Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Is Your Main Problem That You're "Too Nice"?

Transcript

Is Your Main Problem That You're "Too Nice"? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
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  Psych mom show. Today, we're going to be talking
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  about when people say that they're only problem in the
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  relationship. The only contribution that they
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  have to the dysfunction is one, they're just too nice.
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  And obviously, I put this in quotes.
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  So you understand that? I don't think this is reality,
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  but before we get to that, please do subscribe.
• 0:27
  I have a lot of subscriber episodes.
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  Most recent is, do you have? Do you have to think about
• 0:33
  self-care as a positive or can it?
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  Also be looked at more objectively such that it like
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  everything else can have its downsides like being selfish.
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  So the theme in a couple recent episodes are more like can the
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  more passive conflict avoidant partner examine their role in
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  the dysfunction, right? So anyway, so moving on to this
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  one. So sometimes when you talk to
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  people they really they act like they are being really objective
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  and they're doing a lot of Soul searching.
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  And they say, you know, I really thought about it and I think
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  that my problem is I'm just too nice.
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  I care too much. I tried to help people to excess
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  and I just put myself last well, yeah, I mean, you know I mean is
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  this a real answer or is it like on a job interview when they ask
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  you what your strengths are and you say you all your strengths
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  and they ask you your weaknesses and you say I'm just too
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  perfectionistic and I give too much to the job.
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  Like give me a fucking break, right?
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  So The people that say that they're too nice they fall into
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  two categories. I didn't extreme they're truly
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  covert narcissists. People that act like Martyrs and
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  really get off on being like the good one at all times.
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  And again as I've discussed it's not like narcissism means that
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  you're a monster something, it's a defense from your upbringing,
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  it's something that's a way that you learn to be from modeling
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  after a parent and/or from being trained that so it's one of two
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  things when there's any narcissist.
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  Trades or the diagnosis itself. It's either because you're
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  literally modeling on a parent or because you were trained to
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  have no needs and you are basically abused and neglected.
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  And so in reaction to that adaptively, you cultivated this.
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  You know this other persona that could save you and be a comfort
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  to you whether that's that, you're openly so great or that
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  you're covertly. So great.
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  So the covert narcissism is when people act more like
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  professional victims And they're always the good one, they're
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  always the good one and there's a lot of black and white
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  thinking and that's you know, indicated by the whole to nice
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  thing. You know, they only can think of
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  themselves as good. So it, what's their problem?
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  Their problems there too good. Right?
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  And so this can be infuriating to the spouse who is like you're
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  not that nice. You know.
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  Like like people say you know what my problem is.
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  I'm too nice and they'll be in couples counseling and the
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  person's face. So be like here we fucking go
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  again. They'll be rolling their eyes
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  and they'll be like you're not, you're not too nice, you know.
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  Like that's not the thing. Maybe you nice to other people.
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  You're not that nice to me. So what do they really mean by
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  to nice? What does to nice represent as a
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  construct? If interrogated, it really means
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  a few things passive conflict, avoidant, codependent.
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  I mean that's what it means because nice as I've discussed.
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  A lot of guys also say that their problem, they don't get
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  chicks because they're too nice. No women love nice.
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  Nice. Us meaning Pleasant agreeable,
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  you know, positive. There's like there's a
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  dictionary definition of nice, what women don't like is you
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  know, self-effacing to the point of discomfort to those around
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  you and just like differential obsequious yeah that's tough to
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  turn off but nice nice is good. So there's no such thing as too
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  nice than being bad to nice would just be like this,
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  awesome. Super pleasant person that's
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  like positive and affirming and cheerful and just really like a
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  super positive person in the big five traits, you know, that's a
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  personality a way of thinking about personality, the slots of
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  social psychology research on personality.
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  And the big five is one way you guys probably know more about
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  the Myers-Briggs with the entj, all that.
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  But the Big Five personality traits, you could remember.
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  The acronym, ocean openness to experience.
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  Conscientiousness extraversion agreeableness and neuroticism.
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  Agreeableness, does not mean any sort of being a doormat.
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  It means literally being like a go-with-the-flow agreeable
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  positive person that everybody likes to be around that is being
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  nice. And that is good too nice though
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  what the person means is basically a few things, I let
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  everybody walk all over me so then basically I can brag about
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  it by saying I'm too nice. Or I am terrified of any sort of
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  conflict. So, I brush things under the rug
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  until literally, either I explode, or I just completely
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  detach from those around me and or I am completely codependent.
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  So, for example, my husband's, an alcoholic and I'm the one
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  who's buying him alcohol. Just too nice.
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  You know, and none of these things are good.
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  So to those, none of them mean, nice.
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  None of them have anything to do with nice.
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  They are different construct and it's a totally different ball
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  game. If you Oh, up into couples
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  counseling and you say my problems are that.
