Latest / The Hannah Hammond Show / The Hiring Hack That Scales Companies in Under 1 Year | Tim Herriage

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The Hiring Hack That Scales Companies in Under 1 Year | Tim Herriage · The Hannah Hammond Show

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I'm sitting here today with Tim Harridge, founder and CEO of
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Ternus, which is a national private money lending company
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debt fund. They finance one to four unit
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residential properties for the most part that are they'll fund
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up to 100% financing. And he has this crazy track
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record. Marine turned into real estate
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investor, turned into Co founding a company with
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BlackRock and then taking that company public and selling that
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company, leading the national expansion of RCN Capital, which
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is another national residential real estate debt fund.
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And then now he launched Ternus. And we actually know each other
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through multiple different masterminds that we're in and
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excited to just hear your story. I have so many questions to ask
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you. You are an absolute powerhouse.
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And we were just talking offline too.
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He doesn't just work hard, he plays hard.
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He has fun and he's really living his best life.
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And I'm just thank you. Welcome.
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Welcome to the show. Yeah, I got introduced at my
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buddy Mike Hambre. It's a mastermind investor fuel
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as the guy who put the fund in funding and, and, and I love
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that introduction. You know, God, I got out of the
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Marine Corps 24 years ago now. And if you told me that I'd be
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sitting here doing podcast talking about the billions and
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billions of dollars of originations I've done, I've
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been like, now you get the wrong guy.
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So it's been a fun career and you know it.
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It's it's great to have a true passion for what you do.
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Yeah, yeah. How did you?
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I mean, what was your upbringing like?
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And I mean, you went to the Marine Corps and then you got
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into real estate. So what led you to go into the
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Marine Corps? And then what led you to
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transition out into real estate? So I ended up failing high
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school because of attendance issues.
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Came from a family that was kind of yeah.
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But kind of what? Just not great.
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Divorce, drugs, that kind of stuff growing up and when I I
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graduated high school and summer school and I just needed to get
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out of town. So like there's no romantic
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story of 9/11 happened or whatever.
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This was before 911. I just a buddy of mine.
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It's so unpoetic. We're at this party and this
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dude comes back from Navy boot camp and he's wearing his
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uniform and pulling all the chicks.
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And a buddy of mine goes, dude, we should join the Navy.
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And I go, Nah, if we joined anything, I'd be the Marine
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Corps. He goes, let's do it.
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And we went and joined the next day.
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He didn't get to go because he had high blood pressure.
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So I went alone. We joined on the buddy program,
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but I went without my buddy. So then, you know, but the
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Marine Corps really set me on the right track.
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I mean, when I several combat things and a lot of culture,
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touring the world, getting to meet people from outside of my
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circle. And I lived in Japan for two
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years. I've been, I was, I went to 17
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countries in a five year period when I'd never left the United
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States before. So it really helped me broaden
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my horizons. And then I saw you and Kiyosaki
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have done some things when I got out.
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So, So Robert Kiyosaki was a Marine when I got out of the
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Marine Corps, my gunnery Sergeant, which Kiyosaki was a
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gun, he handed me the book Rich Dad, Poor dad.
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And he goes, you should read this.
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And just like a good Marine, I read it and I was like, that
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sounds cool. And then I read Richest Man in
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Babylon. Then I started out as a
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construction project manager for a house slipper in Dallas.
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Then I became someone's acquisitions guy.
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Then I became someone's dispositions guys.
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And mind you, this is like an O3 before all the social media
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information about this was available.
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I mean, we didn't even use Google.
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We used Hydra as a search engine.
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My first website I built, I don't even remember the
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platform, but it was wholesalehouses.net, and I built
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it in 2003. And I started with a Constant
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contact e-mail list, and I'd go to the Rias and collect business
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cards and like type them into the Constant Contact the next
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day. And that's kind of how I got
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started. And then I got really lucky.
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Do you know Scott Horn in Dallas?
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I don't. Think so.
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He's got some title business out here in Arizona.
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Great mentor of mine. I sat down with him in O3O4.
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I said, I'm thinking about going out of my own and I want you to
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be my hard money lender. And he's like, dude, I've been
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watching you for a couple years. Why don't we just partner and
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you can use all my money. And at that time he had like 600
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houses. Everyone knew him and he was big
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into owner finance. So I'm going somewhere with
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this. Just stay with me.
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And he's like, look, all these houses your wholesale and if you
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just wrap financing around them, you double your profit.
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I'm like, teach me that. And so then like, and that was
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back when hard money was 18 and 2 or 16 and 4.
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Like you can make good money with it.
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And then it got to where we were literally owner financing our
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wholesale inventory and turning $20,000 ribs into $40,000 ribs.
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Like just by offering financing. And then we started building an
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owner finance portfolio. By the time O7 rolled around, I
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owned over 100 owner finance notes.
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I was like 2829 years old. Then O eight hit.
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We lost everything, fought our way out of foreclosure, fought
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our way out of everything, ended up never having a foreclosure.
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But that type of market really hardens you.
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I hear people complaining about today's market.
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I'm just like, kids, it's fine. But yeah, I mean, and and then
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out of that, I started this company called the REI Expo that
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I grew into the largest trade show in the nation.
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And then in 2014, I sold it to Eddie Wilson at Think Realty and
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they now have sold that to Dan Fleischman at Aspire.
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And Andrew Cordle was one of my first partners over there.
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And but through the Expo, I got to speak at the Five Star
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Conference to the Five Star Conference.
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I met the guys at Blackstone through that.
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We started be to our finance. We took that public in 2021.
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I was basically retired from 18 to 21.
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By the way, don't do it. It's a horrible life.
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All I did was drink beer and eat barbecue.
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And my mind kind of got stale. Like I wasn't invigorated by
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anything anymore, right? It was just blah.
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And then in 2021, the CEO of RCN Capital, good friend of mine,
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Jeff Tesch, called and said, hey, come join us.
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And so we worked it out. I joined as the executive
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director, took an equity position in the company.
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And then in late 2023, I listened to Start with Y again.
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And it put me on this course of Turnus, which you know, is Latin
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for threefold and threefold being it's the golden triangle
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from the book Start with Y. There's three triangles inside
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the triangle. So everything is with meaning.
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So my entire company is built on the three core premises that
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gets everyone into everyone into real estate, which is number
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one, they want to make money. Number 2, they want passive
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income or cash flow and #3 they want to build long term wealth
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or legacy. So our logo embodies our
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mission, embodies our name. So it's been fun.
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It took 12 months to do our first hundred loans.
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It took six months to do our 2nd 100 loans.
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It took three months to do our 3rd 100 loans.
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And we'll be doing 100 loans a month by the end of this year.
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Amazing. Congratulations.
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I mean, you're just, you've done so many incredible things.
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I can't even be getting comprehend of, you know,
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partnering, partnering with Blackstone and then taking a
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company public and then going off and retiring and then
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starting a new one. So what were some of the like?
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Did you have a lot of success early on in your career or was
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it a lot of force and resistance and failures before you were
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able to kind of breakthrough and start to achieve some massive
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success in your life? So many failures.
