Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / You Can’t Out-Tough Addiction | Eric Metcalf’s Journey Through Recovery – Part 1 | Episode 33
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar: There are people who rebuild their lives once, and then there are people who seem to be asked to rebuild over and over again. Our guest today has experienced addiction, military service, trauma, recovery, professional success, devastating loss, relapse, and moments where almost everything he had built disappeared. But somewhere along the way, something remarkable happened. The man who once needed someone to come looking for him became the man willing to go look for somebody else. And today he has dedicated his life to helping people who may still be standing in their own darkness find a way forward. This is a story about addiction and recovery. But I think it's really a story about a much bigger question. Who am I after everything I've been through? Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill. Real conversations about burnout, rebuilding, resilience, and becoming stronger than before. Marc Rogala: And Kelsey Dunbar: I'm Kelsey Dunbar. Marc Rogala: I'm Marc Rogala. Kelsey Dunbar: And today we are joined by Eric Metcalf. Eric is an Army veteran, an addict in recovery, a husband, an advocate, and currently serves as director of peer workforce development at NAMI DuPage. He's also preparing to release his book, Beyond the Shadows: A Search for Me. A story inspired by true events that explores trauma, addiction, mental health, grief, healing, identity, and that complicated road towards understanding yourself. Eric, thank you so much for trusting us with your story and welcome to Rebuild and Fulfill. Eric Metcalf: Thank you. Thank you, Kelsey. I appreciate you having me and thank you, Marc. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, we're honored. we were just telling Eric we have been trying to get him on for a while. We've Marc has worked with him and I met him several months ago when we first started Suffer to Tougher, and I've been so excited at the prospect of of bringing him on. He's got such an amazing story. So, Eric, I've had somewhat of an unusual opportunity preparing for this interview because I've spent quite a bit of time inside a book people haven't even had the chance to read yet. And there's a question underneath almost everything in it. Who am I? So rather than starting with your resume, which would be your military service, your addiction, your recovery, or even NAMI, I want to start with the man sitting in front of us today. Eric Metcalf, who are you today? And how different is that answer from the one you might have given ten or twenty years ago? Eric Metcalf: Wow, very, very good question, Kelsey. Who am I? First and foremost, I'm a child of God. My faith is everything to me. That is something that I lost. I lost that during my, well, some of the ups and downs, some of the things that life will throw you that come unexpectedly, like the loss of a late wife. So first and foremost, I would say I'm a child of God. I'm, you know, I'm not perfect. I would look at me as a person who is continually evolving. There's always this evolution. So once I say something like an absolute, well, I don't do that because that's just not my makeup. I don't want to go do this particular workout because I never liked to run. I don't want to do this. I'm always challenging myself to become more. So it's an evolution. It's a perpetual. evolution where I'm constantly developing, constantly evolving. And as soon as I'll say, well, I'll never do that. You know what? Somehow that's what I end up doing. Like I remember at one time I said, I would never work with the adolescent. I would never work with young people because I don't have the patience. I'm not going to work with young people. They're going to mild off. I'm going to mild the back and we're going to have a problem. And so. Lo and behold, one of my positions was working with young people, 18 to 28 years of age who were homeless. So I try to be careful on saying who I'm not, but saying that I'm open to whatever it is that God has put it in my path. Kelsey Dunbar: I asked that question because it becomes even more interesting when we look at the beginning of Beyond the Shadows. So Caleb enters treatment, having been taught his entire life that you fight, you get Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: knocked down, you get back up, and you don't quit. Then he reaches this point where he says something that seems to violate everything he's been taught. I give up. But reading it, I didn't see someone giving up on life. I saw someone finally giving up on the idea that he could keep doing things the same way and somehow get a different result. What did you have to learn about the difference between giving up on yourself and surrendering enough to finally accept help? Eric Metcalf: Mmm, you know the I always like to use the illustration as I'm describing What I went through is God basically putting me in a headlock Do you hear me now? Do you hear me now and for whatever reason I had a very hard head So I wanted to do things my particular way my ego my ego trumped everything EGO easing God out basically everything I did was all about self and self-gratification and not understanding that true life is sacrifice. True life is really giving for others. It's less of you and more of others. And then somehow it works. Marc Rogala: Obviously. Eric Metcalf: It's the secret sauce of everything. So the more I decided to, okay, let me stop holding on to this person, this facade of who I think I am. And let me yield over to the unknown, which is scary. It's scary as all outdoor. It's very scary because now I'll pinch myself and say, I don't even recognize me anymore because I've opened myself up to be this whole new being, you know, and to live to my fullest. I like to use the word optimum. I'm at my optimum mental performance right now. I would have to say the healthiest I've been in my entire life, mentally, physically, and spiritually. There's that alignment. Optimum wouldn't be the ideal point. Not optimal, but optimum. That's where I feel I'm at now. And I do look at it as just like an athlete with performance, right? An athlete practice, practice. They want to get their time up for their 40 yard dash. They're going to practice. They're going to practice sprints. They're going to put the parachute behind them. They're going to have resistance. They're going to have to really have friction in order to break through those barriers, those sometimes even self-inflicted or self inner dialogue barriers that what you can't do. So I've decided to basically just