Latest / Leading in Change / The Four Forces™ of Resilient Leadership: People & Problem Solving (Part 2)

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The Four Forces™ of Resilient Leadership: People & Problem Solving (Part 2) · Leading in Change

• Kellie Bourque: Change used to feel like a one-time event. Something you managed and led through, then came out the other side. But we are not living in that world anymore, and change is constant now. That means the job isn't leading through it, it's learning to lead in it. So how do you actually do that? That's what this show is all about. I'm Adrian, a partner and consultant at Success Labs, and this is the Leading in Change podcast. And every episode we dig into the real questions leaders are wrestling with right now. Everything from delegating effectively when the target keeps moving, To managing your career in the age of AI. Topics are coming directly from our clients, listeners, and leaders just like you. If you want to lead your people well and manage effectively in the chaos, you're in the right place. Let's get to it. Most leadership advice was built for a world that no longer exists. Today, in this podcast episode, we are going to break down what happened, what you can do to become a more resilient leader, and offer a practical framework that will help you navigate leading in change. And at the end of the episode, we will also share a link to our resilient leadership self-assessment so you can take it and understand where you fall in terms of readiness as a resilient leader. The next one is people. And I'm gonna preface this by saying, ⁓ you know, usually you talk about this force. I think because you are the the like people person, you know, and I'm like the technology data person, right? Like that's usually the categories people put us in. I wanted to talk about this one because Leading teams is one of my favorite things. And this is where I think there are some specific tactical, practical things that people who are not naturally good at people can learn to get really good at leading and change. ⁓ I I think that as technology absorbs more and more of the day to day work that people are doing, it's going to be even more important to focus on this force in particular. So what could that look like? You know, I I think there's a a bunch of ways. I'm I wanna start with transparency because that's where we just left off. Okay. I have seen this in real time. When you are implementing technological change, when you are having major disruption within the way that your organization operates, transparency is critical from top to bottom. And what I mean by that is one, you know, in a traditional organization, they might pick and choose one to be transparent. We're gonna share it at a town hall. We're gonna include this quarterly update. It has got to be much more real time and it's got to be much more organic. ⁓ so what that looks and it and it's not just about didactic outward messaging, right? So some of the ways that transparency looks different in a resilient organization. I I go in and I rip metrics wide open. I make it transparent for everyone to see what's the activity that's happening and it creates in a healthy culture an environment where people know how to support one another. Okay, this person is not hitting the mark here. Incentivize teaching high performers, teaching lower performers how to improve and creating transparency around performance, I think is is really critical for navigating change, transparency around initiatives that you're implementing. So I worked with an organization that was going through building out a ⁓ disaster preparedness model. Okay. At the time they were doing it in such a silo that I look back now and I'm like, they should have been talking to the technology team. They should have been talking to the HR team. They should have been, you know, talking with ⁓ facilities and operations, like all of these things when really it was this small group that felt like, well, this is, you know, our job and our purview. When I know the plan would have been so much more resilient and robust and effective had they been transparent on what they were embarking on. open to receiving feedback, open to incorporating more people into the process. So that yeah, what are your thoughts? Yeah, well, you mentioned several things there that I I could my head's kind of spinning, but what ha what i what happens when you can't be transparent because you don't have any updates? I I think that's a false narrative. No, so what I would say about that is y y the transparency is we don't have any new information. That's what I mean. Like it's as simple as like, don't say nothing just because you don't have anything to say. Like check in with your people, especially in a time of change. If you're in a polycrisis, even saying, I don't have any new updates for you, I'll check back in with you in three days. Right. I mean just to say there's no new information. That's absolutely right. I mean, that's where it comes to ⁓ you know, communication used to just be so top down and now it's gotta be three sixty every direction, multi-channel, much more frequent. You know, but back to transparency, I think it's also so not only is about the way that you communicate, but it's also just about the systems you build. I think people need visibility into the finances of your organization. How