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Transcript

Toxic Boss? We Got You. · Not All Business

0:00
Why do managers think being seen at your desk matters more than
0:04
actual results? And when did revoking approved
0:06
vacation time become acceptable? Today, we're talking to our
0:10
celebrity guest star, Linda Harvey.
0:12
Yes, the Linda Harvey, the Manager guru who's got hundreds
0:16
of thousands of followers. She hosts the new podcast in the
0:19
business of Humans and she coaches people through workplace
0:22
situations that frankly make you want to just scream into a
0:26
pillow. You're going to hear from Linda
0:28
why your boss gossiping with you is a red flag.
0:31
It's not a bonding moment, people.
0:33
Why? That's just their management
0:34
style is never an excuse for throwing staplers and why you
0:39
have more power in sticky situations than you think.
0:42
We also celebrate hitting our 21st episode.
0:45
We are officially in the top 1% of and Clay shares his jury duty
0:51
experience with just a dose of drama.
0:54
So listen in today if you're tired of choosing between
0:56
speaking up or keeping your job. Welcome to Not All Business, a
1:00
podcast by two former CEO's who went from competitors to
1:04
friends. I'm Blakely Graham and my Co
1:06
host is Heather Cooper. And we're joined by our
1:08
producer, Clay Cornell. Let's get down to business.
1:19
Hi guys. Clay, what's on your shirt?
1:24
Oh yeah. OK, so I recently served my jury
1:29
duty. Recently.
1:31
Recently, like as in a couple days ago and so and.
1:34
They gave you a sweater. That was and you didn't take off
1:36
this sticker. This is like when you go to a
1:39
conference and you're like, hello, my name is and you point
1:42
out to your friend that you still have that on because you
1:45
look like a total. Did you ever I'll save you.
1:49
Did you ever wash it by accident?
1:52
Isn't that the? Worst, and it gets like crumbled
1:54
up, but Clay keeps his on. He keeps his on.
1:56
She's proud he doesn't wash them because it's still really shiny
2:00
and red. I did my civic duty, I'm
2:02
feeling. What number were you this?
2:04
Is not like AI just voted sticker.
2:07
This is not like a badge of honor.
2:09
I'm not virtues kind of your. Juror.
2:12
Well, he he showed up, which is half the battle.
2:14
A lot of people just don't do that.
2:15
So good for you for showing up. How did it go?
2:18
Did you get picked? Have to right?
2:19
You would go to jail if you didn't show up, right?
2:21
We'll see. I didn't.
2:22
I haven't gotten taken away yet. I don't know.
2:24
So what they say while you're there in the room, it's on all
2:28
the mailing stuff. But they say to you, if you
2:31
don't serve on a jury and you're called for jury duty, it's like
2:35
some huge number of money or a jail term.
2:39
But they're like, or a jail term And they smile when they say it.
2:42
And you're like, I'm here like, why are you telling me this?
2:45
I've made it here. Don't scare me again.
2:47
I. Think they they read that?
2:50
Certificate. So seriously.
2:51
Yeah, there was a whole video where they're like, if you don't
2:53
serve on the jury, you'll go to jail.
2:55
OK. So you showed up, you had to
2:58
call in I guess ahead of time and they said yes, you do need
3:01
to report probably. Yeah, I tried to get out of it
3:03
twice actually, because I was like, I don't, I got work to do.
3:07
I got stuff. I don't have a car.
3:09
At one point I was like transportation's an issue.
3:12
Everyone's busy, you know this on the last Linda episode.
3:17
Y'all like you can't use that excuse.
3:19
You got to show up Clay. What are you trying to get out
3:22
of it for? Because it's the worst.
3:23
And do they still only pay you like 50 bucks a day?
3:26
What's the what's the comp? 30 bucks?
3:27
That's highway robbery. That is.
3:29
That should be a violation of the WAGE Act, honestly.
3:34
I do agree with that. Yeah, that's my lawyer.
3:36
That's my lawyer. No, it makes me mad.
3:39
So I show up and there's a security line to get in.
3:43
And, you know, I know that basically once you even remotely
3:48
get close, you're on camera. Like they just have cameras
3:50
everywhere. So you show up, I parked, I walk
3:54
in, I double checked, I didn't have any lighters, no firearms,
3:58
no ammunition. No.
4:00
Good thing you double checked. You're like, do I have my Glock
4:03
on me? OK, well, I'm in Detroit.
4:06
OK, so. I know.
4:08
Well, you know what? When we went to Casa Bonita, my
4:10
son did walk in with his work. I told you Knife, and I told.
4:13
You I gave you a heads up and he still did that.
4:17
OK, so you go through security? So I'm about to go through
4:20
security and 3 * 1 of the security guards that was armed
4:27
was like no vapes, no lighters. If you have a lighter go back to
4:34
your car. You know that whole thing and
4:37
people are like, you see people go, you know, do that whole
4:42
thing and it's. They're patting their chest and
4:44
they're patting their packets down.
4:47
Yeah, 1020 seconds later someone says I'll be right back.
4:50
They don't go right away. Hey, wait a second.
4:52
But you're like, they had something.
4:54
No one knows. I vape because they're adults
4:56
with their pacifiers, yeah. So then we get into the, you
5:00
know, Dre room and there's, you know, 300 people in this room.
5:03
It's huge. And we're in there and they go
5:08
over it again. But the guy who is kind of like,
5:11
given the orientation, he was like, hey, if you still have it,
5:15
you can just give it to me. And then if I see you outside
5:18
later, like, I'll hand it back to you or something.
5:21
I don't know if he was joking because I got home and I was
5:24
like, Ray, like, you know, they were talking about this and
5:26
she's like, let me tell you a story.
5:28
And like, she had been on jury duty.
5:30
This is my wife Ray. She was on jury duty last year.
5:34
And which is crazy, right? We both got called in anyway So
5:37
she actually was on a a jury. I didn't get end up getting
5:41
selected. Spoiler alert I got sent home at
5:43
11:00. She goes on a jury and the judge
5:47
says that there was someone who did have a vape who made it to
5:51
the courtroom then and and was told you need to take that to
5:56
your car. Instead of going out to their
5:59
car. They handed it to a worker in
6:03
the building and then the judge found out about it.
6:07
So then not only did that person get dismissed as a juror and get
6:13
fired, the person who took the vape, who was the worker, got
6:17
fired. Yeah.
6:19
What? Yes, it's.
6:22
Like vapes are very dangerous apparently.
6:26
It's combustible. I mean, it's, you know.
6:30
I guess is it? Combustible.
6:31
I don't think so. Hey, what grounds did you get
6:33
dismissed on, Clay? All the juries had been filled.
6:37
They called like half the people, and my name never got
6:40
called. They did like names one at a
6:41
time, and my name never got called.
6:43
So then they said, hey, you've completed your jury service.
6:45
Come get your letter saying you've completed it and you can
6:48
go, yeah, it totally worked out. I was like, they played Spider
6:52
Man at one point. Like they turned on a movie and
6:55
they're like, hey, they're like, do you want to watch?
6:57
Like it's Kindercare? Yeah, do.
6:58
You want to watch Thor or Spider Man and people clap for Spider
7:01
Man, so he showed Spider man. So if you look at my whole
7:06
experience, I went through security, I was told I I learned
7:11
what unconscious bias was. I was told don't vape in here.
7:16
And then they said want to watch Spider Man and then I went home.
7:22
There we go, another day. That's our system.
