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From Self-Doubt to Self-Advocacy · Not All Business

• 0:00
  Welcome to Not All Business, a podcast by two former CEO's who
• 0:04
  went from competitors to friends.
• 0:06
  I'm Blakely Graham and my Co host is Heather Cooper and we
• 0:09
  are joined by our producer Clay Carnell, the on screen voice of
• 0:13
  reason. And today we're talking about
• 0:16
  the professional skill. No one teaches you how to brag
• 0:20
  without making everyone hate you or worse, ignore you.
• 0:30
  Thank you for the intro, Blakely.
• 0:33
  I want to catch up about our last week because it was epic
• 0:36
  starting this podcast. But first, you know how you were
• 0:39
  like sipping your water before we just got started and we have
• 0:43
  this like you hate those sounds. My daughter has you said it was
• 0:47
  like a a thing, like a diagnosis.
• 0:49
  Yeah. Yes, my daughter has that.
• 0:52
  I learned this morning she let me.
• 0:54
  She surprised me from college. It's really nice.
• 0:56
  Sat down at the end of her bed, not in her ear at the end of her
• 0:59
  bed, ate the rest of her bagel and she couldn't handle it.
• 1:03
  Mom, stop. I hate that sound.
• 1:06
  And I'm like, oh, Blakely has that.
• 1:09
  So what's it called? It's called misophonia.
• 1:11
  I actually thought you were talking about my dry mouth and
• 1:14
  the reason I drink sipped tea that.
• 1:16
  Sounds like a separate problem, but.
• 1:18
  It is a talking about a separate issue.
• 1:21
  Yeah, misophonia. It's a real thing.
• 1:22
  It's when sounds give you rage and it's it's true rage.
• 1:27
  And it's no one's fault. Why are we laughing, Clay?
• 1:32
  It's when sounds give you rage. It's when your brain interprets
• 1:35
  a sound and gives you a negative feedback.
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  It doesn't sound giving you rage.
• 1:40
  OK. Is this a protected category?
• 1:42
  Is this a disability like this? Isn't weird under 5 words Sounds
• 1:46
  make me rageful and so the worst offenders are like sipping.
• 1:52
  Like when my husband gulps his wine or his coffee or you should
• 2:00
  like that. Yes, I think tell your daughter
• 2:02
  that this happens to her. I used to have a recurring
• 2:05
  nightmare when I lived in Seattle.
• 2:08
  It that used to be called the like what was that?
• 2:11
  The Seahawks stadium. It was called the Kingdom.
• 2:15
  I have this dream where every seat was taken inside of the
• 2:19
  Kingdom and everyone was going all.
• 2:23
  Right. We definitely just lost 36
• 2:26
  listeners who also have misophobia.
• 2:29
  Misophonia. Misophonia.
• 2:32
  So you know what we address like, sticky situations on the
• 2:34
  show and how to handle them. And I want you and our listeners
• 2:38
  to know that I actually went to therapy for it.
• 2:40
  Oh well, now I feel bad. Well, you always should, but I
• 2:44
  went to one session. It was with my husband.
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  It's the one time we went to Marilla counseling.
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  And I'm like, I don't know what to do because I love my husband
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  very much, but he makes these noises and he needs to fix it.
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  Old lady, awesome. Like tell it like it is.
• 3:00
  Therapist. She's like, well, you have two
• 3:03
  choices. And I go like what she's like.
• 3:06
  You learn to deal with it or you get divorced.
• 3:08
  It's as simple as that. It was just like this way.
• 3:11
  That advice a while ago. OK, wow.
• 3:16
  All right, well. I'm sorry.
• 3:18
  I'm proud of you. That you sorry.
• 3:20
  For your daughter comments, especially with you sipping at
• 3:24
  the edge of her bed. You know, I didn't probably like
• 3:27
  get mess all over you too. I was.
• 3:29
  It wasn't pretty. OK.
• 3:30
  Anyway, Congrats on launching a new podcast.
• 3:34
  That was a big week. It was that was.
• 3:36
  So funny. More than I thought it would be.
• 3:40
  It was big and I'm always trying not to care what people think,
• 3:43
  but turns out I do care. You do what people think.
• 3:47
  I. Do we got one like thumbs down
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  and I was like. There's a hater out there did
• 3:51
  that. I can't stop thinking about it
• 3:53
  do. That on a first episode.
• 3:55
  Theory on WHO gave us a one star review on Apple Podcasts.
• 4:00
  Who A1 star rating because there's no review.
• 4:03
  There's no review if you're going to, if you're going to do
• 4:05
  one star, you know, say why. Yeah, but my working theory is
• 4:10
  that it was Hillary Clinton. I think that's who it was.
• 4:16
  Damn it, Blakely, I told. You she's.
• 4:19
  Sensitive about the. Yes.
• 4:21
  She's this poor woman. Yeah, you're probably right,
• 4:23
  Clay. We deserve it.
• 4:25
  We deserve that. I'll take that one.
• 4:27
  I'll take it. No, but the feedback was awesome
• 4:30
  and it's so fun. And I think having the feedback
• 4:34
  of people being like, yes, this doesn't exist, right?
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  Because I was like, I didn't think it, did I?
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  That's why we started it. And so to have the feedback
• 4:40
  confirming where's the business, but also just really fun real
• 4:44
  talk. Obviously Jamie's episode was
• 4:48
  very intriguing and like got a lot of good conversations going
• 4:52
  so. Good conversations.
• 4:53
  Yeah, I'm. I'm so excited.
• 4:55
  The response was awesome. Yeah, so it was a big week.
• 4:58
  I mean, we released the trailer, we released the podcast.
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  We had to get through our, like, scary, nervous feelings.
• 5:05
  But I'm feeling really excited. I don't know about you, Heather.
• 5:07
  Feeling good? I am too.
• 5:09
  I am too and we had to go on stage and launch it at Mile High
• 5:12
  Dreaming with Salesforce. That was really fun.
• 5:15
  Got a lot of good live feedback on stage.
• 5:18
  Questions on stage, but the biggest event of them all?
• 5:22
  It's like 6 months in the making.
• 5:24
  Guess who met? The husbands, yeah, we were
• 5:28
  like, OK, it's time. It's time.
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  I believe in this relationship. I want to take it to the next
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  level, introduce you to the people and yeah.
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  How do you think it went? Well, you were.
• 5:41
  Building it up for a long time, right?
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  Like you're like. Oh, they're going to love each.
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  Other like they're both in software.
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  Like they're like nerds. I don't know if you said nerds,
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  did you say? Total nerds.
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  I I know my husband's a nerd, but Nick's, you know, they're
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  kind of little nerdy. Massive.
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  Way big nerd, right? Like super big nerd.
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  So we were just she was building it up and sometimes I think
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  that's like a lot of pressure. Like I didn't really know like
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  Scott and first time meeting people, I just wasn't sure and.
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  It was awesome. What what we drank 6 bottles of
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  wine. I don't think we could say that
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  we drank a lot of wine. It just kept going on and on and
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  on. And our husbands, they fell in
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  love and but I did a little worried about it.
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  They did. They probably talked over an
• 6:33
  hour about romanticy or fantasy or science fiction.
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  Was dragon porn or dragon porn? Yeah.
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  It was dragon porn, which I didn't even know was a thing,
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  and now I'm all concerned about it.
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  Oh, oh, I almost. Forgot the best part of the
• 6:49
  night. I actually called up all my
• 6:51
  children and their friends. My daughter's boyfriend because
• 6:56
  we found out that Nick, Heather's husband, is the
• 7:00
  beatbox champion. Yeah, like nationally ranked.
• 7:05
  Yeah, it's a big reason of why I fell in love with him.
• 7:09
  And he delivered, didn't he? He performed.
• 7:12
  He did, yeah, in front of the the Jen's ears, Yeah, highly
• 7:16
  critical, by the way, all Pitch Perfect fans.
• 7:19
  And they were there was a positive response.
• 7:21
  We'll have to. Get.
