Latest / Coopers' Code / Ask an Adjuster: What Moves the Number in Claims ft. Peter Kirk

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Ask an Adjuster: What Moves the Number in Claims ft. Peter Kirk · Coopers' Code

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The most common case I see is it's a clear liability accident.
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They have an attorney from the very beginning.
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They go to a chiropractor within three or three weeks or so.
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They're ordering Mr. IS, which is really early in a case to
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order Mr. Is. Then they're getting referred to
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pain management, They're getting injections, and the injections
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are costing between 10 and $20,000 per injection, including
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the surgery center. And then they're getting get a
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get a Doctor Who says that they're a surgical candidate,
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though that's the most common cases that I'm seeing.
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From my perspective, if that person truly is a surgical
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candidate, that's fine, and if they are not and it's being done
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to drive the value in the case, that's awful.
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Well, and that's my job to figure out which ones I think
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are legitimate and which ones we have to fight.
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I mean, that's part of what I have to do.
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Howdy and welcome to the show. Cooper's Code focuses on legal
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issues and notable practitioners, distilling wisdom
0:59
so we all achieve the best results for our clients.
1:02
I'm Miles Cooper and I'm very excited for this conversation
1:05
with Peter Kirk. Peter is a career claims
1:07
representative with decades of experience helping manage risk
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and assess the value of claims made.
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We explore the claims process, what makes and breaks claims,
1:16
ironing out communications and misunderstandings between
1:19
plaintiffs, lawyers and the carriers, and what it looks like
1:21
when one side or the other miscalculates the risk.
1:24
Peter sees his claims all the way through.
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He's been over 50 tiles to watch the outcome when the sides were
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unable to reach settlement and has come to know more than just
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a little bit about how juries look at cases.
1:36
So please sit back and enjoy this conversation with Peter
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Kirk. Welcome to the show, Peter.
1:43
It's a pleasure to be here. I big fan of the Cooper's Code
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podcast. I think you do a great job.
1:48
Thank you. Thank you.
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Well, I was really excited when your your name came up because
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we've never had somebody in your role on the show and and we like
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to keep things fresh. And so I'm really appreciative
2:00
that you're willing to come on. I want to make sure that we
2:02
cover at the very beginning that while you work in the claims
2:06
world that you are here in your individual capacity and any
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opinions or any views, any, anything you share with us is in
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an individual capacity, not on behalf of any company that you
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have worked for, is that correct?
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Correct. OK.
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I think we covered that appropriately that, that the
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corporate governance people at your, your insurance company
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will be, will be satisfied. But with that, I, I, I typically
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go chronologically and, and I'd, I'd love to get a little bit
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about who you are and, and what brought you into the claims
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world. Well, a little bit about maybe
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where I grew up. I grew up in San Francisco, one
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of seven kids my mom and dad met in college.
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My mom grew up in Saint Paul. She came out to California to go
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to Stanford. My dad went to Menlo College
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next door. He'd grow up in Montana till 12,
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then moved to San Jose and then my mom moved back to Washington,
3:03
DC after she graduated. My dad was in the went into the
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the Marines and as an officer and then they eventually got
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married and I my three older siblings were born, I believe in
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Indiana, Washington and the East Bay.
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And then they bought a house in San Francisco on the Ingleside,
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and that's where where I grew up.
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My mom and dad got divorced when my youngest sister was a baby.
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My dad was an alcoholic. And that was when my mom was 39.
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She went back to school at USF and got her teacher credential.
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And for 25 years she supported all of us as a single mom, as a
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high school librarian and teacher down the daily city and
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Pacific area. My dad, unfortunately, at age
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46, passed away from cirrhosis of the liver.
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So we were very close family, but it was just my me and my six
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siblings and my mom. I'm sorry you went through that
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experience. It sounds like she must have
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been. Or is she still with?
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No, she passed away 15 years ago.
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Sounds like she must have been an amazing person to to take all
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that on. She was and family was
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everything to her. So whatever we were doing, we're
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always getting invited for all the different events, birthdays,
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holidays, everything. She always wanted us to be
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together and that was she always made a real point and sacrifice
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a lot for all of us so that we, you know, we, we would have a
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good life growing up in San Francisco.
