Latest / The Other 22 Hours / Molly Tuttle on genre fluidity, artistic anxiety, and micro-managing travel routing.

Transcript

Molly Tuttle on genre fluidity, artistic anxiety, and micro-managing travel routing. · The Other 22 Hours

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to basically tell him, you can't try to micro-manage my travel plans, because he loves looking up alternate routes that would get me bare faster or make more sense with routing.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually did find me a better flight and then I was able to switch my flight and like this is helpful, but like, no, I don't want to change my whole plan last minute and annoying my tour manager.
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We often define artists by their output, their records, books, movies, and the times they're on stage.
0:31
[SPEAKER_03]: But the art is made in the quiet, the struggle, and the mundane, the hours that no one sees.
0:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm McKinna Ann.
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Aaron Kray for Hase.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the other 22 hours.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: An exploration of the creative life lived in between.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Today we sit down with a Grammy award winning guitarist, banjo player, singer and songwriter Molly Tuddle, who was also the first female to win the IBM A guitarist of the year award, and who has shared the stage with an incredible list of people to just name a few being Ringo Starr, Billy Strings, and recent guests, Ray Benson, and Jeff Hanna, also the nitty gritty dirt band.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and this conversation is really interesting.
1:25
[SPEAKER_04]: We got to dig into kind of the main theme being how to trust your gut in a life that is constantly changing whether that's your navigating the change of genre fluidity in your artistic expression or the constant change and instability of music as your career path, whether things are going well or not.
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Something we can all relate to.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So with that, please enjoy our conversation with Molly Tuddle.
1:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So we always like to start our conversations with just the real question of how are you today?
2:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And where are you physically and creatively?
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm a home in Nashville.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I leave forward to our tomorrow.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing good today.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had like a chill day, made some coffee, and then had another...
2:13
[SPEAKER_00]: interview this morning and then a label meeting and yeah it's been good I guess I got my wires crossed on this because I was getting confused my labels on the east coast I thought I scheduled my day and then my manager texted me then we had two things but that's the same time so that's kind of difficult when I try to avoid setting my own schedule and having my managers do it because I always cause chaos when I get scheduled for myself
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, times zones are so wild.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a minute where I was doing work being here in national and coordinate between people that were in Hawaii and in Madrid.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh God.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so, why are you confusing?
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They were on like a 12-hour spread between the two of them, like, oh, I give up.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This is so hard.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So the world doesn't have daylight savings here.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's confusing, too.
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And then certain states like Arizona, when you have daylight savings.
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
3:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I worked at Nonsetch 15 years ago.
3:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So whoever you're meeting with might be some of my friends.
3:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'd be a gliser.
3:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, David, no David since I was like 22.
3:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow, that's cool.
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's the best.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: David's record collection has been a lore of this podcast and just the amount of music that turned me on to from Michaela bringing stuff home.
3:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, have you been to his office and person?
3:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I finally did this last year.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't been, I've put out now three records at them and finally with my last record release, I went to the nunsuch.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Headquarters, they had a little party now for the album, and that was fun, but I've never seen it before, so.
3:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
3:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's the different location than it was when I worked there.
3:48
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like a library for he would just let me come in and pick records from his record collection and take him home, and oh, that's super cool.
3:55
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like postgraduate education for me, musically.
3:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So one of the things I'm really curious about is kind of like how you balance your time from the outside looking and it looks like you're always on tour.
4:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you just love that?
4:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Or is there ever time where you have to be really intentional about?
4:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm home from tour, but no, I can't do interviews.
4:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Or are you intentional about your space and timer?
4:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You just in the phase of life where you're just going with the flow and saying, yes, to everything.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of going with the flow.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a hard time transitioning on and off tour.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've been home for a week and a half.
4:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't want to leave home.
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I get so used to the flow of being home.
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I'm on tour, it's like I get into it.
4:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of fun, but sometimes when I get back home, I totally crash for the first couple of days.
4:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I try to be a little mindful of like stuff I say if two especially if my tour schedule gets really really hectic this year I've I only have had one tour so far.
4:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in Europe in the UK for three weeks.
4:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I got back last week.
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I was opening up for Tyler Childers But that was my first tour of the year.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a couple things that I traveled to in January, but they weren't shows.
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been trying to get to all the stuff that I wasn't able to say, yes, do in the fall because I was just going super hard and barely home at all.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm just kind of having fun doing stuff around town and doing stuff like this, like podcasts and interviews, trying to do it while I can before stuff gets busy again.
5:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's a bit of a balance.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I'm excited about stuff, I tried to say yes and then just figure it out when I'm back.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it can be tough.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I get home and I feel like I'm even busier than I was on tour.
5:30
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, I can understand that it's like getting in the van or getting on the bus and you're like, Oh, I have free time.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't feel anything else on the bus right now.
5:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Sun will you get to relax once you go on tour.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like that's kind of the vortex of tour.
5:43
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like an element of escapism even as busy as you are.
5:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like in this one's fear that sometimes for better worst, you're like leaving behind a lot of other
5:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Things like you just are like, oh, I don't have to deal with the TDM of life, so yeah, totally.
6:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you tell us a little bit for our audience?
6:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You've been playing music and touring and performing since a really young age.
6:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm always like specifically interested in guests who this has been like their life.
6:17
[SPEAKER_04]: for their entire life versus someone like me who loved music and took lessons, but it was always like a hobby that wasn't like that the forefront of my life until honestly like well into adulthood.
6:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Like this was always kind of like I don't know if it's that I'm doing versus you or Chris Bealey or Sierra Hole.
6:34
[SPEAKER_04]: It just feels like you were born with instruments in your hand.
6:37
[SPEAKER_04]: You share a little bit about the way that you grew up
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I grew up in the musical household, my dad's a music teacher.
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't teach in schools or anything like that, but he taught private lessons mostly to adults, but some kids as well, and he teaches all the blue rest instruments.
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He still teaches over Zoom, sometimes he'll teach lessons in the backyard and stuff.
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The change for him during COVID he was teaching out of a music store since he moved out to the Bay Area and the 70s and found this music store in Palo Alto where I grew up that needed a bandit teacher and he started teaching bluegrass and they had all these rooms at the store.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them bigger rooms where he could teach group classes.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He would teach bluegrass jam classes and that was fun for me as a kid because he had some students who were my age and we would have kids jam classes and make little bands.
7:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd perform around just that local
7:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that's how I got started.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad was my first guitar teacher.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It really was something I gravitated towards though, even though I'm sure he was really excited when I wanted to play music.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of led by me being like, I want to guitar or I want to violin and what
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: to take piano lessons.
7:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a couple other teachers, like I took piano lessons, I took Suzuki lessons, a tiny bit as a kid, but then when I got a guitar and my dad started showing me chords and stuff, I really took to it, and then after a couple of years I was practicing more and more, and then forming little bands, and then my brother started playing too, and we would play together with my dad.
8:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sort of became a family band and that was my first experience of playing at festivals, traveling to the East Coast to play here and there.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't happen too often, but every so often we got like a show offer in the East and we would travel from California, mostly played around California though.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was fun and then I went to Berkeley College Music after high school and still wasn't really touring, but playing more shows under my own
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then I moved to Nashville after a couple of years at Berkeley.
8:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think the first time I saw you, you were in a band opening for the milk carton kids.
8:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was actually the first band I ever went on a official tour with.
8:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It was called The Good Bigerols, we were on a girl, kind of string band.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And we started because the fiddle player, Liana, she was from Sweden and a book agent wanted to book her like a two week tour and asked her to put together a band of Berkeley students because you wanted to bring over people from the US.
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we had a tour book before we were even really officially abandoned.
9:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Our friend Alice and the group played Banjo and then Alice and suggested me to play guitar and then I was like, my roommate, Brittany Carlson plays the bass so we just put together the band we would rehearse in between our classes out of our clay and then we went on tour that summer in Sweden which was my first time getting to like tour in Europe and also really go on an extended tour so that was super exciting.
9:27
[SPEAKER_04]: has like music becoming a business for you and as you are on like a bigger and bigger stage literal stages but also you know winning Grammys and playing with people like Ringo Star has that changed in any way like your relationship to your writing and your playing.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think like now when I write, I kind of have a sense for what's going to work well in the live show, and then there's always some songs that I think maybe if they're like more balanced or less of like a live show, fixture I still like to record them, but I do kind of have an ear for like what's going to work well in the show.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what do I need?
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of different songs do I not have already in the live show or what's going to be like a really cool moment to play live?
10:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not always right about like what's going to work well live, but I do
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: feel like as I've gotten more performance experience, I kind of just think about that more sense so much of what I do is dooring.
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could be in the studio making records all the time, but that's maybe like less than 10% of it in the rest is dooring, so.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah with being on tour like what is like your creative time look like to write to prepare for records you know in my perception it's not like you're making like the same record over and over again I noticed like very much there is and like what you're making you make which is like something that draws me to your music and your output so like how do you find time for that and how does that fit into like bouncing all over the place
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm always trying to squeeze in writing and I really get more into it when I'm home more often.
10:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's been nice to last couple of years, like the winter, I'll kind of slow down and have a couple months at home.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I find myself just gravitating towards writing and having a lot more ideas.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: When I'm on tour, that can be a little trickier.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just am more focused on putting on the show and all the stuff that goes into the show and keeping my energy up for that.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe working up new covers or new songs that I've already recorded, like they knew
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It just takes up so much of my brain space on tour that if we have like a few days all if I might try writing but a lot of times I sort of get out of the habit and then it takes some time at home to really get into it again but it's always in the back of my mind that I need to be writing new songs every time I get to go back in the studio and make a record it's like my favorite so I'm always just trying to work on that next collection of songs and think about what I want to do next.
11:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you talk a little about your very blue grassy band, Golden Highway, that was gaining a lot of success?
11:56
[SPEAKER_04]: And then your most recent record was perceived as a bit of a pivot with a whole new band, very overtly, an all female band with more of like a rock.
12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: vibe.
12:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
12:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And like Aaron said, we both really love when people don't stay in their lane when they don't stay in the box that they've been put in.
12:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But career wise, professionally, that can be risky and scary.
12:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm also super curious, like plain in the bluegrass world.
12:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Aaron played drums with you and he played for that one tour.
12:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he played with the stray birds too.
12:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And he jokes about like the bluegrass fans being like, what are you doing here,
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if I told you we played.
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say it was like the Ozark Mountain Center.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We were somewhere in Arkansas in like an amphitheater.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't really a big backstage.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was giving everybody a space and I was warming up like sitting like outside on the curb and somebody walked by and stopped and like looked at me.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, are you playing with Molly?
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what drumsticks in my hand?
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yep.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And he looked like he looked at me like I was a ghost.
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, we have electric guitar too.
13:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And his jaw like hit the floor.
13:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I'm curious if you can talk about kind of navigating that if you even like pay attention to it and if it was like anything that you anticipated or considered as well as like your creative motivation and just pursuing a different sound.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think for me, the sound is always dictated by the songs and when we ran it, when it then recorded my record, it was only I'd been planning for a while, it was just returning to making a solo record after the two golden highway albums, so it didn't feel like a huge abrupt out of the blue thing that I was doing, and so it gave me time to put the band together, because the music was so different.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, if I really wanted to wear this album and make it sound like the record, it's going to have to be a different band that was just,
13:46
[SPEAKER_00]: led by the music, but it also sort of worked well for everyone's timelines in the Golden Highway, and let Shelby and Bronwyn and Kyle, and on their all kind of doing their own projects now too.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was something we talked about to as a band that's like important for people to not get stuck doing one thing.
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everyone has so many different projects they want to work on.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it was just a like,
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: an exciting shift for me and then just coming up with ways to still be able to play all my bluegrass material too and like find band members who can write down and do like a a bluegrass portion of the set around one mic and then build up to a more rock sound at times two that was an exciting challenge and something that I like I think made the show really fun and dynamic for all of us is just the variation of playing stuff from
14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: oh my different albums so yeah that's been fun and I think that's sort of informed too like what I want to do next is finding ways to thread all these different styles together.
14:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah I love that.
14:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I also realize I said you formed an overly female band.
14:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know what that means over league.
14:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you the the breaking news story because Ellen and Jelico has decided you want to stay off the road this year.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to focus on stuff at home and now we've
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel I will be playing with us, which I never had any intention of making and, as you said, overtly, you're a young band, so I don't, I was like, I've not, like, gonna start the script when I had a good kind of having men in the band.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But Carl is awesome.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a great banjo player, mandolin player and also plays pedal steel and electric and amazing.
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be so fun.
15:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our first rehearsals coming next week.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited.
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, said to not be hanging out with Ellen because she's super.
15:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys are amazing.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she's incredibly talented.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, just a quick pause from this conversation.
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The other 22 hours is an independent production built entirely on the idea that he's quiet on his conversation's matter.
15:48
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15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can think of one person who would appreciate this show, please pass it along.
15:54
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15:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a small action that makes a massive difference for us.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get back to our conversation.
16:07
[SPEAKER_04]: the whole intentionally or not like forming a female band like it was like news when you shared who your band was.
16:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Also is irritating because it's unfortunate how rare it is to see a band made up of only women.
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a thing though because of
16:27
[SPEAKER_04]: women are so underrepresented in the music industry.
16:30
[SPEAKER_04]: There's always countless statistics and especially for you being a female in the Bluegrass world who plays Leigh Guitar still percentage wise.
16:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There's not a ton out there on big stages.
16:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to say there aren't a ton out there because I think it's often like a perpetual cycle of maybe there are a lot more out there that we just don't know about because they just don't get the support.
16:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm curious if you have any feelings, I know you are an advocate and not spoken about a lot of different things.
17:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm curious about that kind of role in your life being a young woman that has grown up in this world and kind of like breaking boundaries in the way that you play.
17:10
[SPEAKER_04]: That unfortunately shouldn't have anything to do with our genders, but the way of our world it does.
17:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's notable.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny to me because I've never had any problem finding women to hire.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't even go out of my way and end up with a whole female line-ups.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing with that band I was talking about, the goodbye girls.
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have any intention to make it in all female band.
17:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It just so happened.
17:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, it's not hard to hire women at all.
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's so many women.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: in Nashville who are side musicians or leading their own bands.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really know what the hold-up is or like why you're still revamped and don't have women in them because it's it's really never been challenging and all like I don't go out of my way and I pretty much always had women playing in my bands with me.
17:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I also have a project that I've done here and they're called the first ladies of bluegrass, which is all the women who've been the first ones to win their instrumentalist awards from IBM A.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's Allison Brown who was the first woman to win the bandage of the year award.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like the first woman period to win instrumentalist award at the bluegrass music awards.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Sierra, who obviously on Mandolin, Missy Reigns on Basin, Becky Baller on Fiddle.
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we've kind of talked about it.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have like the pressure of feeling like you have to be a role model, just because you're a woman.
18:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's something that we make men do as much, but totally.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say you hope that if you're out there playing that maybe it'll inspire people in the next generation to pick up an instrument, but
18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It does seem like there's still far fewer, at least for like lead, flat-picking blue grass guitar, which is already a pretty small pool of people.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all like, a lot less women doing it than men, so I don't know exactly why that is, but hopefully that starts to shift a little bit more.
18:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I think for better or worse, I think seeing more women on stage helps just give that idea that it's possible.
19:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember like living in New York and I had my guitar on my back and I was at a coffee shop and a little boy with standing line behind me and he goes, look dad, she has a guitar, girls don't play guitar.
19:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh buddy.
19:22
[SPEAKER_04]: But I remember being in band when I was a kid and like being like, oh, I pick a flute because whether it was like conscious or not, I was like, that's what I also agravitated to the instrument.
19:34
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think it's an interesting thing that sometimes I don't even want to bring up or talk about because it continues to kind of put a spotlight on it.
19:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It shouldn't be a thing to be like, oh, wow, your band is made up of women.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, but you also, you don't hear people say, like, the all male band.
19:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't like it.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't have people making social media posts where they highlight all of the bands that only have men in them.
20:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just called a poster for a few of them.
20:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's still out there of like of this festival roster.
20:09
[SPEAKER_04]: There's two bands that have women in them or whatever.
20:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
20:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Personally, like ever since I started touring, being in close proximity with other musicians, I just wanted other girls around.
20:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't need to.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't spend nearly as much time on the road as other view, but I enjoy touring with women more than men.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the way more chill, way more light, way cleaner.
20:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it's a lot cleaner.
20:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's very rare that I've ever had a tourist situation where there's not at least one other women in my band or group, and I like, I prefer it.
20:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I want other women around.
20:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to know also how intentional you are with your days when you are home.
20:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, would you have any routines where you're like, maybe I need some time away from music?
20:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Does that exist in your realm?
21:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Or is it always my day off?
21:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to choose to write, or I'm going to be creative in this way, or is there other parts of yourself that you've nurtured and spent time with?
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I could definitely stand to have more hobbies than outside of music, but a lot of times when I'm home I am just doing other stuff that's not musical going on walks, getting together with friends, I haven't seen in a while, because I've been on tour or just hanging around the house, like I'm not constantly playing music and I do feel like I need those breaks from it, so I don't get sick of it, I guess.
21:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at this point, do I have like baggage around, you know, making it my career and all the things in entails to like go on the road and travel so much and it can be so exhausting.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes you just don't want to think about that and for me, like, it's helpful to have other things that I do and just kind of recenter my life not strictly around my career.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like playing music when I'm home sometimes just having like a jam session or just playing for fun.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also just like a nice way to get
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, put the play back into play.
22:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, totally.
22:03
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the baggage around making music your career?
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just stressful because like, for me, like, I just want to be able to count on something.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like I would do really well if I had a daily schedule that was always the same.
22:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I knew that I was going to have X amount of income for a year, this is my schedule.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I can count on.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not going to be all these ups and downs.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just think it's a really unpredictable career.
22:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And you never know what your schedule is going to look like.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You're kind of at the mercy of what shows.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Come in and you might really hope for a certain thing that doesn't happen, but then another really cool thing that you didn't even think of happens instead like there's just so many surprises and for me someone who likes routine and predictability that can even when things are like going amazingly well it can still be really stressful because you're still nervous about doing a good job and this and that so I have to deal with anxiety around it a lot.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that resonates with both of us.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's in a way like a little bit refreshing to hear with somebody that has this schedule and the team and the longevity that you have had, that things are still unpredictable.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I hear you saying what I feel and what I think Michaela feels was just like, cool, it's January 1st.
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder what this year's gonna look like.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: In that like, you know, you have a kind of an idea, but there's still so much left up to question,
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, is that something that you guys kind of shoot for and strive for?