yield over completely to acceptance, subtract a little bit of that perfection, and then I'll have progression. As long as I'm not setting the bar at this totally grandiose place that I know I can achieve, but I keep tacking wins, another win, another win, another win, and then I see that I'm progressing. Marc Rogala: I have a question for Eric, but before I actually ask that question, I gotta get this in Kelsey. So everybody knows That I'm very active with NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, the DuPage County chapter, which is in the western suburbs of Chicago. I started working with them or volunteering with them, I should say, about a year into recovery. And it was shortly after I started volunteering for them, is when Eric was introduced to his role that he's in right now. And I remember the very first time that Eric spoke. And I remember sitting there listening to him and listening to a story and listening to the way he portrays himself. And I just remember thinking to myself, just like I thought when I was in the hospital listening to that gentleman from Nami tell his story, this dude freaking gets it. This dude's real, raw, authentic, and he cares about people. And I knew from the very first time that I heard Eric speak, he was gonna but be my recovery brother, and he's been ever since. So thank you, Eric, for all the service and all the work that you do in the community because you do a lot. A lot. Eric Metcalf: Thank you. Thank you brother. Marc is my battle buddy. We've been to meetings together. We talk about working. I mean, from early on, Marc, you, you, Marc had focus and that's what it takes to really, really, I guess, bridge the gap. You have to have discipline and I'll speak for me. I have to have discipline. I have to have focus. It's not easy getting up in the morning. I mean, right now, if you could see my desk, I have a candle lit. I'm in the air. I'm in the calm corner, right? This is a lifestyle for me. It's not a fad. It's not something, I wake up and it has to become habitual as a lifestyle. You know, my spirituality, I have my cup of coffee. I'm just coming off a birthday weekend and I'm not hung over. That right there is a win. It goes in a win column, right? And if I don't keep, you know, an accounting of the wins, even small wins that some people may think, well, that's no big deal. I wake up without a hangover all the time. Well, that's not my life. That was not my experience. No, not for a birthday, especially my 60th birthday. I'm supposed to go out with a bang, right? I was supposed to get turned up and that didn't happen. And that right there is a win for me just to wake up today and be with you all at 7 a.m. in the morning, talking about recovery, talking about positivity, you know, no beer bottles, no bunch of trash, not in a hotel room. but in my full faculties, I'm lucid, I can think, I can conversate. That's a huge win because I've had many birthdays that, to be honest, it's just a blur. They came, they went, and a whole ton of money was spent. And I don't have no accounting for where it went. So, you know, that's not something I wanna do today. I wanna be totally, totally different as far as how I see life, how I move through life. And a lot of it is how I respond to situations. Marc Rogala: No doubt. And honestly, we couldn't have planned this better because my question is about discipline. And I don't think you knew the I don't think you knew the question prior. So you're obviously a very disciplined guy with the military experience, and then I know the Eric now, and you're about as disciplined as an individual that I've probably the most disciplined dude that I've ever met. You obviously became an addict. Why couldn't you simply outdiscipline addiction? I think this is an important question for the audience to understand. Eric Metcalf: Yeah, addiction as far as discipline, as far as that willpower, that I'm just going to will myself to be sober. Wrong answer. That is just, that is unrealistic to me. It's almost as if, because I did that many, many times, I set myself up for failure because when I'm moving in that direction of absolutes, I'm not living in acceptance. And I have to be able to accept there's a lot in life that happens that I cannot control. So discipline is not always going to be the, I guess I would say an absolute. If I'm disciplined, I'll never ever use. You need some discipline. Yes. But you're to need a whole lot of other things too. You need acceptance. You need to be able to lean on a battle buddy because there are some times I get weebly wobbly. Me and Marc are talking at I don't know, zero, five, we're probably the only people up in the world, And I'm on my way heading down a highway and he's heading somewhere and I'm on the phone with them. I need those conversations. Those are the conversations that where I'm basically, I'm letting go of my ego because I'm showing vulnerability. I'm showing that I'm not really that well, right? And if I can share that with somebody that I didn't sleep last night too well. that my headaches that are at about a seven or eight, because I do get terrible headaches with one of my conditions I live with. If I share that, that for me, where my discipline may not be there because I'm a little bit wobbly. I'm kind of bobbing and weaving emotionally. I'm like an emotional drunk. But if I could share that with somebody, then they kind of throw me a lifeline because they'll say, hey, Eric, you could do it. Like what Marc just said, Eric, you're the most disciplined person. I mean, that's such a huge compliment for a person who was totally impulsive. I did not have discipline. And so now, you know, I try to make sure I measure my discipline with, I also have to check my ego and don't think that I got it all figured out. You know, people always use the phrase, I'm a lifelong learner, right? I have to really, really apply that every day. I have to be able to listen to a Kelsey. Marc Rogala: That's it. Eric Metcalf: give me some advice on how he's doing his strength training. I have to listen to a Marc say, well, hey, when I went through a tough period like that, this is what I use. That's the peer model. We share lived experiences with each other. And then I kind of grab on to something that one of you will say, and then I chew on it like a nugget. So when I am having those weaker moments where my discipline is not going to it's not going to do it because internally, I'm just a hodgepodge of emotions. I can lean on my battle buddies. I mean, we did it in the military. I never knew why during basic training, they told me, well, they didn't call you, you didn't have a name then, so you're just private. Private? They