Latest / The People Run Podcast / #46 The Heart of the Race | Pro Runner Kasey Knevelbaard

Transcript

#46 The Heart of the Race | Pro Runner Kasey Knevelbaard · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can feel there's like a collective energy that everyone's putting in the race and the spectators are putting out.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think when you can let go of like, okay, I'm in New York, I'm in Boston, this is like a big race.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've trained for six months for this.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I need to run a PB.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you can just like let go and be like, man, like this is something I get to do, like this is fun, like I can feel other people's energy.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so many people have put in so much time and effort into this, and I get to like be a part of that.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've been a pro for quite a while now, you know, under Under Armour.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh shout out to Under Armour.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm sure people often see, oh man, he's a fast runner.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I saw you did Boston 5K and see the races, but what's it like sustaining a pro career for for quite a bit?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm I'm super grateful for it.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think um some of some of my career could it could be a little stressful, I think.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um pro running is I mean, it's a dream.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: It it's really just like being able to chase um the best version of yourself every day, completely unencumbered by anything.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's the biggest thing to me is just like I feel like not a lot of people get such a I mean I started running when I was, you know, 14 years old, so the last decade and a half I've had kind of a pretty soul focus on just seeing what I can do.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a it's a cool thing in life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be running, just like if you can have such a long and consistent commitment to being your best at anything, you can see some really special results.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a lot of gratitude for uh Under Armour and Total Sports and everyone who's you know kind of kept me doing it and gave me the opportunities I had.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I get to travel around the world and run in circles, and and it's uh yeah, you know, it's um it can be stressful at times, but end of the day, the the biggest thing is I love the community.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the thing I love the most is I have an amazing team.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Flagstaff is full of so many great runners that I get the opportunity to meet and hang out with, and you just you get to meet a lot of cool people, and and runners are so down to earth and they're so willing to, you know, talk and be open, and and you just it's just like college where you get this immediate friend group and you get people who are like-minded and they want to do the same thing as you and just less homework, you know.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's pretty ideal.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love that on less homework.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, training with a group definitely does that for sure.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Touching on the getting able to do and test what the best of you is, like, what what's that like for you even now to this day?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I think I mean we've seen the sport, the sport's changing all the time.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I was running the times I'm running now 10 years ago, I'd be, you know, you know, top three, top five in the world, but now it's not even you know top five in the US.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's crazy that like the needles really moved on on what excites people and what's good.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um I think you just kind of gotta move with it, you know, like um the sports developing and changing on what's good and what's exciting.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of cool too.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're getting to watch what seems like a golden era in in track and field and road racing and and the sport in general.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, yeah, in my opinion, it's going through a bit of a renaissance.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like more people are out running, more people are out enjoying the shoes and products, and brands are investing more, you know, Undarmours making tons of great products, you know, all these other companies are making great products that people can really enjoy the sport more.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the more people out there getting fit and getting healthy and and enjoying running, and I mean just enjoying the process of being the best version of themselves, I think is is great.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think the more I can keep pursuing that at the highest level and and trying to chase big goals and dreams and and see what I'm capable of, like, yeah, I think end of the day, if I make a world team, make an Olympic team, run under 13 minutes in a 5k, like that, I mean that sounds good on paper, that's a really great goal.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: But if I could be the very best version of myself and be really happy doing what I'm doing, yeah, that's another important goal that I think people overlooked, you know, just the the mental health, the you know, the being happy with what you're doing.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh I think it that looks the same at every level.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you're trying to break 13 in the 5k or trying to break 20 minutes in the 5K, you can be proud that you you objectively saw that you were the best athletic version of yourself on that day when you're on a PB.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's what's really special about the sport.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like one is uh you know an achievement, the other one's a fulfillment that you get kind of when like everything's clicking, you feel good, and you push it into the best you possibly can.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's what's special about running, is it's it's cool on every level.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think back to when I was in high school and trying to break 10 in the two mile, and it's like that's the exact same feeling when you're you know you're trying to break four in the mile, when you're trying to like it's all like so personal, and it's just like, yeah, I heard a quote from Grant Fisher that said he got the same level of nerves for a league meet in high school that he does for an Olympic final because it means something to him, and that's cool.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like an individual journey of like if it means something to you and you accomplish what matters a lot to you, it really doesn't matter any other person's opinion or what kind of gratification they give to you, it's like you have that yourself.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's why it's such a special sport, and so many people are realizing that it could be really fun.