7:25
And justice was served. OK, so on this episode of Not
7:29
All Business, we're going to talk about sticky situations
7:32
with our guest who's coming on in just a few minutes.
7:34
But first, before we do that, we have a milestone to celebrate.
7:37
And I don't know if listeners have paid attention to this from
7:40
previous episodes. We only talked about it a little
7:41
bit. But at the end of this episode,
7:43
we will have hit our 21st episode.
7:46
And how it works in the podcasting world is if you've
7:50
made it to the end of your 21st episode, it's published, it's
7:54
out there, you are in the top 1% of podcasts.
7:58
So now that I've said that out loud, how do you feel?
8:01
How does it make you feel? We're in the top 1%.
8:03
Only 1% of podcasts make it to this point.
8:09
I don't know, we celebrated this back when we were on like our
8:12
top, our number 11, and you say we only talked about a little
8:15
bit, but we actually put out a big reel and put it blasted
8:19
across all the socials. Well, that because we actually.
8:22
Have talked about it a lot but I'm just wondering like when are
8:27
we so top 1% can we like submit ourselves for a Webby award now
8:32
or are we going to be up for the Golden Globes now that that's a
8:36
thing for podcasts like like what's like what happens in the
8:41
1%? It feels great, Clay.
8:43
It feels great. I've I've, it's awesome.
8:45
I'm having so much fun. And what's next?
8:50
Like what's the next threshold? What's the next prize?
8:53
Golden Globes though, Golden Globes, that was so fun.
8:56
That podcast is is a category. Thank you for bringing that up.
8:59
Yeah. Yeah, Did you watch it?
9:01
I did, and I was so excited. First of all, I loved the broad
9:05
array of podcasts that were nominated.
9:07
So from everything from NPR, can I go through?
9:10
The list. Female.
9:11
Yeah. Oh yeah.
9:12
So, yeah, so. And this is the first year that
9:15
podcasting was an award that you could win.
9:18
Here were the nominees. Armchair expert with Dax
9:21
Shepard. Call her daddy.
9:23
You guys know that one. Call her daddy.
9:25
Yeah, listen to it. I mean, not a lot.
9:29
Smartless, Obviously, Mel Robbins podcast and then Up
9:36
First by NPR and Good Hang with Amy Poehler.
9:42
Love that one. That's my favorite.
9:44
She won. She won.
9:46
That's a big deal because she's out of all those, I think she's
9:48
the newest and she is her. I love it because it validates
9:54
what we were talking about Blakely about.
9:57
People just want they want to unplug, they want to just laugh
9:59
a little bit. You know, they just want to have
10:01
a good time with everything else going on in the world.
10:04
They want to walk away with learn something, laugh a little
10:06
bit and she's that's basically the premise of her show and
10:10
she's killing it. And I love like if I mean
10:13
watching her from the very beginning, she was so unpolished
10:17
and so unapologetic about it and just kind of learned how to like
10:22
navigate and we are learning everyday.
10:24
Like I feel like we're so unpolished.
10:26
I mean, we are definitely the next good hang, but I just
10:30
appreciated her. She just makes you feel
10:35
comfortable. And some of those other ones are
10:37
all good. Actually, I, I do like almost
10:40
every podcast in that category, but they're a little more
10:42
buttoned up, you know, and a little bit more, dare I say,
10:48
like scripted just so to speak. Been around longer like all
10:52
those other. Podcasts.
10:54
They've. Been in the game for a long time
10:57
and so for Amy to come in and win with good hanging and it's
11:00
like she is sponsored by like Walmart.
11:02
I know and she has a pretty small team, but I mean, podcasts
11:09
normally do, but for them to beat NPR, you know, and, and the
11:14
jurors. Jurors.
11:17
The jury for the awards are independent international
11:22
journalists. So for them to pick, that's the
11:26
it's not like the People's Choice or just like.
11:28
I was wondering who voted for that because they always thank
11:31
like the Hollywood Foreign press, although I didn't hear
11:33
anyone thank them this year. Isn't that who they usually
11:37
thank? The Hollywood.
11:37
Isn't that the Oscars? No, that's the Academy.
11:41
Look likely. If we're going to win awards,
11:43
you got to get this shit straight.
11:45
Unpolished, you need. You need to figure out who we're
11:49
thinking and when. No, Yeah.
11:51
Speaking of which, who did Amy Poehler thank first?
11:56
Her producer. Her.
11:58
Producer. That's right.
12:00
I hope that's who I remember to think, yeah.
12:03
This is turning into a very sticky situation, and Speaking
12:06
of which, we need to talk about sticky situations today.
12:09
That is why we're here and we've brought back on.
12:12
We're being graced by the presence of a new podcaster who
12:17
has joined the world of podcasting, US1 Percenters.
12:21
We can give a little advice, you know, just getting into it, but
12:23
overall. She wants.
12:25
That overall, we're going to get into sticky situations today,
12:29
some that I don't know what you're about to say.
12:32
So I'm really hoping Linda can help us out.
12:34
Linda Harvey, welcome to the show.
12:40
Everyone is looking for an advantage in their marketing
12:43
that they can digest in a clear, fun format.
12:47
Well, there's one podcast I want to tell you about that's
12:49
changing the game. It's called Your Audience is
12:52
Waiting and it's for business leaders who are done with
12:55
surface level marketing advice. Posted by visibility and content
12:59
strategist Alicia Everett. This isn't a show about posting
13:03
more content. It's about aligning your
13:05
visibility strategy with actual business goals and revenue.
13:09
Alicia helps CEOs, founders, and Ready to Scale business owners
13:14
build strategic visibility ecosystems that position you as
13:17
the authority in your space and convert attention into
13:20
customers. Real frameworks, real ROI Clay,
13:25
that's return on investment. So if you're leading a business
13:28
and you want to grow, go subscribe to Your Audience's
13:32
Waiting wherever you listen to podcasts.
13:39
Welcome, Linda. Thank you, Thank you and
13:43
congratulations on 21. Thank you SO.
13:46
Much, Yeah. Congratulations on yours too.
13:48
What's the name of your podcast? It's in the business of humans
13:54
and we talk about how to navigate your work landscape.
13:59
So it's very niche, but really it's with a former boss of mine
14:05
and we talk about, you know, how can we navigate toxic work
14:09
situations or make better choices at work?
14:12
So we're happier at work. And so that's what my podcast is
14:17
all about. South and 21 is like my, I guess
14:20
you would say my lucky number cuz I, I 21st is of October is
14:26
my birthday. I probably shouldn't share that
14:27
on the Internet, but you. Can probably find it.
14:31
And, and, you know, like I got, I, I felt like I got a platinum
14:35
birthday because I turned 21 on the 21st of the month in the
14:40
first year of the 21st century. So I mean, it was like, I mean,
14:44
I'm just kind of a big deal. That's.
14:45
What I'm saying, you are, you are so special and now you're
14:50
here. That's good luck for us.
14:51
I feel like all of that doesn't line up.
14:53
And then now she's our 21st episode.
14:55
I think there's something happening here.
14:57
Either way, we need to get into these sticky situations because
15:00
we have our guest here who's going to help us and help our
15:04
audience figure out some of this stuff.
15:06
Again, I said it earlier, but so I just like, I don't know what
15:10
you're supposed to do. Like I read them and I got
15:13
stressed. You got stressed.
15:14
I think we should preface this by the reason we bring Linda in
15:18
for these is Linda, this is what you do like all day.
15:21
Like you have a huge following. The last I look it was somewhere
15:26
like 300,000 and one platform, 200,000 other platform.