didn't call me MedCap because I didn't earn that right yet. Private. I want you to, and then they'll point to another soldier. Tomorrow, I'm going to ask you their eye color, their height, their mother's name, their father's name, if they have any children. I want you to know their shoe size. I didn't get that. Why? Why do I, I don't want to know this guy. And then at the end of the night, I got to go sit on their bum. Hey, what's the color of your eyes? What are you going to get shoes on? Because the dresser is going to get me tomorrow. They're going to light me up. And I understood it later during training. What they were doing was making us connect. That's the connection. So when you're weak, if I have a connection with a Marc or Kelsey, you all can help hold me up when I'm not so disciplined. Marc Rogala: I guess I'm quite interested in that. Eric Metcalf: or I'm not so strong, that's the battle buddy system. And I really gleaned that from the military, because literally that guy has my six, just like you two. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. And speaking of your military experience, I mean, because that becomes an important part of this, you you actually deployed with roughly nine months of sobriety behind you, then you're dropped into a completely different environment, Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: and eventually drinking becomes a part of the brotherhood around you and a way of managing what you're experiencing. So take us back there. What was happening around Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: you and what was happening inside of you? Eric Metcalf: Yeah, that was a tough period because I had several individuals and I was staying at a place called Safe Haven, which is sort of transitional living home, halfway home, whatever name you want to give it. I was staying at one of those in Chicago and the manager of the facility where I was staying, they knew I was doing really good in my recovery, doing really good in my career. At the time I was corporate sales manager for the Hilton Hotel chain. I worked out of the Palmer House. but I sold for the three Hilton properties throughout Chicago, Hilton O'Hare, Hilton Towers and the Palmer House. And the day of 9-11 happened and everything changed. Now, number one, me seeing the towers fall, I wanna go fight because the soldier in you, kicks in and I want him not here. You don't do that here, right? So that hit me. But then number two, uh-oh. The military setting is there's a lot of drinking. That's just the fact. It is what it is. And I was wondering, can I continue in my sobriety with a deployment? So the manager of where I stay, he offered to write a letter to try to get me out of deploying. And I rejected that. I wanted to go. I wanted to go. And I think I don't know any soldier that didn't want to. And so I made it the first, I think maybe two to three months I made it, because there's a lot of train ups. I have to go to Fort Stewart, Georgia, get a different MOS because they were making me, my MOS was administrative, but I was being attached to an infantry unit. And so I got to get an infantry MOS and we got to go drill. We got to go do a lot of training and mission training before we actually fly out. And during that time I remained so. I remember all the drinking because after everything, hold them up, hold them up. And it's a brotherhood. Everybody's holding up a shot glass, but me, I have a seven up. So I stood out like a sore thumb and I took a lot of razzing from my battle buddies, you know, with Metcalf, come on Metcalf, you're not going to drink. We don't know if we're going to make it back. When you got that sort of pressure about, don't know if we're going to make it back and have this drink with me, eventually, it took its toll. And I think it was probably, it was during a class, because we have to have these classes as far as how to basically blend in with the culture where we're at. And it was during a class that there was alcohol brought into the class and everybody was holding up their shot. And they looked at me and I said, come on, give me one. And that was it. That was it. And then it was like, Metcalf, please put it down. But it started with that one, give me one. And then it became to where I was a problem because I didn't stop with just the one. so it was really tough. I don't want to demean a military in no way, or form, but with the pressure that you're under, oftentimes drinking becomes the coping strategy. It's a coping strategy, it's unhealthy one, but it is a coping strategy. And so that was kind of my experience with the military. By the time I came home, I was fully, fully using. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. And as as somebody who's held up many a cranberry juice and telling people it's vodka and cranberry and I don't even Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: have an addiction issue, but I'm just not a big drinker. So I would Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: think go into a bar and go, What can I order that's gonna make it seem like I'm drinking when I'm not? So I get it. but Eric Metcalf: Yeah, yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: actually you have an innate sense for where we're going next, because just like you did with Marc earlier, because the other side of that story is the coming home. Then you're supposed to come home, walk into an office, sit around a dinner table, and somehow turn all of that off. And then years later at Heinz VA, you finally learned you're dealing not only with PTSD. but also a traumatic brain injury connected to something that happened overseas. So what was it like finally understanding that some of what you've been fighting for for years actually had a name and an explanation? Eric Metcalf: Well, at the onset of my diagnosis, I do remember that pretty well. I think anyone who receives a diagnosis, you always remember the first time you're told that there is something wrong, or as they deem it, that you have a condition, you have a disorder, and so, or injury even. And so as I was getting my diagnosis, because with the VA, what they do is they give you a battery of exams. So I did. I well, they started off with MRIs. Of course, they MRI my brain. They did a lot of assessments as far as, you know, any ideations, homicidal, suicidal, substance use disorder, all of that. So once we completed all of the testing, when I was told that, OK, you live with PTSD. All right, that's a given. pretty much that was an easy check to get it. And actually it's complex. Okay, I'll have to study up on that. See PTSD. Got it, Roger that. And then you're told, well, you also have depression. I