Latest / The Restaurant Guys / George Motz’s Hamburger America

Transcript

George Motz’s Hamburger America · The Restaurant Guys

• 0:42
  Mark: Hello everybody and welcome.
• 0:44
  Mark: You are listening to the restaurant guys.
• 0:46
  Mark: I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot.
• 0:48
  Mark: Together we own stage left in Kaha Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 0:52
  Mark: We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.
• 0:56
  Mark: Hello there, mark.
• 0:57
  Mark: Hey buddy.
• 0:57
  Mark: How are you doing?
• 0:58
  Mark: I'm good.
• 0:58
  Mark: Do you know that little intro always reminds me of the radio days?
• 1:01
  Mark: Yeah, we the radio.
• 1:02
  Mark: Field and the whole way we did this, we did this intro from day one.
• 1:06
  Mark: I think it was the very first day, you wrote that out for me.
• 1:10
  Mark: Yeah.
• 1:11
  Mark: Said, here, try this.
• 1:12
  Francis: Yeah.
• 1:12
  Francis: It's become, it's become, uh, ubiquitous in our heads anyway, but, you know, five days a week, that was a, there's a lot of shows.
• 1:19
  Francis: It's 500 shows anyway, but it gives the podcast, the OG feel of a radio.
• 1:23
  Francis: Program'cause the podcast is og.
• 1:25
  Francis: Yeah, it's, we are OGs.
• 1:28
  Francis: Um, we have another OG coming on the show today.
• 1:29
  Francis: Stick around for George Moats.
• 1:31
  Francis: George Moats is America's foremost expert on one of our favorite topics, the hamburger.
• 1:36
  Francis: no joke really.
• 1:36
  Francis: The guy who wrote a book, he wrote Hamburger in America.
• 1:38
  Francis: He's on television shows, he's done documentaries.
• 1:41
  Francis: He's, traveled the country and he knows more than anybody else about the hamburger and very excitingly, he just opened his first restaurant called Hamburger America in New York City.
• 1:50
  Francis: And it's.
• 1:51
  Francis: Great.
• 1:51
  Francis: And he's there and we'll, we'll let him tell you all about it a little
• 1:54
  Mark: later.
• 1:54
  Mark: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Mark: It really, really cool story.
• 1:56
  Mark: Make sure you, you stick around and listen even if we're really boring for the next five or 10 minutes.
• 2:00
  Francis: But in the spirit of point, counterpoint, mark has a topic he wants to talk about.
• 2:03
  Francis: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Francis: I want opening.
• 2:04
  Francis: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Francis: Wanna to talk about, I want talk about the July
• 2:05
  Mark: 4th cookout, you know?
• 2:06
  Mark: Oh, you didn't, you didn't phrase it that way.
• 2:08
  Mark: well I wanna talk about hot dogs for sure, but I want to talk about things that you would have at a cookout and, and hot dogs are on the list and.
• 2:15
  Mark: And if you listen to this show at all over the last 20 years, you know, my favorite hotdog is, is a place in, Clifton called Ruts Hut.
• 2:23
  Mark: Yeah, that's great.
• 2:24
  Mark: Just absolutely right on Route 21.
• 2:26
  Mark: I've been going there, it was three miles from my house.
• 2:28
  Mark: I, I could have walked.
• 2:30
  Mark: You know, if I, if I needed to,
• 2:31
  Francis: I think we've talked about this before and we may get into it a little bit with, with George later.
• 2:35
  Francis: I don't know if we'll talk about dogs at all.
• 2:36
  Francis: But the great thing about that is it's basically a fried dog and it's been there forever.
• 2:41
  Francis: And talk about og you walk into that place, you feel like you
• 2:43
  Mark: stepped into 1955.
• 2:45
  Mark: Well, I love that, that, that, and I don't know that this is true, that they say they never change the oil that they fry the hotdog in.
• 2:51
  Mark: They just keep adding more oil to the oil, so, so it's like the Sora method
• 2:55
  Francis: of oil for
• 2:56
  Mark: like a hundred years.
• 2:57
  Francis: Oh my goodness.
• 2:58
  Francis: You know, they, they, they're hamburger places that do that too, that they say that it's the same grease.
• 3:03
  Francis: I don't know.
• 3:03
  Francis: I guess I'm okay with that, I guess.
• 3:05
  Francis: No, I'm, I don't know.
• 3:06
  Francis: That's some,
• 3:07
  Mark: like, like from a, from an intellectual level, I am totally not okay with, yeah, I don't
• 3:11
  Francis: know.
• 3:11
  Mark: But they are spectacular, so there's nothing I can say bad about it.
• 3:16
  Mark: That musto relish on there fits in with the ethos, like greasy spoon, Alright, so you're gonna cook out for your, for your house, is there a specific dog you buy for your house?
• 3:25
  Mark: 'cause they're, you know, they're the Great Jersey dogs.
• 3:27
  Mark: Ruts And that place Hirums up in Fort Lee.
• 3:29
  Mark: I think it
• 3:30
  Francis: is.
• 3:30
  Francis: Yeah.
• 3:30
  Francis: Our friend Kevin brought us there.
• 3:31
  Francis: I've never been there before until recently.
• 3:33
  Francis: But there are great dog places.
• 3:34
  Francis: Right.
• 3:34
  Francis: And of course we, we have to, we can't talk about dogs without mentioning destination dogs, which is Yep.
• 3:38
  Francis: Here in town.
• 3:39
  Francis: Destination for Great Dogs.
• 3:40
  Francis: Absolutely.
• 3:40
  Francis: Kind of a different thing.
• 3:41
  Francis: Kind
• 3:41
  Mark: of a gourmet.
• 3:42
  Mark: Yeah.
• 3:42
  Mark: Not that, not the same as
• 3:44
  Francis: Great Bar.
• 3:45
  Francis: Great guys.
• 3:46
  Francis: Uh, really worth making a trip.
• 3:48
  Francis: we have lunch there.
• 3:49
  Francis: 10 times a year.
• 3:50
  Francis: Yeah.
• 3:50
  Francis: Yeah.
• 3:50
  Francis: Well see.
• 3:51
  Francis: Maybe we'll go there after this recording.
• 3:53
  Francis: This show.
• 3:53
  Francis: Um, so there's, there's a, a d dogs, we call it lovingly in town.
• 3:57
  Francis: Yep.
• 3:57
  Francis: In Jersey City, there's the worst bar.
• 3:58
  Francis: W-U-R-S-D, worst bar.
• 4:01
  Francis: Then we kinda make a living on dogs.
• 4:02
  Francis: But as far as for your house, um,
• 4:04
  Mark: it's thons you have to buy.
• 4:05
  Mark: Yeah, thons for sure is, is, uh, the, the one that I have in that white, big white package.
• 4:10
  Mark: If I'm having a cookout, that's, that's gonna be my dog.
• 4:13
  Mark: I'm gonna bring up another dog to you.
• 4:14
  Mark: And I, I assume you've had this.
• 4:17
  Mark: How about the Costco dollar 50 dog?
• 4:19
  Francis: Yep.
• 4:20
  Francis: It's good filler.
• 4:20
  Francis: It's filler.
• 4:21
  Francis: I'm, if I'm in Costco, I'm hungry.
• 4:22
  Francis: It's a, a way to taste mustard.
• 4:24
  Francis: Uh, nothing.
• 4:25
  Francis: Nothing.
• 4:26
  Mark: Uh, you know what I mean?
• 4:26
  Mark: I'm gonna say it is certainly a plus level dog.
• 4:29
  Mark: I'm gonna say in the world of hot dogs that, that you can buy, it's an.
• 4:36
  Mark: Eight plus it.
• 4:37
  Mark: Well, how do you compare it to a really good New York City dirty water dog?
• 4:41
  Mark: Better.
• 4:41
  Mark: Okay.
• 4:41
  Mark: A little bit better.
• 4:42
  Mark: I prefer it to a dirty water dog.
• 4:44
  Mark: I prefer it.
• 4:44
  Mark: We, I used to go to lunch in this place.
• 4:46
  Mark: called JJs on Franklin app that I think he's still there.
• 4:48
  Mark: I think the truck is still there.
• 4:50
  Mark: And it was fine, but, uh, again, I'd rather have a Costco dog, which is, which is weird you know, Costco, anything, I mean their pizza, sorry.
• 4:57
  Mark: Costco is some of the most disgusting food on earth.
• 5:00
  Mark: but there's something about that hotdog that I actually still enjoy.
• 5:03
  Francis: See, I don't think anything, anything special about that dog.
• 5:05
  Francis: It's a fine dog, and I've, I've eaten them.
• 5:06
  Francis: I, like I said, I give it an eat and I, I think it's, I think it's above average, but I'd rather have a dog as filler food than a, than a a fast food burger.
• 5:15
  Francis: Like I'm a big fan of Shake shacks for burgers, but that's a sit down thing.
• 5:19
  Francis: But a dog totally portable the dirty water dogs in the city.
• 5:22
  Francis: Do you know when I have most of the hot dogs I eat during the course of the year?
• 5:25
  Francis: 3:00 AM No, I'm gonna Right.
• 5:27
  Francis: No, no, no.
• 5:28
  Francis: That's pizza time, baby.
• 5:29
  Francis: no, I'm gonna surprise you.
• 5:31
  Francis: I generally have one or two hot dogs before going to some of the best wine tastings in the city.
• 5:39
  Francis: You're, no, I don't know why.
• 5:40
  Francis: So I, I get up in the morning and the wine tasting starts at 11.
• 5:44
  Francis: I haven't eaten a thing.
• 5:45
  Francis: I cannot go in and taste a hundred wines and with, and I need to put some food in my stomach so it, it, the alcohol doesn't affect me.
• 5:52
  Francis: And, you know, I get off the path train and there's a dirty water dog on the way.
• 5:56
  Francis: Can I suggest the pretzel next time?
• 5:57
  Francis: No.
• 5:58
  Francis: Pretzels won't, won't, you gotta have some protein in there.
• 6:01
  Francis: But, uh, yeah.
• 6:01
  Francis: So I, I, the dirty water dogs for breakfast on the way to wine tasting, So
• 6:05
  Mark: other things at the cook that you do at the cookout, I know I do a more cooking out.