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I've started 17 companies. At least half of failed.
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Probably 20% were sold for profits.
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Probably 20% were sold for losses and then the rest still
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operate. So I actually still buy houses.
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I'm not as large as I used to be.
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I still we only buy like 50 a year, which some people would
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say Oh my God that's huge. But when you're used to doing 2
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or 300 a year like 50s light work.
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We wholesale some of them. We keep them as rentals.
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We've got short term rentals, mid term rentals, all that.
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I hate house buying now. It's boring to me.
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My wife would joke around and say that I'm the only person she
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knows that could work 3 hours a week and make $1,000,000 a year
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and refuses to do so. And but once you've done it that
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long and that, well, like, it's just not exciting.
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Yeah. I mean, God, the first year when
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I was a project manager, I remember.
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So this would have been 02. Christmas rolls around that year
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and like, my cell phone's getting cut off and like, I
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don't have gas money. They owe me like $8000 in back
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commissions. And I remember the owner of the
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company at that time had this Christmas party at his, you
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know, $1,000,000 house over in the Elm Streets in Dallas.
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And I go to it and I'm just thinking this motherfucker,
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like, he owes me $8000, which is $8100 more than I got in my bank
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account. And like, here he is throwing
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his lavish party. And you know, that was tough.
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I I, I ended up wholesaling a house that I bought that should
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have went through the company and I ended up doing it on my
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own. And I deducted the commissions
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that they owed me and I deducted the Commission I would have got
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on that house. And I gave them the rest of the
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money. And the guy's like, you stole
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from us. I'm like, yeah, whatever, dude.
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Then I went to work with another guy and I knew early on that I
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did not want to just be transactional.
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I wanted to build a portfolio assets, right?
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And this guy promised me if I do a year number one, he would take
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me to the Home Investors Convention.
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That was the ugly house company I worked for for a while.
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And then I ended up having 50 offices and I made him number
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one in the nation. I bought 111 houses my first
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year with him. I wholesaled 87 of them.
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And then convention came around and we knew that we were going
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to be the number one office in the nation and it was in Vegas
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and I'd never been to Vegas. So this is, I don't know, 28.
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I'm I'm not even 28. I'm 25.
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And he's like, no, you got to stay.
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Someone's got to work. And I quit on the spot.
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And my dad's like, you are crazy son who quits A6 figure job at
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your age. No education.
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I'm like, I do. And that's when I met Scott and
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Scott taught me finance and Scott taught me to lay
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gratification. He's like, no, no, we're going
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to make a bunch of money, but you're not taking it.
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You're going to put yourself on a reasonable salary and we're
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going to reinvest in the business.
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And I'd never been taught that before.
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So that was very important because it's the only thing that
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saved me when O 8 rolled around because I had resources and
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patience and I'd built a stable company underneath the profit
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engine. So yeah, there's been, there's
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been a lot of failures. So how did you not have a
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foreclosure in 2008 when you guys were financing?
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You guys are holding the notes on all these properties.
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I don't understand that. Oh, I foreclosed on people.
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I just never had a bank foreclose on me.
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And you and you already had a bunch of properties of that
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type. OK, got you.
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So you guys were your notes were in default that you had on the
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properties. So did that guy lose a bunch of
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money? Then did you guys lose a bunch
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of? Money.
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Oh yeah, 1,000,000 millions. I mean it would be.
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I spent all the weight in O 9. I always joke around and I don't
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know, am I allowed to cuss on the show?
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Yeah, I joke around that it would be.
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I would have had a better time in O9 paying someone to come to
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my room and kick me in the nuts every morning to get back in bed
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than my life was because my wife had to become a REO agent.
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So she was busy all day showing houses.
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And at night I'd go evict people, trash out houses, paint
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houses, sell them, owner finance, get the down payment,
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run to the bank to catch up on the payments.
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Like it was, it was a struggle. And The thing is, I've seen some
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people go through this in this real estate cycle.
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Oh wait, I'm 30, right? I'm born in 78.
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So I turned 30 that year and 2728 and 29 I was on top of the
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world. I was.
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I mean, there were months I made $1,000,000 like we were crushing
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it. And by the way, that's like
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$1,000,000 in O7, not $1,000,000 today.
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And I had mentors and friends telling me slow down, son, Don't
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get over your skis. Slow down.
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This doesn't last forever. I'm like, old timer doesn't know
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what he's talking about, man. Like I'm Tim motherfucking
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harriage. Like, I got this.
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Yeah. I mean, it was humbling.
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I think we lost about $1,000,000 and when I say we, I don't mean
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like me and Blackstone or me and a big company like I mean like
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me and my wife and fourth quarter O 7 because the market
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actually crashed in August of O 7 and we had 38 vacant flips
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going at that time and all the subprime mortgages just
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evaporated. And so we were selling houses
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for 20, thirty $40,000 losses like crazy.
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I had one house. I it's illustrative of the
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situation. I bought it for 300 grand and I
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had it sold for 375 on an assignment to this guy.
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So I'm going to make 75K market The, the, the, the Lehman
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Brothers goes under the subprime loan.
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Stop trading. The guy calls, says you can keep
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my deposit. I'm out.
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I had a backup offer at like 345.
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I call him. I'm like, hey, you can have this
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and my by the way, I got the 5000 deposit so you can have it
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for 340. He's like, Nah, man, that
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market's dead. I'm out.
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I'm just like, come on, dude, like I get it.
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Like let's negotiate like what you want 320 He's like Tim,
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you're not listening. I'm out.
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So I arrogantly close on that house, spend fifty $60,000
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fixing it up and sell it for 270.
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So literally in a 90 day period that asset went from an easy 75K
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to 100K loss and that was the world I lived in for a year and
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a half. Everything I knew got turned
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upside down. How did you get through that?
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When your back's against the wall, you know you can either
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curl up or fight. And I mean, I'm a Marine, so
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obviously I should pick to fight.
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I, I don't know. I mean, most of my friends ended
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up getting divorced. Most of my friends ended up
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going bankrupt. I had some friends commit
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suicide during that time. People don't understand like how
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bad it was. Like, I mean, it was bad, but
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how do we get through it? Oh, and by the way, we had a kid
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in the 09 as well, so and my wife had cancer.
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So my wife had cancer. We went through the recession
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and had a kid all within a 12 month period.
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Yeah. How do we get through it?
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Like I think our marriage still has some of the scars from that
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time. We fought a lot, but she'd work
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her ass off during the day and I'd work my ass off at night and
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on weekends. And you just, you do what you
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have to do to get by. And I've just never been a tuck
15:28
and run kind of guy. So it's like there's a problem
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solved for the problem. You know?
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The beautiful thing is, though, it's made me a very resilient,
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confident businessman. And even more importantly, I say
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to my team all the time, like, no one's going to die.
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Like there's not an IED underneath that piece of paper.
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Like, just calm down. We're good.
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Solve the problem, solve the problem, solve the problem.
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That's all you can do in life and business.
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And so it's made me a much calmer leader because, I mean,
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I've been in situations where people die.
