Latest / Earn Your Leisure / 90% of Podcasts Are Doing It Wrong — Truth Behind Media Deals & Inside the Joe Budden Podcast Empire

Transcript

90% of Podcasts Are Doing It Wrong — Truth Behind Media Deals & Inside the Joe Budden Podcast Empire · Earn Your Leisure

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
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  Speaker 1: and sure they definitely can be, but understanding of professionals
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  Speaker 1: the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. P and C Bank
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: National Association Member FDIC. As with you all, I was
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: telling you probably the most impactful interview I've done in
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: my career.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: How he rolls out as real He.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Wrote, Troy, talk about the tags lest about finance.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: When we talk in a language that is common.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: To the people, that's from the feeings that we grew
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: up on.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: You are the bright spot, thank jewership for Black Americans.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: This is the knowledge that actually matters.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: I plaug both of you for this. Thank you.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Isn't it a country issue? It's not an American issue, it's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a world issue.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: You came to earn Lisa, all right, gush, welcome back.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ey l we got a special episode. This is
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: something I've been looking forward to. Actually. You know, US
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: obviously is a business platform, and we always talk about
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: things that may not be well explained. You know, a
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: lot of things are kind of surface level when it
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: comes to business, especially on social media, but you got
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: to have a deep dive, and the only way to
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: do that is to actually talk to people that really
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: know what they're talking about.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: The people that really really do it. I think one
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of the things early on was like we get to
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: talk to the people who do a lot of the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes things that people don't realize that a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: lot of people are benefiting from.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And today is no different. Today is no different.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Ian Schwartzman, if you're a fan of the Joe Butten podcast,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: which obviously you guys have millions of fans of that,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you know who he is.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna lead with with Ian and Mark.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: If you're a fan of that, I thank you. That's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: my guy. Now we're talking who gives a shit about them?
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: About that?
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: No no, No, I'm just kidding.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding.
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: We're definitely gonna talk business.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean I think everybody kind of knows you,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: but they don't really know too much. They know something.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: They see you a lot.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they hear about it about you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: They hear about this is true. I don't think they
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: see them a lot. I think they hear about them.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: They see a tweet, but it's like, you know, I
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: don't think that they really have heard long form conversation
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and him his thesis on a variety of different things,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: like it's more a tweet or you know, kind of
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: like a.
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: They get flashes of you'll see clips on it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I know you had the show with y'all were talking
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: with you know, your significant others.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So that was very odd.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Wives.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: A little bit more of you is being displayed to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: I don't know if that was the side I wanted
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: to display. There we go all for the betterment of
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: the network. There you go network, anything to make the
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: network go.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: So we're going to have an interesting conversation. We got
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: a lot to talk about it, and it's perfect time
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: and as far as yes it is, oh my god,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: it's concerned. But first and foremost, thank you for joining us,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I'm a big fan of
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: you guys.
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: I appreciate that you guys do the one thing that
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: I feel like there's the biggest gap with which is
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: the financial literacy, the business conversations that actually matter, that
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: make the wheel turn. So I'm honored to be on
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: the show. I appreciate you guys having me, and I
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: feel like we're going to have a really interesting conversation.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: So all right, we're going to get into Netflix, We're
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: going to get into the state of podcast. But before
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: we start, let's let's let's bring it back and let's
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: really figure out exactly who Ian is. Are you Joe
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Buden's business partner? Are you his manager? How did the
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: relationship start? I know you manage other people, you manage,
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: you said, Remy Ma.
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: I work with Remy Ma, pre Primo, DJ Premiere, Pat
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: Pat Poos, I work with Royce, I work with Brady
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: Watt and Joe Budden.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, so what is your relationship with the Joe Button Podcast.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: I am Joe Budden's business partner.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: So you own you own a part of the show network,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: your equity would Yeah.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: I would say it's even deeper than that. Okay, the
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: word equity is you know, that's a loosely thrown around
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: term nowadays. But I'm an integral part of how the
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: business was formed and how the business operates and runs today.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: So yes, I'm definitely an owner in the Joe Budden Network. However,
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: I will say this clearly that the Joe Budden Network
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: is owned by Joe Budden, which is a very important piece.
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: And I don't mean solely, but there are no angel
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: investors or majority shareholders. It is owned by Joe Buden. Yes,
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: my involvement is there. I do have ownership there, but
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: it's in a very unique way, and Joe and I
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: have found an ability to work together that has set
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: us apart from every other business relationship you kind of
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: see in our space, which I think is played to
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: our benefit and to the benefit of the podcasting and
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: multimedia space at large.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: This is a It's interesting because obviously since you've been
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: with the show, that has obviously been a shift in
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the direction of the show.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: How did you too, who first meet?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Is it from managing the other artists in the world
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of hip hop and then getting involved in his career
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: and hip hop. What was it like, Hey, they've got
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: something going on in there that's interesting that we can
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: help elevate.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: It first started through Parks. Shout out to Parks. So
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: Parks was DJ Premier's engineer and him and I had
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: a very close relationship. I've been managing DJ Premier at
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: that point for five years and we were doing really well.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: And I guess at the same time, Parks was also
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: Joe's engineer for his musical career. So one night when
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: I was with Premium, Parks, Parks pulled me aside and said, look,
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: I know Joe needs management, he needs someone who really
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: understands the business. Well, can I introduce you to I
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: think you guys should be a perfect fit for each other,
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: which the rest of the industry, when I started poking around,
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: felt the exact opposite.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: They thought we were.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: Oil and vinegar Joe and I and it would never work.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: So Parks introduced us, brought up together. We had a
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: couple of meetings and we actually realized that a lot
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: of our sentiments were aligned. Joe was at a point
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: and I know he doesn't mind me saying this where
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: he's like, look what I'm doing isn't working. I need
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: someone who actually understands the business, understands what I bring
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: to the table, and can help show me a new way.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: And those words resonated with me really deeply because I
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: was tired of just playing a business position. I wanted
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: to have more of a say in the strategy, the
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: creative strategy, and a new way of doing business. And
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: this goes back. I've been with Joe now almost ten
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: years as of April, so him and I have had
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: a long run together. And yeah, I mean Joe and
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: I's history starts with us doing a final album, Rage
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: in the Machine, that we did at Arab Music and Empire,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: and me securing him his first independent deal that we
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: still make money from every month to this day, almost
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: ten years later. And when we were on the road
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: with Keeb over there my partner. It was me, Joe, Parks,
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: Keeb and a few other people. We were halfway through
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: the tour and promoting this album and Joe turned around
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: and said, I'm done with this stuff. He was absolutely
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: ready to stop the music side and get into the
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: multimedia and broadcast side. And I said to him, okay, good,
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: well that means we have to put this down completely
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: and hyper focus on what we want to do with
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: the media side. And one little thing I want to
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: preface my entire relationship with Joe is the very first
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: time I met him, I told him I'm really not
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: that big a fan of your music. I was more
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: a fan seriously, and I know that sounds harsh you.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: We weren't even ten minutes into a meeting and I
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: was like, I'm really not the biggest fan of your music.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: I'm a fan of your personality. I always felt like
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: Joe was hip hop's version of Howard Stern. He was
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: so polarizing, like anytime I'd see him, well, I remember
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: him back in three doing the morning show Drivetime Morning
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  Speaker 5: Show for a very short time, and I always thought
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: his personality was like so brash, and then secondary to
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: that was his TV stent with like love and hip
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: hop and anything he did in reality TV. I just
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: felt like, Wow, this guy is something different than everyone
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: else that's on screen. He's unafraid to be himself. He's
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: unafraid to say how he feels, whether it makes him
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: look bad or good, and that was attractive to me,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: being a huge Howard Stern junkie. So long story short.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: When I met Joe and we were having discussions about
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: working together, I told him I was like, I'm more
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: interested in building a media business with you than I
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: am doing anything with your music. So it was ironic
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: that that ended up leading to his last album and
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: us building you know, the Joe Budden Network and working
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: on podcasting and media.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: So it's interesting and the rest is history. Thank you
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: for the interview. All right, okay, so let's get into it. Hmm,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: what are we getting into everything?
