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From Onboarding to Upsell: A Digital Playbook for Credit Unions · Leaders in Lending

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of Leaders in Lending.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I'm your host Matt Snow joined this episode by Kirk
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Drake Kirk. Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me all today.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Kirk a man of many talents.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I've got your book here with me too, author of
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: CU two dot zero, founder and owner of that company
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: as well. I hear you own a winery yet I've
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: yet to be invited up there, but sounds like you're
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: involved in a lot. Maybe talk a little bit about
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: your background, how you got involved with credit unions and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: what you're up to today.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Sure, Well, first off, you're always welcome, No, no need
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: for a formal invite. But yeah, So I started working
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: at a high school bank or started high school bank
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: about thirty years ago, and then worked for a couple
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: of different credit unions in the DC area. Somewhere along
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: the line, spent a short stint at Feisser where it
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: took I think nine people to approve a three dollars stapler,
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: and I said that was not my that was not
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: going to be my place of residence for long, and
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: then went kind of back on the credit inside for
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: five six years before starting a couple of different quso's
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: ongoing operations see wallet. And then maybe seven eight years
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: ago really kind of got passionate around how do I
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: really help early stage entrepreneurs that are trying to break
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: into credit unions and help credit unions who are trying
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: to really devise a strategy to compete with with and
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: partner with FinTechs in a more meaningful way. And so
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: wrote the Crediting two point zero book, which really focused
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: on digital transformation, followed by an aibook that got publised
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: a couple of years ago, similar to the Digital Transformation,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: but all really around how are you going to incorporate
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: AI into your credit union and where to really be
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: thinking about that? And then kind of in that same
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Vein was starting the Winery seven eight years ago as well.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: So it's been a busy seven eight years, but it's
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: sort of come out the other end of it and
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: really happy with where we are today.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Awesome. Yeah, maybe that's a good place to start.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: When you talk about partnerships or FinTechs and credit unions
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: working together, why do you think that's a good match?
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: What makes that a good partnership?
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's two sides of it. I think
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: the first side of it is, I think there's some
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: level of it. It's just the reality of new entrants
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: innovators dilemma, right situation where the FinTechs have the time,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: capital and ability to go really really deep on one
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: particular part of the business. Oftentimes it feels like creditans
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: are running with your sixty different businesses within that and
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: so when you can get that specialization, you really find
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: unique opportunities yield arbitrage, you know, et cetera, or service
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: in that mode. And then I think on the other
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: side of it is because creditans are trying to tackle
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: so many things at the same time and not being
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: able to kind of really focus deep on any one areas.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: One of those areas, it's me it's a real opportunity
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: to partner with someone who could really make their experience
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: and their performance that much better by finding the right
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: partner in that. And then I think the last piece
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: of it is there's definitely a group of FinTechs that
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: are actively trying to reach or eat credit unds lunches
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: into trying to really avoid those by partnering with the
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: ones who are really looking to help.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Is there do you think about that separation in those
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: trying to partner versus take their business? What do you
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: think the differentiator there is what causes one fintech to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: be in one camp versus another. Yeah, I'll start obviously,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: we were more in the partner camp, and we've got
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a point of view on how we got there, But
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: curious like your perspective on that journey.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think a lot of times
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: we really kind of classified as there's those that want
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: to eat your lunch, those that want to eat lunch
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: with you, and those that want to serve you lunch
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: right and upstart certainly in the not to eat your
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: lunch camp, And so I think it's usually it comes
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: down to the recognition that fintech either needs scale and
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: breadth a number of users, and credit unis are a
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: great way to partner on that. So that's one angle,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: and the other angle is credit UN's being kind of
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: a downstream distributor where there's a scale and a breadth
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: that the fintech can get, whether it's on customer acquisition
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: or particular type of loan or something like that. Where
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: you know, a credit union sitting in a you know,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: a state or a region just can't get enough scale
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: of that particular type of a product or opportunity, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: so partner at the fintech who can really bring that
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: scale to that particular loan product, service product, you know,
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: depositive product, et cetera, ends up being really meaningful.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing that's interesting to me is
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: thinking about, just as you mentioned, distribution, so physical versus
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: digital channels. You know, I've been in banking and financial
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: services a long time as well and was always surprised
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: at the number of people like using the branch still
