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Creating a Biz Dev Process for Professional Services and Using it to Predict Revenue · Budget Your Business

0:00
Scott: Hello, and welcome to Budget Your Business, the podcast for small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business.
0:10
Scott: I'm your host, Scott Geller.
0:13
Scott: Today I'm joined by John Atkinson of Growth Logic to talk about building out a business development program.
0:21
Scott: More specifically, we'll keep it in perspective for professional service firms.
0:27
Scott: And at the end, we'll tie it into how to use one of these programs to project revenue as part of the planning process.
0:35
Scott: With that, welcome, John.
0:37
Scott: Scott, thanks for having me on.
0:39
Scott: Absolutely.
0:41
Scott: For folks that are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
0:49
SPEAKER_00: I'd be happy to.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm a career sales leader and sales coach.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm a lifelong student of how to grow profitable revenue.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: I've been in the telecom industry, I've been in technology.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: And then for the last 15 years, I've focused on professional services.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So I've coached hundreds of partners, managers, sales reps, even sales managers, you know, over three decades.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: And I just find that it is uh it's uh my way of helping them thrive, helping them be successful, not only professionally, but but personally.
1:29
Scott: Okay, thanks.
1:30
Scott: And that's that's what you're doing now as far as growth logic, correct?
1:34
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, growth logic is a go-to go-to-market advisory firm.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Focus is professional services.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: So companies, firms call when they're stuck.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: They have they're having challenges growing their business, they need some help.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I can step in, do a quick assessment, and then help with go-to-market strategy, help develop their sales or business development function, and then even one-on-one and small group coaching to help execute the plan that we put together.
2:06
Scott: Okay, great.
2:08
Scott: Well, let's start off with an easy one here.
2:11
Scott: Just tell me what is a business development program to you?
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's a written plan with some structure that helps take the guesswork out of your revenue growth.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Revenue is the the lifeblood of every business.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so it's critical to have a plan that you can work from instead of leaving it to chance.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: We'd all love for referrals to come in, right?
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you would, I would everyone would.
2:40
Scott: Exactly.
2:41
Scott: Just sit back and watch it come to you, right?
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Watch it come in or stare at the phone and maybe it'll ring.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: But it usually doesn't work out so well.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I believe it's important to take control.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and this also gives you a chance to work with the clients and the prospects that you want to serve that are in your ideal client profile.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, unlike a retail shop where the doors open, people are going to walk in, may not be the right target market.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, this gives you some control.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: It also gives you control up on the success of the business.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: So um, and even if your business is doing well right this second, every business has has turnover, has, has attrition, right?
3:25
SPEAKER_00: So you need to get ahead of that.
3:28
Scott: So that that's interesting.
3:29
Scott: So that's one of the points of every business has a turnover, and possibly that that can happen in sales or delivery.
3:35
Scott: What other are there any other specific reasons to have more of a formal plan or program for this?
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it it also helps your your team, your employees to know what the plan is.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it also helps you to look at look ahead and help forecast what type of staff you're gonna need, either now or in six months or in a year.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh, helps you decide on your sub your supply chain.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh it helps you with financing, helps, it helps you get ahead of that so that you're not not scrambling.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of a lot of people spend more time on on their car, right?
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And getting and keeping that maintained than even the the pipeline of their new business.
4:29
Scott: Well, where where do I even start then to put some to put a program, uh a business development program together?
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And and obviously there's lots of businesses out there.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's for for these purposes, let's focus on B2B service businesses.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: So traditional sales, you know, I think that makes sense for for your audience.
4:49
Scott: Yes, it does.
