Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / Amal Loring - Tarn Hows - Spirit, Success, and Finding Freedom Across Continents

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Amal Loring - Tarn Hows - Spirit, Success, and Finding Freedom Across Continents · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome back to Sakania the Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host Sakania, and today we're walking around the stunning Tarn House in the Lake District with someone who's lived several lifetimes in one.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Introducing Amal Loring, formerly Debbie.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: We walk and talk about names, so I won't say anything more about that and let you find out in the episode.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Amal was the second most successful salesperson in the world for a major IT company in the 1990s.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: For a woman in the 90s, this was extraordinary.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: She had the money, she had the success, and she had all the material things you could dream of.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Then fast forward a few years and countries until when someone offered Amal a gold Rolex watch with loose diamonds to seal a deal.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Amal said no.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: That moment changed everything.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Today, Amal is a counselor, a spiritual coach, a business coach, and a psychic medium.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about why she left the successes of the corporate world, her move to Dubai in 1997 before it was trendy, and that tissue box moment which cemented her reality and changed the course of her life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: How she strategically built financial independence through sponsoring companies, only to be thwarted by the pandemic, which delayed her plans by nine months.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: To finally touching down in the UK in July 2021, free to openly talk about being in a psychic medium.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Amal doesn't do fluff.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is direct, candid, and brilliantly unapologetic.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love her boldness, honesty, and energy.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation will challenge how you think about success, happiness, spirituality, and questions whether our focus is aligned with who we are becoming.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's get those boots on or get those boring chores on the go or grab a coffee and get comfy.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's walk.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Amal, how are you?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well, thank you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, thank you.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Tarn House today.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, beautiful as always, whatever the weather.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is, it's really stunning.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh just the beginning of this walk when you can see all the the whole tarn, it's just stunning.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it holds um significance for me because during challenging times in my life when I've been um overseas, I've imagined myself back here.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I used to live in the Middle East where you'd get temperatures of 45-50 degrees and like on our skin now, it's probably about eight 17-18 degrees, it feels lovely.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels lovely.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've got little um uh birds that are in the ferns here, yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the little um wrens.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wrens have got a mighty uh sound for a tiny bird, so yeah, it was uh significance to me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, shall we take it back to your name, Amal?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Amal and Debbie.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, so Debbie's my um uh birth name, uh-huh, and I think I was named after an actress called Debbie Reynolds that my mother uh particularly liked.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I moved to the uh Middle East to the United Arab Emirates, I felt I needed to reach out to the Arab population, yeah, whether it be the Gulf states or Saudis and Emirates.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt inspired to either call myself Amal, which in English means hope, or Noor, which means light.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: But Noor is harder to say than Amal.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, mm, I'll go for a mal.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And is that because of the rolling R's?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know, I haven't thought about it actually.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it might be easier for German speakers and South African because they can roll their uh R's.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I just thought Amal.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of stuck, and it did the trick.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had all the Arab clients who would come and see me for counselling and yeah, coaching and spiritual guidance.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they got there, thought, oh, she's white.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're kind of well, she's there now.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they've arrived now to just get through this gate.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, oh cheeky.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: After you.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, after you.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nice little soggy dog there.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they'd come to see you.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, how how did you get to the UAE?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Was that always your plan?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was well, I suppose the bigger plan.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I worked for a uh big IT company and uh was very success successful in monetary, you know, financial monetary terms.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do then?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I worked for a uh big IT company based in Reading, okay, and was the uh second most successful salesperson in the uh in the world.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wow first in the uh the UK, which for a woman in the 90s was quite fairly impressive.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I met David Doors for Women behind you.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um then I met uh David, who then became my fiance, who then became my husband, became my ex-husband.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, and that's my uh daughter's um father.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and that was through work you met, did you?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he'd had the opportunity to go to uh Dubai when nobody in 1997 when nobody'd heard of Dubai.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember all the the in my sales chat saying, but you can't drink and you can't drive, you won't be able to work.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And of course they were thinking of Saudi.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that you know, that perception that Saudi's everything.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I then got a job with the same company, but realised very quickly that sort of ethical and moral compass was very different.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Different, yeah, whole new culture.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, massive different uh differences in culture.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And also you were going to you know such a different culture as a married woman.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Would you go there as a single woman?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would, if it was that same time, yeah, because you get much uh much greater appreciation for different nationalities, different cultures, different religions.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So 207 different nationalities in the United Arab era.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's only 220 countries, and people like to talk about where they're from and their culture, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd ask them, you know, why do you do that?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, what's what does Hinduism mean and what Jains and what Sikh?