Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / 95% of Breast Cancer Has Nothing to Do With Your Genes | Dr. Kristi Funk
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Dr. Kristi Funk: The incidence is going up and up and up with no end in sight. Breast cancer [00:00:05] finally surpassed lung to become the number one cancer on planet Earth. [00:00:09] Dr. Taz: But I [00:00:10] remember the surgeon telling me, he's like, "It's not if you're gonna get cancer, [00:00:15] it's when." He goes, "We are seeing so much of it right now." And I just looked at him, knowing the work [00:00:20] that I do, and even the work that you do, and I'm like, "I'm not buying that." [00:00:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: No way. [00:00:23] Dr. Taz: I'm not buying that at [00:00:25] all. [00:00:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: Let's think about the main contributors. [00:00:27] Dr. Taz: Every teenager needs to know this. I wanna share a [00:00:30] story with you guys about myself. Back in 2022, I was scooting along, thinking I was [00:00:35] healthy, doing all the right things, trying to follow the right diet, exercise plan, you name it. [00:00:39] Dr. Taz: After [00:00:40] all, I live and work in this space, right? Well, to my surprise, I [00:00:45] found, one day in the shower, a breast lump, and what transpired after was [00:00:50] horrifying, and I know a lot, and I have a lot of resources. I went to [00:00:55] multiple appointments. First had, of course, the mammograms, the ultrasounds, then the request [00:01:00] for a biopsy, then the request for an MRI, then the request for another biopsy. [00:01:04] Dr. Taz: It was [00:01:05] exhausting. But good news, it was all normal, no cancer in [00:01:10] sight, and I now have a little tag in this right breast that I get to walk around and carry with [00:01:15] me for all the years to come. I did not have breast cancer. My mother did. She [00:01:20] had stage zero DCIS. She's actually doing okay as well. But this [00:01:25] topic, breast cancer, the mortality, the incidence, the increasing risk in younger and [00:01:30] younger women, continues to be something that patients ask me about every single day.[00:01:35] [00:01:35] Dr. Taz: That's why I felt like it was so important to learn as much and understand [00:01:40] what we can understand about this diagnosis that continues to plague women today. [00:01:45] Please help me welcome my next guest. Dr. Kristi Funk, MD, is a double [00:01:50] board-certified breast cancer surgeon and lifestyle medicine doctor. She's a best-selling author, an [00:01:55] international speaker, and she graduated from Stanford in 1991. [00:01:59] Dr. Taz: Her medical degree [00:02:00] is from UC Davis, and she completed her residency in Seattle, and a breast cancer fellowship at [00:02:05] Cedars-Sinai in LA. She has excelled in so many different roles, including as a director of the [00:02:10] Cedars-Sinai Breast Center until 2009, where she also co-founded the Pink [00:02:15] Lotus Breast Center in LA, where she currently practices. [00:02:18] Dr. Taz: She has helped thousands of women [00:02:20] navigate breast issues, including celebrities like Angelina Jolie and Sheryl Crow. She's [00:02:25] the go-to expert for Good Morning America and Dr. Phil's Merritt Street Media, and [00:02:30] she's been on a host of television shows, including Dr. Oz, The Doctors, Rachael [00:02:35] Ray, CNN, The View, and more. [00:02:37] Dr. Taz: I couldn't be more honored, more pleased, and honestly, more [00:02:40] excited to introduce you all to Dr. Kristi Funk. All right, Dr. Funk, [00:02:45] thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me. I can't wait to get into this conversation. [00:02:50] So you live and breathe breast cancer. You've been doing this for a really long period of time.[00:02:55] [00:02:55] Dr. Taz: What do you think is going on with breast cancer in women? You know, we [00:03:00] have our October every month. We're screaming pink. We are doing the marches and the walks and [00:03:05] the mammograms and all the things. Mm-hmm. But when we really kinda dial into the data, we're [00:03:10] not really seeing the incidents of breast cancer go down. [00:03:13] Dr. Taz: Now, we can talk a little bit about treatment and all [00:03:15] that other stuff, but I'm just so curious. You've done this for, we were just talking, 23 [00:03:20] years, right? [00:03:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yes. Yeah. [00:03:20] Dr. Taz: What do you think is happening when it comes to the world of breast cancer? [00:03:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:03:25] I know what's happening . [00:03:26] Dr. Taz: You know. That's why we have you on the show. [00:03:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: I love it. All right. All right. [00:03:29] Dr. Taz: Talk to [00:03:30] us. What is going on? [00:03:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: So let's look at the stats. [00:03:32] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:03:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: Uh, October 1st, 2024, the [00:03:35] American Cancer Society just came out with breaking news, new numbers analysis. Since 1989, [00:03:40] what we've been seeing is that the incidents of breast cancer, to your point- [00:03:44] Dr. Taz: [00:03:45] Mm-hmm ... [00:03:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: is going up and up and up with no end in sight. [00:03:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: It's been going up 1% per year. Ah, but [00:03:50] get this, in the last 10 years, it's been going up 1.4% per [00:03:55] year- Mm-hmm ... in women under 50. [00:03:56] Dr. Taz: Ooh, I don't like that. [00:03:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: And 0.7% in those over [00:04:00] 50, while the mortality thankfully has been going down about 1.3% per [00:04:05] year owing to earlier detection and better treatments. The incidents is going up and [00:04:10] up and up with no end in sight. [00:04:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: If you don't know, in 2020, breast finally [00:04:15] surpassed lung to become the number one cancer on planet Earth. [00:04:18] Dr. Taz: Oh, my goodness. [00:04:20] [00:04:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: It is a real serious problem. We've got to figure [00:04:25] out where this bullet train is headed and to, and [00:04:27] Dr. Taz: stop it. Do something about [00:04:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: it. Yeah. It's not [00:04:30] only getting higher in numbers, but lower in ages. [00:04:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: So I mean, if we had made a [00:04:35] bet back in medical school- Right ... in the, in 1992 for me, [00:04:40] um- Right [00:04:40] Dr. Taz: there with [00:04:40] Dr. Taz: you. Yeah. [00:04:41] Dr. Taz: I think I graduated in '93. So [00:04:45] anyhow. [00:04:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: I would have put big money- Yeah ... on not [00:04:50] necessarily, uh, the cure for cancer, 'cause I recognize cancer as a very elusive, sinister little [00:04:55] thing. Mm-hmm. However, I would have thought for sure the numbers would be lower- [00:05:00] Right [00:05:00] Dr. Kristi Funk: both with incidents and [00:05:01] Dr. Taz: mortality. And with all the work that everyone is doing or trying to do, [00:05:05] I think it's interesting. You know, I had a little breast issue. It was about a year or two ago. I found a [00:05:10] lump on my own in the shower, and you know, with our schedules, and you're gonna get mad at me. Please don't get [00:05:15] mad at me. [00:05:15] Dr. Taz: But anyhow, with our schedules, I made the first appointment, the second appointment, then they wanted a [00:05:20] biopsy, then they wanted an MRI, and they... It, it was like four or five appointments to figure this thing out. [00:05:24] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:05:24] Dr. Taz: And with my [00:05:25] schedule, it took me six months. It wasn't like I was doing them, you know, back to back to back. [00:05:28] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:05:29] Dr. Taz: And at [00:05:30] the end of it, everything was fine. You know, there, everything was normal, everything was okay. I have a little tag, [00:05:35] thankfully. But I remember the surgeon telling me, he's like, "It's not if [00:05:40] you're gonna get cancer, it's when." True. He goes, "We are seeing so much of it right now." And [00:05:45] I just looked at him, knowing the work that I do, and even the work that you do, and I'm like, "I'm not buying that." [00:05:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:05:50] No way. [00:05:50] Dr. Taz: I'm not buying that at all. But what do you think is happening with women and the [00:05:55] increased incidents of breast cancer? Where, where can we look? Because right now, the dialogue is all, "Get [00:06:00] your mammogram," and you think you're done. That's it. Right. If you're doing that mammogram, you're done. Your [00:06:05] breast cancer story's over. [00:06:06] Dr. Taz: You checked the box, you can move on. But I know I think differently, and I know [00:06:10] you think differently, so I want you to, to really reflect on what you think is [00:06:15] happening out there with women and why they need to really change that mindset. [00:06:20] [00:06:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: We, you said the word reflect, we just need to look in the mirror and reflect [00:06:25] at our own lives, and recognize that you have so much more [00:06:30] control over this disease than you probably ever thought or could possibly imagine. [00:06:34] Dr. Kristi Funk: But the [00:06:35] science and the research clearly shows that only 5 to 10% of all breast cancer is [00:06:40] coming from inherited genetics- Mm ... right? Like BRCA or CHEK2, PALB2, these mutations. [00:06:44] Dr. Taz: [00:06:45] Wait, let's talk- Yeah ... about BRCA for a second. Okay. I get this all the time in the exam room, all the time, "Well, I don't have BRCA."[00:06:50] [00:06:50] Dr. Taz: You know, "I know we- we're- it's not, I'm not BRCA positive. I'm okay." What's- [00:06:55] what's going on there with that conversation? [00:06:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: The answer is 95% of women with [00:07:00] breast cancer do not have BRCA. [00:07:02] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:07:03] Dr. Kristi Funk: Or any other gene mutation for [00:07:05] that matter, that they inherited from mom or dad. [00:07:07] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:07:09] Dr. Kristi Funk: So [00:07:10] 87% of all women with breast cancer [00:07:15] do not have a single first degree relative with breast cancer. [00:07:18] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:07:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: So even the [00:07:20] inherited genetics aside, just sort of that it runs in my family kind of thought, is [00:07:25] largely false. It's real when it's there- Right ... and we need to pay attention to this [00:07:30] elevated risk status because of something in the water, so to speak, with the family. [00:07:34] Dr. Taz: [00:07:35] Right. [00:07:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: But the vast, vast majority of cancer patients do not have it run in their [00:07:40] family, and it is absolutely not from an inherited gene, and this is fantastic news. [00:07:44] Dr. Taz: Because [00:07:45] we can do something about it. [00:07:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: Because we can do so much- Yeah ... about it. [00:07:47] Dr. Taz: Well, what can... Where is it coming from? [00:07:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay. So [00:07:50] it's coming from a number of different avenues, and they're gonna bump and collide inside [00:07:55] of you in different ways to manipulate the cell microenvironment. Mm. The little [00:08:00] tiny bathtub that are, can, is composed of the fluids and cells that [00:08:05] your cells bathe in. [00:08:06] Dr. Kristi Funk: And that bathtub is either screaming out, [00:08:10] "Pro-cancer"- [00:08:10] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:08:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: or anti-cancer. And you are choosing, [00:08:15] unwittingly or not, every time you lift fork to mouth, every time you think or don't think [00:08:20] something, drink or don't drink something, do or don't do something, even [00:08:25] forgive and don't forgive someone. [00:08:26] Dr. Taz: Ooh, I love that you brought that in. [00:08:28] Dr. Taz: I love that you... [00:08:30] Chinese medicine talks about this. They talk about anger and [00:08:35] grief living in the liver, and then the liver becoming sloppy and sluggish, the [00:08:40] liver meridian- Mm ... guess where it runs through? It runs right through the breast. [00:08:45] So anger and forgiveness go hand in hand in this [00:08:50] conversation. I love that you brought that up. [00:08:51] Dr. Taz: Yay. It makes me so excited. [00:08:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? Well, I have so much to say about that. Yeah. And the [00:08:55] science does, too. Yeah. Now, some of these things are stronger contributors than [00:09:00] others, and some of them, the science has kind of uncovered the why- Right ... behind it- Right ... with more [00:09:05] clarity than others. But absolutely, the, the s- strategies that you can employ [00:09:10] starting today that will radically transform not only that cell microenvironment, that [00:09:15] bathtub, that then is pro-cancer or anti-cancer, but all of the different [00:09:20] mechanisms that lead to all of our major killers. [00:09:22] Dr. Kristi Funk: We're talking heart disease, stroke, diabetes, [00:09:25] Alzheimer's, obesity, and things that don't, don't necessarily kill you, but they kill your [00:09:30] joy and your zest for life, like anxiety, depression, irritable bowel, [00:09:35] arthritis, autoimmune disorders, just inexplicable fatigue and ugh, right? [00:09:39] Dr. Taz: [00:09:40] Totally. [00:09:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: It's so exciting. So the main contrib- the main contributors [00:09:45] to this whole world inside of us that's driving our [00:09:50] health destiny on so many different levels have to do with your [00:09:55] nutritional choices, exercise, [00:10:00] obesity, alcohol use, and other [00:10:05] toxicities like smoking. [00:10:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:10:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: To a certain extent for [00:10:10] women, hormone replacement therapy, and that's a big- That, we gotta go there- ... contentious- ... in a minute. Yes. All [00:10:15] right, gotcha. It's a big thing, and I have definite thoughts on that backed by science. [00:10:20] Environmental toxicities. We live in a barrage of [00:10:25] chemical toxicities that are in the air and in this chair. [00:10:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. But [00:10:30] also just you can be