4:50
Scott: Yeah, let's let's stay there with the that professional service, and then again, that B2B, I think, is a good spot.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: So traditional sales cycle is prospecting, qualifying those leads after you met with them, handling any objections, uh, and then hopefully closing the business, uh, some follow-up if if they're not ready to buy or the timing's not right, or you need to develop that relationship.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: And then you certainly need to nurture new new customers and make them raving, raving fans of your business and see where else you can build build a uh strategic relationship with them in a lot of cases.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: For my professional services clients, yeah, I like to use the framework why, who, and how.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: I can sort of explain, explain the why.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the why is is to back up for a second, not just run out of your front door and just go looking for clients, right?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: I've been there, done that, I've been in lots of different businesses and seen a lot of businesses.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: But first, why do you do what you do?
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Why what's what's the purpose of the business?
5:56
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to be known for?
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh also what you know, what's the vision for the company, right?
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Where are you now?
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Where do you want to be?
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh also helps you by backing up, you can identify your internal challenges or gaps in growing the business.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: What makes you different?
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I can kind of go on and on, Scott.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: What what is your what makes you distinct from your competitors out there?
6:21
SPEAKER_00: So backing up and figuring out the why, um, and and then who is the ideal client profile?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: I've used that term before and I'll use it again.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the why of your business.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And you know, and then you there's lots, lots of to get into the uh to the how and then the uh the who and the how.
6:43
Scott: So could you give us a just I know I'm sure you you could probably spend hours on that, on the who and the how, but maybe give us uh the the the quick version of of just kind of what that means, the who and the how.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Sure sure.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, happy to.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: So the the who is really I I look at it in professional services as three areas.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: First, your current clients, your target clients, so new logos that are in that ideal client profile that you have taken the time to define.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: So that can be my ideal client has this is in this range of revenue, or is in this this particular industry sector.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: It could be this geography only in this in this market.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: It could be my ideal client has a warm connection to me, so it's any kind of a lower-hanging fruit.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: It could be that they have a reputation for investing in their uh in their business, and that would be an easier well to wait a uh a more attractive client for you for you.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of considerations on kind of ideal client profile.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And then lastly, your centers of influence.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: So that could be your your referral partners, folks that can send you those referrals that we all want.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, in most cases, it's it's not enough, right?
8:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's a it's an important part.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, I can give you a couple examples of that.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: So in in my telecom days, we were selling big you know data services to to Fortune 1000s and and upper middle market companies.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: And so my COIs, my centers of influence were uh router vendors and uh phone system vendors, other tech gear providers.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: They could bring me in to their clients when they need help from our company.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh in accounting and consulting, you know, there's as you know, Scott, bankers, commercial bankers are great referral partners, employee benefit brokers.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: I found those to be exceptional referral partners as well.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Attorneys, uh, you can systems integrators on the IT side, yeah, I can kind of go on and on.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Those are channels that can bring referrals, referrals to you.
9:01
Scott: And so part of that, who is deciding the best centers of influence are, or to thinking through that process?
9:07
Scott: Is that the way to think about it?
9:08
SPEAKER_00: It it is.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Early on in my professional services days, I I was encouraged to meet every banker uh in our in our city.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think I may have told you this, Scott, that I did a good job of that.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: 50, 60 bankers.
9:23
Scott: There's a lot of bankers out there, aren't there?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: And there needs to be.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of need there.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And but it didn't, it didn't fare well for me because I was going after anyone and everyone that had banker in their title.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: So I really had to narrow that down to back to that ideal client profile for a target, but also for a a referral source, so that we there are ways that I can help him or her, and they can help help me and kind of be a mutually beneficial relationship.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's just logical that they play in the same the same space that I do.
10:00
Scott: Right.
10:01
Scott: It's it's a little bit of the the quality over quantity.
10:04
Scott: It's it isn't you might know a hundred different referral sources, but if only say five to ten are valuable resources, then the others, sure, you might get something every now and then, but they're probably not where you need to focus your time.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: It's about fit.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Like anything in life, it's about fit.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And so by backing up to the the why, including ideal client, then you know you're more targeted.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: If you're uh an Olympic archer, certainly you're not you're not slinging arrows everywhere.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: You have a specific target.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's it's key to do the the prep work, you know, ahead of time.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And then now you you're much clearer on on your who.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
10:48
Scott: And so the third piece here that you mentioned, Matt of the why and the and the who is the how.