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The San Francisco question always is where did you go to
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high school? I went to Lincoln High School in
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the Sunset and when I was going to school and growing growing
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up, the public schools in San Francisco were not great and
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they also had forced busing. So I was forced to go from 4th,
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5th and 6th grade all the way out to near the Cow Palace to a
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school called Guadalupe. But I ended up going to Lincoln
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for four years, graduating from Lincoln, and when I was in at
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Lincoln, I played high school basketball my junior year and my
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sophomore year, and then I ran cross country and track in 10th,
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11th and 12th grade. I quit playing basketball after
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my junior year because I came to the realization that I was a
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much better runner than basketball players.
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We had a very, very good team. I think my junior year we
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started out 17 and O what I was truly the worst player on the
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team. But but it sounds like you were
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a pretty fabulous runner. I love running.
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My senior year I was the city champion in the 800.
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And then just a couple other little things about me growing
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up is because we didn't have a lot of money.
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I had a paper out starting at 12 for four years, the Examiner and
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then I worked with the YMCA as a camp counselor for 4/4 summers,
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the YMCA in San Francisco and Stonestown and then the
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Peninsula Marin had a joint effort down on the Santa Cruz
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Mountains called in La Honda, called Camp Jones Gulch.
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And I would go down there for the summer as a camp counselor
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with kids from 8:00 to 12:00. And I, I just truly love doing
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that. Any of that experience inform
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where you went with your career or anything about what you've
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done? A little bit in that my mom
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didn't have the money to pay for me to go to college.
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I was going to have to pay for myself.
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So my, my option was my only option I felt unless I went to
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the JC is well, actually I didn't say my only option, but
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the option I chose was to go to San Francisco State.
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And ironically enough, San Francisco State was closer than
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any other school I went to growing up from where I where I
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grew up. But I eventually moved out at
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one point during college with my brother.
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And so I knew I went to San Francisco State as a business
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major and I knew I wanted to run there.
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So I ran track and cross country for four years.
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And my life in college was I would go to school on Monday,
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Wednesdays and Fridays. I would work Tuesday, Thursday,
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Sunday 8 hours a day and then I would run 40 to 60 out miles a
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week. Wow and and and not the numbers
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are everything but my understanding is you ran a 411
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mile. I ran a 354-1500, which was my
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my junior year, which is of equivalent to about a 411 mile
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because you don't run the mile in college, and I ran a 152
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half, which were both. I was very proud of myself.
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I had set a goal when I was a freshman.
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I broke both school records and I won the conference
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championship my junior year, which is at was in Turlock at
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Stanislaus State for the the the conference ran and I finished
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third as a as a senior. San Francisco State was a
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commuter school so it gave me a sense of belonging and we we had
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a coach there, our crack coach. It was a wonderful role model
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for me. He was a young first time head
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coach and he was there for 11 years.
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All four years I was there, very competitive, very much a
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motivator. We were a division two non
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Starship school, but we took it very seriously.
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And his my coach Harry Mara later on in his career coached
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Ashley into the world record in the decathlon in the 2012 in
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London, 2016 in Rio, gold medal in the decathlon.
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So he he was a, a really good role model for me.
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Pivoting to post college, did you find yourself right out of
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the gates working in the insurance industry?
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Yeah, so I had had a memory of an interview with an individual
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in downtown San Francisco who gave me an informational
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interview for an hour and a half who worked at Liberty Mutual.
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And what really was interesting about it for me was he was
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explaining me about trials. And he he would explain in that
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he kind of monitors trials and figures out if he needs to go to
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some of them. He sometimes goes and watches
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some of the trials. And so I thought that was very
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interesting. So what I did was I did some
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research on different insurance companies because I was
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interested in becoming a claims adjuster and I found that
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Farmers Insurance where I was interested in working with a
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california-based company and they had an office in San Bruno
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close to where I live. And both of those things were
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important to me in deciding what to do.
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So I just called the local office.
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There was no job, no job listing.
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And I asked for an interview and I got hired 2 weeks after I
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graduated from from college on June 18th, 1987 and I've been
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working there ever since. That kind of brings us in I I
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have I have some notes here. I I understand you're just about
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to do to celebrate your 39th anniversary working claims
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correct and and and all at farmers the entire time.
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Not only all at farmers, but all handling litigation in in
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Northern California and now all of California.