are you making invest like where are you choosing to invest in in with the budget? You know, we're investing in technology here, which means we can't add additional bodies here. We can't add add additional staff here. That kind of transparency helps people understand, okay, this is why my needs aren't being met. It's going to result in this new tool that's going to help us down the road. We're going to have to get there through this short period of time. I can't tell you how many organizations are not transparent with budget or why they're making the investments that they make across the organization or transparent with hiring. And so I think it's more than just communication. I think it's really about the systems that you build and Making it clear on, you know, where are you making investments? You know, how are you making decisions? Where are you deciding to hire and not hire? Why are you hiring and not hiring? Like all of those things that you do that traditionally it used to be such a need to know mentality. I think it is critical for people leadership to be transparent. And communication, like we said a second ago, has got to be three sixty, high frequency, yes every direction. I've got a funny anecdote anecdote for that. ⁓ in a former life, I used to teach fitness classes. ⁓ I still take them regularly. I love them, ⁓ but I loved teaching them. And when I was ⁓ learning how to teach a spin class, someone or like a group fitness class or whatever it was, somebody told me, you've got to explain the what and the why. I was like, okay, what does that mean? They're like, give them how to do the proper form. Tell them what you want them to do, but tell them why you want them to do it. I was like, okay, well, what does that look like? And they're like, well, when we are cranking up the resistance on the bike and we're we're building muscles in our quads, you need to push and pull because we don't just walk with our quads, we also walk with our hamstrings. We need to I don't know, strengthen our hamstrings. So it was interesting to hear the what and the why. And so when you're talking about transparency and communication in a time of change or in a polycrisis, sometimes telling them the what you need them to do and why, or this is the decision that we made, and let me tell you the why, that context. is so helpful to get everybody else on board. They may not, they might they may still not agree with the decision, but they're at least can understand why. Yeah. I think both those things are so such critical components of trust too, which is one of the other things that it's it's a strength you can build. It's a it's a competency that you can build. And we have it under the force of people. Yeah. Which is, you know, ⁓ I always think about Patrick Lincioni's five dysfunctions of a team, right? And the foundation of it is trust. And so How do you build trust with teams? I think it's does come from transparency. I think it does come from communication. I think it's get giving people incentives to make mistakes and learn from them without fear of failure. Yeah. You know, it used to be, I think in traditional leadership, trust looked like do it because I said so, right? Like just trust me. Right. Like I hate the phrase trust the process. Trust the process, right? I don't want to trust the process. I want to know the why behind the process, right? and and I think that this, you know, not only millennials, we are millennials, but not only millennials, but Gen Z, there's just historic levels of mistrust in in institutions and authority. And so I'll I said this earlier, but I'll reiterate again, explaining the why is critical to earning trust. And then again, creating that psychological safety to make mistakes because in high change environments, a part of ambiguous is it's not clear what's right or wrong. You know, sometimes you just have to make a decision and figure out how to make it right. Yeah. And the only way you can get there and do that is if there's the trust built to know that I've got the freedom to make it right, even if this isn't the right move. Yeah. Even if it's not happening exactly how we wanted it to, or didn't go exactly the way we imagined. Yeah. When I'm working with clients when they go through a 360, the first thing I do when those results are in before I meet with them to like get my talking point straight. is I look at for I look for the competency of builds and instills trust. And to me that is the red flag, green flag competency. Say more. If you have a really low score on builds and instills trust, that's a red flag for me because I can't help you become a better communicator or have better strategic vision or be better at interpersonal savvy because people don't trust you. You're not creating psychological safety. But if Really high. I was actually coaching someone this morning who that was their highest competency. And I was like, I can do anything with you because we can start tweaking things and you could test things out because your people trust you. They really like working with you. They they believe you and they believe in what you're doing and they want to be on the same team as you. I think that is something that's really important and it's probably an underrated competency for leaders. Get better at building trust with their team. What are some of the things that you think they should do? Being