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I've been in situations where the market was collapsing.
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And so, like, the fact that a warehouse line doesn't fund a
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$200,000 loan and I got to wire the money from my personal
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account. Like it's just that's a small
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lift these days, Yeah. So when you, I'm trying to think
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of the the like trajectory of your events.
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So what were you doing when you partnered up with Blackstone?
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Yeah, so I was running the REI Expo and wholesaling houses and
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through the REI Expo I got introduced to the guy that runs
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the five Star conference in Dallas, which is like a the
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biggest nationwide default and Oreo conference there is.
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Back then they had five 6000 attendees.
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And through that event, Ed Delgado approached me.
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He's like, hey, I need you to speak and I want you to speak
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about the individual investor because this was in 13/20/13 and
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the hedge funds were getting all the attention, but the market
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was still 9596% mom and pop investors.
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So I spoke there and I presented a survey that was done by a
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Phoenix publisher named Andrew Wade called The Invaluable
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Investor. It was bankrolled by Home Depot
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and Home Investors. And I presented that.
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And the founder and CEO of Invitation Homes, Nick Gould,
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was in the audience and he was obviously had worked with
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Blackstone to start Invitation Homes and he was currently
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working with Blackstone to try to start a lending company.
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So he waits in line. I have to say it this way.
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And you know, because you're done speaking, people wait in
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line to talk to you. And he waits in line, comes up
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and he goes, so we're working on a project and we need your help.
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And I was like, oh, great, who are you?
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He's like, oh, invitation homes. And at that time, nobody really
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knew who IH was. We just called it Blackstone.
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I go, oh, invitation homes, what do you do?
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He goes, you know, Blackstone. And like when he said it, like
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every article I'd read about invitation homes and Blackstone
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buying houses, like, flew through the front of my mind.
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And I was like, oh, nice to meet you.
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How can I help? The next day, I'm in his office
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in a meeting. The next week, they fly me up to
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New York. Crazy, crazy story.
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Like they put you on a plane, they fly you in, they get you a
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car. You go up over to Park Ave. you
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go to the 43rd floor and it's like mahogany walls.
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And you sit down at this like 20 foot long table and there's
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analysts in every seat. And Nick puts me at the head of
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the table and Nick's next to me. And then here come the three
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important dudes, right? The senior managing directors
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and that stuff. It was Blitz, Hirsch and Jazz.
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And I'm sitting there and Nick's like, OK, tell him this.
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And I start talking. And he would, I was basically
18:45
his puppet. And he'd be like, OK, never
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mind, no, no for that, no, tell him this and OK, no tell him
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this. And like 5 minutes into it, mind
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you, they just flew me up there on AG 6 and 5 minutes into it
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blitz goes awesome man, great to meet you.
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Hope we work something out. I got to bounce.
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And he gets up and leaves. I'm like, what the hell is going
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on with this? Like I must be killing, I must
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be doing awful this. And Nick like keeps going.
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Tell him this, tell him this, tell him this.
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And then 5 minutes later Hirsch is like, hey man, nice to meet
19:14
you, got to go. I hope we work something out.
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And he leaves. I'm like, OK, we're we're
19:18
getting attrition here. 5 minutes later, Jazz is like, hey
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Tim, great to meet you. Hope we do something together.
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I got to bounce. So he leaves.
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I still got all these analysts around.
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And then Nick goes, OK, let's go and where am I going now?
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And we walk down the hall. He puts me in the elevator and
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he doesn't get in the elevator with me.
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He goes, OK, we'll be in touch. And like the doors close.
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I'm like, what the fuck was that?
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Like who flies you up here for a 20 minute meeting?
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Yeah. Long story short, two years
19:46
later, I was the one doing that. Like I would fly people in like,
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great. Yep, Yep.
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We got about, you know, anyway, so a couple weeks later they
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called me and they're like, Hey, write a job description of how
19:55
you can help us as a consultant and maybe you help run the
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thing. I'll write this job description
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and I'll pick a number out of my ass like because I don't know
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what like what blacks don't pay you a consultant?
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But it was, it was a lot that I picked because I thought why not
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swing for the fences? And I send it and I don't get
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anything back. I'm like God, I offended them.
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Like should I like counter myself?
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Like like 3 weeks later I get this contract in my e-mail from
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some dude I've never met. And the job description is
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verbatim what I typed in the e-mail.
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And the rate is exactly what I asked for.
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Because for these people, a couple 100 grand is nothing.
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And man, I started, we picked the name, we got the logo done,
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we went to market, I became the managing director.
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I ran it for two or three years and then decided I need to do a
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escape corporate life for a little bit, but held on to my
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equity for the IPO in 2021. You make it sound so easy.
20:51
So you were already a bit pretty big player then I'm assuming by
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the time BlackRock approached you with the Real Estate Expo in
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your wholesaling? Company at that point I probably
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bought 1000 houses. I mean, I've been number one in
21:02
the nation several years for home investors.
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I had, I think at that time I had 20 offices nationwide that
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were probably buying in aggregate 3 or 400 houses a year
21:18
that I was mentoring and supporting.
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But it's all like, I tell my kids this all the time.
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They want my destination, they don't want my journey.
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And it's all just a series of choices that start compounding.
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And like, how did I become the largest development agent at
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home Vesters? And which is the what?
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Where you have offices that are underneath you?
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When the thing came around, I was already a franchise and I
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said, that sounds cool. I didn't want to do it alone.
21:52
I called Mike Hambright and I was like, how about this, I got
21:56
this stage, I'll sell the franchises and you do the
22:00
support. I don't want to deal with these
22:02
dip shits and he's like love it because I don't want to go sell
22:05
on stage. So then I started the Ugly House
22:08
seminar and I just go around the nation and teach a 2 day seminar
22:12
and sell franchises. And then I picked the timing
22:16
right after I went to work with the Blackstone, we, I sold all
22:22
the offices and like the only one to exit out of that, like,
22:26
cuz it's just, the timing was right.
22:29
You know, it's just a series of choices.
22:31
And then when you get kicked in the teeth, like, I mean, you
22:35
just got a choice, right? Like stand back up or lay down.
22:37
And I'm just the guy that just keeps standing up.
22:41
Yeah. And I think having it sounds
22:42
like you had a pretty challenging childhood.
22:45
And I think a lot of those early traumatic experiences give us
22:50
that chip on our shoulder. That is honestly the greatest
22:53
gift that we could ever ask for because it gives us that that
22:56
drive, that relentless pursuit of excellence and how always
23:00
having to prove ourselves, always having to take care of
23:03
ourselves, always having to not ever rely on anybody else but
23:06
ourselves, right? And I think that's such a unique
23:09
gift and ability that a lot of the more entitled kids sometimes
23:14
lack a lot. And I'm when when I do these
23:16
podcasts and hear people's backgrounds, most of the most
23:18
successful people had pretty fucked up backgrounds.
23:20
They may not share it openly, but then we dig into it after,
23:24
you know, offline and they're pretty fucked up backgrounds.