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: There was a you guys know too much? So I
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: want to want to get into real stuff because if not,
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: we're wasting time.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: We have family and friends. Yeah we got it, Yeah,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: we got it. We don't have time to waste. We don't.
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: I mean literally, like things are happening so fast in
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: the landscape that I'd be worried if something like this
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: doesn't come out. Actually, because no one knows shit. Let's
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: be honest, no one knows anything in this space. Everyone's
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: doing the same thing they did in hip hop. How
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: do I get the quickest bag and how do I
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: keep myself above water so that I could do a
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: show long enough to get enough money to hopefully make
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: it to a second round. It's it's almost like squid
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: games for media.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: That's exactly we told about that yesterday on our other show,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: is that it's turned in podcasting has turned into new
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: hip hop. Before hip hop, it was Okay, my goal
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: is to put some music out so I can sign
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: a record contract. I don't care about my licensing. I
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: don't care about masters, I don't know about I just
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: want one hundred thousand dollars calls a couple hundred thousand
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: dollars up front. I want to be lit, and I
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: want to travel the world and.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Tour money, jewelry objects, things that really have no long
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: term value, and no one really cares about the rights.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: But the reason why, the reason to me, the reason
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: why he did that because they didn't see a pathway
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: to monetize their music other than that. And then the
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: South comes in and then the independent labels, and they
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: then they provide a new blueprint of how you can
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: actually still maintain ownership. Right. But now I think it's
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: the same space in the podcast space where a lot
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: of people are saying be independent, do that, but there's
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: not a lot of people that have provided as blueprint
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: to how to actually monetize the podcast. It's very difficult
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: to monetize a podcast for just a regular person. I'm
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: just talking about regular nonsense. Absolutely, it's difficult to monetize that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So I understand that they look at it from a
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: standpoint of I want to get a deal because how
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: else are they going to make money?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: There you go, well, as part of that, because I
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: agree with what you're saying, it's part of it. Its
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: union is that? Is it? The lack of transparency? Right?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So if people are doing it and there isn't the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: exact blueprint, I mean, everybody's situation is different because everybody's
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: value add is going to be different. But because we
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: don't know what's happening here or there or there, we're
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of freelancing it.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And what we do know is, oh, in music, that's
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: how this works. Let's do that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Right, they're copying templates that existed in the past. I
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: would say this, I don't think it's a lack of transparency.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: I think it's a lack of curiosity. I don't think
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: there's enough people asking the right questions. There's not enough
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: people knocking on doors that matter. Everyone's sort of following
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: the herd, so to speak. If ninety percent of the
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: industry's looking for exclusive deals because an exclusive deal means
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: you're getting a guaranteed check, then that's what the industry
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: at large learns, which is why myself and Joe are
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: so animate about putting out publicly some of the partnerships
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: and directions we're going in that are the exact opposite
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: of the rest of the industry. I mean, yes, this
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: is a repeat of the old school music business. Everyone's
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: looking for a way to survive and eat. Okay, so
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: that's the premise of the whole thing. But the biggest
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: problem that I see is no one knows how to
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: build a business. So like, you guys are amazing at
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: teaching financial literacy, but who's teaching creators how to build businesses?
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: Because in my mind, I look at first of all,
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: I'm new dad. I have a four month old daughter,
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: Thank you very much. That's my proudest achievement. Forget the
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: business and all that stuff. That's great, but that's my
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: proudest achievement. But something I look at that's impressive to
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: me and is very interesting and to me is the
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: litmus test of what's coming is in ten years. I
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: don't think my daughter and her friends will be looking
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: for jobs at a restaurant as waiters and waitresses. I
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: think they're going to be content creators, okay, because I
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: think that's going to be far more accessible and normalized
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: than going to get a job at a retail business,
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: a brick and mortar business, a restaurant, a bartender. And
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: so what's happening right now is the separation of people
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: who are inquisitive enough to research how do I turn
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: this into a business, this media thing, and the people
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: who are like, Okay, I see what these ten people
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: I look up to are doing, how can I mimic them?
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: And if nine out of ten of those people are
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: just taking deals where they're giving up ownership and releasing
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: the relinquishing their IP, then ninety percent of the industry
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: is learning the wrong thing. My goal with Joe is
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: not just a selfish we want to succeed goal. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: truly believe, and I said this in a spaces with
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Joe and Danny from the Stop last night. I said,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: I want to give the information out for free. I
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: don't want I don't want money for any of it,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: because I want to be in an ecosystem where some
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: of the people I may want to sign do business
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: with down the road are just as knowledgeable as me.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: I don't want to be working with people that are
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: lost in the abyss aloof don't have a clue how
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: to do business, because then it's me teaching you everything.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: So what's the blueprint? Because I've said, I mean I
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: can get people our blueprint. But our blueprint is unique?
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: But why hold on? Why is it unique?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: Was it unique or is it just that it worked
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: for you?
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: It's a niche category that we're in is as finances.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: So take that back. It's not unique. It's your category
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: is niche. Your business model is actually just you guys
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: understanding how to do business. And that we got to
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: stop making doing good business taboo. Why is that such
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: a mythical thing. Business is business. It doesn't matter if
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: you're selling cars, it doesn't matter if you're selling content.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: It doesn't matter if you're selling CDs or vinyl. Good
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: business is good business. We are accustomed in music to
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: taking bad deals because we need to, and that needs
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: to be eliminated. That from an integral point needs to
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: be eliminated. This is the revolution of the multi media landscape.
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: D two CE direct to consumer is the new path.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: If everyone's out here chanting, go sign a deal with Spotify,
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: Go sign a deal with Amazon. And I don't think
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: it's a bad thing if you do. But if that's
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: all you hear, and how do you know what your
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: capabilities are in a direct consumer marketplace?
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: But most people are lazy too, though they don't want to.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: They don't want to really be independent because it's a
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: lot that goes into being completely independent.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: There you go, well risk off the two.
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: Well, there you go, Well this is something we should
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: talk about. You can de risk yourself. But then don't
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: expect upside. Be okay getting a salary and stop looking
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: googly eyed at your company that you work for when
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: the owners get all the upside and saying where's my piece? Well,
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: you don't get a piece. You're de risked.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: It's called plug and play for you. There's a happy
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: medium that you can sign and still have some level
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of independence from the ancillary thing. Because I always look
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: at podcasting as not necessarily the content that makes money
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: is the ancillary things around it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: No, the content can make money, and that's where I
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: want to help you. We're trained to think and we've
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: been trained more specifically in recent time, to think that streaming,
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: let's talk about music and content, that streaming has devalued ip,
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: whether it's music, content, audio, it's not true. It's just
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: that no one's taking the steps to see what their
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: value is where it really stands. Because if all you're
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: doing is signing exclusive deals, you're de risking yourself. You're
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: also putting a ceiling above you that says I'm worth
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: X because company Y says this is what I'm worth.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: But the calculation's wrong. What they give you in a
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: deal is not what you're worth. That's what they're willing
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: to pay you. Their calculation on you is what you're worth,
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: but they don't tell you that. If if I work
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: at Spotify right yep, and I come to EYL, I said, guys,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: I want to give you an exclusive licensing deal. I
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: want your audio, I want your video. I'm going to
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: give you a million dollars a year. You say, no, Ian,
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to accept a million. I'll accept one
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: point five million. But back in my calculator, I've already
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: done some crunching of numbers that says I'm going to
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: make three million off of them. Let's give them the
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: one and a half. You don't ever get to know
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: you're worth three.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: But that's part of it, is, right, is that how
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: do even coming up with valuations?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: It's tough.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: It's not language that gets spoken about, like how do
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: we even know what it's worth?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Right? So like, good.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Question, Well how do we even know what the numbers are?