• 6:08
  Mark: More traditional cooking out than you do.
• 6:10
  Mark: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Mark: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Mark: So my, one of the things I love to do is ribs.
• 6:15
  Mark: And basically, you know, slow roast the ribs in the oven for, for hours and then just give them that little kiss at the end on the, on the grills with some homemade barbecue
• 6:24
  Francis: sauce.
• 6:24
  Francis: I don't like, I know, I, but I, I'm, the rest of America disagrees with me.
• 6:29
  Francis: I don't like sweet sauces on my food.
• 6:30
  Francis: Yeah.
• 6:31
  Francis: And, uh, they're too messy.
• 6:32
  Francis: Eh, you that too messy.
• 6:34
  Francis: Oh, Francis, that's, I don't like it messy.
• 6:36
  Francis: I don't like it.
• 6:37
  Francis: I don't like to be messy.
• 6:39
  Francis: Don't like to be messy.
• 6:41
  Francis: And I knew you were gonna make fun of me and I told, said it anyway.
• 6:44
  Francis: Um, so ribs, you can have the ribs.
• 6:45
  Francis: Oh my goodness.
• 6:46
  Francis: I love ribs.
• 6:48
  Francis: Oh, they are in my top five foods.
• 6:51
  Francis: How long have you been friends?
• 6:52
  Francis: You, you don't think that I know that you love ribs.
• 6:55
  Francis: You're always a mess making ribs.
• 6:56
  Francis: July 4th.
• 6:57
  Francis: This July 4th, I'm making ribs.
• 6:58
  Francis: Dude.
• 6:58
  Francis: Some of the reason I don't like ribs is I look at your face after you've had ribs and your fingers and I'm like, I don't wanna be like that.
• 7:03
  Francis: That's gross.
• 7:04
  Francis: So, no, sorry I never told you before, but we gotta
• 7:07
  Mark: be honest with each other.
• 7:08
  Mark: We're friends.
• 7:08
  Mark: I, I gotta tell you, I am a, well, again, if you know this program at all, you know that I'm a messy eater.
• 7:14
  Mark: Mm-hmm.
• 7:14
  Mark: Ribs are my messiest of foods.
• 7:17
  Francis: You wanna know that.
• 7:18
  Francis: You wanna know that what you're missing here.
• 7:19
  Francis: What's that?
• 7:20
  Francis: After eating ribs, you are messy, but the bones seem to have been steam cleaned.
• 7:25
  Francis: You know, that was a, that
• 7:26
  Mark: was my dad.
• 7:27
  Mark: My
• 7:27
  Francis: dad.
• 7:28
  Francis: You're
• 7:28
  Mark: your dad.
• 7:28
  Mark: Congratulations.
• 7:29
  Mark: My dad used to be one of those guys, and this is a hundred percent true.
• 7:35
  Mark: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Mark: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Mark: I remember he was born in, right before World War II in France, no food, no meat.
• 7:40
  Mark: And we would go to Chinese restaurants.
• 7:42
  Mark: Mm-hmm.
• 7:43
  Mark: And I, and I like Chinese ribs.
• 7:44
  Mark: Okay.
• 7:45
  Mark: Yep.
• 7:45
  Mark: At the beginning of my rib story.
• 7:46
  Mark: Yeah.
• 7:47
  Mark: And he would do the thing, throw them back on my plate and go, that's you, you, you, didn't, you, he didn't do a good enough job.
• 7:53
  Mark: That rib, so that's the scar.
• 7:55
  Mark: Yeah.
• 7:55
  Mark: So now you're, now you're just poking at my scar.
• 7:57
  Mark: How's that feel?
• 7:58
  Francis: I didn't realize it was gonna bring up childhood trauma.
• 8:01
  Francis: How did World War II get involved in that?
• 8:03
  Francis: I was just said you were messy with the ribs and.
• 8:06
  Francis: dive bombers are landing in Paris.
• 8:08
  Francis: Geez.
• 8:09
  Francis: Alright.
• 8:09
  Francis: let's go back to dogs.
• 8:11
  Francis: Okay.
• 8:11
  Francis: Because with a really good dog, the quality of the bun matters.
• 8:14
  Francis: Now, ah, buns matter.
• 8:16
  Francis: Supermarket buns.
• 8:17
  Francis: Okay.
• 8:18
  Francis: You can't have too much bread to, to dog ratio.
• 8:21
  Francis: And if you have two thin dog, two dogs on the bundle, even that out, I, I can I tell you, one of
• 8:25
  Mark: my cheap coats with a hot dog,
• 8:27
  Francis: what's that
• 8:28
  Mark: is I will continuously slide the hot dog up the bun so I get like more hot dog than bun in each bite, and I'll end up with half a bun left at the end.
• 8:41
  Mark: That is so creepy.
• 8:44
  Mark: it's like a hot dog pop kind of thing.
• 8:46
  Mark: Oh, most of the time there's too much bread for the hotdog.
• 8:50
  Mark: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Mark: So you, I double up the hotdog.
• 8:52
  Mark: You, oh, I will also double up the hotdog, but in lieu of doubling hot.
• 8:55
  Mark: So basically, basically just, it's a little more hotdog sticks out, so a little more hotdog sticks out with every bite.
• 9:00
  Mark: Ingenious.
• 9:01
  Mark: I can't believe you've never noticed.
• 9:02
  Mark: Never noticed me do that.
• 9:03
  Mark: Never noticed.
• 9:03
  Mark: Then I got half a bun at the end.
• 9:05
  Mark: I could crumple up into the, into little, you get another hot dog, hot
• 9:07
  Francis: ball, get another hotdog, got another hot dog.
• 9:09
  Francis: for me, the real dogs, the really good dogs.
• 9:12
  Francis: Um, uh, chili I one chili and really good cheddar cheese, and we made one here, chef Ricky made one years ago, we were open on the 4th of July.
• 9:19
  Francis: It was a Sunday and we did a thing.
• 9:22
  Francis: A little cookout.
• 9:23
  Francis: We had a bunch of cookout foods on the menu and uh, he made a wild boar chili.
• 9:27
  Francis: Mm-hmm.
• 9:28
  Francis: Cheese dog with a three river machata from our burger.
• 9:31
  Francis: And we had the, purpose made buns.
• 9:33
  Francis: Yep.
• 9:34
  Mark: And it was, they were, they were fantastic.
• 9:36
  Mark: Phenomenal.
• 9:36
  Mark: They were fantastic.
• 9:37
  Mark: Actually, if you remember, we, we asked the guys from Destination Dogs if we could.
• 9:41
  Mark: If we could use their buns, we use their buns.
• 9:43
  Mark: That's exactly right.
• 9:44
  Francis: and the chili cheese dog can do, not do mediocre chili on the chili cheese dog.
• 9:47
  Francis: Yes.
• 9:48
  Francis: It can really be like, medioc.
• 9:49
  Francis: Don't put a can of chili and pour it on, like, like the, like the mediocre pizza is still, you know, relatively edible food.
• 9:56
  Francis: Mediocre chili cheese dog.
• 9:57
  Francis: No, absolutely not.
• 9:59
  Francis: And American cheese is not allowed
• 10:00
  Mark: on your hot dog.
• 10:01
  Mark: I, I, I don't disagree with you.
• 10:03
  Mark: Okay.
• 10:03
  Mark: There.
• 10:03
  Mark: Yeah.
• 10:03
  Mark: Uh, I want to tell you why we're funny.
• 10:07
  Mark: 'cause we're why we're truly funny'cause we have about 10 things on our list to talk about for, uh, for classic barbecue food another day.
• 10:15
  Mark: And we have completely used up all our time.
• 10:18
  Mark: And we need to get George Motz on.
• 10:19
  Francis: George Mots will be joining us in just a moment and uh, and you'll have to tune in another time to hear about all the other maybe next year, next July 4th.
• 10:28
  Francis: Alright, we'll do back in just a moment.
• 10:29
  Francis: I'm Francis shot our Mark Pascal.
• 10:32
  Francis: We don't do this right now.
• 10:33
  Francis: Do this right now.
• 10:34
  Francis: We'll, we'll be back in just a moment.
• 10:37
  Francis: You can always find out more about the restaurant guys@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
• 10:41
  Francis: Hey there everybody.
• 10:42
  Francis: Welcome back.
• 10:43
  Francis: Our guest today is George Motz.
• 10:45
  Francis: He is a burger historian, Emmy award-winning filmmaker and author who spent more than a couple of decades traveling across America, uncovering and preserving our regional hamburger traditions.
• 10:55
  Francis: His documentary Hamburger America was amazing.
• 10:58
  Francis: We had him on the show right before that launched in 2006, and now he has a restaurant called Hamburger America in New York City that you need to visit.
• 11:06
  Francis: George Motz.
• 11:06
  Francis: Welcome to the show,
• 11:08
  George: Thanks for having, having me on.
• 11:09
  George: Appreciate it.
• 11:10
  George: And by
• 11:10
  Francis: dude.
• 11:11
  George: Woo hoo.
• 11:12
  George: That was a
• 11:12
  Francis: Know, right?
• 11:13
  George: time ago.
• 11:14
  Francis: 19 years.
• 11:15
  Francis: 19 years,
• 11:16
  Mark: decades my friend.
• 11:17
  Mark: Decades.
• 11:17
  George: Wow.
• 11:18
  Francis: Okay, so let's give people an idea of who George Motz is, um, because we haven't reposted the old show as we do sometimes.
• 11:25
  Francis: but we thought we'd go right to the, to the news source.
• 11:28
  Francis: Um, you were an award winning filmmaker before you made Hamburger America.
• 11:32
  Francis: And then Hamburger America comes out the book and the movie.
• 11:35
  Francis: Well, the movie first and then the book.
• 11:36
  Francis: The right, exactly.
• 11:38
  Francis: Um, you did it backwards.
• 11:39
  Francis: Okay.
• 11:39
  Francis: And then.
• 11:41
  Francis: And then that goes on for 20 years.
• 11:42
  Francis: I see you on YouTube all the time and, and it's really wonderful to see, like during COVID I would watch you say, okay, well here's this iconic burger joint.
• 11:50
  Francis: This is why it's iconic, and this is how they do their burgers.
• 11:53
  Francis: And then you would basically make that burger and now you've turned that into an actual restaurant.