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Touching on like all these crazy records and improvements.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you, man.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're going through definitely a golden era studying the past and looking at where we're at now.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you attribute that to?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's just the tech, the shoes, nutrition, or it's also like just people, more people in it?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can we can dive into a lot of areas of that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think all of it matters.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think one that people maybe overlook that I think is really important is how easily you can share information.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, all of my workouts are on Strava, nothing's really a secret.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can kind of see what I'm doing, and a lot of people are like that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can go on, you know, anyone.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I follow, say Mike Woods, who's a professional uh cyclist, uh, like ties like that, and I can see exactly what people are doing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can see what how Jakob's training or how Omdris Algrin's training, like all of these like great people.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like you can see all of these different techniques and everyone's learning from each other.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think just the transparency of the sport, and then just the the social media aspect of like I think people are more or less doing more similar training now than 10 years ago because people are learning what's working, and there's just from a scientific standpoint, there's more data points on what works and what doesn't work, and then yeah, I think that in conglomeration with the technology, like I think running mechanics and um also like frequency, intensity, all that stuff is different with the shoes.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, before super shoes, I felt like I was a lot more lower leg dominant and pulled through my stride and had a lot of like eccentrically loading my calves.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then now that you have you know these high-stack shoes with low density foam, it's like you don't need to slow your foot down with your calf because the shoe's doing it for you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I've really had to develop and change my running mechanics, and I think a lot of people are like either really benefit from them or learn how to utilize a tool.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end of the day, like a super shoe is a tool, you know, a super trainer is a tool.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think it's the shoe technology, but also I think a big part of it is just the sharing of information, and then I think it's the way the sports organized too, like IAAF setting the standard of okay, it takes you know, 1302 is the standard to make a world team.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: If it was 1320, I think there'd be a lot less people running sub-13 because you know it hurts, you know, you don't want to run harder than you have to to kind of get your goals, and if making the team is your goal and everyone's just so willing to uh to push to that level because every time there's a new championship team to make the standard gets faster and more people do it, and I think that just encourages people to believe in themselves, and then it's just like it's like, oh, I don't know if I could do this.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, there's no option.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you want to get your goals, you gotta have to gotta go for it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's part of it too.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, I think the technology allows uh training to be more accurate.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think I mean I feel like 70% of the people on our team have a lactate monitor, you know.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm training with heart rate every day.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have I've done you know gas analytics, some training and stuff.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that technology, and then I think the the shoe technology allows you to if anything, do more work with less damage on your body, which in turn is doing like kind of like less work, like it's letting people run faster, easier, which is letting people run more.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think yeah, over the last five, ten years, people have just ran too hard, and the shoes making it easier and running the same pace is just like allowing your body to kind of work more efficiently and more accurately.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think a million reasons why people are rubbing fast, but to me, those are some of the big ones.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, for sure, that's a lot, and I appreciate you sharing all that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like from a pro side, there's a lot of insight, but like you said earlier, so many pieces coming together, and that's a lot of pieces.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Casey, you seeing all these times going faster and faster and faster.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: You just touched on it earlier, like, man, a couple years ago, I would have been top three in America, like now, and you just like okay, wait a minute, what's going on?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: How does that make you think?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Feel that you just okay, I just gotta get faster, I gotta keep pushing the envelope, or you go like, man, um, do you have sometimes have to juggle?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let me till here, think of longevity versus trying to get along with this.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um I think yeah, it's it's easy, I think, to be frustrated in a situation where it's like, man, if I was at in a representing a different country, I'd be getting all these goals I wanted to get and how like hyper competitive it is.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other side of the coin, I'm like, I'm so grateful that I have an opportunity to run against the very best runners in the world all the time.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I think the way I look at it too, when you're competing at a really high level, it's just racing people and the times and the times, and it's cool to get excited about the times and it's cool to chase the goals.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I look at running like um I heard a quote the other day of like, you know, professional runners are just that fast kid at recess and never stopped.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really think I really think it is.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we all are just trying to see who's the fastest kid at recess, you know, 10, 20 years later.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're all just trying to figure out like where you sack, where you rank up on on all of your your peers and and the best runners in the world.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm running 1320 or 1250, I just want to go win races.