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: engaged and use those as a touch point into financial services,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Like is that do you think that's like accelerating downward?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Will that always be a part of the equation, like that.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Human interaction or how how do you view the like
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the trend of that in the near future.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think we have some stats that
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: shows something like seventy percent of consumers are going to
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: Google to find a loan in the first place, right,
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: And so if you think about eight thousand banks and
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: credit unions competing for that that particular keyword or that
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: particular type of loan, it's a pretty you know, it's
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: pretty expensive to try and you know, target that. Versus
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: a fintech that can really own a digital channel of
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: digital experience and put themselves either in the flow point
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: of sale piece of it or the right digital you know,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: piece of it, they just end up being able to
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: be much more competitive at understanding and finding those consumers,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: pricing them correctly, and then bringing them into the credit
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: union Versus when a credit union tries to compete in
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: that space, oftentimes they can't even afford the marketing costs,
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: let alone you know, the rest of the fulfillment of
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: the rest of those pieces in there.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very true, And it's funny even like the eight thousand,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, that seems like a huge number and is,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: but is even low considering where it was ten fifteen
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: years ago.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, do you see like the.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Number of institutions still kind of merging or I hesitate
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to like putting the current context of what we're at
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the end of April here talking and who knows with
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the state of regulation and the government and kind of the.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: The Yeah, a pretty steady you know consolidation over the
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: last ten years or last twenty years really since I
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: started working in credit unions, and you know, it's not
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: like they're going out of business, they're just merging and
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: becoming healthier and having more scale. But I but I
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: think it also brings up the you know, the kind
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: of key piece of Just as much as those distribution
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: channels are hyper competitive for people that aren't playing on
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: a national level, your consumers are being in your members
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: are being targeted on a national level, so you can
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: be in you know, middle of nowhere America and that
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: consumer because of the Internet and because of digital accessibility.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: It used to be competed with the bank down the
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: street and maybe a national bank who had some smart
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, physical mail strategies or something like that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: But now you're competing against everybody who has a digital
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: footprint in that and that really shifts that that cycle
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: so that the credit it isn't just competing locally, they're
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: competing regionally, nationally and in a Britique setting, and that
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: really shifts the balance to entities that can can understand
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: and capture that on a much broader basis and put
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: it directly in front of the consumer.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought of that competing on all those
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: levels now and how hard that would be and kind
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of back to the idea of partnering with credit unions again,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like for us at Upstart, I think we did not
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: want to get in the business of trying to unseat
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: banks and credit unions who've been building their brands in
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the community for hundreds of years and focus on the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: technology side, which we're good at. But it did get
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: me thinking, especially after a conversation with Kurt Lynn recently
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: who founded and runs Pinwheel, about you know again like
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: companies focusing on what they're good at or what differentiates
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: them and kind of building on what you said with
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: banks and credit unions partnering with FinTechs, like credit unions
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: have have developed a good relationship or specialty around certain
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: member groups or you know, select employer groups, so there's
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: some some tighter reason behind their existence other than just
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: financial services. And you know, typically those were geography or
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: employer based. Like do you see that changing today? I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: started to do a little thought exercise, like what would
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: be the community today, Like is it a YouTube influencer?
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Imagine like you give a.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Little bit away personally with my kids and their age,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: but like mister beast, would he start a credit union.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Is that a community that people would care about.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: Or it's funny? I mean, I certainly think my kids
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: would jump on that in a second. It would be good,
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: right like, So I agree, I mean, I do think
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: it is it is much harder to create those communities
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: and find those things versus I think they were much
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: more natural when you had employer sponsorships or other things
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: in that regard it. And I don't think, you know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: it's it's you know, I think back to my parents
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: and their kind of banking experience, and you know, my
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: dad was big into toy trains because that's weird, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: that's what he did. But you know, like, there wasn't
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: a toy train, you know, operating credit union. But I
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: suppose there could have been. But if there would have been,
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: he would have joined it, right or he would have
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: had He was a cal Tech engineer, so it would
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: have been cal Tech. But other than that, those are
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: the only two community things he would have been involved
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: in Versus today, I probably have twenty or thirty different
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: groups that I'm involved in, and and and so I
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: think it really had shifted in the complexity of the
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: modern consumer, where you know, we.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Travel a lot more.