• 7:21
  Well, of course it was. He's nationally ranked.
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  What are you going to do? Say yeah, he does.
• 7:27
  OK, Well, we didn't ask you to do that.
• 7:29
  OK, you're right. And that's fair.
• 7:31
  I mean, I've only heard good things about it, but I've
• 7:33
  actually never. Well, my question then would be
• 7:36
  to you, like when he goes to beatbox and people, like, do
• 7:41
  something, do your, you know, perform now, you know, like, oh,
• 7:45
  you're a comedian. Be funny.
• 7:46
  Yeah. He's already doing it before
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  they finish the sentence. He can't get enough of it.
• 7:50
  He loves it so much. OK, so attention.
• 7:52
  He wants it. Maybe for their second date?
• 7:57
  The husbands. The husbands?
• 7:59
  Yeah, Scott juggles fire. Yeah, this is Blakely trying to
• 8:04
  one up. You know how she's always like
• 8:05
  super competitive. My company was better than
• 8:08
  yours. Now she's like my husband
• 8:09
  juggles fire yours. Just the times with this.
• 8:12
  Man, it was part of their like thing.
• 8:14
  Like I beatbox, I juggle fire. Wait, let's hear her out.
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  Wait, What's the thing? What's?
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  What's going to? Happen.
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  I just thought they could do like a routine.
• 8:23
  Yeah. Oh, so you're saying now they're
• 8:24
  a performing duo? Yes.
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  So like it's timed, like the fire juggling, I say we timed.
• 8:30
  Yes, I say we keep this. We keep this in the back pocket
• 8:34
  if the podcast doesn't work out. We take our.
• 8:38
  Street clay to St. their own pod St. performing OK all right, we
• 8:42
  get back to the podcast. We got it.
• 8:43
  We got to get done to business guys.
• 8:44
  We got something really, really, really, really cool today.
• 8:48
  I am so excited to have this woman on.
• 8:51
  We met actually, I hired her. I was a client of hers at a very
• 8:56
  important time in my life and invited her to come on.
• 8:59
  She's changing people's lives daily through personal branding,
• 9:02
  resume writing. She opened up her own business.
• 9:06
  She founded Right Stuff Styles and we're going to talk to her a
• 9:09
  little bit about where that came from.
• 9:11
  Essentially, she's she's on the cutting edge of understanding
• 9:14
  what it means to create an actual brand for yourself and
• 9:19
  how are you communicating to the world, not just what you've
• 9:22
  done, but who you are. And so excited to have her come
• 9:25
  today and share with us everything she's been up to.
• 9:28
  Welcome to the podcast, Michelle.
• 9:34
  Hi everyone, Blakely here. This episode of Not All Business
• 9:37
  is brought to you by yours truly, where strategist Cindy
• 9:40
  Forgard helps growth minded leaders navigate pivotal moments
• 9:44
  with confidence. I worked with Cindy when I was
• 9:46
  CEO of Taskray and she's what I call ACEO Whisperer.
• 9:50
  She helped us execute a complete brand pivot, boosted me up as a
• 9:54
  leader, and set us up to hit aggressive growth targets that
• 9:58
  led to our successful exit. Whether you've hit a growth
• 10:02
  plateau or you're evolving your company, maybe you're at a
• 10:05
  career crossroads. Yours truly provides the
• 10:08
  strategic guidance you need. Because what got you here won't
• 10:11
  always get you where you want to go.
• 10:14
  So sometimes you need a Cindy to help push you forward.
• 10:17
  Visit itsyourstruly.com and mention Not all business for
• 10:21
  complimentary strategy consultation.
• 10:24
  OK, back to the show. Hi, thanks for having me.
• 10:31
  I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited you're here.
• 10:35
  Well, Michelle, you have been somebody, you know, you come
• 10:39
  across people in life and their colleagues, whatever you hire
• 10:42
  them vendors, but I feel like instantly you became a friend.
• 10:45
  I mean, you just keyed into exactly.
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  And maybe you, you know, I'm just realizing she probably
• 10:50
  treats all of her clients that way.
• 10:52
  But there's not that instant chemistry with everyone.
• 10:55
  I mean, I do try to treat clients well, but there is not,
• 10:59
  yeah, there is not that instant chemistry with everyone.
• 11:02
  There are people you just click with, OK?
• 11:04
  Well, that makes me feel better because I certainly felt it on
• 11:07
  my side. But it's a vulnerable thing that
• 11:09
  you do. I mean, you're helping people in
• 11:11
  transition. You're helping them pull out the
• 11:13
  most, you know, important kind of vulnerable things about
• 11:17
  themselves and teaching them a way to put it out there to help
• 11:20
  increase their brand. So not to put all the words in
• 11:23
  your mouth, but love to hear why you started the company.
• 11:26
  How did you come up with the name and what you love about it?
• 11:29
  Yeah, so I actually, I started my career in personal styling.
• 11:33
  So that's the fun fact about me is I started doing absolutely
• 11:38
  nothing to do with writing. And I always thought that I
• 11:42
  would blend my love of business and style.
• 11:44
  So I was a personal stylist. I worked at Nordstrom and really
• 11:48
  Nordstrom taught me. It was such a big foundation for
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  what I do now. And talk about that customer
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  service, it was a huge piece of how I interact with customers
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  and learning that level of interaction and that white glove
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  service that definitely taught me a lot about how I run my
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  business and. That's awesome.
• 12:05
  Did you get a? Discount I did.
• 12:08
  It wasn't great for my wallet. It was not great for my wallet.
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  I will I. Will tell my kids do not work in
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  retail unless you have another job.
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  Yeah, seriously, when I started, I actually believed that I was
• 12:22
  going to take over the company. 1. 100%.
• 12:28
  Seattle. And I kind of know I'm going to
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  humble brag here. Oh, my God.
• 12:34
  Enough with the humble. Oh, do you know the CEO of
• 12:36
  Nordstrom, too? OK, Why?
• 12:39
  Why? Tell me?
• 12:40
  I I want to hear why. I want to hear why you thought
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  you could take it over or would take it over me.
• 12:44
  Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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  I just thought I was going to work my way up.
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  And I was like, yeah, I'm going to be the head of I, I don't
• 12:50
  know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to work my way up and
• 12:53
  I'm going to, I'm going to eventually run this place.
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  And that didn't happen. But I learned a lot and I
• 13:01
  forever I'm grateful to that company.
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  Really. I feel that it was a huge part
• 13:04
  of me. And so from there, I went into
• 13:06
  recruiting and my mom was a recruiter and I always knew that
• 13:09
  I connected well with people. And so it felt like kind of the
• 13:14
  right move at the time. And that's where I started
• 13:16
  seeing people struggle with how to present themselves.
• 13:18
  So people were calling me, how do I present myself with this
• 13:22
  interview? What do I wear?
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  How do I dress? How do I make sure that I'm
• 13:26
  giving off the right message? And then in addition to that, I
• 13:28
  was helping people with resumes. And as a side note, I always
• 13:32
  loved to write and I was kind of always doing it on the side and
• 13:35
  helping people with this. And so in 2014, I started
• 13:39
  looking into it and I learned that I could get certified in
• 13:42
  resume writing. So I became a certified
• 13:44
  professional resume writer. And that's when I started my
• 13:46
  business, right Styles. And how that name came up is
• 13:49
  that my grandfather actually in the 80s had a sunglass business
• 13:53
  stylized. And he was the one that really
• 13:55
  taught me a lot about business. And I very distinctly remember
• 13:59
  him sitting me on his lap when I was little.
• 14:02
  And he was really the father figure of my life.
• 14:04
  I grew up with a single mom and he said you can do anything you
• 14:07
  want as long as you understand the business behind it.
• 14:10
  Like I want to support you to do anything.
• 14:12
  You can be an art you can cause I've always been very that's.
• 14:14
  So good. OK, wait, say that again.
• 14:16
  That's really, really good line. You can do anything you want as
• 14:21
  long as you understand the business behind it.