15:29
I don't know, maybe I'm exaggerating, but I don't think
15:31
I am. And you sit there like in your
15:35
car, just got out of the gym. And I don't know if this stuff
15:38
just comes to your mind, but you were like tackling multiple
15:42
sticky situations in a day, every day of the year.
15:45
Yeah, and I'll, I'll host lives on various platforms and just
15:49
take, I do like basically live coaching sessions for people.
15:53
So this is this is what I do because again, this is the thing
15:56
that people aren't talking about.
15:58
We talk about work in such a different way.
16:01
We go to our friends and our family and we'll complain about
16:04
work, right? And they have crap advice
16:06
because they're in your corner and they just want to support
16:09
you, right? They're just like, just quit.
16:11
And it's like, that may not always be the right thing.
16:14
We can't go talk to our boss because we don't want our boss
16:17
to know that we have no idea what we're doing and we can't
16:20
trust our peers. So really, there are so many
16:23
people out in this space, in life that just don't know how to
16:28
navigate their work situations. And that's all I do.
16:32
And so Clay, I know you are feeling so uncomfortable because
16:35
you're about to read these sticky situations.
16:37
I mean, but first of all, nothing as bad as the tuna fish
16:39
situation we had on our last sticky situation episode.
16:42
So and Linda is not uncomfortable at all.
16:45
She's like, bring it. So let's just like RIP the
16:48
Band-Aid here. Let's get into it.
16:50
Yeah, she's called the guru. So that's there's a reason for
16:53
that. Let's let's.
16:54
See. Let's go.
16:56
OK, first sticky situation. Are we ready?
17:01
Yes. OK, let's go.
17:04
I work when I'm actually productive instead of pretending
17:06
to be busy. 9 to 5, sometimes at 6:00 AM, sometimes it's
17:10
midnight. I get more done than literally
17:13
anyone else on my team. But my manager saw me going into
17:17
the gym at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday and now I'm getting dinged for
17:20
quote not demonstrating commitment.
17:24
End Quote. How do I explain that getting
17:26
stuff done matters more than just being seen at my desk for
17:31
eight straight hours? That's a really good question.
17:36
And one thing I think a lot of employers and employees are
17:40
experiencing, especially post COVID, right?
17:44
Like when we were all remote and we were all doing those things
17:46
like nobody could see us. And so I think we built new
17:48
habits. Yeah.
17:50
And the interest and I and I actually think we're also seeing
17:53
a little bit more of this with Gen.
17:54
Z. So Gen.
17:55
Z is coming into the workforce going like, why do I have to
17:58
work when you tell me I have to work?
18:00
And and it's this old stigma of like, oh, well, we do this,
18:05
right? We work from this block to this
18:07
block. But that's also if you think
18:10
about when our work norms were established, it's before we had,
18:15
we were sending interoffice mail, right?
18:19
We were, we were typing memos and dropping them on people's
18:22
desks. Like this is when the work norms
18:24
are really established. And we still have that old guard
18:26
in place of saying like, well, this is when we work, right?
18:32
So I think for this specific example, it's about sitting down
18:36
with your boss and, and you'll notice we're probably going to
18:39
talk about this a lot. A lot of this boils down to
18:42
communication and having a really good level setting
18:45
conversation with your manager and saying, hey, listen, like
18:50
can you help me understand what, like does it really matter if my
18:56
work is done or if these things are done?
18:58
Like, help me understand, if your employer has communicated
19:01
to you that the most important thing is visibility and being at
19:07
your desk during working hours, then that's the most important
19:11
thing. They don't care when you're
19:16
inspired, they don't care that you're more productive.
19:18
They don't care that your output is higher than everyone else's
19:23
because they the visibility is lacking.
19:26
And so really it's about having that conversation with your
19:29
manager and saying, hey, help me understand like this is this is
19:32
how I work best. This fits me the best.
19:35
And of course, like if you are in a space where you can go and
19:38
have an accommodation made, like if you have a company where you
19:40
can go get working hour accommodations, go speak to your
19:44
HR team. Go have that conversation and
19:46
see if you can get that adjusted.
19:49
But have the conversation with your manager first.
19:52
Allow them to see kind of where you're at to join you on your
19:55
journey. And if they're unwilling, then
19:58
they've shown you exactly who they are and what matters most
20:00
to them. I agree 100%.
20:02
I've the only thing I would add to that is the, there's an
20:07
assumption that this manager appears to be making that there
20:12
is a lack of commitment, which means to your point, Linda,
20:15
there's not there's a communication lacking of the
20:18
value that is being happening at 6:00 AM or that because if
20:21
they're just assuming that they're not there, so there's no
20:23
value, then why are they not seeing the value?
20:25
And what's the gap there as well, which is another great way
20:28
to approach it. That's not just about the
20:30
working hours, but about like driving it home to the value.
20:34
So if you're assuming that I'm not committed, are you not
20:37
seeing my value like otherwise? And and starting at that
20:41
conversation too, to help get to the point, which is what you're
20:44
saying, it's got to be value based.
20:46
Yes. I think it's often hard to
20:49
measure. Like I think I think some of
20:51
these remote bosses are struggling to figure out how to
20:56
measure across their team and different roles like
20:59
productivity and a very not subjective way.
21:03
And so I think we're kind of hiding behind that.
21:06
You need to be in the office sometimes because we can't quite
21:09
figure that out correctly. Like it takes energy of the
21:12
leader to understand what am I valuing?
21:15
Like they have to put thought and to be like what is a good
21:17
outcome, what is a good performance?
21:18
And if they're not there, then it puts work on them to measure
21:21
it that way, which is hard. It is hard, but that's why I
21:24
think what Linda said was so important.
21:26
Like we're going to talk about communication a lot.
21:27
I, I agree we probably will talk about communication a lot
21:30
because there is something about over communicating what you're
21:35
doing, how you're doing it that like these things matter.
21:38
Like right now as we try to like figure out this shift.
21:42
By the way, I, it worked pre e-mail what?
21:47
And I remember those interoffice memos and they had like those
21:51
strings around them. What did we put?
21:53
In them, I honestly can't remember what we put in them.
21:56
Was it? What was in there?
21:58
What were we Interoffice? Meowing, I used to send just
22:03
notes to people. I would just send a note and be
22:06
like hey, how's your day? How did they get from one person
22:10
to another? There was a guy with a cart.
22:13
And they'd. Walk around with the cart and
22:14
they would move. And then they put them in these
22:16
like mail slots. Oh, like in Mad Men?
22:19
That's not funny. Sorry.
22:20
Yeah, you got them out. And I mean, I think I put
22:24
reports in them like I print reports and I like got it out to
22:27
the executive team if I recall, but I don't remember what I got.
22:30
Hey return to office. Do you think more people would
22:32
be psyched if you could have someone deliver little notes?
22:35
If you totally. You mean like a little
22:38
electronic person who would like run through your computer and
22:41
then give you a note? Because that would be great.
22:43
Like a. Little Clippy.
22:45
No, I'm talking physical notes. Person comes to your desk and
22:49
says hey what you got for 6th floor?
22:52
Yeah, they would for something. If there was a martini cart on
22:56
the cart as well, I think people would be excited about that.
22:59
Just like man, then, yeah. Yeah, they would.
23:02
No. Then it's going to become like
23:04
sending your Valentine's Day in high school, you know, that day
23:07
where you're like, did I get a Valentine?
23:09
Did I? But then you were like the one
23:10
that didn't get the Valentine. That's what that would be.