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Really? If you really want to be technical.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: Well I'm going to tell you how. Now, you guys,
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: this is something you're familiar with. We've built an enormously
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: scaled business with the Joe Budden network at Patreon. So
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: here's the thing. You can't know what your value is
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: with a streamer. If the streamer has come up with
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: their own formula to pay you out for every fifteen
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: hundred streams you get the equivalent of one album sale. Well, well,
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: then how the fuck am I supposed to really know
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: what I'm worth? But if you're a Patreon and you
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: say every piece of content a la carte that you
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: want to watch on my Patreon cost ten bucks, and
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: every subscription that we offer to a customer is either five, ten, fifteen,
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: twenty five, or fifty dollars per month, then all of
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: a sudden, you can figure out what you're worth. Your
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: fans will dictate it. It's not a guessing game. And
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: that's where I get frustrated.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: This is real quick because there's that moment I'm sure
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: most people were looking at it maybe five six years
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: ago when the Spotify situation did come up and you
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: guys say no, right, and.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: Then pivotal moment in the in the industry or podcasts go.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Ahead, right, and obviously Patreon, we will own Patreon.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Understand how Patreon works.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: There was like some creative things that were given to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you guys or earned by you guys. The moment when
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I believe it was Wall Street Journal puts out the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: article this year New York Times, New York Times talk
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: about conviction in the belief of what you guys had
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: to the point of this year when it's like we told.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: You yes, talk about that. So this goes back to
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: us being in a war room, Joe and I, because
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: it really is it's just me and Joe, Keeb and
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Corey at the very most, talking behind the scenes of
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: what we think things are, what are we witnessing, how
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: are we looking at the data? Because to be transparent
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: with you, we're not just a media company, and we're
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: not just a media company. We're a data company.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I have been.
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Collecting the data from every platform that will provide it
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: for us for almost ten years, and so I'm not
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: looking at stats or analytics anymore. I'm looking at a blueprint.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: I'm looking at a story. The numbers tell a story.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Who's listening, where they're listening, from, what times they're listening,
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: what's the retention rate? Somewhere along the lines of twenty
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: eighteen to twenty twenty, I was watching an audience become
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: ritualistically attached to the show in a way where I'm like,
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: this is no longer about popularity, this is something much bigger.
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: I was watching they're listening and viewing habits and thinking
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: to myself, wait a second, how much money is it
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: possible for us to earn if we weren't under an
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: exclusive licensing deal. What if we My first thought was,
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: what if we created our own app and we just
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: had everyone coming directly to us. I thought, okay, Google,
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: like we could set up passive Google ad Sense, we
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: could set up a subscription model. I wasn't thinking Patreona first,
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: but then I started looking at the weekly listenership. How
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: many people were showing up weekly, let's call it a million.
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: Let's just for sake of this conversation, say a million
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: people a week were listening to two episodes. So that's
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: over four million unique listeners a month. And I started
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: doing maths. I went like this, this is literally what
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: I did. I took out my calculator and I said, okay,
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: let's call it four million people times.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Two percent.
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: Four million people listening a month times two percent of
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: the audience is eighty thousand people. What if I can
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: get eighty thousand people to pay us a monthly subscription.
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: And then I did the math and I said, times
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: ten bucks, eight hundred thousand a month. If I can
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: get eighty thousand people to move away from Spotify, to
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: move away from our free tier, and to pay for
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: a direct subscription to exclusive content, not bonus content that's
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: the lazy way out of Patreon, but to exclusive content,
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: well then I have an eight hundred thousand dollars a
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: month business, which far exceeds what we were getting at Spotify,
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: which far exceeds the offers I was receiving from other
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: competing platforms. And that's where the dreaming, the thoughts turned
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: into conviction. Joe and I looked and I said, buddy,
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: two percent, that's nothing. You think if we shut down
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: a show off of Spotify and Apple right now, two
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: percent not coming. They're watching this shit forty hours a week.
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: But they're hooked. This is their Howard Stern. This gets
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: them through work. They use it for entertainment, they listen
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: with their significant other. They're laughing, they're crying. They're winning
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: with us. And I just my calculation was simple. I
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: don't see offers anywhere close to that. The opportunity is
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: much greater for us to take a swing here. And
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: I said, as long as we own a piece of
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: the company we get in business with, then I think
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: it's a zero risk proposition. And that's how the Patreon
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: conversation started. I didn't just want and we went in
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: there and we didn't get a dollar. We didn't want money,
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: we wanted no advance, we wanted no support. We just
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: wanted the ability to really figure out our value and
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: we wanted skinning the game with the company we were
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: going to bring that value to and we got both.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: So let's talk about this Patreon situation. You guys, surenumber
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: one Patreon.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Number one, Yes, have been number one for quite a
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: long time, but the biggest We are the biggest network
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: and creator to ever touch.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Down a Patreon. Okay, factually, factually actually, so Patreon. Let's
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: let's really break this down because a lot of other
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: people have followed the Patreon model. Yes, I'm not really
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: sure how well is working out for everybody, definitely, and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: there's other people that have different variations of it. Eighty
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: five South they have their own app. That's great, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: like I said, even the reason why I said that
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: our situation is a little different is because me personally, right,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I don't see the value in charging for content. We
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: have a paywall, but our paywall is a subscription based
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: model for our educational services, which I think is beautiful.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: But that's the kind of a form of a paywall, right,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: So I think that there's different ways to kind of
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: have different levels of paywall. But you guys do it
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: where you're still putting out free content all the time
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: on YouTube, then you absolutely have the Patreon model. Like
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: I said, people have tried to just go full Patreon.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: People have tried to do what you do fifty to fifty. Yep,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's working for a lot of people.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I haven't studied the analytics. So why
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: is it not working for everybody? And what are people
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: doing wrong that you did? Right? That's a really cool question.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's not I don't answer your question.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's not working for people. I don't
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: think people are working for themselves. I think people come
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: up with every excuse in the book why things aren't working,
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: and what they're not doing is sitting down with one
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: or two people that they have a chemistry with on
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: the business and creative side to say, what have we
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: not tried yet? Okay, my formula isn't necessarily going to
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: work for Eyl. Eyl's formula is not necessarily going to
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: work for Joe and Jada. Everybody has a different audience, right.
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: But what I think happens is people hit a wall quickly,
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: which we've at so many walls, and based on what
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: you do after you hit that wall determines where you
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: land next. And I think it's not that it's not
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: working for people. I think it's people aren't taking enough
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: initiative to work for themselves. This isn't the land of
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: like if a doesn't work that means B through Z
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: isn't going to work. You have to be willing to
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: try some things. You have to be willing to say
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: I'm only putting out one piece of content a week, Well,
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: maybe I need to put up five. Maybe I need
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: to release every day until I start to get a
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: gauge of what works and what doesn't for me. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: so I also want to make clear the scale of
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: our business is not something that I think every business
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: is going to have. Where the unicorn. Yeah, of course,
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: so let's not compare apples to arms.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: But it's still something that but it's still something that
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: you can It might not be how much money you
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: make it on Patreon. You saw in the New York
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Times twenty million.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Dollars was accurate at least.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, so you're making a million dollars a month on Patreon.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Somebody can make one hundred thousand.