vulnerable, sharing more, asking more questions, letting them lead, taking a step back. I mean, I could I could go all day, I could list this like ⁓ bubblegum shrimp recipes. I could like list out thousands of them. But ⁓ yeah, I think it's also creating that psychological safety for them to be able to fail and fail and teaching them how to fail fast. ⁓ it's also making sure that you are you're creating a learning environment for the team. I think there's so many things. And then also Not being the like this is a really practical one because I'm working with somebody right now that only seems to have a habit of only pointing out when someone does something wrong and not saying, Here are the ten ways that you got it right. I think about ⁓ there is a a TED talk that I love. It's a former ⁓ educator, K twelve K through twelve educator, and she talks about how she was given a class that had been struggling and they were not gonna pass whatever tests they needed to take to be able to graduate to the next level. And ⁓ she said, they put me in this classroom because I'm the best teacher and you're the best students. And I'm gonna get something out of I I'm gonna make you believe in yourself. And she created this environment there, there was specifically a test that she was giving where there were 20 questions. And on when she was passing out the answer or passing out the test after she had graded them, she put plus two on somebody's paper. And he said, why did you put plus two instead of minus eight eighteen? She said, 'Cause you got two right. You're on a roll. I believe in you. Like you gotta keep going. You're not all bad. And he and he like puffed up his chest and said, I'm not all bad. It makes me tear up every time I think about it. But I think we need to create that trust in in the plus twos, not the minus eighteens. Yeah. I love that. I think that's great. Good one. Yeah. ⁓ anything else you want to say on the people category? ⁓ yeah, there's one another really big one that we've kind of touched on, but I just want to double down on it just because I think it's so important. It's feedback. So feedback in a traditional was giving it. It was one way. I'm the boss, I'm gonna give you feedback. And I think feedback, we need to get a lot more comfortable with feedback coming from every direction, feedback being something that is ⁓ you're asking for it. And one of the things I always tell my the people I coach. Is don't just say, Give me give me some feedback on how I Because people are gonna be like, You did great. Yeah. Ask the question in a better way. What's one thing that you saw me do well? And what's one thing that I need to change for next time? Yeah. Because automatically shifting the question that way creates a little bit more psychological safety and teaches the other person it's okay to point out something that I need to change for next time. That feels more helpful than you did this crappy. It's more about like, you might want to tweak it this way for next time because I think Audience might understand your message better. I love that. You know, I'm gonna be put on my like technical hat. Go for it. I think people oftentimes think about feedback as only coming from other individuals. Yeah. And one of the things that I I've was thinking about just today is how I l loved fundraising and sales in some ways because it was such clear feedback of I'm performing or I'm not. Mm-hmm. I I'm I one, I know all my inputs and two, I know all my outputs. That's why I love about video games too. It's like you've literally got a dashboard that tells you what you're doing. ⁓ I loved working at a help desk at one point because I just knew how many tickets I'd closed, you know, what was my time to close, all of that kind of thing. And so thinking about how do you build systems again with transparency that give people real time feedback on their performance. I think that that's a place again where I think AI can be really interesting and exciting. ⁓ to maybe evaluate, I just did this with a client, had her feed her transcripts into AI from a meeting and say, Tell me what percent of the time did I talk? How how much did I listen? What would you tell me to improve on? She cried after listening to it 'cause she realized she interrupts people all the time. She wasn't listening. She dominated the conversation, but she leveraged technology to do that. So it let her have the safe space to process that on her own. Wow. And now she's already implementing change as a result of that. That's intense. Good for you and for her. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We've got one more force. And this is the last one is problem solving. And this is where it all comes together. Let's talk about it. Yeah. So problem solving is ⁓ it's an act, right? ⁓ You've got to be able to do something and you've got to be able to do it, you've got to be able to make a decision and solve a problem when there's a lot of complexity, when there's a lot of uncertainty, when you don't have enough data. ⁓ so for there's a couple of skill sets that are traditional leadership and how we need to shift those to resilient leadership. So the first one is decision making. If you're in a polycrisis or even just a VUCA environment, ⁓ what that could have looked like is let's wait until we know more. Let's do a survey and wait till all of the survey results are back before we make a move. We don't have that luxury. Time is the ultimate luxury. We don't have enough of it. We actually don't even know how much we have. So you need to be able to move faster and make decisions on the fly and make the next right decision, even when that path is unclear. And then if you get it right, great. Learn from it. If you get it wrong, that's fine. Learn from it and then make the next right decision. Yeah. I love that. I mean, ⁓ one of the reframes I do with people is it's wrong for now. It's wrong until you make it right. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like that. I I wanna tie something that you just said in, you know, problem solving is to me also one of the ways that you instill trust going back to people. You've got you can't just be good with people. You've got to also deliver, right? And so being able to effectively make decisions and move problems forward, I think is part of that. So there is a research study. I will find it so we can link it in the show notes, but there is data to show that when managers make decisions, they only get the decision right about sixty percent of the time. That is terrifying. Why is it terrifying? Well, because sixty percent is a D if you're grading yourself. And I don't make D's. I'm like, it's better than half. I mean, yes, great perspective. Thank you, Adrian. That's resilient perspective right there. But yeah, no, ⁓ but but it also is a little encouraging or a little bit ⁓ just like level setting of like, ⁓ wait, I'm not supposed to get it right a hundred percent of the time. I'm not supposed to know all the answers. So I think that's really important. ⁓ another part of problem solving and like the actual doing is managing innovation. So ⁓ th that's a skill set that we need to work on to become more resilient leaders that could have looked like The head of IT coming up with innovation, ⁓ might meanwhile, their entire job is dealing with help desk tickets and ⁓ protecting the the internet from like shutting down or somebody stealing all of the company's data. Right? Like they those are two I'm sure they would love to be described that way. You you can probably describe it way better. But like of the of the millions of things that the head of IT needs to be working on, they cannot be the sole owner of managing innovation. It's got to be everybody's responsibility, top down, inside out. Like you need to bring in experts, you need to learn from other people. I think it's one thing that we're really not great at, but ⁓ we should get better at it for to become a more resilient leader. Let everybody in on the innovation. This comes back to perspective and having humility. Right. Tell me more. You To manage innovation effectively and let it grow organically from all sides, you have to let good ideas come from below you and beside you and all around you. And you have to be willing to say, I don't have all the answers. I trust you all to have the answers, and adopt good ideas from junior talent, right? Or adopt y you know, one of the things there's two two biases I see people have. One, believing that young young people or low-tenured people. don't have enough context to come up with good ideas when oftentimes those fresh eyes are are critical and have some of the most bright ideas and the most effective new ideas. But I also see long-tenured employees being overlooked because they're seasoned and they think, ⁓ that's a stick in the mud, you know, or they haven't come up with any ideas, you know, they just keep the status quo, whatever. When oftentimes one of the first places I look is that frizzy haired fifty five year old woman who's been managing the database for 45 years, I guarantee you she's got a laundry list of ⁓ of innovative ideas that nobody's acted on or listened to. And so if you take the time to go and listen to your team, ⁓ you're gonna find that up and down, you know, the organization, there's the opportunity. When new things are brought in, like ⁓ innovation or, you know, new software, whatever it is, Chat GPT, I don't know. ⁓ it You the there can no longer be an excuse of like I hear people in an organization were like, I don't have time to learn one more thing. Like that cannot be an excuse anymore. What do you say to that? It's it's ⁓ it's everyone's responsibility. The only way we're gonna get better is if we're all trying to learn and then share what we've learned. ⁓ also our our friend Julie Laprous had a talk recently that I attended and I thought it was fantastic. She ⁓ made the very bold claim that is accurate that most of the best New ideas are are created by people that are around the age of 25. So think about and she gave the reference of what's your favorite song? Who's your favorite artist? Their best work they wrote when they're around 25. And the best artists, the best creators keep their foot on the pedal of like innovation and creativity and everything. And but unfortunately, our society is built in a way that ⁓ We are pushing convergent and divergent ideas at the same time. So ⁓ George Land's TED Talk, he talks about how it's like when we when kids are kindergartners, they have an imagination that is like it exceed through the roof. And ⁓ by the time they're in fifth grade, it's like hardly anything. I think by the time two percent, twelve percent by fifth grade. Yeah, it's something ridiculously low. It drops. And so it's like pushing the