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go be up front and be competitive.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh yeah, I think that's true for a lot of people.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's times are cool and it's cool to see improvement, but racing's a game.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of times we get so caught up and like this defines me.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I could run a 350 mile, I'm a 350 miler.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: That means a lot.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, like we're playing a game, you know, we're just we're just competing and having fun.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think uh whenever I get, you know, like, oh man, like I ran this, and it's just like that would have been good three years ago.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, that's a worthless mindset.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm grateful to be running fast, I'm grateful other people are running fast too.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm grateful to sports, you know, getting pushed.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a better mindset.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something you're saying there is still part of fun too.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't getting faster, like we'd be still be having fun, you know?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's a cool thing too about it.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Could be the technology of the sport, it could just be consistency of the sport, but I think every year it's pretty hard to have a linear progression.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm grateful I've ran quite a few different events, and at least in a year I can get a PB in one, you know, one of three or four events that I've run.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always been something that's been exciting each year, and like that seems kind of obvious to people who maybe are new to running or your first you know, a few years of running.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like PBs come all the time, but you know, once you've been doing it for a long time, and like it's it's hard to be better than you've ever been before over and over again.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so and it's hard to have some like linear progression when you have injuries and sickness and just the way opportunities come up.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I'm have a lot of gratitude for just being able to have some consistency and some just like slowly chip it away um over the years at each event, and I think that's really fun if you can just you know get a little better, be the best version of yourself just by a little bit each time, and that's exciting.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that where the wins come for you in those moments, you know?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you get to a point where like you're very fast and you know you can't PR every day.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is it in that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think um the longer you go, the harder it gets, and the higher up you go, the harder it gets.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um unless you're someone who wins all the time, but like you're running in a high school, there's always gratification because there's always races you're winning.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're running in college, you know, you're winning at the conference level, you're you know, you're competing at the at the NCA level, you're always kind of competitive, and then the needle keeps on moving, and then you get into these races where it's just like everybody was NCA champion, everybody's like super, super fast.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you don't always get the gratification of like I'm at the front of the race, I'm winning the race.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes like your best day is hanging on for two-thirds of the race, and and uh I think that's that can be mentally challenging to you know not be winning races or not be running massive PPs, and you can't can't run PPs all the time.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I like to focus on controlling what I can control, and that's never the outcome.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I work with a mental performance coach, which I think has been a really um pivotal point in the success and longevity of my career, I think.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, I think it's useful for almost any situation to kind of work on the mental aspect of it.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, so a lot of what I focus on is just like process goals, and I'll go to a race.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like you mentioned that BAA race, I was there and did like three or four things wrong in the process leading up to the race and in the race.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Then the next time I ran the race two weeks later, like I ran yeah, I ran a little bit faster and and I finished actually the same spot.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I was like, oh man, like I wasn't in the prize money, I didn't run anything crazy.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's hard to like grasp on some things, but I'm like, man, I I executed my race day nutrition better.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: I executed, you know, my warm-up and my execution mentally before the race better.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a couple of spots where I like ran a little bit tougher and committed to some moves, and like those kind of little things that are like controllable, I think have a lot of value, and I think that carries over in life the same concept.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what's beautiful about running, is it's it's applicable, is like if the lesson I'm learning is like be happy controlling the things you can't control and then let go of the outcome, like that works almost anywhere.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a big lesson of running, is like it's not gonna come to you until you let it come to you, and yeah, you can only control so many factors, so yeah, you're gonna have bad days and it's gonna feel bad, and then you're gonna be grateful for the days when it when it comes and you can't force either of those situations.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess you could force a bad day if you wanted to, but I don't know why that yeah, that one's easier, yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, for sure, and I think something you kind of mentioned working like a performance coach, but I think one of the things is that we get lost in for sure in running is like the moment, like when that win comes, like enjoy it because they don't come every day, like being present.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: We sometimes aren't.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay, what's next?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the things that uh my mental performance coach talks about a lot is finding the heart of a race, which is like just exactly what you said of like being present.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: The concept is like people are giving energy into the race, you're giving energy in the race, and you kind of want to like be a part of that energy.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um you've ran like big major marathons, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you can feel there's like a collective energy that everyone's putting in the race and the spectators are putting out.