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: So what about someone making And this is where I
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: get mad at people like you, guys who are so educated,
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: so well versed in the business. Lane, stop throwing those
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: numbers out. Why can't you tell people get one hundred
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: people to subscribe for ten bucks a month, that's a
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: thousand dollars a month passive that you don't have that
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: changes your movements, that maybe freeze you up one day
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: a week that you can now dedicate to content. Everyone's
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: looking to be a millionaire.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: I never even considered the numbers we're doing right now
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: outside of a calculation based on listenership. I didn't know
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: if it was actually gonna happen. But the goal was
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: how do we become non reliant on the systems that
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: are in place for everyone else? That was the goal.
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: People want something that is so fucking pipe dreaming man,
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: and like, at some point, as leadership in this industry,
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: we have to stop putting these ridiculous numbers in front
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: of people and just say, hey, work on securing one
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: hundred people to subscribe to your channel. One hundred, then
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: work on one thousand. My theory is a thousand paid
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: subscribers changes your world forever because it's a monthly subscription,
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: it's reoccurring revenue, it's the you now have a marketplace
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: to sell hard products, ticket sales experiences. I would say
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: five to ten different verticals to them, and it could
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: turn into a multimillion dollar business at a thousand people.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying you're making one hundred thousand a month,
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: and I'm not saying you're making millions a year. I'm
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: saying the potential is there. And I'm not mad at you.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: When I say mad, I don't mean literally, I just
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: mean I think because we are in a position where
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: we earn in a really big way in our categories,
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: we tend to project our goals onto people that are
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: just starting out, and I think it discourages them. And
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying I'm with you. I've done it before
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: and I'm mad at myself for doing it. But I
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: think we need to give more value to starting at
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: the bottom and genuinely working your way up and through
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: the process learning how to build a business, not learning
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: how to become famous. There's a difference. I know a
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: lot of people that are famous that are broke, so
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: people are actually after the wrong thing. In my opinion,
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: I'd like to see a bunch of non famous people
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: learn the business and get rich.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: It is getting well saturated with celebrities that it is
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: getting fast tracking celebrities of fast tracking podcast, Let's see.
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: Honest celebrities are not I'm gonna tell you something celebrities,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: in my opinion, are fast tracking failure. I've watched Spotify.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: This isn't a disk. I've watched Spotify, Amazon, all the
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: big streamers go out and get the biggest names in
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: the world. Not only do those names not deliver a show,
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: but even when they deliver a show, they're not delivering numbers.
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: It's actually the opposite of what you thought you were
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: going to get. Now, if you go get that same
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: celebrity to post an Instagram in a bikini or next
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: to a pile of money, you may get three hundred
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: thousand people to like it.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but what does that do for the overall business?
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: Right talks the whole industry.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: So that's the part.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Right, So now when the company says, hey, we tried
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: it with celebrity A, We've never given that budget again.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: We saw that failed. Right now, that money comes down.
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: Across Story two, not just celebrities, but actual valued enterprises
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: and ip that do deserve it. See, And that's why
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: I've done everything in my power with Joe to separate
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: ourselves from what the crowds are doing. You know, like
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: we're watching something very special happen right now with Netflix
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: and podcasting.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: This is a good segue.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Actually, let me backtrack.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: Spotify in twenty eighteen to twenty twenty were experimenting with advertising,
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: stitched advertising, ad reads, all that stuff. We went from
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: the first exclusive podcast in twenty eighteen to one of
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: let's say a thousand that were signed to Spotify. And
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: when everyone started taking on stitched ads, I begged Joe,
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: I said please, I said, I said, please, Let's not
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: take a single ad. The reason was I saw the
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: experience of podcasting being interrupted and devalued. You couldn't get
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: through a thirty minute podcast without hearing fourteen ads. I
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: was turning shows off that I used to listen to religiously.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: So that's why I asked him stay away. Yeah, we
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: lost money, we lost potential money, but we gained the
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: respect and kept the experience at a premium for our
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: listenership and viewership, and that ultimately helped us win over
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: any sponsors or advertisers or corporate partnerships down the road
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: that we would have had in the moment for light money.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: You talked about experiencing world.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Obviously you guys super successful again a unicorn in the space,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: but you said you experienced walls and barriers. Oh yeah,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: obviously we talked about the Spotify thing, But I think
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: change is something that a wall that people kind of
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: overlook most shows.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: When they have a change, show is going to not
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: do well.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Guys have had change, and it almost feels like it's
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: a constant change, whether it's we go from one day
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: to three day, we went from three holes to five holes,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: to six holes to one hole, memssma, and the show
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: just becomes even more successful with each variation. How is
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that maintained? And how did did you experience aniversity at
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the time it's happening, because it feels like it's just
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: like a natural thing. All right, well, here's how we're
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: going to respond to it.
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: Those were scary times because it was like a first anything.
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: When you're first going through it is extremely intimidating, and
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: when all the adversity that you guys are talking about
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: was occurring in real time. Yes, we were fearful because A,
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: you don't know how the audience is going to react.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: B you don't know how the partners you have are
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: going to react. And see it also leaves the show
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: in limbo, so you know, referencing losing you know, our
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: original cast when when the big split happened, that was
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: shocking for us. I mean, things weren't good energetically between
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: the crew, But that happens in any group setting musically,
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: like it's across the board in businesses. It's no different
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: in podcasting. So things weren't kosher in terms of like
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: how people were getting along, and it was also noticeable
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: publicly on the show. So when we face those moments,
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: I would be lying if I said, like, yeah, I
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: wasn't worried, Like I just wasn't sure of what the
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: outcome was going to be, and you know that's worrisome.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: And we were at this like this turning point. Each
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: time we were it felt like like an animal outgrowing
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: their space, like I need a bigger space to live,
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: Like like we needed to shed the skin and go
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: through that experience and whatever came on the other side,
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: we needed to go through it and experience it to
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: get better. And so yeah, definitely questions from the partners,
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: definitely questions from leadership, myself, the remaining hosts when there
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: would be these these complications and and you learn how
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: to be a business owner, you learn how to handle
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: these difficult times with grace even if you're panicking inside,
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: because there was that this.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: One part too.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: It was like the JBP network, Yeah, uh had other
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: shows Oh that failed?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Right, So like yeah, like.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, there's no like sweet way around. Like we started shows.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: We were ambitious. We were watching the success of the
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: Joe Budden podcast and we said we could do more.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: And honestly, some of it was premature, like we ran
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: into the fire thinking we could handle things that we
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: absolutely were not ready for. But doing that made us stronger.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: It made us so much more powerful. It gave us
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: experiences that a conversation from one of our elder statesmen
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: who's been there and done it, like a Steve Harvey
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: or they couldn't have taught us. Some things can't be
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: told and received, They have to be experienced so that
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: you know what what you went through. You could you
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: could recall it down the line. You could use it
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: as you know, power of information to help you with
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: what's coming next. And yeah, we were not ready. We
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: had we started shows, they failed, they started great, but
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: because we were so green thumb and in knowing how
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: to be actual network executives, talent management, all the stuff
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: that we would that I was handling for Joe and
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: the podcast. You multiply that and you're understaffed, You're you're
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: not ready for certain things. It could have drowned us,
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: but it didn't. We never let it really go that far.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Talk about Okay, you talked about Netflix. Let's get into
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: this conversation. So Netflix shaking up the industry. They just
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: signed Ihearts, some of the iHeart podcasts, Yes, Breakfast Club,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Joe and Jada, like nineteen shows. So I spoke to
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Charlamagne yesterday actually about this, yeah, and he had an
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: interest in take on it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: What was his take?
