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The Childcare Catch-22 · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
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Speaker 1: Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
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Speaker 1: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
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Speaker 1: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
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Speaker 1: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
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Speaker 1: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
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Speaker 1: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
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Speaker 1: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
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Speaker 1: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
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Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
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Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
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Speaker 4: that makes money talk easy and relatable. Just like chatting
1:03
Speaker 4: with your besties, that's us and if your besties are moms.
1:06
Speaker 4: This question is probably one that comes up in the
1:08
Speaker 4: group chat a lot. Is it really worth going back
1:10
Speaker 4: to work with these childcare costs? It is a tricky one.
1:13
Speaker 4: I know a lot of our audience are probably feeling
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Speaker 4: the pin right now. Well, today I'm here with our
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Speaker 4: resident finance expert and supermom Victoria Devine.
1:21
Speaker 2: Supermum is a stretch. I'm like my baby is fed
1:25
Speaker 2: and clothed and not crying.
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Speaker 4: Sleigh, that is a winner.
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Speaker 2: Truly credible. Beck, I am very excited to be here
1:32
Speaker 2: talking about childcare. This is new to me and I
1:35
Speaker 2: cannot wait to dive deeper.
1:37
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, I don't have children, but
1:39
Speaker 4: it just sounds like it's so much gonna be.
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Speaker 2: Shook with the information that I'm bringing today. You're going
1:43
Speaker 2: to be like, how in this economy can anyone afford children?
1:48
Speaker 3: Mmmm?
1:48
Speaker 4: Well, I'm excited to hear so v how much exactly
1:51
Speaker 4: our families spending on childcare.
1:53
Speaker 2: It's not very pretty so on average, Australian families are
1:56
Speaker 2: spending around seventeen percent of their income on child care. Well,
2:01
Speaker 2: as you can probably imagine, that is a massive financial
2:05
Speaker 2: commitment that's forced many parents to make a really hard
2:08
Speaker 2: decision between work and family life. And for many of them,
2:12
Speaker 2: childcare is such a big financial strain that impacts literally
2:16
Speaker 2: everything from weekly grocery budgets to long term saving goals
2:21
Speaker 2: and living their best life. In places like Sydney. In Melbourne,
2:25
Speaker 2: full time childcare can set you back back, sit down
2:29
Speaker 2: anywhere between one hundred and twenty and two hundred and
2:32
Speaker 2: twenty dollars a day, a day, a day, and Bestie
2:36
Speaker 2: on this side of the table, I'm spending one hundred
2:38
Speaker 2: and ninety four dollars a day on childcare a day.
2:42
Speaker 2: Is so outrage and I'm only sharing that because that's
2:45
Speaker 2: inner Melbourne. And I feel like when I put on
2:48
Speaker 2: my Instagram a couple of months before Harvey was due,
2:51
Speaker 2: because I was really trying to set all my ducks
2:54
Speaker 2: up and like, you know, pick a day care before
2:56
Speaker 2: he'd even like gotten here. Basically because even the wait
2:59
Speaker 2: lists beck are insane, I was asking like how much
3:02
Speaker 2: do you pay? And it was so wildly different, like
3:05
Speaker 2: some of them are like, oh, one twenty a day,
3:06
Speaker 2: someone like literally like two hundred and fifty, like on
3:09
Speaker 2: averages between one twenty and two twenty a day. But
3:13
Speaker 2: it varied so much that now I'm like, well, I'm
3:15
Speaker 2: you know, in a city Melbourne, I'm within that like
3:18
Speaker 2: ten kilometer bring around to the CBD and I'm paying
3:20
Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety four dollars a day. And having
3:23
Speaker 2: been a little bit over the top, I looked at
3:26
Speaker 2: basically every single deca in my area and that was
3:29
Speaker 2: actually average, like it wasn't oh the most expensive one
3:33
Speaker 2: that was just what you pay crazy.
3:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like sometimes that would be more than what
3:38
Speaker 4: someone makes a day if they were Yeah, and get this,
3:40
Speaker 4: if you have a permanent position. So I am lucky
3:43
Speaker 4: enough that Harvey has been given a permanent position. So
3:45
Speaker 4: we know that he goes two days a week, but
3:48
Speaker 4: those two days a week it's set aside for him.
3:50
Speaker 4: But if your child doesn't go because they're sick, you
3:53
Speaker 4: still have to pay. Really, yeah, you can't just like
3:55
Speaker 4: call in and be like sorry, like we're not coming
3:58
Speaker 4: in today. Money in, Like no, no, you're paying for that day.
4:02
Speaker 4: And even though they probably got sick from being in childcare,
4:05
Speaker 4: that doesn't matter at all. And I think nothing recently
4:10
Speaker 4: has stung quite as much as seeing a payment go
4:13
Speaker 4: through for the days that Harvey hasn't been in his
4:16
Speaker 4: little class. Wow. I mean, like, I know that childcare
4:20
Speaker 4: workers do deserve to be paid a lot.
4:22
Speaker 2: And so I wrote a whole article in the Sydney
4:25
Speaker 2: Morning Herald and the Age probably a year ago now,
4:28
Speaker 2: just being like what the heck. And this was during
4:31
Speaker 2: my period of time where I was doing all of
4:33
Speaker 2: my research on my daycare centers. Working out what we
4:35
Speaker 2: were going to pay for and what that looked like,
4:37
Speaker 2: and I was horrified. I mean, that's a conversation probably
4:41
Speaker 2: for another day, because they do deserve to be paid
4:45
Speaker 2: so much more, and we'll touch on it absolutely so,
4:48
Speaker 2: because I don't really know what these costs are, Like,
4:51
Speaker 2: I am quite mortified, but I'm sure.
4:53
Speaker 4: There are reasons for this.
4:54
Speaker 2: So there definitely are reasons for this.
4:57
Speaker 4: Tell me, yeah, what's driving these high costs?
4:59
Speaker 2: Honestly, A lot of it just comes down to regulation.