23:12
And. I'm sorry, were you doing that
23:14
in high school? Is that the right reference?
23:16
That was an elementary school thing, right?
23:18
Were you were you guys still making your Valentine's boxes
23:20
and I? Didn't pay for them in high
23:23
school. Yeah.
23:23
You paid to, like, send them. Oh.
23:25
Like the roses? Yes, yes, and you can upgrade
23:30
and have the choir team sing to you do.
23:33
You know what was the worst is my mom would send me the
23:37
Valentine's roses because she was so terrified that like a boy
23:40
wouldn't send me one, which is super.
23:42
Sweet, that's not the worst, that's the best.
23:45
I love your. Mom.
23:46
Oh, who sent you? You know the roses?
23:49
My mom was. The answer was sweet.
23:52
Anyway, go ahead. I digress.
23:56
That's when you learn to like, not tell the truth and say like,
23:59
I don't know, secret admirer. Oh, why I wish I should have
24:04
been a worse kid. I would do it so differently.
24:06
You're right, Linda, that would have been so much better.
24:09
All right, sticky situation #2 take us away, Clay.
24:14
OK, Actually, Linda, can you sum up in one sentence your advice?
24:19
Just to recap for the. Yeah, go have a conversation
24:23
with your manager, find out where the disconnect is, and
24:27
just get really clear on what's expected and what your working
24:30
hours need to be. I'm going to come back to you
24:33
for a recap on every single one of these, OK?
24:35
That was really good. Perfect.
24:37
I know. This is what I do all day.
24:39
Oh. My God bless.
24:41
You here right now. Yes, the.
24:43
Guru. Yeah.
24:44
OK. All right.
24:45
All right, next my 62 year old boss just told me I'm going to
24:51
do a voice. You millennials don't want to
24:55
work hard enough after I said I couldn't afford a house on my
25:01
salary. He bought his house in 1987 for
25:05
89,000 U.S. dollars and now it's worth 2.3 million U.S. dollars.
25:13
Of course, because he probably dropped it into the
25:14
conversation, I make the. Zillow that.
25:18
Oh, you Zillow it. Yeah, that makes Yeah.
25:19
What's yours estimate? I make the same salary he did.
25:22
Then when you ingest for when you adjust for inflation, the
25:25
same. How do I have this conversation
25:28
without losing my mind? I I do have a lot of questions
25:35
number one on like why you know your boss's address and like
25:38
their. House and those types of things
25:39
so I. I have a lot of questions.
25:42
I also feel like dropping in the fact that this person was 62 was
25:46
just completely irrelevant. So this, these were pieces of
25:49
information. I don't think that I need it
25:52
because I think, I mean, if we're going to talk about bias,
25:54
I think #1 you're coming in with some bias and you're coming in
25:56
with some assumptions as well. So like, be careful.
25:59
Sit down, put it down. My daughter would tell me to put
26:01
it down. So here's the thing, first and
26:05
foremost, not every conversation needs to be had.
26:10
So coming in and having a like, why are you, are you making this
26:14
claim because you want to get a raise?
26:16
Like if you're having this conversation because you're
26:18
saying like, hey, listen, with the price of homes and with the
26:21
price of everything based on my salary, I don't make enough in
26:25
order to buy a home. This is not a solid negotiation
26:29
tactic for getting a raise. Never say your expenses go up.
26:35
Yeah, yeah. And then and then if your boss
26:39
is saying you millennials don't want to work hard, I also think
26:42
that there's something that's there too similar to our last
26:44
situation of like, what's the perception of your work or
26:47
what's your output? So there's a few things I think
26:50
for this person to just unpack in general and get really,
26:53
really honest with themselves on.
26:55
But I think it's also like, do you need to have this
26:58
conversation? If your conversation is more
27:01
passing in flippant, don't say flippant passive passive things
27:05
to your boss because obviously they're just going to try and
27:07
get a dig in on your, your age range, right?
27:11
Which is ridiculous. So first and foremost, I think
27:14
like you need to evaluate, is this a conversation that you
27:17
need to have at work and with your boss?
27:19
If you're like, yes, I do because I'm trying to negotiate
27:22
a raise, you need a better tactic.
27:24
You need to talk about your work output.
27:26
You need to talk about like your responsibilities.
27:28
You need to talk about the scope of your responsibilities, how
27:32
they have gone from what your job description started out to
27:35
of what you're doing today. So, you know, I, I have a lot of
27:39
things to say obviously on this one, but I think that this is
27:43
may not be the conversation to have with this person because it
27:46
doesn't matter what you say, they are not going to see eye to
27:50
eye with you in this concept of like, I can't afford a home,
27:53
which I mean, I don't think anybody can afford a home any
27:56
longer. I think about my children and
27:58
I'm like, I don't know how they're going to do it based on
28:01
wages in the United States and, and all of the things.
28:04
But for this person, I would say, is this a conversation
28:08
worth having at work? Yeah, I totally agree.
28:12
I think it's interesting, you know, the the common itself.
28:18
I would really want to know the context.
28:20
It could have been an off the cuff, you millennials don't work
28:22
hard enough or it, it seems to have ignited something in this
28:26
person where maybe that was something they were bringing
28:29
with them growing up or, you know, is do they have this thing
28:32
about being misunderstood about their work?
28:34
But all of these other tangential issues of inflation
28:38
and the guy's age or you know, the his opinion, it, it seems
28:43
very vague. And so really checking in with
28:46
yourself first to say why, why am I so ignited in this way?
28:49
What, what is what is really underneath this?
28:51
And if it is a dissatisfaction with work or you feeling
28:54
appreciated, that is a totally different Rd. than just
28:58
confronting somebody in anger or, or being offended, frankly.
29:01
So I think stopping and taking that pause that we keep learning
29:05
about to say, where is this coming from?
29:07
Where is my gut reaction coming from that I'm going to feel like
29:10
I'm going to lose my mind if I have to confront this guy.
29:13
And I really agree with your thing.
29:15
Is this a conversation that needs to be had?
29:17
Is there an issue here or is this just a?
29:19
I agree that these are kind of two separate issues.
29:22
Right? Like 1 is about like Linda you
29:26
said like no ones be able to afford houses.
29:28
Like you know what? I remember getting this exact
29:30
same sticky situation with my husbands parents when they
29:33
couldn't understand why we were having trouble putting food on
29:37
the table. And we're like, well, childcare
29:39
cost $25 a week for you guys and it costs US $40,000 a year for
29:44
childcare. So like there's a real issue
29:46
wrapped in there. But this has nothing to do with
29:48
work, right? Like work is probably, there's
29:51
just probably some real generational tension happening
29:56
here. And it's not about the money.
29:58
It's just there's, and that's just a interpersonal and that's
30:01
learning how to work together. But I, I kind of feel like you
30:05
have the best advice. Linda, give us your Give us your
30:07
recap. Yeah, again, evaluate if this is
30:11
a conversation that's worth having at work.
30:13
Is this something again, what's what's the motivation behind
30:17
having this conversation? And then re evaluate kind of
30:21
where you want the conversation to go and to not lose your mind.
30:25
Just don't have the conversation if it's not worth having.
30:28
Yeah, I agree. That's actually great advice.
30:33
Sometimes. Just don't pick the fight, Walk
30:35
away. Yep.
30:37
All right, Clay, bring us to the next sticky situation, the one
30:40
that makes you so uncomfortable, Clay, and that you don't have to
30:43
have a, a voice that is like, I think I'm closer in age to that
30:47
person that you just gave a voice to.
