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Is AI being adopted at a rapid rate? · Marketing Shed

• Warren Fiveash: Good morning, Paul. How are you doing today? Paul Duxbury: Yes, am full of the joys of autumn. a bit chilly. ⁓ The I had the, in fact the radiator is on in the shed just to take the edge off. But I think the sun comes out later, it will be fine. Warren Fiveash: No yay. ⁓ you're in a cool part of your garden then? You're in a cool spot. Paul Duxbury: Do you mean cool in the sense of the style ⁓ the vibe? No, it's cool because the sun hasn't yet got round to it. But ⁓ no, good, it's good. How are Warren Fiveash: Well, bye. ⁓ Good, good. Well, I've got the sun beaming right through to my shed, so it's fairly it's fairly decent temperature in here, which is good. But I'm good. Good enjoying the enjoying the ⁓ the autumnal weather, which is which is good. I like I like September. I don't know about you, I I've always I've always liked September. It feels like a it's like a mini January, it's like a refresh. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Actually, I saw someone post and they said they felt that September was like the start of the year more than January. it's a funny one because I was away for the first 10 days of September. it like that first 10 days is sort of calm before the storm because you think it's back to school, but it's not. But then this week, it's like gloves are off. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: let's get everything sorted in the run up to Christmas now and it's all going to go mad until about the second week of December. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, it is it is. It's that run, it's that big run up to December, isn't it? But yeah, good, it's good from enjoying it. And ⁓ what have you been what have you been up to this week then, Paul? Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Well, has been busy. been so I was doing some more work around strategic presence and executive influencing. So has been I've been on ⁓ a bit of a as well, which has been nice. But you know what, what's on the strategic presence stuff is that one of the big is that a lot of people, and probably me included, that when we are having conversations, we what is the actual decision that we're focused on. So, you know, we're happy to share background and lots of information, but we kind of miss what the point of sharing that is. ⁓ So good reminder to me, as well as to the people I was teaching, that if seeking to influence somebody, always good to front of mind what Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: decision you're seeking to by that conversation. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, I always think what's the outcome you want at the end and then and then work backwards. So you y you you think what's the ideal scenario here and and then make sure that you're you're working towards that for whether whatever meeting it is. So like you say, you can just go in and brain dump for a meeting around kind of thoughts around something in particular, but actually you need to focus on the outcome at the end, don't you? Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Yeah, very good. Well, you should be doing this training, not me. ⁓ Very good. And how about you, Warren? What have you been up to? Warren Fiveash: No, ⁓ definitely not. yeah, well kids been back to school. So it's we're gradually getting back to a routine, which is good. football's football's and truly back, isn't it, Paul? So I've been paying a lot of attention to that, which has been good. It's been nice to see that come back. So I've been looking at that and and it's as you just said, Paul. I think that week that first week of September was kind of okay, and now we're right back in the mix ⁓ and everyone's back. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Warren Fiveash: And looking for stuff to get done. So yes it's good. It's good stuff. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yeah, that is good. That is good. And I I was I nearly made a mistake. I nearly asked you about the information that you can't share yet because it's embargoed. So so I'm not asking you. ⁓ I will remember next time to ask you because. Warren Fiveash: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We'll tease it. Yeah, yeah. That's yeah, it's good good reminder, Paul. We'll remember that one for next time. And ⁓ and we Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, but but I've not asked you because because it's embargoed so Warren Fiveash: And we can tell our listener we can tell our listener in a couple of weeks time, can't we? Yes. Good. And what have you been what have you been seeing in the marketing sphere, Paul? Or what's it what's caught your attention over the Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Well, well, there's been there's been quite a lot. I'm not going to talk about what's her name? Sydney, Sydney Sweeney. I'm not going to talk about that because there's a lot of noise about that. I'm to talk about something which is rather than, you know, cutting edge Hollywood stars. I'm going to talk about pottery in Derbyshire. I'm to talk about Denby. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ yes. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: pottery, because you may have seen that, I mean, they've, that business has been going since I think it is, and business went into administration just a of weeks ago. So they're no longer manufacturing Denby pottery in Derbyshire, which is a shame. I mean, ⁓ I'm all on Denby. I've got ⁓ a kitchen full of Denby, because I ⁓ really like Warren Fiveash: Right. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: but the brand has been bought by the group behind home bargains. Interesting. TJ Morris. Yeah. and so Denby has simultaneously disappeared. Manufacturing gone, shops gone, but it's also survived in that the brand lives on, will live on through home bargains. so the brand has been saved. The business. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: How has it? Paul Duxbury: hasn't been saved and the pottery certainly hasn't been saved. so my question is, was failure inevitable? Because basically there were big pressures, it's an energy intensive manufacturing process, there's cost of living consumer confidence is not high and the way we nowadays. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Mm-hmm. Paul Duxbury: the demand for premium homeware, I imagine, is falling off, we're much more casual. We're not using paper plates, but can pay 250 quid for Denby, or you could pay 50 quid for a equivalent. ⁓ And it feels like there are lots of external pressures, but I wonder those high costs killed ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Denby or whether Denby was simply too weak to withstand those higher costs. I wonder whether better marketing could have changed things. I don't think it's an advertising question. I think it's really a meeting consumer needs question. know, households are getting smaller. ⁓ Complete crockery sets are probably less fashionable than they were. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And there's lots of less expensive and quite attractive alternatives. the problem with Denby is its durability is a bonus or a benefit and, a downside in that if, if their products last forever, where do you get growth from? ⁓ which isn't it? ⁓ I know, mean, Den, Denby did do stuff about that. They did do like mugs that. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: fitted within coffee machines or dishes for big dishes, that sort of thing. ⁓ I wonder whether they adapted boldly enough and quickly enough in to be in stronger position to be able to deal with those cost challenges. could gone down. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I don't know, limited edition line. They could have looked at stronger commercial stories around, I don't know, buy once, buy for life. Maybe they could have moved some of their production overseas whilst maintaining their Derbyshire-made core. I just wonder if they could have done things differently. I don't know. What do you think? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how long have they been around, Paul? Paul Duxbury: Well, a hundred and twenty... No, two hundred and twenty years. Warren Fiveash: And are they full a long time. Are they fa are they still fam were they still family run then before the buyout? I don't know. No. Paul Duxbury: I don't think so. But you know, the brand hasn't gone. The thing will be to see what Home does with it. the question really is whether Home Bargains can keep the brand name alive and thriving or whether it's just extending the past for a little bit longer because Warren Fiveash: Have I? Come to target. Paul Duxbury: You know, every, every day that that brand is not supported is going to be a diminishing of the brand strength. and so it'd be fascinating to see if, if the Denby brand gains a longer term future, or we just, just end up sort managing the decline a bit more gently. Warren Fiveash: And and you and the brand of home bargains does feel slightly jarring with Denb's from what you've said. I don't know a lot about Denbys, but from what you've told me it's like once and buy, high quality. Not saying home bargains isn't high quality, but it's very much come and go, isn't it? You know, you get things once but you might buy it again next year. You know, it's like it it doesn't feel it feels a bit jarring, doesn't it, with the with the brand. So you can see a world where, like you said, for a very short period of time they continue it, but actually it just becomes part of home bargains in the end. But I agree with you. I do think it's a failure of good marketing. I think it's slightly different sector and scenario. It's not a brand as such. But I I think the same about pubs. I think the same about pubs. People's habits have changed and ⁓ we talk about the failure of pubs, but about pub not as many people going and high costs and but is it a failure of marketing? I know it's very hard running a pub, obviously. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Mmm. Warren Fiveash: public house, but have they adapted enough to current trends and and and and and adapted their offers to kind of the current market. It's very much, you know, if you think about pubs 50, 60 years ago and ⁓ what they were kind of perceived as then to where people's habits and needs are today, very different. Very different, I think. You think about I you know there's a pub at the end of the road that looks quite quiet a lot the time in the day. And I think if they turn that into a cafe Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ y you know, there's the you know, ⁓ a working space, co working space potentially. There's loads of things that they could do to kind of extend their life through the day to earn more income. And you think, actually is that a failure of is that a failure of good ⁓ marketing? So I do tend to agree with you around Dembies. It sounds like they haven't adapted. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I think so. think your pub idea is brilliant. And I think that's exactly right. It's thinking about what do consumers, customers need to what extent can we meet those needs through the resources we've got at our disposal. Yeah, I you're exactly right. And I don't know that Denby could have been saved. I it's good that the brand survives. But I suspect there's with hindsight more that could have been done ⁓ to avoid the business going into administration. But hey, easy for us to say from this position, ⁓ I'm sure it's not so easy if you'd been actually in the business with all those challenges. ⁓ about you, Warren? What have you been seeing in the world of marketing? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Well gone to that in a slightly different degree. I've gone into to tech. So we haven't talked about AI for a while, have we? But Paul Duxbury: well, I'm an AI hologram. Warren Fiveash: who knows, right, these days. But you know, I saw I saw something about anthropic having to put on watermarks on contents that that's AI generated so people know it's AI generated soon. So, you know, you you haven't got the you haven't got the watermark Paul, so I'm assuming you're real at the moment. But but but doesn't doesn't mean you doesn't mean the AI's telling the truth, does it? So doesn't mean Paul Duxbury: point, yes, yes. Warren Fiveash: But yeah, I I don't know, just to turn a little bit of a lean back. There's lots about AI in the news, you know, and some very bleak bleak new news headlines about the threat of AI, isn't there? And ⁓ who knows what what's going on there and what the truth is. But I just sort of paused for thought and thought, actually, we spoke about this a lot when we first started the podcast, didn't we? And adoption within businesses and ⁓ And I just I'd have a look and see if there's any stats around around kind of how people are adopting AI. And ⁓ there there is obviously there has obviously in the last year been a massive increase in adoption across big organizations of AI. to give you an example, forty-four percent this is a report by McKinsey a couple of weeks ago, forty-four percent of large organizations, I can't remember the diff definition, I'll find it. large organizations are Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: are adop are scaling AI across their whole enterprise. So that's up from 38% a year ago, apparently. So it's up six percent in a year in terms of scaling across the business, not just kind of siloed departments kind of, you know, testing and and running. So the report tells us, or what's generally kind of the narrative, is ⁓ that adoption across the organisation has kind of increased quite exponentially. Paul Duxbury: Hmm. Warren Fiveash: whereas before it's very much in the experimental phase, actually adoption across orgs has kind of gone up massively. So and what the disparity between large organisations as you'd expect and small organisations is huge. So large organisations are doing that at some scale ⁓ and smaller are kind of being left behind in that regard. So they're still maybe using individuals are using it, but perhaps not whole organization are adopting it in the way Paul Duxbury: Mm-hmm. Warren Fiveash: you'd think. are the most widely kind of rolled out thing ⁓ regards to AI you'd expect. And I must admit, I've seen that with with my own eyes across most. I went on Argos the other day and there was a chat bot asking you know, there was a chat bot available for me to ask questions about a product I was looking at. And I I don't remember seeing that before, but useful all the and yeah, scaling quicker. And I think Paul Duxbury: Mm-hmm. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ there was ⁓ also something around I think it was employees feel like AI has been is been a really productive asset to them. So the last year that has increased as well in regard to the productivity of individual or the way people feel is making them product productive. So there's no I don't think there's actually recorded information whether that is the truth, but people are that it is making them more productive. I did also see another Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Warren Fiveash: report though saying that I'll find it, I'll dig it out and share it, that another organisation did a a test to see how ⁓ productive AI is it within marketing itself and actually the test found that people that you were using AI said that they felt it was more productive but actually when they looked at what they produced it wasn't as productive as