Latest / She's On The Money / Negative Gearing Is Dead, Unless You’re Already In. Jim Chalmers Explains Why Young Australians Miss Out

Transcript

Negative Gearing Is Dead, Unless You’re Already In. Jim Chalmers Explains Why Young Australians Miss Out · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, my friends, am welcome to She's on the Money.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I am Victoria. To Vine and around here, we are
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: all about making money a little less overwhelming. We have
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• 0:20
  Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: My name's Satasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations woman
• 0:34
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• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Budget, the series
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: where we break down the federal budget in a way
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: that hopefully makes few sounds smarter at brunch in the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: group chat or aggressively pacing coles wondering why blueberries now
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: require a payment plan. I'm Victoria devine and joining me
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: today is the Treasurer of Australia, doctor Jim Chalmers.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Very kind of you and have me on your show.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: Thanks Heeps.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I am very much looking forward to sharing this time
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: with you. I know it's compressed, so I'm going to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: try and be speedy. But before we get into the economy,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the budget and the fact that Australians do probably need
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to take out a small business loan to be able
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: to fill up their car at the moment, I want
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: to address what I'm going to call the elephant in
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the room. That's that the Internet has a lot to
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: say about you. They're quite colorful. I was reading some
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: headlines and based on those headlines, you're either a visionary reformer,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a communist Jim Reaper, which personally I found quite creative,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the man who killed negative gearing, or personally, you're the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: man responsible for ruining Christmas lunch conversations for every property
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: investor in Australia this year. Wowes good, aren't they? How
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: do you feel about criticism like that flying around?
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  Speaker 4: I used to find it tougher than I do now.
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  Speaker 4: I think now if you're a labor treasurer handing down
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  Speaker 4: a budget with a bunch of changes in it. Then
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: if you're looking to some of those outlets for positive headlines,
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  Speaker 4: you're kind of barking up the wrong tree. And I think,
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  Speaker 4: like most Australians, I've got more important things to worry
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: about than some of those headlines. I think more and
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: more people are getting their news from people like yourself
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  Speaker 4: rather than from some of those traditional sources.
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  Speaker 1: I do feel like it feels a little bit more
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: balanced to sit down and be like, what did you
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: acclue actually mean by that? But I also likened the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: budget earlier today with elbow to it feeling like a wedding,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: And I feel like the budget for you must have
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: felt like you were hosting a wedding because half the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: guests leave furious at the seating. No matter what you
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: do during a wedding, someone is going to be upset.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that's pretty accurate?
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  Speaker 4: I hadn't thought about it that way, to be honest.
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  Speaker 4: But people dress up. I guess my young fellow came
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: down from from Logan for the event and I don't
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  Speaker 4: think I've seen him in a button up shirt for
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: a long time that is in the school uniform.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: So people dress up, so it's a dress code.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: It's like a wedding in that regard, and no phones,
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: no phones temporarily or at least maybe sneaky phones.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Just during the reception of course, right right.
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  Speaker 4: It's not festive like a wedding, but it's yeah, it's
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  Speaker 4: a big occasion and people are Yeah, people come from
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: all corners of the country for it.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Now, Treasurer, Before we get into some heavy stuff, we
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: always start with a money story on my show because
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: we all have one and it shapes how we spend, save,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and think about money. What is your earliest memory of money.
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  Speaker 4: I was thinking a bit about this the other day
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  Speaker 4: because we haven't worked out yet how to do the
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: whole pocket money thing for our kids, and I was
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  Speaker 4: remembering when I was little, we had we had two things.
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  Speaker 4: We had one of those savor counts. Oh yes, and
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  Speaker 4: I'm so old that it was a kind of a
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  Speaker 4: handwritten balanced book, you know, that you'd bring in your
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  Speaker 4: fifty cents or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: That's also what I had.
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  Speaker 4: No, of course not so I remember that. And I
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  Speaker 4: also remember working out whether whether my older siblings should
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: get more pocket money than me or not because they
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: had bigger expenses than they were older, and so I
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: can kind of vaguely remember those conversations.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, our theory in my house was fifty cents for
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: every age. You were right, You've got a pay rise everything.
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  Speaker 4: It's like a progressive system of pocket money.
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  Speaker 1: I love. Yeah, my mum said it was a quality
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  Speaker 1: and I just I'm not sure about that. But we
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: can come back to that now. You mentioned before that
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  Speaker 1: your younger guy came down from Logan, and you grew
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: up in Logan, and you've spoken before publicly about really
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: understanding financial pressures firsthand, which, to be honest, I think
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: is essential for the treasure of Australia. Do you think
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: that changes the way that you approach budgets compared to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: people who've only ever viewed the economy through spreadsheets?
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  Speaker 4: Definitely. I mean I for me, everything kind of begins
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: in my local community. There's not everyone here gets to
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: represent the area they grew up in, and I live
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  Speaker 4: about nine hundred meters around the corner from the house
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  Speaker 4: I grew up in, and so, which my school friends
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  Speaker 4: think is pathetic, but I think is cool.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's really pulsive brand that.
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  Speaker 4: Right, But so for me, it's kind of everything and
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: I want my community to think that the work that
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: they've sent me here to do is worthwhile. So it's
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: a really big part of it. I'm not trying to
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  Speaker 4: pretend that I'm necessarily different to other members who get
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: to represent the area that they grew up in, but
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  Speaker 4: for me, it's absolutely central, absolutely essential to how I
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: think about the sorts of challenges that we're trying to
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: help people through.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: So this year's budget, i would say, feels a little
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: bit different to historical Albany government budgets. Less here's some
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: free money and more Okay, we're all actually really stressed
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: about money right now, and we're just trying very hard
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: to not make inflation worse. What was the balancing Act
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: this year?
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  Speaker 4: That's the perfect way to describe it. Every budget's got
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: a series of fine balances in it, and this one
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  Speaker 4: feels like the degree of difficulty was a bit higher
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  Speaker 4: because we had the inflation challenge, we had people getting
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: through a global oil shock. We don't know when the
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: war and the Middle East will end, or for how
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: long the costs will be borne by people here in
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: our country, and so more than the usual amount of uncertainty,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: and so what we tried to do was to say, Okay,
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: it's effectively a budget doing two things at once, helping
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: people through a difficult period, setting the place up for
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: the future, recognizing that, particularly in that longer term piece,
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: there's some difficult, politically contentious changes that we want to make.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: And I think the thing I'm proudest of in the
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: budget on it is really that, you know, some governments
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: would have used what's happening on the other side of
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: the world as an excuse not to do some of
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: these bigger, longer term things, but we've done that at
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  Speaker 4: the same time as we've got a fuel security package
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: and cutting fuel taxes for people doing it tough.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that Australians are able to understand
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: global instability from an intellectual point of view, like we
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: get it, we know what that means. But from an
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  Speaker 1: emotional perspective, I think it still feels very like, well,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: why is this conflict that's happening on the other side
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  Speaker 1: of the world that we didn't have anything to do
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  Speaker 1: with suddenly making my wool worst shop terrifying.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm trying to acknowledge that in my budget speech
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  Speaker 4: actually quite near the front, which is to say that
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  Speaker 4: you know, Australians didn't choose this war or the consequences
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: of this war. They won't decide when it will properly end,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: but they are paying a price for it in the meantime.
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  Speaker 4: And so I am trying to acknowledge those precious coming
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: at us from around the world, but not just kind
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  Speaker 4: of rolling up into a little ball and hoping that
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: everything goes okay, helping people through the difficult period as
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: well as setting the place up for the future.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and with that, you have announced some tax cuts
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and new working Australians, tax offset, a fuel xcise relief,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and some healthcare investments. But if I am honest my
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: community and we're still feeling a little bit like we're drowning,
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  Speaker 1: do you worry that the government can sometimes sound a
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  Speaker 1: little bit disconnected from how hard hitting things are actually
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: on the ground.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I hope not. But I understand
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  Speaker 4: that any one of these policy changes, whether it's any
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: one of the five different ways that we are cutting
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: taxes for people with a disproportionate benefit, positive disproportionate benefit
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: for younger people, younger workers, I can understand that there's
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: always an appetite for more help and more support. And
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: we've only been here four years, but we've cut income
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: taxes five different ways, and there will always be people
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: who would like us to cut taxes by more. We
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: get that down the track. We'd like to cut taxes
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: by more, but we can only do what we can afford.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, the question that I get the most or I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: have had the most over the last weeks about housing,
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  Speaker 1: I have an incredible community of people who would love
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to own their first homes and I think we need
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  Speaker 1: to talk about it because respectfully, Australians are losing their
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: minds over this.