30:48
I'm like, what's my voice, Clay? What's a 52 year old's voice,
30:52
Clay? No, I was just, I was doing a
30:55
voice because I saw myself in this person's question, because
31:00
I'm a millennial. And oh, not as a 62 year.
31:02
Old no. And I was just, I was just
31:05
helping this person get that cathartic, like, yeah, let's get
31:08
it out so then we can actually focus.
31:10
On the issue. Crotchety old man voice this.
31:13
Poor 62 year old man was probably like oh back when my
31:17
day. So now, oh, so you get to do a
31:19
voice, but I can't do a voice? OK, 62 is not that far away.
31:25
I, I think we need to, you know, isn't like Tom Cruise 62 like
31:30
let's, let's not. He's not like 68. 92 OK, all
31:36
right. If you're 62 years old and
31:38
you're listening to this podcast, just to be clear, we
31:40
love you. We love you and really sorry
31:44
about the voice thing earlier. OK next my boss yells like all
31:49
the time I'm. Nervous though.
31:52
He full on screams at people in meetings, rows, things when he's
31:56
mad, pens folders and his phone once which that's like.
32:02
Stupid. And everyone just acts like this
32:06
is OK. I've talked to some folks about
32:08
it and they just say this is his management style.
32:12
I've been here three months and I'm already updating my resume.
32:15
Please tell me this isn't normal.
32:18
Yeah, this is not normal. This is unacceptable behavior,
32:21
period. The end.
32:23
Full stop. Unacceptable behavior.
32:26
So first and foremost, I mean, I, I'm not an attorney, so I
32:29
can't advise on legal matters, but I would probably speak to
32:33
1:00 just because this is absolutely unacceptable.
32:37
And the fact that people are like, oh, that's just his
32:38
management style. That's just that that is no
32:41
one's. So no, most places are not like
32:44
that. Most places are not like that
32:47
and you should be making some noise and and you should
32:51
absolutely stand up for yourself.
32:52
Don't go to the meetings like I wouldn't go.
32:54
I'd say I don't feel safe Now you know, if, if the workplace
32:59
is unwilling to address this and HR is not taking steps to like
33:05
ratify the situation and improve it, you should definitely go.
33:09
I'm I'm not telling you to stay and try and survive through
33:11
this, but I would make noise because this is unacceptable
33:16
behavior. Yeah, I, we, we talked a little
33:20
bit about a boss I have on our last episode.
33:23
And he was very much like this. And he was one of the, like,
33:28
founders of the company. So he wasn't going to go
33:31
anywhere. And I was told it's just his
33:33
style. And I mentioned last week I had
33:35
some like, empathy for him because he like, had a rough
33:39
upbringing. But it doesn't make it OK.
33:41
And the only message I want to give to add on to what Linda
33:46
said is 23 year old Blakely did not know what to do.
33:52
I did not know who to talk to and I didn't feel comfortable
33:55
talking to anyone. And so I agree with Linda, it's
33:59
not OK. And I just want 23 year old
34:02
listeners to listen to Linda because it was we suffered under
34:09
him and it was awful and you should not have to suffer in
34:13
that kind of environment, full stop.
34:15
And we do have a lawyer on the call.
34:18
So lawyer Heather, wear your glasses.
34:20
Do you have them? I do you want me to put them on?
34:23
This is magic put. Them on, put them on.
34:26
Here it goes. Do they have to take this
34:28
lawyer, Heather? They love the glasses.
34:31
They yes, I feel smarter. So no, you do not have to take
34:39
this. I will say the tricky part is
34:43
this for employment discrimination claims, it does
34:48
have to be based on a protected category.
34:51
So we don't know the category of this person who wrote in, but it
34:58
could potentially raise to bullying, which isn't illegal of
35:03
in all states. But if you are repeating it over
35:07
and over and you can show that and it continues and then you
35:12
are getting like poor performance or something, then
35:15
that could rise to the level of a what's called the retaliation
35:18
claim. So it's not that you have no
35:21
recourse. It's just a little bit more
35:22
difficult unless you're part of a protected category based on,
35:26
you know, race, gender, religious status, all those
35:28
things. So definitely bring it up.
35:32
Absolutely report it. Refuse to comply with that type
35:36
of behavior as just there's probably most employees have a
35:41
employers have a code of conduct in their handbook and that would
35:46
be a clear violation of your business code of conduct.
35:49
Absolutely report it. That's documented.
35:52
You do not have to stand for that behavior.
35:54
And then absolutely Polish your resume.
35:56
If that person is the CEO. I would be not trying to change
36:00
it from the inside out. I would just find another place.
36:02
If it was a manager that could be worked out of the
36:06
organization based on enough people complaining, it might be
36:08
worth sticking around and impacting your environment for
36:11
change. But yeah, if it's coming from
36:13
top leadership, I'd just go somewhere else.
36:16
Save yourself. Yeah, it's probably true.
36:19
Can I address one other part of this, which is everyone just
36:24
acts like this is OK? That part of it, the social
36:29
aspect where. Do you think?
36:30
Everyone else is just agreeing with it.
36:33
You know, if if you're following the advice of our podcast, it
36:41
might look like you might feel like you're being gaslit by your
36:47
workplace, by how everyone else is just making it through, you
36:51
know, saying it is OK. Yeah, and that would be ripe for
36:54
retaliation because if that's true, then the complaints would
36:58
potentially fall on deaf ears, in which case you become the one
37:02
that's not playing along, and then all of a sudden you're not
37:05
pulling your weight, you're not doing your job, They're finding
37:06
issues with your performance, so.
37:09
So not to expand the sticky situation, but then what do you
37:12
do? That's a situation where I would
37:14
up and get out of there. And if you couldn't for
37:17
financial reasons or this just wasn't an option, then you would
37:22
need to make formal reports to HR and then document every
37:27
single meeting one-on-one because they're documenting it,
37:31
right? Linda, you've spoken to this on
37:33
your, I don't know if it's your podcast or your recent episodes,
37:36
but you know, they are documenting through every
37:38
e-mail, through every Teams message, every Slack message
37:41
that is documentation. And so you have to be very
37:44
careful, be blameless, don't be going and you know, impacting
37:48
other people's work or taking away.
37:50
Make sure that you are just continuing to do your job as
37:53
well as possible, and be very careful about every single thing
37:55
you put in writing you do. Look at my socials.
37:59
I do. I look.
38:02
Can I listen? Yeah.
38:05
We all need your help, Linda. Yes, it is and and the
38:09
documentation piece, I think when I was I again, first and
38:14
foremost, if I were to summarize what I said you do this is not
38:17
normal. It is unacceptable behavior and
38:20
you do have some you might have some recourse, right, like you
38:24
and you have options. And again, hopefully it's not a
38:28
situation where you have to stay there.
38:29
But I would get out, right, But I would get out but and also
38:33
make some noise. I would make a lot of noise.
38:36
But the other thing that is so crucial is the documentation
38:40
because if it's not written, written down and never happened.
38:44
And so you absolutely have to write down what was said
38:48
verbatim, what was thrown like ever who was in the meeting
38:52
because sadly, the burden of proof will always sit on your
38:55
shoulders. And so it's critical if you're
38:58
going to make a claim or you're going to make a file, a formal
39:01
complaint, or even if you were to go see counsel, you would be
39:05
asked for this evidence, for this documentation.
39:08
And, and, and I'm sorry, but the burden of proof sits on your
39:12
shoulders. So write things down, keep
39:14
detailed notes. Just don't put them on your work
39:16
computer. Yes, because they can wipe it
39:20
the second you walk out of there so.