• 14:24
  Behind it. That's so good.
• 14:26
  We take our eye off the ball a little bit on passion projects
• 14:29
  and then just figure out like, but what's the business side of
• 14:31
  it? Because there's a, there is one
• 14:33
  obviously to everything. But to get a plan for that at
• 14:36
  such a young age for you to get that advice is amazing.
• 14:39
  Yeah, it was, it was very cool. And so it that really I knew
• 14:44
  from day one when I started college that I was majoring in
• 14:47
  business, like there was no trying to figure out what I
• 14:50
  wanted to do. And that's a whole other
• 14:52
  tangent. We could talk about that on the
• 14:54
  side that I do recommend taking other classes and doing other
• 14:58
  things because I was very like, I was on the way to my business
• 15:02
  major from day one. I started taking business
• 15:04
  classes, graduated early, like well, only a semester early, but
• 15:08
  I was on the ball taking all of my classes.
• 15:12
  And so I always knew that I wanted to do that.
• 15:14
  And that's really where it came in that I wanted to blend
• 15:16
  business and style. So when it came to starting my
• 15:18
  business, I wanted to I have a business name that meant
• 15:23
  something to me but also made sense, right?
• 15:26
  Styles make sense with what I do, but I also wanted it to be
• 15:29
  something that I could give a nod to my grandfather and I.
• 15:32
  Love that. That's so beautiful and great.
• 15:36
  Great sunglass name too. So, yeah, before we get into the
• 15:40
  resume, career transition stuff, I'm curious, when you worked at
• 15:43
  Nordstrom and you're styling people with clothes, tell me, if
• 15:49
  you know, how did that make you feel to see?
• 15:51
  Is there a story? Is there a time when you saw
• 15:53
  someone's face just like kind of light up or when they actually
• 15:56
  saw themselves in a new light with your help because they
• 15:59
  wouldn't have been able to do that without you?
• 16:01
  How was that for you? It was amazing.
• 16:03
  I mean, it's, it's easily the part.
• 16:05
  What I loved about styling is the same thing that I love about
• 16:08
  what I do now is helping people feel more confident in
• 16:12
  themselves and that outward image aligning with what people
• 16:17
  feel inside or how they want to present themselves.
• 16:20
  Because, and it's something that I tell people all the time, but
• 16:23
  it's really empowering when you think of the fact that you can
• 16:25
  actually take control of how other people see you, whether
• 16:29
  that's in the clothes that you wear or in how you write about
• 16:32
  yourself and how you present yourself in in your personal
• 16:36
  brand, but whether that's your resume, your LinkedIn profile,
• 16:38
  all of that. So it's not that there's
• 16:40
  necessarily one story, but I loved making people feel
• 16:43
  confident in what they were wearing in a way that is also
• 16:47
  attainable. Because I think a lot of the
• 16:48
  times you see these fashion transformations or style
• 16:51
  transformations. And at least with me, I often am
• 16:55
  looking at these going, yeah, but there's no way that this
• 16:58
  person is going to wear pumps on a daily basis, like to run after
• 17:02
  their three-year old. Like, I'm sorry, that's just not
• 17:05
  attainable. So it's it's a way to figure out
• 17:07
  how you can feel confident and present the right image while
• 17:11
  still making it fit into your life and fit into it in a
• 17:14
  sustainable way so that you can keep going back to it and make
• 17:18
  it part of an actual lifestyle instead of something that you're
• 17:21
  just going to fall off the wagon in a month or a week.
• 17:24
  That's beautiful. OK, I know you have a question,
• 17:26
  but this is going to drive me crazy.
• 17:27
  Let me just get it out real quick and then we'll go to you.
• 17:29
  I'm sorry, I just. I can't.
• 17:30
  I don't exist, Heather. Can I not ask a question on the
• 17:35
  show? This is my guest, this is my
• 17:39
  friend, this is my topic. Your friend as of 5 minutes ago.
• 17:44
  Gosh darn it. All right, you're right.
• 17:47
  Blakely, over to you. No, I'm just curious.
• 17:51
  And this blends the styling versus I'm assuming people come
• 17:55
  to you for resume help initially that I guess that's how I, I
• 18:01
  think I might seek you out 'cause I'm not necessarily the
• 18:03
  best writer and LinkedIn is like daunting to me.
• 18:07
  But I wonder is that like your, your, what do you call it?
• 18:12
  Like, what's that word? The, the, the lead?
• 18:15
  Yeah, you know, And then you like pull them in.
• 18:16
  You're like. The hook you.
• 18:17
  Need to actually work on the hook, but you could also work on
• 18:21
  your presence. Are you telling people after
• 18:24
  you've hooked them in that they might need a little presence
• 18:27
  work, whether that's physical or the way they carry themselves?
• 18:31
  Or are you waiting for someone to ask for that advice?
• 18:35
  Well, it's interesting that you asked that because when I
• 18:37
  started, my concept was a one stop shop for personal branding.
• 18:42
  I would do the physical, the clothing, the excuse me, the
• 18:44
  clothing styling and the resume writing and the interview and
• 18:49
  all of that stuff. And I actually offered styling
• 18:52
  services thinking that I could do all of it.
• 18:54
  And what I found over time, and this is another thing that I
• 18:58
  always talk about when it comes to a business is evolving with
• 19:01
  what your clients want. No one wanted me for styling,
• 19:04
  which is fine. They wanted me for my expertise
• 19:08
  in writing and branding. And I was like, you know what
• 19:11
  that works? I'm going to leave the styling
• 19:13
  to the full time stylist. But so and, and when you ask
• 19:18
  about do I ever give advice? I do give advice when I see
• 19:24
  someone that their LinkedIn profile is a selfie.
• 19:27
  Like I have people that come to me and I'm like, you're an,
• 19:30
  you're an executive. You don't need a selfie in front
• 19:32
  of the Christmas tree or like cropped out from the group
• 19:35
  wedding photo. Yes.
• 19:36
  What are like the top three like like do not do these for that.
• 19:41
  Kind of, but I also, oh, I will give you those.
• 19:43
  But yeah, I do try to be really aware because I also think that
• 19:48
  giving unsolicited advice, even if it's well-intentioned,
• 19:53
  depending on where someone is in that moment, like mentally,
• 19:58
  physically, all of that, it might be taken the wrong way.
• 20:02
  So I do try to be really aware of that because part of what I
• 20:06
  do is try to make people feel more confident.
• 20:08
  And the last thing I ever want to do is shatter someone's
• 20:12
  confidence in any way, shape or form.
• 20:15
  So while I'll say something to the extent of.
• 20:19
  I think we could be presenting you in a more professional light
• 20:22
  or I shamelessly will say you're an executive.
• 20:25
  We need something that actually makes people look to you with
• 20:30
  authority. Like I think that you would
• 20:33
  massively benefit from a professional headshot, something
• 20:36
  like that. I'm usually not going to tell
• 20:39
  them. I think that you could you could
• 20:43
  stand for some professional clothing styling.
• 20:47
  Good though. Even if I think so.
• 20:49
  Well, it's all about the the way you're delivering it and the
• 20:52
  goal is kindness and you're there to uplift them that way.
• 20:55
  So I think that's really good that you the phrasing is
• 20:57
  important. Yeah.
• 20:58
  But yeah, the top three things. Yeah, yeah.
• 21:01
  Let's do that. 1st, I wanna, yeah, I wanna talk about what
• 21:03
  you did, but yes, yeah, the top three things, yes, please don't
• 21:06
  have a selfie. You just said I want to talk
• 21:11
  about what you did, Heather, and I'm assuming did Heather break
• 21:14
  one of the top three? No, no, no, no.
• 21:15
  She was just talking about when she hired me.
• 21:17
  I want, yeah, I want to. Just tell sorry.
• 21:19
  But no. There's no, there's no rules,
• 21:21
  Heather broke. I almost.
• 21:22
  Broke one, I'll tell you that. OK.