23:26
So it's just interesting to see. And I think it is a great gift
23:30
and it can feel you if you can ultimately heal from that stuff
23:32
and not be operating from anger or resentment or anything
23:35
anymore, it serves its purpose. But then those skills you have
23:39
with you forever and you just don't give up.
23:41
You just keep going. You find a way.
23:42
And what were you driven as a kid?
23:47
Yeah, but probably more out of fear than anything else.
23:52
I always worked in construction. My stepdad built houses.
23:56
So I learned construction at an early age.
23:59
I mean, I had, I started my first business when I got my
24:01
driver's license. I would, I, I bought a trailer
24:04
and I would go pick up construction trash and go to the
24:07
dump and dump it, which was great because as a 16 year old
24:11
in Texas, you could load a trailer by noon, go dump it,
24:16
swing by the beer store, buy some beer, load half another
24:20
trailer, finish a case of beer. You made $300 that day and you
24:26
can do it again the next day. And like my buddy Cody and I,
24:30
that's what we did every day. We just split the money and
24:32
we're making, you know, 450 bucks a day and life was good.
24:37
You know, I, I, I loved sports and when I was in high school, I
24:40
wasn't necessarily great at it, but I did miss that sense of
24:46
being on a team. And I think that was part of the
24:48
reason I went to the Marine Corps.
24:50
I have always been driven. Now, whether or not it was
24:53
because of codependency or toxic childhood and all that other
24:58
stuff, I mean, you know, ask a different therapist.
25:00
They'll tell you something different every day.
25:03
But like, even in the Marine Corps, I got the Gung ho award.
25:06
I was meritoriously promoted. My love language is words of
25:10
affirmation. So if I'm in an environment
25:13
where achieving gets you attention, I tend to achieve.
25:16
So I get attention, right. And so, yeah, I guess I would
25:20
say I've always been driven. I, I just, God.
25:23
Have you read Dan Martel's book, Buy Back Your Time?
25:26
There's also part of it I have 100% accepted.
25:31
I am addicted to chaos. Like I thrive in chaos.
25:36
I was born into chaos. I was raised in chaos.
25:40
I went to the military in chaos and I went through chaos in the,
25:44
you know, 08/09. Like I thrive in chaos and I
25:48
tend to create chaos. So like, it's important to me
25:52
that it's, it's, it's actually really good for my company right
25:55
now. It probably won't be a year from
25:58
now and I'll probably have to replace myself as the CEO and
26:01
just step up to the board and get out of the day today because
26:05
there comes a point where the chaos is detrimental versus
26:10
beneficial. Yeah, yeah.
26:13
And you know, we, we get comfortable in chaos because
26:15
it's all we've ever known. And when things aren't chaotic,
26:17
we're like, something's wrong here.
26:19
How do we function with this? This can't be right.
26:22
Like something's coming to get me right Because.
26:24
Yeah. You guys are on Pacific Time or
26:26
whatever and I'm eating breakfast with Ron, my investor
26:30
and friend this morning and it, you know, it's 9/30, 10:00 and
26:36
it just hits me, it's already 2:00 almost on the East Coast.
26:40
And I had this overwhelming sense of fear like what am I not
26:44
taking care of? What is going wrong at the
26:47
office? I, no one's called me.
26:48
What's the problem? And I open my phone because I
26:51
have all my notifications turned off now.
26:53
Like I just had to finally like just cry uncle.
26:55
And I got this text from my assistant Michelle.
26:58
She's amazing. And it's I've sorted your
27:01
e-mail, everything's OK. And that was the first text I
27:04
read. And I literally just closed the
27:06
phone and put it back down like it was, it was a great feeling.
27:11
And I wasn't there 60 days ago. And I read that book cover to
27:16
cover in three days. And I was like, ah, we're
27:17
implementing this. And that's another thing that's
27:20
really fueled my success. There's no pride of ownership or
27:24
authorship. Like I will RIP off or copy
27:27
anything that I see work, right? Like the Millionaire Real Estate
27:30
Investor by Jay Papazon and Gary Keller talks about that, right?
27:34
Like you see a ladder that someone's already gone up and if
27:38
you can get on the 4th or 5th rung, why start on the first?
27:42
Like skip all that shit. So I read a book.
27:46
Makes sense to me. I'll implement it.
27:47
Like in a day. I was like texting pictures of
27:50
the e-mail folder tree set up. I'm like, yeah, make that
27:53
happen. And now it happens.
27:55
So like I, I don't even know. Let's guess.
27:58
I bet you I have less than 20 unread emails and I have not
28:01
looked at this phone in a while 0.
28:05
Yeah, that's amazing. I have my, my assistant
28:08
implement that as well. I as soon as I read that book, I
28:10
implemented and it was a game changer.
28:13
However, I'm starting to see emails creep back up because a
28:16
lot of them are, I don't know, very like intricate or deal
28:20
specific. And I'm trying to decide if
28:22
that's a limiting belief on my head of like, oh, I have to
28:24
handle. This, absolutely.
28:25
Is, yeah. Absolutely is if you're the
28:28
smartest person in your company, you've done this wrong.
28:32
So I now this was not in the book, but I did it.
28:36
I created a rule in Outlook that if I am not in the two line
28:41
myself individually, it gets immediately marked as read and
28:46
moved to ACC folder. And ain't gonna lie, there's
28:50
some days I feel left out, like I got to go check that CC folder
28:53
and see what's going on, right? But it's amazing.
28:56
Like it automatically leaves my inbox and what it's done is it's
29:02
made people really understand. Wait, if I need Tim's attention,
29:06
I'm going to have to ask him. I'm not he's not going to swoop
29:09
in and save me anymore because he's copied on everything, even
29:13
on the distribution list. Like so we've got to, you know,
29:15
we're fifty person company grown.
29:17
We'll be 100% company end of the year.
29:19
Like people start seeing people and you get into e-mail hell and
29:24
as the founder, CEO and and and overachiever, you start seeing
29:29
problems and you want to get involved.
29:31
So I would bet some of the stuff that you're seeing creep back in
29:34
is because you get involved and you fix everything for everyone.
29:38
And if you do it, nobody's getting fired, right?
29:40
You're right, if they do it, it's on.
29:42
Them it's mostly me watching to make sure that things get
29:46
followed up on, the clients get responded to that no balls are
29:49
getting dropped and all that stuff.
29:51
I'm like, I can't keep up with managing the whole company,
29:54
especially as we scale that everybody's doing everything and
29:57
following up with everything. So yeah, just putting in those
29:59
good systems in place. What?
30:00
What operating system do you run off of?
30:02
Like EOS or a certain operating system?
30:03
Or we do EOS. Right now, my CEO coach, I pay a
30:10
lot of people to give me advice. So I have a CEO coach.
30:13
His name is Jeff Tennyson. He was a partner at CEO Coaching
30:16
International. Oh yeah, I know.
30:18
Mark yeah. So Jeff's a partner there.
30:21
Jeff's taken a couple companies public in the space I operated
30:25
in. We work together at Blackstone.