don't seem sad. Where are we getting this depression from doc? I remember the conversation. He's like, well, Eric or Mr. Metcalf, most men oftentimes will show depression as anger. You're very angry. I say, Bob, any Bob, any you got me there, Doc. Check. There's a lot of anger, seething rage. So so check. And a lot of times that led to my usage, right. The anger. And then I live my life with excruciating headaches. Right. And so once they told me you also are living with a traumatic brain injury. That was the one that stung because for me, a TBI meant I'm not going to be able to tie my shoes, brush my teeth. my goodness. I'm going to have to have somebody take care of me. What is this? What do you mean a TBI? My brain? He said, well, you got some damage there. Have you taken a few knocks? Did something happen overseas? Yes and yes, you know, both. And so that right there, I remember that made me become very, very, I guess you would say melancholy. And so I was actually on the train, because I was riding the L coming from the hospital and I was processing everything that I was told. And as I looked out the window of the L on the train, I remember I teared up and I quickly shook myself because I'm on a Chicago train. I cannot cry here. I can't do that. Not here in the city, not on the train, on the hill. And so I shit myself and I literally like, ugh. OK, you got to educate yourself because I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what a lot of this means. I'm only going by what society has kind of described these things. A TBI, I shouldn't be able to function as far as my thinking. PTSD, I'm going to be hyper vigilant all the time. And that's going to unsettle people, which is how I lost my job at the Farmer House Hilton. Coming back from overseas, I sat in the first boardroom conference meeting that I had, and I dropped a lot of f-bombs, a lot of swearing because I had been speaking that way. That was the workplace etiquette of the Army. It wasn't workplace etiquette of the Hilton. And it scared some people. And all I was doing was speaking of vernacular that we spoke. And so For me, transitioning was really, really tough. And after that experience, I did start a nonprofit called MIA, Men in Action, No Longer Missing, where I wanted to help other soldiers transitioning back home into civilian life on that transition. Because the transition can become very, very wonky when you've been living a certain way, just like with our recovery. We've been living a certain way for so long, survival mode. Everything is about surviving and how do I feed the cravings, right? How do I come up with money to continue to feed the cravings? It was the same situation with me transitioning home from the military to civilian life. I've been this way for so long to survive. We have dark humor. I mean, military personnel as an MP, right? Just like the police officers. We have a dark sense of humor that may alarm other people. It's a coping strategy. You know, and when I was actively using, that was a coping strategy. So I have to unlearn or do a pivot now because this is not the appropriate strategy for this condition. Being a civilian, the individuals I'm around are not going to understand the humor. They're not going to understand the profanity. They're not going to understand everything is done with a sense of urgency. That can become very alarming for people. And so I had a difficult time and I use me helping others with the MIA organization to really help me with how to become go from military to civilian, which is not an easy transition at all. So I guess long story short, it was tough. It was a real tough time with the diagnosis. It was a tough time to be able to transition from military to civilian life. And even now, you know, because I can get very, very, as my wife has a nickname for me, Darten Dash, right? Cause I get her done. I can get it done like yesterday and that doesn't always go over so well with the wife. So I'm learning how to dial it back a little bit, become a little more calm, ground myself, you know, certain things I need to do so that, I'm relatively well. Marc Rogala: You literally just answered my next question, which is about transitioning. So I'm gonna actually share a story, if that's okay. Eric Metcalf: you Marc Rogala: And and you're gonna remember this story, Eric. So I had a gentleman that I gave some guidance to and he was and he was able to get sober and and and get his life straight from opiates. He was actually a fentanyl addict. And he got back into the workforce, was doing some electrical work, and one of his employees was struggling really hard with the heroin and alcohol. And he started talking to this young man, this young kid from the city, and found out that you know he was a military veteran. He fought in Afghanistan, and he got him in contact with me. And I was trying to give him some guidance, very similar to the guidance that I gave this other gentleman that I helped get sober or gave him guidance to get sober, but This gentleman was calling me up in the middle of the night. He was having flashbacks to Afghanistan. You know, he'd hear an airplane and he'd be hiding under his kitchen table in his apartment. And I do know PTSD in the sense that I have a diagnosis, but what I don't know is dealing with PTSD coming back from overseas and fighting for our country. So I said, Who can I reach out to? I reached out to Eric. I explained the situation. Eric told me to get the gentleman's address because at this point I didn't even have his address. I got his address and in the middle of Eric's workday, he dro he met this young man at his apartment and drove him to the VA and that started the process of getting the help that he needed to get on the right path. It was touch and go for a while, but eventually he got on the right path. That's the type of man that Eric is. Eric Metcalf: Wow, thank you, Marc. I remember that. I remember that well. Marc Rogala: Yeah. Eric Metcalf: you know what, Kelsey and Marc, you already know this, but because I know you two go hard, you go hard in the paint, right? Meaning that we're all in, all in when it comes to helping another person suffering, suffer to tougher. We're all in. Right. And the reason for that is personal with me. It's personal because somebody reached out for me. And if not for somebody reaching out to say, hey, brother, you know what? I have been through something similar and I'm standing here today and I'm going to tell you, you can too. You can make it through this. You're to have to put some work in. You're going to have to unlearn a lot of things. You're going to have to listen to others. You're going to have to lean on others. You're going