10:53
Scott: So maybe could you could you give us a little bit of explanation around that how?
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh happy to do that.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: That is the question I get from most of my prospective clients is the how, and I encourage them not to just jump into the how.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: It's it's actually the hardest.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a lot of sales books, a lot of great sales books, business development books, marketing books on strategy, but I think it I think the tactical how gets really overlooked.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Examples, modeling for for in our business, we model that for our clients, so they have specific uh tools to use that actually take that strategy and make something happen.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: The way I like to say it, and and my what my mentors over three decades have said is conversations turn into relationships, and that can turn into paying clients.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: So you got to have that conversation that's with, again, back to the who with your current clients.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So, are you doing account planning in the accounting and consulting world?
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Not every client's gonna be strategic, but for that top 10, 20%, do you have an account plan to expand the relationship, see where else you can help them?
12:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I like to demystify sales and and this dev is simply helping your clients to solve a problem and to thrive.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's how I that's how I look at it.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: And so by getting to know them better, building out an account plan, there's lots of good templates out there that that we use.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: You can you can identify what else you can help them with.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: In the CPA world, they call that cross-selling, and that's a big a big part of it.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh second part of bringing back the who uh into the how is is your is your your targets, right?
12:45
SPEAKER_00: How how do I get in front of those uh ideal clients in the first place?
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Those decision makers are busy, they're hard to get in front of.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot of the work we do uh at A Growth Logic.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then finally your COIs.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: How do you get that conversation started?
13:04
SPEAKER_00: How do you run that conversation so that it leads to a relationship?
13:08
SPEAKER_00: It's not you're not being selfish, you're actually legitimately wanting to build that relationship, really get to know where they are, where they want to go, and how you can help them first.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a it's a mix of inbound and outbound strategies.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: The the inbound is typically in the realm of marketing, which I believe should go together with sales, but for today's purposes, we'll stick with you know outbound.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
13:36
Scott: Yeah, maybe next time we'll we'll roll through the the marketing side of it.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Let's do that.
13:41
Scott: Uh I talk to and and work with a lot of professional service firms, and typically they'll have one or two sales reps, unless they're on the larger side, and they'll have a few sales reps.
13:53
Scott: And then typically they'll have a couple partners.
13:56
Scott: In your opinion, how much of the sales production should be resting on the sales reps and or the partners in the business?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: It's a great question.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And like anything, Scott, it's you know, it it depends in professional services.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: If it's a smaller firm, typically won't have a business development leader in there.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, and as you as you get a little larger, it the the uh the really the the firm requires some more intentional uh targeting of new business and centers of influence and building referral uh sources.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: But it's you know it's critical in the small, mid-sized firms, law firms, CPA firms consulting.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Really, the the partners, so the owners of the business, it's essential that they have a plan themselves.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: They're really they're called their doers and they're sellers, right?
14:55
SPEAKER_00: They're at it's that dilemma, that that professionals' dilemma of hey, I've got to bill X number of hours per per week, but I also have a responsibility to keep the pipeline of new business, of expanding current relationships, current clients, uh, and be be known, be distinct uh in them in the marketplace.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's a mix of for kind of mid-sized firms and up to have a BD team or sales team that's that's effective, but working together with managers and partners uh to to win more often.
15:36
Scott: Josh, so it sounds like it really needs to those sales reps and and the partners need to be working together, is is one of the is that kind of one of the keys there?