• 11:58
  Francis: I mean, how do, how do you make a career out of being the America's Burger historian?
• 12:03
  George: Well, I think the, the only real true secret to my success has been the speed at which I've done things.
• 12:10
  George: If you think you just said 2006, that's a long time.
• 12:12
  George: I mean, we're looking at, you know, I think I started working on the film in 2001.
• 12:17
  George: So at this point we're looking at 24 years from the time that I sort of accidentally made this film until today.
• 12:24
  George: Um, and so much time has passed.
• 12:26
  George: I didn't, nothing was sped up.
• 12:27
  George: Also, as you know, it was redundant reverse where I had the, the film first and then the book, and then the restaurant.
• 12:33
  George: It wasn't the other way around, but you have a restaurant and you make a cookbook and
• 12:36
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Right.
• 12:37
  George: I did it literally in reverse and I took my time, took my time.
• 12:41
  George: It is
• 12:42
  Mark: Yours,
• 12:43
  George: one of the
• 12:43
  Mark: George.
• 12:43
  Mark: Yours.
• 12:43
  George: I've learned is that if you take your time, you can literally work anything out and get anybody to believe in what you're saying.
• 12:50
  George: Just if you go too fast, it just, you just, you, everything gets screwed up.
• 12:54
  Mark: George, yours is the most well researched restaurant in America.
• 12:58
  Mark: Okay.
• 12:59
  Mark: 23 years of research till this is exactly the way I want my restaurant to be.
• 13:04
  Mark: And,
• 13:04
  Francis: and this is no joke when we say research, you know, it's funny, we're, we're.
• 13:07
  Francis: Playing a little light with it, but I mean, George researches the history.
• 13:11
  Francis: George knows what the burger was, who founded it, where it came from, and then goes there and learns how to make it.
• 13:16
  Francis: And so, you know, you're legit, man.
• 13:19
  Francis: I mean, that I, I, I don't wanna make too much light of like, oh, we're gonna copy what I just figured out, you know, in a week of looking it up.
• 13:25
  Francis: So,
• 13:26
  George: No, it's true.
• 13:26
  George: You have to, I think you have to have a lot of passion for it, but at the same time, I have to have a lot of knowledge about it.
• 13:31
  George: I
• 13:32
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: yeah.
• 13:32
  George: I tried to define expert once and expert is not someone who knows a lot of stuff.
• 13:37
  George: Um, an expert is not somebody who has a lot of passion for things.
• 13:39
  George: It's both those things together when you intersect.
• 13:42
  George: Passion and knowledge.
• 13:43
  George: You have an expert.
• 13:44
  George: And what I've been trying to do is I'm trying to become an expert in this, in the one thing I know, which is hamburgers and hamburger history.
• 13:50
  George: down to the details.
• 13:51
  George: Like we, we have a, a guest in the restaurant.
• 13:53
  George: We have a guest burger in the restaurant.
• 13:55
  George: You know, we don't just try to make the burger, we actually talk to the people who make those burgers and make them exactly the way they would serve in the restaurant so that when you come to the restaurant, my restaurant, for a short period, if it's a special on the menu.
• 14:05
  George: You're having a sense memory moment where you say, oh wow, this, it tastes like my childhood.
• 14:09
  George: This tastes exactly as I remember.
• 14:11
  George: It looks the same, it tastes the same.
• 14:13
  George: We even go so far as, say we had the swenson's galley boy on the menu, last month, and we even put the toothpick, pimento stuffed olive into the burger the same exact way they do it in Ohio.
• 14:24
  Francis: So.
• 14:24
  George: you, you go there by say, oh, it's even got the olive.
• 14:28
  Francis: Well, so let me, let me clarify for everybody what you do at the restaurant and, and we'll work backwards as to how we got there.
• 14:33
  Francis: But when you, when you go into George's restaurant as we did a couple of months ago to say hello and, and set up this interview, um, you basically walk back into 1957.
• 14:43
  Francis: You're at a lunch counter in 1957.
• 14:45
  Francis: George is behind their Macon burgers with his team, and you can get what you could have gotten at a lunch counter in 1957.
• 14:52
  Francis: And it's done really well.
• 14:54
  Francis: But, and, and I really recommend people go to this restaurant.
• 14:57
  Francis: It, the rest, the burgers are great because it really is all about the details.
• 15:00
  Francis: Oh my God.
• 15:00
  Francis: But the other thing that's really special is you ha you have like a guest burger where you pick another burger from a specific establishment that has historical precedence and you slavishly reproduce that burger four times.
• 15:15
  Francis: And I've seen on social media, sometimes you'll get the people from that establishment will come to New York.
• 15:20
  Francis: It's a, it's a, it's really cool.
• 15:22
  Francis: It's a ton of work for a burger.
• 15:24
  Francis: So tell us about this, Program and, and, and how you choose the burgers to do and like the differences you'll find in these iconic burgers.
• 15:32
  Francis: Because one of the things you can find from it is, yeah, when I go into your place in New York, having grown up in the Northeast, I see the burgers from my childhood.
• 15:40
  Francis: I.
• 15:40
  Francis: I can also go into your place and see, like you said, the burgers from somebody in Ohio's childhood.
• 15:46
  Francis: It's not my childhood, it's a different burger.
• 15:48
  Francis: Right, true, true Americana.
• 15:50
  Francis: And you contextualize the difference.
• 15:52
  Francis: And it seems like a throwaway topic, but it's not.
• 15:55
  Francis: So tell us about the different burgers you've had and, and how they differ and what people can learn from that.
• 15:59
  George: So we call it the monthly Burger special, and we'd literally do it once a month.
• 16:04
  George: It's always the first Thursday of every month, we change the burger and it becomes a new month, new burger, uh, new old burger that is, um, internally we actually call it the, uh, I didn't wanna call it this publicly.
• 16:14
  George: We internally.
• 16:16
  George: We call it the Hamburger Heroes Program
• 16:18
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Oh, I love it.
• 16:19
  George: the idea was that we are celebrating my hamburger heroes.
• 16:22
  George: So people that I have great, the greatest respect for, because they've, you know, they've, they've, they've held the torch for these, for these burgers, um, for so many years, and, and in many cases don't even really truly understand their value.
• 16:35
  George: They're just doing the thing that grandpa did, or great grandpa did.
• 16:38
  George: Or their uncle did, uh, to make sure that that thing is still around.
• 16:41
  George: 'cause they know that their customers demand it, their customers go to those restaurants, eat those burgers because it's something familiar.
• 16:47
  George: It's something continuous.
• 16:49
  George: Uh, it's something that they can, they can believe in.
• 16:51
  George: And I wanna make sure that with, if I am bringing these heroes in and I'm putting this burger on the menu, that somebody can go to my restaurant for a short period of time and have that same exact experience that they have.
• 17:01
  George: At, uh, their favorite restaurant at home, wherever, wherever it is.
• 17:04
  George: I mean, just to give you a perfect example, right now we have the loose meat sandwich from Iowa on the menu.
• 17:09
  George: And the loose meat is, is basically a deconstructed hamburger.
• 17:12
  George: It's crumbled beef that's slopped onto a bun with no slop.
• 17:15
  George: It's just, I mean, the only lop it's in, there's a little bit of beef fat, that's it.
• 17:18
  George: Some salt.
• 17:19
  George: It goes onto a, an uncosted soft bun that has.
• 17:22
  George: Uh, mustard, pickle of onion, and that's it.
• 17:24
  George: It gets wrapped up in a piece of paper.
• 17:26
  George: It kind of becomes one and it can, it does fall apart.
• 17:29
  George: So we do serve it with a spoon, but we serve it with a spoon.
• 17:31
  George: 'cause that's what they do with the counter.
• 17:32
  George: If you go to a place called Taylor's Made right in, uh, Marshalltown, Iowa, they've been doing it the same way for almost a a hundred years.
• 17:39
  George: I think they're up to a hundred.
• 17:40
  George: They're 97 years old now at this point.
• 17:43
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Wow.
• 17:44
  George: I mean, you have to have a burger.
• 17:45
  George: That's a burger.
• 17:46
  George: It's not really a burger, but if you have a burger.
• 17:47
  George: That is that old, you have to trust.
• 17:50
  George: You have to trust that, trust, that moment.
• 17:51
  George: And, uh, we, I feel so, I feel so, um, proud to be able to recreate these burgers, um, and make it, make it so that not just the customer is having the same experience, but also that the owners of these restaurants, the, the, the, the, the torch bearers, um, believe in it and, and they actually see that we've done a great thing.
• 18:11
  Mark: So one of the things I think, uh, the, the listener needs to realize, and I'm I'm gonna ask you to elaborate in just a second, is George is not going to, LA Georgia is not going to, you know, the, the big cities or Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:25
  Mark: But he's going to these to.
• 18:26
  Mark: Americana, he's going to the tiny little towns across the country.
• 18:30
  Mark: How many of these little towns do you think you visited and had burgers in?
• 18:34
  Mark: And how many years have you been doing this, this, this trek?
• 18:38
  George: So, I mean, the beginning, I, I, I focused on 10 spots for the film and, and ended up making it eight different regional burgers in America.
• 18:46
  George: And there were just great stories.
• 18:47
  George: There were great burger stories and great, uh, burger spots.
• 18:50
  George: And I wanted to make sure I was highlighting, profiling.
• 18:53
  George: But then when the movie came out and the film came out in 2004, um, it was ex, it was received very well by like a kind of a cultish group of people, uh, who were just excited of what I was doing.
• 19:04
  Francis: Well, thank you.
• 19:05
  Francis: Yep.
• 19:05
  Francis: We were, we were members of that cult.
• 19:07
  Francis: I dunno if you know this, but we had you on the radio and promoted that cult.
• 19:10
  Francis: It was, it was a fantastic film.
• 19:12
  George: you're part of the problem
• 19:13
  Francis: Yeah.
• 19:14
  George: or part of the, part of the,
• 19:15
  Francis: Part of
• 19:16
  Mark: the solution.
• 19:16
  Mark: We're not part of the solution.
• 19:17
  Francis: No, that's
• 19:18
  Mark: true.
• 19:18
  George: but I mean, from that point on, from about 2004 when the film came out, ended up on Sundays channel, it was on the PBS for a couple years, uh, they licensed it, then it started to really pick up steam and I started to do a lot more research.