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  I'm codependent, I'm enabling and I'm conflict averse.
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  Well, shit, you don't sound that great then either, you know, and
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  now we could really play ball because the one person is a
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  compulsive, you know, problem person in whatever way, like
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  they're denoted as the quote problem person in the
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  relationship, whether they have addiction, they have depression,
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  they have anxiety, whatever. But, you know, better because
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  you are enabling their behavior because Of Terror of conflict
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  hating to rock the boat or you literally don't know who what
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  your identity would be without having people's problems to
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  solve or being a professional victim at an extreme of being a
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  covert narcissist. So this to nice thing needs to
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  be explored. If you have any hope of getting
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  an objective, look at your relationship and your
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  contribution. I've written a post.
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  Divorce is time to great. Time to examine your
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  contribution to what went wrong in your marriage, right?
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  And this is like people come into counseling constantly when
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  they're divorcing. This is a great time just like I
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  just recorded a podcast about midlife crisis.
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  It whenever there's something that Spurs Deeper Self
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  reflection because a tremendous event has occurred in your life,
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  such as divorce. Midlife, a Health crisis
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  parenting, it crisis of some sort.
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  These are great times to explore your contribution.
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  The hopes of changing the dynamic.
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  So if you just think of yourself is to nice and then the other
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  person is just a shithead ready that where do you end?
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  I mean a pretty much ends right there.
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  And a lot of people are drawn to this black and white victim
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  perpetrator rhetoric if they grew up here and get at home.
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  So these are the people. I always use my bank example,
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  you know, where the parent goes to the bank and they come back
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  with a story, a story about David versus Goliath, you know,
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  I went up to the Bank teller and I said, can you change these 20s
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  for fives? And you know what she said?
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  She said she couldn't do it. So I said haha why don't you go
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  to the manager and she did and God damn it.
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  I got they tried to not give me fives but I got them anyway.
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  Like, you know, this seems normal when you grow up with it
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  and then you're older and you're like, holy shit other people
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  just go to the bank, you know, I mean no big deal, just went to
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  the bank and like, when everything is You know, set out
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  for you in this good versus evil sort of way from childhood which
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  is associated with numerous things parents.
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  Who struggle with depression with paranoia parents, who have
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  unresolved trauma also extremely religious upbringings.
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  We're literally the stories in the Bible are good versus evil.
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  That's literally David versus Goliath, right?
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  So or or super political homes. Like anything with, there's a
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  good guy and a bad guy, right? And the The good versus evil
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  infiltrates. All aspects of life, such such
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  as every small encounter that a parent has all of their major
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  stories are like when they were the one who stood up to an
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  oppressor or when somebody oppressed them and they couldn't
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  stand up but now they will etc. Etc.
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  So when you grow up hearing stuff like this, then what are
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  you drawn to in your marriage which the only type of marriage
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  that makes sense? A victim and a perpetrator.
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  And so it's easier to be the Because then you're the nice
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  guy, quote unquote, you are the powers of good.
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  So you're going to be drawn to this kind of dynamic and you're
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  not going to really interrogate your own contribution.
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  I had a post years ago, you can find it.
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  I think it's my husband doesn't notice.
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  I'm an alcoholic would be the heading of it and the woman
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  said, oh my God, my husband is such a saint to put up with me.
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  He's this wonderful guy, so smart.
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  He's so brilliant. He's wonderful.
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  I'm Jai just do nothing, you know.
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  And he's so good even that he knows I like to drink like a
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  bottle of wine every night and in order to save money, he's
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  making wine now his own wine or beer or so.
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  I was like, what? In the hell?
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  It was such. It was a classic example of
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  codependent, this man inside. He loves to be the hero so much.
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  He loves to be the good one, so much to be put on a pedestal so
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  much as the good one that he's literally ignoring that, his
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  wife has an active alcohol problem, and instead he's making
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  himself, The Valiant hero that provides the alcohol at a lower
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  cost of the family and it was just such a classic Dynamic
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  which is why I wrote about it. And I think I said something to
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  that effect in my characterization of it, this was
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  an anonymous post or not animus reader.
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  But anyway, the point is some people are so drawn to the idea
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  of themselves being good. And they have to be good at all
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  times that they basically forget to think about whether they are
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  perpetuating the dysfunction of their household.
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  And invariably, it takes two to tango and marriages are 50/50.
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  And if somebody let's say is this depressed difficult person,
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  that just like laser around on the couch, but you're the person
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  who's always running around and fluffing their pillow for them,
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  and never being like, hey, you know, guess what, you know,
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  you're depressed. Something's wrong.
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  I don't know what's wrong, but I know you're not supposed to be
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  on the couch all the time. We need to get you into
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  treatment. What's going on?
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  I can't handle this family all by myself.
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  I need you, you know? Yeah.