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have to work together.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: For a for a service business that might not be professional services, you know, the owners and leadership, they have to provide the training, the systems, the structure to set them up for success.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna have a otherwise you're gonna have a uh a revolving door of salespeople.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: I've seen that over and over and over.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and in professional services, they're also really in charge of putting a structure in place.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't, it's not rocket science or I wouldn't be doing it.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: It is, but it it is it I've learned through a lot of good mentors over the years, there's uh there's a structure there that can help them accelerate their growth in the way that they want.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's important to back up to why.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: How big do we want to get?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: They may not want to get huge.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: It might be a lifestyle business, or it might be, hey, we we're we're very happy with 10% growth a year, but how do you how do you make that happen?
16:47
SPEAKER_00: How do you ensure that that happens?
16:48
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, getting partners and even their their staff involved in the growth process, having a role also increases the retention and makes them feel like they're part part of um the growth of the firm, and it helps build a vibe and a swagger at the firm.
17:04
Scott: Hmm, interesting.
17:05
Scott: Yeah, I like that.
17:07
Scott: So change the directions a little bit, John.
17:10
Scott: Thanks for you you've talked about, why we need this program and some of the key pieces to think about.
17:16
Scott: Moving into a little bit of the planning aspect of this, and let's say we have one of these programs in place, and what I'm wondering is we had this program, how do I use it to think about or or forecast the future revenue?
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Another great question because you could put something in in place and just hope it works, and if you don't track it, it's um it's really not worth doing.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: So you know, I'd highly recommend as you're starting off, a very simple CRM solution.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: There's there's a lot of freebies out there.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh I can just rattle off you know probably 20 different free web-based CRM solutions that can help you track your contacts and and really more importantly, track your pipeline.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so what I what I really almost insist on with our clients is to is to customize your stages in your CRM.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, this can be done in Excel or Google, uh, Google Docs, what have you, but certainly my old boss used to say, John, a lack of a system is not a system.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Um and John, and I think he was talking to me back in the day.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Learned a lot from him in all seriousness to have either spreadsheet or CRM so you can track who first who you're targeting.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: And you've already done that, right?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Because you've done the why and you've done the the who uh so you know who you're targeting, and then this is part of the how.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: So targeting and initial contact.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I've made, I've talked to Scott Geller.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: We had a great first meeting.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm sort of, you know, we're now in initial contact stage.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And then you can easily just move it to the right as you make make progress with each.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Then it's discovery.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: So Scott Geller says, Yeah, I I actually after our first conversation, I see I do have a need.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can help me with that's discovery stage.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And then as you progress into proposal and then a wins, a win stage.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'd also even like to add a serve stage at the end of that because you you can track your current clients in that system as well.
19:30
Scott: What what would you track in that that serve stage?
19:33
Scott: I like that idea, but what specifically could you would would you recommend tracking or thinking about in that stage?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: In in the serve stage?
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: You can track there certainly revenue.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: That's that's sort of obvious.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Um how many if you're a company or a firm that offers multiple services or products, then you can track how many of those are they using?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And when's the last time I have talked to them, right?
20:02
SPEAKER_00: We all like to think we can get it in our uh keep it in our heads or on a post-it note on the wall.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: I have tried that.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what my boss was talking about years ago.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and as uh people at home know, my my memory's not getting any better, right?
20:17
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna guess that others are in the same boats.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: When's the last time I talked to Bill uh or Mary?
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And so you can even set a trigger or an alarm to pop up, and that just makes your life easier because you come to work every day and you've got your plan built instead of trying to scramble and figure out, do I need to talk to Bill?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: When's the last time I've talked to Mary, who's a very important client of mine?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: But in all of it, you can track for all the stages closing rate by category, helps you know how much to have in your pipeline.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: So let's say you want to have three million dollars in new in new business next year, and your closing rate is 33%.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: If you leave out you know pricing uh increases and things like that and current business, then you know you need to have about a$9 million pipeline of new business, right?
21:10
SPEAKER_00: So, but without it, you're guessing, you're completely guessing, and that's really and I've been a business owner as you know, and and there's enough stress in small business.