• 19:29
  George: Uh, what really started when I, uh, had my first book in 2008.
• 19:34
  George: that was when the guidebook came out and I had done a lot of research and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and it went from the, from just blindly out there trying to find great burgers, to having fans come to me and say, oh, you, you, this is your type of burger.
• 19:46
  George: You're gonna love this place.
• 19:47
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: You're right.
• 19:49
  George: Also, by the way, if you remember, 2006 is kind of early in the internet.
• 19:52
  George: This no Instagram.
• 19:53
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Right.
• 19:54
  George: very low in the social media scale.
• 19:56
  George: Uh, so a lot of this stuff was done with just maps and, you know, books.
• 19:59
  George: I mean, I read Jay and Michael Stern.
• 20:00
  George: I've got a, I've got an
• 20:01
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Hello.
• 20:02
  George: a food, uh, bookshelf full of food books right here.
• 20:04
  George: And, um, I learned a lot from books.
• 20:06
  George: Back in the day, we used to read paper maps.
• 20:08
  George: We drove around the country.
• 20:10
  Francis: Ja.
• 20:10
  Francis: Jane and Michael Stern also were guests on the show.
• 20:12
  Francis: Yeah, they were great promoting your books were, they were great, but you spec, but they did like Americana Overall, you are specifically in burgers and I, so I have to say, I wanna pay you a compliment then I want to ask a, a kind of follow up question.
• 20:23
  Francis: The, the compliment I wanna pay is
• 20:25
  Mark: j George.
• 20:25
  Mark: Be careful.
• 20:26
  Mark: Whenever he pays me a, a compliment, there's a zinger that comes right after.
• 20:30
  Francis: Yeah.
• 20:30
  Francis: That's just, that's just for you though.
• 20:31
  Francis: We have to be polite to our guests.
• 20:33
  Francis: Um, the, uh, so what you are doing and, and he, I think it's really important'cause a lot of these places have been around for a hundred years or 40 years or 80 years.
• 20:42
  Francis: A lot of'em are small family owned businesses and some of the ones that you've documented aren't, aren't around anymore.
• 20:48
  George: Right.
• 20:48
  Francis: Um.
• 20:50
  Francis: You're like, I don't, I think it's important because these, these recipes are preserved, these can now be recreated.
• 20:57
  Francis: The knowledge is not lost, and often to the ether.
• 20:59
  Francis: And look, I know it's just hamburgers, you know, it's not like a, a great novel, but this is a bit of the fabric of America.
• 21:06
  Francis: I disagree with you.
• 21:07
  Francis: Hamburgers are like a
• 21:07
  Mark: great novel.
• 21:08
  Mark: Okay.
• 21:09
  Mark: You gotta read better novels.
• 21:10
  Mark: I'm sorry.
• 21:12
  Mark: The sun came up early that morning.
• 21:14
  Mark: Oh lord.
• 21:14
  Mark: And there was, there was a on the
• 21:16
  George: I, I,
• 21:17
  Mark: horizon.
• 21:18
  George: I do have a great responsibility to hamburger knowledge in this country for sure, and
• 21:21
  Mark: Yeah,
• 21:22
  George: aware of that.
• 21:22
  George: And to this, the program that we have, the Hamburger Heroes Program, the, the, uh, monthly Burger special is very important to, I, I believe the, uh, the history I.
• 21:31
  George: The culinary fabric of, of the, of the hamburger in America.
• 21:33
  George: I think it's very important, um, to the point
• 21:35
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: very much so.
• 21:36
  George: we, we had a really cool one.
• 21:37
  George: We had a, we had a, um, we brought back a burger that has not been around for 16 years.
• 21:41
  George: It was the Doodle burger from Yankee Doodle in New Haven, Connecticut.
• 21:44
  George: It's been closed for
• 21:45
  Mark: amazing.
• 21:46
  George: and no one's had the burger.
• 21:48
  George: And we had a, we had a, we have a regular comes in.
• 21:50
  George: I, and I swear literally every single day with these.
• 21:52
  George: He doesn't come on the weekend too crazy on the weekend.
• 21:54
  George: He's there five days a week.
• 21:55
  George: Comes every single day at two 30.
• 21:57
  George: And he said to me, he said, you really should try to make the doodle burger.
• 21:59
  George: I said, well, there's nobody to represent the burger because, uh, because you know, they're gone.
• 22:03
  George: They've been gone for 16 years.
• 22:04
  George: And he said, I'll do it.
• 22:05
  George: I went to Yale in the sixties.
• 22:07
  George: I remember that burger so well.
• 22:09
  George: And between his memory, my memory and my photos, we actually did this sort of, these sort of food forensics and figuring out exactly what went into this burger.
• 22:18
  George: To the point where when he had the first bite of that burger, he cried
• 22:22
  Mark: Oh, oh, that's amazing.
• 22:24
  Mark: That guy was at the bar when that guy was at the counter.
• 22:26
  Mark: When we were, when we were there.
• 22:27
  Mark: He was around the corner from us.
• 22:29
  George: Was he reading the paper?
• 22:30
  Mark: Yes.
• 22:32
  Mark: I, I love
• 22:33
  Francis: it.
• 22:33
  Francis: It's like you're the Jurassic Park of Hamburgers, you know?
• 22:37
  Francis: So I, so I have to say the um, what made the Doodle burger?
• 22:42
  Francis: The doodle burger,
• 22:43
  George: So
• 22:43
  Francis: was special about it?
• 22:44
  George: The doodle burger was made of very cheap ingredients.
• 22:47
  George: It was, he was not trying to impress anybody.
• 22:49
  George: He was just trying to get really tasty, greasy burger out there as fast as possible.
• 22:53
  George: But specifically, a doodle is a, is a thin, a very thin, small patty smashed, pressed thin, uh, cooked on a flat top and served on a toasted cheap bun, cheap white bun, white squishy bun, uh, with nothing more than white.
• 23:08
  George: American cheese, a, a slice of, uh, like a mealy tomato.
• 23:14
  George: Um, and some onions actually, he would take, he would slice onions pretty thin, and when he pressed the burger onto the flat top, he, he would press the onions into the burger, kinda like an Oklahoma onion burger, but not, not the same thing.
• 23:24
  George: It was very, very, you know, two or three strands of onions.
• 23:27
  George: Flipped over cheese on top.
• 23:29
  George: Served with, um, a little bit of a red relish on the side, which took it, that that was the hardest part part.
• 23:34
  George: The hardest part of the forensics was trying to figure out what was in that little cup.
• 23:38
  George: And went so far as to actually get the small paper ramekins and put the red relish in there.
• 23:42
  George: We figured the whole thing out and I realized if you're sitting at the counter, you and you, if you went to Yale or you're from New Haven, you did that thing that they did back in the day where you'd pick up the ramekin and just turn it upside down and squeeze it and.
• 23:56
  George: Some people would do that, and I say, oh, you must've gone to Yale.
• 23:58
  George: And I say, yeah, I went to Yale in, in the eighties, and like, yeah, I missed this burger so much.
• 24:02
  George: But if someone looked at the plate and said, what is this red stuff?
• 24:05
  George: What's it for?
• 24:05
  George: Like you, you're not from New Haven.
• 24:07
  Mark: Yeah.
• 24:07
  Mark: Yeah.
• 24:07
  Mark: You don't get it.
• 24:08
  Mark: You're a first timer,
• 24:09
  Francis: so I.
• 24:10
  George: burger.
• 24:11
  George: So it was, we right down to the de right down to the details and right down to that, that little paper in of, um, uh, of, uh, red Relish made it perfect.
• 24:20
  Francis: I encourage people to watch your YouTube channel and to read your books and, and, but to go to your place, the burgers we had at your place, we brought the, we brought our senior staff to your place.
• 24:27
  Francis: We all had burgers.
• 24:28
  Francis: Everything everybody had was loved by everyone.
• 24:31
  Francis: And we're our hard,
• 24:32
  George: you.
• 24:32
  Francis: uh, crowded please.
• 24:33
  Francis: But I have to say, I was listening to you describe the loose meat burger, uh, and I thought, well, that sounds kind of gross.
• 24:39
  Francis: And, and, and, and, and, uh,
• 24:41
  George: You're
• 24:41
  Francis: what?
• 24:41
  Francis: He's, he's so fancy.
• 24:44
  Francis: Oh, you just have no idea, George.
• 24:45
  Francis: But I'm sure if George served it, it must have been great.
• 24:48
  Francis: But some of our best foods, remember the first time we had strawberry pasta in on the upper West side and we're like strawberry pasta, that's either gonna be a train wreck or it's gonna be brilliant.
• 24:57
  Francis: And it was brilliant and we've had it on our menu for 20 years now.
• 25:00
  Francis: But, but that burger.
• 25:03
  Francis: Sounds really weird.
• 25:05
  Francis: Um, what are the, what are, what are like the best burger or two that you've come across that utilize a method of making that's not everywhere?
• 25:14
  Francis: Like what are the, what's the cool thing that you're like, oh, well, in, in Sheboygan they make a Sheboygan burger that's, you know, made in a blender.
• 25:20
  Francis: I don't know.
• 25:21
  Francis: What, what, what do you got?
• 25:22
  George: Close.
• 25:23
  George: Not in a blender, but it's made with a brat.
• 25:24
  George: That's a good one.
• 25:25
  George: That's a great one.
• 25:26
  George: I, I've come across a lot of burgers.
• 25:27
  George: Are you talking about in the restaurant with what?
• 25:29
  George: Which ones we've recreated
• 25:30
  Francis: in, in your research across America, what are the burgers that you found that were like, maybe, uh, you wouldn't think that a burger would be made that way, and you're like, oh, this is a national treasure that people don't know about.
• 25:40
  George: many.
• 25:40
  George: I wouldn't even know where to begin.
• 25:41
  George: I mean, some of the obvious ones would be we, and we did bring it to the restaurant, was Ted's steamed cheeseburger.
• 25:46
  George: Uh, the steamed cheeseburger is a very unique burger'cause it's not cooked any sort of mayard reaction.
• 25:51
  George: The beef is, you know, the beef is literally steamed in this, in a case, uh, in this metal looks like a filing cabinet.