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so quite curious about different faiths, and people um were very open, so I'd always be asking, Well, why do you do that?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And why did you do that?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you could get uh a much greater understanding and acceptance of uh different uh cultures and different ways, and what's acceptable in one culture is different in uh uh another.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's alien in one culture might be not in another, yes, um culture.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But having said that, I did observe because I I went to the uh US, studied neurolinguistic psychology and NLT and So this is is this in Tandis?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd finished in the IT industry.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see, okay.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm put on the earth to do more than just earn money.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at what point did you come to that realisation?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like a gradual happy anymore with material things?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you earn all this money.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um thank you, thank you.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: You earn uh all this money, yeah, and then yeah, there's only so many cars and material things you can buy.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I began to notice different people's this was stole, it was still other than the UK, yeah.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: P you know, the glass half full, the car glass half empty, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought if I could find a way to get people to look at the glass as always half full, yeah, the world would be a better place.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I went to the US studying neurolinguistic psychology, NLP, uh-huh, um, hypnosis, timeline therapy, and set up uh my practice in 1999.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um the UAE.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in the UAE.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So from the UAE you were travelling to America to study, yes, and then coming back.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you had your daughter in study in 2001.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So after you qualified?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So actually moving to the UAE was like a career change moment as well.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Was that intentional?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know when you were going there that that would happen?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you think you'd be working in IT?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought I'll go from one company to the other, yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, be successful there.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, except that we're just gonna go there and be successful.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then things like do anything to to close the deal.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, hmm, that doesn't sit comfortably.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see, okay.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then I remember uh when I went to Kuwait, um somebody offered me a gold Rolex watch, the one with sort of you know the loose diamonds in the middle.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, no, I'm sorry.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: What to seal a deal?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, okay.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is a whole world that I've never had any insight into.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the challenge is if you do it once, your reputation's finished.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And also it reflects back.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um all the deals that person's done, or the contracts, or the promises that they've made.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's an integrity question.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what really made me think, no, I can't operate like this in this environment.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So my intention was after doing all my training to then go and work with corporate organisations there.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, interesting, yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: To show, you know, this is how you can get teams to work better together.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Emotions drive people, people drive performance, but I was way ahead of a curve.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they weren't ready for it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know, this we'll probably talk about this later in terms of my belief spits um system about spiritualism and you know, everything's a lesson, you're in a school for learning.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and just on that, just to pause you a sec, I just finished reading your book.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right, okay.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: We'll come to that later.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so keep cliffhanger, keep cliff hanger.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's is that a teaser?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh teaser, yes.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so sorry, go on.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So then I uh the people found me in terms of you know doing one-to-one counselling.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd had uh always had two fears.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: One was you know, somebody coming to me for uh counselling or healing with MS because uh that's what my father had contracted in his early 30s, and he spent 14 years in uh ho uh home and a home which is still referred to as this, but used to be home for the incurables in uh Streatham.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I I saw that in your book and I just couldn't believe that was it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're being you know driven into a place which says you are incurable, yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: The psychology effects on it, yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I had uh of course people don't die of MS, they die of you know things that the affect.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the other one was um when I was very little, I remember watching film uh with a guy who'd had a very rudimentary tracheoptomy.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he'd had uh throat cancer.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it made the most awful noise.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So guess what?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: First two clients lady with MS, man who had Parkinson's and a tracheoptomy, it's like it's like the universe has uh facial fears.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like yeah, just brought that to you.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of and I've said this before, I'm sure, that um and I've seen memes about it and read about it, that the universe will send you the same message until you you actually listen or do something differently, yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the the uh intensity of the pain and discomfort gets harder and harder until you eventually think, oh my gosh, I can't keep doing this.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was you know, feel your feel your fear and do it anyway, which is a good one by Susan Jeffers.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, um and then after that I saw I could call it the A to Z, so I saw every everything from um you know, people are overweight, depression, uh mental abuse, physical abuse, how didophiles, murder.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how did you get your clients?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: How did they found me?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: They found me.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: At that time in the country, there was uh only a couple of there's a psychotherapist and a psychiatrist, yeah, and his his motto was medicate them first before you because then I know who I'm talking to, and I thought like a truth drug or something.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's outrageous.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean when you say things like that out loud, you just think is it is is this a movie?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh you know, it's common common practice, uh whereas I've never been one to believe in antidepressants or my beliefs, my uh personal view of when people say you've got a uh imbalance in your you know chemical imbalance in your brain.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and that's what's causing your behaviours.