wiser about your own choices for things that you're putting on your [00:10:35] skin, so everything from soaps, toothpaste, laundry detergent, [00:10:40] perfumes, cosmetics, dish soap, on and on. Be [00:10:45] cognizant of what's in your direct contact all day long. [00:10:48] Dr. Taz: So this is a cumulative load. I think [00:10:50] people hear this, and then they are kind of like, "Well, where, where do I [00:10:55] start?" [00:10:55] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Like, "What do I do?" Right? Because the science is there. I know you've seen it. I've seen it, [00:11:00] too. Which really talks about cancer being sort of a cumulative load of all of this [00:11:05] stuff. Mm-hmm. And I think the two words, tell me if you agree with me or not, you know, in all the work I've been doing on hormones and talking about [00:11:10] hormones and, you know, going into menopause with hormone shifts and all this other business, you know, the words [00:11:15] that keep coming up are oxidative stress- Mm-hmm [00:11:16] Dr. Taz: which is that cell not getting the energy it needs, [00:11:20] right? Mm-hmm. And then chronic inflammation- Mm-hmm ... which then become the drivers of cancer. So when [00:11:25] you are talking- Mm-hmm ... nutrition and toxins in the environment and what we're [00:11:30] putting on our body and how we feel and our emotional health and all that stuff, I feel like [00:11:35] those are the two big words where all of that is being sort of [00:11:40] determined, right? [00:11:40] Dr. Taz: Like, your oxidative stress is being determined by that entire list that you just [00:11:45] gave us. Mm-hmm. Your levels of inflammation are being determined by that. And that applies to breast cancer [00:11:50] as well? [00:11:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: 100%. So when you, for example, chew and swallow down food, you're [00:11:55] elevating estrogen levels in your body, a growth hormone called IGF-1, which is- Yep [00:11:59] Dr. Kristi Funk: the hugest growth [00:12:00] promoter. Angiogenesis. Angio, blood vessel. Genesis, birth. So it's the birth [00:12:05] of new blood flow, that every cancer cell in your body must [00:12:10] acquire this new blood flow if it aspires to be bigger than the tip of a ballpoint pen, which what [00:12:15] cancer doesn't have those big dreams? Right. Insulin sensitivity and resistance. [00:12:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: And those [00:12:20] things- The big one, yep ... all contribute dramatically, fundamentally [00:12:25] to oxidative stress. So now you've got this inflammation, and this [00:12:30] chronicity sets up y- immune system dysfunction and dysregulation. So when DNA [00:12:35] damage happens, you are ill-equipped to swoop in and repair it. So now [00:12:40] these damaged DNA cells, i.e. [00:12:42] Dr. Kristi Funk: cancer, that is what cancer is, [00:12:45] have free license to grow and proliferate out of control and unchecked and unfiltered [00:12:50] by an- immune system that should have been highly intact and functional. But because [00:12:55] of choices that you don't realize you're making directly impact this [00:13:00] inflammatory state- Mm-hmm ... and this oxidative stress imbalance, your immune system is handcuffed. [00:13:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: It [00:13:05] has too much to do, it's overwhelmed, it's overtaxed, and decade after decade after decade of [00:13:10] consistently living with less than optimal choices- Right ... will land you [00:13:15] something. Fill in the blank. It may not be breast cancer, but it will be heart disease or [00:13:20] stroke or diabetes or joint issues and irritable... [00:13:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: Like, all the things that we listed, [00:13:25] they're the outflow of chronic inflammation. [00:13:29] Dr. Taz: So when we were [00:13:30] back, if we think back, we're not 50 years out, we're 20, 30 years out. But if we [00:13:35] go back 50 years, was this an issue then? [00:13:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: It was an [00:13:40] issue to the minority of people. Now we're looking at [00:13:45] 72% of Americans being overweight or obese, one in three is pre-diabetic or diabetic, and on and on, right? [00:13:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:13:50] Like, in 1990, 12% of America was obese. Now it's 35%. Mm. [00:13:55] So it was there, it was just on a lower level, and so were a number of other things, such as [00:14:00] ultra-processed food. [00:14:00] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:14:01] Dr. Kristi Funk: Literally 50% of all calories consumed [00:14:05] by the American it, by the average American today come from [00:14:10] ultra-processed food every single day. [00:14:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: 50% of the calories? Mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm. Again, [00:14:15] I mean, I am very passionate about all the things that contribute to... I'm hyper-focused on breast [00:14:20] cancer- Right, right ... but you can fill in the blank of your disease- Different ... every time, right? True. Very [00:14:22] Dr. Taz: true. [00:14:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, but [00:14:25] to think that you think that a Lay's potato chip is really [00:14:30] good nutritional armor for your cells to fight off this inflammation we've been alluding to is [00:14:35] delusional. [00:14:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: W- you said something in passing that I wanna kind of g- [00:14:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:14:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:14:40] bring back. Go, go there, yep ... because I think I have a nice way of putting into [00:14:45] the framework of your thinking as a listener, like, whoa, this is now just overwhelming. It seems like it, [00:14:50] I shouldn't even get out of bed- Right, right ... because I'm just gonna do it wrong, right? [00:14:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. [00:14:52] Dr. Taz: Totally, totally. [00:14:53] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, so let's [00:14:55] think about the main contributors. They have a h- much higher percentage in the science [00:15:00] and in reality in your body contributing to this oxidative stress. Right. So think of [00:15:05] all of your choices in a balance, right? And so you can tip scales. There [00:15:10] are boulders, one good boulder and bam, that s- scale is so tipped [00:15:15] that anything else you're putting on the bad side, it's like, hmm, it's like a pebble. [00:15:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. It's a grain of [00:15:20] sand. Right. Like, it's already down here. So the boulders that drive us toward [00:15:25] an oxidative stress situation, very conducive to breast cancer formation, are [00:15:30] going to be eating animal protein and fat. So you lift that boulder off by being more [00:15:35] plant forward, or in my perfect world, entirely whole food plant-based. [00:15:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:15:40] [00:15:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: And I emphasize that phraseo- phraseology over vegan- [00:15:43] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:15:44] Dr. Kristi Funk: because whole [00:15:45] foods are where it's at. We can talk a lot about that- Yep ... if you want to. Another boulder, [00:15:50] obesity, and just too much fatness. Not sure? [00:15:55] Google body mass index or BMI. Put in your numbers. It is a poor man's index. There are better [00:16:00] ways of measuring it, but basically, if you're over 24.9, we have some weight to lose and a boulder [00:16:05] to lift. [00:16:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: Next one, being sedentary. [00:16:08] Dr. Taz: Mm. All of us. I [00:16:10] love- Yeah ... [00:16:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: the data pouring in- [00:16:11] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:16:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: on how- exercise, [00:16:15] but just movement, just moving more. Just parking a little further away from the grocery store. [00:16:20] Why are you zipping in circles and circles trying to get the closest- Yeah ... spot? Park far away, make yourself walk. If [00:16:25] you- [00:16:25] Dr. Taz: Now, is this being sedentary separate from being obese, or do the two go together? [00:16:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: They [00:16:30] are synergistically bad for you. Right? A double hit. But they are completely independent. [00:16:34] Dr. Taz: [00:16:35] Wow. [00:16:35] Dr. Taz: Do you know how many people sit at their desk all day [00:16:37] Dr. Taz: long? [00:16:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: I do, and guess what? You have to [00:16:40] pee and maybe even do number two. So when you do, why do you walk [00:16:45] 10 feet away and go to the bathroom? If you're in a building, take the stairs, [00:16:50] purposefully use the toilet on the first floor, whatever floor is farther away from you, and then take the [00:16:55] stairs back to your desk. [00:16:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm. Little things like- Mm ... that are cumulative. So we can jump into [00:17:00] how much- Yeah ... exercise- Right ... and movement- Right ... because it's v- also science-based. Right. But to [00:17:05] finish the thought of boulders. [00:17:06] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:17:06] Dr. Kristi Funk: Our last boulder is alcohol. [00:17:09] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:17:09] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:17:10] Alcohol- Yep ... has so many detriments. We can deep dive into that. I really [00:17:15] love talking about it because it's ubiquitous, and it's [00:17:20] associated- With cultural and social norms- Right [00:17:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: that we [00:17:25] need to bust. And I actually have seen a really strong trend, as I'm sure you have- [00:17:29] Dr. Taz: Yes, yeah. Of, [00:17:30] of women- Towards sobriety ... I mean, when I started practice, you know, I'm 15 years in, in, in my [00:17:35] integrative practice, but when I started, it was like so many women coming in saying, "Oh, yeah, I drink a glass of wine [00:17:40] every night, or two," you know? [00:17:41] Dr. Taz: And that was their relaxation technique. And now more and [00:17:45] more, I think the awareness is out there that, oh, no, it's just the weekend. It's not, like, every single night. So that is [00:17:50] shifting. [00:17:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: It's shifting, but I think there's a lot of work to do and enlightenment to create [00:17:55] because we see what we wanna see. [00:17:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: So there are, you know- Right ... for example, [00:18:00] if you yourself have cut back or completely are done with alcohol, [00:18:05] you're gonna start noticing the people who do what you do. [00:18:08] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:18:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? If you're remodeling [00:18:10] your home, you are acutely aware of, oh, the molding over here, the floor. Oh, look at that [00:18:15] ceiling. Oh, the color choice. [00:18:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: Is this beige or is this- Right. Right. Right ... you know, when you start, you hyper focus on things [00:18:20] that you're interested in. So if you are unaware of the detrimental effect of [00:18:25] alcohol use inside of your body, you will largely go through your day still unaware and not seeing the signs and [00:18:30] hearing the facts. [00:18:30] Dr. Taz: Very much so. Now, does alcohol and sugar kinda go together, or, [00:18:35] again, are those independent? [00:18:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: Alcohol and what? [00:18:37] Dr. Taz: Sugar. [00:18:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: Oh, sugar. How interesting. They go [00:18:40] together in that alcohol is a very, is another source of refined- It's su- ... sugar ... it's sugar, right. But [00:18:45] cookies, cakes, pastries, ice cream, bagels, uh, Pixy [00:18:50] Sticks, pure sugar. [00:18:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: I remember Pixy Sticks. Remember those? [00:18:53] Dr. Taz: It's Halloween almost, too. [00:18:55] Yeah, that's what I said, yeah. Soda. [00:18:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yeah. All of these choices- Right ... are really bad, pure refined sugar. Right. [00:19:00] The, n- the problem interestingly is not so much the sugar as the [00:19:05] insulin that goes flying- Right ... out after it. [00:19:06] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:19:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: So we have this scale, and we have these [00:19:10] four big, heavy- Heavy [00:19:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: boulders- Right ... in the forms of animal products, being [00:19:15] sedentary, and being overweight, drinking alcohol. But- Some [00:19:20] people are like, "None of those is a vice to me. I'm all, I'm good." I'm on top of it. My scale's [00:19:25] balanced. Well, now is when the pebbles can start to shift things toward illness instead [00:19:30] of health, and those smaller pebbles that contribute are going to [00:19:35] be environmental toxicities, emotional stress, hormone [00:19:40] replacement therapy- Mm [00:19:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: a lack of restorative sleep, and a lack of [00:19:45] fasting. [00:19:45] Dr. Taz: Interesting. All right. We got a lot to unpack here. So let's go back to the [00:19:50] boulders. I think that's a good place to begin. So you mentioned diet, and you mentioned animal protein [00:19:55] in particular. Mm-hmm. Right now we're in a culture, in a context of protein, protein, protein, get those [00:20:00] protein grams up. [00:20:00] Dr. Taz: It's difficult to get those protein grams up when people are becoming vegetarian. [00:20:05] I have so many, you know, people complaining to me, women complaining to me about that. Is it no [00:20:10] animal protein? Is it a moderate amount of animal protein? Tell me what the science says about [00:20:15] animal protein and breast cancer. [00:20:17] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. [00:20:17] Dr. Taz: And is it an issue of excess [00:20:20] consumption, quality? Tell us a little bit more about... And, you know, dial through that just a [00:20:25] little bit more. [00:20:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay. So every time we're asking a question about [00:20:30] animal protein and cancer risk, the question I always ask back is, "Compared to [00:20:35] what?" So for example, processed meat- [00:20:38] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:20:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: what's that? [00:20:40] Sausages, bacon, hot dogs, but everything that comes out of the deli case at the- [00:20:45] Right ... supermarket, including organic chicken breast- [00:20:48] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:20:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: turkey breast, right? [00:20:50] [00:20:50] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:20:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: All processed meat. All the sliced stuff that everyone's u- All- [00:20:53] Dr. Taz: Everyone's using in their sandwiches [00:20:55] and- [00:20:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yes ... all those other places, so. [00:20:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: And the charcuterie board- Right ... at the fancy party. Exactly. [00:20:58] Dr. Taz: They're so pretty though, but anyhow, yeah. [00:20:59] Dr. Kristi Funk: They're so [00:21:00] pretty- ... and they're absolutely carcinogenic to all humans. So the IARC, the International [00:21:05] Agency for Research on Cancer, is a subdivision of the World Health Organization. [00:21:10] Mm-hmm. And in 2015, there were 22 researchers in Lyon, France who were... [00:21:14] Dr. Kristi Funk: They weren't [00:21:15] locked in a room, but they're in a room. They're looking... They're from 10 different countries, right? So we have a real smattering. And it's [00:21:20] important to me to emphasize, if you don't know, that the IARC is not bought by anyone. [00:21:24] Dr. Taz: [00:21:25] Mm-hmm. [00:21:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: And while I don't wanna deep dive into that with, right now at [00:21:30] all, funding is a big- [00:21:32] Dr. Taz: Issue, [00:21:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: yeah [00:21:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: issue when it comes to research [00:21:35] outcome. You can manipulate data in oh so many ways, and that happens, but not [00:21:40] at this level. The IARC is all about telling us humans on [00:21:45] Planet Earth what definitely does or what probably does cause [00:21:50] cancer. End of mission. [00:21:52] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:21:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: So in 2015, they were charged with the [00:21:55] responsibility of looking at these 800 epidemiologic studies and answering two questions: Does red meat [00:22:00] cause cancer? [00:22:00] Dr. Kristi Funk: Does processed meat cause cancer? Mm. [00:22:02] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:22:03] Dr. Kristi Funk: And what they [00:22:05] concluded was that all processed meat is a class one carcinogen, which means it [00:22:10] absolutely is carcinogenic to humans with the same certainty as [00:22:15] plutonium, asbestos- Oh, my goodness ... tobacco, and alcohol. All processed meat. [00:22:19] Dr. Taz: [00:22:20] Plutonium and asbestos equals turkey deli meat and [00:22:25] charcuterie boards. [00:22:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yes, it does. Wow. Now- [00:22:27] Dr. Taz: Okay ... [00:22:27] Dr. Kristi Funk: with scientific certainty, not with the [00:22:30] same- Right ... power to cause- Right, right, right ... the cancer. Right, right. Okay. So that's [00:22:35] mind-blowing because these, these deli meats are at every- [00:22:40] Everywhere ... everywhere. They're everywhere. Yeah. They're in every- Yeah ... school lunch box in America almost.[00:22:45] [00:22:45] Dr. Taz: So- And I love that you said too, I hope everybody caught that. I love you sa- I love that you said even if it's [00:22:50] organic. I think there's a lot of like, "Well, it's organic, so it's okay." Mm-hmm. No. [00:22:55] [00:22:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: When it comes to meat, certainly eating a pure form of meat will [00:23:00] eliminate the excessive use of antibiotics and hormones in the GMO [00:23:05] feed that's dumped with glyphosate that that animal then eats, that actually gets into your body. [00:23:09] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:23:10] [00:23:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: Glyphosate has been- Yes ... in the quantities you would get from a typical [00:23:15] GMO soybean consumption, right? Which all the animals are eating these GMO [00:23:20] soybeans as part of their foo- food. You drip that amount of glyphosate onto a Petri dish [00:23:25] of human breast cancer cells, and they immediately grow. [00:23:28] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:23:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: It [00:23:30] is a pure estrogen basically fueling the growth of these cells. [00:23:34] Dr. Taz: [00:23:35] Mm. [00:23:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: When we think [00:23:40] about the purity of the meat, organic or not, yes, you're escaping some of these [00:23:45] toxicities that are added to the animals that get into the food that's on your plate. However, there [00:23:50] are other considerations, including what is naturally in the meat that the animal itself [00:23:55] just had in the meat. [00:23:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. So we're talking trans fat, saturated fat, [00:24:00] cholesterol, heme iron, nitrates. This is in organic meat- Right ... because it [00:24:05] is meat. [00:24:05] Dr. Taz: Part of meat, right. [00:24:06] Dr. Kristi Funk: Number three then, so what's added to the meat is something you can [00:24:10] avoid by choosing more sustainably raised, et cetera. You can never escape what's [00:24:15] in the meat. [00:24:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: You can never get what's not in meat, namely [00:24:20] fiber- Right ... meat and water- Right ... and certain vitamins. It [00:24:21] Dr. Taz: slows the gut down, all of these things. Yep. [00:24:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: Exactly. Yep. I mean, [00:24:25] I- we could wax on about fiber for days. Right. Right. We could talk about- Whole different episode. Yes. Anyhow. [00:24:30] Well covered. Um, and then sometimes then if you're, [00:24:35] um, when you're thinking about eating meat, [00:24:40] you are thinking if it's organic, you're n- you're not harming your insides, but you have [00:24:45] an automatic reaction to the presence of animal protein that does not [00:24:50] care at all about how pasture-raised it was, how happy it was- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm [00:24:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: how many acres it [00:24:55] could roam before it was put on your plate. And that response is to elevate [00:25:00] things that we've talked about. Right. The estrogen levels, the growth hormones, the angiogenesis, the insulin [00:25:05] resistance, and all of this stuff that leads to the playground for cancer. [00:25:09] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:25:10] Now, couple this whole issue with meat around what you already alluded [00:25:15] to, which was obesity and blood sugar and insulin resistance, right? [00:25:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. [00:25:19] Dr. Taz: So [00:25:20] somebody on a plant-based diet who's concerned about their cancer risk, what is the best way for [00:25:25] them to manage blood sugar stability and insulin resistance, aside from exercise and [00:25:30] movement and consistent sleep? [00:25:31] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. [00:25:31] Dr. Taz: What would you tell them? [00:25:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: A lot of [00:25:35] insulin regulation is coming from, I think, two main pathways you wanna think about. [00:25:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: One [00:25:40] is your saturated fat consumption. So you can still, of course, get saturated fat in your [00:25:45] plant-based eating. It's gonna be a lot harder than one filet of- Right ... [00:25:50] beef, right? Um, so, or steak.[00:25:55] [00:25:55] Dr. Taz: I don't even know if you can think about meat anymore. That works. We need to move on from meat. All [00:25:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: right. Yeah, exactly. Um, so one thing that's happening with [00:26:00] saturated fat, you've got these, um, insulin receptors that sit on cells, right? [00:26:03] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:26:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: And [00:26:05] when ins- so glucose is happening and blood sugar's in the bloodstream, and the pancreas is like, "Oh, let me [00:26:10] throw out some insulin to manage this glucose. [00:26:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: We need to use it and store it, so I'm gonna send out [00:26:15] insulin to hit this gate, hit this receptor," which is, when [00:26:20] inhabited by insulin, is gonna say, "Hey, glucose gate, open up. Let the sugar in." Mm-hmm. All right? [00:26:24] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:26:25] [00:26:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, what happens, people think that diabetes is a sugar [00:26:30] problem. [00:26:30] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:26:31] Dr. Kristi Funk: It is a saturated fat problem. [00:26:33] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:26:35] [00:26:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: What is happening is saturated fat is literally, when it's [00:26:40] too plentiful, s- hiding, and it stuffs itself, in part, [00:26:45] into insulin receptors. So now, eat your meal. Doesn't have to be [00:26:50] candy, just a normal meal that's gonna elevate your blood sugar. Out comes the insulin. "Oh, let's deal [00:26:55] with the blood sugar." [00:26:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: It's flying around going, "Whoa, I can't get in here. I can't get in here." And the receptor's [00:27:00] like, "Well, I'm, I'm stuffed with fat. I can't hear you. I can't hear you." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? So the insulin isn't giving any [00:27:05] signal for the glucose gate to open, so it's still shut, and your pancreas is like, "What's wrong with you [00:27:10] people? [00:27:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: I'm gonna throw out more insulin." And the glucose is still running around, and everybody's screaming that, "Oh my gosh, [00:27:15] her blood glucose is so high." And now comes the hyperinsulinemia, 'cause the insulin's trying to get this [00:27:20] message across, and the whole problem is the fat. Hmm. So you eat a [00:27:25] low-fat plant-based diet, if this is one of your medical issues right now that you're [00:27:30] dealing with- Insulin resistance [00:27:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: insulin resistance, and all of a sudden the fat will melt away from the receptor. [00:27:35] The insulin that comes out on the first pass will be enough to hit that receptor, open the [00:27:40] gate, down goes the sugar, and look how beautiful your blood panel is. So [00:27:42] Dr. Taz: then what do you say to the, and I don't wanna, you know, [00:27:45] get too deep in the weeds on this, but what do you say to the keto community, or, [00:27:50] you know- Yeah [00:27:50] Dr. Taz: some of those folks that are coming in trying to manage their insulin resistance by really increasing [00:27:55] all kinds of fat in their diet? What sort, what does the science say, too, about that when it [00:28:00] comes to breast cancer, insulin resistance, and trying to close this gap? [00:28:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:28:05] You will not be able to show me a long-term study looking at keto [00:28:10] and its long-term effectiveness. [00:28:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: In the short term, yes, blood sugar gets better [00:28:15] regulated, even hemoglobin A1C comes down. [00:28:17] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:28:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: We have to watch out, though, what's [00:28:20] happening behind the scenes with cardiac disease. Mm-hmm. And what you really need to make [00:28:25] sure you're okay is an oral glucose tolerance test. [00:28:27] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:28:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: Unless you're doing that, the hemoglobin [00:28:30] A1C isn't really the truth-truth. [00:28:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: What we need to know is that when you [00:28:35] swallow down liquid sugar, your receptors receive that [00:28:40] insulin readily and deal with it quickly on the sugar level, and that test [00:28:45] is often failed by people on keto. [00:28:47] Dr. Taz: Oh, I think that's such a good point, 'cause so many people look at their [00:28:50] A1Cs and think they're fine, you know? [00:28:51] Dr. Taz: And so I think that's a really important point as well. So [00:28:55] plant-based whole foods, any tips? How do you make that a reality in day-to-day life for [00:29:00] people who are like, "I, I wanna do this and I wanna protect my risk," given the environment that we're in today? [00:29:05] [00:29:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. You can get really excited about this and then you open up your refrigerator and you're like, [00:29:10] "Ah." [00:29:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: "Oh, crap." "Just give me the turkey sandwich. I don't know what's happening to [00:29:13] Dr. Taz: my- ... this is [00:29:13] Dr. Kristi Funk: too hard." Um, so there are [00:29:15] so many resources with just a good Google of, you know, plant-based recipes, and so many [00:29:20] sites. I have created Pink Lotus Power Up. Ooh, I love that. It's a community- [00:29:24] Dr. Taz: Okay ... [00:29:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:29:25] uh, filled with a ton of members. [00:29:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: It has over 50,000 members, and in there is a kitchen where I have [00:29:30] recipes. I have a cooking show once a month that shows you up close and in person how we [00:29:35] can make plant-based eating simple and quick. I have three teenage sons. Mm. I am [00:29:40] working full time. I don't have time to... I feel like all my free time, if I'm not exercising, I'm [00:29:45] chopping vegetables. [00:29:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yeah. Right. But, um, um, the way you make this a [00:29:50] reality is to recognize that if you're honest and you are [00:29:55] like the slice of American pie that we know to be true, you only have eight meals that are your go-to [00:30:00] meals. [00:30:00] Dr. Taz: Mm. Very true. [00:30:01] Dr. Kristi Funk: All right? Mm-hmm. So revamp them to be [00:30:05] plant-forward, if we're transitioning, or entirely plant-based. [00:30:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: Breakfast is super easy. Yeah. Let [00:30:10] me give you... Like, breakfast could be a smoothie. It can be oatmeal, but just not just oatmeal. Add some [00:30:15] flax seeds, some cinnamon, some berries. Top it with some seeds and nuts, and boom, you have a [00:30:20] really great meal there. You could do avocado toast. You could