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Wow. So I've kind of, I'm kind of a,
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an unusual because so many people and claims have left the
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state and I've not only stayed here, I've tried to go to all my
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trials in person, which is pretty cool because I've had the
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opportunity to do that because I'm, I'm not like out of state.
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And so, yeah, I'm, I really enjoyed the fact that I was here
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the whole time. And we'll get into, I think some
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of the ways where, you know, I'm going to say that that
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reasonable minds have differing opinions and, and how you end up
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in trial as opposed to resolution.
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But it sounds like you've been, you've had the opportunity to go
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to over 50 trials in terms of of monitoring what's going on.
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Well, those are the, I've had that many on my own also, like
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for example, in the the last two trials I went to, I went to a a
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trial last summer for three weeks in Moran for one of my Co
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workers. It was an auto, auto versus
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bicycle traumatic brain injury case and she was out of the
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area. So I volunteer, I'll go to any
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trial. I'll volunteer to go to any
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trial because going to mediations and going to trials
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is my the brings me joy and happiness the most out of
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anything I do in my job. I'm just kind of like a, a nerd.
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And, and then the trial before that was another one of my Co
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workers. And it was, it was in the
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Martinez courthouse and I was there for three weeks watching a
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an auto accident and with a back surgery and whether it was
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related to the car accident or whether it was something that
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was not. So when you describe mediations
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and trials as being your favorite part of of your work,
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why is that? Well, when I first started
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getting involved in litigation, I started at the office handling
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just property damage claims. But within nine months of this
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office in San Bruno that I was working at, I was given a
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tremendous opportunity to take on all sorts of interesting
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cases and litigation and non litigation, but mostly in
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litigation. So I was handling wrongful
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eviction cases. I have a memory of a
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construction defect settlement, I mean mediation at the Palace
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Hotel with like 40 parties there.
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And I'm going, this is crazy. There's forty parties here and
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this is all this one lawsuit. And I have a memory of being at
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the the courthouse when the Loma creator in 1989 earthquake hit
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in Redwood City and it was rocking back and forth.
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It was at the end of the we were just about to leave because it
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happened I think at about five O 4 and I have a memory of being
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in San Francisco having a wrongful death claim and getting
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the police reporting going to knock on the door are insured
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was a a van a moving company and they the driver was up high and
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did see someone crossing in front in a crosswalk hit a
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pedestrian. They were, they were
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unfortunately passed away. It was a horrible situation.
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And I and I remember knocking on the door to introduce myself and
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get in a, a card from Melvin Bellai's office, which I thought
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was funny. Wow.
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And then early on in my career at that time, there was
12:52
something that came out, jury verdicts weekly, I remember and,
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and I loved it because it would go over the facts of the case,
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the lawyers involved, the experts involved, what happened
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in the verdict. And I would learn like what
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types of cases were the most likely to go to trial, what
13:11
types of verdicts were happening and what type of who was using
13:14
what experts. And that really got me
13:17
interested. I think it was, I like
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competition. So I like litigation because of
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the competition aspect of it. My, my feeling is always, I want
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to make a fair offer. There is always a difference of
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opinion about what's fair. And then if I can't resolve it,
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then I want to try. And if we have to go to trial
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because I don't want to go to trial unless we have to.
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But some cases are no liability cases to me.
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And maybe I'm forcing the issue. So I'm not trying to say that I
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don't ever want to go to trial, but it was the competition
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portion of the of the trials. And then just being a nerd about
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how interesting I find them even to this day if I just love going
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to watch trials. I'm old enough to remember jury
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verdicts weekly and it's blue cover and the way it would show
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up in the mail and how that eventually became verdict
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searched. Are you, do you still consume
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that kind of information or on a regular basis?
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Not like I did then, but I do hear about verdicts, you know,
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and then I, I, I look into them and, and, and also I'm on
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LinkedIn and I read about some verdicts on that and what
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happened on, on that from different people who, who I, who
14:19
I follow, but I don't get something as specific as jury
14:22
verdicts weekly. And I really like that
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publication. Yeah, I, I, I miss the way it
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was so those used to be passed around the office.
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And I miss the way it was far easier to, you know, when it was
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in print to, to hold on to and, and, and find.
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Right. So.