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: We we network a lot more, we.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Read a lot more, were exposed to a lot more nuance.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: I mean even I even think back to when I
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: went to high school in southern Oregon with his community
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: bank that we started the bank branch with. And you know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: at that point in time, whatever was happening in a
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: major US city that was tech driven and you know,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: front end, you know, leading edge of type of things,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: it would show up in southern Oregon about ten to
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: fifteen years later, right, And that that time frame took
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: really a long time for a major national trend to
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: get down to the local, you know, small town America
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: kind of thing. Going to DC for twenty five years,
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: coming back to southern Oregon. That gap of when Uber
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: hit in d C versus when Uber hit in southern
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Oregon was about three years, right. And so there's just
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: a pace of change and a pace of assimilation of
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: this stuff that just occurs way faster now than it
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: ever did before. And I think that makes it even
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: tougher to find those pockets of community.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: You know, in that Yeah, definitely.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: And so I continued that thought exercise a bit, maybe
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: into something a little more reasonable but still newer and
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: thinking about like crypto or bitcoin. And there were some
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: credit unions I found, like United Financial Credit Union or
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: we Street that that talk about those services, Like do
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you see any credit unions latching onto communities or you know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: why do people go into two banks and credit unions?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's define that advice or to find someone
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: who knows something about a complex Yeah, instagrament or system
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: that they don't understand, like is that our credit unions
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: getting in the crypto space or something similar.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're definitely handful that are trying to play in
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: that space, but I think they're definitely challenged to figure
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: out exactly how to bring that to market. And again,
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: you know, how do you take what is an international
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: product tool and you know, financial medium and create value
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: at the local level with crypto when it's still not
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: mostly accepted. You know, it's not like you can go
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: into your neighborhood winery and use crypto, you know, and
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: so there's still those types of friction points. But I
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: think and I think that is the thing that would
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: drive crypto to the next level from an adoption from.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: A consumer perspective.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: If that local small town had use cases, then you
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: bring a whole bunch more people into it, right, I mean,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: even think about like Amazon, It took Amazon twenty years
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: to get you know, two days shipping all the way
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: down to that local, you know level. It wasn't something
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: that happened overnight. And so I think, you know, when
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: we think about these various trends, I do think you
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: bringing up a great point, which is I don't think
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: a lot of credit unions think about what is the
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: modern community for younger members.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Today and how do we tap into that? Right?
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: I think they tend to think of it very much
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: the way it was and whether it's those family values
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: or you know, whatever it was in the fifties, sixties, seventies,
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: and that has shifted pretty substantially generationally. And I don't
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: even know that I can tell you amongst my friends
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: where that sense of community and tie in would be
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: if I were to take, you know, my ten friends
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: in Southern organ were the community is because of that
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: friend group. But it isn't because we have a shared
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: religious affiliation. It's not because we have a shared interest
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: in toy trains. It's not because we have a shared interest.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: And it's almost much more life stage community than it
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: is you know, uh, communal interest in music or something
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: like that. And I think that's just a really big
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: shift in how the world operates today.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And I think it also shows up in where people
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: are getting that financial advice, you know, the turn TikTok
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: or YouTube or you complete strangers with no seeming maybe
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: credentials but other than their follower size to get that
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: insight where maybe you would have from your colleagues or
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: those that shared your.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Interests because those people were around you. And that's as
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: far and as fast as information can travel there.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Sure, And the reality is, who am I going to
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: trust If we're going to google a complex you know,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: thing about how to do a derivative or get an
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: interest rate swapper, I'm going to ask my dad, right, like,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's you know.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: It's yes, he could probably tell me the theory behind it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: But I guarantee the online education that I can find
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: in eighteen seconds or a Reddit article is going to
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: be far stronger and far more credible at the end
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: of the day. Right, And so it's even that replicates
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: that shift of I always think about this when I
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: was a kid, you know, when I was two. My
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: dad had twenty times in knowledge of me, right, and
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: when I was ten he had, you know, four times