5:02
Speaker 2: So childcare centers have to meet really strict staff to
5:05
Speaker 2: child ratios, which then obviously varies by child grouping and
5:09
Speaker 2: affects the price. So right now, Harvey is six months old,
5:14
Speaker 2: but that means he's got the most level of care
5:17
Speaker 2: right now, So there's the minimum amount of babies per
5:20
Speaker 2: child care worker in his room because he can't even
5:23
Speaker 2: sit up unassisted at this point, Like we can sit up,
5:26
Speaker 2: then we fall over, so he needs basically someone always
5:30
Speaker 2: watching him. Whereas you can probably imagine once you get
5:32
Speaker 2: to like three or four, I won't say they're fully independent,
5:36
Speaker 2: but like they're happy to go play on their own
5:38
Speaker 2: and they can get their own toys and whatnot. So
5:40
Speaker 2: for little ones under two here in Australia, it's one
5:44
Speaker 2: care for every four children, which obviously drives up costs
5:48
Speaker 2: to maintain that quality, but also your kids safety, right,
5:52
Speaker 2: so you've got one person per four children, and as
5:55
Speaker 2: your kids get older obviously that relaxes. And here in
5:58
Speaker 2: Australia kids over three can have about ten or eleven
6:02
Speaker 2: kids per care, depending on your state, which means that
6:05
Speaker 2: usually your fees will drop a little bit lower, but honestly,
6:09
Speaker 2: nothing to write home about.
6:10
Speaker 4: Sure, I assume, like inflation, cost of living going up,
6:13
Speaker 4: that probably is also a.
6:16
Speaker 2: Kind of oh my gosh, yes, yeah, oh, I'm looking
6:19
Speaker 2: at it at the moment. And there's obviously a lot
6:21
Speaker 2: in the media about more support happening for childcare, but
6:26
Speaker 2: I can just see it coming. Cares are just going
6:28
Speaker 2: to increase their prices and pass things onto you, which
6:31
Speaker 2: I think is crazy. But with basic needs like rent
6:35
Speaker 2: and utilities and our grocery bills being so much, don't
6:38
Speaker 2: get me started on the Woolies profit this year, those
6:42
Speaker 2: costs get passed on, which makes childcare even more expensive.
6:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I see, that's so hectic.
6:49
Speaker 2: And some centers beck it's like the wild West in
6:52
Speaker 2: a way. I won't say there's obviously like a lot
6:54
Speaker 2: of regulation, but sure. Some childcare centers, like the one
6:58
Speaker 2: Harvey's privileged enough to go to, is all inclusive, so
7:01
Speaker 2: like I drop him off in the morning and it
7:03
Speaker 2: includes his meals, it includes nappies, it includes his formula,
7:07
Speaker 2: which is really cool. I didn't realize that. Like when
7:10
Speaker 2: I dropped him off for the first time for orientation,
7:12
Speaker 2: they were like, what formula is he on? And I
7:14
Speaker 2: was like, oh, he's on this and they were like,
7:16
Speaker 2: no worries, We'll buy it and put it to the side. Cool,
7:18
Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, Like that made it sting
7:21
Speaker 2: slightly less. I guess that makes it formula's expensive, beck, Yeah,
7:24
Speaker 2: and that formula for Harvey thirty four dollars a can
7:28
Speaker 2: and we go through like at least a can a week.
7:31
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, so right, it kind of shaves off
7:34
Speaker 2: a little bit, the smallest amount. I mean, if they
7:37
Speaker 2: cut my day care fees in half, I would be
7:39
Speaker 2: very happy to be wayo formula. But not everybody is
7:43
Speaker 2: in that lucky position. Some people will probably be like,
7:46
Speaker 2: V I'm paying what you're paying, and I have to
7:48
Speaker 2: send nappies to daycare. I have to send formula, I
7:51
Speaker 2: have to send a packed lunch. Like, as I said,
7:54
Speaker 2: it can kind of be the wild West. There's no like, oh,
7:56
Speaker 2: if you charge this much, you have to give this
7:58
Speaker 2: level of service. While it's you know, obviously very convenient
8:02
Speaker 2: for me, and on average, it costs more in places
8:05
Speaker 2: like that than where places where parents supply it. But
8:08
Speaker 2: I do know from my DMS from when I was
8:11
Speaker 2: talking about childcare, there are some places that just know
8:14
Speaker 2: there's such high demand for childcare that they're like, you
8:18
Speaker 2: guys can provide everything. We know you're still going to
8:20
Speaker 2: come and we're going to charge through the nose. So
8:22
Speaker 2: there's a bit of a trade off between convenience and
8:24
Speaker 2: costs sometimes but not all the time.
8:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about like the impact on families. I
8:29
Speaker 4: assume it's like quite massive. Yeah, it's so.
8:33
Speaker 2: Stressful, so many parents And I'm in a mother's group
8:36
Speaker 2: now cool. I don't even know if they know I
8:39
Speaker 2: have a podcast, but if they do and they happen
8:40
Speaker 2: to listen to, high heaps of parents still really forced
8:43
Speaker 2: to cut back on work hours or completely leave the
8:46
Speaker 2: workforce entirely. Yeah, Beck, when you calculate it out, like thankfully,
8:52
Speaker 2: between Steve and I, we only do two days a
8:55
Speaker 2: week daycare if you don't get any subsidies, and we
8:59
Speaker 2: just going to base it on that one ninety four
9:01
Speaker 2: that I mentioned before, if Harvey was in full time
9:05
Speaker 2: daycare Monday to Friday so that I could go back
9:09
Speaker 2: to work full time, if I was, you know, fully employed,
9:12
Speaker 2: and I am definitely seeing the privilege that I have
9:14
Speaker 2: right now being a business owner and it being flexible.
9:16
Speaker 2: And you know, Beck, if I'm like, hey, Harvey's coming
9:18
Speaker 2: into the office, You're like, yeah, sick, no worries, Like yeah,
9:21
Speaker 2: nobody minds. I am so lucky, and I know that's
9:23
Speaker 2: not the norm. Post tax, that would cost my family
9:27
Speaker 2: fifty thousand, four hundred and forty dollars a year.
9:31
Speaker 4: That is literally someone's wage. Imagine you're a single poy.
9:35
Speaker 2: In someone's wage, like Beck, that's someone's take home cash.