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and your um depression.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: The uh for me the definition of uh of depression is is very simple.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Working on it is different, yeah, but um uh depression is often is often caused by regrets of the past and fear of the future.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And people get depressed about decisions that they've made or not made or should have made, and then worry about the future.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna have enough money?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right am I gonna be happy?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna meet someone?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna have children?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is that interesting because actually in doing all that you're missing out on the present, aren't you?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and that's the only thing we have.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the past is gone.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if I said to you what time did you get up this morning, what would you say?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Must have been half seven.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Half seven, yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if I said to you, okay, go back and get up at half six, yeah, yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can't or stay in bed a bit longer, skip.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't even do anything about today.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the future is a concept, and that's already past, isn't it?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it in perspective.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But we do, I think all humans get trapped in that at some point in their life and recurring as well through their lives.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where this this notion of, oh my god, am I doing enough?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Have I done enough?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Am I enough?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: What am I taking forward?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then you start, you know, as you get older, some people might start thinking about legacy.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, am I a failure?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, success and failure are so subjective, and it really depends on you and what your story is and what what happiness and success means to you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I I've dealt with people uh in the UAE where happiness was sending enough money home uh to India so that um they could send money to children to be educated or for their mother to have water, at least in Bangladesh water to the you know village through to Saudis who want to have seven Ferraris on the drive.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if that makes an happy, who are you to uh judge?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's each to their own, and just because then also then brings to my mind um this whole comparisonitis problem, and actually one person's joy is not your joy.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So focus on your joy.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody said to me the other day, you know, you she she said you spout on about being happy, spout on.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, yeah, that's um and I and she said, Well, what makes you happy then?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: When are you happiest?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I said, Well, when I've got a cup of tea, yeah, I'm either listening to Radio 4, yeah, or sat in my house looking at the birds on the bird feeders, you know, because it's my house.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I've got money in the bank so I can buy the tea and the bird food.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And listen to the radio, pay pay the the uh license.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's n it's about what's inside you.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter if you have temporaries, if what's inside you isn't isn't satisfied, then it never will be until you figure that bit out.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most most people recognise that the the uh uh external world, the um physical material world, yeah, brings us happiness on a temporary basis.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so uh I'm sure we've all experienced we bought a car, yeah, and it's arrived and it's got that lovely smell of you know new car and it's pristine, and you park it away from other cars that don't scratch your car.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then after about six months, you say, Oh, I don't care where I'm gonna park it, it's got a few scratches on it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that new smell has uh are gone.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you're thinking, oh, I'm paying so much for this a month.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So some sometimes these things can become burdens upon us, and really all we need is a reliable car to get us from A to B.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is a good new stunning.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I know, it's lovely as well.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You've got I love that they put benches here as well.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, all new benches as well.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they do look new actually.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're kind of you know, you can have your little romantic sit-down or your little sandwich.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and cup of tea.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: A new cup of tea.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Cup of tea and a copy of Woman's Weekly.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do they still make that magazine?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: They do actually.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I don't know if it was Victoria Wood who had that um classic um saying which was oh beat me on the bottom with a copy of Woman's Weekly.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's always stuck in my mind.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And actually just so perfectly lined up for putting our jackets on because it's starting to rain.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And get windy.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the lake districts is the lake district, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: It rained a lot.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice actually, because being in uh uh in the Middle East, I think one of the easiest jobs is a weather forecast day because it's like what's the weather today?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: 55 sun.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tomorrow, 54 sun, next week, sun, yeah, next month, sun, yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well it you can have all four seasons in one uh one day here.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I can imagine actually getting off the plane from the Middle East and stepping out in England and just feeling the coolness of the championship, even though we might moan about it, especially up here when it rains so much.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but when it's hot all the time, I guess you don't really go out.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, when it gets to sort of May time, May right through to September, yeah, that's it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and some of the legacies you you know carry forward, yeah, is whatever the weather's, I I've always got a window open in the house.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's snowing, I've got a window open.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember often oftentimes my daughter and I would come back, everybody would leave um in sort of June at the end of the uh school year, yeah, and then come back in September.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so many times my daughter and I would land in Manchester or Heathrow or Gashwick, yeah, and look up and say, Oh clouds.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Clouds are beautiful.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You want the thing, you want the opposite thing to what you have all the time.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you've got curly hair, you want the straight hair.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, isn't it?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we haven't really known each other that long, have we?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, not in that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're probably not in this life exactly.