• 25:58
  George: Um, and we actually brought in, we brought in, um, we borrowed one of the steaming cabinets from Ted's and Merit in Connecticut and made and made them for, for a month on, on, uh, at my restaurant.
• 26:09
  George: And it kind of made people crazy.
• 26:11
  George: cooks were, it was I completely the opposite of any way you'd make a burger.
• 26:15
  George: And it took them a while, um, uh, to get up to speed on that one.
• 26:19
  George: And it was very, very frustrating at first, but we, we figured it out.
• 26:21
  George: We had a lot of fans.
• 26:22
  George: It was, it was a very, it was a, you know, very, uh, it was a mild curiosity, I think, to this burger,
• 26:28
  Mark: So you're saying maybe don't go the first day of the new monthly burger.
• 26:32
  Mark: Maybe wait two or three days and then.
• 26:34
  George: Hey, that's not true.
• 26:35
  George: We actually, we work it out.
• 26:36
  George: We do it.
• 26:36
  George: I mean, that was the only one we had a, the, the learning curve was a little bit steep, but for the most part, we test this burger three times before we go live.
• 26:43
  George: And when I say live, we have that person come in, the, my hamburger hero comes in for the, for the actual launch, for a press conference the day before we launch it.
• 26:51
  George: And they work with us to make sure we've got all the details right.
• 26:54
  George: Uh, the perfect example is we had the, we brought in Glen Ber from SO'S in, um, in Milwaukee, and we, you know, they cut the burger in half.
• 27:01
  George: That's what, that's what they do.
• 27:02
  George: We we're gonna do
• 27:03
  Francis: Is that the butter burger place's?
• 27:04
  George: The butter biscuit, the home
• 27:05
  Francis: Yeah.
• 27:06
  George: burger, right?
• 27:06
  George: And we just served it with his stewed onions, which is nothing more than just literally onion stewed and butter and water.
• 27:11
  George: Um, and a little bit of salt.
• 27:12
  George: I think that's it.
• 27:13
  George: Um, and then, uh, a big, big dollop, uh, two or three tablespoon dollop of soft Wisconsin butter.
• 27:19
  George: So we had all the details there, ready to go.
• 27:21
  George: Made the burger.
• 27:22
  George: And, uh, we, you know, we were doing it our way.
• 27:24
  George: We're just cutting it in half and then picking up the pieces and putting them on the plate, and he says, what are you doing?
• 27:28
  George: I said, well, I, we had to get on the plate somehow.
• 27:29
  George: He said, no, watch this.
• 27:30
  George: And he puts the burger, he puts the plate underneath the cutting board and slides and drops the burger onto the plate.
• 29:03
  George: So he didn't make
• 29:04
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Oh,
• 29:05
  George: So,
• 29:05
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: oh.
• 29:06
  George: those little details, we need those details from my hamburger heroes, otherwise we're not gonna get it.
• 29:11
  George: Right.
• 29:11
  Francis: And you brought in the, the cardiac panels for that one as well, like for the, if they needed a, we needed a jump.
• 29:16
  Mark: You were ready?
• 29:17
  Mark: we're gonna come back on the other side and we're gonna talk about the details of your burger.
• 29:21
  Mark: And we're gonna, we're also gonna talk a little bit about another burger that we really love that, we think needs to be on your
• 29:27
  Francis: list.
• 29:28
  Francis: We'll be back in just a moment with our, uh, hamburger Hero, George Motz.
• 29:30
  Francis: don't go away.
• 29:34
  Francis: Hey everybody, welcome back.
• 29:34
  Francis: And for those of you who can see us on, uh,, video, we have a couple of burgers in front of us.
• 29:39
  Francis: And we didn't warn George so he doesn't have one in front of him.
• 29:42
  Francis: I feel rude,
• 29:43
  George: A
• 29:43
  Francis: but,
• 29:43
  George: of water.
• 29:44
  Francis: but 21, 21 years been trying to get George Moats to come to New Brunswick and have one of these burgers.
• 29:49
  Francis: So we've, we resorted to this.
• 29:51
  Francis: So
• 29:51
  Mark: now we're gonna tease them.
• 29:53
  Mark: Alright.
• 29:54
  Mark: First rule, our burger needs two napkins.
• 29:56
  Mark: All right.
• 29:57
  Mark: One for the lap.
• 29:59
  Mark: One for the nick.
• 30:00
  Mark: Okay, because I gotta work tonight.
• 30:02
  Francis: I don't know.
• 30:03
  Francis: Does this look, does this look good to you?
• 30:04
  Francis: If you can see in listener land, that's,
• 30:06
  George: Nice.
• 30:06
  George: Whoa,
• 30:07
  Mark: it's like gu
• 30:08
  George: burger.
• 30:08
  Mark: a gule on our burger.
• 30:10
  Mark: Little, little bit of Chipotle mayo here.
• 30:12
  Mark: Yeah, so, so, uh, Francis has a gu Charlie burger.
• 30:16
  Mark: I have an Amish bacon burger, little Chipotle mayo.
• 30:19
  Mark: I am not afraid to make.
• 30:21
  Mark: Make the ketchup mayo blend on top.
• 30:24
  Mark: Nice.
• 30:24
  Mark: That's definitely, we have, uh, lettuce and tomato that I'm would normally use, but I'm not gonna use'cause it's messy and I'm gonna try not to spill on me this trip.
• 30:33
  Francis: Okay.
• 30:33
  Francis: So George, in your travels across American and your, your research has historically in the burgers, are there burgers that you never got to, that you've read about, that you were like, ah, I wish I before that place went outta business in 1957, I, I could have gotten there.
• 30:48
  Francis: What are the great lost burgers of.
• 30:50
  George: I mean there, there are, sadly, there's a lot of burger places that have closed over the years.
• 30:54
  George: I've made it to a bunch of them.
• 30:56
  George: I'm trying to think if I have this one.
• 30:57
  George: I haven't been to, not really.
• 31:00
  George: I mean, I think, I feel like the, you go back, way back.
• 31:03
  George: I mean, go back.
• 31:03
  George: I wish I had gone to Lionel Sternberg's, uh, spot called the right spot in Pasadena, where apparently the nice look, that looks good.
• 31:12
  George: I wish I'd gone to Lionel Sternberg's, uh, the right spot, which is in Pasadena.
• 31:17
  George: Where apparently the cheeseburger was invented, I would've loved to go there.
• 31:19
  George: That would've been amazing.
• 31:20
  George: But that, of course, went outta business many years ago.
• 31:23
  Mark: I thought the cheeseburger was made at that place where the, where the burgers are cooked sideways.
• 31:28
  Mark: Louis's lunch.
• 31:28
  George: No, there's actually no cheese in that burger unless you, if
• 31:31
  Mark: Ah,
• 31:31
  George: cheese.
• 31:32
  Mark: cheeseburger versus Hamburger
• 31:34
  George: Yeah.
• 31:34
  George: So that was hamburger.
• 31:36
  Mark: Hamburg.
• 31:37
  George: So the first hamburger, we don't know.
• 31:39
  George: The history is very, very nebulous.
• 31:41
  George: Um, I, we do know that it happened well before Louis's lunch.
• 31:46
  George: Uh, we have, we have actual printed proof.
• 31:47
  George: We have, um, uh, I, I have, I have on my wall in the restaurant, the earliest known mention of hamburger in print.
• 31:54
  George: Um, and it was the nine, I think in 1893 in, in Reno, Nevada, uh, mentioned in, in an ad for a bar.
• 32:01
  George: so
• 32:02
  Mark: George.
• 32:03
  George: of, that unfortunately is not great for Louis's lunch having that claim though.
• 32:06
  George: Louis's Lunch is the oldest continually operating hamburger restaurant in America.
• 32:09
  George: They've been open for, well now a hundred and 125 years.
• 32:13
  Mark: Just so you know, you are the foremost expert in hamburgers in America, so you get to just decide what the first burger place was
• 32:21
  George: I wish, but
• 32:22
  Mark: at.
• 32:22
  George: like to keep it, keep it open and I keep hearing and every, it's amazing how every once in a while someone will send me a new news clip.
• 32:28
  George: In fact, we actually had one on the wall when we first opened up.
• 32:31
  George: That was 1894.
• 32:33
  George: And, uh, somebody sent me a, a clip they found from 1893 and we go back a few months.
• 32:37
  George: Uh, and, and I now, I had to take off the wall and replace it with this, this is the oldest mention of hamburger and print it, it, who knows what's gonna happen next.
• 32:44
  George: I do believe that it was invented, sort of at the same time.
• 32:47
  George: Who knows where?
• 32:48
  George: Uh, likely at a state fair, uh, on a bunch of state fairs in the Midwest.
• 32:52
  George: Uh, it was, it was actually, it was ethnic German food that came from Germany, uh, in the 18, 1880s, uh, and 1870s, 1880s.
• 33:00
  George: And it was eaten with a knife on a fork.
• 33:01
  George: There was no bun.
• 33:02
  George: It was the Americans, uh, who put the, were the first to put it on a bun.
• 33:05
  George: And I also believe it was because of the hot dog.
• 33:08
  George: Um, if you're serving food at a fair, you don't wanna eat with a knife and a fork.
• 33:11
  George: Can you imagine the guy with a knife and a fork, sees a hot dog walk by, and like, why can't we put the Hamburg steak on a piece of bread?
• 33:19
  George: that's how it was actually invented, but it probably happened at the same time over a course of, you know, summers at state fairs.
• 33:25
  Francis: It is funny.
• 33:25
  Francis: We play this game with, um, j
• 33:28
  Mark: excuse Francis' full mouth, but he's, but he is literally eating a burger on while we, while we go.
• 33:33
  Mark: It, it's, it's part of the show now, mark, because the burgers with your idea, um, make the listeners will be coming, make a reserv.
• 33:38
  Mark: Dinner stage left tonight.
• 33:39
  Mark: It's, uh, stage left.com.
• 33:41
  Mark: Um, so, um, no, we, we play this game with, uh, the co, the word cocktail and you talk to David wdr and Dale DeGraff and the research of like, oh, this was the earliest mention of the cocktail, oh, wait a second.
• 33:51
  Mark: That was the earliest mention of the cocktail, but we don't know quite where that comes from as well.