9:39
Speaker 2: We're talking an eighty plus thousand dollars salary. And don't
9:42
Speaker 2: get me wrong, we will talk about subsidies and stuff
9:45
Speaker 2: because a lot of people get money back, but there
9:48
Speaker 2: are families out there that you know, one is a
9:51
Speaker 2: really big bread winner, has a big dog, job, and like,
9:54
Speaker 2: let's not jump into the well, they're so lucky to
9:57
Speaker 2: have that income. Like we're not talking about just the
9:59
Speaker 2: income here, we're talking about it being viable for women
10:03
Speaker 2: to maintain their careers. It just doesn't make sense for
10:06
Speaker 2: your wife or your partner or your husband to return
10:09
Speaker 2: to work if they earn less than that. Totally go, well,
10:13
Speaker 2: what's the point we're paying through the nose for me
10:15
Speaker 2: to go to work? And just insane, Beck, it is insane.
10:19
Speaker 4: I just really worry about the single parents in the
10:21
Speaker 4: situation because they're literally what do you do?
10:23
Speaker 2: What do?
10:23
Speaker 4: You just got to live off zero dollars for it?
10:25
Speaker 2: And I mean you will get as a single parent
10:27
Speaker 2: subsidies and stuff, and we'll get into that, but that
10:31
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it doesn't come out of your bank account,
10:33
Speaker 2: which is something we'll get onto.
10:34
Speaker 4: Sure.
10:35
Speaker 2: Back to career progression, obviously, it impacts that it stalls
10:39
Speaker 2: your long term career progression and your long term financial stability.
10:42
Speaker 2: And in fact, there was research that I was reading
10:44
Speaker 2: recently that said that sixty seven percent of Australian mums
10:48
Speaker 2: said childcare costs influenced their decision to work less or
10:52
Speaker 2: not at all right, okay, sixty seven percent. It's important
10:57
Speaker 2: to also recognize here that not everyone has the life
11:00
Speaker 2: of choice. So some families parents need to work to
11:04
Speaker 2: make ends meet. But for those of you who do
11:06
Speaker 2: have a choice, it's all about weighing up what is
11:09
Speaker 2: best for you. A really common way that I'm seeing
11:12
Speaker 2: it being broken down is by comparing the cost of
11:14
Speaker 2: childcare with what the primary care earns. So once you
11:17
Speaker 2: subtract those fees, is the remaining income enough to justify working.
11:22
Speaker 2: Sometimes the number bekad just doesn't add up. And then
11:26
Speaker 2: the time spent away from your kids, like you just go,
11:29
Speaker 2: that's not worth the financial return. And I can see
11:32
Speaker 2: that so much now, like I don't want to be
11:34
Speaker 2: away from Harvey if I don't have to be yes.
11:37
Speaker 2: And then if you said, VI, you're not going to
11:38
Speaker 2: earn that much if you did go back to work,
11:40
Speaker 2: I'd be like, that's not worth it, Like what are
11:42
Speaker 2: you talking about? And I know that if you are
11:46
Speaker 2: a parent, you probably really resonate with that. But before
11:49
Speaker 2: I was a parent, I think I definitely had the
11:51
Speaker 2: view of like no, no, no, Like I am forever
11:54
Speaker 2: a working mum, Like I just know that in my soul.
11:57
Speaker 2: I need to work to be the best version of me,
12:00
Speaker 2: and that's true. But that pool to always be closer
12:04
Speaker 2: to Harvey and be around him is there as well,
12:07
Speaker 2: and I didn't realize that it would be as strong
12:09
Speaker 2: as it is. So I can see it being really,
12:12
Speaker 2: really overwhelming for a lot of families to be like,
12:15
Speaker 2: I really want my career, but I really love my kids.
12:18
Speaker 2: But I really want a career. But is it financially
12:21
Speaker 2: viable to do so? And there's long term impacts, like
12:24
Speaker 2: if you're out of the workforce, you don't just get
12:26
Speaker 2: to enter back where you were and have the same
12:28
Speaker 2: amount of career progression. Ah but Beck, what if we
12:32
Speaker 2: are looking at all of this the wrong way. We're
12:35
Speaker 2: going to take a really quick break, and when we return,
12:38
Speaker 2: I'm going to share why I think this mindset could
12:41
Speaker 2: potentially use a bit of a shakeup. So don't go anywhere.
12:49
Speaker 4: All right, we are back. Thank you for sticking with us,
12:51
Speaker 4: but you promise us a hot take before the breakup?
12:53
Speaker 2: I do a little Yeah.
12:54
Speaker 4: I was really like intrigued, how could we possibly turn
12:57
Speaker 4: this around?
12:58
Speaker 2: All right? I want to give you guys a bit
12:59
Speaker 2: of a mindset shift. When it comes to thinking about
13:02
Speaker 2: childcare costs. As you probably already know, I'm a really
13:06
Speaker 2: big believer that when you're doing those sums, the cost
13:09
Speaker 2: should actually be split between both parents, yes, not just
13:12
Speaker 2: the primary care. So how many times do families sit
13:16
Speaker 2: down and go, okay, cool, well, Beck, you know, let's
13:18
Speaker 2: pretend you and I had a baby, it'd be really
13:20
Speaker 2: cute if we did. Way, what do you earn back?
13:24
Speaker 2: And then what do I earn? And then you know,
13:25
Speaker 2: the childcare cost gets calculated and we go, well, Beck,
13:28
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to earn that much, so not
13:30
Speaker 2: worth your going to work. Let's push that back. So
13:34
Speaker 2: not just what the primary care is earning, but we're
13:37
Speaker 2: sharing the cost, and by sharing the cost, we're acknowledging
13:41
Speaker 2: that raising children is a joint effort and that both
13:45
Speaker 2: parents benefit from childcare. I think so often the primary
13:50
Speaker 2: care is the one that has to sacrifice, and then
13:53
Speaker 2: the other person is seen as like, oh, but they're
13:56
Speaker 2: the breadwinner, as though childcare isn't the benefit for them,
14:00
Speaker 2: when that's not the case, because there is a trade
14:02
Speaker 2: off to consider. A career break could obviously lead to
14:05
Speaker 2: a very significant drop in superannuation contributions and missed opportunity
14:10
Speaker 2: for career growth like I was saying before, and promotions
14:13
Speaker 2: and bonuses and pay rises, and over time, the gaps
14:17
Speaker 2: in this widens and it affects long term earnings and
14:20
Speaker 2: your financial security. And when you return to work, it
14:23
Speaker 2: often means that you start at a lower salary or
14:26
Speaker 2: like a reduced position, which is another financial penalty. And
14:30
Speaker 2: these cumulative effects they add up, and they add up
14:34
Speaker 2: quickly but silently. You don't see them, but they're adding up,
14:38
Speaker 2: making it really important to weigh the short term benefit
14:40
Speaker 2: of a break against the potential long term financial impacts.