30:27
So he's my CEO coach and they have their own system that's
30:32
based on like OK, ours it's like objectives and something
30:37
something same as a rock and EOS.
30:40
So we've done EOS for over a year now.
30:42
We have our final meeting on September 23rd and then we're
30:47
going to move off of EOS and onto more of a corporate system
30:51
with CEO Coaching International starting in October.
30:55
Awesome. And what has I mean, because you
30:58
started, when did you launch Ternus?
31:01
January of 2024. January 2024.
31:04
OK, so you're 19 months, pretty new company.
31:06
Yeah. So what, you already have 50
31:09
people? Yeah.
31:11
So how did you, I mean, obviously you had an exit and
31:13
all these big things. So it it wasn't like it, it's a
31:16
startup, but it's not your first startup.
31:18
You've done this many times over.
31:20
So what were like the most key decisions that you made early on
31:24
to start to scale so quickly? Like who did you hire?
31:27
How did you, did you hire from the top down or from the bottom
31:30
up? Like, did you just start hiring
31:31
loan originators because you guys do something different than
31:33
us because we finance commercial real estate and we will broker
31:36
loans to you on the residential side.
31:38
But you guys are actually like raising capital and funding your
31:40
own deals and have your own underwriting guidelines and all
31:42
that where we're out just finding the best capital for
31:45
that particular deal. But yeah, I guess who are those
31:48
key hires when you made right away?
31:49
And then how did you start to scale to get to 50 so quickly?
31:52
So after all the mistakes I've made in 24 years of business,
31:55
what I learned was too many times we start with the business
31:59
plan that is in Microsoft Word and we don't start with a
32:03
business model in Microsoft Excel.
32:06
So we created and I learned this when I worked with Blackstone.
32:10
It's known as a variable input model.
32:13
And a variable input model is a tool you can use to say, OK, my
32:19
assumption is 1 loan officer for every 5 loans.
32:22
My assumption is 1 processor for every 25 loans.
32:25
My assumption is 1 underwriter for every 25 loans.
32:28
And, and, and you start breaking it down capacity and then you
32:32
build this org chart that's based on volume.
32:34
So to answer your question, in January and February of 2024, I
32:41
was the only employee. I was the originator, I was the
32:45
processor, I was the underwriter, I was the closer, I
32:47
was the doc prep reviewer, I was the wire sender.
32:50
And I did it like that very importantly because I started to
32:53
build out the ethos of we loan the way you buy.
32:58
And since I've bought more houses than almost anybody you
33:00
ever meet, I wanted to make sure that the processes I built met
33:06
the customer expectations and the ethos of the company.
33:09
So then the next hire was a salesperson, the next hire was
33:12
an OPS person, the next hire was an OPS person because typically
33:17
in mortgage origination shops, you've got a 2 to one operations
33:21
to sales ratio and we're holding pretty true to that today.
33:26
But then the rest was in the model.
33:27
So like VP of sales came 4-5 months later, VP of OPS came 4-5
33:34
months later. Like it was like hire the doers
33:37
and then look for the chiefs. And that's what led me to
33:40
headquartering the company in Charlotte because I live in
33:43
Dallas. But the mortgage market is
33:46
really suffering right now. And Charlotte is the banking
33:49
capital of America. And there's a lot of mortgage
33:52
talent there that is or was unemployed last year.
33:56
Or if they were employed, they were being told every day you're
34:00
lucky to have a job. No, you're not getting a bonus.
34:03
You're just lucky the company stayed in business.
34:05
It was like very flat. And then Tim Harris comes down
34:08
like, holy shit, we're going to quadruple in volume.
34:11
We're going to make a bunch of money.
34:12
We're going to change the lending space.
34:13
And they're like, I want to work for this guy.
34:16
So that's where I hired my Chief revenue officer who I'd worked
34:19
with the Blackstone as well. I hired my chief operating
34:22
officer, which he referred like, and then you just start this
34:25
referral thing and now we got a line of people that want to come
34:28
work for us. That's awesome.
34:29
And so are they are going to the office every day then and you
34:31
don't or do is it remote? Sore subject.
34:35
We have an office, a really nice office, 6200 square feet, lots
34:38
of cubes. You know, I buy people lunch and
34:40
all that. Now we're in the office two or
34:42
three days a week. We've got a small Regis suite in
34:46
Dallas. I've got a couple people kind of
34:48
legacy hires still there. And my brother works for me
34:51
because he used to buy houses for me and run all my
34:54
construction. So I was like, dude, I need you
34:57
to come work for me for at least a year because he wholesalers
35:00
and stuff too. But so he does my draw reviews.
35:03
So like there's no human being on the face of this earth that's
35:06
going to protect me like him. And while like when you think
35:11
about business, you think about ways you could lose money or get
35:13
stolen from like that draw department.
35:15
I mean, like today we've got like 1.6 million in trust funds
35:20
just sitting there. Like by this time next year,
35:23
that'll be twenty $30 million in cash just sitting there and the
35:27
people could steal from you there.
35:28
And like like to have my brother kind of in charge of that.
35:30
Like I sleep good at night. Not scalable, but I'm going to
35:34
figure that out the next. But no, almost every hire was in
35:38
this model before I even incorporated the company.
35:42
Like I think a variable input model is something people need
35:46
to plan their businesses with because then you start building
35:49
sensitivity tables and where people screw up is like, oh, I'm
35:53
going to get to 100 loans a month.
35:55
Well, are you, what staff do you need to close 100 loans with
36:02
good customer service, right. And what's your ramp up
36:07
timeline? What's the training process,
36:09
right? So if you need 5 active
36:10
processors to close 100 loans in December, you have to hire them
36:14
in August. And people don't realize that
36:16
they don't plan for it so. They wait till they need it and
36:20
it's too late by that. It's too late now.
36:21
You have poor customer performance, or you have to
36:24
customer service, or you pull a sales guy or gal out of
36:27
production to service the customer and now you're not
36:30
producing. So 3060 days later their
36:33
pipeline's dead, right? Like so literally that example I
36:37
just gave you is I am very confident we will be at 100
36:41
loans a month by December. So yesterday I did a new hire
36:45
orientation where there were four new processors.
36:48
Like we're very committed to that model.
36:51
Like and, and, and then if we don't hit our numbers, you
36:54
either delay hiring or you hold people accountable.
36:58
And like Brian, my VP or Chief Revenue Officer, I mean, he
37:02
knows he's accountable for that loan volume now, Right now he's
37:06
out kicking his coverage and means I'm scrambling around for
37:09
money a lot, which is fine because we fund our own loans.
37:13
But yeah, it's that model drives the hiring and it's it's
37:19
performance based, right. So it's not only timeline based
37:23
like and you build in once we get to X number of this then we
37:28
hire Y number of these so that if we continue that growth rate
37:32
we can support it, you know four or five months down the road.
37:36
Are you using working with recruiting firms to hire all
37:38
these staff or through network? So for about the last year,
37:43
there's a company met through the boardroom called Team
37:46
Architects. Steve Richards runs that.
37:48
You probably know him from family and Mastermind.