gas pedal and the brake at the same time. What's the gas pedal? What's the brake gas pedal is let me like tinker with this thing and figure out a new use for this old object. Divergent and then converge and then the brake pedal is that's not the way we do it. That's not the way we've always done it. Why are we trying to innovate and and try to figure out something new? So we've got to, as a society, I think, ⁓ start pressing the gas pedal a little bit more around creativity and innovation and recognizing when we're hitting the break. And where we might be doing it for ourselves, or what could be even worse is doing it for our teams inadvertently. That's right. I think that's exactly right. And part of I think managing innovation there is the self awareness to say we are really comfortable with the break. Everybody says they want the gas, but then they're like, Why are we on this crazy winding road? You know, and you've got to say, 'cause you said you wanted to be in the fast lane, baby. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Are there any other ⁓ competencies or skills that you love about problem solving? Absolutely. There's one that I've talked about a lot that I think is just as I, you know, led technology teams through change before, during and after COVID. The one thing that I saw that set apart leaders who really thrived and leveled up. And like I joke that like lockdown were some of the best years of my life, which I know is like I don't want to sound flippant because I know it was really hard for some people. But for me, I loved the pace of change and the challenge that came with it because I was really stretched mentally around operational foresight. And what operational foresight to me is, you understand the guts of the organization. You understand the way the company operates. If I pull this lever, this happens. And having operational foresight, I think is critical in high change because I s where I see a lot of leaders get off track is they implement a change and then they don't understand the ripple effects. They rip the band-aid on something. We're gonna get rid of this system and add this new system. And they don't understand that okay, well now this entire team can't do accounts payable. You know I see it in organizations where they try to drive change, the foot on the gas, but they don't have the operational foresight to understand all the ripple effects of what that innovation is going to change. And so practicing operational foresight to me Is it can be, I think, tedious to somebody who doesn't find it interesting. So this is where I'd say lean on the people around you if this isn't something you're naturally good at. But map processes. Understand how your organization works. Where does revenue come from? Where does where do expenses go out? who you know, where is the bulk of the work of the organization managed? Where is their risk within your organization? You know, if you are selling a lot in one area, what's the implication on delivery in this area? And where is that pressure and delivery going to create implication for any of the internal operations within your organization? So one thing I see is a company will really ramp up sales of a new product. Okay, so then that changes delivery. Well that's creating extreme pressure on onboarding and training in a way that they there was not the operational foresight to fund invest ⁓ you know, both in terms of positions and in terms of software and in terms of external development opportunities like we provide to meet that demand. And so in high change environments, having operational foresight, I would say is right now, I think a luxury. I see it very rarely. I think it is what sets apart excellent leaders from mediocre ones. But I think it's going to increasingly be a crucial competency for leading in the future. Absolutely. Yeah. Anything else you would add? Yeah. ⁓ one other one that I would add is inclusive problem solving. What's that mean? So inclusive problem solving, what it might have looked like in traditional leadership is kind of like a a checkbox, like, ⁓ yeah, we included everybody. It's kind of like the example you were just talking about of like inviting all the different teams to be a part of it instead of making a siloed decision. Instead, now that problem solving or decision making needs to be made by diverse thinkers, diverse communicators, diverse perspectives. We all have a different perspective. I I I talk about this a lot with Myers Briggs. So ⁓ when you think about the thinking or the feeling, I s the way I sum that one up is where do you start the decision making process or your heart? Doesn't mean you can't do the other. Yeah. But it's where do you start the process. Yeah. And I think that sometimes decisions are made not only in a silo or a vacuum, but like with like minded leaders where we're all on the same page. We all think the same way. Okay, great. Then there's If there's if if we all vote yes, then surely that's the right answer. When really it might just be a a case of classic groupthink. Yeah. And so to make ⁓ more informed decisions or to have inclusive problem solving, it's not a it's not a checkbox. It's a it's it's a must have. You've got to do this this way. Other it may take longer. That's what I was about to say. That sounds really tedious. It is tedious, but I here's the thing. It will take longer. Yeah. There will probably be more tension. That's right. You are gonna have to manage more conflict. And the end result is going to be better. Yeah. Take the time. People over overestimate the investment on the front end and underestimate the investment on the back end, right? Like you're gonna be spending the time on the front end or the back end and the back end's gonna be way more painful than if you invested on the front end. Yes. It reminds me. ⁓ I used to th there was a woman in my life in past life who would say ⁓ when it comes to your health, do you want to pay your grocer or your or the cardiologist? Yeah. You want to buy good groceries on the front end or healthy groceries, or do you want to pay somebody to fix a problem? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Silly reference. I like it. Yeah. Well, all of these interconnect, especially when you get to problem solving. These four forces, ⁓ each of them with a P, they all start to interconnect. And ⁓ these are crucial for us to work on all four of these at the same time because they all interconnect, but this is what's gonna transform your leadership from being traditional, stagnant, not getting not meeting the moment, ⁓ only being able to s it's to solve a VUCA environment, but not a polycrisis. So when you put these all together, you can become a more resilient leader. Yeah. So I'm gonna run through the four forces again. So I you know, I think it starts with perspective because you've got to get your mind and yourself right. And and with perspective, you can set clear vision. And and have clear purpose. So purpose is the second ⁓ force that we look at. And once you have your mind right with your perspective and you have a clear purpose and vision for how you're going to move forward, then you got to think about your people. That's who's gonna work alongside you because you can't do th big things alone. And then you move into problem solving. So how are we gonna get it done together? So perspective, purpose, people, and problem solving. Yeah. Cool. And I think they all do to your point, they they really do work together. And if any one of them is weak, you're gonna feel it elsewhere, right? Yep, absolutely. ⁓ okay, can we end with a question? Absolutely. what if for a leader who's mid-change right now, what's the first question that they should ask themselves? Mm. I don't have one question. Okay, give me four questions. Yeah. So if you want to become a more resilient leader, you need to take a step back and ask four questions. Okay, what are they? What am I doing? Why am I doing it? Who am I doing it with? And or four, and how do we get there? I love it. Those four tie to the four forces in my mind. And that's that gives me that person when it's chaos, those four questions will help me pause, remember who who I am, where I am, and what I'm doing, and then I can move forward. I love it. Great. I think that's a good place to end. ⁓ I think that's a good place to end. Okay. I like it. What do you want our listeners to take away from this episode? I want them to realize that. The leadership advice that we've probably been given in the past was built for a world that no longer exists. And that's okay. There is an antidote to the chaos. And that is to use the four forces to help you become a more resilient leader. And not just learning about what it looks like, but there's some we have some assessments that you can take. We have practical tools that you can use. And so please check out some of the resources that we'll link in the show notes. Yep. I think that's exactly right. Yeah. I would want people to take away. Like you can learn this stuff. Yeah. You can like totally learn this stuff. Absolutely. ⁓ but what I mean literally is you can we have assessments, sure. Evaluate where you are through reflection, through feedback from your team, and then say, okay, these are the areas where I might be weaker. I'm gonna focus on intentionally strengthening those. And while you might not see the payoff immediately, either in terms of perception to that stat of yours that what was it, 16 months or something like that. Sixteen to eighteen months, yeah. Sixteen to eighteen months. You may not change perceptions rapidly. You might not even feel it yourself rapidly, but over time, this is going to make you prepared for the change that's only going to continue to accelerate. Yeah. You can totally do it. You can learn it. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You just gotta be the work. So thank you all for listening today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow us. ⁓ subscribe on YouTube, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. ⁓ if you really enjoyed it, we would so appreciate ⁓ a review, a comment, share it. join us next time ⁓ for the next conversation. We'll share in the show notes the four forces self-assessment that we referenced. And if you want to learn more, go to our website, successlabs.com. Thank you all for tuning in. If this conversation was useful to you, the best thing you can do is share it with someone who might use it. Leave us a review, and please subscribe wherever you're listening. You can learn more about our work at Success Labs and connect with us at SuccessLabs.com. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Just search for Success Labs. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, keep leading well.