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  Speaker 4: This is really when someone says, respectfully, there's an especially
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: unkind thing that follows that, But you didn't do that then.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So no, I'm not that type of person. In fact,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: when I'm going to do that, I will say quite
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: directly disrespectfully, because it's always a backhanded compliment, isn't it.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: But this budget made massive changes to negative gearing and
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: capital gains tax after Labor had previously ruled them out.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Now I spoke to Albow about this this morning, and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: sometimes with new information we have to make different changes
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and change our mind and I think that's about learning
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and about growth. But what has changed. Was this an
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: ideological shift? Was it an emotional necessary Was it an
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: emotional necessity? Was it an economical necessity? Was there a
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: heap of political pressure, like why are we going from
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: saying we aren't going to touch that to hey, guys,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: we have to touch that.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, understood. I think the best way to convey
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: how we landed here is at the election we had
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: a focus overwhelmingly on building more homes. We've still got
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: that primary focus. There's not enough homes in communities and
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: not enough affordable options for people to get into the
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: housing market, so that's still the main game, but we
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: sort of it became increasingly clear to us that we
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: needed to do more than that, that we had to
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: care as well about the composition of the market. And
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: over a long period of time, the home ownership rates
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: amongst young people have been getting worse, and so I
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: think for us, in coming to this decision relatively recently,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: it was more a sense of if we leave it
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: for any longer, it will get worse and it will
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: get harder. And it would have been politically it would
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: have been much easier just to leave things as they were,
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: but we would have been doing that knowing that we'd
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: be leaving these difficult changes for another generation to make,
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: and so we'd rather fix them, even though that has
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: invited all of the expected political conjecture.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that you don't and I'm not
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: defending it because they don't speak for you. But I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: think when a decision like this is made, you don't
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: make it with the assumption that people are just going
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to take it willingly. They're going to obviously be like, well,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: you said, and that can be really rough.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: I've found that with that, often the people who want
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: to focus exclusively on that, what they're really trying to
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: do is they're trying to avoid the substance of the issue. Often,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: and what I mean by that is people who don't
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: want to contest whether the current arrangements are a problem,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: tax arrangements in the housing market are a problem. They'd
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: rather focus on the politics of it, or some of
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: those comments and commitments that we've made in the past.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I understand why people are interested in that, but I
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: would rather people focus on the substance of the change
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: we make.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And one thing I noticed in this year's budget
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: was how much of the spending was actually tied to
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: women's financial security, which I love so healthcare, child support,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: paid parental leave, work, mobility and demitriosis clinics. Do you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: think governments are finally starting to understand that women's economic
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: participation is economic?
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: Absolutely? And we've got three big things going for us
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: in this regard. First of all, Katie Gallaher is the
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Women's Minister and the Finance Minister. That helps. Second of all,
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: we've got across our economic institutions now we've got for
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: the first time women leading the Productivity Commission, the Treasury,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: the Reserve Bank, assic and in other areas as well.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: And the third thing we've got going for us, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: I'm not trying to make a partisan point on your podcast,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: but the majority of our of the labor government is
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: women and that's not the standard operating procedure in this
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: joint for a very very long long time. And I
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: think I think those three things combined to make a
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: really genuine difference.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell me what's something Australian's fundamentally misunderstand about
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: federal budgets.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I think that most a lot of the spending is
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: kind of baked in a lot of the decisions. People
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: think that we start a budget with a perfectly blank
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: page and then we decide how much to spend on
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: this or that, whereas in reality, there's a lot of
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: decisions taken for you. For example, the indexation of the
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Social Security system. You know, that is automatic, so that
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: eats up a part of the budget when the indexation happens.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And so a lot of what we're really dealing in
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: budgets from one to the next is really a sliver
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: of discretionary spending. There's a lot of it that's already
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: baked in and automatic.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Now I have less than two minutes left with you,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: because you are a booked and busy man, and with
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Elbow and Katie this morning, I did what I did
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: on my first interview with Albow, and that is a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: quick fire around, shoot at you, some quick fire questions
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and it's just first vibes. Let me know, okay, keeping
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: cash in your wallet.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: That reminds me of the PM. He does that exactly.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: He's got a cash float basically in his two.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Hundred bucks in his wallet. He showed me again.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I discovered this on Easter Sunday once when we.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Went to church, and did it benefit you?
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: The plate came around and I had to borrow twenty
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: bucks off him.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: There you go, he's a man of the people. Now
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: tell me about chat GPT.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I use Claude rather than chat GPT. But what I've
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: noticed is in our lives, amongst the parents and peer groups,
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: chat GPT really seems to be the one that a
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: lot of people are using. But I like using Claude.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You're a healthy man. Do you use an air fryer?
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I don't, But I've been thinking about.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Purchasing, thinking about good good purchase. What do you think
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of influencers influences?
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: I think as long as people are providing accurate information,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: we'll motivate it information that's a good thing. Obviously there's
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of people doing that. That's fine, and you've
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: got to make sure that there's a way to avoid
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: people who don't have your interests at heart online.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Two more, what about the cost of blueberries? We're currently
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: sitting at eight dollars fifty.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Up on it? Yeah, yeah, I noticed that too. A
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: big part of my health kick is berries, and I
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: think a lot of people like me are substituting into
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: blackberries fair.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Do you make coffee at home?
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, I've got a coffee machine. I actually prefer
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: now my home coffee because I've kind of perfected exactly
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: how I long.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: So have I all right, Treasurer Jim Chalmers, thank you
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us today and thank you for
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: listening to this bonus budget episode of Sheese on the Money.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: If this episode helped you better understand what the hell
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: just happened in Canberra, send it to a friend, share
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it in the group chat and make sure you're subscribed
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: because we've got more budget breakdowns coming very soon. Take
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: care of yourselves and we'll see you next day.
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