• 21:24
  Yeah. Top three things.
• 21:26
  Yeah, the selfie thing. No selfie as a profile.
• 21:30
  I I don't want a picture of you cropped out of a group photo.
• 21:32
  Yeah, like I don't want a picture you cropped out.
• 21:36
  There are ways that, by the way, if you send part of what I do,
• 21:41
  sometimes I will do this. If someone sends me a really
• 21:43
  great photo of them, but I can tell that someone's arm has been
• 21:46
  cropped out or something, I will, I will Photoshop it and
• 21:49
  fix it and make it better for them.
• 21:50
  Nice. Because I'm like, we can do that
• 21:52
  now. Yeah.
• 21:53
  Is that easier with AI now to do that kind of thing or have you
• 21:56
  not? Found.
• 21:56
  Yeah, I think so. But this is not trying to fully
• 21:59
  eliminate someone. This is like if there's a little
• 22:01
  piece of someone's arm or something like that, that's a
• 22:03
  simple fix. I don't, that's a whole other
• 22:07
  topic. I think that you should look
• 22:09
  like your profile photo. If your photo looks super AI
• 22:12
  generated, that kind of scares me.
• 22:14
  It kind of puts me off. But everyone's different.
• 22:18
  And then what other? What are the other bad ones?
• 22:20
  Oh, the highly pixelated image. Like I'm sorry, but everyone now
• 22:24
  has a good phone. It doesn't need to be taken on a
• 22:27
  potato like you can take it from your iPhone.
• 22:34
  Have you never heard that? Is that like an old?
• 22:36
  Phone. I've heard that.
• 22:37
  Potato quality, yeah. Yeah, like potato quality.
• 22:41
  It's like a. It's like a.
• 22:42
  Like sometimes I tell people, actually more often than not I
• 22:46
  tell someone. I think the photo's probably
• 22:49
  fine itself, but we need something that's higher
• 22:51
  resolution because right now it's very pixelated on LinkedIn.
• 22:56
  That's good. Yeah, you do a lot of phrasing.
• 23:00
  I do, I try, Yeah. Yep.
• 23:03
  I mean, this is what I do. This is literally what I do is I
• 23:06
  tell everyone when they work with me.
• 23:07
  I said it doesn't have to sound right.
• 23:09
  That's what I'm here for. I am here to shape the narrative
• 23:12
  and tell the right story. So yes, when I talk to people,
• 23:15
  that's that's a huge piece of it for sure.
• 23:17
  I want to talk about shaping the narrative because so when I
• 23:20
  hired Michelle, it was after I'd exited Cloud coach.
• 23:23
  I took some time off kind of deciding what to do next and
• 23:27
  realized I needed a different look.
• 23:30
  I needed a different. I had accomplished enough and my
• 23:33
  profile was not reflecting it because let's be honest, who's
• 23:36
  getting in the weeds on reading all those paragraphs at every
• 23:38
  place you've done it needed a different feel to it.
• 23:41
  So then came to you ask for some help.
• 23:43
  And immediately she's like, well, you're a public speaker.
• 23:46
  And I'm like, not really. And she's like, well, how many
• 23:49
  speaking engagements and like panels?
• 23:51
  And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, I don't know, 3-4.
• 23:55
  She's like, yes, you're a public speaker.
• 23:57
  I was like, OK, I'm a public speak.
• 23:59
  And she's like, now we have to show people you're a public
• 24:01
  speaker. And I had done that back in the
• 24:03
  day. But it been like 10 years from
• 24:05
  like consistently getting up in front of larger audiences.
• 24:08
  And this is mostly all panel work, different than pull work.
• 24:14
  Tune into the last episode to see the difference.
• 24:16
  But I'll say that. So she, what she asked was like,
• 24:20
  I made a visual of you with a microphone in your hand.
• 24:23
  And I'm like, OK, so I go to my office manager and I'm like,
• 24:27
  what videos do we have of me holding a mic?
• 24:29
  I need them for my, you know, new profile that I'm working on.
• 24:33
  So she digs through all the company photos from the last 10
• 24:36
  years. Michelle will remember this.
• 24:38
  I'm like, they all came back on a table, like karaoke, dressed
• 24:43
  up like Santa Claus. I mean like there were no actual
• 24:47
  series except for user conference.
• 24:50
  Was it behind a podium? Was the only thing we could find
• 24:53
  and. We're going to link all of those
• 24:56
  photos in the show notes. We'll put all of those below so
• 24:58
  you can go check those out. Yeah.
• 25:00
  Don't worry, there's one where I was a melting snowman doing ice.
• 25:03
  Ice baby and at the end when it gets like.
• 25:06
  Too cold. So I'm on the floor with it.
• 25:09
  Anyway, she used the one that I could find and like, put it in
• 25:13
  the banner. It's there today.
• 25:14
  I haven't even changed it yet. So you you took out of a pile of
• 25:20
  basically put lipstick on a pig. I mean, it was like it was.
• 25:23
  Awful. That is false.
• 25:24
  I did not put lipstick on a pig. You did.
• 25:27
  I mean I. Helped you refine what you were
• 25:29
  saying, but and that's that's what I say to all of my clients
• 25:32
  and this is the truth. I don't do anything like I don't
• 25:36
  make those well, I do a lot, but I don't make those achievements
• 25:40
  for you. They're all there.
• 25:41
  I just work with what people have and make sure that we're
• 25:44
  actually showcasing those and showcasing what people want to
• 25:50
  tell the world. Because again, I can't pull
• 25:53
  information from thin air. And that's a really important
• 25:56
  distinction of what I do. It's working with what you
• 25:59
  already have to make sure that it's telling the story that you
• 26:03
  want to attract the right opportunities, but I can't make
• 26:06
  you do something that you don't do accomplishments.
• 26:09
  What's the balance of like telling the story, stretching
• 26:12
  the truth, making it look better?
• 26:14
  Like, because with resumes lately, I'm just like, are they
• 26:16
  just just all built for AI to like go through the system and
• 26:18
  they have all the buzzwords, but like, how much should I put into
• 26:21
  them? Because what, what is that
• 26:23
  balance of highlighting what you've actually done with making
• 26:27
  it sound better? And where's the line with that?
• 26:31
  Well, you definitely don't want to lie on your resume, first and
• 26:33
  foremost. It will always come back to bite
• 26:35
  you in the ass. Excuse my language, but it will.
• 26:38
  I had someone ask me completely straight faced.
• 26:42
  Well, I speak a little bit of Spanish.
• 26:45
  Can I put that I'm bilingual on there?
• 26:48
  No, No, you cannot. Absolute hard no.
• 26:53
  So there's that. Yeah.
• 26:58
  But so yes, you don't want to lie on your resume.
• 27:02
  But it is when I talk to clients, I always talk about the
• 27:04
  fact that right now in this current market, it's really
• 27:07
  about a balance because and it also depends on how you're
• 27:10
  applying. But generally when it comes to
• 27:12
  building a resume, it's about a balance that a computer gets the
• 27:17
  right keywords if your resume is put through an applicant
• 27:19
  tracking system and has keywords that align with the roles you're
• 27:22
  targeting. But also a human is the one
• 27:25
  that's hiring you. So a human has to be able to
• 27:28
  look at your resume and say, wow, Heather's done this,
• 27:30
  Blakely's done this, Clay's done this.
• 27:32
  I want them to be able to do this for us.
• 27:35
  And again, that's where it comes in that it's, it is different
• 27:39
  depending on how you're applying for, where if you're getting an
• 27:41
  internal referral or you have an introduction or you're
• 27:44
  networking with someone who's going to put your resume in
• 27:47
  front of the right person, you have a lot more wiggle room
• 27:50
  where you have someone advocating for you saying, I
• 27:53
  know this person, they're awesome, you should definitely
• 27:56
  take a look at them. So it's less about the computer
• 27:58
  at that point. But if you're applying online,
• 28:01
  then it's really important to capture that balance because
• 28:04
  when your resume is put through an applicant tracking system,
• 28:07
  and basically what that is, is it's a keyword parsing service.