39:22
That's why I have that notebook, you guys.
39:24
They do, they can wipe it while you're sitting there.
39:27
They they don't even need permission.
39:28
They log everything. So if you're keeping a detailed
39:31
record, also don't tell people you're keeping a detailed
39:34
record. These are amateur moves, but
39:36
like, don't do it and then don't keep it on your work computer
39:40
because they can see everything. Yes, write it down in a little
39:43
notebook. I was just going to pull out my
39:46
burn book. Oh.
39:47
She's got one and she's documenting stuff on us.
39:50
I do. I have my It's My Brand book.
39:54
Oh my gosh, they're sticky tabs. Is there is there one called
39:58
Heather was one of the tabs? Yeah, it's like all the shit
40:02
Heather does. To make my life more fun, yeah.
40:07
Clay's poor performance when he name drops other podcasts.
40:13
It's all here. My brand book making notice.
40:16
Everyone should have a brand book locked at their desk.
40:18
You have one locking draw at your desk.
40:20
That's what goes on it. We've talked about this before.
40:23
And whiskey, Yes. Yes.
40:26
The emergency tequila can we still.
40:28
Do that. We used to do that.
40:29
Yeah, everybody does that. I always loved it when they
40:32
ring, they rang the sails Gong we were allowed to get the
40:35
whiskey out. Oh, really?
40:36
I'm sorry, what? There's a gong.
40:40
We had a gong. Do the big sale.
40:42
There's a gong and like the. The Bros ring the gong, but it
40:46
means like the. Why is it gotta be?
40:47
Bros unlocks 'cause it was back then.
40:51
It's not. Anymore.
40:53
Although I did have a like a superpower enterprise like sales
40:59
girlfriend who was awesome so she rang the gong.
41:01
We did too, Mackenzie and then. We did the tequila shots.
41:05
Wow. Whiskey.
41:07
Tequila. Whatever, at least you didn't
41:08
make You probably didn't do that many tequila shots though,
41:10
because you didn't have that many sales.
41:11
So it's not like everybody was getting drunk at work, right?
41:14
Are we talking about our our companies?
41:16
A. We never had a gong at our
41:17
company and we did not do tequila shots at our company.
41:20
I. I thought.
41:21
That's what you were talking about and we made more in sales
41:24
than you. So like, let's stop all this
41:26
comparison yesterday. You're right.
41:28
Now, what's the next sticky situation?
41:31
We've got time for one more before we need to wrap.
41:33
That's it. We.
41:35
Never have enough time for Linda.
41:37
OK. We've got time for one more, so
41:40
I'm going to ask what do you guys want to talk about?
41:44
Do you want to talk about gossip at the office?
41:47
Do you want to talk about a boss revoking PTO or do you want to
41:54
talk about? I want to talk about PTO.
41:58
Like if I'm picking I want to talk about PTO.
42:01
OK, so we'll do 2, but I'm gonna you gotta keep it short.
42:05
OK, we'll keep it short. First one we're gonna get to
42:07
here we go. Sticky situation.
42:10
My boss treats me like a friend and is constantly gossiping
42:13
about others on the team. It makes me uncomfortable,
42:17
especially because I wonder what she says to other people about
42:21
me. Confronting it feels a bit
42:23
dramatic, but continuing to pretend I'm enjoying the
42:26
conversation feels like a betrayal to who I am.
42:30
Help. That's real.
42:33
Yeah, that's real. And it happens more than I think
42:38
we'd like to admit. And again, because managers are
42:42
just as lonely, I think the managers are actually the
42:44
loneliest employees of all. And the higher you go in the
42:49
management trail, the lonelier you get.
42:51
And so they look for people to connect with and have these
42:54
conversations. But if it makes you
42:56
uncomfortable the first thing I would say is when they come and
43:00
have the conversation with you. I would just say hey this
43:04
actually makes me really uncomfortable.
43:05
I'd rather not have this conversation.
43:07
That's so hard to say because it's so awkward and then you
43:10
feel like you're being high, like better than thou kind of
43:13
person, isn't it? You just also kind of nip it in
43:17
the bud. But you're totally right, like
43:19
she's, you know, you're 100% right.
43:21
I'm just saying, like, I want to acknowledge that is a very
43:24
awkward thing to do because it's like shaming the other person.
43:30
Mm Hmm. It's hard.
43:31
Yeah. Is there a way to say it That's
43:33
not shaming? Well, you should shame them.
43:37
Shame. On them for doing it.
43:40
So. There's that.
43:43
Yeah, if you yes, if you can't, if you are in this position
43:47
where you're like, I am never gonna say that it makes me
43:50
uncomfortable. I'd rather just sit and be also
43:53
uncomfortable cuz you're allowing their comfort to be
43:56
over your comfort right? And the next.
43:58
Thing I would do is I would just say like, I gotta go, you know,
44:02
like. Make an excuse to.
44:04
Leave the conversation. Just you.
44:07
Know what I really I do? I've gotta go.
44:10
I have this call. I have this thing start just
44:13
having reasons to stop having the conversation.
44:16
Actually that's really good because they, they, they don't
44:18
have anything to feedback off of, right?
44:20
Yeah. So is that what you mean?
44:21
It's like, because if you're encouraging it, then it's like
44:23
encouraging the conversation versus kind of shutting it.
44:26
Like actually I, I need to step out.
44:27
Then they know, oh she's not into this, especially if you
44:31
shut it down a couple. Times.
44:33
I mean, they probably aren't astute enough to realize that
44:36
you're not into it, but eventually the conversation just
44:39
will stop happening because you always have a reason to go,
44:42
right? They will pick up on something.
44:43
They may not be astute enough to understand what they're picking
44:46
up on. They will pick up on something
44:48
and they'll just go find somebody else to gossip with,
44:50
Which again, is why I think the best thing to do is have the
44:53
conversation of this. This actually makes me really
44:56
uncomfortable. Or I really don't like talking
44:57
about my Co workers this way. Or I really, I feel like you're
45:01
and you can say something like I feel like you're putting me in a
45:04
really uncomfortable place when you come and talk to me about my
45:07
colleagues. I feel uncomfortable with that.
45:10
So that would be my very first advice.
45:13
Then escape. And then the third piece of
45:16
advice would be like, give them nothing.
45:18
So go grey rock. Just be like, oh, yeah, I
45:20
haven't noticed. Do not engage.
45:23
So if you feel like you can't get out of those situations,
45:25
you're a terrible liar. You can't be like, oh, I've got
45:27
something else going on. Then the next thing to do is
45:30
just not engage and just go, oh, yeah, I hadn't noticed.
45:34
Nope. Yeah, I don't know.
45:39
I don't know what to tell you. Right.
45:40
These are ways to just like verbally not engage.
45:45
And because they're not getting anything from you, because
45:47
they're not feeding off of this, they will no longer come to you.
45:52
You're just setting somebody else up for that.
45:56
Yeah. OK, we've got it.
45:58
We're moving on. That was amazing.
46:00
Go grey rock. I like that.
46:02
Go grey rock. OK, Linda, you've been waiting
46:05
for the PTO one. Here comes.
46:07
Yes. I requested PTO paid time off
46:11
several months ago for a family trip this spring break.
46:16
My coworker quit last week and my boss and I are the only ones
46:19
that know how to do her job. My boss just told me that he is
46:23
revoking his approval for my PTO because the team needs me.
46:28
This is a horrible situation for me and my family.
46:31
Do I have any options? Linda help?