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: His take was that it's beneficial. You don't really know
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: exactly how it's going to play out, but it's beneficial
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: from the standpoint that YouTube has been taking advantage of
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: creators for a long time and that there's no alternative
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: to YouTube. Netflix obviously a higher level of production, So
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: it's is it Traditionally Netflix showed like you have to
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: even if you're filming a documentary on Netflix, to my understanding,
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: it has to be done with a certain level of camera.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: They're not going to even four K. So YouTube you
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: can do anything. You can put anything on YouTube.
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: Yes, But but okay, so keep going.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: So so he was just saying that he felt that,
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: like you said, it wasn't one hundred percent show of
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: like the total outcome, but he just feels like, Okay,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: you know, Netflix is a it's a situation that could
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: potentially shake up the industry. And add I agree with
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: add more options better than having like a monopoly in
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: a sense as far as just YouTube controlling all of
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: the content. And then I look at it from a
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: standpoint of like, obviously that's going to come with a
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: certain level of guarantees as far as money. Going back
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: to this situation, it also some creators might be a
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: little scared and nervous because it's like me, personally, I'm
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: gonna be watching a lot less breakfast club content, not
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: because I don't like the breakfast club, but I'm not
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: on Netflix that like I'm on YouTube all day on
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: my phone. Right, Netflix is something I have to actually
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: take time sit down on my couch eleven o'clock at night,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: like the television on I make a conscious decision. I've
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: never really watched Netflix on my phone other if I
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: download the documentary on a plane. But if I'm watching
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: just a random interview, I'm in the spur of the moment.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I just want to listen to it on my car.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: You want to hit YouTube, get in, get out. But
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Netflix also, I mean, you know, they have shows that
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: have billion Diddy documentary. I was like billions of streams
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: already in a couple of weeks, so they've pushed it
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: to the audience too, so they things can go viral
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: on Netflix as well.
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: Things do.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, Netflix coming into podcast industry, you talked about it.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: It's kind of reminiscent of something that happened a couple
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: of years ago. So let's have this conversation.
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: Sure, I think Netflix and YouTube were at war. Podcasting
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: changed the habits of listenership and viewership. Netflix and YouTube
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: are at war with cable television viewers and podcast listenership
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: across all DSPs. Vodcasts, which are the video side of
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: the podcasts, are becoming so relevant and so imperative to
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: premium platforms that without it, all you have are ten
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: to twelve episode programmatic shows like Ozark, and those take
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: six months two years to make, and then after three
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: days of being out, what are people watching? What they've
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: realized is what we've been saying for a long time.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: We're putting out two episodes a week, three hours each.
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: We're giving this is just publicly. So the Joe Budden
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: podcast gives you six hours of free public and then
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: another six to eight hours paywalled, So we're talking about
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: between twelve and twenty hours a week.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: We own the market share.
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: Netflix looks now and goes what Spotify did back in
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: twenty eighteen. Holy shit, we're paying the labels all this
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: money for the music licenses we have. But what if
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: we enter the podcast market space and don't have to
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: pay the labels their share because we're doing original audio
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: with podcasts.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: That means.
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: We don't have to pay the labels. We can collect
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: profits every quarter, which means our stockholders will invest more
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: money because they'll get a bigger dividend.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: The war is starting not only between YouTube and sp
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: and Netflix, but it's YouTube and Netflix trying to figure
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: out how to take over the most listened to and
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: watch content in the world, which is podcasting. This goes
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: back to my vision for what my daughter is going
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: to do for her first job. They're betting ten years
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: down the line right now. They don't give a fuck
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: what show this is Netflix. They don't care what works
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: and what doesn't. That's why they're not negotiating with individual
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: shows right now.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: I don't know what your conversation with Charlot Man was,
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: but he didn't negotiate that deal with Netflix, right I Heeart,
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: it was I Heart, it was saying iHeart.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: The beneficiary was the sweet of iHeart podcast.
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: Keyword it's a sweet. I Heeart was approached by Netflix.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: And now I'm I'm speculating. I don't really know if
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: this is how it works, but I'm using my better judgment.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: I Heeart was approached by Netflix. Netflix came up with
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: a really beneficial situation for iHeart to take their podcasts
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: and put them on a platform like Netflix, not one
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: at a time, a suite of them. And we just
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: saw this recently happen with a competitor, Spotify, Bill Simmons
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: and The Ringer. They announced fourteen of I'm paraphrasing fourteen
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: of his shows. We're going to be the first offerings
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: from Spotify to Netflix for their partnership with Netflix. And
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: my first thought was, didn't they buy The Ringer from
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: Bill Simmons? So that means Bill Simmons didn't negotiate with Netflix.
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: I'm sure, he's pretty angry right now. I'm sure Spotify
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: gets all the upside of the Netflix deal. I'm sure
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: iHeart gets all the upside of the iHeart situation with
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: all their shows, and so what they're doing with.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: iHeart doesn't own We talked about this downstairs breakfast club
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: is different because that's the iHeart entity. The individual shows
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: I don't notice for certain, but I know it.
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: What shows are you referencing? Just give me a couple
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: Joe and Jada. They own their own show.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: They don't, I'm asking.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's it's interesting.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, no, I don't know, only because I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: was on a phone of iHeart yesterday.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Ok. Yeah, I was literally.
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Tell me I'm because I'm just expecting for it.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: So a lot of what's changed is that what you're
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: talking about is one hundred percent correct. When podcasting started,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: it was just the audio experience, and then a lot
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: of shows we had we started with it became a
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: video experience. In the original contracts, there is nothing for
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: the video right those are old old school contracts. So
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: now they've actually started putting language language. This guy's good
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: YouTube rights inside of the language of their contract or
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: video rights or video rights. So, now if you signed
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a deal.
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: Like if I'm Joe and Jada in twenty twenty four,
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: I start my podcast, do you think I don't know
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: who they have a deal with.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: But they have it, I don't know.
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, let's just say they have a deal with some network.
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: Do you think that their deal didn't include video rights
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: twenty twenty four?
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure it did because the language has changed,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: even in negotiating contracts, and even with us, like in
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: our contracts, it was like, what's the matter, No, it's real,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: these are real conversations. It was like, look, not something
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: that we're interested in, right, because we built this independently,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: right of course, and so most people don't have a
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: video component of their pocket today's they do. Labels know that,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: labels being the powers of corporation, corporations, and so now
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: it's in the contract, yes.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Right, so they'll throw a little bit more money.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: In it when you say standard, oh, let's not just
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: yeahmy because we can't do that.
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: What's the matter you afraid of offending somebody? Can't we do?
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: What is going on here?
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: Anyone's contract saying that.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Ihearted and the Spotify's of the world offering.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Now I'm saying for us, we've never given up any
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: level of a video at all. So I just said,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: but I know that there's other people eighty five South,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: they never gave up their video.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So now think about when did they start. They started
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: along time, long time exactly. I'm talking about the new work.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Content people that's coming into the game right now, in
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: the past three or four years, that they're signing deals
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: off the rip. Yes, yes, that's giving up.
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: No, no, no, stop, don't ask the questions. So now
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: we're now we're gonna Now we're gonna sound crazy. You
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: know you're not gonna do this with me. Yes, they
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: are giving up their video rights.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Off the off the risk.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, they don't have any yet.
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: No, because they want a bigger check.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: That's that part too. And they haven't even experienced what
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: it is to be.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: But they know that they're gonna It's not like YouTube
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: is a secret at this point. They know that video
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: is a major part. Probably more people might even watch
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: the video than they listen to the audio.
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: That is a fact.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Well who knows it better. They know, like you said,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: they're looking at it. It's the same thing that you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: said earlier. If they offer you one point two and
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: master Pizzo is just thirty years ago. If they offered
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: me one, I must be worth one hundred.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: They know if they offer you two million or ten
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: million for your video rights and your audio rights, they
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: know they're gonna make thirty off of it, right because
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: no one.