to have to lean on a faith. You're going to have to have all these things, but you can live. You can live, not only live, you can thrive. You really can. take it. I'm a living witness to it. I mean, take it from me. And so that's why when Marc reached out with that request, I thought about me and I thought about how somebody reached out for me. And they not only did they reach out, but they said, let's go right now. Let's get you to the hospital. And so that was kind of the tactic that I took Marc that wasn't taken no for an answer. Get in the car. We're going. And so, yeah. but I believe that for me it's a privilege just that I'm living, that I'm breathing, that I'm even capable of doing something like that. I look at it as an honor and a privilege to reach out for a fellow battle buddy. It really is. Marc, you know that. Kelsey, we all Marc Rogala: yeah. Eric Metcalf: know. We all know. Marc Rogala: I mean, and I feel the exact same way that you do. I mean, the individuals that helped me, I didn't know them. You know, I mean, I had a sponsor in AA and truthfully he got about three or four other men involved because my case was so complex. I had the alcohol and the opiate addiction. So he actually connected me to a gentleman that was a heroin addict in recovery, but I had all them in my corner. no relationship until I actually walked into a meeting and established that relationship with the one gentleman and you got the others involved. Complete strangers. And I mean they were taking phone calls at very odd times. And they were taking phone calls at times when I wasn't really in too good a shape and probably wasn't making any sense. But they were always there for me. So I have the same sense of purpose that you do from a recovery perspective. Again, I can't relate to the military But there is similarities there. And I talked to Kelsey about this on a podcast a few months ago. You know, when you start talking about the recovery world and the brotherhood and sisterhood that's in the recovery world, I I I I do feel it's similar to the military, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but the individuals I work with, even if they don't have military background, are still f fighting a war. It's a silent war. But it's a war that they're fighting every day. And then when you get on the other side and you start talking about the disciplines that we talked about earlier, it makes sense that a lot of these individuals in recovery live a very disciplined life because it is almost like the same mentality as military fighting a war. It's just a very different Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Marc Rogala: type of war. So no, I understand completely what you're saying. And that's why when the phone rings, and Kelsey and I talk about this all the time, man, Marc, you got to give yourself a break. You got to have some balance in your life. I always want to answer the call. And I know you get that, Eric, you know, coming from the recovery. Eric Metcalf: I do, and if I could just say this one point, because you brought something back to my memory, because I'm very big on being transparent. Kelsey, you asked me about discipline earlier. All right, discipline enabled me to graduate distinguished on a grad, top of the class, right? That means you have the highest PT score, physical training score. You also have the highest aptitude score. That's all your testing that you do during your AIT Advanced Individual Training courses, right? So I graduated top of the class and I did this at the age of 31. So I was considered an old man by military standards because I'm in there with 18, 19 year old kids and I'm pops. They don't know it though, because I had everything shaved off. The drill sergeants kept it hush hush. They did not announce that until I went up to the stage to get my award. Marc Rogala: I think that's the extra Eric Metcalf: Now, that took discipline. I worked out when everybody else was sleeping. I would put the red lens in my flashlight, tiptoe down to the day room, do pushups, inclines, do sit ups. And then I ran all the time. When I woke up, I ran after child, right? To get my run up because you have to have a two mile run. You have to do so many sit ups. Marc Rogala: just getting back to it. I don't think that's a Eric Metcalf: in so many minutes. Marc Rogala: good one. Eric Metcalf: You have to do so many push-ups in so many minutes. And then there some other things that you do, taking your weapon apart, gas mask, all of that. I did good. Discipline, right? Now, let me tell you what I did day one of being back home after I graduated. Distinguished honor grad, medals everywhere. Great, great achievement. Probably one of the highlights of my life, especially being an active when I went to boot camp. I detoxed in boot camp, right? And some of this is gonna be in the book, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. And so the day one when I returned home, and this shows you how far discipline got me, I found a number in my wallet and the number belonged to a drug dealer. And I called and I said, meet me at such and such a hotel. And I, because I thought I've earned this now. Do you see? Where what I mean by discipline can get you so far. It does not necessarily mean you're going to stay sober, right? I was very disciplined to achieve that honor. But then because I didn't do the inside work, I didn't do the outside. Yeah, I'm like cock-raised a rock, but the inside is still trash. It's still discombobulated. And so I called the drug dealer up. I had him pick up a lot of cases of beer, fill up the tub with beer, get ice. get drinks, get girls and get me some work. And I got high and I was doing pushups with the metals hanging from my neck, getting high as everybody in the room was yelling out. Now, so where did discipline get me? You know, it's an inside job. The discipline is definitely a component of it, but there has to be some real soul searching. You got to touch some of those, those, those certain. areas of your life that we don't want to touch. Those childhood hurts, the growing up insecure, growing up nonverbal at times at different phases of your life. All of those things you have to address in order to really, really live a life of recovery. I would say a fulfilling life of recovery because I have a lot of fulfillment now. So thank you for bringing that back to my memory, Marc. But I'm just big on making sure then I'm totally transparent that this has not been a, as we know, recovery is not a straight path anyway. There has been a lot of, of rebuilds, a lot of rebuilds in my life. Marc Rogala: The inside stuff that you're referring that to, when I talk to individuals, I I I refer