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think when you can let go of like, okay, I'm in New York, I'm in Boston, this is like a big race.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've trained for six months for this, I need to run a PB.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you can just like let go and be like, man, like this is something I get to do, like, this is fun, like I can feel other people's energy, and so many people have put in so much time and effort into this, and I get to like be a part of that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's a perspective like people miss out on a lot.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, yeah, how much like collective effort and and energy gets put into races, and especially like those big majors that you've ran and stuff like that, is it's cool to see, and it's cool to be a part of.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, 100%.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you touched on something I I think about often in these races, funny enough.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't know this concept, but I I love having it now.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, for example, when I ran Chicago, the at the time, obviously it's been corrected, the world women's record was broken.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm suffering through this race, man, and like around mile 16 for me, 17, there's like these loud speakers, and I'm I could tell me and whoever's around me is struggling in this marathon.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But on the speakers comes the world record, blah blah blah has been broken.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like we were in the middle of uh I go to a movie in my head, like we were going to war, and you just hear all the chants of all the warriors going, ah yeah, and the energy came back to the race, and I kind of almost let go, and I was just like, Look, let's just send it in, have fun, enjoy all these people cheering and you know, shouting.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I love that concept of the heart of the race.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to have your own goals and stuff, but yeah, it's such a beautiful sport when you can kind of just get in and race with people, and yeah, especially in the races I'm in, like my goal if I want to run fast is try to find a race where people are running fast because it's it's impossible.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not impossible, but it's really hard to run quickly by yourself and without uh you know a big pack going, and and yeah, some of the best races I've had, I'm like, I don't know where the clock is, I don't know where I'm at, and I'm just like I'm just competing with the people around me, and we're all kind of suffering and and trying to go as hard as you can, and then you wake up and see the clock with a lap to go, and you're like, oh wow, like this is going really well, and you you know, you're not trying to think about the math each lap on like what you can do, you kind of just let go and and run with the people around you and and feel that energy.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Cool part about it.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Stacy taking it back a little bit, you took a pretty unique route when it comes to college.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking about it even before recording this.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what shaped you most during those college years if you wasn't running?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I think uh I originally went to southern Utah for undergrad.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was really big for me to I went to a really small school, like I went to a really small high school, small part of California, a very rural area.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have a lot of perspective on like how good people are at running, you know, and how um I mean I competed in California, so I saw really good runners, but I didn't really get like train with really good runners on a on a daily basis.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Then that was also my first experience training at altitude, and that it took a while for that to click.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like my first year, it it really did not click at all.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Then when it when it clicked, it clicked, and that was yeah, that was really fun to you know go from not really competing at a at a high level to like just starting to believe in yourself in college, and um, and then yeah, I think at Southern Utah is kind of where I got the taste of like you know competing for all American titles and being, you know, in NCA championships and that kind of stuff.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think it's I think that's when those sports starts getting fun, is when you you go to college and you get your teammates that all are competing for the same thing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something I miss as a professional runner.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have a lot of great people on our team that are super close, but in CA cross country, you have like this special bond of like everyone's working towards a collective goal.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's one of the most beautiful things in sports is like the selflessness about like we're gonna go out there and suffer collectively for a common goal that's bigger than ourselves.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that was huge.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did grad school at Florida State.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, Florida, like we were talking about Florida either earlier, it's a hard place to train with the humidity.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I I loved Florida State, man.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful campus.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: The trails out there is underrated.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea how nice the trails would be.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, like you said, December, January, February, it's perfect.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: 75 and sunny, and and it's hard to beat.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, just the resources and opportunities I had there were were absolutely phenomenal.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I I also like I think transferring is kind of a hard, I mean it's probably easier now than it was back in the day, but it's kind of a hard process.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I love the opportunity I had to, you know, meet so many people at both schools and learn from different coaches and learn how to train at humidity, how to train at altitude, and all this different stuff.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yeah, one of my biggest strengths in this sport is just being able to learn from so many different mentors, so many different coaches, so many different great athletes.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a student of the sport, if you're a student of anything and you just get time and opportunity to learn, I think, yeah, my probably my biggest skill as an athlete is just like knowing that I don't know anything and I have to learn from everyone I meet, and and learning what works and what doesn't work for me specifically because running is such an individual sport, but when you get to go to different colleges, you get to network with you know different great coaches, and those athletes go on to do other great things, and they're with different coaches, and just the running community is a very close-knit community.