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: No one's investing to get their money.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Back, right, They're invested. Make the profit.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: There's a margin. Here's the other thing, guys, we're playing
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: games here, we're playing semantics. Joe Rogan took his shit
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: off of YouTube for his check at Spotify and experimented
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: with his video on Spotify. That didn't work. Spotify has pivoted,
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: and now they cut a deal with Netflix so that
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: they could now take the video of all the podcasts
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: they either owner have exclusive licenses too, and maneuver those
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: video podcasts however the fuck they want. That's Spotify and Netflix.
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: What do you think is happening with Netflix and iHeart?
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: I think I'm just guessing Iheart's having trouble making money
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: on the audio side of all their businesses, terrestrial, radio, digital.
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: They don't know how to monetize it themselves. Yes, on
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: a passive ad revenue fill. Maybe they're filling thirty to
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: fifty percent of their ad inventory, but that's nothing. That's
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: low level mass corporate integration with products. They want to
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: see real money. They have to give over an asset
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: that is helping another company gain market share. What helps
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: market share when you could bundle up fifty shows, fifty
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: iHeart shows that have video components to it, and say,
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: all fifty of these are now property of Netflix. We're
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: going to take three of your eight episodes per show
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: and air it on Netflix. What happens with the creators.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Like, oh yay, I'm on Netflix.
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: But what really just happened is there was an enormous
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: acquisition between Netflix and iHeart. Netflix paid iHeart multiples of
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: the value of those vodcasts, so that iHeart actually had
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: a margin on these fifty shows that they've been investing
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: in for years, probably just making a small three to
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: five percent margin year over year. It's causting them brain
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: damage to deal with each of these artists. So what's
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: the one way they can go about or without having
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: to negotiate with each artist. You go to the Ihearts,
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: You go to Spotify's what do you guys have rights
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: to show? Me, show me a catalog. We want to
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: buy in bulk. In bulk, you get a deal, right
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: in any industry. Yeah, you buy one of something, you
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: pay premium, you buy fifty if something, you get a deal.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Both parties win.
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: In fact, I'm sure even the creators of the show's
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: got to bump in their salary. They had to get
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: an extra they bump in their salary.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Bumping this.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: We don't know, but we would have.
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying I know anything, just saying they're getting
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: a bump in their pay.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: So here's the question though, right because they didn't get
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: their own structured deal.
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: I would I would have to take a strong stance
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: on absolutely not. But that's my opinion. I'm probably wrong.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: You could whatever, Yeah, you could be.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I'm wrong.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: What you said factual in the sense that when you
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: offer a bundle, you're gonna get offered an amount. But
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: if you offer something singular, it's going to be premium.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: So obviously you're debut is premium. This is premium.
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: We're top, we're super premium.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Super premium.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Right, Yes, so Netflix may come to you, maybe they don't,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: I have we have business with netflik.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what I deal.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Here's the difference, Okay.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: Because this is I just saw you posted a Netflix.
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: I posted something. I wanted to just show people the
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: Netflix logo on our show.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Promoting the upcoming events.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: We were actually lucky enough to have the privilege to
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: talk about the new Jake Paul Anthony Joshua fight that's
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: December nineteenth, this Friday, on Netflix. And yeah, we weren't
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: part of these announcements of we're going to be putting
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: our content on Netflix. I love Netflix. I think they're
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: a great platform. I think they've captured our generation. I
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: think they're absolutely competition to any platform you could put
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: in the in the the air around them, and a
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: cultural staple that will not be going anywhere anytime soon.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: What I think is genius that let me let me slow.
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: Now, we didn't do a deal where our content is
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: going to Netflix yet. Our deal that we did with
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: Netflix was it was like an advertising partnership. You know,
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: we have we have partnerships. It has nothing to do
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: with our content being on Netflix.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: So it's just the content. Your content is not on Netflix. Netflix,
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: no at the logo on it.
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: Not yet, No, not yet.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: So Netflix just put the logo on your show. Well,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: you just have a second.
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: We we logo original integrations for.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: Shows that it's a commercial. It's a commercial.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: We're doing commercials.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: You have a commercial for Netflix.
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, no, no, we did. Lower Third
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: is just one of the branded pieces of content. But
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: we didn't integration deal with them. Where when we agree
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: on an event or a show or a doc or
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: a movie that we both like and feel like reaches
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: an audience that can be impactful through our show, that
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: we do business together. That's not going to get any
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: deeper into the business.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: No, but what does that mean you're running a commercice.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: It means that that they that they talk to us individually,
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: they had they talked to me.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: I get that part. I'm just saying on the Joe
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: Button podcast, right, Yeah, I have I see a Netflix
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: thing on there. Yes, the logo you mean the Netflix LOGOIX.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: So you have like a five minute part of the
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: Joe Button pocat I think it was like twenty minutes
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: the other day. You're talking about the fight and we don't.
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: Have to do twenty Listen. I don't want to get
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: into the details of my deal structure. The point is
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: that we have a partnership with them. You just saw
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: a first iteration of it. It's us talking about the
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: Jake Paul Anthony Joshua fight that's exclusively on Netflix, and
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: that was the extent of it. Yeah, that's it for now.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: But the content is not on Netflix.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: No.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: No, So that transition from then you spoke about it earlier,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: in the transition from we're not doing ads to now
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: we are taking ads.
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: No, we're doing partnership partners partners do partnerships. Ads are like.
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: One off, like, hey this Friday, Look December nineteenth, catch
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: the Jake Paul Anthony Joshua fight only on Netflix.
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: I'm Joe Budden. We don't do that.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Don't have it. You have an integrated conversation that's organic. Yes,
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: it's not just integrated. It's very much collaborative, interwoven. It's
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: very interwoven. Good words.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: We have a very bespoke situation with everyone we work with.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Because before the Netflix I was thinking prize picks and
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: the way that was done was very interwoven. And it
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: makes me think of, especially for creators, how business begets
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: more business right, And so if that relationship works, it's
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: a proven modeling test to say look, we're good at
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: doing this.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: I know shows that have twenty five ad sponsors. I
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: can't listen to their show.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: There's a lot.
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: I mean, I would say ninety percent of the podcast
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: out there now that choose to turn on stitched advertising
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: or take on dozens of partners. I can't tell I
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: know the show. I just can't tell you what products
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: or businesses those shows are behind because they're flooded with bullshit.
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: We went the other way. You don't see how little
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: we shove down people's throats so that when we actually
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: talk about something, you're going to know we believe in
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: it and that it's an actual added layer of value
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: to our listeners and viewers. You can be assured if
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: we get behind something, it's because we believe in it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: I've been offered every check from every business that you
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: see on every other podcast, and we've turned it down
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: because it's going to disrupt the experience. At some point, podcasters,
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: media personalities, networks have to make a decision what's more important,
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: what is more valuable the experience or this check today?
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: And sometimes people miscalculate and they think the check, Oh,
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: it'll help me make more money, it'll help me up
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: my production. They're lying it's all ego driven. The truth is,
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: if you can't keep the audience engaged and happy, eventually
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: the audience getting upset and moving off your platform will
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: cost you all the checks you're being offered.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: Well, you also deliver content differently too. Yes, your show
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: is not based around guests. Yeah. No, the show has
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: a revolving cast of characters. Yes it does, with no
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: disrespect to anybody else. But let's just be honest. That's
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: what happened. That's what happened.
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: I agree with that, and I'm so grateful.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: But it's not like you locked in like you lock
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: then to Joe Button and then the surrounding other people.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: It could be Mona one day, it could be Queen's flip,
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: it could be Ish, it could be Roy Maury like
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: they haven't No, no, huh, Maul and Roy did it. Well,
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: you're saying in the totality of the show.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: Oh you're saying over the life of it.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Oh no.