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So as a young claims adjuster, can you describe what it was
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like to start making decisions about cases and working with
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defense lawyers? And and because my questions are
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too many questions within the question, was farmers all in
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house at that time? Were you dealing with in house
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people for as attorneys or were you were managing outside people
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too? So when I started in in San
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Bruno, we had house counsel in the East Bay, but we did not
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have house counsel on the Peninsula in San Jose.
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So there was a couple of of defense firms the the Ropers
15:14
Majeski and the Clap Maroni firm that were that is I was working
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on from very early on and also with outside coverage counsel on
15:21
different things and also with in house, it was a combination
15:25
of both that I dealt with. So and I handled the Bay Area at
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that point and and including the East Bay and the Peninsula in
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San Francisco. OK.
15:38
Were there certain lawyers who you ended up working with more
15:40
frequently? There were and also like I think
15:46
one of my jobs when I have a case, one of my jobs is to
15:50
figure out if the right person's on the case for the exposure and
15:53
the type of case that it is. You never really know what case
15:57
is going to go to trial. You have to be prepared.
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I feel like one of my main jobs is to make sure I have the right
16:04
attorney based on the facts and the exposure of the case.
16:08
So I would start getting to know people and then getting to know
16:12
who I needed to use based on the case and the exposure.
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What types of things would you consider when trying to match
16:23
the right lawyer with the right file?
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If I thought it was a possibility going to trial,
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obviously we I had has to go to someone who I have confidence in
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the case. And so it would have like a a
16:35
formula in my head about like all these different things that
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I think about, like what's the venue?
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What are the injuries? Who's the attorney on the other
16:42
side? What what happened in the
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accident? What type of witnesses do people
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make? There's all these things I think
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about, but I get it to the attorney who I have confidence
16:53
that will do a good job if it goes to.
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Trial, OK. I know I'm bouncing around a
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little bit, but I have to follow up on the Melvin Belli piece.
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Did did his office end up taking that case?
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Though they did have the case and it was, it was like a lot of
17:07
wrongful death claims. It turned out to be a policy
17:09
limit settlement. You know, I've had one of the
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things I do now over the the last 20 years is I kind of, I'm
17:15
specifically handling like the highest exposure cases,
17:18
including wrongful death and, and traumatic brain injuries and
17:22
other types of claims like that. And so a lot of wrongful death
17:28
claims are policy limits cases, but not all of them are.
17:33
And I'll give you an example. I had an auto versus bicycle
17:37
wrongful death claim. It was on the peninsula.
17:39
It was a horrible accident involving a 12 year old girl, I
17:44
believe, I don't remember exactly.
17:46
And it was, there's no both sides agreed that there was
17:49
questions about who was at fault.
17:50
It wasn't going to. It was not a clear 100% either
17:54
way. And so on that case, we went to
17:58
mediation. I always try to mediate cases if
18:00
I can, I'll try and settle on myself, but if I need to and a
18:04
lot of cases need to go to mediation and this one did.
18:08
And so we went to mediation. I met the parents and it was
18:10
very emotional and they were wonderful people.
18:14
I made the decision after we talked about all the things with
18:17
the mediator for almost 3 hours and on that particular case and
18:22
defense counsel was there too. But ultimately I'm the one who
18:24
decides what was we settle a case for what money we put up on
18:28
a case is it's my job. And I just made the decision in
18:32
that case to make one offer because I thought it was more it
18:36
would have been really hard for them to go back and forth
18:39
because really they're thinking about the legacy of their kid,
18:41
what they want to do about that legacy and, and still feel like
18:45
they've had their Peace of Mind about being treated fairly.
18:49
And so after about 3 hours, I made one offer and I told him
18:52
that was the only offer I was going to make that day.
18:54
Because sometimes in mediations I try never do the same thing.
18:58
I try to keep an open mind depending on the case and what
19:01
needs to be done. And in this case I felt that the
19:03
best thing to do was just to make one offer and then about an
19:06
hour and a half later they came back and accepted it.
19:09
And so, you know, sometimes I just try and think outside the
19:14
box as much as possible and do what I think is the best to get
19:17
the case resolved. I don't want to make
19:19
presumptions about what our listeners know and don't know in
19:22
this, in this process. I think some of the people who
19:24
listen to the podcast are, are very experienced and some are
19:26
less so. And and I think there may see be
19:29
some people who don't understand that decision making behind the
19:34
scenes. What you just described, that is
19:36
the claims adjuster who ultimately is is making the
19:40
decision on value. That is my job.