• 28:10
  So a lot of people come to me and they say I need to make sure
• 28:13
  that my resume is ATS compliant. And they think that ATS is a
• 28:19
  specific program like Microsoft Word, and it's not.
• 28:22
  And ATS stands for. Something applicant tracking.
• 28:25
  System tracking system OK. Yep.
• 28:27
  And so that's what it is. It is a kind of system.
• 28:29
  It's not one specific system. There are many different
• 28:32
  applicant tracking systems, so you don't know what a company is
• 28:35
  going to use. However, it's a keyword parsing
• 28:39
  service essentially, so a real person is setting the
• 28:42
  parameters. I am looking for a product
• 28:45
  manager with 10 years of experience and experience in
• 28:47
  this software and this software. And that's what they're putting
• 28:50
  in based on the job description, so that when there are hundreds
• 28:54
  or thousands of applicants that come through for one job
• 28:58
  application, they can weed out people that have none of that
• 29:02
  experience. But where the the hard part of
• 29:05
  that is, is sometimes people do have that experience, but they
• 29:08
  don't have the right keywords in there or their document is built
• 29:11
  in a program that's not the, the tracking system is not able to
• 29:17
  read. And so that's where people get
• 29:19
  spit out. But I see a lot of this.
• 29:23
  I see kind of all the time, maybe more with women, but
• 29:26
  actually, no, I see it, I think just as often in men where you
• 29:34
  don't have the confidence to interview for these jobs.
• 29:38
  And So what I'm hearing you say, Michelle, though, is like you're
• 29:41
  taking what they've done and writing it in a narrative such
• 29:47
  that they realize you probably already have been doing this
• 29:51
  job, right? Like, you know, and how to tell
• 29:56
  your story in a way that you believe.
• 29:59
  Like, I can go apply for this job because I have been doing
• 30:01
  something like this. And I just need the I needed the
• 30:04
  words and the confidence to kind of walk in there and say that.
• 30:08
  But I wonder, and this is for the benefit of Heather right
• 30:11
  now, if the opposite can be true, where you have all of your
• 30:16
  humble brags that you want to get in, and how do you make them
• 30:20
  sound less like douchey? I'm sorry, are you asking her
• 30:26
  how to not make me sound like a douche bag?
• 30:29
  No, you always say. 'Cause you're you are humble
• 30:33
  bragging. You just told Michelle she
• 30:35
  couldn't be the CEO of Nordstrom 'cause you already know that
• 30:37
  person. No, you wouldn't let me finish
• 30:40
  the story. That's not true.
• 30:41
  I was just pointing out that your last name has to be
• 30:43
  Nordstrom to run Nordstrom. That's all.
• 30:45
  Whatever. I fully was not going to be the
• 30:48
  CEO of Nordstrom no matter what. So there's that.
• 30:50
  That was just not going to be a thing.
• 30:53
  Can you restate the question? There, there's just two sides.
• 30:57
  There's like the imposter syndrome that's like, I'm not
• 30:59
  good enough for this job. So here's the narrative to say
• 31:01
  like you have been doing it. And then there's like that.
• 31:03
  I don't want to like talk about my accomplishments because that
• 31:07
  makes me feel kind of gross, right?
• 31:09
  I don't want to be seen like, I don't know what the word for
• 31:13
  that is, like lame, like, you know?
• 31:15
  That's how I feel. You feel.
• 31:18
  That way. I feel that way about sharing
• 31:20
  accomplishments like. Oh, I thought you were going to
• 31:22
  say about me, and I was about to.
• 31:23
  Kick your. Ass, but OK, yes, yeah, you want
• 31:27
  to be more humble? Well, I don't want to get hired
• 31:30
  because I showboated my way into something.
• 31:33
  It's like I am proud of my accomplishments and there's
• 31:37
  things that I've accomplished that are worth mentioning.
• 31:40
  But when I've I had earlier this year, I was rewriting my resume,
• 31:44
  I was updating my website, I was going on LinkedIn like the
• 31:49
  scariest thing I've ever done in my life and figuring out how to
• 31:54
  navigate that is a social media website, But it's AI didn't know
• 31:59
  how to talk about my accomplishments in a way that
• 32:02
  wasn't no offense, Blakely, but humble bragging or, you know,
• 32:07
  how do I put my best foot forward and showcase that
• 32:09
  without essentially trying to be like a pick me type person?
• 32:13
  So, Michelle, how do you do that, You know?
• 32:16
  That's. One of the most common things
• 32:19
  that all of my clients face is that sort of struggle and how do
• 32:22
  I talk about myself? And well, one, the first thing
• 32:25
  that I always say is more often than not, if your friend did
• 32:29
  that, you will be all, wow, that's awesome.
• 32:33
  Look at what you did. We should celebrate this.
• 32:36
  You should. That's so amazing.
• 32:38
  But when it's ourselves, we don't want to talk about it.
• 32:41
  So that's the first thing. And also another thing to
• 32:45
  consider is it's kind of like intention.
• 32:48
  So if you intend to write someone a thank you note or say
• 32:51
  thank you to someone and you completely forget that person
• 32:55
  never knew that you were intending to thank them.
• 32:59
  It was if it's in your brain, and if it stays in your mind and
• 33:02
  you don't put it out there, then no one else knows.
• 33:03
  It's the thought that doesn't count.
• 33:06
  Exactly, exactly. I mean, if no one knows about
• 33:08
  your accomplishments, then they're not going to be out
• 33:12
  there. So while it can feel very
• 33:14
  challenging to celebrate what you've achieved, if you don't
• 33:20
  say what you've achieved, like say in your resume, and this is
• 33:23
  not having to be in a conversation of oh, I've done
• 33:26
  this, I've done that. Talking about yourself
• 33:28
  constantly in a conversation. But if you are not willing to
• 33:31
  say I have produced X amount of podcasts, I've worked with
• 33:37
  global brands, I have worked with two CE OS that stepped away
• 33:42
  and wrote their own story, you have to realize that everything
• 33:46
  you read, the person on the other end of it is making an
• 33:50
  assumption about it. So it's either you take control
• 33:53
  of the narrative and take control of the assumption that
• 33:56
  they are making, or you don't. And that's what I always like to
• 33:59
  say is everyone has a brand. It's just that not everyone is
• 34:02
  intentional about it and aware of what they're putting out
• 34:06
  there. That is so good that last piece.
• 34:09
  I mean, all of it was good, but like that last piece of you have
• 34:12
  a brand, you're communicating something so be in control of
• 34:15
  what you're communicating. And it wasn't until I had you a
• 34:19
  third party didn't know me from Adam to can we still say that I
• 34:23
  don't know whatever that you we've never met before.
• 34:27
  And you're looking at all of my experience and you're pulling
• 34:31
  out trends. You're pulling out highlights
• 34:33
  that I have just glossed over because I've taken them for
• 34:36
  granted. I've spoken to groups.
• 34:37
  My whole idea that's I'm not AI look at like Tony Robbins is a
• 34:40
  public speaker, right? Like it.
• 34:42
  But it's like the way you look at it, you're like, no, there's
• 34:44
  these trends and what are what's the threat of skills among these
• 34:48
  jobs? Where then we're going to put in
• 34:50
  your about me and the the skills that I in a million years never
• 34:53
  would have threaded together for myself and it.
• 34:56
  And it is it is uncomfortable to put it out there because it does
• 35:01
  feel like a brag to to Blakely's point, it does feel.
• 35:05
  And that's OK. Interesting.
• 35:06
  If there's ever a moment, that's the moment.
• 35:09
  Pick me is like, yeah, pick me like that's why we're here.
• 35:12
  Yeah. What's the hardest like story
• 35:16
  you've had to Polish? Like someone's without a resume
• 35:21
  or like I'm thinking, what do you do if like someone got
• 35:26
  arrested and they have to put that on their job application?