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: When you said Roy, I didn't know.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Roy Woods Junior and Rory Roy Jr.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Is wild guy.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: Shout out to Maury Povich. But that's a that's a
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think there's any other show that does that
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: to my knowledge, that like a high profile.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: Where the SNL of twenty twenty five of this generation,
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: where the the Office meets SNL.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: That's good where that's a good one.
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: We put we're a platform, like we hope you use
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: us and then go off and do your own thing.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: So that's that's the thing You're not You're not going
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: to be here for forever.
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: No, we will be here forever.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about the people.
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: I don't think. So I hope. I hope people go
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: off and do their own thing and then want to
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: come back as like you saw that Eddie Murphy doc. Yeah,
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: I loved it amazing, right, loved it so such an
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: incredible piece of art. But like like that, where people
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: are products of SNL, they go off do their own thing,
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: and then it's like this big deal when they come
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: revisit the set again and you know, do a monologue
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: or like, I hope that's the long term play with
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: what we're building is that we help people launch into
• 57:43
  Speaker 5: all their best capabilities and then they look at us
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: like we were this trampoline for them.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: Do they know that? You know? That was extremely insightful
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: what you just said. As far as SNL, I'm wondering
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: do they know.
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: I want to come back they got to I don't
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: think everyone wants to come back there for two years.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do my thing. I'm gonna get busy. I
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: don't know if they know that.
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I think the industry has trained most
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: of our talent and best creatives to hold on to
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: things as tight as they can for as long as
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: they can, because it represents security financially. The truth is
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: everything's nothing's forever, and sometimes it's better to get what
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: serves you best and then move forward and know that
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: you did something special somewhere and you could always revisit.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: It, but a part of it is in ess now
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: it would be is a good comparison. And I think
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: about that, is that the grooming and the expectation like
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: that's going to happen, right, So, like is that part
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: of the process too, like you, I don't know. But
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: there's not a writer's room for this, right like some
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: of those writers, not.
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: A traditional writer's room, but we do have like a
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: whiteboard and you know, Corey, Corey can tell you like
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: that's part of every episode is watching the cast go
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: up to the whiteboard and show their contributions, and I've
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: seen Joe and other cast members be like, Ah, that's
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: not good, that's or that's really good. Let's do that
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: at the top. Let's put this at the There is
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: a process. Is it a traditional writers' room. Absolutely not.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: But there is a writer's room. Actually, it's just not
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: the conventional way you would expect a writer's room.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I'm only referring to that in sense of like, yes,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: those people become cast members. Those cast members come in
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: with the expectation like, this is the platform that's going
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: to get me to the next piece. Right, not in
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: a sense anymore in terms of SNL, but in that
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: that piece for short in the eighties and the nineties
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: was like, here's a launch board for me to now become.
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: I think that's happening in real time. I think people
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: are I think people are coming to that conclusion as
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: they get more time and experience around us. And I
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: really love seeing that that evolution, because there was there
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: was a different kind of pressure on Joe and I
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: when it was like everyone who comes here, this is
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: their everything. That's it's like it's almost weird it's because
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: most people in our industry are so reliant on money.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: That's all they're really focused on. And I'm not that
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: this is not applicable to the current cast. I'm just
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: saying in general, that's kind of the model that that
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: that our.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Business works on. And uh.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: Truly like I want everyone around us to soak up
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: the things that we're doing, the good the failures. It's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: like growing up man, right, Like you have parents, and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: your parents you get one or two views of your parents.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: You get the things you want to replicate, the good stuff,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: and then you get the stuff that you don't like
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: that they did. That you hope you take and say
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: I won't repeat that with my kids or with my life.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: And I hope the cast and everyone that works with
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: us does that for themselves because I want to see
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: everyone go on. I can't wait for someone that's a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: part of the show to do something bigger than what
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: we've done. That's going to be a hat tip to us.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: That's not a threat. That's a beautiful thing. I always
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: said this. I like that everyone has moved on and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: that that is no longer with us and have their
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: own shows, have their own business, have there it says
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: a lot about what we provided.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: You know, do you think that there's any real value
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: in podcasts? Oh? My god, the biggest not value as
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: far as monetary I'm talking about. Yes, all right. I
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: had a conversation with Jim Jones and I pretty much
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: told them, now, I didn't. I think that hip hop
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: was a very destructive force in our community for a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: very long period too paraphrasing. Yeah, and I think that
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: podcasting is replacing hip hop where there's value in some
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: in some love. I don't listen to podcasts, but the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: vast majority, in my opinion, is not helping. No, it's not.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: It's dumbing down society and it's not there's no value
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: in it.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: Okay, This to me is something where I think I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: can relate it to music. It all depends on what
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: you're looking for. If you want to hear dumb shit,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: there's dumb shit out there.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: But that's what's but the music. Once again, the music,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: I know, that's what gets promoted. That's what gets promoted.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: But hold on, I'm with you. But there's more optionality
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: now than ever, more people picking up microphones, putting out
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: their theories, their interests.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: It's not necessarily podcasts.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: I think that word is limiting to Okay, there's creators
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: out there that are talking, making videos, and making original
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: content about just about everything in the world, educate everything.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: Like for me, you guys were the first of a
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: show that served educational food for thought in the financial
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: space that I felt like was like Revolutionaries. It was
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: the first of its kind where I was interested in it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: Maybe it was your approach, maybe it was your tone,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: maybe it was your knowledge, maybe it was a mix
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: of all of it, but I was actually interested to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: see how you guys were going to build and mold
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: this thing the same way you guys popped out. I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: think there's dozens of other creators that offer really cool
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: insight into everything, and yeah, ninety percent of it's going
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: to be garbage, just like music, but I do think
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: there's value in it. I think there's value in really educated,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: interested people that put time and energy into shit they
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: love giving you a taste of their brain.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: But people really doing that, I feel like the vast
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: majority of people were looking at like music. At a
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: certain point, music stopped being a craft and it became
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: a hustle. And it's like it was always going to
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: be a hustle though, and it's like, ya, I could
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: just get in front of a microphone just that ends.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: The first time they run into an obstacle, they're gone,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: So we don't have to worry about them. I'm saying,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: let's look at the people that are actually building catalog
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: of interesting shit. If we focus on negative, we're going
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: to find negative. It's like it's like with a relationship.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: You want to find something that's going to piss you
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: off about your significant other. You look deep enough, you're
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: going to find something.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you said once that the podcast space was a bubble.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: Is what a bubble? Oh yeah, it's popped already and
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: it's pops. You're going to see a crumble right now.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: So that leads me to that.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: So yeah, if it's trumbling already right now.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: So then what rises to the top is that the value?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Is it the creativity? Who are the subgenre of people
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: that will rise. They're the ones who are the unicorns
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: or the new creators out here that are about to come.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: It's the people who set themselves up for success. They
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: could be right now. It could be the guy with
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: a thousand views an episode, not a thousand subscribers, a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: thousand views an episode, but is genuinely putting in the
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: investigative time, doing the research, giving you information that has value.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: Those people are going to rise, Those creators are gonna
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: Those creators are going to succeed into the future. What
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: has popped is the hustle for a quick back to
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: me that is over because these big companies aren't interested
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: in one show. They're interested in doing data digging, and
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: the only way to do that is to go to
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: like an iHeart er Spotify and go, hey, give me
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: your fifty biggest shows, give me your one hundred biggest shows.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: Let's watch how this plays out for eight months to
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: a year. We'll have all the information we need. After that,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: we'll cut everyone from the deal and we'll go sign
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 5: the cream of the crop.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: And that's what I was.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: That's what I think.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: Kind of a friend of mine at a network and