46:38
Well, your company just showed you how much they value you
46:41
because if your boss knows how to do the job and they're
46:44
cancelling it, and it also shows you the caliber of boss you've
46:47
got. But first and foremost, people
46:50
think that their PTO is theirs. It's really not.
46:55
It's a company benefit that can be cancelled just like your
46:57
medical insurance. Your boss just communicated to
47:00
you how valuable you are not. And I know that they said it in
47:04
a value statement of like, oh, the team needs you.
47:06
We can't do it without you. Well, surprised if you died
47:10
tomorrow, your team would have to figure it out.
47:13
So your manager needs to figure it out as far as is there
47:16
anything that you can do? You can call out sick now your,
47:20
your employer's going to know, right?
47:22
And they might hold you accountable that way.
47:24
But I mean like, you could just not go.
47:31
I am not a big fan of like, although I've mentioned being
47:33
dishonest a few times on this call.
47:34
Maybe I. Am a fan of being.
47:36
Dishonest, I think. I think I have some soul
47:38
searching to do after this, but we really hold so much more
47:43
power than we think that we do. And we're operating out of this
47:47
place of fear of being held accountable.
47:49
But if you're willing to be held accountable and you're willing
47:52
to do those things and you've already prepaid for your
47:54
vacation or you've spent all of this money or you are going to
47:57
lose your PTO, I might just not show up.
48:02
I think that's also demonstrates a lack of creativity on the
48:04
company and the boss. Like I get there are mission
48:08
critical jobs out there, but if you're in a mission critical
48:11
position, you kind of, you know it, right?
48:13
And you know, if someone quits that you're going to be up like
48:17
you're kind of prepared when you're in working in one of
48:19
those mission critical jobs, all these other jobs like what,
48:23
what, why, why are why aren't we just like saying, hey,
48:27
customers, we're short staffed. We're going to be delayed on
48:31
your customer service responses this week.
48:33
Or I, you know, you see small shops shutting doors being like,
48:37
yeah, someone's out sick. Like it's OK for us to all slow
48:42
down our corporate wheel. It's OK to slow it down and
48:46
allow our employees to have this pre approved PTO.
48:52
So I don't know, I get, I get tired of this kind of stuff,
48:55
like we're just in a rat race for what reason, you know?
48:58
Yeah, I think, I think we need, we need to stop assuming and
49:04
taking things so personally. I think the boss's gut reaction
49:09
to say I'm sorry, you know, I know you requested this but we
49:12
need you skips over the fact that they know how to do it
49:15
themselves. Are they going to be around?
49:17
Is there a way where you could log in on X number of days at
49:21
this time and confirm? Like how?
49:24
How can we solution this instead of just assuming?
49:30
Also, does the boss really understand that it's been
49:32
booked? I mean, gosh, when I would
49:34
review PTO, it was such a fast thing because they would come in
49:38
and you take a quick look at the calendar, Yep, we're coverage.
49:40
I'm not going in three levels deep to understand the context
49:43
of the trip. So I think that we really need
49:46
to be creative with it, stop all of the assumptions on both
49:50
sides, work to do that. And if they're still standing
49:53
ground and it's just unfair, then that shows you exactly who
49:58
they are. Are they valuing you, like Linda
50:00
said? And that's like very revealing.
50:02
And if they're not, what a huge mistake, what a huge mistake
50:06
they're making in that moment. And they're going to have to
50:09
deal with it, maybe not in this immediate moment, but within the
50:12
next six months, right? Because you once, once you feel
50:16
unvalued, it's very hard to get that back.
50:19
Yeah. OK, so we waited for the PTO 1
50:24
Linda, was that the PTO question?
50:27
Did the person's situation make you stressed out at all?
50:30
Did it work out for you? No, I feel, I feel badly for
50:34
them, but I also, I hope that there are other people who I, I
50:39
don't want you to be in this situation, but I hope that the
50:42
whole message is, is that you have more power in this dynamic
50:46
than you think you do. I like that.
50:48
I think that so much of what we're trying to do on the show
50:52
is really shed light on these situations so that people
50:55
understand the power that they do have at work and that they
51:00
have a say in how it goes. So number one, I really
51:03
appreciate that you've come on the show to help our audience
51:06
out, help us out and people who are not going through that this
51:09
these situations right now will probably go through one of these
51:13
at some point. So hopefully, Linda, we can have
51:17
you back on so that you can answer more and then people can
51:20
overtime just be able to, oh, something terrible at work
51:24
happened today. But you know why I'm not
51:25
worried? It's because I'm going to find
51:27
an episode of Not All Business where Linda helps me out.
51:33
That's right. I love that.
51:34
I will be I will be your regular guest.
51:37
Yes, every time we move up a decimal.
51:40
Yes, yes, she's a celebrity guest.
51:42
By the way, we have Linda on Celebrity Guest.
51:45
Celebrity guest and a pro guest because we should also mention
51:50
before we get to our smiles of the Week, Linda, where can
51:52
people listen to your podcast? Where can people find you
51:55
online? What's the best way for people
51:58
to stay up to date with what you're doing and connect with
52:00
you? Yeah, follow me on the Instagram
52:04
TikTok. It's Linda dot leads Linda with
52:07
AY. Make sure you spell it correctly
52:10
or you can come listen to my podcast.
52:12
It's called In the Business of Humans, and I'm pretty much all
52:16
over the Internet in a positive way, which is great.
52:20
So, you know, find me on the Internet.
52:23
I still stand by that your comment section is one of the
52:26
most positive, helpful communities on the Internet.
52:29
If you need some eye bleach, go to the eye bleach, Yeah.
52:35
That's like. Burn.
52:37
Is that for wrinkles? Well, but it cleans, you know.
52:40
Cleans. Cleanses in a burning way.
52:44
It's a weapon. It's.
52:46
It's a metaphor. It's not.
52:49
It's not a good one. OK.
52:51
So I have a sticky situation. Linda, what do you do when your
52:55
Co host and your producer are having some kind of weird
52:59
tension between them in the middle of an episode that's been
53:02
since we got started? Do you?
53:05
I think sometimes you just sit back and watch you just let it
53:08
unfold, right? Sometimes, again, it's sometimes
53:13
it's not about not engaging. Got it.
53:18
All right. OK, so we covered.
53:21
Stop gossiping with people. Stand up for your PTO,
53:25
especially when you've given notice.
53:26
Don't just roll over on that. Don't have conversations that
53:32
aren't necessary. Check in with yourself.
53:34
Find out where it's coming from. If it's not tied to your
53:37
performance or who you are at that company, just, you know,
53:41
make a good decision there. Don't cause trouble unless you
53:45
need to. Stand up for yourself, and
53:47
never, ever, ever stand for someone who is physically,
53:52
emotionally just incapable and unhelpful.
53:59
No abusive behavior, never throwing things, yelling,
54:02
raising voices. They're going to act the way
54:04
they want to, with their friends, with their family, or
54:06
whoever has allowed them to act this way.
54:08
That is never, ever OK in the workplace.
54:11
So you protect yourself, you protect your environment, you
54:14
keep your peace. And then last but not least,
54:18
make sure you're being measured on your actual value and
54:20
contributions. If there's an assumption being
54:23
made whether or not you showed up at, whether you're working at
54:26
a specific time, and that's calling into question your
54:28
commitment, you make sure to be in the ownership and driver seat
54:32
of that value and commitment that you bring to the company.
54:34
And do not let anybody else write that story for you.