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, what does that look like for you?
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I let them know that I like to have things figured out earlier in advance, but there's kind of only so much you can do.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially this year, I did so many headline tours last year that this year were kind of focusing more on opening four bands like we're going out and opening for Chris Stapleton, which I've never done before, and I'm super excited about.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're trying to base the year more around other people's tours and doing more festivals, and this is that you are kind of at the mercy of when they are walking in stuff as well, so there's kind of only so much you can do.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I am doing headline stuff still, so at that part of it, we control, but it's more instead of like booking an entire fall of just my schedule and my headline shows, it's more filling in the gaps around these other things that I'm doing.
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like it just varies so much year to year, how much you know in advance.
24:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So this year was one of the more figuring out stuff on the fly as it comes in, which was a little stressful.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, one of the things I continually learn and think is important to highlight is that we often can think that having a quote unquote successful career is just like a product of being musically good enough and I feel like there's so much more at play and like having the mental strength
24:51
[SPEAKER_04]: and like the emotional strength to navigate the instability, the surprise.
24:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you said even the anxiety around like wanting to do a good job of being able to perform under pressure.
25:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So much of that are essential like determining factors that some of us just aren't.
25:08
[SPEAKER_04]: built with.
25:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you found anything to help with that anxiety of practices or tricks or tools of whether it's like high pressure performance or just like the instability of income as a musician when you're just like sometimes it's flush and you're like,
25:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Woo hoo, I'm coasting and things are going great and I've got all this work and then like another time you're just like, okay, I don't know what to do and really having to balance and resist the urge to just spiral into panic because something always comes through.
25:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I've definitely been like working on ways to like manage that because otherwise your emotions are just ruling you either just all over the place.
25:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know there are so many ups and downs.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess it's just, usually you talk to my team.
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm feeling really concerned about something, usually they're pretty good about helping me make a plan or talking about it.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If I have to like go my agents, my managers, I feel like that always makes me feel better.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just feeling like I have that support system around me, you know, maybe even talking my band or like,
26:12
[SPEAKER_00]: My crew or this and that, just kind of like not keeping it all inside.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess just helpful for me.
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've tried like so many different things, whether it's like meditation or talking to a therapist that can all be like so helpful.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just keeping up with finding something that you can sort of keep a routine with, which is the tricky part.
26:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's so hard when your schedule is all over the place.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you know, the routines that you find that you have time for and freedom to do while you're at home, all of a sudden you're in a stretch of being on the road for the summer, you're facing the same things mentally, but you don't have the same flexibility in your schedule or time or what are my privacy or privacy to do what you need.
26:53
[SPEAKER_04]: If you feel comfortable talking about it, I know your partner in life is a life-long musician.
26:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Ketch has that felt helpful at all to be living life with someone who knows this unique lifestyle and has been doing it for a really long time.
27:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely, because we both kind of have the same struggles and the same things that we're excited about and, you know, we just talk about it constantly, like I think.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though it's, you don't want to be talking about your career with your partner all the time, like we're both so invested in what we do and like so passionate about it.
27:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are basically like always updating each other and what's going on, what we're worried about, what we're excited about.
27:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really helpful.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And just if I need a pep talk, he's always gonna like give me a pep talk with her, right?
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask for it or not.
27:41
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like a very good like cheerleader, which is for like his friends and his bandmates, too.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's why they've been able to do it for so long, but he's just such a big part of my support system.
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we understand that.
27:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like brushing your teeth, talking about a tour routing and like, you know, the release strategy I like just yesterday I was I showed him my flight and flying home from tour this weekend and
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to basically tell him, like, you can't try to micromanage my travel pants because he loves looking up alternate routes that would like that be their faster or like make more sense with routing.
28:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like obsessed with routing, so he actually did find me a better flight and then I was able to switch my flight and like this is how full of it.
28:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, are you sure you are okay with me looking because I just have to like, look and see.
28:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes I'm like no, I don't want to change my whole plan last minute and knowing my tour manager And that's in that.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, man that that resonates my mind like defaults like efficiency and like all I'm I still suck at it, but I'm getting like a little bit better Like I can like I can like buy my tongue and be like
28:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool, no, but it's totally beneficial because it helps me too because even like I mean, we've been together almost 20 years so I remember even like when we lived in New York City I'd be like, okay, this is what my schedule is today.
28:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to go to Williamsburg and then I have to go here And I'm thinking I'm going to like take the train or maybe drive and Aaron would be like, no, this is what you should do and like yes, thank you It's a blessing at the course That's so fun
29:13
[SPEAKER_04]: We have two children now, and I still want to tour an errands, thankfully, like he doesn't have any interest in touring, which makes our life easier.
29:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a lot easier.
29:23
[SPEAKER_04]: But my touring is not the way that it used to be.
29:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I won't, you know, go out on a three-week tour, whatever.
29:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
29:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of times it's piecing things together and like, is our whole family going to go.
29:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's so many additional logistics.
29:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And thankfully, he also is into routing and efficiency.
29:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So, but I love learning that about catch two.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, he's like so into geography, too.
29:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So he knows where every little sound is in like a real little airport.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, especially coming up the way.
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's crazy.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he did with his band.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they've played all of those small towns and driven all the respect roads and, like, yeah.
30:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I feel like it would be helpful to have just the perspective in your everyday life of someone who has lived all of the ups and downs of failures of like explosive moments and I would imagine I'm not that intimate with old crow's trajectory but times of kind of stasis or band.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: reinvention.
30:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, reinvention personal change because I think again one of the myths that were like constantly dispelling on this podcast that even people who've lived it are constantly having to re-centering as a music career is not a steady incline.
30:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so up and down.
30:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no guarantee if you have a great year that doesn't mean next year's gonna be great, right?
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:44
[SPEAKER_04]: it's not like being a doctor and just moving out of it.
30:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm probably going to have a doctor comment and be like, you don't know what it's like to be a doctor.
30:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, I used to really, as a side person, I used to relate it a little bit to being a doctor.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was like, constantly on call, like, waiting for my phone to ring, like, cool.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do that.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
31:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You work really weird hours.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You're working really weird hours.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody's in the paycheck.
31:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Super high pressure of no mistakes from those bluegrass fans that are mad at you for playing with Molly.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I did have to go to a lot of therapy because I thought the two shows that I played with Molly, the band was amazing.
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we step off stage and Molly would play by herself and everybody would just go absolutely crazy.
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't have to be here.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to be here.
31:29
[SPEAKER_04]: That's hilarious.
31:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
31:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Just thinking of like the stories when he would tour with stray birds and people would just be like, Oh yeah.
31:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Leave the drums.
31:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Please.
31:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, I literally had somebody again in the back parking lot of a show.
31:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We were all standing out there after a show and this person looks across me at Maya.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm in between this person and Maya.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This then he goes, does he ride in the van?
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Not sarcastic.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We not as a joke.
31:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Like seriously it was more in your high road in the van.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:01
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so funny.
32:02
[SPEAKER_04]: How shielded are you from comments or feedback from fans?
32:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you read comments?
32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Or are you?
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I read them a little bit like on, I am Instagram on my phone a lot of the time.
32:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I'll delete it just because I need a break, but all look at comments.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like if I see a main comment, it might hurt my feelings, but most of the time I just see positive feedback and then if I'm like struggling with it too much, I'll just kind of stop looking at it, I guess.
32:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I don't think I have like the world's healthiest relationship with social media, but I don't let it get me.
32:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm feeling too much or like a control.
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think like derails my life, but I probably could stand to look at it less Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think it through.
32:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I know anybody besides our child's preschool teacher who doesn't go on social media Who doesn't say I don't think I have a healthiest relationship
32:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all the lead it sometimes when I'm home, especially because I know I don't have to be like like on tour sometimes I like to do a little update throughout the day and just kind of post more candid stuff But then when I'm home I find myself just zoning out and looking at it too much.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, for sure I've been like on tour.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I just become sort of a robot anyway where I'm like after a while on the road I'm just kind of like me don't really care if I look at my phone all day
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when I'm whole, I want to actually like get into a good routine and stuff.
33:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is very difficult on tour if you're just sitting around either like in a van or even in the green room or something to just, yeah, unless you're so old.
33:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a really hard part of how to be like, okay, the 22 hours that you're not on stage of how to live that intentionally.
33:43
[SPEAKER_04]: When also you're playing a lot of the same songs and like putting on a show and how sometimes it can get the little robotic of just, okay, I'm doing this again.
33:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have any ways that you try and reinvigorate when it's a long tour and you're like, right, I've played this song a million times.
34:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm tired.
34:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I've stared at my phone.
34:05
[SPEAKER_04]: How do I reconnect here?
34:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this show itself for me, even if I've played a song a million times, it's still so much fun because I love connecting with the audience and it's like the little moments of spontaneity or the moments in between songs when I'm talking to the crowd or things that make each show special, but
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I just get nervous about adding a new song to the set and I have to really break out of that and try to push myself to take those risks and change the set list and try something new each night and a lot of times that keeps me on my toes more for the show and makes it a more energetic, exciting show.
34:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that always feels like a balance.
34:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes having,
34:43
[SPEAKER_04]: the same set can create freedom because you know like yeah I'm relaxed I know what's coming I know what kind of like stories I might tell if I'm on a tour opening for people I always feel a little self-conscious for the headlining act if they like hear me at all because I'm just like I'm locked into what this 30 minute set is.
35:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not changing it because I don't want to go over it.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really short set.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's just you don't want to go over your a lot of time by accident or go under by accident.
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just doing that on tour with Tyler Chilters because some of the sets I was doing 45 something that I was doing 30 but I just liked to have the timing then on so I didn't actually go over so I was pretty much keeping the set the same just because I knew the song length would be the same.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can also imagine that, you know, when you are support, you're playing to a borrowed audience.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So you find part of your catalog in your songs that resonate with their audience.
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, is having your own audience where you can, like, I'm playing my art.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You came to see my art.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, I would imagine that's part of it.
35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like if I'm opening for the Wood Brothers versus the milk carton kids, I play different songs of mine or like when I was on tour with the Wood Brothers, we were playing like a mix of big theaters and then rock clubs.
36:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And I remember it was a Friday night in Buffalo and their manager was like, just a heads up, you're gonna have to fight for this one.
36:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And all like what?
36:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was like, we've played Buffalo several times and it is a rowdy.
36:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I played Buffalo, maybe once or twice in the crowd was so much fun.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just shouting stuff for the whole time.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I was shocked because I don't think I'd played there before until two years ago.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no expectations.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, whoa, Buffalo goes so hard.
36:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:29
[SPEAKER_04]: This crowd was like, I was like, all right, I'm not going to play my slow songs or kind of trying to tell stories because they were like, they're ready to party.
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was just by myself.
36:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not like a...
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Leave guitar players, so I was like, I'm gonna play some up-tempo fun songs, because they were like, so there were bar fights happening by the end.
36:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, people were getting thrown out from like fighting each other.
36:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
36:53
[SPEAKER_04]: It's crazy.
36:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was wild.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wanted to tie a question about this shift from Golden Highway to like your new record and all of that.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And tie it back to like, you know, those are conversations about like reading the comments and then also about like team and all of that.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: How was your experience with that transition?
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know you had written the music.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You had recorded it.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You knew it was coming, but like,
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I would assume the audience is used to seeing a golden highway.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: They're shows that are booked for that.
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there's venues that really work for that music.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's venues that really work for your new music.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I guess I want to know too full.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how did you guys navigate that technically?
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, did your team have a good running start to set expectations all that?
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also, secondly, like, how has that been for you with the reception to like this new art that you've put out in this new creative vision that you've brought to life?
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt so excited and like just kind of reinvigorated by the new record and I feel like we did have to have conversations about like how do we create a middle ground between the show being so different and then also incorporating some of the material that I would play with Golden Highway like I didn't want to completely create like a totally new show from scratch and abandon everything I'd been working on before it so that's where like just pulling from the bluegrass
38:05
[SPEAKER_00]: material and maybe like reinventing some of it and doing some of it in a more acoustic way that help it just took us a little bit to kind of find that balance and like get the band fully comfortable with all the material and dialed in so yeah It was definitely like a learning curve, but I think we had so many shows and by the end of the year, I felt like it was just getting so dialed in and so exciting so
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I think going into our second year now, I'm like, okay, what new stuff can we work up?
38:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to mix up the set list more and more and still kind of keep that bluegrass element to it, but also be able to expand from there.
38:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I feel like the response people are sort of surprised, but I guess I toured with the bluegrass band for three years and before that, we talked about I played with drums.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I made a couple solo records that weren't bluegrass, so
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, it just felt kind of a continuation of my solo project, which is part of the reason why I came up with the band named Golden Highway.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to just differentiate my bluegrass work so that I could have that be its own thing, because it's such a big part of what I do.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if I make a solo project, I just kind of feel free to explore different genres.
39:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll make a solo album that's more bluegrass leaning than this last one next, but
39:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I did kind of like having the golden highway records feel like I was working with a set of genre parameters and really paying tribute to the music that I grew up with.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that idea of using like like a some moniker or a band name to really kind of delineate what is what and kind of set expectations with the audience.
39:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and for fans to be like, yeah, this isn't a left turn for me.
39:39
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a continuation of what I've been doing.
39:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I've focused on this for a little bit.
39:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm returning to this thing and also just continually growing as an artist.
39:49
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not limited.
39:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
39:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's really beautiful.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you had the same team for a while, Agent Manager and all that?
39:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've had the same agents for a really long time.
39:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I trim the thing when I signed on with them.
40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I might have had them for like eight years.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've had the same agents of work with my manager since...
40:08
[SPEAKER_00]: want to say 2021, maybe the end of 2020.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's all kind of blurring in my mind.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've had the same team for the last three album cycles, management-wise, and my booking agents were sort of my first puzzle piece that fell into place, and they were so helpful for me, like just kind of putting together the rest of the team.