• 35:30
  She's asking for personal advice just by the way she's like,
• 35:36
  like, I have a friend who's been arrested.
• 35:39
  It could be a true story. No, it is.
• 35:41
  I have had people come to me that are like I I have something
• 35:45
  on my record. What do I do?
• 35:47
  Yeah. And well, my first thing is
• 35:50
  don't lie about it again. That will, that will be worse
• 35:55
  and be transparent that excuse my language, but shit happens.
• 35:58
  I mean, if you can say that you've learned from it, that
• 36:01
  you've grown from it, that you realize whatever it was was a
• 36:04
  mistake, you can't change it. I mean, you cannot change the
• 36:09
  past. And I personally don't think
• 36:12
  that it's worth trying to cover it.
• 36:14
  Maybe it's not the first thing that you lead with.
• 36:17
  Hi like accomplished felon looking for a job as a.
• 36:20
  Misdemeanor. Yeah, imagine that on your
• 36:23
  LinkedIn. Like right underneath like your
• 36:25
  name. Accomplished.
• 36:26
  Yeah, wow. Yeah, it might not be the thing
• 36:28
  that you lead with. I mean, they show up on
• 36:30
  background checks, right? And people do background checks
• 36:33
  now, so lying doesn't work. Exactly.
• 36:36
  That's what I'm getting at is you might not lead with it, but
• 36:40
  it's something that you say because I actually, when I was
• 36:43
  in recruiting, one of the reasons that someone got turned
• 36:47
  down for a job was because they lied about something that came
• 36:50
  up on a background check. And the company actually said,
• 36:54
  had they alerted us and said, hey, I just want to let you know
• 36:57
  that this was on here and This is why.
• 37:00
  And whatever happened, it probably we would have been
• 37:03
  fine. But the fact that they said, is
• 37:05
  there anything we should. Yeah.
• 37:07
  Is there anything we should be aware of?
• 37:09
  And the person said no, that ended up costing them.
• 37:13
  Yeah. Because it goes to integrity,
• 37:15
  it's always, it's going to be an integrity issue.
• 37:17
  What about social media accounts?
• 37:19
  And what do you suggest people do for, you know, younger people
• 37:22
  entering the workforce? Are they, what are they deleting
• 37:25
  things? Are they're hiding things?
• 37:27
  What did they do? So I came into social media.
• 37:32
  I was older, but it was still around when we were in the
• 37:35
  workforce. And my generation was the
• 37:38
  generation of posting 200 photos after a night out.
• 37:43
  Therefore, now the kids post nothing, which is probably
• 37:46
  smarter. So yeah, I did go through my
• 37:50
  social media at one point and delete a bunch of pictures that
• 37:53
  I didn't want out there. I think it's pretty safe
• 37:56
  information or a safe bet. And I tell people this, and this
• 38:00
  is the way that I think about it, is if you would be
• 38:02
  comfortable with your employer or friends and family seeing
• 38:05
  something, it can be online. If not, then it probably
• 38:09
  shouldn't be online. Just as a rule of thumb.
• 38:11
  This is not even about background checks or any of
• 38:14
  that, but really it's it's also about with AI and with things
• 38:17
  changing, what do you want online and how much of you do
• 38:20
  you want shared online? Yeah, and I think that'll change
• 38:24
  too. Like I try to.
• 38:24
  And my kids have been pretty good about this.
• 38:27
  But you know what you think might be OK today in like, Hey,
• 38:31
  girl, boss, go do this in 5-10 years might your brand changes
• 38:37
  with you. It doesn't say the same.
• 38:38
  It ages with you, it matures with you.
• 38:40
  But the Internet is for always. And so and you know, you have to
• 38:43
  be able to put yourself in a position to be flexible with
• 38:46
  your brand as you mature and not be locked that down.
• 38:50
  I mean, I don't I don't I've I've always heard once it's
• 38:53
  uploaded on the Internet, like you, you can't take it down.
• 38:55
  Is that? True.
• 38:58
  Or it it that is true, OK. I mean you can go.
• 39:02
  I mean, have it. So Michelle, how will do I tell
• 39:06
  the story without Heather going? That sounds like a humble brag.
• 39:10
  Because you do it every week. Or the humble brag.
• 39:12
  Every week we're just. We're going to do Humble Brag of
• 39:16
  the Week segments and welcome to this one.
• 39:20
  Go ahead. I know, I know.
• 39:21
  But I, I guess so having worked with the police force through
• 39:26
  some work, yeah, it is like one of the most rapid climbing
• 39:34
  crimes is basically blackmail for pictures, right?
• 39:42
  And those could be sexual in nature, but they could also be
• 39:45
  financial driven. There's, there's just a bunch of
• 39:47
  stuff, right, that that can kind of happen around it and they
• 39:51
  don't go away. I mean you can you can erase
• 39:54
  them and take them down, but they are always on a server
• 39:57
  somewhere. So I am very clear with kids and
• 40:02
  anyone like you have got to know what the second you text it even
• 40:07
  to your mom, it's technically. Totally.
• 40:11
  I mean, I will be the first one to say that, I swear.
• 40:14
  So it's out there and I think sometimes I mean what's.
• 40:18
  Done. Yeah.
• 40:21
  Are you? Are you fucking kidding?
• 40:23
  Well, what? You're not getting a job at
• 40:26
  Safeco Insurance Company I'll. Tell you, I know, but but at the
• 40:28
  same time, how I speak and how I talk on podcasts, would I
• 40:32
  necessarily say fuck that on LinkedIn in a big post?
• 40:36
  Probably not. And not that it's wrong, but
• 40:39
  that's not something that I would do.
• 40:42
  And I just like what you're saying.
• 40:44
  It's it's important to be aware of having a conversation with
• 40:48
  someone and saying, I often say to my clients when they ask
• 40:53
  about, for example, ageism, I always say there's always going
• 40:56
  to be an asshole out there that is ageist and thinks that
• 41:00
  someone's too green or too seasoned, but.
• 41:04
  Oh, I like seasoned. I don't mind being seasoned.
• 41:07
  Blakely, do you mind being seasoned instead of old?
• 41:11
  You don't like seasoned either? What do you want?
• 41:13
  Wise, wise experience. But you can be wise crunches.
• 41:17
  You can be wise and be young too.
• 41:19
  I mean, I don't. Want to get put in an oven?
• 41:21
  I don't know. I'm sorry.
• 41:24
  I'm just thinking of being more like by tea.
• 41:27
  Turkey dinner season? Yeah.
• 41:30
  OK, All right. Well, I have a couple.
• 41:33
  Heather's very. Spicy.
• 41:34
  Seasoned. I'm pretty spicy too.
• 41:37
  It's the red hair. All right.
• 41:40
  Last question I have. And then Blakely, you probably
• 41:43
  have a lot more since you've got a list that you didn't get to.
• 41:47
  But I want to know from your perspective, Michelle, where is
• 41:51
  AI taking us? You alluded to a little bit in
• 41:54
  the beginning, but where is it taking us?
• 41:56
  How is it impacting your work specifically?
• 41:58
  What should we be looking out for?
• 42:00
  What precautions are there? What should employers be
• 42:03
  considering when it comes to AI and they're hiring?
• 42:06
  How's it impacting your world? I use it as a tool.
• 42:10
  I recommend my clients to use it as a tool, but I think that
• 42:13
  that's exactly what it is, a tool.
• 42:15
  It's really helpful. For example, what I recommend to
• 42:19
  everyone is when you are applying for jobs and you're
• 42:22
  again, specifically online and you're blindly applying.
• 42:25
  This is important anytime you apply, but this is really when
• 42:28
  you don't have someone advocating for you, making sure
• 42:31
  that you have the right keywords and phrases in there.
• 42:34
  So looking at a job description manually saying what are they
• 42:38
  looking for? What do I have?
• 42:40
  In my experience, how can I align it with that?
• 42:42
  But then also putting that job description specifically, not
• 42:46
  your resume, putting the job description through AI and
• 42:48
  saying what are the five most important keywords in this job
• 42:51
  description that I should include in my resume?