to it's almost like it's like a cancer, just like festering inside of you. And if you don't work on that underlying those underlying issues. You are going to either have a setback with your drug of choice or you're going to have some form of a transfer addiction to find a new drug of choice. Just I see it every day. And I know you do too. Eric Metcalf: Mm-hmm. Kelsey Dunbar: So talking about, when you come back from the military and the first thing you think about is hitting up that number and so forth, that that's where your story gets so remarkable. Because I started noticing a fascinating pattern in your story. So even while you still need help yourself, you somehow end up helping other people. And you use this phrase that really stuck with me. As much as I deviated from my purpose. My purpose found me. So one of the first places we really see that is during your treatment. You're there because you need help, and somehow you end up starting a little Bible discussion with a handful of veterans. That group grows to dozens of people and eventually becomes men in action, no longer missing, as you talked about before, with the transition living homes and the helping other veterans. How did something that started so small become your first real glimpse of purpose? Eric Metcalf: You know, I feel that for me, living my life's purpose, and I do know that this is my purpose, this is why I am here on this planet, it came about nothing that I'm doing currently or that I've done that I want to do. I had no desire to do it. It was not. in my, it wasn't on my radar. It wasn't like a, on my vision board, any of that. I just knew that as I'm helping people, it helps me. And I just fed that. I just, I ran with it. I guess you could say I was very naive. I didn't even know the amount of work it would take to start a nonprofit. I had to go to university in Wisconsin. I don't know. As I said, you don't know what you don't know. I got to take classes. I have to get a city liaison. I had to find out about zoning. Where can I start a house? Because we had five or six homes for MIA. And I have to, I got to get a flagpole in the yard. I got to have a flag. We got to be neighbors now. I've never had a house like that of my own. I never had sort of ownership like that where I got to have the guys put the flag up because we want the neighbors to really know that we're going to be good neighbors. We had to do all of these various things that I had no idea about. And so with the first home, it was a lot of work. I moved into the house. We got the house built up. We got it full and then we replicated that idea for home two, home three, home four, home five across Wisconsin and Illinois. So I've always found that any sort of project or program that I've taken on, the start of it was just me wanting to help. I just want to help you because as I help you, I'm helping myself because it's less of me and it's a very healthy distraction from me and my ruminating thoughts, that negative inner dialogue, all of those things that individuals with mental health challenges live with. I don't have time for that because I got to get this brother over here to get him in his, he got to get his clothes. He got to get some furniture. We got to get a computer. We got work to do. So as I'm working to help somebody else piece their life together, I noticed my life was being pieced together. It's amazing. It works. It really works. But I can't say that I ever had any sort of like throwing a dart at the board. Okay, that's what I wanna do. I wanna start MIA and have homes. No, I did not. The Bible class, one of the guys who was facilitating the class, he was leaving the program and he said, Eric, you should take it over. your input during Bible class has been very good. You need to take the lead. I don't want to take the lead. I don't want them looking at me teaching out of the Bible. I'm not worthy to do that. But he handed it off to me, the baton, and I started teaching the class and it grew and then it grew and it grew some more to where it was standing room only in this little bitty room. And we're veterans sharing about God's word. And then Of course at that time the director of the VA called me in for a meeting and said we have to stop cease and desist I can't let you have Bible classes on campus anymore. What why and he said because of the simple fact I would have to allow other religious entities to come in and do the same thing and I said sir it's Saturday morning at nine o'clock. Do you have a line of? other religious entities outside your door wanting to do this on a Saturday morning at 9 a.m. with coffee and donuts like I'm doing. And so I said, well, I don't make the rules at the VA grounds. And they basically told me cease and desist, otherwise we'll ban you from the campus. That's how MIA came to be. I said, well, we'll start our own organization outside. I have a house, the first house, and we'll have the Bible class there. And then we started having them at every house. And then we use restaurants and we would get meeting rooms and things like that because it grew too big to have it in a house. But that's how it started. It wasn't something that I per se planned. It was just with the intention of helping that person standing right in front of me. That was it. Or sitting right in front of me. But really, that was it. And I always like to say that because I just don't want with, you when I go back and look at as my, I call her my white hair, white mom. Her name is Elani. She is my, she's been such a integral part in my life. When I was weak, she took me in. But I remember her telling me that Eric, you've lived about 25 different lives in this lifetime. I know it gets hard to keep up with. She's like, you've done so many different things. It's so cool. It is cool for somebody looking on the outside. But living in my skin, not so much because there are so many different things that I've done in this field, but it's all started with the intention of I want to help the person right in front of me. That's it. That's as far as I go with it. And then it just builds. Marc Rogala: So you made that comment earlier about you know that this is your purpose. You feel it like in your heart and your soul. And I feel the exact same way. But when did you realize it was your purpose? When that gentleman handled you handed you the Bible and said, take over this class? Was it After you were thrown out of Eric Metcalf: We're gonna... Marc Rogala: the school and you started that organization, when did you feel that way? Eric Metcalf: You As you recall, I told you that the director at that VA had called a meeting with me, right? And after that meeting, there was a staff member that