21:20
Scott: Yes, there is.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: And you know it as well, Scott.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: So to know how much to have in your pipeline.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, then you can do something about it.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: You can make a change, you can have more meetings, you can do more marketing, you can you can uh revisit pricing, you can do more with your current clients.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: There's a there's dozens of things you can do to fix that uh that challenge so that your your pipeline, thirty-three percent of your of your uh of your leads are gonna close, and we you know what that dollar amount's gonna be.
21:56
Scott: Right.
21:58
Scott: Do you see any other changes?
22:00
Scott: Changes or benefits in a business that regularly project what they think their revenue is going to be?
22:08
SPEAKER_00: A lot of benefits there.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: A couple of things, you can track trends.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: You can see what are they buying.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Is it a if it's a product or good service?
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Is it professional services?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Is it tax audit or advisory?
22:23
SPEAKER_00: You can see kind of what's growing the fastest.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, you can check your by checking your your closing rate.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Without it, you really don't know.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: You're guessing.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned a swagger.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: You there is a difference in your confidence talking to a prospective client when you have a full pipeline than when you have to have that sale.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: You know what we all we've all been there.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, with um, you know, with your your fingers are crossed, you're you're praying as hard as you can for that sale, but when you have a full pipeline, then you're just a lot more relaxed, right?
23:01
SPEAKER_00: And you really can focus on what's the best solution for the client, not man, I need this badly, right?
23:07
SPEAKER_00: That's not a good place, that's a really desperate place to be.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Many years ago, uh was in that space, and um it's it's no fun.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: It all it allows you to be more disciplined and stick to your ideal client profile instead of just grabbing everything that comes in the door, which may be less profitable.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe your staff will not like the work that you just that you just landed because it's just a bad fit.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: They they don't pay well, or they're high maintenance.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's just a lot more enjoyable.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, and in the professional services world, you can it also helps you to forecast your staff to to see what what kind of team do I need in six months, 12 months, based on on the pipeline that we have.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: And and really after after six months or six months or a year, you really get a good sense of your closing rate and talking to your bank, your your banker, back to my my favorite 50 or 60 bankers in town.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, you need to have a strong banking relationship and you have some ammo once you once you have some documented data to help you grow.
24:13
Scott: And that that's I like that point, John, where you're talking about how you know knowing this forecast, and if you're comfortable with the pipeline, you know when you have to hire the next person.
24:24
Scott: And and with it that's that's that's one of the biggest pieces with professional services is when do I, you know, when do I hire?
24:32
Scott: Do I hire after I had the business or before I had the business?
24:35
Scott: So it sounds like what you're saying is you know, keep track in this pipeline, and and you'll see, right?
24:43
Scott: Like you'll know when you need the next person before you actually have them, before the client signs that now you're you're stretching or you're guessing when you have to hire them.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: It's exactly right.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: You you have your finger on the pulse, you know, lots of analogies to that.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, pilots look at look at their instrument panel and figure out figure out lots of things, right?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I just took a flight from Michigan this weekend, and I certainly hope the pilot was doing that.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: I I assume because we landed just fine.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that without it, you're you're flying blind.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And so you can't make those decisions.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: You can get really crunched, either hiring too quickly or not not quickly enough, and you're scrambling, you lose business because you didn't have uh the delivery uh team to fulfill the the work.
25:32
unknown: Okay.
25:33
Scott: Well, John, I I'd like to wrap up all of our shows with one to three immediate takeaways that our listeners could literally put into action as soon as they turn off the podcast.
25:45
Scott: You have already shared way more than one to three, but what can you what can you share with us today?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple things I'd like to leave the the audience with.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Certainly, we've been talking for a lot about this, a lot of a lot of stuff was thrown out, but I'd go back to first why, back it up, work on a Saturday, get get get either by yourself or with your your executive team, with someone that you trust, a mentor, or even get some outside help and figure out your why.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And that is your why are you in business.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, and really what is your eventual your eventual succession plan?