19:43
It's not defense counsel or anyone else's job.
19:46
It's my job to figure out what I think the case is worth and it's
19:50
my job to do a good job of going through all the medical records
19:53
and any of these things I need to do to have a feeling about
19:57
it. I have instincts as far as
19:59
liability goes and facts and who the attorney is involved on the
20:03
other side are. I think everything has to go
20:05
into the equation. It's nothing the company tells
20:07
me. It's my experience and wisdom
20:09
and and just figuring it out. And coming up with numbers of
20:13
what I think cases are worth. I want to play with this for a
20:16
little bit, if that's OK. I think that there are a lot of
20:19
lawyers. You know, there was a time when
20:21
everyone talked about Colossus, if you remember that back in the
20:23
day. And there are a lot of lawyers
20:25
who have this sense that it's almost actuarial on the other
20:31
side that that certain things are fed into a computer and the
20:35
computer based on venue and economic damages, etcetera,
20:40
spits out a number. And the adjuster may have a
20:42
little bit of range to move it up and down.
20:43
But otherwise there's, there's, there's not a lot there.
20:47
And so I, I'd love for you to to help us understand on your side
20:52
how you see it that is different than than that perception.
20:56
Well, I only can speak for myself.
20:58
I'm not going to speak for other things going on for myself.
21:03
I don't use any type of system except I will sometimes use a
21:10
system to determine if the the medical bills are reasonable and
21:13
customary for the area where where they are, but nothing
21:16
about general damages. Yeah.
21:18
And it's just to get an idea. I mean, there's so much lean
21:21
based treatment going on right now miles in California in the
21:23
last five years. It's kind of like completely
21:26
taken over the landscape, especially in Southern
21:28
California because I, when I switched over from for 10 years,
21:34
I handled just strict LED litigation for five counties up,
21:37
Marin, Sonoma, Mendocino Lake and Humboldt for for.
21:43
And all I did was litigation and I had six or six attorneys up
21:47
there that I had so much confidence in.
21:49
And we would go to trial 345 times a year.
21:53
And I had a manager who had confidence in the decisions and
21:56
it would give me the OK to do that on the right cases.
21:59
The last 20 years I've been handling claims in all of
22:02
Northern California from because we became more specialized auto
22:07
claims when I first started out we also I also did business but
22:10
we have those separated and I now in the last seven years I
22:15
handle all of California and especially in Southern
22:19
California right now. But it's not just there that the
22:22
huge increase in lean based treatment and just constant
22:25
policy limit demands sent out. You're preaching to the choir on
22:29
this topic and well, normally this is AQ and a here's a, a
22:36
piece that I've found to be challenging on this, on this
22:39
landscape. We, we do not engage in lien
22:43
based care. I see situations where there is
22:47
a client who may not have money, where some care may be helpful.
22:52
The flip side though, is where you see a lot of lien based
22:55
care. And and this is these, these are
22:57
my opinions and they are, are the opinions of Coopers that the
23:02
carrier's reliance on economic damages and not you personally.
23:06
But carriers have been intimated that they believe in economic
23:09
damages. But on the non economic damages
23:11
side, it's much harder to get value there.
23:14
And that's our perception on the on the plaintiff side.
23:17
So when it became clear that economic damages would drive
23:21
value and the HOWL numbers got, got cut because of the way the
23:26
howl decision came out, it felt to me like there was a, almost
23:32
like tax policy. It forced people to try and be
23:35
creative in coming up with bigger economic damages numbers.
23:38
And that's where this lean based care has, has erupted.
23:41
I would say like a boil because I I don't think it's good for
23:44
the industry. There's a lot of different
23:47
reasons why this could happen, but I've just I guess my my
23:51
number one thing is just how much I've seen it explode.
23:55
Yeah, yeah. Specifically, the most common
23:58
case I see is it's a clear liability accident.
24:02
They have an attorney from the very beginning.
24:04
They go to a chiropractor within three or three weeks or so.
24:08
They're ordering Mr. IS, which is really early in a case to
24:10
order Mr. is. Then they're getting referred to
24:14
pain management, They're getting injections and the injections
24:17
are costing between 10 and $20,000 per injection, including
24:21
the surgery center. And then they're getting get a
24:24
get a Doctor Who says that they're a surgical candidate,
24:28
though that's the most common cases that I'm seeing.