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  I mean you got to do that and I talked about that with how men
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  should handle. They're depressed wives, because
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  a lot of men fall into this bucket of saying they're the
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  hero, you know, in this situation, when in reality,
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  they're perpetuating dysfunction By ignoring it.
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  Pushing it under the rug because on some level, they're very
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  comfortable with the rescuing knight in shining armor rhetoric
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  and the same on the woman's end. There's so many women that put
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  up with a husband who is, you know, just an asshole.
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  You know, he's an asshole. He drinks too.
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  Too much, he lays around. He plays video games, barely
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  engages with the kids, but, you know, that is who she is going
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  to make her cross to bear. Probably saw a mother with a
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  cross to bear of her own father. And so now, this martyr thing is
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  super common. So yeah, she rolls her eyes.
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  She calls him her fourth child or her third child or whatever,
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  but she keeps fluffing the pillows metaphorically, and
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  probably literally. And this does not help them and
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  it doesn't help the kids and what they see for damn sure,
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  because they're just going. Placated as she did as he did
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  and it doesn't help anybody. But it's comfortable being in
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  the role of the good one, the nice one that helpful one, the
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  Martyr you know the victim all of these seem better than the
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  bad one, right? But there is no good or bad, you
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  know. There is no good or bad in
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  family systems therapy. We talk about this all the time
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  that I say we they you know, family systems theorists of
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  which I am not a published one but have read family systems
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  theory. This is like minuchin and stuff
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  like a for my psychology listeners.
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  But anyway, they talk about there being a scapegoat and
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  triangulation. There's never, there is
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  situated. A problem person that person is
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  posited by the family as the problem person, but that just
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  this person just takes on all the dysfunction of the unit.
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  There's no really a bad person. There may be like, for example,
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  this happens in families, if one kid has ADHD, right?
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  So this one becomes the bad one. This is the one that act out.
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  This is the one that makes Is all of our houses, so stressful
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  because of this one misbehaves at school.
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  If not for this child, we would be in a perfect happy family.
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  No, you wouldn't know, you wouldn't and people will, of
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  course understand this better because people have more
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  sympathy for children. This normal, you know, but it's
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  the same for adults. So just because your husband has
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  ADHD doesn't make him like, you know a monster, right?
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  It doesn't make him vo problem. A lot of the problem also is
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  that you've allowed him to be his Worst self possibly in
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  situations that I'm describing where you situate yourself as
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  too nice. So two nice always needs to be
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  interrogated. There is no such thing as that
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  being the only problem and also frequently to nice goes along
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  with no sex. This is just anecdotal from
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  hundreds of people. I work with, you know,
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  frequently to nice is like, well, man, I am just so nice and
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  I do so much stuff around the house because he doesn't help,
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  and he doesn't this, and he doesn't that.
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  So we haven't had sex in three, Years.
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  But of course you can understand because I'm always compensating
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  for him it's like oh that doesn't make sense.
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  You know, like that does not make sense.
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  That is an extreme problem and there's no happily married
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  person who would be like, listen to the very good logical reason
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  why we haven't had sex in three years.
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  That's not like a thing. Unless the thing is like we both
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  have zero sexual drive, we don't care.
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  All right, well and good fun, but Otherwise if there's one
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  person that does want to have sex and they have not had sex
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  and, you know, certainly less than three years would be a
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  problem, but three years definitely a problem, then
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  definitely a problem, you know, and it can never really be
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  explained by, and it's just because I'm so busy because I'm
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  living two lives because he basically does nothing.
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  So, I have to do everything. What about we deal with that
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  problem, you know, like before three years have elapsed of
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  sexlessness and people often don't want to and I have a
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  podcast on this when Were functioning isn't is an excuse
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  to avoid intimacy because many men are extremely depressed and
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  many women who have no sex marriages, no touch marriages
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  are extremely depressed because they have no sex and no touch.
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  So, they're even going to be worse, you know?
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  And everything is a vicious cycle.
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  So if you have ever thought or if your partner tells you that,
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  the problem is they're too nice and you're too terrible.
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  Then this can maybe help you flip the script a little bit and
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  understand. It takes two to tango in a
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  dysfunctional marriage and you should get into couples
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  counseling. Yes.
• 15:35
  Yesterday, with the second-best time being today, okay?
• 15:38
  I hope you guys enjoyed this and got something out of it.
• 15:41
  Please do subscribe to more episodes.
• 15:44
  I'll do a subscriber one, please do join my Facebook group and of
• 15:47
  course, do follow me all over social media like Tick-Tock I do
• 15:51
  videos, I do sometimes, I record the podcast, then I'm all hyped
• 15:55
  up and I go do a video that my podcast comes out, you know, in
• 15:58
  a week or two, but the video came out sooner.
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  So if you are following my social media, then you would get
• 16:03
  to see my little videos. All right, I'll talk to you
• 16:06
  later. Bye bye.