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of businesses don't like to talk about that because they're saying, Scott, I'm not gonna sell to private equity next week.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna sell to a strategic.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: It could be 10, 20, 30 years from now, but but it helps you start with the end in mind.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's all around working on the business, not just in the business.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I I was in the I've been in the service business a long time.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: I was in legal technology where we were scanning and copying hundreds and hundreds of boxes of documents to prepare the biggest law firms in the world for trial.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you, my partner and I, we worked in the business.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: We because we we scrambled just staffing, machines, supplies, you name it.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't in the early years, we didn't take the time to work on the business.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So what we talked about today is really working on the business.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: So I I highly recommend that.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Talk to uh any good uh you know council of CEOs type of organization, they're gonna they're gonna preach that.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: I'd say start start now, right?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Just it's not gonna be perfect, and it doesn't have to be.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Put it in a word doc, Google Doc, what whatever, write it on a piece of paper.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: What is your sales or business development function gonna look like with following some of the things I mentioned?
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be practical and and effective.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Get your team involved, let them let them help you with it.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: They have ownership once they do that, uh, and they're gonna they're gonna feel more like a like an owner of the business, which is what you're gonna want.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if again, if you get stuck, seek some outside advice uh just just to keep just to keep uh the the ball rolling and to help you help you scale faster.
28:21
Scott: I like it, John.
28:22
Scott: Put the time aside, figure out the why, right?
28:24
Scott: That's uh it sounds like that's the first step here.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: It it is the first step.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: It it's quickly it uh uh most of the time it's it's it's skipped, but I think uh Simon Sinek and and others have made that kind of famous, and I've seen that seen the difference in in skipping that step and and taking the time to put that together.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: It gives you a real uh foundation for your business.
28:52
Scott: Good.
28:53
Scott: I I I enjoy a good podcaster book recommendation.
28:57
Scott: What do you have for us today?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: As a lifelong student, I've got a bookmark, I've got my my iPhone podcast pretty pretty packed.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: I'll mention two for really any business out there, either goods, services.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Mike Greenberg.com is is a great source for that.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know Mike, I've just heard his podcast.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: It's uh Mike Greenberg is best.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh he just has some very practical, wise tools to grow your business.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And then in professional services, I'd highly recommend Mo Bonnell's new book, Give to Grow.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm reading it right now.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm almost almost done.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: He's a master of simplifying and demystifying the idea of growth and giving you tools around how do you give ahead of time so that you can grow where you're not you're not taking your giving, and it's going to come back to you.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: And uh you could you you could scale your firm a lot better like that.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: I certainly use a lot of the uh the tools that that he's developed.
30:03
Scott: All right.
30:04
Scott: Well, this has been great.
30:05
Scott: Well, where can people find out more about you online, John?
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're online at growthlogic.com.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: That's growth-logic logics with a K.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Com would love to, if anyone gets stuck, uh even if it's just for half an hour, just on my dime to help them get unstuck and to get moving in in that that why, that who, and that how.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love to have a conversation.
30:31
Scott: Great.
30:32
Scott: Well, thanks, John.
30:33
Scott: Thanks for uh for joining me today.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Scott, thank you for having me on.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of fun.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: You can tell I am passionate about this topic.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for reaching out.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: It certainly is the lifeblood of every business.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh that's why I've dedicated my business to it.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: And thanks for helping me uh to connect with your audience and and hopefully help them in some way.
30:58
Scott: Absolutely, John.
30:59
Scott: I I like to thank myself that you need revenue, you need cash, and you can kind of figure out everything else.
31:04
Scott: But without any revenue coming the door and out any cash to support the business, then there is no business.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well said.
31:13
Scott: All right, folks, that that's it for today.
31:15
Scott: If you like the show, check out more on your favorite podcast platform on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon or others.
31:24
Scott: And please rate the show.
31:26
Scott: I'm Scott Keller, and I hope you join me next time for budget your business.