37:52
They do most of our recruiting. But now we have an applicant
37:57
tracking system embedded into our web page, and we're getting
38:01
a good enough reputation in Charlotte that we're getting
38:06
1520 applications a week organically.
38:09
Wow, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
38:11
Well, so one of the things I so here's a, so number one, we sell
38:16
stock in our company to general public on a crowdfunding thing.
38:19
So if somebody wants to invest, they can buy $1000 worth of
38:22
stock and it's a dollar a share. But also what I did is I created
38:26
an employee stock option program like a true ESOP.
38:30
So we earmarked 20% of our company for the employees.
38:35
And so when you come work for us, I give you ownership in the
38:38
platform, I give you great medical benefits.
38:43
I do 4O1K matching up to 4%. And I think I do like 21 days a
38:49
year and paid time off. I mean, it's, it's very
38:52
important to me to take care of my people because I know I'm
38:56
going to ask a lot out of them, right?
38:58
And I need to make sure that they're well paid, that the
39:02
benefits are good, that they're building a nest egg for their
39:05
future and that they have the resources they need If they get
39:08
too stressed, too stressed out to, you know, take some time
39:10
off. Are you are most of your
39:13
employees with your model salary plus bonus or just salary?
39:17
So the sales folks in the processing folks are salary plus
39:24
Commission or incentive, everyone else's salary and
39:28
bonus. Yeah, we have a very large
39:30
payroll. Yeah, that's one thing nice
39:33
about my company is it's mostly Commission positions.
39:36
I mean, obviously as we scale, I need more leadership and
39:38
executives and management. Those will be more salary.
39:41
But for now, it's mostly Commission.
39:44
Look, I mean, it takes a big stomach to build a big company.
39:47
I mean, I lost 2 million in the first year.
39:49
I'm down about 4 million this year.
39:51
With Turnus and what what? Where'd most of that go?
39:56
We're building our own technology.
39:57
It's super exciting with the things with AI.
40:00
Like we're building a mobile app right now where when you want a
40:03
loan on a house, you can just like click locate me.
40:06
It'll pull in the tax rolls of the house you're at.
40:09
It'll Geo tag all the pictures and you go around and take
40:11
pictures and we'll have an AI engine built into that that
40:14
analyzes the pictures and analyzes the scope of work and
40:16
analyze the comps and analyzes. You'll sync with Plaid that way.
40:20
We have your bank information. And your background and your
40:23
credit like instant and like we're driving towards a 5 minute
40:28
pre approval, a 5 minute approval, all technology driven.
40:34
Badass. And then if I do that right, my
40:37
Nirvana is in, in Sanjay, my VP of technology says we can get
40:41
this done by the end of next year is when you need to draw on
40:44
that hard money loan. You just take that same app.
40:47
You click, you go to the line item on the budget that's
40:50
already in the thingy and you click on that and says, please
40:53
take a picture. Take a picture of the cabinets
40:55
with the granite countertops and the tile backsplash and the
40:58
range and the plumbing fixtures and all that.
41:01
It Geo tags and date stamps and so it knows exactly where you're
41:05
at. And then AI will look at the
41:09
picture and I see this world where if it's a 95% confidence
41:15
score of that the kitchen cabinets and granite countertops
41:18
and backsplash and appliances are in and they hit submit, I
41:22
want the next screen to say ACH is on the way.
41:26
Like that's. And the beautiful thing is it's
41:29
one of the reasons I started it in this down market.
41:32
If I can build this now, when the market gets better in a year
41:35
or two and rates start to drop our growth curve, we're already
41:40
growing 65% quarter over quarter.
41:42
We'll get TO120130150 percent quarter over quarter and that
41:46
makes us a really ripe acquisition target for someone.
41:50
And with the technology that we're building this proprietary,
41:53
so you know loan origination systems as a lender is very
41:56
difficult thing. So we started off with this one
41:59
company, but by the by December 31st, we'll be 100% into our own
42:04
proprietary Los, fully automated AI engines, everything.
42:10
Like I even have things now where this is so cool.
42:14
If the salesperson's on the phone with Hannah Hammond and
42:18
they're talking about DSCR and a salesperson hasn't asked you
42:21
what your credit score is yet, like 3 minutes into the call,
42:25
it'll pop up on the screen and say, hey, Tim, don't forget to
42:28
ask for the credit score. All AI driven, live call
42:32
listening. Amazing.
42:34
And so you're obviously building to sell.
42:37
What is your timeline that you would like to sell?
42:39
So we're actively selling securities.
42:43
All investment is a risk. You should go to
42:46
ourwebpageinvest.turnus.com and read all the disclosures.
42:49
Most likely you'll lose all your money if you ever invest with
42:52
us. That said, the idea everything I
42:57
do is intentional. I'm 47 right now, I turn 50 in
43:03
2028 and my last child will graduate high school in May of
43:09
28. It would be the best birthday
43:13
present in the world when I turn 50 and become an empty nester
43:19
that I've exited this company all or in part, you know, maybe
43:23
a, a merger with a good earn out where I could just step up and
43:26
take a board seat and not have to do the day-to-day.
43:29
But you know, we're raising money right now to $55 million
43:34
post money valuation. Are you guys an open-ended fund
43:40
or? Closed on our cash flow fund,
43:41
it's open-ended on the crowdfunding, it's closed.
43:44
It closes January 26th. Only have a year to do it from
43:48
when you file the initial Form C, but we'll raise more money
43:52
next year through the through a reggae probably at $100 million
43:57
evaluation. And then I've seen sale comps of
44:01
businesses in this space that I should be able to support and
44:05
maintain $150 million evaluation by 2028, maybe 2027.
44:10
What for the debt fund space? What are common EBITDA
44:14
multiples? Or is it based off revenue or
44:16
what? How are they valued?
44:17
Well, the debt funds not valued in anything because it's but the
44:22
platform, the origination platform it's kind of book times
44:26
2 plus a premium based off of either projected growth and
44:33
technology. So I imagine.
44:37
Are you talking revenue or EBITDA times 2?
44:40
The last couple were one month origination.
44:44
So if you're doing 150 million a month, you would get 150 million
44:49
valuation at the start. So basically your active loan
44:52
book and then you start getting multiples on EBITDA and then you
44:58
get technology you you get premiums on EBITDA and then
45:02
multiples on technology. So if I had to guess, we should
45:09
be able to get at least EBITDA times 5?
45:13
With technology. Yeah, if, if we do it right, it
45:18
could be 10 that. 'D be amazing yeah I always
45:20
wonder that too is like who who is your end buyer right because
45:23
if it's such a massive company they they do they care about the
45:26
technology piece I I I question myself with that with my own
45:30
company is like is it worth building technology because what
45:33
if I sell to CBRE they don't give a shit about my technology
45:36
they have their own technology they don't care they just want
45:38
the book a business right so that's one thing I'm trying to
45:41
explore right now and is like you know if you are planning on
45:46
selling at some point in the future which I don't know if I
45:48
would I just like to learn all these different things of all
45:50
the different avenues but yeah what what is the right direction
45:54
the right thing to focus on because who is the end buyer and
45:57
what do they want yeah. I think you're right.