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: he was saying, like, people come to him like a
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: lot of rappers and ask him like you know, and
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: he's like, look, if this during the pandemic, I could
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: have definitely gave you a million dollars. At one point,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: He's like, but the shit is different now, Like you know,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: money is drought up there's more saturated, like the money
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: is not there, so now you have to bet on yourself.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: It's not even like you're out of luxury. I want
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: to bet on myself because I believe myself, Like you
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: have to bet on yourself because there's not the same
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: money that's floating around as far as the advertising deals structure,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: So you can't even get a good deal if even
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: if you want to a lot of these people.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: Let me give you a good analogy. I was just
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: stucking to my barber the other day and this this
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: was like great timing. Shout out to my barber, Brian.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: Him and I have really good talks when he comes
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: to cut my hair. He was telling me about his
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: barbershop that he owns. He has ten different barbers and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: his business is based off of two different things. And
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: this immediately struck me as this is the podcast business.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: Two different forms of business. One is walkins people that
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: walk off the street into the barbershop, and the other
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: side of the business is each barber's book of business.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: Long term client tell that they build relationships with over time,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 5: and I thought, oh my god, that's podcasting. We have
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: a bunch of people that have entered the space that
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: are waiting for walkins, and those are the sponsors. Those
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: are Spotify's and Netflix is coming with deals. And then
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: you have the barbers that have been in the game
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: for twenty years, that have three hundred people in their
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: roll decks, that never miss a haircut every month. And
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: when he was saying it to.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: Me, I was like, holy shit, that's podcasting.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: The people that you're seeing infiltrate the market now, they're
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: here today and gone tomorrow. Those are the barbers waiting
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: for the walkin. The people that answer your question that
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: we're going to see when are the podcasts that have
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: been building a roller decks and have been learning the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: business and are figuring out how they could survive whether
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: there is rain, snow, pandemic, shut down, no ad money,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: They'll figure it out. That's who we're gonna see rise.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: And I just thought it was important because when he
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: said it to me about his barbers, I was like,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: that's exactly how I feel about what's.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Going on in podcasting right now.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: So I wanted to shout out Brian because that struck
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: me like little things like that really resonate with me.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: You touched on it, but I saw you putting your
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: story today, you said the deal number is not the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: real number. The real number is what they make off
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: of you once they have your data. Here you go.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: That's self explanatory. We were talking about this before. The
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: deal number is the number that you agree to to do.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: The work that's outlined.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 5: The real number is. It's two separate things. It's the
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: money they make above and beyond what they pay you
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: the company that hires you or does a licensing deal
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: or acquisition deal with you. And then it's the money
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: they make using the information that you provided them through
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: your term to then resell to one hundred different companies
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: to help those companies function in their businesses. And it
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: could be products. They could be selling it off to
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 5: hardware products, they could be selling companies. They could be
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: selling it off to other streamers. They could be selling
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 5: it off to other podcast businesses. Data centers. They recycle
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: that data. That shit gets sold and flipped every month
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 5: to one hundred different companies. That's where the real money is.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: You don't hear about all the data center I mean
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: like this is where. Yes, data center infrastructure is a
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: big deal in general, not just for forget podcasting, but
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: data centers are important. Why because they the data centers
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: provide information that give a blueprint to what consumers want
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: and life. That's marketing, that's that's the easiest way into
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: understanding human culture and human behavior. That's really where the
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 5: value is understanding behavior behavioral science.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: That's a fact we talked about the Patreon piece. It's
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: started as advisory. H And now that you said that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: that you know that your partner is there, I wonder
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: when you guys look at the network as a totality, Yeah,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: are you interested in adding new talent or are you
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: going with the route of we're going to create internal
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: ip When we see like an Ian and Mark show
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: and other shows, what is the strategy with the expansion
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: of the network.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: Okay, so, uh what I what what Joe and I
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: really honed in on was we have what we need
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: right this second. Let's double and triple down on stuff
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: that we could do in house. Which is the birth
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: of Podwives, which which is you know, each of us
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: that are on that show and our significant others fucking disaster.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's a successful show, but fucking disaster. I'll
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 5: leave out why. And then there's the Ian and Mark Show,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: which is more like a sketch comedy show with me
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: and Mark lemont Hill us getting in the way of
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: trying to getting in the way of each other, trying
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: to create a sitcom like that's the bottom line of it. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: It's like an office feel, and what we decided to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: do was create these shows internally that work.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: First.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: Let's let's not let's stop reaching outward, let's stop outsourcing
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 5: and bringing new people in, and let's see what we
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: could do with the people we already have. And so
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: that's phase one. Do I think we're going to get
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: to a place where we're bringing in outside town to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 5: do one off projects or different shows. I do think
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 5: that will happen eventually. I just know we're not rushing
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: into it, you know, like there's no race to to quantity,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: there's race to quality. We could do a lot with
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: a little.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: But okay, going forward in the future, looking forward in
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: the future, Yeah, you obviously manage musicians. Yes, are you
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: going to go into the space where you're going to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: be a consultant manager for podcasts? Mm hmm.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know what I'm going to do exactly. I've
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: been offered.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: I don't need it.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 5: But I've been offered financing to like create a multi
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: media management company at scale, like think about like a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: like a rock nation for.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: Podcasters, like a violator, like a violator. Yeah, well streamers
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: and podcasts and content creators.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been I've been approached about that, and I've
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: thought about that. Right now, I'm not interested in that.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: Right now, I'm focused on what I'm doing, and I
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: like staying boutique. My partner Keep and I are, you know,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: step in step, just focused on on what we can
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: focus on and build Today. A lot of times people
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: drowning opportunity, and I don't want to do that. I'll
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: always have the ability to expand, but I won't have
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: the ability to recapture where I.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: Am in the moment right now.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: So I want to focus on it because I feel
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: like it's historic and we're changing the landscape forever, and
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: that takes all my attention.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: So yeah, maybe one day, but not.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Now, I'll see it.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: We went through his whole interview, and as we were
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: talking prior to this, I realized how integral DJ Premier
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: was in this whole story.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: So I want to shout out the.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: DJ Premieer is the best ever Man, one of the
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: greatest people on Earth first, the nicest guys and most
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: iconic composers, producers, artists to ever Land on plans at Earth,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: and I am so grateful and lucky to be in
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: his presence. Without him, none of this ship you parts.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously that you get to meet, that's everything.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 5: Well, well I should go back Pap Poose, the very
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: first artist I ever managed. Prem saw me working with
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: Pap and and that's how he reached out to have
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: me start managing him. So I got perhaps blessing to
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: go into that. So it's really without Pap, I wouldn't
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: have Pream. But yes, Prem is like no pun intended,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: kicked in the door for everything else, you know, so incredible. Yes,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: and now the NAS album, it was Joe light Years see. Yeah,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: we worked that in with the family too. We got
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 5: Joe in there for the exclusive interview. I'm very proud
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: to play a role in getting the Nods and DJ
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: premiere album out. Shout out Peter bitten Bender and Mass Appeal.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: Man, we it's been an ongoing conversation for years. I've
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: managed DJ here for fifteen years, and every year we
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 5: talk about we talked about getting the NAS and preenbout
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: Mount so to finally lock in about it a little
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 5: over a year ago and start seeing the sessions come
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: to life. I used to talk as a kid about
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: how much I love NAS, and I'm lucky enough to
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 5: say that we got one of the most mythical, desired
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: hip hop projects in history out in the world. The
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: album's called Light Years. Please listen to it, enjoy it,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: let it live with you, and I hope people like it.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: I appreciate you fellas.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: Appreciate you man.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 5: Hopefully we didn't upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. Get
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 5: your business straight.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: All right, brother, I appreciate you man, Thank you, Thank
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: you for.
• 1:15:48
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