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: We were meant to meet.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because we met a year ago at a networking event.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you did invite me to the other one.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ghosted you, so I'm very sorry.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a long memory.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Buy your own hot chocolate.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, things have to happen when they're meant to happen.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: That is divine.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Often I say to people is divine time, not human timing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned your book at the networking event and I raced off and bought it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very kind of you think you're over.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just in time for us to leave.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just in time for us to have a chat.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: What was really striking about it, and this is why I mentioned that we haven't really known each other that long.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is that from the first time we've we sort of spoke, you came across and you are very direct and very clear and very sure about yourself and what you're saying and what your message is.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt that really came across in the book.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of the thank you, some of the stuff that you talk about is really candid.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no fluff around it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're like really punchy on the the message you're trying to get through.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things that attracted me to you is that you know I don't have to wade through the words to find the message.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're very clear about what you're what you're all about, this is who I am, and I did really appreciate that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that really stood out to me was the tissue box.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my god, isn't it funny that you can be in a situation for that length of time and it takes something like a tissue box to really wake you up?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It just reminded me at that moment of one of my friends who had a similar moment.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: She was angrily lighting her candles.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it sort of took me back to that conversation as well.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to talk about that or do you want to save that for the book?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so it was um if you can imagine relationships in the 1940s in the UK, possibly Europe, um and certainly now in certain parts of the world.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, the man controls everything.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, to the way you think, what you might where you go, what you um should do with your life, what your purposes in in life.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I bought in line with Yui, I bought these real sort of bling tissue boxes, one for my side, one for my ex-husband's side.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is ex-husband too.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sounded about like Joan Collinson.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which one are you referring to?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he questioned it.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, because I I was first thinking, oh, could you pass me a tissue please?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Could you pass me tissue?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear that raptor up there?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful some way.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm cloud.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you know it's dusty, you know, at least the sand, you've got um you know air conditioning units.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Oh, I'll buy a matching box, tissue box.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, Oh, he noticed straight away and said, Why have you bought that tissue box?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, they saved me keep bothering you for for things, and it gives me a bit a bit more of independence when I want a tissue, which I'd said in tongue-in-cheek.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, You may think you're you've got more uh independence, but ultimately I'm in control.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, interesting.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and at the time when you entered this relationship, were you aware of that?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I got a uh big pair of spectacles on called rose coloured spectacles.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which I've been petitioning ever since for a global ban.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um it lodged away, yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the old me, the old Debbie, I thought it's name, yeah, would have bitten on it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this looking back was a big lesson in patience and um tolerance, tolerance of somebody else's belief systems, way of being, religion.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Control.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I knew if I'd um when he said oh I'm taking a third wife, yeah, um you were wife number two.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: If I'd gone, oh, you know, get stuffed, yeah, as to those effects, then financially I wasn't able to support myself and my daughter.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, I'll have to bind bind my time.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time I'd also got a uh passport, um, a local passport, which enabled me to then uh financially provide for myself.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So say that again about the passport.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um I had when you marry uh Emirati, yeah, then it used to be not the case now, okay, then you would you could be granted a um Emirati passport.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then that enables you.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this was 2000, yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, 2000.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: 2013.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And from that you can then sponsor companies.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Where you charge them an annual fee for them to be able to operate in the country.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Although that law changed in 2021.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember a funny time I w I went to um particularly government departments because operating as a councillor there, I need a certain licence.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I've known this chap for years.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, you don't look very happy.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I burst into tears, ooh.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked really embarrassed.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what can I do?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's good you let it out.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, what happened?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Oh, I said, Oh, my husband's taking another another vice.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, Oh, okay, as if it was the norm.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the one that was a norm, that's the passport.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it is the norm.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the one that said, Do you have a passport?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Why don't you sponsor companies?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what do you mean?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I went, so um, you know, from that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean though, sponsor?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's effectively been like a non-exec deck, non-executive director.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you support that uh company coming into a country.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: You the bridge between them and the government.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then all the legislation, you help introduce them to people who could potentially give them contracts, um, and then they pay you an annual fee.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And of course it's good from their perspective because they're talking to essentially a British uh person who's the same culture, speaks the same language, yeah, and therefore is lower risk by definition.