• 33:54
  Mark: It's fun to, it's fun to keep exploring the history.
• 33:58
  Mark: But we talk about old things.
• 33:59
  Mark: One of the things we talked about on our show a while ago, which was 20 years ago, was that the place, the places that use old grease, that you, that just continually replace the grease in, in an ever ending cycle.
• 34:12
  Mark: Can you tell people about that?
• 34:13
  Mark: I think that's horrifying and wonderful.
• 34:14
  Mark: I.
• 34:15
  George: No, it's wonderful.
• 34:15
  George: I mean, it's actually, it's uh, it's, I mean, it's always clean.
• 34:19
  George: I mean, I think the, of grease, uh, is, uh, probably due to, you know, just they have to keep it fresh, obviously.
• 34:26
  George: But, you know, there's some DNA in there somewhere, uh, in all these places of the original time that they use that, that cooking device, whatever it is.
• 34:35
  George: I mean, you've got a lot, I mean, you've got Dyers in Memphis that would actually cook in Greece.
• 34:39
  George: They cook in, uh, in, in beef tallow.
• 34:41
  George: Um, you've got, um, the, the, the, uh, the hamburger wagon in Miamisburg, Ohio.
• 34:47
  George: Same thing.
• 34:47
  George: They cook in, in a big skillet, full, full of grease.
• 34:50
  Francis: And they don't change the grease, they just add new grease and filter it and just keep going.
• 34:54
  George: good question.
• 34:55
  George: I don't know how they, what they do, but they definitely, you, there's no way to get rid of it all.
• 34:58
  George: They wanna use the same over and over again.
• 34:59
  George: They probably change it.
• 35:00
  George: If it's not looking good, it smells weird.
• 35:02
  George: Um, but a lot of these guys, they don't, they, they keep exactly the way it is.
• 35:05
  George: I mean, you've got, um, there's so many, I mean, um.
• 35:08
  George: in Ohio is a place called now.
• 35:10
  George: Now you're testing me here.
• 35:13
  George: Uh, it's in Urbana Urbana, Ohio.
• 35:15
  George: And they've been doing, again, the same thing.
• 35:17
  George: They've been, they've been, they cook in a tank.
• 35:19
  George: Um, I'm a lot of places, uh, another place in Ohio, a lot of places in Ohio, cook, cook in Greece.
• 35:23
  George: Um, so another place in Troy, Ohio, same thing, cooks in a small tank.
• 35:27
  George: Uh, but I mean, something to be said for that.
• 35:29
  George: I mean, it's like, you know, it's, it's, if I think if you keep it at the right temperature, it's okay.
• 35:33
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Mm-hmm.
• 35:34
  Mark: All right, so people who are looking at our burgers are o obviously know that it's a very different thing than the, than the burger you make.
• 35:41
  Mark: Uh, talk to us about your burger and how you make your burger, and what makes that.
• 35:49
  Mark: Hamburger America's Burger that different from the other places that are making a smash
• 35:54
  Francis: burger.
• 35:54
  Francis: Ours is a, for those of you aren't follow, don't look at our Instagram, whatever.
• 35:57
  Francis: It's ours.
• 35:57
  Francis: Burger is a very thick burger.
• 35:58
  Francis: It's quite, it's, you know, it's a, it's a thick restaurant burger.
• 36:01
  Francis: It takes you 25 minutes to get it, you know, but it's a very different thing than a lot of the burgers that you talk about.
• 36:07
  Francis: Can you talk about the two different styles of burgers?
• 36:09
  George: Yeah, so you, your burger looks substantial, which is great.
• 36:11
  George: That's a very, that's a very, I mean, there are many different types of burgers out there.
• 36:15
  George: Um, we ha we sat down, I sat down with some friends of mine who are restaurant people, um, to try to figure out how to, uh, what was, what would be the, the right way to make this restaurant happen?
• 36:24
  George: What would represent me well, what would sell well?
• 36:27
  George: Uh, and we, we weighed all the options and came up with the burgers that you, the two burgers you've seen on the menu, which are classic smashburger.
• 36:34
  George: And, uh, the Oklahoma Fra Onion Burger, which we call just the, the Onion Burger, uh, George Moses' Frat Onion Burger.
• 36:40
  George: Um, because it's not exactly like a fried onion burger.
• 36:42
  George: It's a little bit different, a little, little deeper.
• 36:44
  George: Maybe we go a little further than Oklahoma does.
• 36:46
  George: Uh, but the idea is they're simple burgers with very simple ingredients, and we wanted to make sure that we could cook for speed.
• 36:52
  George: Uh, we, we get this in history.
• 36:54
  George: The best, the best burgers were the ones that were cooked very quickly back in the day and turn of the century.
• 37:00
  George: The burgers that were, that you could serve more people to.
• 37:03
  George: Were the ones that were gonna be the most successful.
• 37:05
  George: And then you get to White Castle in the 1920s, and it was literally all about speed.
• 37:08
  George: Sliders were tiny.
• 37:10
  George: They could cook fast, and you could serve thousands and thousands a day, and that's where we wanted to be.
• 37:15
  George: I wanted to be in a be in the position where we could sell a lot of burgers, but we could also, um, honor, history, and, uh, to do that, it was going to be a smaller, quick, quick cooking burger.
• 37:24
  George: Now the onion burger is not cooked so quickly.
• 37:25
  George: The Onion burger actually takes between six and a half to eight minutes to cook.
• 37:29
  George: It's not
• 37:29
  Mark: That's a long time.
• 37:30
  Mark: That's a very long
• 37:31
  George: So we have, we have them going, you know, they're, we have a, we have a back line.
• 37:34
  George: It's full of burgers and it's cooking, and they're, they're coming off quickly because we're, we're anticipating what's, what the orders that are coming in.
• 37:40
  George: Um, but a lot of times if you're at the, if you're at the front counter and you're sitting at the counter and we're cooking for you, the minute you order a burger, that's when it goes on.
• 37:47
  George: You're not, no one's waiting.
• 37:48
  George: You're not waiting for a burger except for those eight minutes.
• 37:51
  George: Um,
• 37:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah.
• 37:51
  George: we make is a classic.
• 37:52
  George: It's only has a few ingredients on it.
• 37:54
  George: It's literally just, it's just beef.
• 37:56
  George: Cheese and a bun, and that's it.
• 37:57
  George: A toasted bun.
• 37:59
  George: Uh, you can add to it and you get, get it all the way, which is where it comes with, um, diced onion, mustard pickle, which to me, I call it, I, I refer to that as sort of the um, uh, the Midwestern trilogy for toppings.
• 38:10
  George: That really is, that creates a flavor profile, uh, with the beef and the butter on the bun.
• 38:14
  George: That is.
• 38:15
  George: Very, very Midwestern and very, to me, very classic.
• 38:17
  George: Goes back a hundred years.
• 38:18
  George: I mean, that's a flavor that is very, um, understandable to a lot of people in America that know they have the burger they remember is that's what it tastes like
• 38:27
  Francis: Well, it strikes me that most of the classic burgers and the historical burgers in America are thinner burgers that you can cook rather quickly.
• 38:34
  Francis: But the the, you know, our burger fits in a genre of burger, which is like the steakhouse burger.
• 38:38
  Francis: You know what I mean?
• 38:39
  Francis: The burger that takes 20 minutes to cook, it's thick.
• 38:41
  Francis: It's a meal in and of itself.
• 38:43
  Francis: You would never get two of them.
• 38:45
  Francis: You couldn't have two.
• 38:45
  Francis: That's for sure.
• 38:46
  Francis: When did that sort of come about?
• 38:47
  Francis: Or were there any old burgers that were made that way?
• 38:49
  Francis: Because I think they were, there, were started, there were other places that make them, there are other places that make them in this style.
• 38:55
  Francis: So we've been making Arch for 32 years now.
• 38:57
  Francis: Um, but there were other Burg burgers in this style back then and still now.
• 39:01
  Francis: When did, when did, when did that style of Burger come about?
• 39:04
  George: So I believe it had started with steakhouses, especially in New York and big cities, uh, probably Chicago, uh, with where burgers were.
• 39:10
  George: Um, you could take, uh, steak cuts.
• 39:13
  George: And, um, this idea of smashing a burger was actually seen as sort of wage earner, you know, blue collar burger.
• 39:19
  George: It was seen as something you did quickly just'cause you're, you know, may feed the crew at the restaurant that, but you wouldn't necess necessarily serve a customer of that.
• 39:25
  George: But, and if you're taking steak cuts and you're grinding'em into, uh, grinding them and making a patty out of it, you're probably gonna make a thick patty.
• 39:31
  George: So, mean, good question.
• 39:33
  George: I mean, it's, uh, between steakhouses and New York City pubs, probably back in the forties, thirties and forties, there were times whenever they would make a, a.
• 39:41
  George: You know, a hand pattied, thick patty burger, throw it on a flat top or in a pan and serve it to someone at a bar just to keep them drinking.
• 39:48
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah.
• 39:48
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah.
• 39:48
  George: You know, that was the idea.
• 39:49
  George: I was like, they're gonna leave and go get food.
• 39:51
  George: Why don't we just feed'em here?
• 39:52
  George: You know?
• 39:52
  George: That was the idea.
• 39:53
  George: So that's why a lot of bar, a lot of bars in America have, have small griddles next to the next, to the,
• 39:58
  Francis: Just to keep you from leaving.
• 40:00
  George: Exactly.
• 40:00
  George: And in fact, by, by the way, back in the day, those burgers were free.
• 40:03
  George: I mean, they would, they would hand out free burgers just to keep people drinking.
• 40:07
  Francis: That's amazing.
• 40:08
  Francis: You know, it's funny, we, we harken back to that when we were looking at our bar.
• 40:11
  Francis: So again, we hear 30 years.
• 40:13
  Francis: Our, our bar is a hundred years old in, in the first restaurant.
• 40:17
  Francis: And we were looking at, okay, let's, and we're bringing back cocktails.
• 40:19
  Francis: We're we're the oldest continuously operated craft cocktail program in America at stage.
• 40:24
  Francis: Yeah.
• 40:24
  Francis: Pretty amazing.
• 40:25
  Francis: Right?
• 40:25
  Francis: So, um, but we're like, all right, we're looking into retro bar stuff.