pulled me aside and he said, Eric, I want you to still show up on Saturday mornings. And I said, I don't want to jeopardize you and your employment. He's like, no, I'm going let you in. What you're doing here is helping these veterans. So this is one rule I'm going to violate. And I was like, sir, I don't want to get you jeopardy with your job. Right. And I went one more Saturday and he opened the door and let me in. And I, and I remember thinking as, as, cause I told you, we had standing room only the guys would come in and stand around the walls. People were looking from outside the room, looking through the gut. I'm like, what is going on? And I knew then this individual is willing to jeopardize his employment. my goodness. I've hit on something here. I get goosebumps now thinking about it. Marc Rogala: It's possible that we can. Eric Metcalf: me just thinking about that because it hit me that when we're doing something that's worthy, when we're doing something worthwhile, something that is bringing light into these shadowy dark places, it costs. There's going to be a cost. And that individual is willing to do that because he said, you're helping these veterans. You need to keep doing this. And I did it for one more Saturday. And then after that, I said, no, I just can't live with this person being jeopardized in their employment. And that's when I moved it to the outside and developed the name and all of the concept and the mission statement and everything. And it grew and grew. But I think that particular moment, when I saw all of those people there, it really hit me. This is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to be a light, even though My light has been dimmed, it's been flickering, snuffed out even. I've had to reignite. I'm supposed to be that light, but I got to also share that I had to move beyond the shadows, you know, because there can be no shadow without light. The light is there, but I have to make sure that I move into the light and stay in the light as much as possible. And so, yeah, for me, I guess I would say that was a pivotal. pivotal moment was with the teaching of that class. And that was early on in my recovery. And I think at that period, I probably had been year one and I ended up achieving almost a little under 15 years of recovery during that stretch of starting with that Bible class, starting with that, and then cheering AA meetings and NA meetings. Cause I was big on. meetings, know, do your 90 and 90. We got to rewire the thinking. That's a great foundation for recovery. And so I was big on that, but it started with that class. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. So you're working your own recovery, you're helping people, that's helping you find your purpose, but then that purpose gets tested in probably the most painful way possible. There was a veteran named Nate, you helped him, you developed a relationship with him, eventually circumstances require you to ask him to leave the program. Not long afterward, Nate died by suicide. And you went to his funeral carrying enormous Marc Rogala: I think that's a fine. Kelsey Dunbar: Guilt. I imagine part of you expected his family to look at you and ask why you didn't save him. Instead, his father did almost the opposite. Can you take us through losing Nate, what carried you Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: into that funeral and what happened when his father saw you? Eric Metcalf: Yeah, I remember the very morning when I was told, I just called her my white hair, white mom. Lonnie and she said, son, where are you at right now? Well, no, she didn't call me son during that time. She said, where are you at right now, Eric? And I said, I'm at work And I tell her, well, I just stepped outside of the office. What's going on? And then that's when she tells me that she found, they found me. And I said, my goodness. And the thing about it, It had been just a couple of weeks since I had to evict Nate from one of the homes, the MIA homes. And so because of the close proximity to me putting Nate out of a house and then hearing that he has taken his life by suicide, that hit me like a ton of bricks. I mean, it shattered me because we're not supposed to lose a soldier. No, he was Air Force. And so I was Army and me and Nate were very tight. We worked out together. Nate, I used to tease Nate and say, Nate, you got more swag than I got. know, Nate was white, but Nate could dress. Nate has such a flair for style and things. And Nate grew up on the west side of Chicago. His parents, his family had a actual organization called Circle Urban Ministries or Circle Urban Campus. And so they and their organization had doctors, lawyers, a school, very, very big, very prominent. So they were my mentors. But because of the family, you know, when families are close, sometimes you need to go outside to get the person's support. So they went to me to help with Nate. And when I got wind and Nate took his life, it floored me. It floored me to where I didn't want to do the work. I said, this is too hard. Well, I've lost somebody. That's not the objective. And I just, was so confused. What happened? Why did it happen? And we go to the funeral and I didn't want to go, but the family insisted that I be there because I really felt that I'm the blame. I'm at fault. I caused this. And Nate. I remember Glenn, Nate's father, I remember me trying to dodge him during the funeral procession because all I kept thinking is which jaw am I going to give him because he's going to take a swing and I'm gonna give him, am going to give him the right or the left? That's all I kept thinking. And eventually he kind of had me cornered and he's a very big guy. He reminds me of like a Grizzly Adams sort of guy. He hunts. He's a hunter. So I was very, very nervous about him seeing me because, my goodness, what's going to happen? And lo and behold, when he finally did see me, he embraced me and I kind of flinched, you know, I did, I did flinch a little bit. He embraced me and pulled me in for a bear hug. And he literally had me off the floor, hugging me and holding the back of my head and whispering in my ear, thank you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. I was, I was so confused. because why are you thanking me? But he said that when he was with us and standing in our home and in our program, they slept for the first time in many, years. They were able to sleep peacefully because this was a battle that had been ongoing with Nate for years. I had no idea. I didn't have anything in the program regarding his suicide-related issues at that time. It was just all about, that's not an option. Take it off the table. You can't look at it that way