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've worked with nuns such for three albums.
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I started with them on like Crooked Tree album.
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's about the time I started working with my managers,
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: are they equally on board for chasing down this variety?
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they like up for the challenge of like okay how do we market this?
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah for almost really excited like excited about the new music and you know trying to reach a new audience, not a new audience but like expanding audience I guess.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah I guess the business side of things it's like they're just kind of looking for like any opportunities that new music could bring and they're not trying to like keep me in one lane I guess.
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, amazing.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I've asked all these questions because it might perception a lot of people getting success with an approach with a record with a sound like I find that people and this is a generality, not everybody, obviously,
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is what works.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess this is my sound because it works.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't see you doing that.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So the support that you have for that is incredible.
41:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm in this of a situation.
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously have such a clear vision.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do this.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make this.
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like a creative exploration in the best sense.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we have.
41:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We're always talking maybe like one or two records ahead.
41:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even just today, we're like talking about two records from now.
41:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what am I gonna do next year after I record my next album?
41:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that just sort of sets everyone's expectations and the whole team is just kind of on board and excited to do the best they can to support the music, which is really, I feel really fortunate to work with such a supportive group of people.
42:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's been really cool.
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think
42:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Two, like coming from the Bluegrass and more like Americana roots world, people are just more in it because they love the music.
42:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:15
[SPEAKER_00]: People aren't trying to sell millions and millions of friends.
42:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
42:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you would love for that to happen, but I think in a way that does kind of weed out some of the like pressure of you have to do this certain thing, because we all need to make this much money or whatever.
42:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, there's more for you don't need to just be a artist and do what you want to do.
42:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then such, I know there's been a change of personnel, but it's still a lot of the same people that were there when I worked there.
42:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And that really informed for me the experience of, oh, like, working of record label is only as good as the people who are working there.
42:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you have people who are supportive and excited, obviously, while also having to manage business expectations.
43:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But when the foundation is in art,
43:02
[SPEAKER_04]: versus where a pop label that has to make millions of dollars, otherwise it's deemed a failure.
43:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It creates a lot more freedom and, in my opinion, better culture and music.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there are such good people over there, like, just super artist-friendly and I was always such a big fan of the label too before signing with them and so many bands that I loved that were on that touch.
43:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's been fun.
43:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Working awesome.
43:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you so much for being with us.
43:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we're on our way, we want to always be mindful of time.
43:33
[SPEAKER_04]: We always end with the same last question, which is a, you get to pick.
43:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And I always lob it over to Erin because my brain can't ever remember what they are.
43:43
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I blame my children for not sleeping.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds good.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's basically like a choose your own adventure either something that someone has told you or that you've read some kind of wisdom that has been imparted on you along your journey.
44:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They continue to resonate with you and keep you inspired and fill your cup or conversely something that you wish you knew back when you're not Berkeley and going to Sweden and starting to make a viable career out of your creativity.
44:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's so simple, but just trust your gut and always follow your own intuition on if something feels like the right decision or the right musical creative choice or business decision.
44:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That was something that I had to learn.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can have all these people telling you, like, this is what you should do, but if your heart is telling you something different, then it's probably better in the long run to trust yourself.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that something that you had to learn through action or?
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
44:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just not only thing that was crazy that happened, but, you know, there's times when you are like, oh, I actually really wanted to do that one thing that came up and I said no, or vice versa, like I said yes to this obligation and it's actually something I, my heart wasn't really in and that's tough when it's like a creative pursuit.
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
45:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to bring up the milk carton kids again, they were one of the first conversations we had on this podcast 150 something episodes ago.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And Joey had this great paradigm shift in what he said.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you know, when you're saying yes to one thing, you're saying no to all these other things.
45:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, oh.
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
45:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a helpful thing to remember.
45:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Regardless, you're missing out on something.
45:27
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you think you're like turning something down, you're saying, yes to all these other possibilities as well.
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Well Molly, thank you for making thumbs up.
45:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you guys.
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me.
45:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
45:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a good day.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We know your time is valuable and we're grateful you chose to spend this hour with us.
45:45
[SPEAKER_04]: If this conversation resonated with you, know that it is just one of many.
45:49
[SPEAKER_04]: We have an archive of over 140 conversations.
45:52
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're looking for a way to go to next, you can find curated playlists by topic on our YouTube channel or simply scroll back in the speed to find our conversations with Rosencash, New York Times by selling author Maddie Smith, Lucius, J.D.M.
46:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Fursin, and many others.
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: This show is produced by me, Mary Shavervace, with Help from the Kalaan.
46:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the music he hears written, performed and produced by me as well.
46:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Our show is edited and mixed by Leland Holden at Pod Punch, and we are proud numbers of a Bluegrass situation podcast network.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here.
46:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.