• 40:29
  Francis: We're very into that kind of stuff ourselves.
• 40:31
  Francis: And um, we are.
• 40:33
  Francis: Chef back then, and now they're great at pickling things.
• 40:37
  Francis: And we said, let's, we did some pickled eggs, some hard-boiled, beautiful pickled eggs that we leave on a jar on the bar that you could see it and you know, you can leave it at room temperature and just pick'em out.
• 40:47
  Francis: And we were like, we have to stop that immediately because what they would, because you can't, like, you either give'em away or you charge a couple of bucks.
• 40:54
  Francis: You can't charge people for a pickled egg very much.
• 40:57
  Francis: But what you may, or you probably realize is.
• 40:59
  Francis: One hard boiled egg.
• 41:01
  Francis: You're full.
• 41:01
  Francis: You're not ordering more food, you're taking a, so yeah, we
• 41:05
  Mark: didn't want
• 41:05
  Francis: you to do that.
• 41:06
  Francis: That's where the pickled eggs and the beef jerky used to come in as well.
• 41:08
  Francis: Burger, you know.
• 41:09
  George: Yeah.
• 41:09
  George: Bar food.
• 41:10
  George: Literally the stuff that sat on the bar.
• 41:12
  George: Uh, just keep people drinking.
• 41:13
  Mark: I wanna talk about some of the other details you have in your place.
• 41:16
  Mark: And I, I really interesting, and again, a lot of Americana there.
• 41:21
  Mark: You know, you create a patty melt, you create a grilled cheese, you serve yuhu like, like you would've gotten way back when, except the yuhu now has corn syrup instead of sugar.
• 41:30
  Mark: We can, that's a, for another day.
• 41:31
  Mark: Uh, you serve egg creams and chocolate egg creams and, and true, you know, the things you would've found in a place like that in the, in the forties and fifties and I, you really hit a lot of the details.
• 41:43
  George: Thank you.
• 41:44
  George: Thanks very much.
• 41:44
  George: I mean, also there's a detail that you probably didn't notice
• 41:47
  Mark: All right.
• 41:47
  George: easy to see the u who it taste, the U who it's easy to see the photos in the wall, but we're sort of like a performance art in a way.
• 41:53
  George: Um, what's happening is you, you're in there and you're smelling a little bit, not too much.
• 41:58
  George: 'cause a lot of the, thank God, most of the smell goes out and people smell it down the street before you
• 42:02
  Francis: Yeah, we saw that when we were approaching.
• 42:03
  Francis: We're like, oh, we're close.
• 42:05
  Francis: We're close.
• 42:06
  Francis: Tremendous.
• 42:07
  George: You can smell it.
• 42:08
  George: Uh,'cause you smell it blocks away, which is great'cause it goes four stories up and then shoots down the street.
• 42:12
  George: So,
• 42:13
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah.
• 42:13
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Nice.
• 42:14
  George: but, um, just it's a bit of performance art.
• 42:16
  George: You're not catching.
• 42:18
  George: Necessarily because we, we made sure that the bus tub, for example, is near, it's in the dining area, and whenever we put, it's also on the ground, it's low.
• 42:26
  George: And whenever you, you have a spoon or a, um, a plate or something, it gets thrown into the bus top.
• 42:31
  George: It goes clang, cl clang, cl cl.
• 42:33
  George: And that, uh, that is part of the performance.
• 42:35
  George: That's part of that sends you in that, that place is music's playing low or maybe it's not, I don't know, depending on what it is, but what I feel like hearing, uh,
• 42:43
  Francis: And the oral.
• 42:44
  George: rock on all day yesterday.
• 42:46
  Francis: And the oral landscape includes the clinking of plates and stuff.
• 42:49
  George: It's true.
• 42:50
  George: It really is.
• 42:50
  George: And we, we talked about having plastic spoons at the counter.
• 42:52
  George: I said, no, no, no.
• 42:53
  George: I wanna have real spoons.
• 42:54
  George: But I also did, by the way, I didn't wanna have.
• 42:57
  George: spoon that was like a, like a, you know, a fancy spoon.
• 43:00
  George: We had somebody went, I said, I sent someone out to the store to get some spoons before us to open.
• 43:03
  George: They came back with these really heavy, like maybe stuff that you might serve in your restaurant, which you would need to, if you served a, something in your restaurant with a cheap, you know, bendable fork.
• 43:11
  George: You'd be like, people would be like, what is going on here?
• 43:13
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Right,
• 43:14
  George: we're the opposite, we have to have a cheap fork.
• 43:16
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: right.
• 43:17
  George: don't think you would, you would believe what you're getting if it was a fancy fork.
• 43:21
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Right, right.
• 43:21
  George: the cheap napkins that come outta the dispensary.
• 43:23
  George: People complain about the napkins all the time.
• 43:25
  George: It was like.
• 43:25
  George: Excellent.
• 43:29
  Francis: You,
• 43:29
  George: You should have
• 43:29
  Francis: you figured it out.
• 43:30
  Francis: That's great.
• 43:31
  Francis: George George's motto is, the customer is sometimes right.
• 43:35
  Francis: That's the, that's the,
• 43:36
  George: customer's happy.
• 43:37
  George: It's, we,
• 43:37
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: yeah,
• 43:38
  George: customer, not
• 43:39
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: yeah,
• 43:39
  George: customer,
• 43:40
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: yeah.
• 43:41
  George: we're, we're doing, technically, it's kind of gutsy if you think about it.
• 43:43
  George: You know,
• 43:43
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: It is.
• 43:45
  George: get everyone to dial back and think differently and think, when people walk in and say, why can't I get lettuce and tomato?
• 43:50
  George: It's like.
• 43:51
  George: we don't do that.
• 43:52
  George: It's like, why?
• 43:53
  George: Somebody said, why don't you have a veggie burger?
• 43:54
  George: I said, do you walk into a vegetarian restaurant and ask for beef?
• 43:58
  George: I mean, no, you don't.
• 43:59
  Mark: Yeah.
• 44:00
  George: Why?
• 44:01
  Mark: And realize that if you, if I had a vegetarian burger, I'd be cooking it on this griddle With this grease?
• 44:06
  Mark: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:07
  Mark: So it would longer be a vegetarian, vegetarian.
• 44:10
  George: Oh, best ever.
• 44:12
  Francis: So I have, I have to say now you have, you have two kitchens in your small restaurant.
• 44:17
  Francis: One is is for the counter and the other is for takeout.
• 44:20
  Francis: Right?
• 44:20
  Francis: Well, two lines.
• 44:21
  Francis: Well, no, two kitchens, aren't they?
• 44:23
  George: Well, there's two lines.
• 44:24
  George: Two
• 44:24
  Francis: Oh, two lines in the kitchen.
• 44:25
  Francis: That's, I I thought you meant lines.
• 44:27
  Francis: Market thought you meant lines of people.
• 44:28
  Francis: But you mean behind the lines of two, two lines.
• 44:30
  Francis: Lines is the same kitchen, but there's
• 44:32
  Mark: two lines you're cooking for for different areas.
• 44:34
  George: it's a pretty unique setup'cause we're basically two restaurants in one.
• 44:37
  George: You walk in and you can have the counter experience, which means you sit literally in front of me, whoever's cooking at the front griddle, what we call the show griddle.
• 44:45
  George: the joke in the restaurant, the crew calls it the vacation griddle.
• 44:49
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Because it's so much less volume.
• 44:50
  George: yeah.
• 44:51
  George: 'cause
• 44:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah.
• 44:52
  George: just, you're making everything on the menu, but you're only
• 44:54
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Right.
• 44:54
  George: it, you know, two at a time, five at a time.
• 44:56
  George: It's not high pro, it's not high speed at all.
• 44:58
  George: In the back.
• 45:00
  George: We, it's, it's, it's crazy back there.
• 45:02
  George: The thunderdome back there where you're actually, you are, you know, they're, they've got, you know, 60 burgers and one griddle, not 60, maybe 40, I guess it's a lot of burgers and, um, but they're constantly cranking up burgers because those two back griddles supply, uh, orders to go and to eat in the dining room in the back.
• 45:18
  Francis: And, and it's part of the performance is to watch them going like crazy.
• 45:22
  Francis: But I have to say, one of the things that Mark and I, we went to the restaurant, we did not expect to see you behind the counter making burgers and, uh, you were behind the counter.
• 45:30
  Francis: You're an awesome host.
• 45:31
  Francis: I.
• 45:32
  Francis: A lot of people didn't know that you owned the place.
• 45:34
  Francis: we went specifically to try your place and then we saw you there and it was great.
• 45:38
  Francis: Um, but the other thing I have to say, there's a lot of joy in that place.
• 45:41
  Francis: You and everybody else used to be having a lot of fun and that was great.
• 45:45
  George: game.
• 45:46
  Mark: You waited 20, you, you waited 25 years to have the perfect job for you.
• 45:50
  George: that's right.
• 45:51
  George: Put me in Coach.
• 45:51
  George: I'm ready.
• 45:52
  George: Put me in.
• 45:53
  George: I just wanna make sure there's a happy place.
• 45:55
  George: I mean, this is, it's been, it wasn't too difficult to, um, to explain to my business partners, uh, which is the sch snippers, by the way.
• 46:02
  George: Uh, you know, sch snippers restaurants in Manhattan.
• 46:04
  George: I chose the perfect two guys to help me run this thing with another friend of mine who's also the, the money guy behind this, uh, was helping us organize the, the, the financials for this.
• 46:13
  George: But the four of us together make a pretty, pretty powerful team.
• 46:15
  George: And it's because they, they already have experience in the business, in this business.
• 46:18
  George: You know, they, and one of the things they did, which is I thought was great, was they trusted me.
• 46:22
  George: They trusted me with the menu, they trusted me with the concept, trusted me with the Burger, monthly Burger special.
• 46:27
  George: And they trusted me to, to, to sort of have to, they, they had as much guts as we po possibly could have.
• 46:33
  George: To make people believe that.
• 46:34
  George: And one thing was to make sure we had a happy work environment.
• 46:37
  George: we have no zero tolerance people, anybody who's having a bad time at work, if you have a, if you have something wrong, which just happens at work, we tell people, just go around the corner, you know, scream in the back hall, don't do it
• 46:47
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Mm-hmm.