because it can very well become an option for some. We have to address it. We can't run from it. So I implemented and put it in some different suicidal intervention protocols for us following Nate's death because of me evolving, learning and saying, I can't run from this. I can't say act as if if I don't address it, then it's not going to happen. And I really, it was a life, it was a lesson that I learned from that whole situation. Well, during the, and the funeral procession had Ottoman there. It was in a big auditorium. had his uniform in the rafters, his football jerseys in the rafters. It was beautiful. And what they did was they presented me with a check for about $8,000. So instead of anyone giving flowers, they said, no, give money to MIA. I was so blown away by all of this. I could not believe it because I had saw it as one way. And then based on the family's feedback, I was able to see it a different way, you know? And so it was a tough period for me, but we did continue on with the MIA afterwards. Marc Rogala: But we can Kelsey Dunbar: I think there's such an incredibly difficult lesson inside that experience for anyone who dedicates their life to helping Marc Rogala: do that contribution. Kelsey Dunbar: people. You can love someone, you can serve them, you can give them every resource you know how to give them, and you still don't get to control the Marc Rogala: But Kelsey Dunbar: outcome. Marc Rogala: listen, that's the first time I heard that story, Eric. Okay, maybe I I I don't remember hearing that story. And honestly it got me a little emotional. And the reason why it Eric Metcalf: Yeah, yeah. Marc Rogala: got me emotional is because you were involved in a situation with me where I was meeting with the gentleman and in and he ended up taking his own life the day I was supposed to meet with them by Zoom. And you were the one that called me. I had just left work. I remember exactly where I was. I was on Route 59 and Stearns Road when you called me and you you told me what happened. And just to kind of tell you what type of man this guy is, but I didn't know that you went through that before. Okay. I mean, he was calling on, checking on me like every day for like a week. Are you okay? You know, do you need some support or what have you? And I went to that gentleman's services as well. And I was nervous as shit, to be perfectly honest with you. I didn't know what the family was gonna think. and it was kind of the same experience. I mean, his his kids were coming up to me, my God, he talked about you all the time. You know, his wife came up to me, he talked about you all the time. And I guess I didn't realize what type of impact I made on the gentleman, but at the end of the day, he still ended up taking his own life. And I mean, I had guilt for it for a Eric Metcalf: Yeah. Marc Rogala: long time. You know, and you were there for me. And I really appreciate it. I want to say thank you on this podcast, which leads me to my question. You know, how do you keep caring deeply without caring responsibility for every outcome? How do you find that balance? Eric Metcalf: Great question for me and if I was in a class right now, I would share my screen but for me I do a lot of journaling but I use keep notes I do it with my Google keep notes, right and I could see them up with this there I got a few windows up right now now what I do is and this is a therapy tool a therapeutic tool from my last therapist who was incredible It helps me to process because it's going to start off where, number one, I don't fake or try to pretend the thoughts that I'm having are not real. But I put them into something as if if I was writing, you put it on paper. If you're typing, I put it into my key notes. I hurt. I'm confused. I'm angry. I'm disillusioned. I got to put a name to it. I gotta have a name to it. And then as I keep writing, and usually I just start writing, I don't try to have it all figured out and polished. I just start writing. And what I'll do, I'll notice that as I'm processing, first I'm acknowledging what I'm feeling. Then there, the next thing I go into is the truth. What does the evidence show? And usually I'm gonna get to a line that says, you do good work. You're all in. You do care. That's why it hurts because you care. You see how it is? I'm starting with the, starts off maybe with a little negative connotation to it because I'm kind of, there's that inner dialogue. But as I keep going, the truth will start coming into play, right? What's real, what's evidence? Because I'm big on data. I need evidence. And then after I get to that part, I go into acceptance. I can't control what I don't control. I don't have, and that takes humility to say a lot of things I cannot control because especially sometimes as a soldier, as men, we want to control outcomes. We do. We feel like, because we're supposed to be that. So we're Superman. We should be able to control outcomes based on the hard work we put in. But sometimes you can put in, I mean, hard, hard work and the outcome is not what you would prefer. It does not go the way we anticipated. That's where a lot of my challenges have come. See, I can do a phenomenal job, but then when the outcome doesn't align with my expectation, I implode. Marc Rogala: Okay. Eric Metcalf: I basically self-destruct. It doesn't, and it doesn't take much. It's a little nudge. And then all of a sudden everything I blew, I blow it up. And then there was a lot of collateral damage. There was a lot of damage with relationships, damage with my own. self. And so for me, it's all about acceptance. And now I can't say I would I would be where I'm at today if I didn't have these experiences. That's what I meant when I said the evolution of Eric is I'm constantly evolving. I'm constantly developing different coping strategies, different depths of of how to respond in an emotionally mature way. You know, Marc Rogala: But what I used to do is have a few minutes. Or are they important? Eric Metcalf: from the most simplistic thing to something real heavy duty like a death. And that comes from experiencing it. And I feel like what we do now is as we go through these tough things, I know Marc, you've been through some tough things, Kelsey, we share with others to give them a glimmer of hope so that they don't just decide to check out before the miracle happens because we're miracles. We're miracles. Stick around. Marc Rogala: And you can actually Eric Metcalf: Stick around and that's what I'm big on. I need you to stick around though. We got to figure this out. It's a puzzle, but we can figure it out together. And so hopefully that answers your questions a little bit. Marc Rogala: make this up. Yeah. Thank you.