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I did that um Was that done openly?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's not without challenges of perceptions of you know women being easily manipulated and uh all the rest of it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: They soon found out the truth.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when the law changed in 21 and my uh daughter had already gained her place in uh Cambridge, yeah and was in Cambridge, I thought there's there's no need for me to be here.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd originally planned to leave in 2019, yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: But of course we all know what happened in 2020, so that uh that didn't work.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, when I read that part of the book, I gasped.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh which part?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: The bit where you said it was 2019.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh no.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and I thought, right, I'm ready to go, blah blah blah blah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just that sinking feeling.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, goodness me.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And there were times during the pandemic I wanted to go back to the UK, yeah, but uh uh the country for forbade any of this uh um residents to leave the country.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was forced to stay in another in the country for another nine months.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: While I saw the pandemic sorted itself.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I finally touched that touched down on earth back in the UK in July 21, yeah, it was a massive relief.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because actually that whole touching down on earth is really your escape, wasn't it?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I could then openly talk about yes, I'm a psychic medium, yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I work with spirits, whereas before this is you know forbidden in Islamic countries.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: So just um nice little segue there, thanks Amal into the spiritual world.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did that come about?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: How did you grow your awareness to that?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I first saw what we would commonly call a ghost when I was eight.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And regressionly my mother poo-pooed it and said I was making it out.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wanting attention.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward a few.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you do strike me as someone who just needs to be in the middle of attention.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Drama, yes.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Drama, yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh then fast forward I was on a management uh growth scheme in in uh a bank, yeah, and I was having a conversation with somebody, and then the uh a lady next to me said, Who are you talking to?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Crikey.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Him, and there's nobody there.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh my gosh, I must be skipped, there's something wrong with me.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I might be suffering from not you know delusions or schizophrenia or something, yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward a few years again, and um a friend of a friend knew uh John and Jeanette, who are featured lots in the book, who are uh very famous uh platform mediums, i.e., people who go out and give demonstrations of spirit, and we became lifelong uh friends, yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they helped me uh uh develop that sort of intuition to psychism to mediumship.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I trained with one of the largest bodies uh legal bodies in the U uh UK.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then started you know, started from there.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what what does that mean though?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do with that?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: So what it what it means is um there's fundamental belief, and also it's a basic law in physics, okay, that nothing can be created or destroyed.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when we pass away, our physical body is here, yeah, but that which makes us us our the essence of who we are, our soul, then reunite with the the remainder of us as spirit, and that um we're there to help people on earth because we have an understanding when we're in spirit, we have an understanding of what it is to be uh in this school called Earth, which is one of the biggest challenges for us, right?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that it is a school and we're here to learn lessons.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what those lessons are, and we don't know what the answers are, otherwise it wouldn't be a test.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're there to guide, not advise, but guide, right?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like, I'm the middle person who gives those those messages um out, yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we're all psychic to some degree, okay, because I'm sure you've experienced you'll be thinking of someone they haven't thought of for a while, and if they blow me down, they send you a message or hi! Oh yeah, that has happened, yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because everything's made up of uh energy, okay.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Your energy reaches out, it it clicks if you like with that other person's energy, yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also our intuition that's from our super subconscious, okay, from our you know, from from guides, the universe, god, angels, whatever you're happy to uh call them.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we call it our intuition, and you have an intuition on something or someone, and let's say you ignore it, yeah, afterwards you say, Oh, I should have listened to my intuition.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my gut told me, yeah, I've said that before.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I should have well, gut in natural fact is uh been there, done that very usually in the stomach area.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and you think, oh yeah, I recognise this, I've been there.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Intuition comes from around the forehead.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like there's something everybody thinks John's fabulous.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I don't there's just something I don't like about him, but I can't put my finger on it.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they're the ones you listen to, and often our intuition says, I like John, I don't like John.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the biggest challenge is I don't like it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to give it time to work out.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: For it to unfold.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, unfold not work out, because it will be a good one.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because then you go back into your brain.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you go into your brain and say, Why don't you know, why am I indifferent towards John?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of your business now, what is it that you offer?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So three aspects.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they get blended into one.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there's the uh counselling, yeah, and spiritual coaching.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So spiritual coaching's people say, What happens to us when we die?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's life about?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I keep making the same mistakes?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite philosophical, yes.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Will someone just contact you through your website or yes, a lot of my uh business is word of mouth, okay, and also people referring me.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: The difference being, you know, somebody says oh, you should go and see a male, yeah, or Debbie or whatever you want to call her.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then referral is I'm I'm going to put you in contact with her because I think she can help.