14:44
Speaker 2: And it's a very tough call with honestly, I wish
14:47
Speaker 2: I could tell you, but no perfect answer, and it
14:50
Speaker 2: really comes down to what's best for your family and
14:53
Speaker 2: your unique situation. But I want to reframe it. It's
14:57
Speaker 2: a family cost, not a U cost. It's not the
14:59
Speaker 2: cost of you leaving the business. Yeah, that's so true.
15:02
Speaker 2: You know, one hundred and ninety four dollars a day
15:05
Speaker 2: broken up in my family looks like ninety seven dollars
15:09
Speaker 2: per head for Steve and I to have a career. Yes,
15:12
Speaker 2: that's a bit more palatable.
15:14
Speaker 4: I didn't even think about that that's so funny that
15:16
Speaker 4: my brain was automatically like, whoever's going back to work
15:18
Speaker 4: is paying the thing?
15:19
Speaker 2: But patriarchy.
15:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, based on that, I assume this affects women more.
15:24
Speaker 2: Right, definitely, And like it's not a topic that we're
15:27
Speaker 2: discussing on shees on the money because it impacts men significantly.
15:31
Speaker 2: Like it is a topic that we're discussing because it
15:33
Speaker 2: does impact women more. And women are more likely to
15:36
Speaker 2: take extended breaks to care for their kids, and so
15:40
Speaker 2: often they shoulder most of these costs, and that contributes
15:44
Speaker 2: significantly to the gender pay gap and the superannuation gap
15:47
Speaker 2: over time. And how many times have you seen my
15:49
Speaker 2: name pop up on Instagram back because I've gotten in
15:52
Speaker 2: another fight in the comments section on a post about
15:55
Speaker 2: the gender pay gap where people are saying it doesn't exist,
15:58
Speaker 2: fighting the good fight or starting fights with people who
16:01
Speaker 2: you know when you just go, is this even worth it?
16:04
Speaker 2: Because you get people who are smart human beings going yeah,
16:08
Speaker 2: these correct, right, But then the potato who posted the
16:11
Speaker 2: stuff like, dude, graps not real, Like why are we
16:13
Speaker 2: fighting with people who you can't change the opinions of no,
16:15
Speaker 2: And it's.
16:16
Speaker 4: Also factually really like They're like, show me the research
16:20
Speaker 4: stends me a link and I'm.
16:21
Speaker 2: Like, right here, right here, it is right here. I
16:24
Speaker 2: have put a flashy sign on it. It is right here.
16:27
Speaker 2: And they're look, that's not real research. I don't what
16:31
Speaker 2: do you deem is real? The onion like, I can't.
16:35
Speaker 2: Oh no, I saw that on the Buttudah.
16:37
Speaker 4: It must be true all Batuda people.
16:42
Speaker 2: So I guess Beck back to the conversation at hand.
16:45
Speaker 2: If you do decide to stay home with the kids,
16:47
Speaker 2: it's really important to keep these factors in mind when
16:50
Speaker 2: you're planning for the future. So my favorite thing ever.
16:53
Speaker 4: That's let's do some.
16:56
Speaker 2: So say you're getting about ten grand a year in
16:59
Speaker 2: super Yes, nice. This amount might not seem in isolation
17:03
Speaker 2: like that much. So while you're not working, contributing might
17:07
Speaker 2: feel like less of a priority. Like whatever, it's ten grand.
17:11
Speaker 2: Ten grand's a lot of money. But let's say you
17:13
Speaker 2: take five years off, because that's the amount of time
17:16
Speaker 2: that it might take your tiny human being to get
17:18
Speaker 2: into school. That's fifty thousand dollars in missed super contributions.
17:23
Speaker 1: Peck.
17:23
Speaker 2: True, that's not great, but over five years, it's easy
17:27
Speaker 2: to go, oh, whatever it was five years. We'll shrug
17:29
Speaker 2: it off in the short term. But here is why
17:31
Speaker 2: it matters, and it all has to do with my
17:34
Speaker 2: favorite thing that's not maths, which is compound interest. Like
17:39
Speaker 2: compound interesting, it's the money that your money makes. When
17:41
Speaker 2: your money's made, money like that is very sexy. If
17:45
Speaker 2: that fifty thousand dollars had a chance to compound over
17:47
Speaker 2: thirty years, not unreasonable at a very conservative rate of
17:51
Speaker 2: seven and a half percent, because we all know that
17:53
Speaker 2: the Australian share market has returned more than nine percent.
17:56
Speaker 2: Well we can use seven and a half because I
17:58
Speaker 2: would much prefer under promise over deliver, you know. Oh yeah, yeah,
18:02
Speaker 2: that's a me thing. It would grow to around four
18:04
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
18:06
Speaker 4: Holy hell, that's so good. It is shocked by this.
18:10
Speaker 2: But Beck, most women do not retire with four hundred
18:13
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars. That's abrannuation.
18:15
Speaker 4: It's a real problem.
18:16
Speaker 2: So you're telling me that just by really caring about this, yeah,
18:22
Speaker 2: we could put women in a better position. We know
18:25
Speaker 2: that the highest growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness, Beck
18:30
Speaker 2: are women in their fifties and sixties, you're telling me
18:33
Speaker 2: that by caring about this, by helping them contribute when
18:38
Speaker 2: they take career gaps, I could save a lot of
18:40
Speaker 2: people from going through that. Why aren't more people doing
18:44
Speaker 2: more stuff about this, That's a great question. So it
18:47
Speaker 2: could be very worthwhile having your working partner, beck contribute
18:52
Speaker 2: to your super while you're on that break. Yes, again
18:54
Speaker 2: a privilege if you have a partner in that situation
18:56
Speaker 2: and you're not a single mum. But there are lots
18:59
Speaker 2: of things that you could plan around that if you
19:01
Speaker 2: were a single parent, Beck, like if you're planning to
19:04
Speaker 2: become a single parent in the future, contributing a bit
19:07
Speaker 2: more to your super before you go on leave or
19:09
Speaker 2: even after. There's just a lot to do, but it
19:11
Speaker 2: could be very worthwhile looking into that. I think it's
19:15
Speaker 2: also really worthwhile thinking about ways to upskill while you're
19:18
Speaker 2: not working. Are you going to re enter the workplace
19:21
Speaker 2: even more skilled than when you left it? Smart means
19:24
Speaker 2: smart move though.
19:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, you could just YouTube a bunch of stuff.
19:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there are plenty of courses and certifications that
19:31
Speaker 2: you can do online, even at your own pace, to
19:33
Speaker 2: keep your skills sharp or learn something new, And this
19:36
Speaker 2: can make you obviously a more attractive candidate when you're
19:39
Speaker 2: ready to return to work and help aim for those
19:42
Speaker 2: I guess promotions and pay rises in the future that
19:44
Speaker 2: you might have missed during your break.
19:46
Speaker 4: That's a really good idea of v And then I guess,
19:47
Speaker 4: like you know, obviously you will be working full time
19:49
Speaker 4: unless you have an equal parent. Hopefully they take some
19:51
Speaker 4: of that off your hands. I mean they should go
19:53
Speaker 4: it in like all of it's just hardbare. I totally agree. No,
19:56
Speaker 4: look great in interviews if you're like, hey, while I was.
19:58
Speaker 2: On leave, look what I did. I am a very
20:00
Speaker 2: motivated person. I'm a very big believer in hiring mums.
20:04
Speaker 2: Like I have a few mums on the team, and
20:07
Speaker 2: I just know they're the ones that are going to
20:08
Speaker 2: get it done back.
20:09
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because they've gone from working twenty four hours
20:11
Speaker 4: a day.
20:12
Speaker 2: Back into being like, oh, you only want thirty eight
20:15
Speaker 2: hours from me, No worry.
20:16
Speaker 4: Easy, easy.
20:18
Speaker 2: Also like I just hire a working mom. I mean
20:21
Speaker 2: I gets a recruitment strategy around hiring a working mum
20:23
Speaker 2: and giving a work life flexibility to be able to
20:25
Speaker 2: pick the kids up, go to school, assembly and then work. Anyway,
20:29
Speaker 2: we could do a research piece into my business. But
20:31
Speaker 2: that is not what we're talking about, Beck.
20:33
Speaker 4: No, that's true. But I do want to know, like
20:35
Speaker 4: how some ways that families can get support. Yes, so
20:38
Speaker 4: we were talking before you could claim some So currently
20:41
Speaker 4: in Australia, the Chugcare Subsidy or the CCS, is available
20:45
Speaker 4: to families who have a combined income under five hundred
20:48
Speaker 4: and thirty thousand dollars.
20:50
Speaker 2: That's so much money. Yeah, So, like I was talking
20:53
Speaker 2: before about, obviously an individual earning so much that you
20:57
Speaker 2: don't get the CCS right, and then obviously weighing up
21:00
Speaker 2: whether it's worth somebody else going back to work. Obviously
21:04
Speaker 2: that is a very unique situation and that must be nice.
21:08
Speaker 2: But when we're talking about this, I think we need
21:10
Speaker 2: to check our own privilege but also kind of keep
21:12
Speaker 2: our blinkers on it and stay in our own lane.
21:15
Speaker 2: Like let's say that there is a case study sitting
21:17
Speaker 2: over here and it's like George and Frankie, right, like
21:21
Speaker 2: we've just made them up and Georgia and so much money,
21:24
Speaker 2: and Frankie, you know, has a good job, but isn't
21:27
Speaker 2: going to be able to claim anything. Do you think
21:30
Speaker 2: it's fair to then say, Beck, well, that woman because
21:32
Speaker 2: her partner earns bank and like takes home so much money,
21:36
Speaker 2: should you know, just stay home with the kids, or
21:39
Speaker 2: should they be spending heaps and heaps and heaps on childcare? Like,
21:42
Speaker 2: I just don't think that women should have to have
21:44
Speaker 2: the burden of choosing between either because it's their problem. Like,
21:48
Speaker 2: I get the conversation. I get the privilege in earning
21:50
Speaker 2: so much that it's like a financial conversation but also
21:54
Speaker 2: like a work life balance conversation. But I just still,
21:57
Speaker 2: at any income level, even if you are so financially secure,
22:01
Speaker 2: hate the idea that women are still choosing between these
22:05
Speaker 2: two things. Like it's the nineteen fifties, I know what
22:08
Speaker 2: the hell Like cool, like your partner owns heaps, but
22:12
Speaker 2: like I want to pave my own way too. I
22:14
Speaker 2: want to feel accomplished. I want to feel like a
22:16
Speaker 2: contributing member to this household. Like I know that it's
22:20
Speaker 2: not just about the money, but like I want to
22:22
Speaker 2: feel like a whole person. It's like me, right, beck
22:25
Speaker 2: I have said before I had a baby and after
22:27
Speaker 2: I had a I'm a working mum. Yeah I'm not
22:30
Speaker 2: going to be that mum who is a stay at
22:32
Speaker 2: home mum. Does that mean I'm less dedicated to my kids?
22:35
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. But I am the best version of me
22:38
Speaker 2: when I get to work, and I think other people
22:40
Speaker 2: in that situation should have the privilege of choice. But
22:44
Speaker 2: the CCS back to this, is a subsidy that the
22:47
Speaker 2: Australian government pays directly to your childcare provider to reduce
22:52
Speaker 2: the fees that you have to pay. So the amount
22:55
Speaker 2: you receive really depends on your income, the number of
22:58
Speaker 2: children that you have in care, and the age of
23:00
Speaker 2: your children, and the type of childcare that you use
23:03
Speaker 2: in the hours of approved activity that you undertake like
23:06
Speaker 2: work or approved study. So there is in the CCS
23:11
Speaker 2: an hourly rate cap that's based on your child's age
23:14
Speaker 2: and the type of care that they are in. So,
23:17
Speaker 2: for example, Beck, the hourly rate cap is fourteen dollars
23:20
Speaker 2: and twenty nine cents for kids under six in center
23:24
Speaker 2: based care. If your CCS rate is, say, for's sake,
23:28
Speaker 2: fifty percent, and you were paying for eleven hours of
23:31
Speaker 2: care at two hundred bucks, uh huh, so eighteen dollars
23:35
Speaker 2: and eighteen cents per hour, you'd only get fifty percent
23:39
Speaker 2: of the CCS on the first fourteen dollars and twenty
23:43
Speaker 2: nine cents per hour and you'd have to pay full
23:45
Speaker 2: fee for the rest of the time.