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I feel like I know people all over the world that I can talk to and learn from, and yeah, I think that's that's a cool aspect of yeah, getting to different schools and yeah, and even even the scholastic level, like I had great uh professors that that acted as mentors even for me in running.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I studied exercise science in undergrad, which is is basically you know like a running degree, and and um I loved it, you know.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was always the guinea pig on the on the lab that you know I did, you know, probably four or five Bruce protocols and all the wind gate tests and pretty much everything that's like testing your body, and and uh I think that was huge for my running career too.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh that was a big turning point of I had a lot of injuries when I was just younger, and then once I learned um kind of how your body works and you know where the muscles are and how how they move and how they attach and and how to engage them, I was able to handle way more trading load, uh way more successfully and consistently.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think that's a that's a huge part of it too.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like people think, man, I just go into school to get a scholarship opportunity to be in the NCAA, but like your classes and your professors can teach you so much about your body and your sport that could be hugely impactful for for your career and longevity too.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in it, in it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You got like the fast running, but you also like all the study of the of the running, if you will.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So combining both together has added a lot.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an important thing is people if you can look at something holistically, you know, from every angle, you can look at the nutrition, the strength training, you know, the sleep.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like all of those things are so underrated.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's way so easy to be like, all right, I'm doing five by a mile at 5k pace with six minutes rest or something like throw out a workout that's really hard and think that's the end all be all for being fast.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really just a small, small portion of like being successful is that one really flashy workout.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's 15 other things that matter just as much.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: What changed for you once you became a pro, you know, leaving college and then eventually you made it to a pro, what changed most for you?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's like the exact same transition from high school to college as college to pro is um I think your awareness that everyone's better than you.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I always when I first started running, I always dreamed of like being a pro.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you ever saw like the flow track videos, like yeah, I watch a lot of those.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Cam Levins was like the first driven.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean that was the reason I went to Southern Utah, was just like that driven alone.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I I loved how much time you can dedicate towards training as a pro.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew that if I had I was gonna be someone who could handle a big training load and be consistent and kind of like I feel like I'm a pretty durable runner and I'm smart enough to handle injuries better.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Where like an NCA system, I think, really lends itself to people that have a little bit more raw talent because the seasons are a little bit shorter and you can't stack quite as much trading as like a professional.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one thing I'd learn too is like we start racing January and you're in racing in September.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a long time to be showing up very, very consistently.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think handling handling the training load and knowing that you have the time to like just put in, you know.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a normal training week, I'm probably doing um yeah, in the fall, I'm doing five double runs a week.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: So weekdays I'm running twice, plus um, you know, Saturday and Sunday, just one run with a long run, and then you're doing uh two gym sessions, you're doing um physio, chiropractor, meeting, like I said, with my mental performance coach, like it's really a kind of a full-time endeavor.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you can you could do more, less and be more successful for sure.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I think that's one thing that like the transition was helpful for me, and I've really enjoyed it's just like like I was talking about earlier, how much is like completely unencumbered, like everything is working towards this goal, which I think is is really cool.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And uh again, like what I was saying earlier, like everyone I know is like best in the NCA, best, you know, running so good, or even if they weren't, they've developed so much, so there's so much to learn from, you know.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have so many teammates that are just great friends and great mentors and and you know, great people to learn from.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think that's a I don't know if that answered your question exactly.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then some might say for sure, but talking about the team, you know, you're talking about Dark Sky, I'm assuming your team you're part of, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So so everyone's just like beast.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah, 100%.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's it like showing up every then every day with that crew?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got teammates running, y'all all doing 100 miles, everyone's doing two a week, uh uh, you know, training stretch rations, etc.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's amazing for your level, like potential level success, because it moves the needle on what you think is good.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you know I was at college, I think I could get away with being less diligent with you know sleep or nutrition or you know, kind of anything else, because I could show up to a workout and nobody could drop me in the workout.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like, oh yeah, like I can be as good as I need to be, but once you get to a level when you're on a really good team, it makes you be so much more serious, like just subconsciously, because it's like, man, if I don't like do all my stretching and foam rolling and activation and hydrate properly, I'm gonna look stupid when I can't keep up for half this workout.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to be embarrassed.