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: in knowledge of me. And when I was twenty he
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: had two times in knowledge of me, and now he
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: has like one and a quarter, you know, one and
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: a half times. And as that progression occurs, there's a
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: pretty significant shift of how you think about expertise and
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: where do you get where do you go to get
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: sources of truth and how to navigate the world. And
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: I think that's where, you know, the reality is, even
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: that I'm forty seven, if I go online and want
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: to learn something, I can probably find someone who still
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: knows twenty times more than me.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And maybe bringing it back a little bit to the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: more practical a topic you and I've chatted about offline
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a handful of times, this idea of leading with lending
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: or life is just getting more expensive, so the need
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: for credit is certainly more pressure, and I think the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: access to credit hasn't kept up with that need. So
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: getting lenders more comfortable with that being the lead into
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: a relationship versus the traditional I get the checking account,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: or as you said, you walk into the bank, maybe
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: get your past book savings when you're getting your first
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: job or allowance and start to save money away to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: build that lending relationship. Are you seeing any trends or
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: people getting more comfortable using a lending product as a
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: way to get to know someone that their life stage
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and build a relationship.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Do you mean the credit unit or the.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Consumer more in the credit union side?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, it's always been
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: the case that I think loans really drive account opening
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: and some you know respect, because that's that solves a
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: critical if you want to grow members and you were
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: trying to do it exclusively on you know, either a
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: digital foot and or just on a deposit rate basis.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: I think I G might be the only one I've
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: ever seen successfully really crush that, you know, from a
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: unique perspective, and I don't know that would work again today, right,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: They hit this right arbitrage point of online and market
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: conditions and rate you know, in a unique way. So
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: the loan piece is usually that's a much better spot
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: for a consumer to enter because they're usually trying to
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: do something else that gets them willing to do a
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: little bit of work to get that thing. You know,
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: they don't want a car loan, they want a car, right.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: They don't want a home loan, they want a home right.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: And so when there's some other want, need, desire, emotional
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: connection to something, them being willing to do some work
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: and experience in friction to get it is what gets
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: them to change, you know, behavior or something in that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: And so loans I think are a great indicator of
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: when that emotional trigger is occurring or that that event
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: is occurring for the consumer that would get them to
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: do that extra piece report.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then how do you see eating is take
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: advantage of that so or maybe compare and contrast the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: good and the bad, or like those can memberships in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that environment?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, in general, I think you know, I think this
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: is an area where credit unions have not kept up
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: with kind of the digital acquisition strategy. So we tend
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: to think of consumer, you know, indirect consumer coming through
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: one of these third party channels. They come in, they
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: join the credit union, and then we send them a
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: welcome kit, not recognizing that they came in from a
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: digital channel in the first place, right, And so you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: a physical, tangible welcome kit is probably not the thing
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: to match that. It's sort of like I'm sure we
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: all of those people where we you know, we send
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: them a text message orn email and they call us
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: and leave us a voicemail and we're like.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, I texted you.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I expect you to respond to text right, Like it's
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: it's weird to me if you call me back after
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: I text you, right, unless you're my brother who calls
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: me to make sure that I got the voicemail or
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: text me to make sure that I got the voicemail.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Multichannel approach, Yeah, exactly.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: And so I think when we think of that from
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: an indirect respective of something like forty percent of members
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: close their accounts one hundred days later because they didn't
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: feel that engagement. They didn't they didn't see a digital
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: onboarding process that really aligned with the small step things
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: that they need to do.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: The other piece.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: But I think that's really shifted is someone needs to
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: go into a bank and you'd sit down and you
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: fill out the form and they would do it all
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: and you'd sit at the desk for an hour and
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: then at the end of it, you get your check,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: you get your debit card, you know, whatever it is,
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: and you kind of walk out and I think consumers
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: today don't have that hour time, so they're expecting to
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: do that onboarding and small five minute distracted you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: things between their Facebook feeds, you know, the Instagram posts.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: They want to do those small little things.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: And I think that that digital onboarding gives the ability