• 42:54
  And then integrating those keywords in there.
• 42:56
  And between doing that and integrating the job title that
• 42:59
  you're applying for. So a rule of thumb, and one
• 43:02
  thing that I like to do, and this has come up specifically in
• 43:04
  the last couple of years, is I like to have a title up by the
• 43:09
  person's name. And then I like to have an areas
• 43:11
  of focus section or an areas of expertise.
• 43:14
  And so I find that putting the keyword or the, excuse me, the
• 43:18
  job title that you're applying for up by your name can help you
• 43:21
  get additional keywords to the job that you're applying for.
• 43:24
  And that can help when right now it's so common for different
• 43:27
  people to have job titles that don't necessarily align with
• 43:31
  exactly what they do or just job titles for the same thing have
• 43:35
  different titles. So putting up the title that
• 43:37
  you're applying for and then again, integrating those
• 43:40
  keywords into that areas of focus or areas of expertise
• 43:43
  section, it can allow you to cater your resume to a specific
• 43:47
  job without having to burn out and go word by word through the
• 43:51
  entire document. Because people come to me almost
• 43:54
  every single day and they say I am so tired of trying to cater
• 43:58
  my whole resume to every single job application.
• 44:01
  Especially in a time when it's a challenging market.
• 44:05
  You're likely going to be applying to a good amount of
• 44:08
  jobs unless you are using your connections and you have a
• 44:11
  referral or you have an in. If you're applying online.
• 44:14
  IT, I hate to say it, I wish I wasn't, but it's probably not
• 44:18
  going to happen on the first job.
• 44:20
  Yeah, it's, no, it's, it's brutal out there.
• 44:22
  So you said do not upload your resume, just upload the job
• 44:26
  description to AI? I do the job description OK.
• 44:29
  You can upload pieces of your resume.
• 44:32
  I would be hesitant about uploading my entire document to
• 44:36
  AI. I mean it's the same thing like
• 44:38
  what you were saying Blakely. Once it's in there, it's on a
• 44:40
  server. I probably wouldn't.
• 44:42
  That's why I like to use upload the job description that's
• 44:45
  already online and say how do I integrate?
• 44:47
  Like what are the words that I need to then integrate into my
• 44:50
  resume? And if you need help with some
• 44:52
  wording, you can always upload a specific bullet point and say,
• 44:56
  can you help me refine this or like upload pieces and use it
• 45:00
  again as a tool to help you. And that way it's not going to
• 45:04
  sound robotic. Because the other thing to keep
• 45:07
  in mind is I had someone actually asked me about this the
• 45:10
  other day and they were like, I'm trying to get into tech and
• 45:14
  AI says that I should Add all of this into my resume based on
• 45:18
  tech. But if AI will tell you to add
• 45:20
  experience that you don't have. So if you're saying, hey, I want
• 45:24
  to get into tech, can you rephrase this to align with tech
• 45:29
  jobs? It'll change it to say five
• 45:32
  years of experience working in tech adjacent companies or with
• 45:35
  tech adjacent products or whatever it is, even if you
• 45:37
  don't have that experience. So it's really important to be
• 45:42
  mindful of that. And if you're just not editing
• 45:45
  it without taking what it's spitting out, you could be lying
• 45:50
  on your resume, even if it's not intentional.
• 45:53
  Do cover letters matter anymore? Just because everybody knows you
• 45:55
  can just feed in the job description and then have it
• 45:59
  spitted out. What did you want to say?
• 46:01
  I'm going to say 100% they matter and here's why.
• 46:04
  And Michelle, you tell me I'm wrong.
• 46:06
  Or, I mean, you're not the expert, but go for it.
• 46:09
  No, but as like when you're hiring.
• 46:11
  Man or two. Miss a phony of dry mouth.
• 46:17
  When you are hiring someone, I feel like there's two
• 46:22
  trajectories. More often than not, they're
• 46:25
  coming in as a referral and that is great.
• 46:29
  If someone comes in as a referral, I'm really looking at
• 46:32
  their resume with a fine tooth comb.
• 46:35
  If they're coming through an ATS or coming through e-mail cold,
• 46:40
  I'm probably like throwing them in a folder, or if they have a
• 46:44
  cover letter I stop and read them.
• 46:47
  Even if it's AI generated now, because everyone can do it so
• 46:50
  quickly, they still. I mean, I think I don't know if
• 46:53
  I could sense the bullshit of AI or not.
• 46:55
  I think sometimes I can. It shows extra effort.
• 46:57
  It shows effort additional than just clicking.
• 47:01
  For me though, a cover letter. Cover letter isn't about how
• 47:05
  good I am for the job, it's about why I'm applying for the
• 47:09
  job or what I like about the company is like some personal
• 47:11
  story. And it has to be personal.
• 47:13
  And if it hits like that emotional trench, then to me
• 47:16
  it's as good as a referral. So that's good.
• 47:18
  Yeah, you're right. Highly critical.
• 47:20
  But now Michelle tell me I'm right or wrong.
• 47:23
  Yeah, no, I mean, So what I have found is that studies show that
• 47:28
  it's really 5050 whether people read it or not, and that you
• 47:31
  never know if someone will read it.
• 47:33
  But what I always say is you can only cater your resume so much
• 47:38
  to a job. Your cover letter is your
• 47:40
  opportunity, exactly what you said Blakely, to show why you
• 47:42
  want that specific job and not just a job because it you know,
• 47:47
  it's that's really. That's so true that you want
• 47:50
  that specific job versus just a job.
• 47:54
  That's really what I also say is that if you're not going to
• 47:58
  customize the cover letter, if you're going to send a generic
• 48:01
  cover letter that says hello, here's my intention for the job
• 48:05
  without any customizations, you're better off not sending 1.
• 48:08
  OK, I agree with you on that, Michelle.
• 48:10
  You're absolutely right. Don't send me like a cut and
• 48:12
  paste cover letter. That's what your resume is for.
• 48:14
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 48:15
  And then thank you notes to me are like, make or break it.
• 48:18
  If you don't send me a thank you note, even if it's just e-mail.
• 48:21
  I'm not expecting like handwritten thank you notes,
• 48:22
  even though those really, really stand out.
• 48:26
  Yeah, it's not an option. If I don't get a thank you
• 48:28
  within 24 hours of the interview, it's not happening.
• 48:31
  Really. Mm, Hmm.
• 48:34
  Yeah. Yikes.
• 48:37
  I do recommend people send thank you notes, but I know that
• 48:40
  people don't always do it. Yeah, they definitely should.
• 48:44
  I mean, you've taken your time. Your, I mean, I'm not saying a
• 48:47
  thank you note from a screening call, but if you've made it to
• 48:52
  where I'm interviewing you, humble brag, I guess.
• 48:55
  I don't know if you've made it to C-Suite interview, you should
• 48:58
  be following up with a thanks for your time today, really
• 49:00
  looking forward, Enjoyed the strategic discussion.
• 49:02
  Here's how I think I can be a value add because there's three
• 49:05
  other people who have sent me thank yous.
• 49:07
  If you're not one of them, it's not looking great.
• 49:11
  Should I be sending like a flowers and a charcuterie board?
• 49:15
  No. Are you asking for a thank you
• 49:17
  from dinner Saturday night? I probably should have think I
• 49:20
  did. I sent you a thank you text.
• 49:22
  I said. I sent you a thank you text.
• 49:25
  No, you said something like, oh, I think we have like a couple
• 49:28
  bottles of wine. And I showed her a picture of my
• 49:30
  recycling bin where we went through 7 bottles. 6/6 and 1/2
• 49:35
  that was. 7. There was a lot of people there.
• 49:38
  There's all four of us. OK, we got to wrap up.
• 49:41
  I we, I feel like I could talk to you for hours and hours and
• 49:44
  hours. Blakely any I feel.
• 49:45
  That way too. Yay, Any last minute dying
• 49:49
  questions you can't leave unanswered?