24:31
From my perspective, if that person truly is a surgical
24:35
candidate, that's fine, and if they are not and it's being done
24:39
to drive the value in the case, that's awful.
24:42
Well, and that's my job to figure out which ones I think
24:45
are legitimate and which ones we have to fight.
24:48
Yeah. I mean, that's part of what I
24:49
have to do, yeah. I have to imagine while you
24:53
might not be statewide that if you're primarily dealing with
24:57
death and traumatic brain injury cases that there may be less of
25:01
that piece going on in, in the, in kind of the day-to-day the,
25:05
the large exposure cases that you're handling now.
25:08
Yes, but if there's an exposure, because when I look at cases, I
25:11
wanted cases get assigned to me. It's, it's based on exposure.
25:15
So we can't assume it there. Even if it looks like liability
25:18
is questionable, we we still need to have it assigned to
25:21
someone who has more experience so that if there's a surgical
25:25
recommendation that it gets looked at in that in that case.
25:29
And even in traumatic brain injury cases, there's so many
25:34
different types of traumatic brain injury cases and, and I
25:37
have to make a decision on those cases, on which ones.
25:41
And it also will depend on the type of coverage we have, of
25:44
course, as as well as the exposure.
25:45
And I'll give you an example. About 18 years ago, I had a, a
25:50
horrible axe litigated file down on in Santa Clara involving a
25:53
student at Santa Clara University.
25:57
She was crossing the street and orange shirt hit her and she had
26:04
a really horrible brain injury which was going to take her out
26:07
of college have to have have her move back home with her mom.
26:11
Her mom was going to have to stop working to take care of her
26:14
and I knew it. I'm not saying I'm always right,
26:17
but I have an instinct to win. We have based on my experience
26:21
and and reviewing the records that this was a really, really
26:24
bad accident within the litigation.
26:27
And we're we were a Co defendant with a public entity where there
26:31
was an accusation that the crosswalk, I mean the light did
26:37
not give her enough time to cross.
26:39
And so I have to protect our insured.
26:44
That's my number one job at all times.
26:45
This we have to protect our insured.
26:48
And so they wouldn't, they didn't want the the plaintiff
26:51
attorney did not want an empty chair at trial.
26:55
And so we reached an agreement with them, a covenant not to
26:59
execute so that we would agree to go to trial, but that are
27:02
insured would not be exposed over their limits.
27:06
And I think 9 out of 10 times in this case, maybe more, we would
27:09
have defensed it. But there was just too much
27:11
exposure. And I felt the case was worth
27:13
between 10 and $15 million. That was my feeling.
27:16
And the verdict came in at $18 million.
27:19
The brain injury cases, there are some that are worth a lot
27:23
and there's others that are. I don't want to see manufacturer
27:26
because that's not a fair word, but that you have to look at
27:28
very closely and determine if if they really truly had a a
27:32
traumatic brain injury. More subjective.
27:35
Yes, but there's things you can look at like the Glasgow coma
27:37
score, what happened in the emergency room.
27:39
There's so many things I look at from early on to determine if I
27:43
think that they potentially had a brain injury claim or not.
27:46
And then also some of the treaters that they have later
27:49
on, if they didn't have treatment for six months or
27:51
eight months and then they all of a sudden have like there's a
27:53
big thing that's come out like, and I might not be saying it
27:56
right, But the DTIMRI, those are controversial about whether or
28:00
not they're meant to be used for treatment.
28:03
And so, yeah, I think out of any type of case that the traumatic
28:08
brain injury goes from all over the scale of what which, which
28:12
ones are very objective and which ones are, are more less
28:16
so. As I got more experienced on
28:22
intakes in terms of of talking to a potential new clients,
28:26
typically within 15 seconds to about two minutes, I could
28:30
figure out not what the true value of the case was, but
28:33
whether there was a there, there and what how it was going to
28:35
traject. So that's a lead into my
28:37
question for you on the valuation side from a a kind of
28:42
gut instinct on value, how long do a case is that showing up for
28:46
you? It could be right away.
28:50
You know, I've had just cases I got earlier this week where a
28:54
bicyclist hurt and various objective injuries right away.