23:46
Speaker 4: Why goddamn minute. I am having trouble absorbing that. So
23:53
Speaker 4: that's ridiculous.
23:55
Speaker 2: That is it's nice. I think it's like I'm still
23:59
Speaker 2: paying full fees on top of that. So there's an
24:02
Speaker 2: online calculator and I'll make sure that this is in
24:04
Speaker 2: the show notes if you want to have a play
24:05
Speaker 2: with it. Not you specifically, Beck, but the community who
24:08
Speaker 2: it is relevant to. I feel like people are probably
24:10
Speaker 2: going to think this is really pervy as well. If
24:12
Speaker 2: you don't have kids, you're like, wait, that's how that
24:14
Speaker 2: system works.
24:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, But it's.
24:16
Speaker 2: At starting Blocks dot gov dot au, which is a
24:19
Speaker 2: government website about all things childcare, which can help you
24:22
Speaker 2: estimate your subsidy and how much you will pay based
24:25
Speaker 2: on specific center costs. Beck. Some proposed policy changes aim
24:30
Speaker 2: for more affordable care, including a campaign proposing ten dollars
24:33
Speaker 2: a day care for all Australians, but nothing's finalized yet.
24:37
Speaker 2: And do you want my two cents? Beck? Of course,
24:41
Speaker 2: So hold on, let's step back. So say you incur
24:43
Speaker 2: a cost for your work, you get to claim that
24:47
Speaker 2: on tax right. Yes, So for me to turn up
24:49
Speaker 2: at work today, Beck, I had to put my child
24:52
Speaker 2: into daycare. That's a work cost. Why can't I claim
24:57
Speaker 2: childcare as a part of my work costs. It's the
25:02
Speaker 2: cost of going to work, like my husband and I
25:06
Speaker 2: should be able to And this is not me being greedy.
25:08
Speaker 2: This is because this is what I want across the
25:10
Speaker 2: whole country for everybody. Ye Like, I want you to
25:14
Speaker 2: be able to claim your out of pocket costs, which
25:18
Speaker 2: we just articulated to you. You're paying fifty percent. Still,
25:23
Speaker 2: I want you to be able to claim that against
25:24
Speaker 2: your tax return. I want you to be able to say, well,
25:27
Speaker 2: this was a cost that I incurred in order for
25:30
Speaker 2: me to go to work and be a productive member
25:32
Speaker 2: of society. I should get the tax back on that
25:34
Speaker 2: if I'm paying for something that is very work related.
25:39
Speaker 2: I feel like this conversation needs to open up, and
25:41
Speaker 2: hopefully in the future it becomes like one of those
25:44
Speaker 2: conversations that we had a couple of years ago about
25:46
Speaker 2: how we used to get taxed on tampons. Oh obnoxious, Right,
25:51
Speaker 2: you're like, well, why are we being taxed on that?
25:53
Speaker 4: Yes? Soon, low down, I'll be like, wow, why couldn't
25:56
Speaker 4: we claim it. But these costs aren't taxed, as you're saying,
26:00
Speaker 4: which is there are some other ways that people can
26:03
Speaker 4: lower these costs. I assume yes there are.
26:07
Speaker 2: So first I'm going to tell you something and I'm
26:10
Speaker 2: going to sound like a broken record, but you need
26:12
Speaker 2: to do your budget and figure out what subsidy you
26:15
Speaker 2: are entitled to to help you make the decision that
26:18
Speaker 2: is right for you. Then I want you to do
26:20
Speaker 2: your research. So costs for different centers and services are
26:24
Speaker 2: going to vary greatly within the same suburb. So as
26:26
Speaker 2: I said before, like my cost was much of a muchness,
26:30
Speaker 2: but they did range, Like I did go and see
26:33
Speaker 2: a couple that I was like, okay, Like I am providing,
26:35
Speaker 2: like you know, formula and nappiers and it's one sixty
26:38
Speaker 2: a day. But when you calculate it all out, it
26:41
Speaker 2: all comes out in the wash when you know, adding
26:44
Speaker 2: things in. But we want to shop around. We want
26:47
Speaker 2: to make sure that we know what we're paying for
26:49
Speaker 2: and its relevance in our community. So starting blocks, the
26:53
Speaker 2: website I mentioned earlier is going to be able to
26:55
Speaker 2: help you with this. I also want you to weigh
26:57
Speaker 2: up the price of childcare closer to home versus closer
27:00
Speaker 2: to work. So if you live in the suburbs, childcare
27:04
Speaker 2: actually might be cheaper than if you opt for an
27:06
Speaker 2: inner city service where rent could be factored into the
27:10
Speaker 2: price that you're paying, right, and having care close to
27:13
Speaker 2: home instead of your work could actually be convenient too,
27:16
Speaker 2: if you don't have to go to the office, but
27:18
Speaker 2: you still want to put your kid into childcare during
27:20
Speaker 2: the day. Maybe your boss is nice. Unless you work
27:22
Speaker 2: from home, that's cover, but having a kid at home
27:25
Speaker 2: not ideal. One of my friend's workplaces has just brought
27:29
Speaker 2: out this entire policy back side note, and they send
27:32
Speaker 2: out this big email that obviously I got sent screenshots
27:35
Speaker 2: of because Tea in the friend group chat of course,
27:38
Speaker 2: of how if you're working from home you're not allowed
27:41
Speaker 2: to have your kids home at the same time as well.
27:42
Speaker 2: What isn't that wild?
27:44
Speaker 4: What the to all out?
27:45
Speaker 2: And there's like so much backlash because I can kind
27:47
Speaker 2: of understand that if you had a full time parent
27:50
Speaker 2: working for you, but they were also like full time
27:53
Speaker 2: caring for a child, you're not going to get the
27:54
Speaker 2: dedicated hours out of them, give or take. Like there's
27:58
Speaker 2: a very big conversation about that, but it included like
28:01
Speaker 2: if your partner was home with the kids, they see
28:04
Speaker 2: that as too much of a distraction. Isn't that insane?
28:07
Speaker 4: Ridiculous?
28:08
Speaker 2: Wouldn't work for me?
28:09
Speaker 4: No, that's ridiculous.
28:11
Speaker 2: If you have the option as well, Beck, you could
28:13
Speaker 2: ask your support network. But again, that's a privilege that
28:16
Speaker 2: so many of us in our community now don't have,
28:19
Speaker 2: Like we just don't have the family support that we
28:21
Speaker 2: used to have. Could a family member potentially help out,
28:26
Speaker 2: or if you've got friends who might be able to
28:27
Speaker 2: help out with childcare? Not everyone can do this, but
28:30
Speaker 2: we are so lucky. I think you know when you're
28:34
Speaker 2: just like, I'm married into it. You probably have not
28:37
Speaker 2: had this thought because you're not married yet. But like
28:39
Speaker 2: I remember being like one, I've messed up. I've married
28:42
Speaker 2: into a family of runners.
28:44
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's a problem.
28:45
Speaker 2: There's a problem. Like they run for fun on holiday,
28:48
Speaker 2: on holiday, they run, don't like any type of event
28:52
Speaker 2: Mother's Day. Wow, we're running the Mother's Day Classic.
28:54
Speaker 4: Sorry, we can't run a Mother's Day.
28:56
Speaker 2: Like my sister in law, Holy moly, Boston Marathon, Like wow,
29:01
Speaker 2: be for real, like incredible, she's training so hard but
29:05
Speaker 2: like it's impressive, you know what, I make the pancakes
29:08
Speaker 2: at home. But the one thing that I did marry
29:11
Speaker 2: into was a family with great support. Like, oh my gosh,
29:15
Speaker 2: Steve's mum. She's like, so do I get Harvey on Friday?
29:19
Speaker 2: Like can I look after him? You let me know,
29:22
Speaker 2: I'll drive to you and pick him up. I'm like,
29:24
Speaker 2: you are doing the most, but that's not something that
29:28
Speaker 2: everybody gets, right, Like that is absolutely a privilege but
29:32
Speaker 2: worthy of sharing. But I think also you could ask yourself, beck,
29:37
Speaker 2: is there an alternative to center based care that you
29:40
Speaker 2: could choose, like maybe a family day care, or like
29:43
Speaker 2: nanny sharing, or like community co ops, occasional care, or
29:48
Speaker 2: even employer supported care. I've got a friend who has
29:51
Speaker 2: three kids, and she found that having an O pair,
29:54
Speaker 2: which sounds really bougie, actually worked best for them financially.
29:58
Speaker 2: They've got a spare room in there house, and by
30:01
Speaker 2: providing room and board, they deduct that from what they
30:04
Speaker 2: pay their O pair, which ends up costing them like
30:06
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty bucks a week. Oh, before I
30:10
Speaker 2: had a baby, I thought that like an O pair,
30:13
Speaker 2: that's what rich people have. Yes, nanny's rich people but
30:16
Speaker 2: like you're telling me right now that if I had
30:18
Speaker 2: my child in full time care Monday to Friday nine
30:22
Speaker 2: till five, it's gonna cost me fifty thousand dollars post tax. Honestly,
30:27
Speaker 2: once I have two kids or maybe even three, like
30:30
Speaker 2: maybe a nanny makes more sense.
30:32
Speaker 4: Totally.
30:33
Speaker 2: Again, a lot of financial privilege talking. But we're just
30:37
Speaker 2: cycling through the options that are there, you know, going
30:40
Speaker 2: back to this example of my friend that's way less
30:43
Speaker 2: than having kids in traditional daycare, kids in traditional daycare
30:47
Speaker 2: for her to put her kids in that daycare before
30:51
Speaker 2: the CCS subsidy one hundred and fifty grand a year.
30:54
Speaker 4: That's so our ready before.
30:56
Speaker 2: Real daycare costs more than private school.
30:59
Speaker 4: Back is outraged.
31:01
Speaker 2: I can't deal with it. But they've also found that
31:03
Speaker 2: with a no pair, the kids are being exposed to
31:06
Speaker 2: less germs. I have a sniffley nose consistently now, so
31:10
Speaker 2: they're never stuck paying for care that they don't use
31:13
Speaker 2: when the kids are under the weather.
31:14
Speaker 4: Well, it's yeah, all those little things about.
31:17
Speaker 2: Another thing I want you to do as well is
31:19
Speaker 2: check with your employer. Will they allow some flexibility in
31:22
Speaker 2: the days and hours that you work to help juggle
31:24
Speaker 2: your kids a bit better. Can you say, maybe work
31:26
Speaker 2: from home or have like adjusted work hours so you
31:28
Speaker 2: can do daycare pickup next When you have made your
31:31
Speaker 2: decision and you're like, you know what daycares for me?
31:34
Speaker 2: Put your child's name down early, Beck, Oh my god,
31:39
Speaker 2: I did not realize the wait list, so I put
31:43
Speaker 2: Halvey's name down when I was twenty weeks pregnant. Twenty
31:49
Speaker 2: week's pregnant. Great. We got a text in July saying, hey,
31:54
Speaker 2: there's going to be a spot in August. It was
31:58
Speaker 2: six months old.
32:00
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's hectic.
32:02
Speaker 2: Be for real, Like that took almost a year to
32:05
Speaker 2: get him into daycare and he didn't even exist yet. Like,
32:08
Speaker 2: I didn't know what gender we were having him. We
32:11
Speaker 2: didn't even have a name. Baby Divine was down on
32:14
Speaker 2: the weight list. Be for real, But put your kid's
32:18
Speaker 2: name down early. In a lot of this country, childcare
32:20
Speaker 2: centers have weight lists, so having your child's name on
32:23
Speaker 2: a few lists earlier can mean a bit more flexibility.
32:26
Speaker 2: To choose a daycare that suits your lifestyle and your budget,
32:30
Speaker 2: and then read the fine print for a childcare service
32:33
Speaker 2: before you sign up and know the terms and conditions.
32:35
Speaker 2: Including any fees and any charges that might apply if
32:38
Speaker 2: you need to cancel good call and then money. Obviously,
32:42
Speaker 2: don't forget your sendling CCS forms. Get them in as
32:46
Speaker 2: early as possible. You're not going to believe this, Beck,
32:50
Speaker 2: I have heard horror stories of families having to pay
32:54
Speaker 2: the full childcare fees out of pocket while they're waiting
32:57
Speaker 2: for their claims to be approved. No back pay, No
32:59
Speaker 2: back pay because it goes to the childcare center. So
33:02
Speaker 2: remember how I said, oh wait when we were talking
33:05
Speaker 2: about how the CCS gets paid to the childcare center.
33:08
Speaker 2: If you're not approved, the childcare center is going to
33:10
Speaker 2: invoice you personally, Beck, and you have to pay in full.
33:14
Speaker 2: And then when the childcare center gets paid, they're like,
33:17
Speaker 2: no worries, We've put this credit on your account because
33:20
Speaker 2: they can't give you the cash right now. You might
33:22
Speaker 2: have a credit, but you've had to pay full. I
33:25
Speaker 2: see exactly. So make sure that you're getting those forms
33:29
Speaker 2: in a SAP, and when the back pay finally does
33:32
Speaker 2: come through, do a bit of a budget so that
33:35
Speaker 2: you don't end up in that situation again, but also
33:37
Speaker 2: so that you don't feel as stung like it's stressful
33:41
Speaker 2: and I think it's really important to be aware of that,
33:44
Speaker 2: and not for you, but like hypothetically speaking, you didn't
33:48
Speaker 2: hear this from me. But if your claim's taking too long,
33:52
Speaker 2: I have heard on the grape line that you call them,
33:56
Speaker 2: you asked to speak to the complaints line, and it
33:59
Speaker 2: can speed things up. So sometimes in that situation, I
34:05
Speaker 2: have heard of people getting approval the next day. Sometimes
34:09
Speaker 2: it does literally pay out to complain. We're not going
34:13
Speaker 2: to get on the phone and they do it or
34:15
Speaker 2: threaten or do anything. We're just gonna hollo kind. So
34:17
Speaker 2: I would really like to talk to your complaints line
34:20
Speaker 2: and what a coincidence it got escalated. And if you're
34:24
Speaker 2: financially struggling, be sure to mention it, because they might
34:28
Speaker 2: be able to push your claim through even faster if
34:30
Speaker 2: you're experiencing financial hardship, which is obviously especially right now,
34:34
Speaker 2: taken really seriously, honestly from my experience, if you call
34:38
Speaker 2: first thing in the morning or like right before they close,
34:41
Speaker 2: they answer pretty quick. Right before they close. Everybody is
34:46
Speaker 2: on yeah you know what. I actually don't call places
34:49
Speaker 2: if I'm like, oh it's like four fifty nah.
34:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, no one's calling it four fifty if they close
34:55
Speaker 4: it five.
34:56
Speaker 2: Or it's like you're sneaky, but be really nice. We
34:58
Speaker 2: can make this really quick, but like we need to
35:01
Speaker 2: get paid, so so do we do? Like sorry, but
35:04
Speaker 2: also not sorry. Fix the system. Don't hate the player.
35:07
Speaker 2: I hate the game exactly exactly, all right, Well, that
35:10
Speaker 2: is a very good tip. And look, we know how
35:13
Speaker 2: tough navigating childcare costs can be. It's not easy, and
35:16
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, there's actually no one
35:18
Speaker 2: size fits all approach. I wish there was. But with
35:21
Speaker 2: good information, I hope that it can become a little
35:24
Speaker 2: bit more manageable for you and you can feel a
35:26
Speaker 2: little bit more empowered. And hopefully by me sharing what
35:29
Speaker 2: I'm up to, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to
35:31
Speaker 2: do it. But beck I've had so many messages from
35:34
Speaker 2: mums being like, thank you for talking about putting your
35:38
Speaker 2: kid in daycare early, Like I felt so judged, you know,
35:41
Speaker 2: I felt like it was a bad mum. Or I
35:43
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, I was doing the wrong thing
35:45
Speaker 2: for my kid. Like if that is, you just know
35:49
Speaker 2: I love it. Harvey loves it. He has the best time.
35:52
Speaker 1: Beck.
35:53
Speaker 2: I dropped him off to daycare this morning. He is
35:55
Speaker 2: six months old, so like he lights up when he
35:58
Speaker 2: sees faces sometimes his care and he just went, that's
36:03
Speaker 2: my friend. He immediately was like, oh, I'm here, I'm
36:07
Speaker 2: gonna have a good day. Like I just know that
36:10
Speaker 2: he's probably getting more stimulation than I could give him
36:13
Speaker 2: at home. And like then when we get home, I
36:16
Speaker 2: know we can't talk back yet, he's only six months old,
36:18
Speaker 2: but I tell him all about my day and I
36:20
Speaker 2: ask him about his day, and I just feel like
36:24
Speaker 2: this is going to really work for us. And I
36:26
Speaker 2: feel like there's so much judgment in this space.
36:28
Speaker 4: My god, moms really copy it, I know, but.
36:30
Speaker 2: We're all just doing the best that we can. Like
36:32
Speaker 2: we're just all out here doing the best for our family,
36:35
Speaker 2: the best for our community, and trying to also support ourselves.
36:39
Speaker 2: Were always told, oh, you can't pull from an empty cup,
36:42
Speaker 2: and then when I say that I'm filling my cup up,
36:44
Speaker 2: You're like, don't do that.
36:45
Speaker 4: I know. I feel like if a mom's not emotionally
36:48
Speaker 4: or physically abusing a child, let them be, let them do.
36:54
Speaker 2: If your kid's happy, slagh, they trying to do the best. Also,
36:57
Speaker 2: I call this like small steps of micro feminism. Next
37:01
Speaker 2: time you run into a dad and they're like not
37:03
Speaker 2: with their kids? Be like, who's looking after the kids
37:05
Speaker 2: and just see them squirm.
37:06
Speaker 4: Yeah really fine, Yes, great idea.
37:09
Speaker 2: All right, Well, have a good day, guys. We will
37:11
Speaker 2: see you next week. I hope that this has been
37:13
Speaker 2: an enlightening.
37:14
Speaker 4: Chat, certainly for me. Who do you?
37:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely do you.
37:17
Speaker 4: We support you. You're doing a great job.
37:19
Speaker 1: You are.
37:19
Speaker 2: Have a good week, guys.
37:20
Speaker 4: Hi, guys.
37:27
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