• 49:51
  Clay Blakely. No they would be self-serving.
• 49:54
  I just wanted to call Michelle and get my LinkedIn updated.
• 49:57
  Blake Blakely is not at work. We're laughing because Blakely
• 50:04
  is very well exited out of her company.
• 50:07
  She's doing just fine. OK.
• 50:09
  Yeah, I think so. I think all of you on this call
• 50:11
  are. Well, I really appreciate you
• 50:14
  taking the time. I mean, we've covered so many
• 50:17
  different topics here, so I won't even try to summarize it.
• 50:20
  But really what hit home for me at the end of the day is that
• 50:24
  it's really important for us whether we're mid career,
• 50:28
  whether we're changing careers just to not skip over the
• 50:32
  importance of our personal brand because it exists and we're
• 50:36
  communicating something one way or another.
• 50:38
  So first, seeing the value in ourselves and understanding that
• 50:44
  the world needs to know what that is and how are we
• 50:46
  communicating that through the written word, through how we're
• 50:51
  speaking in these different environments, what we're
• 50:54
  wearing, how we're showing up. All of those things are
• 50:58
  communicating something. So be mindful of it when we're
• 51:01
  making these decisions. Give it the time that it
• 51:03
  deserves. And if you need help, we have
• 51:08
  Michelle here more than willing to to help and guide you in that
• 51:12
  way. And I will tell you from
• 51:13
  personal experience, she's very reasonable but reasonably priced
• 51:17
  and it's fair and it's worth every single penny.
• 51:22
  Even after you find a job, like I will keep using you as I
• 51:25
  continue to mature and season myself through the rest of my
• 51:31
  career. All right, we're going to wrap
• 51:33
  up with a question that we that we ask all of our guests before
• 51:37
  we let you go. And we answer it too.
• 51:40
  The question is what brought a smile to your face this week?
• 51:43
  Clay, I think I'm going to know yours.
• 51:46
  Do you want to go first? I feel like it was maybe today.
• 51:49
  I might use yours if you don't use yours if.
• 51:52
  I smile to all of us. OK, you start.
• 51:55
  Yes. So today was my son's first day
• 51:58
  of kindergarten. So that brought his mouth to my
• 52:00
  face. And a couple tears, I would
• 52:02
  imagine. Yeah, I you texted me that.
• 52:05
  Did you cry? I was like, it was like,
• 52:06
  congratulations. Did you cry?
• 52:09
  And I was like, yeah, I did. But it was, you know, when
• 52:12
  you're kind of, you're kind of in it and like you're figuring
• 52:15
  out a new system You don't really like all the feelings
• 52:19
  don't hit you right away. For me, they don't hit me right
• 52:21
  away. And so throughout the day, I
• 52:23
  would just be like, I'd see like 11:00.
• 52:26
  I'm like, OK, I know he's eating lunch in about 15 minutes or so.
• 52:30
  Like that would hit me. And that would be, that would
• 52:32
  bring on a little bit of something.
• 52:34
  And then I would just kind of experience it in waves like
• 52:37
  that. That's how it works for me.
• 52:38
  But I, if I can share quickly, my wife would like driving away.
• 52:42
  It hits her immediately. I mean, just not like
• 52:45
  waterworks, but just, you know, deep breathing and like it's
• 52:49
  hitting her. I'm like, I'm like trying to
• 52:50
  drive and I'm like, it's good, It's cool.
• 52:52
  It's all good. Like we're fine.
• 52:54
  Like it's all good. It would.
• 52:55
  Just stop crying. Yeah, I was like.
• 52:58
  Telling her to calm down will help a lot.
• 53:00
  Yeah, yeah. I did not say that.
• 53:02
  I did not say that. Yeah, that does not work, not to
• 53:04
  say that. Yeah, no, does not work.
• 53:07
  Yeah, but thank you for asking. You're who's next?
• 53:09
  Who's next you? Want me to go?
• 53:12
  Sure, yeah. This sounds cheesy, but actually
• 53:16
  being on this podcast brought a smile to my face really being I
• 53:20
  really at the heart of sounding really lame and cheesy, but I
• 53:25
  love this this. You all are hysterical.
• 53:28
  I had so much fun doing this. But also coming full circle, I
• 53:32
  started this in 2014. I started my business and I talk
• 53:36
  about this sometimes when I speak to emerging professionals
• 53:41
  and I speak at universities sometimes.
• 53:44
  And I didn't know anyone in a service based business and I
• 53:48
  really didn't know. I didn't have a group of peers
• 53:53
  or women or other professionals that I felt that I could bounce
• 53:58
  ideas off of or ask questions or have these conversations.
• 54:02
  Not all business, but somewhat business.
• 54:05
  And I really, I didn't feel like I had any of that.
• 54:07
  And so I feel very grateful to be on here that you asked me to
• 54:13
  be on here, but also to just have these conversations and
• 54:17
  answer these questions and put this information out there to be
• 54:20
  a resource for someone else that might have similar questions.
• 54:23
  I just, I think that's so awesome and I am very happy to
• 54:26
  be here. I think that's hands down the
• 54:27
  best answer we ever got. I don't know what.
• 54:29
  Would you? What would you get?
• 54:30
  Testimony. That's the one to beat.
• 54:32
  That's. The one, yeah, I don't know if I
• 54:33
  can be. Maybe that's a good place to
• 54:35
  end. No, thank you, Michelle.
• 54:37
  That's that's incredible. No, I I would not say it if I
• 54:40
  did not mean it. Yeah, I'm not someone that.
• 54:42
  Thank you. Puts fru fru on things.
• 54:45
  I kind of say it how it is. That's why you're so good at
• 54:46
  your job. All right, blakers.
• 54:51
  Oh no, that's not my nickname. Yeah, Yeah, it is.
• 54:55
  We're working it out. We're working it out the
• 54:57
  Blakers. Well, I introduced a new puppy
• 55:02
  into our lives and her name is Stevie.
• 55:05
  She's like 10 weeks old now and I have a smile on my face
• 55:10
  because Jovi our four year. Old puppy named after Bon Jovi,
• 55:15
  which is fuller. Has finally accepted Stevie into
• 55:20
  her life. Yay I.
• 55:22
  Love it, your kids are getting a lot.
• 55:24
  On a hunger strike she would like not get on the bed when
• 55:28
  Stevie's on the bed and now they're like besties and they
• 55:31
  snuggle up and. That's like our husbands.
• 55:35
  That's what brought a smile to my face was our husbands when
• 55:37
  they were like, one would jump in the bed and then the other
• 55:40
  one and they're like besties, like snuggling.
• 55:43
  It was such a great time. No, it really is a smile on my
• 55:46
  face though. The night with you, it was fun.
• 55:48
  It was good and. Shocking how well they how well
• 55:53
  they got along. Smiles all around.
• 55:56
  Sorry for the click of the pen. OK, I think that's it.
• 56:00
  We did a good job. I don't.
• 56:03
  I don't know how to. I don't know how to end this.
• 56:06
  Cut that. We did a good job.
• 56:09
  Brag Winner of the day. OK, thanks everybody.
• 56:13
  This was so much fun. Huge thank you to Michelle Lando
• 56:16
  from Wright Styles for joining us today and teaching us so
• 56:19
  much. Really appreciate it.
• 56:21
  Everybody who's listening, we remember that we are a video
• 56:24
  podcast. And if you're not watching,
• 56:26
  you're you're missing out. You're missing out on some
• 56:28
  silent gestures, occasionally some rolling of the eyes, you
• 56:33
  know, all kinds of nonverbal communication, which don't
• 56:36
  forget is 80% of communication. So please subscribe to our show
• 56:40
  Go, Spotify, Apple podcast, YouTube, wherever you listen.
• 56:44
  We'd love to have you follow us along.
• 56:46
  Thank you. Click, click, click, click.
• 56:48
  I know, I know. I got don't love me a clicking
• 56:51
  pen.