46:01
If I was planning to sell to Chiavi, the technology wouldn't
46:06
matter. The only way I ever sell to
46:08
someone like Chiavi is if they start to see pursue perceive me
46:12
as a threat to their market share.
46:14
And I mean, honestly, that's like the best case scenario
46:17
because then I kind of become Instagram the way Facebook
46:21
bought them out to keep them from taking their market share,
46:23
right? That would be a much higher
46:25
premium because they just kind of want to shut you down and
46:27
stop you. You know, I see there's a lot of
46:31
wholesale lenders out there that I think would like to add a
46:34
retail origination platform. There's a lot of large capital
46:41
funds that are buying notes that would like to have an
46:44
origination platform. I kind of have a cheat code in
46:47
that I knew rates wouldn't drop last year or this year and I
46:51
knew they would start to drop later this year.
46:53
And I knew by next spring we'll be in a re refi boom for DSCR.
46:59
So I'm building a rate table lender that we won't be the
47:01
largest DSCR lender in Q1 next year, but we'll be one of the
47:05
top five in the nation. I have no doubt because it's
47:08
just going to be a Bank rate style retail.
47:11
What sets you guys apart from all the other DSCR lenders out
47:14
there? We're fast.
47:15
I mean, I'm closing DSCR in 10 days.
47:19
We're fast and we're transparent.
47:21
And the other thing is we're really good at marketing.
47:26
My marketing team is world class and like the amount of leads
47:33
we're generating is. Are you doing paid ads?
47:37
Because every time I've tried to have my marketing people run ads
47:40
on Facebook and Instagram, it shuts them down because he he
47:44
says you can't advertise finance or something.
47:46
It's like a nightmare. So like, how are you doing paid
47:48
ads? I'm.
47:49
Hiring people that are really good at it.
47:51
I'll introduce you. Thank you.
47:53
I need some good people because clearly.
47:54
There's a company called Lender Lift that's doing a great job
47:57
for us. But then also Robert Greenberg,
48:00
I worked with him at Blackstone and he's been in marketing for
48:04
40 years and he just loves marketing technology and
48:08
marketing automation. He's spoken at the Salesforce
48:11
Dreamforce conference. I mean, he's an old guy, but not
48:16
like stuck in his ways. Like he embraces all new
48:18
technologies. I mean, Google paid ads,
48:22
Facebook, Instagram are great lead generators for us.
48:26
We've got a bunch of strategic partners.
48:28
I mean, Robert Winsley, who we're going to hang out with
48:31
later, you know, we're, we're there, we're there preferred
48:34
lender now. I mean, investor lift is sitting
48:36
US 100 leads a week. Geez, yeah, that's insane.
48:39
Yeah, that's awesome. So then once you dial in your
48:41
marketing in that production environment, once you get into a
48:45
declining rate environment, so like right now when we sell a
48:47
DSR loan, we may make 200 basis points of margin.
48:50
When you're in a declining rate environment, you start making
48:53
8900 basis points in margin. She gets really good really
48:57
fast. Yeah.
48:58
You, you mentioned that you guys will lend at 100% loan to value
49:01
and you, you'll, you know, you'll lever the capital that
49:05
you raise in order to be able to increase your leverage and
49:07
deploy more loans, originate more loans, deploy more capital.
49:11
How the hell do you do that and sleep at night?
49:13
Like I cuz when I was starting my debt fund, I was, you know, I
49:17
met one of the Co founders of Kiavi and RCN and all these
49:20
other people and I was just like, I don't understand how
49:24
this is possible with like if there's any adjustment in the
49:28
market, don't you lose it all? Like, so can you walk me through
49:31
where I know we have to finish up here, but no, you're good.
49:33
Yeah. Like how do you do that?
49:34
How do you protect yourself? And your investors, The first is
49:38
with leverage exposure. So I'd never go above 70% of the
49:42
ARV. So if it's a $300,000 house,
49:45
you're never getting a loan above 210,000 for me.
49:48
And then we back out the rehab. So if someone is good at buying
49:52
houses and say that $300,000 house they buy it for 1:50 and
49:57
it needs 60 and work, I'll loan them the whole 150 and the whole
50:00
60. Now they still have to pay their
50:03
points and fees and stuff at closing.
50:04
But I care more about the leverage the the the LTV of ARV
50:11
then I care about the loan to cost.
50:14
Yeah, the loan to purchase price of the loan to cost, yeah then
50:17
then you're just basing it off their track record and.
50:19
And no, not even that we loaned a newbies.
50:22
But how did? But what if they just take the
50:25
money and run? Because that's happened to me
50:27
before. Well, they don't get the rehab
50:28
till they complete it, right. So that's.
50:30
So they have to front the rehab and then they get a drawback
50:33
out. Yeah.
50:34
And so we verify their liquidity and we make sure they have 10%
50:36
of the rehab budget so they can get it started.
50:38
And we make sure they have six months worth of interest
50:41
payments in the bank because that's my assurance that they're
50:45
going to be able to service the debt and start the rehab.
50:48
And I'm going to give them the rest of the money if they use,
50:51
we have a great partnership with offer Pad renovations.
50:54
And if they'll use offer pad, we pay offer pad direct, they're
50:58
half down and then we pay them the final payment.
51:01
So literally we've got customers right now that are turnkey
51:04
flipping houses in less than 30 days.
51:07
And they don't even have to write a check.
51:08
Like we just we send the offer, pad the money.
51:13
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So easy, yeah, but a lot of it,
51:16
Hannah, is it's just an asset based focus.
51:20
Like we don't get ourselves tripped up about worst case
51:25
scenario because worst case scenario I got a 70 LTV house
51:30
that I can just keep. I mean.
51:32
Yeah, well, I guess worst case scenario is 2008 happens again.
51:36
And even then, houses didn't go down by 30%.
51:39
They did not in a lot of places, yeah.
51:43
But they didn't immediately. And so that's another thing we
51:46
do is we only do 6 month loans, so.
51:49
Yeah, you're turning it fast. We're not.
51:51
We're not looking to loan money to people that are dip shits
51:54
that aren't going to get in, get out and get on with their life
51:59
and they'll never be another 2008.
52:02
You don't think that I was going to ask you what's your outlook
52:04
on the, the real estate market and economy as a whole over the?
52:07
Next, 173% of counties in America are declining in median
52:12
home price right now, which is a good thing.
52:17
We're about to have some rate cuts.
52:19
The DSCR loan loan interest rate is driven primarily by the five
52:26
year Treasury. The 30 year mortgage is driven
52:29
primarily by the 10 year for residential.
52:32
The 10 years coming in, the five years coming in just with the
52:36
rate reduction forecast, we need another five to seven years for
52:41
all that silliness of 2020 and 2021 to get all the way out of
52:46
the market. We need some house values to
52:48
come down. We need inflation to come down.
52:51
We need cost of goods to come down.
52:53
We actually need deflation and what we're dealing with right
53:00
now is stagflation and that's the worst possible because we're
53:04
now you get wage price spirals. So I don't know.