28:58
I know that's a really bad loss. So it doesn't, it can change at
29:02
any time during the during the case because until a case
29:06
becomes litigated, I don't control what information I'm
29:08
given. So if I have the police report
29:11
or other information to tell me about it or I have an
29:15
opportunity to talk to the individual, if they're not
29:17
represented or if they are represented, they're attorney
29:20
and I can get more information plus speaking to our insured.
29:23
So I kind of feel like it could be any time and it could be 3
29:27
years into a case of someone all of a sudden has a surgery that
29:31
could change the evaluation. So it could be a day or two.
29:34
It could be 3 years down the line.
29:36
It it, it changes on every single case.
29:38
That's kind of like what makes the job so interesting is that
29:41
it's never the same. In that regard, and, and, and
29:45
these are some, whether they're myths or truths that I'm, I'm, I
29:49
have the opportunity to, to chat with you about some things like
29:51
setting reserves. There is a belief on the
29:55
plaintiff side that we want to make sure whether whether we're
29:58
in litigation or not, that we want to get as much information
30:02
as we can to a carrier and an adjuster early in the process so
30:07
that they can set reserves appropriately.
30:09
Because once reserves get set, it's very hard to move that
30:11
number. Is is any of that realistic so
30:16
that I. Would have two answers for that.
30:18
The first part is the earlier we get information earlier we can
30:22
look at things and try and make an offer to try and resolve the
30:24
case. I believe it's in your clients
30:27
best interest to at least if if they have that information.
30:31
I'm not saying that you have to take the offer, but that in my
30:36
opinion is the early you get us information earlier because
30:38
ultimately what my goal is to settle every case I can.
30:42
And again, I make the caveat that I have certain cases on
30:47
liability that if I feel strongly about then and then if
30:53
I don't believe the treatment is related or the surgery is
30:55
related. And then they answer the second
30:57
part of your question. I set reserves based on the
31:00
information I have. But if I get new information,
31:03
I'm going to change the reserve based on information I get.
31:07
Anytime I get new information, I want to evaluate that
31:10
immediately and, and, and, and update my evaluation.
31:13
So if if someone doesn't get us information right away, but they
31:17
have a really good case and we get a bunch of case later on, I
31:21
have to change my my aspect based on the new information,
31:25
update my evaluation and it ultimately could change my views
31:30
on the case, obviously. In a parallel track, if you had
31:34
your dream plaintiffs council, I guess would be the way to put it
31:39
in terms of the information that you're getting and the speed at
31:42
which you're getting it. What would you like to get for
31:46
you to have everything you need to be able to to make a good
31:49
evaluation on a case and and when?
31:51
As soon as possible. I mean, a lot of people want to
31:54
wait for demands to send everything all, all at once, but
31:57
as soon as possible for me. And the other thing that's very
32:01
helpful is to get the pre accident medical records, OK,
32:05
because those are so important for me.
32:07
And if, if, if it goes in the litigation, we're going to
32:09
subpoena those records anyway. Why?
32:12
Why are those important to you? Because if someone's making has
32:17
a report that someone, for example, a surgical candidate,
32:20
let's just use an example there, they did neck surgery.
32:23
I want to look at the five years or years of records before the
32:26
accident to see if they had any other treatment or any other
32:29
thing in the records would indicate, did they have an MRI
32:32
done? Did they have treatment?
32:35
Did they have injections? It was there.
32:36
Was there anything else going on in their medical history?
32:38
Because it's going to change it, it's going to be important and
32:42
for me to properly evaluate the case.
32:46
There are some lawyers again on the plan of side who have
32:48
opinions about pre litigation statements.
32:52
Is a statement something that you feel is absolutely essential
32:55
or is it something that is nice to have?
32:57
Or is it a don't really care, I can make my evaluation without
33:02
that. Statements can at times be very
33:04
important if if it's a liability situation.
33:07
Can you unpack that a little bit?
33:08
Yeah, So I recently had a what's been going on for a long time,
33:13
but it's, it's a wrongful death claim.
33:15
I involved in someone who was at our at our at our house and was
33:19
on a horse and I our insured was was not there.
33:23
So without their statement of what happened, it's very hard
33:26
for me to know to properly evaluate what in my mind
33:30
happened in that case. So there are like it's, it's in
33:34
liability situations where I it's very important for me so I
33:37
have a better understanding of what happens.
33:41
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33:44
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33:47
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