the, in the office. We don't need them talking
• 52:44
  about rate. We need these people to express themselves however their design is. And that could,
• 52:49
  some of that could be within, maybe they're supposed to have branches all over the country.
• 52:53
  Because that's their impact, that's their design. Good for them. That's, I'm not telling you what
• 52:56
  your design is and how to do it. You don't need to do what I did or Renee did. Certainly, we don't,
• 53:00
  we don't need a bunch of, if all of us are just vomiting our story, nothing's going to happen
• 53:04
  around here. So I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm just saying create a platform so you can
• 53:11
  at least give it a try. Just step out of the hypnosis for a second, Jeff, and just like,
• 53:19
  try and come back to when you were 18, when you had dreams again, when you had desires,
• 53:24
  those are still there. They didn't go away because you have responsibilities. I mean, those
• 53:29
  desires are alive. I would actually say they're stronger now than ever because at least you
• 53:33
  understand you have the resource now to get up. Whereas back then they were just a dream. So
• 53:39
  yeah, I'll just leave it with that. But that's the, that's my passion. That's my why. It's not,
• 53:43
  it's, it's, you got, the world will be a better place if these top producers are expressing
• 53:49
  themselves in their unique way. Yeah, that's awesome. So give out that website once again, please.
• 53:55
  Yep. So www.rollandcochran.com slash mortgage marketing radio.
• 54:01
  And you guys can, you know, you have to be in show notes or if you forget, just roll and
• 54:05
  cochran, find me on Instagram or something. I'll send it to you that way or send or message
• 54:09
  Jeff or something. Yeah, I mean, but yeah, there'll be only concerns for sure as you can simply
• 54:13
  click there and check out what you have to offer. I think it's really great and refreshing.
• 54:19
  And whoever's listening to this right, it's, you know, the old saying when the student is ready,
• 54:23
  the teacher will appear. And I think there's people obviously listening to this at our various
• 54:28
  stages along their journey. Some people are really early in their journey. And what you're,
• 54:33
  what you create or offer may not be the right timing for them. But for other people, it is. I
• 54:39
  talked to somebody actually just yesterday and mentioned you. So I don't know if he is going to
• 54:43
  contact you. He said he would. But if you're at that place where you are further up on that
• 54:50
  hierarchy of needs and you do have you do have the wherewithal and that little calling voice
• 54:55
  internally, be like, you know what, man, there's something more for me, right? And you're where
• 54:59
  and listening of that voice, that message. I think checking out what you do is like a great next
• 55:05
  step. Well, I think too, if you're, if you're and don't get it twisted, this is not just for
• 55:11
  like rich people and stuff. I mean, your divine design is, it's for all of us. It really,
• 55:15
  I mean, it's your, one would argue it's your purpose to fulfill and be in the world that way.
• 55:20
  That's, I mean, what else is going on if, if that's not that? So, so don't get it twisted.
• 55:25
  Not just for certain folks. It's, here's what I, here's what I describe is the only reason,
• 55:32
  the only reason it comes off like that, Jeff is because, you know, when, when you're broke,
• 55:36
  it's really easy to just be like, hey, man, I can't, I can't even afford blueberries out of season.
• 55:40
  Like, I don't need to be finding my divine design. We think, but let me tell you what,
• 55:44
  the reason I was retired at 29 was because I was more connected to my divine design than anyone
• 55:51
  I knew. That's why I didn't know. I, that's why this is my story. So, I listen to my product.
• 55:57
  That's why this is what I'm coaching is in height. Like, this is, I always thought I was all these
• 56:02
  systems and money making shenanigans and sales. It, okay, sure, maybe. But the reason I was so
• 56:07
  good at those things that I just said was because I've, like I said, I thought it was torture.
• 56:13
  I thought it was torment and it was not. It was, it was my divine design telling me what to do.
• 56:19
  And I just, I think I just listened more than a lot of kids did when they're 15. I was just, I was
• 56:23
  very, I heard it a lot. It was a lot louder of a voice to me than say maybe some of the other voices.
• 56:28
  So, to, my point is though, it's a massive motivator. So, so yes, if this does not connect with
• 56:36
  you and you don't want this at all, cool. Don't, you know, circle back with me in 10 years,
• 56:41
  because you will. We're all, we're all going to want to. It's sometimes. So, I'm not saying it's not
• 56:45
  for you. Just come back when, when you do feel that desire to be more. But I would also say too,
• 56:50
  there are some people, Jeff, who, who are like me where this, this is really, really loud. And
• 56:57
  there, I don't know, 15 years old, 10 years old. They're just very, they're, they're those empaths.
• 57:00
  They're just feeling this gets crying all the time. It's very like, you know, you feel it in
• 57:04
  your chest all the time. It's like a huge weight, a ton of pressure. There might not be something
• 57:10
  wrong with you. You might not need medication. You could, you actually might just be that person
• 57:14
  that's reconnected with the divine design. So, it's, I just want to say that because it's,
• 57:18
  there's nothing wrong with you. Like, sometimes reconnecting with it and embracing it earlier,
• 57:23
  is the rocket fuel to fast forward through the business stuff. And again, you don't want to fast
• 57:29
  forward. But I mean, it's, it'll just happen a lot faster because you're being the lighthouse.
• 57:33
  You're, you're being inspired and people want to be around inspired people because they feel
• 57:39
  this little thing that says, maybe there's more going on. Right. Exactly. Yeah. People are attracted
• 57:46
  to the light, you know? Awesome. We unfortunately out of time, but listen, I appreciate you being here
• 57:51
  and sharing such wisdom. I could have actually kept talking for another hour and going deep,
• 57:56
  deeper, right? Yeah, I'll do a part two in six months or something. Yeah, part two in six months
• 58:00
  because we, we both will have evolved even more since then. I'll be a different person. I'll have
• 58:04
  beard and all sorts of weird stuff, right? Well, listen, I'm, I'm grateful for your time and
• 58:10
  listeners. Hey, you know what to do. If you like this episode, please let us know. If you want to
• 58:13
  learn more about rolling, what he does, the links in the show notes, rolling in Cochrane.com
• 58:17
  forward slash mortgage record video. Appreciate you. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 58:30
  Hey, guys, what's up? Real quick. You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership
• 58:33
  before. And I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you
• 58:37
  simply need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's
• 58:42
  just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business
• 58:47
  for you. Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close
• 58:52
  more loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes,
• 58:58
  expert training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you,
• 59:03
  everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert
• 59:07
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• 59:13
  content to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates,
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  real easy, but that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top
• 59:25
  L.O.'s authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now
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  in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members, you'll get access
• 59:38
  to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere from 8 to 50 transactions
• 59:45
  in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded to our platform for you so you can
• 59:50
  get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents. So what are you waiting for?
• 59:55
  You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there.
• 59:59
  And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see if it's a fit.
• 1:00:04
  Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right now.
• 1:00:08
  Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro.