Latest / Inside the Apothecary / #Ep04 - Hormones And The Menstrual Cycle - What Your Period Is Really Telling You
Transcript
- Jaime: Welcome to episode four of Inside the Apothecary. Today we're talking all things hormone. We're going to explain what is an actual regular normal menstrual cycle. How does it work? What is normal? What is not normal? What some of the signs that your cycle is out of balance? And why do we consider the period the fifth vital sign? MG Herbs: Thank you so much for being here with us today. If something in this episode resonated, just know there's always a way to explore it further and support your body the way it needs. You can find out more by going to the website nourishingapothecary.com or reach out if you're ready for more personalized care. Until next time, take care of yourself and keep listening to your body. Hey beautiful, I am so glad that you're here. Welcome to Inside the Apothecary, a space for real conversations about hormones, fertility and the body. Jaime: We're going to be going through different reproductive disorders. We're going to be going through things that impact your menstrual cycle, everything, everything in between. It's going to be a big one. And we are very excited because this is a topic we're very close and dear to our hearts. So my name is Jamie and I am joined with the beautiful Mel here today from Inside the Apothecary. So Mel, know what a big one. All right, so. MG Herbs: It's a one. because your body isn't broken, ⁓ it's communicating. take a breath, get comfortable and let's tune back into you. Jaime: Why don't you break us down and give us a rundown of the basics of the menstrual cycle? Because I really think there are as many women that don't quite understand how their body works. And this is important. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, know, when we first see someone, I say, Hey, how's your period? How's your cycle? How many days is your menstrual cycle? And they'll go, I bleed for four days. I bleed for five days. No, no, no. Do you know like how much? Cause the menstrual cycle is always happening, you know, when we're reproductively fertile. So from the first time we have our period, when we are in puberty, when we're going through that 11, 12, 13. sometimes maybe 14, but normally a little bit earlier these days. That is the start of our menstrual cycle. And obviously we have a monthly bleed, roughly monthly bleed until we go through the transition, which is menopause where we detox our oestrogen and we no longer are ⁓ vital. That sounds a bit shit, but you ⁓ menopause also got its pros. We'll do another episode on that. Jaime: Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: So we go through this cycle every single month and it has different phases. almost, you know, feeds on itself. Phase one, phase two, phase three, and then maybe phase four would be the bleed. And then it goes back to the start. And at each of those phases, we do different things. Our hormones are doing different things and we ideally are, you know, feeling well in all phases and it's feeding into that beautiful bleed. The normal timeframe for this is anywhere between 21 days, which obviously is on the shorter end of the cycle. And we do try and pull it out to a nice, you know, 25 to 28 days all the way through to 31, 32 days, I would say is fairly normal. And I would consider that normal when we see it. I don't know. Would you say that a cycle should be a specific amount of days? I feel like there's a lot of leeway. Jaime: Mm-hmm. Yes. ⁓ I think it's not so much that it should be a specific amount of days, it's that every month it should be the same amount of days. So there are some women that will consistently have a 25 day cycle or a 28 day cycle or a 30 day cycle. But I think if you start going 21 days one month, 31 days the next month, 25 days, and you start hopping around like that. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. Yes. Mm-hmm. Jaime: that's probably a sign that there's some type of hormonal imbalance is beginning, potentially happening. Right, so it's the consistency. MG Herbs: Mm. Yeah, yeah. And then. Yeah, I like that. That's because I'm saying, you know, you have a 21 to 35 day cycle, but yes, we want to see that that is consistent every single cycle. And then in your bleed phase, we want to see you kind of bleeding for no more than five days. I think anything over five days is just a drag. I don't like it. I don't want that for my women. I a nice clean tight window. Jaime: Yes. Yes. No, and I don't think it doesn't need to be necessary either. So I think it's just really important to understand that when we're counting a menstrual cycle with days, day one of your menstrual cycle is the first day you bleed properly. Right? So if you spot into your period for a few days, that's not day one. one is the day you properly bleed. ⁓ Then we count until the day before your next day one. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jaime: Right? So that's the full length of your menstrual cycle. That's what we're talking about here. So not like Mel said, it's not the amount of days that you bleed per month. Right? But also, oh, yeah, I was going to say back on that regularity aspect, I kind of want to see that you also bleed for the same amount of time each month, roughly. Right? So that's another thing, right? So our body is a bit like a clock, right? And like we said in our last episode, there's lots of different clocks. MG Herbs: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. I do... Oh, you go. Sorry. Exactly. Yeah. Jaime: lots of different rhythms and you want to see that your body is roughly behaving the same each month also. MG Herbs: it's a cyclic thing. We want each face to be really beautiful and the same amount and then flow into the next one. And then you have that nice tight, I don't want to see any spotting. ⁓ know, we talk about what's normal, what's not. I don't think spotting is normal. I think I want to get rid of that. I want to see a nice tight, clean bleed window. And then you go into that next phase of your cycle, which will include ovulation and to get that beautiful, the Jaime: Mm-hmm. ⁓ MG Herbs: biggest ovulation window in terms of like if we're talking fertility for a second, whole cycle needs to be consistent, regular, you know, ⁓ spotting, no pain, like all of those symptoms, I want to see them go on because they all will reflect on your ovulation window and affect it. Jaime: And so this is where I think it's really good to touch on the fact that we consider your period to be like that fifth vital sign. So do you want to talk a bit about that Mel? Because I think this is just such a cool, I love when they first started talking about this because I was like, yes, yeah. MG Herbs: Yeah. There's a book. There's an awesome book. And I actually, you know, this isn't my first rodeo in terms of podcasting. Little, little name drop. did do a podcast previously called the Naked Naturopath and I had the author of that book on there a number of times. So Lisa Hendrickson-Jack, yeah, she wrote the fifth vital sign. So awesome book. Highly recommend you read it if you want to know more about how a cycle can direct our health in general. Jaime: Oh my god, did you? Ah, amazing. Yeah. MG Herbs: And so your vital signs are like your blood pressure, they're your, um, you know, your pulse and temperature and one Jaime: temperature. ⁓ MG Herbs: one women, we've called your cycle the fifth vital sign, because it does reflect your inner health. If you have pain, we see that a symptom, you know, it's not ⁓ like, ⁓ it's very common. I'm not saying that these things aren't common, but they're not ⁓ normal. and they do reflect an issue. So we wanna fix it. We wanna regulate the cycle so there is no spotting, there is no pain. Jaime: think I really love the idea same as like Lara Brydon also had another book called The Period Repair Manual, which is another really great read if you're wanting to start learning a bit more about your menstrual cycle. And she called it the same sort of similar thing, but like your monthly report card. Right. So I think it's really important, right? Let's just bring it back and talk about what what should what should a period actually be like? Right? What should it be like? Right? Because then we can go into dysfunction, but I just want to paint the picture of what's possible, what we want to aim for. MG Herbs: Yeah. I think. I actually love for my women to not know their period's coming. Jaime: ⁓ I know I love it for it to be a surprise as well. I say that all the time. You should be like, ⁓ I got my period. That's what it should be like. MG Herbs: Surprise period. Mm-hmm. Not know when they're ovulating. I don't want ovulation pain. I don't want any kind of lead-in. I don't want them to be PMS-y or, you know, moody or anything. my gosh, I've had my beautiful, wonderful, perfect bleeders here. And I didn't even know. Like a gift. That's what I want for my women. Jaime: Yes. I always say to my clients, there shouldn't be drama. So I'm like, if you're feeling like a raging psycho drama, if you're getting so bloated and your boobs are really swollen drama, you're like MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. If you bleeding like flooding out of nowhere clots have pain Yeah, no, we want like a nice Romantic novel, you know something you can really settle down with it's just enjoyable Jaime: Drama, drama, drama, right? 100 % because you know what if we're gonna bleed every single month it shouldn't be that big a deal you should be like I got my period and go on with your day it shouldn't stop you in it shouldn't stop you in your tracks and make you bed bound and make you have time off work that my dears my dears is not normal right and MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah, our bodies are made to do this. ⁓ And you and I both have endometriosis. We are fully aware that these periods, you know, like the reason we want it for you is because we fully understand what it's like not to have it. So we're not saying you're doing anything wrong. We're just saying we want to make it awesome. We want to make it lovely for you. So regularity, consistency, no signs or symptoms really. Yes, you can know when it's going to come for sure. Like you can, you know, that's fine. Jaime: Yes we do. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yes. MG Herbs: but that's different to having like warning signs. Jaime: For sure, especially when it starts interrupting with your life. 100%. Right? Like that is definitely not normal. MG Herbs: Mm. Yeah, and cook. quality of life will definitely be reduced with a lot of those symptoms that we're talking about. So yes, a good period, the ghost period, the phantom period, the good period, not common in our work. Jaime: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Totally. And it's sad, honestly. And what really annoys me is like so many women come and see us, right? And they're like, I don't know if you could help me. know, like as naturopaths, you're like, well, I don't know what that could possibly be because honestly, like we see everything. ⁓ you know, I'm expecting it to be something super crazy and super complex and whatever. ⁓ they're like, I have really heavy periods or I have really painful periods. And I'm like, girl, like you are in the MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: place, this is our bread and butter, got you, it's all good. this honestly the part that really makes me so ⁓ sad because so many women have suffered for so long and the doctors have just told them go on the pill. Like ⁓ the Whereas ⁓ if doctors you that, I am literally like ⁓ welcome to giant dispensary of everything we have to help support you ⁓ and we'll on that more. But like ⁓ I just to put it out there firstly, very early on. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jaime: that there is absolutely hope and absolutely your body wants to be back in balance. Your body wants to produce these beautiful periods and so many of my clients I don't even I honestly last time amount of times people have said to me I didn't know my period could be like this ⁓ they've started us on the protocol I put them on ⁓ I didn't know you mean ⁓ like there no and I'm like yeah ⁓ I I know it's great MG Herbs: I love it when a patient is like, ⁓ Mel, it's urgent. I didn't get any ovulation pain. I'm not ovulating. I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's good. That's ideal. That doesn't mean you're not ovulating. Yeah, it means we've reduced all that repro inflammation that you were feeling. Like it's, it's a good thing. Or Mel, I didn't have any pain and my period just came out of nowhere. And it like, like I was like, what? There's no warning. And like, yeah, I get that that's like a bit stressful if you've always had plenty of warning, but. Jaime: That's what I was trying to do. ⁓ I know it's so I know and it's so weird. I know. Happy dance, happy dance. Okay, so let's talk about what are some things that could throw our cycle out of balance, right? Because like we said, it's this is something that moves, right? And our body is constantly like moving and changing. So whilst being in a regular cycle can mean your hormones are in balance. It also doesn't necessarily take much to throw us out of balance. MG Herbs: I'm like, yay, inside. I'm so happy. Yeah. So ideal. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jaime: Right, so what would you say are some of the big things you see now? ⁓ MG Herbs: We have Life, controls, that a balance. ⁓ but you know, I will often, my patients will say like, my period was going really well, like everything was great, you know, we got rid of this, that, that, that, but I had a cold or flu and then my period was a bit late or a bit painful or something. So infections for sure. Our immune systems, you know, related our hormonal kind of balance. Stress. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Jaime: And Al, just on that, just on elaborating the immune system, one thing I think is really interesting is your immune system will dip just before your period. you are more likely to also get sick just before your period. ⁓ again, like Mel was saying, really intertwined, big one, ⁓ And ⁓ also. You saying stress? ⁓ MG Herbs: Mm Yeah. stress. So if you have a more stressful month, that may be reflected in inflammation in your bleed. So you could have a more painful period. Jaime: And you know what I think is really funny? ⁓ you know what we didn't touch on? Let's just circle back to the beginning. Well, our periods, our hormones were on a three month cycle, right? Because that's the life cycle of your egg is three months, So let's just strip it back because I just want to make sure we're really clear on this, right? So you have your menstrual cycle, which is the start of your menstrual cycles when you bleed, ⁓ Then the first half of your cycle up into when you ovulate, that's the follicular phase. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yes. Jaime: then you have ovulation, which should be in the middle, and then you have the luteal phase, which is then the last bit before you bleed again. So that's when you then bleed. So that's the entire length of your menstrual cycle, but we are on this 90 day ⁓ kind of cycle. Right? So often, if you're, say what Mel was saying, right? So yes, if you're stressed, that next period might be more heavy or more painful, but... ⁓ I often say to my clients, if that particular period that they're having right now is really crazy, it's actually quite often a reflection of what happened three months ago. And that is what people, that's what people don't also don't realize. So I always, I think it's so funny, I talk to my clients in January, February, March every year. I'm like, hey, heads up your period, your next period might be a bit more crazy, hectic, MG Herbs: They've been storing it up. Hmm. Jaime: And I say this in December, I start warning them. I'm like, don't be scared if it's crazier because during Christmas and November, December, people are more stressed. They're not eating in patterns. They're eating more, drinking more, partying more, all the fun stuff, but often a lot of stress. And so therefore three months later, it's often not a fun story. And that's okay. It comes back, but it's really common. Right? So again, like we were saying, MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Jaime: It's often not like what happened right now, but it can be what happened three months ago. I have a really good example of this, which I think is just a perfect way to kind of illustrate this. One of my clients booked in a consultation with me and she was like, look, I am so in touch with my body and understanding my hormones, but I've noticed something's getting off in the last couple of months. And I'm like, interesting. Okay. She's like, it's starting to get weird. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah. So we're going through it. ⁓ then I was like, MG Herbs: Hmm. I'm interested. Jaime: Okay, so when did this start going weird? And she goes, I was two months ago. And I said, Okay, what was happening five months ago? Right? Because from the two months when it started going weird, I want to know what was happening three months before that. And she goes, ⁓ she said, My brother was in a very serious car accident. He was in ICU. We didn't think he was going to make it. ⁓ wasn't eating. ⁓ was stressed out of my mind. And said, MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: there it is. So I said, that's okay, I'll put you on herbs to get your hormones back in balance. And then sure enough, her periods disappeared. Because I said, like, and I said, this is because of what happened. It's okay. her periods end up disappearing for five months. ⁓ I had her on the herbs and she was like, is this still because of what happened? I said, yes. ⁓ said, we just need to just keep going. ⁓ supporting you. ⁓ come back. But is why. MG Herbs: Yeah, wow. No. ⁓ Hmm. Mmm. Jaime: And it just showed how the impact of such a big stress can have down track later on. MG Herbs: Definitely. did she get her bleed back? Jaime: Yeah, she did. It did it but like I kind of think of it sometimes like that in those cases when I give you guys the herbs, I always think it's kind of like the herbs is like planting the seed. In the beginning, it's all the little roots that start growing and you don't see it but then eventually a little period will sprout up again and it's fine. And so we got it back. But does take some time and we see that right and so this is where this is quite an extreme example of an extreme shock. MG Herbs: Yeah. Jaime: But this is where the reality of that nervous system stress and the impact it can have like on your, terms of like that regularity of your menstrual cycle. Because let's just also talk about, sorry, I also just, while I'm thinking about it, last episode, if you didn't catch, we were talking about the nervous system, right? And we were talking about final flight. Now what we didn't mention, I just realized is when you're in that final flight, you switch off reproduction. MG Herbs: Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're excited. It's good. Mm-hmm. Jaime: because you're giving the body now is not the time to conceive. this is huge, ⁓ So when you're in and you're really stressed, ⁓ You're going, that's where you won't have a period because your body goes right now is not a safe, nurtured place to have a period. MG Herbs: Yeah. So that's. Yeah. Or you may have a period, but the rest of the cycle might be a bit out of whack. You're not ovulating very well. It does affect fertility overall. does. It's going to lessen your chances of conception. There's all different types of stress and ⁓ know, since we've talking about it, the stress on your body from under eating ⁓ will affect your period. The stress. ⁓ Jaime: Yeah. and over-exercising. MG Herbs: on your body from over-exercising will affect your period. So there's, you know, in terms of that, looking at the symptoms from previously, often my patients will be like, I've had a really bad couple of weeks, couple of months with my diet. I've been drinking too much, like you said, over Christmas, you know, I've been eating things that I don't normally eat. I've been, you know, doing all of that and they will have period symptoms because of that. Jaime: Yeah. MG Herbs: And ideally we don't want any period symptoms, like none. anything like that, you know, like speaking of what can affect it, so many different things, but basically I'm just going to go back to my life. Life can affect it. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But that's where like I really love the analogy that your period is your monthly report card. if you get a period that is a bit funky, ⁓ that is more painful or a bit heavier than what you're used to, you should be like, hang on, ⁓ something's on in my body. Something. Use as red flag ⁓ to kind of at what's going on in your life, in your stress, with your nervous system, what you're eating. ⁓ MG Herbs: Mm hmm. Mm. Mm. Jaime: have a look at what's going on and kind of think what's been different for me over the past few months. What's changed? MG Herbs: or the consistency, you know, if it comes too early, it comes too late, something, you know, something's happened. We see that as you go through menopause, the periods will become closer, they'll get heavier, they become further apart. Like they do weird and wonderful stuff. And that's because of those hormonal changes. But ideally when you are not, when you're pre-menopausal, we don't have those changes happening. So we want that beautiful rhythmic consistency. ⁓ Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. MG Herbs: So they're the things that can kind of throw our cycle out. We, one, we haven't spoken about like they're kind of all Repro disorder is a big one. So, ⁓ know, you can be doing ⁓ of these things we're talking about, but you have PCOS, you have endometriosis, you might have adenomyosis. That is going to make things a little bit harder. It is going to, you know, we've got those chronic kind of, Jaime: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: diseases, essentially. What are we ⁓ looking at with those kind of hormonal repro disorders? What happens to the period? Jaime: So that's such a big topic, right? So it really depends on which one we're sort of talking about. I think anything, right, I just want to say, I think it's really important to understand that I've said this before and I'll say it again, because I think it's really important. You can have endo, ⁓ you can also have your periods and your hormones all out of balance. ⁓ can have two things at the same time, ⁓ MG Herbs: What's up? Pace the OS first? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Jaime: And I think it's really important to understand that, right? Because I think so often we just think, well, because I've got endo, that means everything. That the only way for me to get any type of symptomatic relief is only through surgery, for example. MG Herbs: Hmm. Jaime: And whilst, yes, it might be important to remove the endo, you could also have all of your hormones really out of balance, which is driving a lot of pain, inflammation, heavy bleeding, irregular cycles, or whatever it might be. But that can also be happening at the same time. And often by addressing all that hormonal stuff, you can actually get so much in the way of symptomatic relief. that can be gained, not just from surgery alone. So you can have those two things happening at the same time. And so I think it's really important to talk about that. ⁓ MG Herbs: Hmm. Well, that's that a third thing in just for fun. Inflammation. So if we're looking at root causes, you can treat that inflammation. And again, we get a really nice symptomatic relief from treating a root, you know, systemic inflammation, repro inflammation that drives endo as well. I think, I don't know where you're going, but a of women don't realize that those reproductive disorders have different symptoms ⁓ and symptom pitches. Jaime: Just for fun. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: And I totally understand the hormonal driving and of those disorders will have different hormonal drivers as we know. but even if we just give our listeners a bit of an idea, cause I have so many women come that like, think I have PCOS, I'm having these really heavy painful bleeds. I'm like, well, maybe, ⁓ but know, that's not the common picture. Jaime: I think we need to, yeah, if we're gonna talk about PCOS, like, there's been talk recently they're gonna rename it, ⁓ Because the name of PCOS is terrible in my mind, incredibly right? So I think important to kind of talk a bit about that. God, we could do a whole episode on PCOS. ⁓ We may to come back and do a whole, we may. We're gonna just, ⁓ yeah. ⁓ MG Herbs: Yes. Yes. misleading. We may, we may, but you know, if we just give them an idea in terms of our hormones and menstrual cycle episode, I think that would be helpful for our kids. Jaime: Yeah. So with. PCOS, right? The polycystic ovaries, the presence of polycystic ovaries does not necessarily mean you have PCOS. And just because they have seen on a scan at some point that you have polycystic ovaries does not mean they are always going to be polycystic ovaries. That can chop and change each month. And so that is quite fluid. ⁓ This is why they're wanting to change the name because that's not indicative of what's going on. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yes. Jaime: you know, so we whenever someone says to me they have PCOS, I'm like, what type of PCOS do you have? So what are some of the types Mel that people need to have for them to be classified as PCOS? Well, also, like the hormonal stuff, right? MG Herbs: You mean the, like the symptom picture? Yeah. So generally, yeah. What we would see is a high amount of our male testosterone and androgens, a lowered amount of our female sex hormones. We would see amenorrhea, which is an absence of periods because the, the male sex hormones are higher than the female. So often there's no bleed. Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: So some women will be like, I've, you know, I have 80 day cycles. That's, that would be their normal or longer. We would also then, what we, we don't want to see, but what we often see is a metabolic involvement. So we've got the hormonal picture and then we've got metabolic involvement, which would present as insulin resistance, high predisposition to type two diabetes. Weight is often a concern. Jaime: Mm-hmm. Yeah. MG Herbs: is often a concern and hurt tourism, is hair growth because of those male hormones. So you, yeah, you can have PCO without the S you can have the syndrome and then the, cysts go away. You can also have cysts with endo. So understanding of PCOS now is that they're looking for that high amount of empty follicles versus just looking at cysts, which is what they should. Jaime: Yep. Yep. Yeah. So it's a big one. Yeah. MG Herbs: be doing as far as I understand it, as well as the metabolic stuff. Jaime: Yeah. ⁓ this is where what really ⁓ really frustrates me is when I have a lovely woman come and see me and she says, I have PCOS. And I go, uh, okay. Like, you know, what's PCOS? What type is it? And she goes, I have no idea. Like, well, how are you? How do know you have PCOS? And she said, because I was 16, I got an ultrasound that said I had polycystic ovaries. So I have PCOS and I've been told it's going to be hard for me to conceive. They put me on the pill and you know, now I'm 28. I've just always known I've got PCOS. MG Herbs: Mm. Jaime: it's not the clear picture. ⁓ not. ⁓ MG Herbs: Yeah, it's pretty rare that I'd actually see testosterone and androgens tested. ⁓ You know, even though they've been diagnosed or told they have it. And the other thing is like you and I, well, we're doing a lot of fertility work. So what we often see with poly polycystic ovarian syndrome is ⁓ no ovulation, no cycle, no bleed, no ovulation. That would mean that Jaime: Yes, agreed. Yeah. MG Herbs: we have a high AMH, which is our anti-malarial hormone. And that becomes a huge issue in fertility because a high AMH, it's pathological. means that you've got this massive amount of eggs because they've never been released. And that puts a lot of pressure on your body. You then have like a quantity over quality issue and the eggs aren't very healthy or robust. So all of these things can be looked at and tested and they're often not. Jaime: Yeah, also not good. MG Herbs: So it will be great to have a new name and some new parameters to diagnose that. Jaime: I Absolutely. But you know, I often say to my clients, I don't want, I don't need your diagnosis. What I'm just trying to figure out is what's out of balance with you. ⁓ MG Herbs: Yeah, give me what's going on. Tell me about you. Jaime: Like, so, okay, is it that you've got high testosterone? All right, let's work about bringing that down. Is it that your hormones are out of balance or, you know, like we said, you're not ovulating or you're not having a regular period? All right, let's work on that. You know, if there's issues with insulin resistance, let's work on each of those and bring it back because also, I really just want to say with PCOS, just because you're PCOS doesn't mean you've got it forever. It doesn't mean you've got it forever and... MG Herbs: Yeah. No, we fixed it. We fixed that thing. Jaime: We bring you back. And it just breaks my heart when so many women feel like they've been like this forever. They think they're going to be like this forever. And again, they've been told it's going to be really difficult, if not impossible for you to conceive. And so therefore, you're going to have to do IVF when you want to try. that is just horrible news to hear for a woman. You it's ⁓ heartbreaking. MG Herbs: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Also really frustrating because like, if we look at the starting points of that IVF journey, ovulation induction is, it doesn't work that well when there's been a history of like chronic amenorrhea. and the eggs still might not be released. So it doesn't necessarily like the rates are pretty low. And then if we are going to go for full blown IVF, we still need those eggs and those eggs aren't going to be very happy. So we still, yeah, there's lots to consider there. I think it's good to touch on all that because like first thing that we are asking these women is what's your period like? What's your cycle like? Do you know what mean? We're coming back to that menstrual regularity, that menstrual cycle. ⁓ Do have hormonal symptoms? Do you have ovulation symptoms? Like we want to know all those details because like you said, yes, the diagnosis doesn't matter to us, but it matter to a lot of women. And they do identify with their repro disorder a lot of the time. Like I'm an endo warrior through and through. Like, do you know what I mean? Even if I don't currently have endometriosis, which I may or may not, you know, because we get it cleaned up and whatnot and whatnot, we always still do. And we're always going to identify that way. So yeah, I guess it's just working, working it all out for our women. The PCOS we can fix. Let's give them a rundown. Jaime: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, yes, naturopaths are great. Yeah, naturopaths are great at that. MG Herbs: Yeah, if we do a rundown of endo, will. Jaime: Well, you're really good to talk on this with Endo. This is... I know, you... Mel is... I'm like, I'm just gonna toot Mel's horn and say that Mel is particularly amazing at helping women with Endo. do think you got it. ⁓ MG Herbs: Okay. I didn't want to, I didn't want to like breathe, all the air, you know. Yeah, I mean, that's why I had to help myself. So I had no choice. know, with endo, we see painful, heavy periods a lot of the time. However, ⁓ amount of pain does not necessarily reflect the amount of endo. You can have really heavy, painful periods and not have endo. You can have no pain in normal period and have stage four endo. In saying that we don't grade it. Jaime: Yes. MG Herbs: much anymore. Like I don't think that grading system is very helpful. And I see the specialist moving away from it, which I think is great. But ⁓ with Endo, the general picture is heavy, painful bleed, shorter cycles with PCOS, longer cycles. So they're kind of, you know, opposite to some degree. With Endo, see like the endometrium has adhesions and and that causes all kinds of issues. And there are flow-on effects like your PCOS and metabolic syndrome. With endo, there's often other inflammatory conditions and other autoimmune diseases are very common. There's a lot, again, whole episode, but I just thought it's worth the same. These are the top two main repro disorders. Then we've also got things like adenomyosis, which often goes hand in hand with endo, but has been more commonly like more commonly in the last few years found without endo as well. Adenomyosis they term it like basically cracking of the uterus wall or bubbling. So rather than the Jaime: Yeah, sure. ⁓ MG Herbs: growths and adhesions being on the endometrium like endometriosis it's inside the muscular wall. So we see the wall getting bigger and thicker and fatter and the uterus actually expanding in size. Jaime: And unlike endo, can't like endo, they can go in and find it and cut it out and remove it. They can't do that with adenomyosis. And this is where the problem lies. No. So, you know, whilst we can remove endo, we can't do that. And so this is where it, you know, does cause a lot of women a lot of problems. But I do think there's definitely a place where naturopathy can really help and herbal medicine can make some big differences. MG Herbs: Thanks. when you can't cut the inside of your uterus wall out, you know? Yeah. Thank ⁓ ⁓ I can slow it down. You know, I know that I'm so confident that we could slow it down. We can prevent it getting worse. I can't fix what's there to, you know, we can't always fix what's there already, but certainly with adenomyosis, you will often have really heavy, flooding, clotting bleeds. That's very, that'll be a very common symptom. ⁓ Jaime: Hmm. Yeah. I have both, just so you all know, I have endometriosis and adenomyosis. And with my adenomyosis, I ⁓ that really heavy, clotty picture myself, and I have really been able to kind of rein it in. ⁓ And ⁓ much under control now. ⁓ And doesn't ⁓ really of interfere with my life the way that it used to. ⁓ I there's always a certain part ⁓ MG Herbs: Me too. Well I did. Mm-hmm. Thank Jaime: to some degree where, you know, your periods can be more problematic when you do have adenomyosis in there. Because like we said, it's not like you could just kind of go and remove it. But like Mel said, I do think there is a lot we can do to try and rein it in. And we have some really beautiful herbs that work on your uterus. And I think it's just really important just to kind of put that out there that there is help available. And you know, Mel and I get it, you know, because we've been there ourselves, we know, you know, and I think It's, I often get women wanting to book in with Mel or myself because we both have had it. And so we get it. And I feel like women always, you know, when you go to doctors and they don't get it and they just dismiss you. So I think when you kind of come and meet with a practitioner that has had it themselves, they kind of, just, you're, in a, you're in a safe space. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of this is dismissed until you until and if you want kids because there's not a whole lot of options which brings us to our little chat on the pill. So what does what does the pill actually do? Whose bleed are we having? Jaime: Yeah. ⁓ yes, yeah. Yeah, so I... okay, this is it's so important to understand ⁓ a woman, what does a pill actually do? Because ⁓ often a doctor, you'll go to the doctor because your periods aren't great. ⁓ the doctor will say, I'm going to regulate your cycle by putting you on the pill. ⁓ let me just put it out there. This is not what the pill does. ⁓ pill is shutting down and suppressing ovulation. So your hormones are blacklined. You are not having a proper period. When you have those sugar pills, you are having a withdrawal bleed. It is not a period. is really important to understand that. ⁓ women all the time will be like, ⁓ but my periods regular because I'm on the pill. ⁓ ⁓ it is not because you are not having a proper period. So this is where some of those new medications that are coming out don't actually have the sugar pills because it's not needed. The sugar pills were invented in the beginning. The original pills that came out didn't have sugar pills, but they put the sugar pills in there so that women could feel like they were having a normal period because it was weird to not have one. So it was just the pharmaceutical companies doing it. It had nothing to do with whether you needed it or whether you needed to shed the lining. Because if you're not ovulating, your lining is never thickening. So you don't need to then shed it. I think it's really important to understand that as well. Do you agree? MG Herbs: so important and I think that that's going to be quite shocking and maybe unnerving for a lot of women because you know I see it on our patients faces when we do explain what's going on and in the doctors defense if I can just for a second that's all they've got you know coming back to what you were saying at the start that's it that's all they've got and it is the treatment that they're going to opt for until you want babies our reproductively we you know we're Jaime: Yeah. It's the one gun. MG Herbs: We are here to procreate. That's what females are here for. Nothing else, no career, know, no house, no nothing. Like we're just here to have babies and keep this life, you know, human life going. But if you don't want a baby, then that's going to be the option from the doctor. it. There's no other, they don't have another option. ⁓ are spoiled for choice. We can do so many different things. We, ⁓ Jaime: cost up. so many. MG Herbs: I'm often like, ⁓ my gosh, how, how many things can like, do it once. I got to filter it. got to put the priorities in because we are spoiled for choice to fix this stuff. But at the end of the day, you're still going to have your cycle with herbs and supplements. still going to have your rhythm. still going to have your bleed. It's all yours. It's not. Jaime: Absolutely. Yeah. And your hormones, can I just say your hormones that you have every day over the course of the month, make up part of who you are. And I have, I can't even tell you how many women that I've seen in their mid 20s that have been on the pill for a decade. Right? So since they were 16 or 17, feel like they don't know who they are. ⁓ don't have a sense of identity. They've got no sex drive. Right? they think something is wrong with them. ⁓ And like, ⁓ no, my dear, it is because you don't have your hormones switched on. And that is such an essential part of who you are. And I think that's so important to talk about and to honor. That's why I'm so passionate about women not being on the pill, because I want you to experience that inner nature of who you're supposed to be. And we're driven by our hormones in a really powerful way, not in a, we're so emotional, you know, ⁓ gosh, you know, the drama of the woman. No, our hormones are powerful and that's a really powerful nature in ourselves. And I just think MG Herbs: Yeah. And like we're pro choice. We're pro choice, but we are pro education and information. So we just want our women to know exactly what's going on. That's your body. Jaime: for sure. Yes. And I think there's so many women where we've spoken to about this and we've explained it and they've gone like, no one ever explained that to me. And also, you know, unfortunately women get put on the pill when they're 11, 12, 13 years old they've had their periods and hormones switched on for a hot minute. And then they just switch it off again. And really hard to hear that. ⁓ MG Herbs: There's a time and a place as well. Like, you know, having Endo as a very young girl was horrific. I got to tell you. And I had, I don't know, a better part of a decade on the pill before I became a naturopath. Um, and I, you know, I, that saved my life. I was so sick. I was anemic, you know, like there's so many considerations. You have to do what's right for you, no, you know, obviously when I'm 11 going on the pill, I don't know. I don't know. But as a mom now, I know for my daughter, like, ⁓ know, and we can make that informed choice for her ⁓ it's likely she, she will have endo as well. ⁓ Jaime: Totally. Yeah, I know. Yeah, and... We can also support young girls. We can support pre-teens, teens. It doesn't have to be that you need to wait until you're an adult. We have an amazing pediatric naturopath on our team, Lainey. And just the way that we can support, and don't be stressed to think that, they won't take these disgusting camps. We have so many tools in our toolkit. We're all over this. MG Herbs: Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, we got all kinds of tricks. Jaime: have so much up our sleeves to be able to help. ⁓ what Mel and I saying is we literally have that many different tools. ⁓ got something that's right for you to help bring you back in balance no matter what. MG Herbs: Mm. And I always say to my girls, like, I can do everything that pill can do except for contraception. However, when you have a regular, beautiful menstrual cycle, I can tell you, you'll be able to tell you exactly when you're ovulating. And then we can plan, you know, sex around that if you don't want to have a bubba yet. But if you know, when you're ovulating, that's your most powerful tool in contraception anyway, you know, so we can do everything else. Like, you know, There's not much we don't have something for. Jaime: Yeah, so I think, know, just kind of coming back to some of the stuff that we spoke about, and I think, you know, some of the stuff that can sort of impact your, you know, hormones, I think it's really important to look at, you know, the stress that's in your life, look at the food that you're eating, look at what's going on in your environment, and take all that stuff into consideration as well. MG Herbs: Mm. Definitely. Jaime: you know, because often, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say what I what I also have noticed and I've noticed this a bit recently, I've been thinking a bit about this with some of my clients. It's funny, like the more people I see sometimes I see these patterns and I'm like, ⁓ it just a little brain is just going a million miles an hour all the time. But one thing I noticed is ⁓ MG Herbs: fun. Mmm. Yeah. Nervous system. Jaime: I know, I know. This is why I have to work so hard on it because it's, it is tiring up there. thing I do notice is I feel like if you were someone that's always had a tendency to be a bit irregular ⁓ your menstrual cycle, ⁓ feel like these women are more susceptible to influences of stress, ⁓ not being so great, you know, exercise or whatever, and their ⁓ just want to go play hide and seek. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm. Jaime: at the drop of a hat. Whereas I feel like when I have other women that have a really rock solid, everyone kind of has their thing, right? But if you're a woman that has a rock solid, standard, you know, army regimented period, you could throw a bomb at you and you'll still have a period. You know, I was working with one of my clients and you know, she's a tendency to have really irregular periods. And we realized one of the sources of her, you know, significant stress is she had a very difficult upbringing, really difficult. MG Herbs: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Jaime: And we noticed that whenever she would get back in contact with her mom or her mom would reach out, her system would get shot and her periods would disappear. And you we got her periods really good. And then she said to me, one of our follow ups we had a little while ago, she was like, ⁓ Jamie, she's like, I had a really big ⁓ incident with family, with my mother. And she's like, I feel like it's not gonna be good for my periods. ⁓ And I'm that's okay. That's okay. No problem. Well, you know, we've got you on the herbs. We know what we're doing. And sure enough, her periods disappeared again, they came back because we knew what to do. But she know like, you know, it's just, that's happens with her, you know? ⁓ Yeah. MG Herbs: Yeah. It's a safety response. It's a safety response. Like, you know, nobody wants to bring a baby up if your mom is causing wreaking havoc on your life. That's not a good situation. And sorry, you don't have to have a baby, but it does kind of, your body's super primitive like that. Like I said, we're to procreate. Like that's all it thinks it's going to do. Um, the other thing is like with the pill, if you consider that, you know, this is a fifth vital sign and we. Jaime: Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. MG Herbs: There's only five. So we lose that, you know, that's going to have a huge effect, like vice versa, right? All of this stuff is affecting our period. If we completely cut that huge thing out of our life, you know, I think of course it's going to affect everything else. You might find that you get stressed easier. You're more anxious. You know, I do see that in a lot of my patients on the pill and I have a lot of patients on the pill, on the marina, on the broad, like all kinds of things. We can work with everything, but Jaime: Yeah. MG Herbs: there is a heightened anxiety for some of them. There is more bloating. is, you know, there's these symptoms that can happen when we're not having a regular bleed. Jaime: think we need to do a whole episode on different types of contraception and the impact that it has on the body. Because I, yeah, I think this is just such a big topic and you know, we haven't even touched on the marine now. We haven't touched on the rod. Like these are big things and they do cause lots of big impacts on the body. I do think I reckon we need a whole episode just to break that down. Yeah, I think we'll pencil that ⁓ into the schedule. MG Herbs: ⁓ that'd be good. That'd be good. Well, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do it. We'll do it for you. Yeah. That'll be good. Awesome. But that wraps us up. Well, I think it's episode four. I think that's it. think, I do love, you know, using your period to know yourself. And that's part of that vital sign theory as well. You know, getting, getting to be friends with it. Like it's not your enemy. we make it that lovely experience, then it shouldn't be a stressful, awful kind of event. Jaime: Okay, so any last thoughts Mel? Is there any last thoughts you've got? You all good? Yeah, absolutely. mean ovulation should be where you should be feeling a little something something like that's a fun time. She is a fun girl. ⁓ absolutely not. ⁓ we thank you so much everybody for joining us again on this lovely episode and we will talk to you soon. Talk to you next time. Bye. MG Herbs: Yeah. Not feeling pain. Mm-hmm. Yep. Ideal. Yep. Thanks for listening in. Bangwale.