• 46:48
  Mark: Mm-hmm.
• 46:48
  Mark: If you want a joyful place, you have to have joyful people working there.
• 46:52
  Mark: Yep.
• 46:52
  Mark: That's, I mean, that's just as.
• 46:53
  George: with their, they're, they're, I mean, they're, we pay them well, we pay, we're paid well, and they, they want to come to work every day.
• 46:58
  George: It's this, it's really a great feeling.
• 47:00
  George: I wanna go to work every day too, by the way.
• 47:01
  George: I would never wanna go to a place where people were in a bad mood all the time.
• 47:03
  George: It'll be the worst.
• 47:05
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yep,
• 47:05
  George: there.
• 47:05
  George: I cook every single day.
• 47:06
  George: I cook.
• 47:07
  George: If I'm there, I'm cooking.
• 47:08
  George: I cook for about a half an hour to an hour and a half, depending on what's going on.
• 47:12
  George: Uh, I love being on the line.
• 47:13
  George: I love it so much.
• 47:14
  George: I'll jump in just because I, I love that feeling.
• 47:16
  George: It's so much fun to, to work with somebody.
• 47:19
  George: Also, I think they think the crew likes to see me work.
• 47:22
  George: They like to see that I, I want to get in there and do stuff.
• 47:25
  George: And they also themselves want to learn.
• 47:27
  George: I can feel them watching me cook and um, and they're really, really paying attention.
• 47:32
  George: 'cause in their mind, they just wanna get it right.
• 47:34
  the-restaurant-guys_1_05-01-2025_120147: Yeah,
• 47:34
  George: it their way.
• 47:35
  George: They wanna do it the way that is the right way.
• 47:37
  George: And, and they have so much fun doing it.
• 47:39
  George: And then also whenever we change the burger every month, you know, my first thought was, oh, these guys are, they're gonna hate me.
• 47:44
  George: They're gonna hate me.
• 47:45
  George: We're gonna, the constant change.
• 47:46
  George: And they actually like the change.
• 47:48
  George: They
• 47:49
  Francis: sure.
• 47:49
  George: we change burgers.
• 47:51
  Francis: Well, it's a place that's the same all the time.
• 47:53
  Francis: Yet you, yet you bring in new things and change things.
• 47:56
  Francis: I, I just have to say that the, the environment in the restaurant, when you walk in, it's, it is a, it's a joyful, happy place, and you feel like you're walking into 1957 and to see you behind the counter is a real treat.
• 48:07
  Francis: So I, I'm not here to plug your restaurant, but I wanna plug your restaurant.
• 48:10
  Francis: People should go to Hamburger America.
• 48:12
  Francis: It's great.
• 48:13
  Francis: Great time.
• 48:13
  George: you.
• 48:14
  George: Just Don't come on a Saturday people.
• 48:16
  George: That's like a, it's like a goat rodeo in there.
• 48:18
  George: It's, it's, it's, it's, we're we, we make burgers so quickly, but on Saturday it's always crowded.
• 48:24
  Mark: Amazing.
• 48:25
  Mark: George, thank you for being with us today.
• 48:27
  Mark: You know, we really enjoyed, going down this road with you.
• 48:29
  Mark: This, this, this old country road that took us to to family fun restaurants an Americana.
• 48:36
  Mark: Thank you very much.
• 48:37
  Francis: Great time.
• 48:38
  George: great.
• 48:38
  George: Great to see you guys after all these years.
• 48:40
  Francis: Yeah, wild man.
• 48:41
  Francis: We'll see you in New Brunswick real soon.
• 48:42
  George: Yes, definitely.
• 48:43
  George: I'll see.
• 48:44
  George: I'll definitely, I'm coming out.
• 48:45
  Francis: You can find out more about George Mo at, uh, the show notes in our show, and we'll get you to his restaurant and his books and his documentary and follow him on YouTube.
• 48:52
  Francis: If you wanna learn something about burgers, we'll be back in just a moment.
• 48:54
  Francis: You're listening to the restaurant guys, talk to in a moment.
• 49:24
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Well, it's a first, another restaurant first.
• 49:26
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We actually ate a burger on, on the podcast.
• 49:30
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So you, how was, I just wanna say that was your idea.
• 49:32
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Want everyone to know it was a darn good idea.
• 49:33
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Great idea.
• 49:34
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So, George's counter, I wanna talk about that.
• 49:36
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: It's, it's whatever, nine 11 seats, something like that.
• 49:39
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Uhhuh.
• 49:39
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But because you're only there for 15, 20 minutes at a, at a click, um.
• 49:44
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So we went in with, with our senior staff, we made them sit in the back, in the dining room, right?
• 49:48
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: There were only two seats on the counter and Francis and I sat at the corner so we could talk to George and set this up a little bit and, make this all happen.
• 49:55
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But the counter it worth waiting for, I think is, oh yeah, it is.
• 49:59
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Experiential as opposed to transactional.
• 50:01
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I think at the counter it was, it was really cool and it was really fortunate that he happened to be behind the counter when we were there.
• 50:06
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yes.
• 50:06
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But he does set the tone.
• 50:07
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yep.
• 50:08
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You know, and they all respect him and they all respect each other.
• 50:10
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And that's, that's, that's so important in a restaurant.
• 50:13
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: 'cause you just wanna be there.
• 50:15
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yep.
• 50:15
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Um, but I, I, I love being there.
• 50:17
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: He's super educational.
• 50:19
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I watched a lot of his videos.
• 50:20
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Mm-hmm.
• 50:21
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And he, he even talks about, you know, the steamed burgers, for example.
• 50:24
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I don't NI don't get that.
• 50:25
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I've never understood the White Castle burger.
• 50:27
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I, I don't want a steam burger.
• 50:28
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 50:28
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I, it's not as good.
• 50:29
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But, but I understand that that's what he talked about my art reaction.
• 50:31
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: It's, it's part of the burger.
• 50:32
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Right.
• 50:33
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But he talks about how when they do put those burgers down and they put the cheese on top of the raw meat and there's nuances to how people make burgers.
• 50:40
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: That's.
• 50:40
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Pretty amazing.
• 50:41
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I I, I do wanna put a plugin for our burger.
• 50:43
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You know what I, oh, you have to do it.
• 50:44
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Well, so we've made the first change in our burger in 30 years.
• 50:49
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We added a new topping.
• 50:50
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We found this great supplier for Guan Chale.
• 50:52
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And we did that, primarily'cause we, we we're using it for carbonara.
• 50:57
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And we also have a a, a Guan Chale sandwich on the menu now.
• 51:00
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But we put Guan Chale Crisp, Guan Chale as a topping on the burger.
• 51:03
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: It's, it's the first change we've made in 27 years of that burger.
• 51:07
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: The gu charlie is, it's honestly, it's expensive.
• 51:10
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Which an extra$9 on burger.
• 51:12
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 51:12
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Well it's expensive because it's the best gu charlie around.
• 51:14
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Oh my goodness.
• 51:15
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: It's so good though.
• 51:15
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But here's the thing that I was realizing and we're talking about that burger's, that place's been around for a hundred years, that place's been around for 80 years and um.
• 51:22
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Do you know, I, I don't know whether this is good or bad, and, and, and it's more than a shameless plug, but I think about like, we've been doing this for 33 years.
• 51:30
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 51:31
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So the place that's been doing it for a hundred years, we're a third of the way there.
• 51:34
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We are a third of the way there.
• 51:35
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You know, that pla it's crazy.
• 51:37
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So you, you said something on the show earlier, and I just wanted to clarify.
• 51:40
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: So this burger was invented for our staff.
• 51:43
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
• 51:44
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We didn't originally serve this burger in our dining room or at our bar.
• 51:47
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: this burger was invented.
• 51:49
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We had it for family meal and we were like.
• 51:50
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Oh my God, this is so good.
• 51:51
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We, we just need to, we need to, to, well, and we perfected a little more and, and got the size exactly right.
• 51:58
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: 'cause we have a Woodburn Grill.
• 51:59
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And the Woodburn Grill does magical things with meat of the right size and fat content.
• 52:03
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And when we started it, You could only get it at the bar.
• 52:06
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We wouldn't serve it in the dining room because back then things were more formal.
• 52:10
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You know, back then there were restaurants where you had to have a jacket to sit in the dining room, right?
• 52:13
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You didn't want somebody eating with their hands next to you if you were having a a seven course tasting menu.
• 52:17
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I wouldn't want someone eating food with their hands next to me while I am fancy, you know?
• 52:22
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And then, uh, that changed when people were like.
• 52:25
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Listen, this is really annoying.
• 52:26
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We're a big client.
• 52:27
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We want the burgers.
• 52:28
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I will say I still love the Amish bacon on there.
• 52:30
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 52:31
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But the gu Guan Cha's a whole new dimension.
• 52:33
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 52:33
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Yeah.
• 52:33
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: The Italian pig cheek is better than the, the Amish are nice and all, but you know, they should get out more crispy and ah, it's so good.
• 52:39
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: The Amish are nice, but they should get out.
• 52:42
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: They really should be.
• 52:43
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: No letters from Amish.
• 52:44
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Amish?
• 52:44
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: No, no.
• 52:45
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Well, they can write letters.
• 52:46
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Sure.
• 52:46
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: But you can't see.
• 52:48
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Like, don't send me letters.
• 52:49
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: No, there you go.
• 52:49
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Amish.
• 52:49
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Amish people.
• 52:50
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I'm sorry for what Francis said.
• 52:52
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I'm sorry for what?
• 52:52
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I said Well, but I'm not sorry for the burger and I'm not sorry for having George Moats on the show.
• 52:58
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I do recommend going to his place.
• 53:00
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I do recommend watching his videos on YouTube.
• 53:02
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Really educational, super fun guy.
• 53:04
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And if you can sit at the counter and talk to George and tell him you heard him on the restaurant, guys, uh, he'll be thrilled to hear from you.
• 53:10
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: Indeed.
• 53:10
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: All right, we'll talk to you soon.
• 53:11
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: I'm Francis Shot.
• 53:12
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: And I'm Mark Pascal.
• 53:13
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: We are the restaurant guys.
• 53:14
  the-restaurant-guys_2_05-01-2025_124715: You can always find out more@restaurantguyspodcast.com.