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And from the coach counselling side, as I once said to my daughter when she was six and she asked me what I'd do.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anybody who's unhappy, you shouldn't be unhappy.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've got tools and tunneys to make me happy.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is um business coaching.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2008 I recognised that I had a lot of clients coming to see me, particularly men, yeah, with depression.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right, okay.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the the uh subprime crash, yeah, which affected the whole world.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it began in 2011.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought I need more skills and structure to help people.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: So then I did my business uh coaching.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh sort of helping those um help people build business, their business, put um money in the bank, time in the in the diary, yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: But what's really interesting, and this is predominantly with women, yeah, is that imposter syndrome, yeah.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And people saying, Oh, nobody's gonna pay for pay for this for me to do this or sell them this or you know, create that, and having that lack of confidence, yeah, that internal battle can be crippling, can't it?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas with um men, the way they're brought up, yeah, they fake it till they make it, they never say, Oh, I'm lacking in confidence.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's absolutely fine if they are.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's some really interesting stats around that, aren't there, in terms of um women who apply for jobs versus men who apply for jobs and how much of a fit they are in men and much more.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of women talk themselves down, oh no, I'll need to do that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I haven't got qualifications.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas um generally I'm speaking, generalization.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Men will go, yeah, I can do that.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then worry about if they can after.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: So with the three things then, when you said um sometimes they blend into one, is that just based on how do you work that?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you sort of figure that out?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: If someone says to you, I need a business coach, but it's obvious to you they need a more rounded package, so to speak.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I I will then uh talk to them, primarily, you know, on what they've asked me to do.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then I'll say to them, Well, this is obviously deep-rooted, this is going back to oh okay, childhood issues, oh okay.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I can help you with that, or if you want to go somewhere else, yeah, that's fine.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes you have to let something like that marinade for a while, don't you?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then come back to it, maybe and then I don't make assumptions, but I have to be careful because obviously there's different belief systems, yeah.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would never want to offend somebody in their particular belief system.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there was one um chap who was said to me, I'm gonna go into business business coaching.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm going to um go into business with this person.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And his father came through and said, Tell him no, that bloke's a crook.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm saying my head.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Okay, have you done any uh due diligence on him?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Have you looked him up on Company's house?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, I met him in the pub.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh my gosh.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually the dad was yes, a fool.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um he called me two weeks, or we had our next session two weeks later.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I don't know how you knew, but I went and checked that guy out and he'd been bankrupt seven times.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just experience and you know intuitive feeling I get.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you can't say.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we we spoke again a couple of weeks later, yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh, would you have a nice weekend?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we remember did this, and he said, Oh, we went to a spruchers church.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Really?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Oh yeah, I go um, you know, quite often we go go down to Manchester to see my family, and then uh I go to spruiters church.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Well, your father's in spirit.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: He went, Yes, he is actually.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What's called proof of survival, so I said this is what it looks like, his characteristics.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's the one who told me to tell you not to do that.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you didn't tell him.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Oh he said, I speak to my dad, he doesn't reply.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I said, He does.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: He he replies to you in dream state, but you ignore your dreams, yes, I do.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, how funny, is that interesting?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I don't uh never push it on people, but I'm surprised or pleasantly surprised, so many people now uh are more open, yeah, to something and that's you know that's out there.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's should we just drop down a bit?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't feel like we're done.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really interesting.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I um so I've just I've just kind of started exploring the spiritual world a bit more and um booked in for a past life reading.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, and um this is really funny.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: So so I've been a lifelong like as an adult, I've just been like, oh my goodness, I hate cleaning, I just hate it.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have this aversion to sorting out laundry, my house isn't that big, and I got a cleaner to help me who was fabulous, and everyone was like, But your house is so small, why do you need a cleaning lady?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you were cleaner in a previous life, yes, yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I turned up to the reading and I was like, Oh, I think hate cleaning laundry, and I dreamt about it, and I'm so annoyed.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so Amanda, the Amanda Green who was doing the reading, she was like, she just burst out laughing and she said, We'll get to that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we'll get to that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was so funny, it was just just bizarre, but it's all connected.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, everything's always connected, so people connected at one level or another as well.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this whole concept of we were meant to meet and our paths were meant to cross.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just love that.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually everyone in your family you've met before.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and often you've got agreements it with them, you know, from a previous live say, well, we didn't resolve that issue, we didn't so let's do it all again and just change roles.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just find that really fascinating.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that this walk is accessible, I love that the path is wide, yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wheelchairs can access it.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this as you can see, there's loads of people here today.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and they've got the end of buggies that you can uh get on and uh that takes you around, you know, the motorised buggies.