do a tofu scr- scramble instead of [00:30:25] egg scramble. [00:30:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:30:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? There's a lot of easy things for breakfast. Just look at your current meal. [00:30:30] So- I, I, when I became totally [00:30:35] plant-based, and so did my entire family, on a dime in one minute- Mm-hmm ... eight years ago, before [00:30:40] that, I would say for lunch I'd have a massive salad with a [00:30:45] salmon filet on top- Mm-hmm ... and a bunch of feta, 'cause I love cheese. [00:30:48] Dr. Taz: Me too. [00:30:48] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay? So [00:30:50] now, if that's you, you look at that salad and say, "You know what? I'm gonna replace the salmon [00:30:55] with maybe a grilled bar of tofu." [00:30:57] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:30:58] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? And the feta [00:31:00] cheese I personally don't need, but you can do some sort of vegan substitute cheese kind [00:31:05] of thing happening, or just recognize that you didn't need that and have more delicious [00:31:10] dressing with nutritional yeast in it- Right [00:31:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: which makes it like a cheesy flavor, if that's what you're after. My [00:31:15] point is, look at the meal and see what can sub for what used to be the protein star of the [00:31:20] plate. Dinner, chicken, vegetables, mashed potatoes. [00:31:23] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:31:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay? Mine, of [00:31:25] course, was always skinless, boneless, organic chicken breast. Again, better than the [00:31:30] thigh with skin from a GMO chicken. [00:31:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: But the point is, we want the chicken off the [00:31:35] plate. So what can I put on instead? I have a favorite [00:31:40] chicken substitute in the form of seitan, which is- Oh, [00:31:43] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:31:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: I've had it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, glad you're down. [00:31:45] It's not for devil. Right, right. All right. This is, uh, unfortunately not for [00:31:50] my gluten sensitive people out there- Right [00:31:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: or celiacs. Right. But that is surprisingly fewer than the people who think [00:31:55] they are. Mm-hmm. 1% of America is celiac, and maybe 5% have gluten sensitivities, and [00:32:00] yet there's a whole industry now, you know, advertising to the gluten sensitive. Right. So I think people [00:32:05] think- Right ... they mistake things. We can... I digress. [00:32:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: So the point is, this is [00:32:10] a really delicious chewy... It's like a vegan meat for us that eat plant-based [00:32:15] because it has the consistency of meat and takes on the flavoring of the spices you choose to use. Mm. Mm-hmm. [00:32:20] So I buy it in bulk, and so it just is like flour. It's wheat gluten, and then [00:32:25] you, uh, it takes literally four minutes in a food processor for me to get all that ingredients in, and [00:32:30] then it forms this doughy bread-ish thing that you can roll into whatever. [00:32:34] Dr. Kristi Funk: So I [00:32:35] make little chicken, like, cutlets. Cutlets out of it. Look, and then you steam it for 30 minutes, [00:32:40] and it is a g- There's the star of my plate. 24 grams of [00:32:45] protein for one third of a cup. [00:32:46] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:32:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: And my kids will eat a cup. That's 60 [00:32:50] whatever. So, you know, [00:32:51] Dr. Taz: when patients are coming into you and they're con- either concerned about breast [00:32:55] cancer or they've had a diagnosis of breast cancer, you know, when they transition [00:33:00] to sort of more of this plant-based diet, what are you seeing? [00:33:02] Dr. Taz: Like, what are you seeing kind of in the exam room? What are you seeing [00:33:05] maybe on imaging? What, what are, what is some of the, the benefit of go- kind of going through this? [00:33:10] [00:33:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: Well, if they already had their cancer surgery- Right ... you know, they're [00:33:15] in maintenance mode. Right. What they tell me isn't necessarily... [00:33:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: There's no real cancer marker, right? [00:33:20] Unless they have a recurrence on the horizon- Mm-hmm ... everything looks fine. The imaging is clear, and their [00:33:25] blood- Right ... tumor markers are negative or normal range. Mm-hmm. So what I hear them say is- [00:33:30] Oh, my gosh, and then enter in all the side benefits that I mentioned. I didn't [00:33:35] realize my arthritis had to do with that. [00:33:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: I had trouble opening peanut butter jars. Mm-hmm. And now, poot, [00:33:40] my knuckles never hurt. I'm getting out of bed without my feet having that, like, need to wake up kind [00:33:45] of ankle- Right ... motion feeling. My skin is better. My thought is clearer. My sleep is [00:33:50] deeper. My sex life is better. My LDL cholesterol, I got off the Lipitor. [00:33:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right, [00:33:54] Dr. Taz: [00:33:55] yeah. We see that frequently. What about from an imaging standpoint? Do you see changes in dense [00:34:00] breast or in fibrocystic breast or many of these things that women today are dealing [00:34:05] with? [00:34:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: You definitely do. Mm-hmm. So plant-based eating can decrease density, but there's such a genetic [00:34:10] footprint on density at a baseline- Mm-hmm [00:34:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: that it's hard to manipulate that exclusively with [00:34:15] diet. But if someone's teetering on dense, not dense, so we grade it A through D, so if you're a B, [00:34:20] C, on the fence of dense and not dense, it will usually just slide right into not dense. [00:34:24] Dr. Taz: [00:34:25] Gotcha. So you mentioned some of the other boulders, and then you mentioned the [00:34:30] pebbles, right? [00:34:31] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Which are the smaller things that you can do. You know, part of this show, [00:34:35] we call it Science and Spirit for a reason. There's a lot of great science and data and research, and then there's a lot of just the [00:34:40] human experience and what you're going through on any given day and, and how all the elements of [00:34:45] your life kind of add up to maybe trigger inflammation or oxidative stress- Mm-hmm [00:34:49] Dr. Taz: or [00:34:50] joy or love or all the happy, positive things as well. You know, I have often [00:34:55] shared this story, and it's unfortunately true, but I have sat with a lot of women over the last [00:35:00] 15 years or so, and any time I've sat with one that is going through [00:35:05] deep grief, a trauma, a divorce, I, my heart sinks a little bit, to be [00:35:10] 100% honest, 'cause I can almost time that 18 months later, [00:35:15] we're dealing with something, and 80% of the time, that something is [00:35:20] breast cancer. [00:35:21] Dr. Taz: And it goes back to what we were just talking about with the liver meridian in Chinese medicine. I think there [00:35:25] is something to all of that and where we hold and store emotions. You mentioned it as one of the pebbles. Mm-hmm. [00:35:30] You know? [00:35:30] Dr. Taz: For sure. [00:35:30] Dr. Taz: You know, what, where, what are you telling women when that shows [00:35:35] up? [00:35:35] Dr. Taz: What should they be doing? What should they be thinking about, you know, in terms of [00:35:40] that as part of their breast cancer risk? [00:35:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: Oftentimes I will ask a woman, [00:35:45] so the 18-month timeline is probably, [00:35:50] uh, because something is so developed already. Mm-hmm. But the instigating [00:35:55] time of cancer was definitely m- more like seven years ago. [00:35:59] Dr. Taz: Mm, [00:35:59] Dr. Kristi Funk: interesting. Somewhere between five and [00:36:00] 15 years, depending on the division rate of the tumor, was the first cell that went awry. Now, keep [00:36:05] in mind, one cell becoming two, becoming four, these division rates takes [00:36:10] between, depending on your age, three to six months for one cell to become two. [00:36:15] A sugar cube of cancer has one billion cells. [00:36:18] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:36:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: So [00:36:20] when you do the division rate and the math backwards on a one centimeter cancer, [00:36:25] mind you, the average detection size is 2.2 centimeters, you will find that the [00:36:30] math will put you about eight to 10 years ago. So I [00:36:35] will say, "What happened back then?" [00:36:36] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:36:37] Dr. Kristi Funk: And that was the heartache, the death, the [00:36:40] divorce, the job loss, the major life stressor that tipped those stress [00:36:45] scales, that created excessive cortisol output [00:36:50] excessive TNF alpha, interleukin 6. [00:36:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: You recognize [00:36:55] these things- Right ... as numbers a- and letters that are- Mm ... associated with an inflammatory cascade of [00:37:00] badness. You can deal with cortisol, again, when the proverbial bear is [00:37:05] chasing you, right? It's the fight or flight stress hormone. It's our most potent glucocorticoid- [00:37:10] Right ... flying out of our adrenal glands, and it's highly useful when you're trying to have [00:37:15] an engaging podcast Right. [00:37:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: And so you're excited about it- Right. Right ... or you're trying to hit the winning shot on the- [00:37:20] Right ... pickleball court, or you're giving a big [00:37:23] Dr. Taz: presentation. Suck at that. [00:37:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: Anyway, so thank [00:37:25] goodness for some cortisol- Right ... when you need it most. But you do not need it all day long. [00:37:30] It is, it is because of the deep [00:37:35] heartbreak that leads to that s- cal- stress and [00:37:40] depression and the existence of these- Ugh [00:37:44] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:37:45] markers day after day just saturates cells. Do you think women are just [00:37:47] Dr. Taz: more stressed? [00:37:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: Oh, no doubt. [00:37:49] Dr. Taz: This [00:37:50] generation than previous? Oh, [00:37:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: you know, starting in the '60s and [00:37:55] '70s, thankfully we had a lot of liberation and, you know, we were able- Right ... to increase our station in life and [00:38:00] become more independent. [00:38:01] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. And that all has a lot of beauty to it. Right. But it [00:38:05] also has some stress to it because now we started entering the workforce in [00:38:10] droves. We were delaying childbearing or not having kids at all, which by the way is a breast [00:38:15] cancer protection thing to have children younger. Mm. It's not, not a reason for, "Oh, [00:38:20] Mom, I reduced my breast cancer risk. [00:38:21] Dr. Kristi Funk: I got pre- pregnant at 15." Right. Right. That's not what I'm saying. But the point [00:38:25] is we know that women have been delaying chi- I mean, hey, I had triplets at 40. Yeah. So, you know. [00:38:29] Dr. Taz: [00:38:30] 36 and 38. No, 34 and 36, so yeah. [00:38:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. Yeah. So we were trying to get the [00:38:35] education we needed and foster the career until the timing seemed better- Right [00:38:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: the number of perfect time, right? [00:38:39] Dr. Taz: [00:38:40] Right. [00:38:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: delaying or eliminating breastfeeding. We're in LA [00:38:45] bumper-to- bumpering it home in stressful traffic, just in time to get [00:38:50] home to probably lay takeout on the table- Yeah ... or have Instacart d- deliver something. And [00:38:55] then you pour a glass of wine, and phew, last thing you ne- need to do [00:39:00] now is get in that gym and do some treadmill work. [00:39:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: You are sitting on the couch- Trivaportol ... with a glass of red [00:39:05] wine, and you are watching your latest Netflix binge because you deserve it, 'cause you had a crazy [00:39:10] long day- [00:39:10] Dr. Taz: And you're exhausted ... and it's time to relax. You know, my daughter is 16. We were talking about that, and [00:39:15] she's like, "You guys just messed it up. [00:39:16] Dr. Taz: Like, this whole women's rights, like, you know, like, what were [00:39:20] y'all thinking?" Like, well, I go, "First of all, I wasn't a part of that." But secondly, I do believe in [00:39:25] women being financially independent. I think it's very important. You know, many women have suffered with, you [00:39:30] know, their inability to be able to have choice and voice and all these other things. [00:39:34] Dr. Taz: And of course. She's like, [00:39:35] "Yeah, but like, God, now I have to do this, too." I'm like, "It's [00:39:40] okay. You can be a stay-at-home daughter," you know? But anyways, so, but no, all jokes [00:39:45] aside, like, I do think there's something there. I think that we went [00:39:50] for it. We did it. Women are doing incredible, amazing things and contributing to society, but I [00:39:55] talk a lot... [00:39:55] Dr. Taz: One of my books, I talked about superwoman syndrome. Mm-hmm. I think that we also have to now [00:40:00] demand that society meets us to where we can be women, you know? And [00:40:05] I think that- Mm-hmm ... that is something that probably I'm hoping the next generation will push forward for [00:40:10] sure, you know. [00:40:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: Well, I think something our generation is starting to implement is the new [00:40:15] buzzword of self-care. [00:40:15] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:40:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? Right. So the me time that is really [00:40:20] actually just still part of my generosity to the rest of you in this world- Right. ... and my family. Right. Because the [00:40:25] me time allows me to show up and be better for you time. Right. And whatever that looks like for [00:40:30] you, it's important to prioritize it. [00:40:32] Dr. Taz: So important. [00:40:33] Dr. Taz: All right, well, let's go back to you're a young [00:40:35] woman. You're under 50, and you've listened to this, and [00:40:40] now you're really concerned. You know, you know now that it's a little bit of a level playing field [00:40:45] when it comes to the incidence and the risk of breast cancer. You know that we have choice with all the [00:40:50] things that you've talked about that are amazing, but what should someone, once they're instituting [00:40:55] a lot of these different lifestyle changes and trying to put things in motion, what's a good screening [00:41:00] plan? [00:41:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. What are labs maybe, like should everyone go get a, a TNF alpha and an [00:41:05] IL-6 checked every year? You know, those are maybe extreme, but, like, in your opinion, if you could, [00:41:10] like, wave a wand, not worry about insurance, not worry about any- Mm ... of these things, right? What would you tell [00:41:15] young women to do? And I, and I think we're talking to s- our daughter's age, even, [00:41:20] 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. [00:41:21] Dr. Taz: Like, what should young women do as we continue to see [00:41:25] cancer rise in younger age groups? What should they be doing on a yearly basis? [00:41:30] [00:41:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: So the problem as I see it with [00:41:35] screening and looking at certain tests is that we're just looking [00:41:40] for the cow that's out of the barn. [00:41:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:41:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? I- You wanna get- ... [00:41:45] really wanna focus so that there are no cows. [00:41:47] Dr. Taz: Right, right. [00:41:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:41:50] Um, so in so many ways. So to the teenager, [00:41:55] I'm gonna say, "You know what? This seems crazy, but I wanna teach you how to do a breast [00:42:00] self-exam." [00:42:00] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:42:00] Dr. Kristi Funk: I'm not thinking in a million years that we're looking for cancer. We're learning to be [00:42:05] familiar with our growing, developing breasts, learn where the lumpy bumpiness is, learn that it's tender [00:42:10] here and not there so that, God forbid, somewhere around 20-plus [00:42:15] years from now, if there's ever a change, you will be very clear in your mind that, [00:42:20] "Ugh, this was not there before." [00:42:21] Dr. Kristi Funk: So we need a familiarity with our own breasts. So I [00:42:25] advocate for as soon as periods start, you know, 11, 12, 13, we can talk about precocious [00:42:30] puberty. Right, right. Uh, so- That's a whole... [00:42:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:42:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: another story. So when your periods start, [00:42:35] let's start learning how to do a proper self-breast exam so that you're familiar with your breasts, [00:42:40] and then they... [00:42:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: it's not like giving you the heebie-jeebies to do a self-exam when you're 45 and [00:42:45] your- [00:42:45] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:42:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: incidence is elevated enough so that you should be aware of your breasts. [00:42:50] Number two, all the science shows that the earlier you implement the amazing thing, like [00:42:55] cruciferous vegetable intake- [00:42:56] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... [00:42:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: dramatic decrease in, in breast cancer risk for [00:43:00] just cruciferous veggies, which is your broccoli, cauliflower, kale, arugula, Brussels [00:43:05] sprouts. [00:43:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, intake as a teenager is, has [00:43:10] like a 50% reduction in premenopausal breast cancer. It's pretty incredible. [00:43:13] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:43:14] Dr. Kristi Funk: So- [00:43:14] Dr. Taz: Wait, every [00:43:15] teenager needs to know this. Yeah. Say that again. Okay. Make sure all the moms that are listening- ... replay this [00:43:20] over and over and over again on your children's phones. But anyways, say it again. [00:43:22] Dr. Taz: Right. Well, [00:43:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: cruciferous vegetable intake- Mm ... in [00:43:25] your teens and as an, as a young adult has been linked to a 50% decrease in breast- Wow ... [00:43:30] cancer risk. [00:43:30] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:43:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: Premenopausal. [00:43:31] Dr. Taz: Eat your vegetables. [00:43:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: Eat your veggies. Mom was right- [00:43:35] Right ... again. Exercise. Get it into a routine so that it's [00:43:40] normal for you, that there is this idea of, you know, being sedentary [00:43:45] i- is never an idea. [00:43:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. We should always be active. For [00:43:50] sure, children prior to college need an hour a day We as adults, [00:43:55] we need about five hours a week if it's [00:44:00] exercise that you can have a conversation with your buddy about, right? So if you're speed walking, but you [00:44:05] can talk about the office drama, then- [00:44:07] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:44:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: you need five hours a week. [00:44:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay. If it's super sweaty, vigorous [00:44:10] exercise, as defined by a little bit hard to have a- Right ... complete sentence, two and a [00:44:15] half hours a week. [00:44:15] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:44:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: So that is- That's doable ... is your markers. It's very doable- Right ... especially if you're [00:44:20] gonna be super sweaty, we're talking about 20- Right ... two minutes a day. [00:44:22] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:44:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: But as a [00:44:25] child ... Well, I'm getting so old now that, like, a 20-year-old seems like a child. [00:44:30] Um, f- Oh my gosh ... in your teens and early adulthood- Mm-hmm ... [00:44:35] exercise should be part of the routine so that you're already reaping, like, the dopamine hits- Yeah ... and benefits. Like, you [00:44:40] want to. Yeah. Right. Like, why wouldn't you exercise? [00:44:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. It seems crazy that you wouldn't, right? [00:44:42] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:44:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: So now we're body [00:44:45] aware, specifically breast aware. We're eating m- more vegetables- Mm-hmm ... and [00:44:50] we're moving more. Then we get into what do we do in the doctor's office. In your [00:44:55] 20s, your gynecologist or internist, whomever you see, every three years you need a [00:45:00] doctor's breast exam. [00:45:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: Starting at age 30, I want [00:45:05] it to be every year. [00:45:06] Dr. Taz: Okay. That's a good tip. I hope everyone's taking notes. Every, [00:45:10] every year starting at age 30. [00:45:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yes. [00:45:12] Dr. Taz: Okay [00:45:15] [00:45:15] Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, some strong data suggests that both self-exam and clinical breast exams are useless when it [00:45:20] comes to breast cancer mortality. [00:45:21] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:22] Dr. Kristi Funk: And that's simply 'cause people [00:45:25] aren't good at it. [00:45:25] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: That's all that is, and I think it's really patronizing, [00:45:30] and I don't like hearing that because I have way too many astute clinicians who have sent a [00:45:35] patient, "I'm not sure it's something, but just go see Dr. Funk." [00:45:37] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:45:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: And lo and behold, that [00:45:40] doctor just saved your life possibly. Yeah Or you saved your own life. [00:45:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. I have so many women [00:45:45] coming in- [00:45:45] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:45:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: with a lump they f- found themselves. I [00:45:47] Dr. Taz: found mine. I found mine on my own. [00:45:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: You did [00:45:50] say that, right? Yeah, yep. Yeah, so. So thankfully it wasn't cancer- Right ... but had it been- But it has to be [00:45:53] Dr. Taz: monitored [00:45:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: now, right? What if you [00:45:55] ascribe to like, oh, they say self-exam is useless- Right [00:45:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: so I guess what I'm feeling is not something. Right. You know, [00:46:00] ridiculous- Right ... train of thought. Mm-hmm. So the more early detection, [00:46:05] the lower the mortality rate. This is a fact. So why are we not employing these [00:46:10] fairly cheap and easy tools that have zero exposure, right? Right. We're not talking radiation or [00:46:15] injections of dye, et cetera. [00:46:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: Now we are. So enter age 40. [00:46:18] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:46:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: For normal [00:46:20] risk women, not those with a super strong family history, with genetic [00:46:25] mutations, with prior history of a biopsy that showed what we call a marker lesion that you would know [00:46:30] if you had, and it puts you at elevated risk to make a cancer one day. We change the screening [00:46:35] recommendations for that category of women to s- usually start younger [00:46:40] or more frequent or more- Mm-hmm [00:46:42] Dr. Kristi Funk: more than mammogram and ultrasound. But [00:46:45] average age, average risk woman should start mammograms at [00:46:50] age 40. [00:46:51] Dr. Taz: 40. And you still like mammograms, and there's a lot of like chatter [00:46:55] about mammograms. [00:46:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mammograms cause breast cancer. Huh, and I still like them. [00:47:00] Weird. Why? You know, we use the tools we're [00:47:05] given, and this is what's happening with mammograms. [00:47:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: If you take 10,000 women and they get a mammogram [00:47:10] every single year between the ages of 40 and 74, in that period of time, [00:47:15] in those 10,000 women- You will [00:47:20] cause 8.6 cancers from the radiation, the repeat [00:47:25] radiation. [00:47:25] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:47:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: However, you will have found 860 [00:47:30] cancers. [00:47:30] Dr. Taz: So it's still worth it. [00:47:31] Dr. Kristi Funk: So it finds 100 times more- [00:47:34] Dr. Taz: [00:47:35] Mm-hmm [00:47:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: 100 times more- And I think that's [00:47:37] Dr. Taz: important, especially- ... than it [00:47:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: causes ... ' [00:47:39] Dr. Taz: cause women [00:47:40] latch on to, and I get this question all the time, you know, like, "Well, I heard mammograms cause cancer. Do [00:47:45] I have to do a mammogram?" You know? [00:47:46] Dr. Kristi Funk: And I always empower women with their own decision-making- Right ... but I [00:47:50] give them some stats. [00:47:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: So that's a good one to know. Okay. We're gonna find 100 times more cancers than we're gonna [00:47:55] cause. But you are right, mammograms do cause cancer, and there shouldn't be radiation involved- So [00:48:00] can they do- ... and yet there is ... [00:48:00] Dr. Taz: can they do an ultrasound? [00:48:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: They can. So let's look at the data [00:48:05] around that. Yeah. It is not as good at detecting cancer as the [00:48:10] combination of a mammogram and an ultrasound, but as a standalone in excellent [00:48:15] hands, so this is very tech-dependent, right? [00:48:17] Dr. Kristi Funk: An ultrasound is a probe in someone's [00:48:20] hand- Mm-hmm ... getting rolled over. There's also automated ultrasound- Mm-hmm ... which takes away the tech [00:48:25] dependence, but then it, uh, it's like a plate that has to be appl- you know- Right ... with uniform pressure, and then the thing [00:48:30] goes zshh. It just, like, automatically goes across the breast and gives you a movie as a [00:48:35] radiologist to read. [00:48:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: So it's still at some level human-dependent, 'cause we have to apply the device- Right ... and [00:48:40] then a human is reading the imaging. Mm-hmm. But the point is, in [00:48:45] excellent hands, ultrasound is an excellent tool for cancer detection, and I think it's equal with [00:48:50] mammography, but they see different things. [00:48:51] Dr. Taz: Interesting. [00:48:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: The one thing you will almost always, always miss when you [00:48:55] try to omit doing mammogram is DCIS. Ductal carcinoma in [00:49:00] situ is a stage zero cancer. It has no ability to [00:49:05] spread- Mm ... so it is never treated with chemo, and it i- has no hope of ever killing you. [00:49:09] Dr. Taz: [00:49:10] Mm. [00:49:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: So in other words, our earliest, most- Um, [00:49:15] curable cancer is missed, is skipped over when you're doing only [00:49:20] ultrasound or hands-on exams, or even MRI as your screening, because the [00:49:25] only modality that reliably finds it is mammogram. [00:49:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, someone [00:49:30] out there listening to this will be like, "Well, I had DCS and it was found by-" Right ... there are about 5% of DCS can be [00:49:35] a palpable lump, and if it's palpable, that means it could be visible then on ultrasound or MRI. But- [00:49:39] Dr. Taz: [00:49:40] All right. Let's talk about DCIS for a second, 'cause you just brought that up. [00:49:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. I remember interviewing an expert not [00:49:45] too long ago who talked about DCIS and said, A, we're over-diagnosing it [00:49:50] here in the United States compared to Europe and other countries around the world, and B, that [00:49:55] DCIS is not really cancer, it's because it's localized, and we are [00:50:00] over-treating it. So we're both over-diagnosing and over-treating. [00:50:02] Dr. Taz: What do you say to that, out of curiosity? And what does the [00:50:05] s- again, what does the science say as well? Okay. So. [00:50:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: I agree almost. [00:50:09] Dr. Taz: [00:50:10] Okay. [00:50:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: So the only part I disagree with is that DCS is cancer [00:50:15] So to call it not cancer is just trying to calm the woman down, because what you actually mean to [00:50:20] say is, "This isn't gonna kill you." [00:50:21] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:50:22] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right? You feel like you hear cancer and you think, "Ah, my life is in the balance." I die. Right. [00:50:25] Right, right, right. Right? I could die from this. Right. I could die. [00:50:26] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:50:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: Hopefully you're not thinking, "I am gonna die," but the point is [00:50:30] DCIS can never kill you, so stop calling it cancer. But that's just because we link the word cancer [00:50:35] with possibly dying. [00:50:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: That's all that is. What is DCIS? Yes, we [00:50:40] over-diagnosis. Yes, we over... Yes, we over-diagnose it, and yes, we [00:50:45] over-treat it. So let's talk about it so you... You'll totally get it once I explain it. [00:50:48] Dr. Taz: Okay. Okay. Go for it. [00:50:50] Just go for it. [00:50:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: So we've got these milk ducts, right? They're like little tubes, like [00:50:55] spaghetti tubes. [00:50:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. And the inside is supposed to have a single-cell lining. Right. When the cells get crowded and [00:51:00] crowded and crowded and they fill the duct tube and widen it by two millimeters or more, [00:51:05] boom, that's the diagnosis of breast cancer. [00:51:07] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:51:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: Ductal carcinoma in situ, standing in [00:51:10] place is what in situ means. [00:51:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: So you have this circular tube intact with [00:51:15] c- cells that have been transformed into cancer. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the DNA is [00:51:20] altered. But they can't get outside the duct wall, so they can never access lymphatics or [00:51:25] bloodstream and spread. [00:51:25] Dr. Taz: Mm. Okay. [00:51:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: So it is very easily treated and cured [00:51:30] by cutting it out. However, data will show about a 40% [00:51:35] recurrence in the surrounding breast tissue unless you radiate after cutting it [00:51:40] out. [00:51:40] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:51:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, this can get much more precise about you and your [00:51:45] DCIS and the genomics of your DCIS, the actual, like, fingerprint- [00:51:50] Mm-hmm ... of your personal cancer. We run it through diagnostic testing and instead [00:51:55] of being broad-based numbers of 40% recurrence without radiation, [00:52:00] 4% recurrence if you do radiate, we actually have your DNA numbers. [00:52:04] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:52:05] [00:52:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: And it could be even higher than that. Like, it's 65% chance if you don't radiate. But [00:52:10] m- a lot of the time it's ex- like s- exactly like this: 7% chance of [00:52:15] recurrence if you radiate, 7% chance if you don't. [00:52:18] Dr. Taz: Huh. [00:52:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: Boom. We just [00:52:20] eliminated even the stress and thought about needing radiation for you- Right [00:52:23] Dr. Kristi Funk: because it's not gonna be helpful. [00:52:24] Dr. Taz: Gotcha. [00:52:24] Dr. Kristi Funk: So [00:52:25] that is how, perfect example, of over-treatment. We [00:52:30] over-treat every... Again, when I say things like every, there's always individualization in [00:52:35] conversations, but if you just, standard of care- Right ... for your average woman. [00:52:37] Dr. Taz: Right, blanket average. Yes. [00:52:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. Yeah. DCIS is [00:52:40] treated with lumpectomy followed by radiation versus mastectomy, [00:52:45] and not every DCIS needed that, so it's over-treatment. [00:52:48] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm. [00:52:50] Think about overdiagnosis. That's [00:52:55] because, listen to this, DCIS can regress and disappear. [00:53:00] So you went and found it when it was on its way to going, going, [00:53:05] gone. Mm. But now we found it, so now we're gonna treat it. [00:53:07] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:53:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: There was a [00:53:10] brilliant study, 'cause it was a cadaver study, looking at 854 women who [00:53:15] had died without a living diagnosis of breast cancer. [00:53:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: So we have [00:53:20] double that, 1,700 breasts that they looked at. This is gonna blow your mind. In [00:53:25] women who were 40 to 50 years old- [00:53:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:53:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: guess how many of the breasts had [00:53:30] DCIS? [00:53:32] Dr. Taz: 30%. [00:53:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: That's such a great guess. [00:53:35] 39. Oh, [00:53:35] Dr. Taz: I'm good. [00:53:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: You are really good. [00:53:37] Dr. Taz: So... [00:53:37] Dr. Kristi Funk: But that's still higher than what I would [00:53:39] Dr. Taz: think. [00:53:40] [00:53:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: That's so [00:53:40] Dr. Taz: high. [00:53:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: Then look at the 50 to 70-year-olds. Guess [00:53:45] how many of them had DCIS? Oh my gosh. [00:53:46] Dr. Taz: I'm gonna mess up my record here. I'm gonna say 40% on this one. [00:53:50] [00:53:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: 10. [00:53:52] Dr. Taz: 10? [00:53:53] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:53:55] 75% of DCIS magically regresses. When? Oh, when we cross over the threshold of menopause, [00:54:00] it seems like. So [00:54:00] Dr. Taz: do we even need to be treating it? [00:54:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:54:05] Now thankfully we have genomics, so we can get in... [00:54:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: When I get a core biopsy back of DCIS, before we [00:54:10] even decide on the definitive- Right, [00:54:11] Dr. Taz: right ... [00:54:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: next steps, I do this genomic analysis- To make that [00:54:15] decision ... of the DCIS to help us understand- Yeah. Okay ... like how mad is this DCIS? Because we have [00:54:20] a- about, in other literature, we're gonna land more safely to [00:54:25] say one third of all DCIS progresses. [00:54:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: It eventually grows and [00:54:30] grows, breaks through that duct wall that I was saying- Mm-hmm ... was the- Mm-hmm ... thing containing it from getting into [00:54:35] blood vessels or lymphatics. It breaks it, it becomes invasion. Mm. Now we're into stages one, [00:54:40] two, three, four. [00:54:40] Dr. Taz: Got it. [00:54:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay? [00:54:41] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:54:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: T- 30%, a third will break the duct wall and in- [00:54:45] invade. [00:54:46] Dr. Kristi Funk: Two thirds either stays put or disappears. We are- [00:54:49] Dr. Taz: And those are [00:54:50] usually the zeros or the ones, but the twos and threes are invasive, correct? [00:54:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:54:55] So one is invasive also. One is invasive also. It just hasn't gone to any lymph nodes yet- Okay ... thankfully. [00:54:59] Dr. Taz: Gotcha. [00:54:59] Dr. Kristi Funk: So the [00:55:00] stage zero DCIS- [00:55:01] Dr. Taz: Uh-huh ... [00:55:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: one third will eventually break the wall and become [00:55:05] invasion. [00:55:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: Two thirds of all D- okay, we diagnose around 60,000 women with [00:55:10] DCIS year after year after year. This year, 20,000, thank goodness we figured it [00:55:15] out 'cause it was going to invade and that would be a bigger threat. The other- Right ... 40,000- [00:55:19] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:55:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: [00:55:20] lumpectomies, radiation, mastectomies, anti-estrogen pills, putting them into premature [00:55:25] menopause and misery for nothing. [00:55:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm. For nothing. Hurts [00:55:28] Dr. Taz: my [00:55:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: stomach. So [00:55:30] yes to your initial question, we over-diagnose and we over-treat, [00:55:35] and it is causing a world of psychosocial, emotional, physical hurt and [00:55:40] harm. [00:55:40] Dr. Taz: So if you're a woman diagnosed with stage zero DCIS, which I have to go back and check, I think my mom [00:55:45] actually was diagnosed with that, but where, who do they turn to to get the right [00:55:50] counsel on this? [00:55:51] Dr. Taz: I know they come to my practice. I know a lot of them are [00:55:55] over-treated, exactly what you mentioned there. [00:55:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. [00:55:57] Dr. Taz: Who do you go to? I mean, are you seeing [00:56:00] everyone? You're gonna see every- I see all of you. All the women around the world, come see [00:56:05] Dr. Funk. I mean, what, how do you find someone who's thinking this way?[00:56:10] [00:56:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: I find it difficult to find like-minded colleagues- [00:56:15] Right ... but not impossible. So women, if you're in this situation, [00:56:20] while I can't see everyone and I would love to- Right, right, right ... and I don't work on charities [00:56:25] either, so I get- Right ... that it's not always affordable. [00:56:27] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:56:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: But I am accessible via Zoom. [00:56:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: Like, I am [00:56:30] happy to review cases and provide advice. Well, [00:56:32] Dr. Taz: there's also your energy, right? Speaking of stress, like, we [00:56:35] have to ... There's only so much energy. So- [00:56:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. So [00:56:40] women, keep calling. Try to find a community online and figure [00:56:45] out who that person's doctor was. Hopefully, they're, you know, in your- Right [00:56:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: ZIP code radius. Right. Uh, keep [00:56:50] asking. Fi- if you have an integrative medicine doctor- Mm-hmm ... hopefully that [00:56:55] doctor has- Has a [00:56:55] Dr. Taz: community ... [00:56:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: has a community and a- Right ... referral base for you. Just keep searching because it [00:57:00] can't be that far away between where you are and where that person is. [00:57:02] Dr. Taz: And I think it keeps coming back to this issue [00:57:05] around women's health in general. [00:57:06] Dr. Taz: Like, get two, three, four opinions if you need to. [00:57:10] Like, really do the work. Don't, don't make that first stop and be like, "Okay, this is what I'm doing." I think [00:57:15] it really needs ... You have to be your own advocate still and really d- kind of dig in overall. Right. [00:57:20] Now, you brought something up. We talked about the younger women, what they can and cannot do. [00:57:23] Dr. Taz: We even talked about teenagers, who I'm sure are gonna, [00:57:25] like, roll their eyes as they listen to this. But, you know, let's talk about the women [00:57:30] that are truly getting impacted more consistently with this, and this is women 40 and above- [00:57:35] Mm-hmm ... 50 and above. And you mentioned hormone replacement therapy, which is- Mm-hmm [00:57:38] Dr. Taz: all the rage right now, [00:57:40] right? Mm-hmm. We went from no hormones, no hormones with the Women's Health Initiative to now, like, everyone's on a patch and a [00:57:45] pill, and, and that's, like, the gold standard. [00:57:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. [00:57:48] Dr. Taz: What's happening when it comes to [00:57:50] breast cancer with all of this conversation? [00:57:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay. Here's the soundbite that you [00:57:55] need to know- Mm [00:57:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: and then we can dive into some facts and details. [00:57:57] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:57:58] Dr. Kristi Funk: Here's the soundbite [00:58:00] Menopause hormone therapy can and [00:58:05] does cause and promote breast cancer. [00:58:10] However, it almost uniformly does so few and far between. [00:58:15] The rates are not that high, and when a cancer [00:58:20] is diagnosed, it is almost uniformly a less aggressive, more curable [00:58:25] subtype, so much so that the data shows women diagnosed with breast cancer [00:58:30] while on MHT- [00:58:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:58:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: have about a 50% drop in [00:58:35] mortality- [00:58:36] Dr. Taz: Interesting ... [00:58:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: relative to the same woman who's diagnosed with a similar [00:58:40] cancer not on MHT. In other words, to put that into just easier numbers- Right ... for [00:58:45] people- Right ... 'cause percentages can torture you. [00:58:47] Dr. Taz: Right. Right, right. [00:58:48] Dr. Kristi Funk: A one in [00:58:50] 10 chance of dying with your breast cancer diagnosis becomes a one in 20 [00:58:55] chance if you were on MHT. [00:58:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: That is a 50% drop in mortality. [00:58:58] Dr. Taz: Why? What's the [00:59:00] sci- what, what's happening there? [00:59:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: So one [00:59:05] of the drivers for 80% of all breast cancers is estrogen. [00:59:09] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:59:10] [00:59:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: There are receptors on the outside and inside of cells. Then when [00:59:15] estrogen hits that receptor, it sends a signal to the cancer to multiply and divide. [00:59:20] But estrogen-driven cancers are inherently less [00:59:25] aggressive than estrogen negative ones, so much so that, [00:59:30] again, with rare exception, an estrogen negative cancer, so there's no [00:59:35] receptor for estrogen, is treated with chemo. [00:59:38] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:59:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: Your [00:59:40] ticket out of chemo card requires estrogen receptors. [00:59:45] [00:59:45] Dr. Taz: Interesting. Okay. [00:59:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: There's no estrogen negative cancer that's not gonna have a chemotherapy [00:59:50] discussion. Now, when it's a one millimeter thing- Right ... if the patient is 80. I mean, again- [00:59:54] Dr. Taz: [00:59:55] Right ... [00:59:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: I always feel like I have to give qualifiers 'cause- Right, right [00:59:57] Dr. Kristi Funk: someone's gonna come out with the one story. Right, right. But I'm talking [01:00:00] very big- [01:00:00] Dr. Taz: Generally, [01:00:01] Dr. Kristi Funk: right ... big numbers of general- Right, right ... this is how it goes down. So it [01:00:05] generally is that estrogen negative cancers are our most [01:00:10] aggressive, least curable subtypes of cancer. Hmm. Doesn't mean they're incurable, but they, you know, we throw [01:00:15] a lot at them, including chemotherapy and immunotherapy, and with estrogen positive it's [01:00:20] less aggressive. [01:00:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: So- Here's the reality that I [01:00:25] have studied, and I know the science supports this. [01:00:30] Again, the numbers are few, and we can talk exactly what they are. But [01:00:35] estrogen, like it or not, is mutagenic and carcinogenic. [01:00:39] Dr. Taz: [01:00:40] Hmm. [01:00:40] Dr. Kristi Funk: It- [01:00:40] Dr. Taz: All estrogen? Premarin versus our estrogen versus [01:00:45] bio-identical estrogen versus estriol. All estrogen? [01:00:48] Dr. Kristi Funk: All of them. [01:00:50] Not phytoestrogen, plant-based estrogen, what you're getting from soy, your [01:00:55] isoflavones like genistein and daidzein- Mm-hmm ... the lignans you're getting in flax, et cetera. [01:01:00] All of those estrogens. Now, some are worse than others- [01:01:02] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [01:01:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: in the formulation. [01:01:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:01:03] Dr. Kristi Funk: Like, we know that [01:01:05] medroxyprogesterone acetate- Right [01:01:06] Dr. Kristi Funk: which is the progesterone- Oreck, yeah ... used in the WHI. Yep, yep. It's, you [01:01:09] Dr. Taz: know. Yeah. [01:01:10] [01:01:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mutagenic and carcinogenic. These are fancy [01:01:15] words. Mutagens alter the DNA, the base pair. It's t- altered, and now the [01:01:20] cell is, like, permanently deranged as cancer. Carcinogenic [01:01:25] changes the cell cycle and the way it's moving [01:01:30] through its one cell becoming two, and it's potentially, like, [01:01:35] reverse. [01:01:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: You can deal with it. Mm-hmm. But mutagenic is like w- you ruin that one. Right. Right? Right, right. [01:01:40] Okay. So estrogen has the capacity... It's both these things, [01:01:45] and this has been shown in science. So but [01:01:50] how does that translate into numbers in people? So let's use the WHI even though it's [01:01:55] a terrible study. It's been thrown out. [01:01:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right, right, right. Right? So w- the data still is the data [01:02:00] for the terrible reality of the... who they... Right? So we had zero [01:02:05] participants under the age of 50. Right. 10% were 50 to 50 ur- years old. Right. 67% were [01:02:10] over the age of 60. [01:02:11] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:02:11] Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay. 35% were obese. [01:02:15] It, it's insane. [01:02:16] Dr. Taz: And we didn't pay attention to that. [01:02:17] Dr. Taz: That's a huge- [01:02:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: In a time- ... number ... in the 1990- [01:02:20] Right, yeah ... when 12% of Americans were obese, they managed to triple the number and put those into the study. In the study. [01:02:25] Yeah. [01:02:25] Dr. Taz: Wow. Okay. [01:02:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: So 70% were overweight or obese, just like we are now in America. But [01:02:30] back then- Yeah ... that was, that- Right ... you had to work at that. [01:02:32] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:02:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: 35% were actively be t- being treated [01:02:35] for hypertension. [01:02:35] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:02:37] Dr. Kristi Funk: Like 14% had already had [01:02:40] an osteoporotic fracture. This is an, an unhealthy- These are sicker [01:02:43] Dr. Taz: women, yeah. [01:02:44] Dr. Kristi Funk: These are [01:02:45] sicker women- Yeah ... and the whole thing was that the enrollment was geared toward trying to see if MHT [01:02:50] caused accelerated heart- Right [01:02:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: attacks, right? Right. And so they want- they didn't have all [01:02:55] day, like- Right ... meaning an entire lifetime to wait. Right. They wanted to see people on the verge of heart attack. Right, right, right, right. And let's put half of them on hormones and half [01:03:00] of you not, right? Right. So this is the perfect population. [01:03:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: So the only thing that re- that as it relates to [01:03:05] breast cancer that the WHI tells me is what is the risk of [01:03:10] giving an overweight... Oh, 50% were smokers. [01:03:14] Dr. Taz: Come on, guys. [01:03:15] [01:03:15] Dr. Kristi Funk: Current or former smokers. Oh, man. So what is the risk of getting breast [01:03:20] cancer if you put a 60-something overweight hypertensive [01:03:25] smoker on hormones that her body has not seen in a decade? [01:03:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: In a [01:03:28] Dr. Taz: decade, [01:03:28] Dr. Kristi Funk: right. Yeah. And [01:03:30] even then, here's the answer: one out of every [01:03:35] 1,250. [01:03:35] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:03:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: What, what? 1,250 women on hormones, one will get a [01:03:40] cancer she would not- That's enough. Now, prior to the WHI earthquake, [01:03:45] which hit the world in July 2002, there was a [01:03:50] collaborative analysis in 1997 of all the [01:03:55] major studies. 90% of every study ever done looking at hormones and breast cancer was put [01:04:00] into this collaborative working group's analysis. [01:04:02] Dr. Kristi Funk: So they looked at 51 studies- Mm-hmm ... on [01:04:05] the subject. And what they found is that for every thousand women [01:04:10] not on hormones, you have 45 cancers. So that's our baseline risk, 45 out [01:04:15] of 1,000. If you're on hormone replacement for five years, you're gonna [01:04:20] add two more cancers- Mm ... so 47 out of 1,000, right? If you're on [01:04:25] hormones for 10 years, it's six more cancers. [01:04:28] Dr. Taz: So that's where the 10-year mark [01:04:30] came [01:04:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: from. 15 years- Yeah, okay ... 12 more cancers. Okay, so let's stop there. 15 [01:04:35] years of hormone replacement, 12 more cancers is a 1.2% [01:04:40] increase. [01:04:43] Dr. Kristi Funk: So [01:04:43] Dr. Taz: It's not [01:04:44] Dr. Kristi Funk: It's not that [01:04:45] high ... [01:04:45] Dr. Taz: that high. [01:04:46] Dr. Kristi Funk: And then when you do get a cancer- [01:04:48] Dr. Taz: It's better ... [01:04:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: it's kinda wimpy at [01:04:50] killing you. [01:04:51] Dr. Taz: So for all the women in perimenopause and menopause that are [01:04:55] going on hormones, what would be your cautionary advice, [01:05:00] or what would you like them to do now- when you're looking at this from a breast cancer [01:05:05] standpoint? [01:05:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: Excellent. So from a breast cancer standpoint, I always look at women's risk [01:05:10] for the things that are likely to kill them, which ironically is not breast cancer. It's gonna be their [01:05:15] heart disease, their stroke, their Alzheimer's. W- probably cancer comes before, you know- Mm-hmm ... [01:05:20] our major killer is heart disease. [01:05:21] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm. Number two is cancer. Right. Right. And our number one, breast, you know, [01:05:25] it- breast is the most common cancer. Lungs still kills us more often. [01:05:30] But the point is, what is your baseline risk? How much of that risk [01:05:35] can we, and are you willing to, manipulate through diet and lifestyle choices to offset then [01:05:40] this teeny tiny risk that we might be adding for hormones? [01:05:42] Dr. Kristi Funk: Because I'm thinking [01:05:45] benefit of hormone replacement outweighs- Outweighs ... risk- [01:05:48] Dr. Taz: Yes ... [01:05:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: for the vast [01:05:50] majority. And I'm not just then talking about the m- things that she dies from. [01:05:55] Right. Right? So yes, we know MHT, when started particularly within [01:06:00] six years, but up to 10 years within the change- [01:06:03] Dr. Taz: Right ... [01:06:03] Dr. Kristi Funk: starting it is [01:06:05] protective against heart disease, provided you don't have any underlying heart disease- Right [01:06:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: to begin with, [01:06:10] and it's obviously very protective against osteoporosis and more importantly- Yeah ... the [01:06:15] impending osteoporotic fracture. A New England Journal of Medicine article just last year [01:06:20] showed that one in three women over the age of 65 who get an, will get an osteoporotic [01:06:25] fracture- And die from it in the next 12 months. [01:06:28] Dr. Taz: Mm. Mm, mm, mm. [01:06:30] [01:06:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: So this is a serious threat to life, and just morbidity, [01:06:35] right? The f- hip fracture is no walk in the park, even if you don't die from it. [01:06:38] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:06:39] Dr. Kristi Funk: It can [01:06:40] create a lot of disability and, you know, there goes your, your favorite [01:06:45] pickleball sport- My- Right? Okay. So we look at that. What is, uh... So I n- wanna protect your heart, [01:06:50] I wanna protect your bones, I wanna protect you from colon [01:06:55] cancer. [01:06:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: We know that that's, is so well-made, it contributed- Right. And your brain, [01:06:58] Dr. Taz: right? Like, the [01:06:58] Dr. Kristi Funk: brain. Okay. Yeah. So the brain stuff [01:07:00] is so all over the place. So all over the place- Yeah ... with the literature, and I'm really [01:07:05] looking at the Lisa Mosconi paper- I know. I had that [01:07:08] Dr. Taz: word in my [01:07:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: head ... all to, "Give me the [01:07:10] answer, please." [01:07:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I think- Uh-huh ... if I understand even her data correctly- Yeah, [01:07:15] yeah ... we're looking at windows of opportunity to start MHT. Correct. Yeah. And we're still [01:07:20] not sure what it means because while we know starting it six years after menopause has [01:07:25] complete- you know, s- since the change happened, is detrimental in terms of [01:07:30] dementia. [01:07:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: There's the protective window of that first six years, but then there's new data that looked at [01:07:35] starting it at age 50, and it still had about- Right ... a 20% increase in dementia. So [01:07:40] clearly, I think we just need the aha reality- Right ... that we had with heart [01:07:45] disease. We had the same data with heart disease. [01:07:47] Dr. Kristi Funk: Sometimes it increased it, sometimes it decreased it. Oh, [01:07:50] I'm pulling my hair out, I'm so confused. Well, confusion has lifted. Right. We now understand. If you have under... [01:07:55] Estrogen replacement, so helpful. So stupid. Estrogen's not that [01:08:00] smart. Right. So if you already have arterial plaque, it's like, "Oh, we're building plaque. [01:08:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: Let me help you." [01:08:05] Yeah, yeah. Estrogen piles on more, so it makes heart attack rates go up. [01:08:08] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:08:08] Dr. Kristi Funk: But if your arteries are [01:08:10] already clear, then estrogen's like, "I gotcha, girl." Yep. "Give me room. I'm gonna sweep- Let me get you balanced ... these arteries clean." [01:08:15] Yeah. Right? So we have to look for the aha moment when it comes to [01:08:20] dementia. [01:08:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, and we'll get there. We're not there yet, so I'm a little [01:08:25] cautionary For those who have strong family history of dementia and Alzheimer's, and you know, does it have to do with the [01:08:30] APOE gene and not, and that's a very infrequent thing anyway. Right, right. Like, where is it? What is it? There's something [01:08:35] in addition to the hormone, it, that either you lack it and it's gonna be protective against [01:08:40] dementia, or you have it and the hormones are gonna contribute to dementia. [01:08:43] Dr. Taz: I wonder, and I don't [01:08:45] have research articles to quote, but now I'm gonna start looking at this in practice. I wonder if it all [01:08:50] goes back to those two words, if it all goes back to- Oxidative stress ... oxidative stress and inflammation. If those are [01:08:55] already preexisting within you, and then we layer on hormones on top of that, do we add [01:09:00] fire, fuel to fire, right? [01:09:01] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Versus if we did it the other way around, where we [01:09:05] manage the oxidative stress and the inflammation, and then added hormones. Right. So that would [01:09:10] be super interesting to look at, you know? So- I can't wait [01:09:12] Dr. Kristi Funk: till we figure it out. I, we're on the cusp- Yeah ... 'cause there's a, a ground [01:09:15] swell of interest- Right, right [01:09:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: and demand. Right. So we will figure it out, we being the collective. [01:09:19] Dr. Taz: Co- [01:09:20] the collective. Yes. It takes all of us. [01:09:21] Dr. Kristi Funk: But I wanna finish one other thought- Yeah ... which is the, so I, [01:09:25] my first line of thinking on the MHT was the stuff inside of you that you're [01:09:30] largely unaware of, right? You may have had a DEXA so you know your bone density, but I'm talking heart health, brain health- [01:09:35] Right [01:09:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: bone health, muscle strength. Mm-hmm, all of it, right. Okay. These are the big things that I'm [01:09:40] most worried about, whereas you're most worried about probably hot flashing your way to a divorce. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, [01:09:45] you are feeling insane, feeling like- Blowing everything up, yep. Mm-hmm ... yep, you've got the whole, you know- Yep [01:09:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: menopod [01:09:50] middle happening. Yep, [01:09:50] Dr. Taz: all of it. [01:09:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: All the things we know about, hot flashes, night sweats, vaginal dryness, mood swings, itchy skin, [01:09:55] thinning hair, insomnia, in, you know. Plus the weird things that are being brought to [01:10:00] light by so many great pioneers now, pushing, you know, this menopause [01:10:05] reality- Right, right [01:10:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: to the fore of our minds. So oh my gosh, the adult acne, the heart palpitations, the frozen [01:10:10] shoulders, everything. [01:10:10] Dr. Taz: It's [01:10:10] Dr. Kristi Funk: not normal. Right? It's all hormonal. Right. And menopause [01:10:14] Dr. Taz: fixes all of it. [01:10:15] Right. [01:10:15] Dr. Kristi Funk: So hopefully- your risk of breast cancer is not so [01:10:20] high that I can't, um, readily just espouse the [01:10:25] idea and be like, "Yeah, I'm cheerleading you on. [01:10:27] Dr. Kristi Funk: Go for it, go- Yeah ... get dosed with your OBGYN and [01:10:30] let's get you happy again." There are unfortunately women who [01:10:35] this is just too risky, either factually in my calculation, or emotionally for [01:10:40] them. [01:10:40] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:10:41] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, and others who don't see it as risk, they see it as [01:10:45] embracing a phase of life that their body is naturally moving into, and they want to [01:10:50] gently support themselves- Right [01:10:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: through this time, but prescriptions aren't their thing. [01:10:54] Dr. Taz: [01:10:55] Right. [01:10:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Well, does that mean misery is their thing? No. No. So I have so many [01:11:00] ideas through traditional Chinese medicine- Love it. [01:11:03] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [01:11:04] Dr. Kristi Funk: [01:11:05] through alternative... There, there are so many homeopathic things- So much ... that actually- Yeah ... actually work. [01:11:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:11:09] Dr. Kristi Funk: [01:11:10] So Phil, I, I g- that's when you do symptom [01:11:15] whack-a-mole, but not with prescriptions. [01:11:16] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. With things that are gentle on the body and actually work. So for [01:11:20] addressing hot flashes, here's my list of weapons, natural weapons for your hot flash. Talking about a dry [01:11:25] vagina, the, uh, that first list probably is not gonna work on the vagina. Yeah. So here's the second list. Right. Right, so- Right.[01:11:30] [01:11:30] Dr. Kristi Funk: Uh-huh ... I, sleep, I've got a great supplement and strategy for sleep For sleep ... obviously I have things for [01:11:35] sleep. But not all things work in all people. We all know this, so- Right ... we still have to keep [01:11:40] reanalyzing and re-strategizing until a woman feels completely supported and healthy and happy. [01:11:44] Dr. Taz: I mean, I [01:11:45] think overall this has been a hopeful conversation, 'cause even when we're talking about women and menopause, when [01:11:50] we're talking about younger women, when we're talking about an increased cancer incidence, there's a lot that we can [01:11:55] do, and it sounds like women can have their hormones, they just need to be healthy, you know? [01:11:58] Dr. Taz: And really [01:12:00] watching these markers of what gets us into trouble, not just with breast cancer, but with so many different conditions [01:12:05] that are out there today. What's the future, and you don't have to s- you know, you don't have to go [01:12:10] too deep, but I'm just curious. What is the future of breast cancer care and [01:12:15] treatment? [01:12:15] Dr. Taz: What are you seeing on the horizon? You know, what gets you excited about this field? [01:12:20] [01:12:20] Dr. Kristi Funk: Immunomodulation I think is on the horizon, and here. So immunotherapy- Right ... which [01:12:25] was usually just for end stage four and really subtype [01:12:30] triple negative cancers, has now been moved all the way up into the line of [01:12:35] defense, first line of defense for early stage cancer. [01:12:38] Dr. Kristi Funk: That's exciting because it works. [01:12:40] Mm. It's pretty miraculous. I have these triple negative cancers that we'll do [01:12:45] chemotherapy with immunotherapy prior to surgery. [01:12:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:12:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: And [01:12:50] between 70 to 90% of those cancers are gone- [01:12:54] Dr. Taz: Wow ... [01:12:54] Dr. Kristi Funk: by [01:12:55] the time we get to surgery. [01:12:56] Dr. Taz: With good long-term survival? Are we seeing good data around that? [01:12:59] Dr. Kristi Funk: We are. [01:12:59] Dr. Taz: [01:13:00] Okay. [01:13:00] Dr. Kristi Funk: So it directly correlates. The more toward- What's called a [01:13:05] PCR, path complete response. So when I do operate, let's say we do a lumpectomy where the clip [01:13:10] is, where the cancer used to be, and all we have is a clip and a bunch of, um, tumor bed, we call [01:13:15] it Right You can see the cancer used to be there, but there's no viable cells Mm. [01:13:18] Dr. Kristi Funk: If you get the coveted PCR, you [01:13:20] have the most excellent prognosis, and it kinda goes from there. The more cells that remain, the higher the risk of the recurrence. [01:13:25] That's one thing in cancer care that's really just exploded in the last five years, and we're [01:13:30] not done yet. Mm-hmm. So immunotherapy and immunomodulation would be drugs that [01:13:35] stoke your own immune system- Mm-hmm [01:13:36] Dr. Kristi Funk: to wake up and, uh, and annihilate a tumor [01:13:40] The other interesting thing is t- circulating tumor DNA, being [01:13:45] able to do a blood test- [01:13:46] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [01:13:46] Dr. Kristi Funk: to see one of two things. Either you already had a cancer, [01:13:50] breast cancer or any solid tumor, we're able to make a blood test unique to you, 'cause it's [01:13:55] out of your tumor's DNA mutations. [01:13:57] Dr. Taz: Fascinating. [01:13:58] Dr. Kristi Funk: We make this test, and then [01:14:00] draw your blood and run it through the test. Okay. If you are cured, you can't [01:14:05] have those tumor mutations. Those should be in a bucket in a lab somewhere, right? Right. No longer in you. [01:14:10] So this is how I monitor all of my cancer patients, with a very uniquely designed [01:14:15] tumor test. [01:14:15] Dr. Kristi Funk: And b- believe it or not, Medicare has approved this test- Oh, [01:14:18] Dr. Taz: wow. Okay ... [01:14:19] Dr. Kristi Funk: for [01:14:20] stage II and above. Okay. And usually when Medicare approves something, all the other insurances follow- Everyone else, right ... follow through. [01:14:24] Dr. Taz: Yep. [01:14:25] [01:14:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: And currently, the company I'm using, which is the one approved by Medicare, does [01:14:30] not charge people when their insurance denies this. [01:14:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm. So this isn't, like, a futuristic $10,000 a pop [01:14:35] study I'm talking about. Right, right. This is accessible by any woman here in America with cancer, and any solid tumor, [01:14:40] so men with prostate, any, any cancer. They do this test. What's the [01:14:43] Dr. Taz: name of it, if someone wants to ask their [01:14:45] doctor to do it? [01:14:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: The test is called Signatera. [01:14:46] Dr. Kristi Funk: Signatera. Like [01:14:47] Dr. Taz: signature. Okay, [01:14:49] Dr. Kristi Funk: okay. [01:14:50] Signatera. [01:14:50] Dr. Taz: Okay. [01:14:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: And so we run the blood through, and as long as it's [01:14:55] zero and there's none of those mutations seen, it could be that there's a cancer lurking, but it's so [01:15:00] low in quantity it doesn't reach the threshold of detection for the test. Mm. Hence, it's not a one [01:15:05] and done. [01:15:05] Dr. Kristi Funk: I keep testing them every three months for... We kinda make it up and go as [01:15:10] the patient wants, but for sure three years. But finally, this idea of [01:15:15] never being able to tell someone that you're cured goes away. There will, [01:15:20] we need a- There'll be [01:15:20] Dr. Taz: a cure. [01:15:21] Dr. Kristi Funk: Well, we can tell them they are cured, 'cause their blood is [01:15:25] zero. [01:15:25] Dr. Taz: Wow. [01:15:26] Dr. Kristi Funk: Not one time, but we, we'll figure it out. Like, it's still in evolution. [01:15:30] The company's been around- Right ... for a decade, but it's, um- Signatera ... we need a little more data. [01:15:33] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:15:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: And then we're gonna be able to [01:15:35] have the track record to be like, "Aha, your subtype, if you're zeros for, [01:15:40] say, 24 months, we know the chances of it coming back are, like, one in 1,000, and- [01:15:44] Dr. Taz: [01:15:45] Wow [01:15:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: you're fine." [01:15:45] Dr. Taz: This has been such a great conversation. I've been more excited about breast cancer [01:15:50] than ever before. This has been such a, like, hopeful, upbeat, positive, great things [01:15:55] happening type conversation, and the science is coming along, understanding where your spirit and your [01:16:00] lifestyle and all those other things fit into it, equally important. [01:16:03] Dr. Taz: So I really wanna thank you for [01:16:05] spending time helping us all understand this. It's so important. It's been so enlightening. [01:16:10] Talk to us or let, let us know what you're up to. What are you up to next? Just you. You, we were- No ... talking about the [01:16:15] fact that you have triplets. You run a practice. Right. You're an avid exerciser. [01:16:19] Dr. Taz: [01:16:20] You know, what's next for you? You've had a lot of roles over the, you know, the last few years or so as a physician, as a [01:16:25] leading physician, so talk to us a little bit about where your energy is going and what's next for you. [01:16:29] Dr. Kristi Funk: A lot of [01:16:30] energy is going into my Cancer Kicking Summit. Ooh. So this is really [01:16:35] fun. [01:16:35] Dr. Kristi Funk: Cancer Kicking Summit. The Cancer Kicking Summit is a three-day affair. All right. And, um, the [01:16:40] ones you can just, in the interest of being evergreen, pinklotus.com/summit- There you go ... will tell you- [01:16:44] Dr. Taz: [01:16:45] Okay ... [01:16:45] Dr. Kristi Funk: tell you where I'm going. Mm-hmm. Uh, but upcoming in May [01:16:50] 2025, I have one in Palm Springs, California, and one in Hot Springs, Arkansas.[01:16:55] [01:16:55] Dr. Taz: Oh, wow. [01:16:55] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yeah. [01:16:55] Dr. Taz: Okay. [01:16:56] Dr. Kristi Funk: Gotcha. And this is just a really [01:17:00] beautiful, transformative three-day weekend where I bring hundreds of women [01:17:05] together to really understand this actionable power, right? Mm-hmm. And this [01:17:10] idea that you can transform your life. You have agency over your health destiny, but let's be [01:17:15] practical about it. [01:17:15] Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. Like, what am I actually talking about? Right. Like, it's great to get the real top of the [01:17:20] mountain experience where you're so jazzed, and then you get home and [01:17:24] Dr. Taz: Real life [01:17:25] hits ... [01:17:25] Dr. Kristi Funk: real life hits. Right, yeah. Back to the grind. Right. The traffic is still there. The fridge is full of [01:17:30] carcinogenic food- Right [01:17:31] Dr. Kristi Funk: that I told you to get rid of. Right. Right. How do we do [01:17:34] Dr. Taz: this? Right. [01:17:34] Dr. Kristi Funk: [01:17:35] So it really, I use science, so the kind of twist on my summit, different [01:17:40] than other kind of- Right ... things that you would go to, is that I'm basing everything in research and [01:17:45] teaching you the research- Love it ... in a fun way so that you can digest it and be incentivized and not feel [01:17:50] like you're buying into some sort of like- Right [01:17:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: just idea. Right. But it's actually been tested and shown [01:17:55] that this matters for you. So in other words, I don't just talk about what to [01:18:00] eat and what not to eat. We dive deeper into exercise, into love and relationships, [01:18:05] and stress management, and forgiveness. Yep. We dive into learning, the pathways of the brain- Mm [01:18:09] Dr. Kristi Funk: [01:18:10] and thinking, and how much thought influences- Everything ... all of it. Yeah. Right? [01:18:15] And meditation is a whole entire focus that we have. Love it. There's [01:18:20] so much power in meditation. So there's a lot that we talk [01:18:25] about and then we have breakout sessions where you can pick what you wanna go a little deeper. I have [01:18:30] a two-hour menopause hormone therapy- I love it [01:18:32] Dr. Kristi Funk: breakout. I love [01:18:32] Dr. Taz: it. Mm-hmm. [01:18:33] Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, and then there's [01:18:35] activities and camaraderie. Yeah. It doesn't ha- it's definitely not- Community ... a cancer summit. [01:18:40] It's cancer kicking, whether you have it, had it, or never want it. So it's [01:18:45] really for everyone. It's a great... The Palm Springs one happens to be purposefully over Mother's Day [01:18:50] weekend- Ooh [01:18:50] Dr. Kristi Funk: 'cause I think it's [01:18:51] Dr. Taz: a great- That's great. [01:18:51] Dr. Kristi Funk: Yeah ... mom/daughter- [01:18:52] Dr. Taz: I love it ... [01:18:52] Dr. Kristi Funk: event. [01:18:53] Dr. Taz: I love it. Well, thank you so [01:18:55] much. Last question before I let you go, what makes you whole? We talk about [01:19:00] becoming whole, being on healing journeys. We know it's both science and spirit. We know it's numbers and your [01:19:05] emotions. What makes you whole? [01:19:07] Dr. Kristi Funk: What makes me whole is remembering that I only [01:19:10] have three passions in life, and nurturing each one of them every single day in some [01:19:15] capacity keeps me whole, and those three passions- I was gonna ask ... are a [01:19:20] strong foundational belief in God and nurturing that spiritual [01:19:25] relationship, loving my family, and killing cancer. [01:19:29] Dr. Taz: [01:19:30] Love it. Love it. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for [01:19:35] joining us. Thank you, Dr. Taz. I appreciate it.