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: to give them small micro tasks that onboard them that
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: don't require this huge commitment of things, you know, to
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: do all up front. And you know, I think if
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: people are going to do the work of switch, they
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: want to do it on their terms, their timeline, you know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: et cetera. And just because you sent them one email
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: that they didn't notice doesn't mean that they don't want
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: to do it. It's just the timing of that email
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: wasn't right.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it in that way, the idea
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of micro tasks, or if you combine that with I
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: know this is true in my personal life as well.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: But you know, no one wants to talk to a
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: live customer service rep until you want to.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And then you want that person immediately.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And so how do you create that almost concierge like
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: service as a credit union to guide people through the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: steps let them do it. On their time, but you
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: know you're there helping nurture them along. I think could
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: be really important.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll give you a great example that occurred recently.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: I had two different credit unions that were clearly encouraging
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: mobile wallets, and both encouraged me to put my credit
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: card in my mobile wallet, only about ten years after
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: mobile wallets really kind of became a thing in my mind.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: But either way, they finally got around to it. They
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: in sented me to do it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: I put my both cards in and then I went
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: and tested the mobile wallet and both of them declined
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: the first transaction because it's the first transaction, it's a
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: high fraud risk. Well, the flip needs to be true,
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: which is the first time your consumer try something. It
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: needs to work one hundred percent of the time. You
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: can put the fraud controls on number two through ten, right,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: put on that first one. You're better off just waving it.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And so how how does a credit union, you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: navigate stuff like that, because back maybe back to the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: partner idea, you know, build those customer relationships through technology
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: that's maybe new to them or haven't thought through those
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: use cases.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: How do you even begin to.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Find a partner to know where your gaps are. It
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: seems like that would be just a daunting analysis paralysis
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: kind of exercise.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think there's a couple different ways.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I think A, you can put the lens on.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I need to find a partner that is going to
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: do this naturally in my mode and kind of strategy
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: and align with a digital onboarding experience and a process
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: that is these micro components and aligns with that. So
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I think, A, that's super important. They need to have
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: the tools and the capacity and the wherewithal to recognize
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: these are individual you know, experiences and journeys and your
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: your your systems and your processes need to be to
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: find at that individualized basis so that if I mean,
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: I can tell you like every time I Credit Union
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: says enroll in these statements, when I'm already enrolled in
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: the statements, I want to poke myself in the eye
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: and be like, how do you not know I'm enrolled
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: in need statements? Especially because if I forget and I
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: go log in and it tells me I'm in rolled
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: in statements, I'm like, now I'm even more frustrated that
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: I did this five minute thing, and it's you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: and it's almost brand Uh, it's a reduction in the
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: value of your brand when you don't treat and understand
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: the consumers you know, spot in that process. And so
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: I just think that's a continual thing credit is to evaluate.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally totally agree. Well, I know we've covered a
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: lot already. Are there things you think that we've missed
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: or you want to make sure we highlight in terms
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: of you know, partnership, cross selling, you know, onboarding consumers,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: any anything.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I think I think that you know, understanding that first
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: hundred days and understanding the digital tools and the analytics
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: that you need to help drive that in which partners
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: can really help you there is key. I think the
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: second piece really is also understanding what are the other
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: pain points and opportunities that are just low hanging fruit
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: in there to help the consumer migrate, right, So not
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: be just you know, how do I help them going
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: through this process, but if they move a car loan
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: over to me and I noticed they have this other
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: loan that I have a better rate on, that's your
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: opportunity to grab that business and make that super simple
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: as well, and not just asking the same fourteen questions
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: either right right.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great, yeah, I think great advice, great place to end,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you know, appreciate the time.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Is always always good to catch up a bit.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And maybe we'll do a follow up episode live from
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the winery sometime.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Sounds great, that'd be awesome.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: All right, well, thanks again, Kirk,