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I think also too, like if you can't keep up in a workout, like that's not the end all be all.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, people can get you know too focused on one workout.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have teammates who get dropped in a workout and then run incredible races, and they're really good because they know in their head like exactly what they need to do, and they're really good about it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the flip side to that, too, is like sometimes it's really hard when it's like maybe things aren't immediately clicking, or you have a few hard workouts, or you're tired, and it's just like, man, like there's like 15 guys that could drop me in this workout today.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's hard to be confident, um, it's easy to be humble though.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think I'm really grateful.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I love my team.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have probably one of the most underrated teams in the world in terms of like I feel like people, when you think of like running shoe companies, Under Armour may not be the first one that's coming to mind.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think we've gone a long way and proven, especially with athletes like Cheryl Ketty, who's winning these major marathons, that like Under Armour is a legit legitimate brand within the running space.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we have so many successful athletes, you know, within our team.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have guys like Edwin Kergat running the 2640s in the 10K.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you can't deny that, you know, guys like Neil Gurley running, you know, 347 in the mile.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you you're around greatness, you know, every day, and then you just kind of start to expect that of yourself because like I was saying earlier, you're trying to be the fastest kid in the playground, and then it's a really hard playground, so it really raises your level of self-ex uh expectation subconsciously, which I think is is really advantageous at this level of sport because everyone's so good, and yeah, I think one of the biggest attributes to our team is just like we're just we're boys, we're friends, you know.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: We always love each other.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's important, yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably yeah, it's probably my favorite part about being a professional runner.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like having that group of friends who I could go do an 18-mile run on Sunday, then call out my boy Matt and be like, hey, it's you know, noon, you want to go play pickleball?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Yeah, for sure, it sounds fun.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we can we have the freedom to have the schedule that we we need to get our work in and we need to do everything to get our body at the highest level.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: We also have the flexibility of like if we want to do some active recovery at the park that's throwing a ball around or something like that, it it affords that that level of fun, that level of freedom that it's just like, yeah, and then our our days in the office of um you know work is just a 10-mile run of just chatting with your friends, which I feel like that is a special opportunity as a job, quote unquote job.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like there's a story there.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned dropped a few times.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So have you been dropped a few times or vice versa doing the dropping?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: For sure, for sure.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of the sport.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think um our team probably less so than other teams of of competitiveness.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the thing about Flagstaff too.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: We got um Adidas groups, we got Hoka groups, we got other teams doing camps all the time.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll show up to work out.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have a relatively big team, but we're also um I would say probably the most friendly group in Flagstaff.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're if you're you know like the new balance group or you're anyone else who's here on a training camp, a lot of people like link up with us.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like any given workout, there's someone who's a level behind you and a level ahead of you no matter who you are, which is which is great.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I think it's great to have guys like I mean working out with Edwin Kergat, who's been seventh at Worlds and Olympics in the 5K and 10K, is like watching that level of just like aerobic dominance is like cool.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like as a fan of the sport.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's another thing too, is like I've always loved the sport, even from when I was a little kid, like I said, watching those videos, and like it feels like it's like a hot spot, you know, here in Flagstaff.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know I know Colorado's similar and uh Utah and people from all over kind of meet up together and have these these training groups, but like sometimes it's fun to like take a step back and be in a workout and be like, man, like I know when I first got here, my first workout with the team, I was working out with Matt Sinchowicz, and I was like, man, like 15-year-old me would be so proud right now.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a terrible workout, like he destroyed me, but I was so happy to be to be a fan of the sport and to be in it, and uh yeah, that's a that's a cool thing about it, is like any given day, maybe I could drop someone who's way better than me in a workout, or maybe they could drop me, or maybe we both stay together and realize that it doesn't matter who gets dropped, and yeah, we have so many workouts to to feel that way, but yeah.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think yeah, we train at a pretty high level and pretty hard workouts, and yeah, if someone drops you, there's someone else that you're staying ahead of, or that kind of vice versa.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think it's it's good that way.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's still a dream versus a job.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, sometimes it does feel like a job.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think um yeah, I think it's something that I'm always gonna be be grateful for.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I like to say like um it feels like I'm doing retirement in reverse because uh I I get the lovely opportunity to travel all over for races, and whether I'm going to Des Moines, Iowa, or Luzerne, Switzerland, like or you know, Belgium, like we travel all over, and every time it feels it feels cool to be somewhere else and to be, you know, on a on a work trip to a beautiful place, a different part of the country, and getting out there and running.