54:37
This has been so helpful. I hope, Linda, I really do hope
54:41
that you will come back and we could make this some type of a,
54:44
a cadence. I know you're really busy now
54:45
with your with everything else you have going on, but the fact
54:49
that you are in this every single day is so helpful to us
54:54
because you're seeing all kinds of sticky situations all day
54:56
long coming your way. So appreciate you stopping in
54:58
and giving us your pro tips. Really appreciate it.
55:02
OK. So happy to be here, I would
55:03
love to. Great.
55:05
We, we appreciate that partnership.
55:07
And before we let you go, what brought a smile to your face
55:10
this week? So my husband's on a work trip.
55:15
My children were in school. I blocked my entire calendar
55:19
today and did no things like I sat on the sofa.
55:24
I watched garbage TV. Nice.
55:28
It was scripted. It was a scripted drama that I
55:30
will not share with you because there is shame there, but I
55:33
wanted to make sure everybody knew.
55:35
No, no, you'll never guess it, but I will tell you it's
55:38
scripted because I will not watch a society that celebrates
55:44
bad behavior. So I did that and then I just
55:48
got ready for this podcast. So it's been a good day.
55:51
That's. A good day.
55:52
Thank you for putting us in on your day of nothing.
55:55
That means a lot. That's a sacrifice for sure.
55:58
Thank you, Blakely. Clay.
56:03
I I know we're well into the new year, but I forgot to share with
56:07
you guys my favorite Christmas gift so I'm just going to unbox
56:11
it. Right now.
56:13
What is it? Red box with bells on it.
56:16
It came with a note, so I'll read you the note real quickly
56:19
and then you'll see why my smile.
56:21
Dear Blakely, this was not intended as a Christmas present
56:25
when you first started your podcast.
56:27
I was trying to crochet mug koozies and add quotes like for
56:32
our merch store, right? I've decided that writing small
56:36
things on koozies does not work well in crochet.
56:41
I'm still trying to come up with Anish I'm going to get.
56:44
I was going to get rid of this test but decided to go ahead and
56:46
send it to you. Love Emily.
56:48
So this is my sister and she made me a mug koozie and I don't
56:54
know if it will get picked up on the camera but it says.
57:01
Oops. Did I humble brag again?
57:04
Emily, my new best friend who I've never met yet.
57:08
She's the best. I love that she.
57:10
When I opened this I started crying.
57:13
I was laughing so hard. It was awesome.
57:15
That's hard to do on my mug to. Crochet words in Wow that is
57:20
difficult. But she could be on our merch
57:23
store that we're launching next month.
57:26
So absolutely, absolutely. Thank you, Emily.
57:29
I. Love that that's.
57:30
Perfect for you. She's the best.
57:33
So good clay. My smile.
57:37
Wait, did you just say that's perfect for you?
57:40
Yeah, I said it was perfect for you.
57:42
See what I mean? We still have this tension.
57:44
Come on. What's going on between the two
57:46
of you? Remember that's OK and 2025.
57:49
OK, go ahead. That is not even close to true,
57:54
but we're just going to move on for the sake of brevity.
58:00
My smile of the week was actually completing my jury
58:06
service. It felt really good.
58:08
I actually at the end of it I felt pretty optimistic about.
58:15
What? About what our country, Where is
58:19
this going? What our our judicial system,
58:23
How I was. Wondering why he did stick her
58:27
off. He's so Creek you and proud.
58:31
What? What did they do?
58:34
I don't understand. Well, first of all, I didn't
58:37
even finish my sentence. OK, you're right.
58:40
Sorry. Linda, what do you do when when
58:45
the people, when the people who you work with judge you based on
58:50
half of what you just said? I'm just kidding.
58:52
You're right. OK, We can cut all of that out.
58:54
Start over. Start over.
58:56
Yeah. I walked away feeling like I
59:01
don't. I do not believe that our
59:05
judicial system is perfect by any means, but the people who
59:09
were working that day, all the judges who came and visited us,
59:14
all of the, the system that was in place teaching people about
59:17
conscious and unconscious bias. I at the end of it, I felt
59:22
really, I was like, you know, this is good.
59:27
I was like, there are people working hard every day to make
59:31
the system work and they are not easily shaken or easily going to
59:36
just stop at the end of I felt really good.
59:39
I watched, I watched Spider Man and I, you know, I just kind of
59:46
like had little small conversations with people.
59:49
I was going to ask you that. I was going to add and I think
59:51
this is part of it. I guarantee you if you think
59:54
more about this, this is part of it.
59:56
You were in it together with all those people in the room.
1:00:00
You all got the same notice. You all have other stuff going
1:00:03
on. Instant community.
1:00:04
You found that and all of a sudden you're in this community
1:00:07
and you're sharing this experience.
1:00:09
You're experiencing it live. Oh my gosh, did you see that?
1:00:12
Oh, that's so weird, you know, And there's just this shared
1:00:14
thing which we lack so much today.
1:00:17
We are craving that. I guarantee you that was part of
1:00:19
just the good feeling. Maybe you didn't know where it
1:00:22
was coming from. It's definitely not coming from
1:00:24
our judicial system working very well, I promise you that.
1:00:28
Because you didn't get to see that part, though really you
1:00:30
didn't. You got to see the front of the
1:00:31
like the intention of it, but you didn't get to see it
1:00:33
through. But you got that like community
1:00:36
experience. I bet that was part of it.
1:00:39
It totally was communal, so you're totally right.
1:00:43
Yeah, All right, Heather, what's yours?
1:00:45
So my smile of the week is that yesterday I got a little Amazon
1:00:49
package on my front door with for a much awaited which was my
1:00:54
copy of Lindsay Ferris book How to Smell Your Own Shit.
1:00:59
So it's very easy to read. It's so well written and just
1:01:06
funny and to the point and just it's, it's awesome.
1:01:08
I highly recommend it to anybody.
1:01:11
It's a new take on, you know, kind of that inside voice gut
1:01:15
check and things that we all lean on every day.
1:01:18
And just to dive a little bit deeper into that to make sure
1:01:22
that voice is the one you should be listening to is is worth it
1:01:25
and it's a quick and easy read. Highly recommended.
1:01:27
I'm really enjoying it, so far so very good.
1:01:29
Awesome, yeah. Amazing.
1:01:32
Thanks everybody. Linda, thank you again for
1:01:34
coming on the show. Thank you, special guest star,
1:01:37
thank. You we need to have her like on
1:01:41
the thumbnail with like a star like.
1:01:43
Guest star theme. I am going to put her in a Love
1:01:46
Boat bubble. Special guest.
1:01:48
Star, we do like spirit finger. Yes.
1:01:54
Made him OK. You can check out Linda's
1:01:58
podcast, In the Business of Humans anywhere you get your
1:02:02
podcast. You can follow Linda on TikTok,
1:02:04
Instagram. Do people do Facebook?
1:02:07
Are you on YouTube? No.
1:02:09
I I'm on all yeah, I'm threads, Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.
1:02:16
Yeah, I exist again. Oh my gosh.
1:02:20
No, I drink a lot of Diet Coke. Like.
1:02:23
It's fine. You have sins, don't you?
1:02:26
You have sins right now. I don't.
1:02:28
You hate it when you see it like coming out of someone's like on
1:02:31
their gum and it's like starting to fall out.
1:02:33
Well, I hate that, OK. We're so bad at rapping shows,
1:02:36
we can just keep talking. Linda dot leads on all those
1:02:40
platforms. Zen Free.
1:02:43
Thank you, Linda. Thank you.
1:02:46
All right, Ciao. See you next time.