53:07
I mean like what I want to happen would be we should like
53:10
literally stay exact job markets doing great.
53:13
Inflation's reacting properly. It, it, it, you should stay
53:16
where you're at, but we're not going to.
53:18
So I, I don't think rates go as low as they did last time.
53:22
But you know, I think, you know, the next two or three years will
53:24
be really good. And then by then housing should
53:27
be really unaffordable and you should have another
53:29
affordability crisis. And you're going to see 40 and
53:34
50 year mortgages that are just the standard norm.
53:37
I mean, I was telling the story yesterday to someone.
53:41
Are you a millionaire yet? Do you remember the day you
53:44
figured it out that you were me too, and I don't know if you're
53:47
there yet. I remember the day I realized I
53:49
was worth $10 million Like I every October, I do the property
53:53
spreadsheet thing for the bank and everything and I'm just
53:57
adding shit up. And you know, that final sell
54:01
down at the bottom of the Excel thing, You're like, holy shit.
54:04
Like I'm running down the hall, Jennifer, we're worth $10
54:08
million. Like, you know, and it's just so
54:10
funny that 2nd 9 was so much easier than the first one.
54:15
And now I'm blessed that I get to play the IRR game because I
54:22
mean, let's just say when I'm 50, I have $50 million.
54:25
Like we'll just Fast forward a couple years.
54:27
Well, if I find some 20 IRR investments where I could like
54:32
help them get started and build their net worth and you know,
54:34
obviously win with them, give them all the capital they need,
54:38
give them my resources, give them my experience.
54:40
But you know, then you can do that from anywhere in the world,
54:42
like on Zoom. Yeah, yeah, I want to be a
54:45
billionaire too. I'm going to be a billionaire
54:46
too. So it's fun.
54:48
I just love the game. And I want to have such a great
54:50
impact on others in the world. And I know I've been given a
54:53
gift and I'm very passionate about what I do.
54:56
And I have very good intentions behind everything that I do.
54:58
And I want to, I know I've been put on this earth to serve other
55:02
people and help other people. And the more wealth I can create
55:04
for myself and the more passive income I can create for myself,
55:06
that's the more that I can give to the world and teach
55:08
entrepreneurship and mentorship and emotional intelligence and
55:12
healing from trauma and pain. And like all these things that a
55:16
lot of people just don't have, we're not, they're not taught in
55:18
school, you know, And so I think it's an exciting game and I, I
55:22
love to see people like you who are so passionate about it.
55:24
They're not just grinding miserable, suffering people like
55:28
you were actually. I went out and partied with some
55:30
friends last night and I got up this morning.
55:33
I've done a couple podcast, I've taken care of emails and
55:36
meetings and we're going to have a happy hour later and then I'm
55:39
going to fly home, have dinner with my kid, getting ready for
55:43
Friday Night Lights tomorrow. And but you know, tomorrow by
55:46
3:00, I won't read another single fucking e-mail till
55:48
Saturday because I'm on the tunnel crew.
55:51
You know what the tunnel crew is?
55:52
They blow up the tunnel the kids run through.
55:54
So I get sideline passes. So like I go down and blow up
55:58
the tunnel and I got to get to high 5 my kid as he goes onto
56:00
the field and I get to hang out on the sideline and my wife's
56:03
like, well, you just going to leave me up in the stands?
56:05
I'm like, absolutely. Like I'm down here to watch
56:07
football. I'm not here to talk like.
56:09
And so it's that work hard, play hard.
56:12
And and you know what, I know for a fact that I'm not watching
56:16
my e-mail today. I'm not going to be really
56:18
watching it tomorrow and I'll have to put in some hours on
56:22
Saturday. I've got a couple tax returns on
56:23
some entities I own to finish up that just need my review.
56:26
They're done. But you know, you can't just say
56:29
yes, you got to read it. We'll hang out in the backyard
56:32
and grill and cook out and watch football and have fun and then,
56:38
boy, the next four days. This is to your point, I got a
56:42
ton to do on Tuesday and then the boardroom starts in Dallas
56:45
on Wednesday and asked, and then again I'm Thursday and then
56:50
again on Friday. And then Friday I got to leave
56:52
and like get my ass to the Friday Night Football.
56:55
So I don't even get to stay for the whole thing.
56:57
And I'm on the board of directors.
56:58
So it's like, Eddie's like, come on, dude.
57:00
And I was like, it's football, man.
57:01
Like we're done. But yeah, then I'll go dove
57:05
hunting on Saturday and Sunday and I'll unplug and get off the
57:09
grid. And that recharges me, being in
57:11
nature and like harvesting what you eat, like it.
57:15
It's just part of who I am. And then, you know, God, the
57:18
next week I'm in Charlotte Monday, Tuesday, then I got an
57:21
event in Dallas on Wednesday with Justin Colby.
57:24
And then I got. It's not exhausting.
57:26
Yeah, it's exhausting, but I love it.
57:27
It's so fun. And I recharge and I do the fun
57:30
things. And it's not just all, you know,
57:33
computer e-mail work that wants to make you want to blow your
57:35
brains out like it's this. It's connection, it's
57:38
communication, it's speaking, it's podcasting, it's creating,
57:41
it's being a visionary. It's going out on your own and
57:43
thinking about the vision of your company.
57:44
It's like all these things that just excite me so much.
57:47
I just, I couldn't stop if you paid me to stop, you know, I
57:50
have to do it. Well, that's what I learned in
57:52
my first retirement was, you know, they always say you are
57:56
the average of the five people you spend the most time with.
57:58
And no, not it got to where all my time was spent with my wife,
58:04
my two children and like a contractor or two.
58:08
And it just wasn't intellectually stimulating,
58:12
right? I mean, because my wife's a
58:13
brilliant woman, but like, we don't talk about business.
58:16
We talk about personal shit. There's actually a couple
58:21
friends of mine here in Scottsdale that want to come.
58:24
I told him I was doing a happy hour with you and they follow
58:26
you and like you're an inspiration to them because they
58:30
see this young attractive woman that is, is like, no, no, no,
58:34
I'm playing in that space. And anyone that says I'm not
58:37
welcome, I'll just run them the fuck over.
58:40
That's right. And like, I think we need more
58:43
women like that. And I think, you know, we need
58:46
more men that are willing to be like, just be a savage and just
58:50
admit that you're a savage. Like I love that about America.
58:53
Like, no, no, no, like we can crush this shit.
58:56
Like, and it's there's not a problem with you want to be a
58:59
billionaire. I want to be a billionaire.
59:01
Let's make billions together. And, you know, fucking start
59:05
investing and find a find a way to make 10 billion.
59:08
I don't know, I mean, like, that's the fun shit, right?
59:11
Exactly. I'm happy you joined the
59:12
boardroom because that's a quarterly party that you're
59:15
guaranteed to get. I'm excited.
59:17
I'm not going to be in Dallas, but I'll be in Cabo, Jamaica,
59:19
San Diego and they don't next year.
59:23
But anyway, I'm excited. Well.
59:24
Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on.