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think uh I think sometimes when people retire they get really into their hobbies, which is cool because it's the only time that they've had the opportunity, because if you're working 40-50 hours a week, getting up and you're running 100 miles a week is just not like I'm sure there's some people to do it, but it's just not super viable, and not at the level where you're sleeping nine, ten hours and training at that kind of thing.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think it's really cool that it's um I get the opportunity to do my hobby like as hard as I want and travel the world.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I think I see a meme, I forget the exact meme, but it's just like it's like this person, they're thinking it's like me at 29, wondering what job I have when I grow up.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's literally me.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like oh I'm gonna get a career one day, like one day I'll I'll have you know a career, but right now I'm so grateful that I get to to do what's a hobby for a lot of people full time and have that support, you know, yeah my life, which is amazing.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it it's something that I have a lot of gratitude for, and I'm I'm sure you feel similarly, like um being in Denver, I love nature, I love being in the forest, being in the mountains, and getting out and going on a run on a single track in the trees, it's just like it's so peaceful and cathartic.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, yeah, even if I made no money running and was working full-time, I'd still try to be doing the same thing.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's it's just such a unique experience to be out in nature, and it's a unique experience to like the movement of running.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's a skill.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: People don't think about running as a skill, but to me it really is a skill.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, it definitely is, yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when you can apply like what feels like a degree of mastery to a skill, it's so satisfying.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you're really fit and you're just moving well, that has like yeah, people I think a lot of people hate running.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's so painful and it's hard.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I think a lot of people don't enjoy it, but like once you're fit and you can move really well and and you can see the sights, and you know, you can run and be very within yourself.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a hard feeling to match.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially once you fit and you that taper kicks in, not the I hate taper part, the part after.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely feels really good when the legs are just like brand new.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: You you run marathons, yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or you talked about a lot of different stuff, right?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, say that again.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: You run you run a handful of different events or handful of events, but typically it's half in full.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, half and full throughout the year.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, usually two fulls, half's what I can manage.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this year's been more of a lot of five case, a weird mix coming up in two weeks here, high rocks, and then I'm gonna go back to five case.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh trying to get faster and have some fun with strength.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then before we get to full next year again and see what we got.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of value in that.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, I I don't know if you know uh Rory Linkletter, he's in town.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, he joins with uh John Green.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: He talks the same sort of way of he's he's one of the best marathoners in the world, obviously.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Crushing right now.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's doing spiked up really fast strides all the time.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think he's one of the these kind of new school guys that are doing a ton of training, a ton of volume.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like he runs more than a lot of people I know, but also really cares about um running really fast and running a good 3K, running a good 5K.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's really smart of you to be racing marathons and racing 5Ks with the goals of of running good marathons.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd say something that came later.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I just through osmosis of the running world learned that this is what I need to do, but I'm also learning that you know, you talked about fun, like I'm having more fun this year than I've had in quite a while.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's because it's like, you know, going fast is fun.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, whoever's listening, if you love running, you know going fast is fun, but when you can do it consistently, it's extra fun.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm I'm just having fun with it, switch like okay, long distance all year round and tiring.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so that's kind of where I'm at with it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's good good value for that across the the board.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: I remember um what have been the year before last year?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I ran a 1500 and it was just tactical, like people didn't get on the pacer, and I was like frustrated because I was like, my oh, my fitness is good.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I thought I could have ran a PB in that race, and it just which which honestly is most races, you know, like it's really hard.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you can be really fit, and especially 1500, 5k, like shorter track events, it's hard to really get everything to line up to actually run a PB.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it was um this meet in Belgium that was maybe may have been a C level meet or a challenger level meet, so like not like big enough, but not like super big.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Then they had like after program, and I was like, oh like I'm kind of frustrated with this race, I'm gonna jump in the 800.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I I oh, okay.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think I might have been the only 800 I've ever ran as a pro.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't like I didn't like yeah, really have any aspirations of doing that beforehand.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, ah, I might as well.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I ran a PB in the 800, and I mean it went like 148 low or not, not anything crazy, like not anything definitely um relevant, but like I was happy personally with it, and I got third in like the after section of like the pro section, so I would have been like you know, not even like top 15 overall on the meet, but you know, like one, I was happy I got to run on PR, like that was fun, and it was fun to step down and actually run fast and like challenge your body at a different speed and a different event.