those that weren't. Paul Duxbury: Hmm. Warren Fiveash: So there is some debate about whether it f it feels productive because you're asking this thing questions and it's delivering what you think you need you think that's doing it quicker. But actually, are you having to go back and repair stuff that AI hasn't done quite right and that's taking more time? And actually you're not really thinking about that or measuring that because you're just thinking about the output it initially gave you. So yeah, interesting questions. But what I've what I guess my point is you're seeing massive adoption of this AI, and then you've got in the news about, ⁓ we need to pull back a bit here. So there's a bit of a We're ⁓ I think we're at a crossroads and I think we might we might have sort of predicted this or you did predict this a couple of years ago when we first started talking about it, Paul. y you know, everyone is saying it's gonna do X, Y, and Z in two years and we're gonna move this quickly. And now and now at this point now where people are starting to be a bit more measured about the next steps, it feels like. There's been big adoption, but now the next step is actually where where does this take us? Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yeah. It is interesting, isn't it? And I I noticed that, there was an ad, wasn't there recently with a chicken on a unicycle? can't remember which brand it was for, but it was AI And there I think less noise about that than previous, previous uses of of AI within advertising. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Mm. Paul Duxbury: It felt like I assume quality improved to such an extent that people are saying, well, you why wouldn't accept this? And I assume there was a of creativity behind it. I don't think the AI came up with the idea of the chicken on a unicycle. It's just the AI was able to execute the idea really well. But I wonder... I wonder whether we are experiencing the relatively trivial elements of AI. So we're here putting briefs together that are easier to put together because of AI. We're analyzing lots of data and preparing presentations using AI, responding to emails. But I wonder if that's not really meaningful. And the meaningful stuff... is where AI is being used to hack systems, create weapons. of the changing changing impact of AI is happening in those realms, which are beneath the surface, but ⁓ massively important. Warren Fiveash: Mm. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And all the noise is just that, you know, it's and I doing relatively mundane things that make our lives a little bit easier. But that be ⁓ generating all noise, it's the stuff that's happening beneath the surface that's going to be life changing. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, you're right. You're probably right. That that and that stuff you're sort of I think is what you're being made where aware of more now, aren't you? You've seen it in the news that maybe people hadn't really thought about before. But the the yeah, the day to day stuff, you're right, it probably is the sort of the trivial stuff that makes a bit of an impact in our day to day, but in the large scheme of things isn't really isn't gonna change. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: isn't gonna change the game in regards to where human beings go, is it? So inter yeah, it's just an interesting point in time we're at, I think. And I think we'll look back at this point with with in with interest, especially from a marketing point of view, 'cause I feel like I do feel like there's been a bit of pushback against AI generated content and actually the value of it and actually human beings valuing the real thing, seeing the thing and wanting to see the real thing and valuing Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: stuff made by humans essentially. So I do think there has been a lot of pushback in that. And I think you always said that and we always said that visuals and creative development in terms of the output, the final output like a T V ad or print ad, people will still want those things to be feel real and human. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yeah, I think you're right. And I don't quite know how that's going to manifest itself. I think that's right. There's going to be a renewed focus in human experience. And that's where that's perhaps where value will be. Because at the end of the day, that's expensive to deliver, isn't it? I mean, it's very hard to deliver at scale. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. I bought a I bought a birthday card the other day. I'm pretty sure it was AI generated, the image. You you know, you sort of there's that sort of soft glean over it, isn't there? You could t I could sort of tell. ⁓ I thought the kids would like it 'cause it's a nice picture. So but yeah, so I think it is creeping in in places, but I think with the high value stuff I think that's where where it'll be really ⁓ of value and that's where you should put your investment. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yes. Warren Fiveash: But we'll see, we'll see. I think we should report back on this as we go monthly to see how things are progressing. Yeah. Great stuff. Well, what you got going on this week, Paul? You jetting off doing training somewhere or w where you where are you off to this week? Paul Duxbury: For sure. Yes. I am not shutting off. No, no. I'm enjoying ⁓ autumn. I'm doing quite a lot of intense at moment around storytelling with data, data visualization, love those topics. ⁓ And there seem to be an increased demand from organizations for what you might call broader commercial skills within marketing. So there's always that interest in How do we do marketing strategy? How do we do marketing execution? But there's a focus at the moment on how do we get those specialist skills to penetrate business better by being able to have the right conversations with other teams. so yeah, with data, data visualization seems to be part of that. So I'm doing that, but I'm also... doing a fascinating piece of work around creating a growth strategy and plan. I can't go into the details, but it's really interesting and motivating, frankly, to a lot of the theory that I help people consider and learn and apply and apply it myself to a real marketing challenge about how to how to grow within a developing category. So yeah, bit of hands-on stuff and quite a bit of teaching as well, but all from shed, all within the UK, at least the next few weeks. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Well, I look forward to hearing about that. Actually I'm interested in the commercial thing. and wonder do you think actually, Paul putting you on the spot here, but is that the com the lack of commercial aptitude, I guess is the word, it lets Marcuses down. So we're at like the marketing strategy, understanding our positioning audience, but actually how we speak across the business is something that a skill that maybe Marcuses sometimes miss. Paul Duxbury: it's an interesting one. I mean, you could take a half empty view and, and, and, and I could agree with that and say, marketers are very good at marketing, and, ⁓ executing all that good stuff. but, ⁓ don't always the business on the side, or you could take a half full point of view and say, businesses are appreciating that to, to grow, they need to think about marketing and take on board. marketing principles and apply those. And therefore they need their marketing expertise or their marketing experts to be better at getting business on board with their thinking, their customer focus and so on. So I'm going to go with the latter. I'm going to say that businesses recognize that marketing is even more value to add and therefore a calling on marketing to be more influential in conversations around how we grow. And to do that, marketers need to acquire skills such as how to influence effectively, how to have strategic presence, how to tell compelling stories backed up by data, how to visualize data in a way that conveys a key insight or a key point. And I think that's good news. I think that recognizes and strengthens role of marketing. and marketeers within a business. Warren Fiveash: I think that last point about data and telling a story w around it is really, really important. I the amount of times I've seen decks full of data which ⁓ really tell that doesn't really tell you anything. I think telling stories through data is really important, a massive part. Paul Duxbury: and it's how we engage, isn't it? I mean, if somebody says to me, like to present some data to you, then that's a bit of bit of an amber, amber signal. If they say I'd like to tell you a story, I'm like, yeah, what's what's what's going on? ⁓ storytelling is is key. So that's what I'm up to. How you, Warren? What are you doing? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Big big big planning time this time of year for for me, 'cause financial year ends at the end of this year, so we are getting our ducks in a row for next year. So it's always fun planning for for twenty for the next year. so we'd be lots of chatting to different teams about what they're planning, looking at the strategy, making sure we're tiering to that and kind of picking out the bits that we're gonna focus on for next year. So that's that's probably me for the few weeks, to be honest. Paul Duxbury: You're in strategic mode for the next few weeks. Warren Fiveash: Yes. Yeah. Strategic mode. So I'm look looking forward to that. Should be good. Paul Duxbury: You'll be horizon scanning ⁓ out of the box and all that. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, how'd you how'd you scan? How do you you know do that these days? It's so hard, isn't it, to a few scenarios. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, obviously. Yeah. It's making me more productive, it's making me more efficient, make helping me do my day to day, isn't it? Paul Duxbury: Excellent. Well, good luck with that. And I look forward to hearing both the success of your strategy and planning ⁓ and the news that hopefully break by the time we do the next session. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Good stuff. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will I'll maybe I'll give an exclusive. We could make it an exclusive for the next one. Paul Duxbury: I can barely wait, barely wait. Take care. Warren Fiveash: Great stuff. Cheers, Paul.