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's somewhere you can come all year round.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and National Trust membership parking.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so it's perfect.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is perfect, yes.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one, I think it was 2022.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was freezing, yeah, and the tarn was frozen out across completely.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I came stunning, yeah, and we were throwing stones only to create an echo.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next day it snowed and it it just like looked like a sort of Christmas cake.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just stunning.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just imagine it?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: They suffered a lot though from the storms.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, lots of trees have come down.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and they've had large disease here as well.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Which but you see, trees that have a lot of intelligence, they talk to each other through roots and they they support each other as well.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: We can learn a lot from that.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we can learn a lot from nature.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just I just find it so fulfilling, I guess.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel complete if I've not done something active in a day.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like yesterday I think I walked nearly seven miles in the morning.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that's good.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because it was sunny.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was snowing.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: We all know if it's sunny, yes ditch the gym, you go outside because you don't know when it's gonna be like that again.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's um that's also a lesson about carpet dm being at the moment.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if the weather's good, get out.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and if it's not good, then go to the gym.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really important so many of us are in our heads, yeah, and not in the physical uh body.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're in a physical body, then we're grounded.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is fabulous, Mar, thank you.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome, thank you for your time.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're welcome.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, me too.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's um definitely a lot more to explore.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I say this to everyone as well, but everyone I talk to is so interesting.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: The stories are so different.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've got a great job.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um time for a hot chocolate.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Time for a hot chocolate.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Amar, for your honesty, your wisdom, and for sharing your journey with us.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: The world needs more people willing to say no to Rolex watches, even if they are gold with loose diamonds, and say yes to their own integrity.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: After we finished our coffee and cake and hugged each other goodbye, I drove home contemplating what Amal said.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Depression is regrets.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of the past and fear of the future.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: In doing all that, you're missing out on the present, and that's the only thing we have.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but I definitely spend a lot of time either replaying what we should have done differently or worrying about what might happen.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm not achieving much in doing this, but I can't stop myself.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I should be focusing on what's happening now.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: To control this had taken so much practice and so much intention.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: The tissue box moment really stayed with me too.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: How something so small, like buying matching tissue boxes for either side of the bed, can reveal something so profoundly true about power and control in a relationship.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: You may think you've got more independence, but ultimately I'm in control.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow! I really appreciated Amal's patience and strategy.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't react, she planned, she built financial independence, she waited for the right moment.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that takes incredible resilience and strength.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've been enjoying reflecting on each episode with some questions, and I hope you've been getting some value from those too.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So here are some questions to sit with as you reflect on this walk and talk.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Question one.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Question two.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: What's your version of tea and bird feeders?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: When you strip away all the external noise, all the shoulds, all the comparison, what actually makes you happy?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not what you think should make you happy.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: What actually makes you happy?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, what would you do differently if you knew that nothing can be created or destroyed?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: That the essence of who you are, your soul, continues beyond this physical body?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Does that change how you approach relationships, how you make decisions, and how you live today?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: As this podcast matures, I'm starting to see the beauty of these conversations is that they don't give us all the answers.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: They invite us to explore our own.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: If this episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear about it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which moment stood out?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the gold Rolex?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the tissue box?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Drop me a comment and let me know.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know someone who needs to hear this, maybe someone stuck in past regrets or future anxiety, or someone questioning what success really means, please share this episode with them.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't already, please subscribe so you don't miss future episodes.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're having more conversations like this, raw and thought-provoking.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you have a moment, leaving a review really helps other people discover the podcast.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just a few words about what resonated with you or what challenged your thinking.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: It really makes a difference.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can find out more about Amal and her work in the show notes.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: She offers counselling, spiritual coaching, business coaching, and mediumship readings.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you can find her book, Lifting the Veil, in there too.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a candid account of her journey that's absolutely worth reading.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go, I want to give a huge thanks to a band called Persimmon for being our music partner.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Their music creates the perfect atmosphere for these walking conversations, and I'm so grateful for their support.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for walking with us today around Tarn House.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep moving, keep questioning, and keep practicing being present because that's all we have.