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my my coach texting me the next day, he's like, Did you run an 800?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh yeah, that'd be good.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, Why did you do that?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: But like, yeah, uh and then yeah, I I enjoyed running faster, and I think it was a different stimulus, and it made what would have been a frustrating meet, like a kind of fun meet for me.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next week I ran a PB in the mile.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, um, and I think that 800 kind of helped put that faster mechanics into your legs were moving slightly slower in the mile, but like feels a little bit more comfortable.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think that's something we don't do a lot as pros is run events we're bad at to get better at events we're better at.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think you know, like, yeah, especially as pros, they they want they want to look good in races, they want to win races.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's value in in you know being humble and having a plan of like this is gonna make me be better long term, or like I said before, when you race January to September, that's a lot of races you're not gonna run a PB in.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of races you're not gonna win.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: So having the mindset of like I'm gonna run this off distance, I'm gonna run this, you know, like way longer, way shorter race, so I could PB in six weeks, you know, or I can kind of go go off that.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I like what you're doing with running road 5Ks to get uh, or I don't know if you said specifically on the road, but uh running five Ks to get ready to get a road.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, road for sure.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a plan, man.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And hell, thanks.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, man.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to hear uh uh a pro tell me you're on the right track.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fun intended, fun not intended.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um exact same thing.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's great about it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's very relatable.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Casey, how are you saying so durable?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned, hey, I'm a durable runner, and obviously you've been doing this for quite a while.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're traveling.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that season, January, September, that reminds me of baseball for some reason.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a whole baseball season.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are you staying so durable during all these months?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's a lot of factors I can get into.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: One of the ones I'm I'm probably the most grateful for is we have, you know, a whole team of people that are willing to work on us.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something that Dark Sky's done really well is we have a full-time physio um who's like traveling with us, who's at our meets.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you know, you feel good, you get on a plane for six or seven hours, you feel really bad.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: So having having a physio who travels with us, and I think he'll he'll watch us, you know, doing our strides, doing our drills, that kind of stuff.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that's big that you have someone that like looks at how you're moving and be like, hey, like this is things we need to work on.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh on top of that, I'm I'm seeing chiropractor, I'm getting acupuncture, massage, those kind of things.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're I would say like the 1%, like they're not the most necessary.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: You get incredibly good at running without you know getting massage once a week or or that kind of thing.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: But it's really nice to go out and get massage, I won't I won't lie about that.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think probably when I was younger, uh, like like I was talking about in college, is understanding the physiology and um kind of running mechanics and and being really kinesthetically aware of your body.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you have to you could be really aware, but if you have an ego and pride and don't listen to yourself, it doesn't matter.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's another thing I learned is when I was younger, I'd be like, Man, I want to run 100 miles this week, it'll look cool in Strava.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll get some kudos if I do a 20-mile run at 540 pace, um, and then get hurt, and it just like so you you have to be humble in your approach to training, and you have to be like really aware of your body, it's like, all right, like I had a goal of doing this workout, and I felt like I tweaked something yesterday.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to change the workout, and I'm gonna have to like let go of my ego of like I wanted to crush this workout, and I think that's that's something too is like a lot of times people have an injury, and this isn't all the time, there's a million circumstances, so don't take this as truth.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: But personally, a lot of times I've had an injury that's been you know four, six, eight weeks of being injured, it could have been three days if I changed something, like it could have been I um you know really kind of took care of it before it came a problem.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you can have a really high level of awareness of your body and know what you can work through and what needs to just immediately take care of, I think that's a really big turning point.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, in my own career and what I see a lot of other people is just like any long injuries is a lot of it can be attributed to people thinking they're tough and being stubborn, like, oh, I could run through this, or um, you know, like all you know, I'll get better, you know, where it's just like man, if you just feel something bad and you take three days of cross training, then uh then it can it can go away a lot quicker.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: One thing that's been helpful in my career too is um I have a little bit of a unique path into running, is I started racing mountain bikes before I got into running.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um so I've always had an affinity for cycling because that's really where my love for endurance athletics started.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so um I remember this indoor season, I did I did a race uh and it went well.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: I ran it, I ran a PB in the mile, and then I went out and did uh like 5x2k, you know, like six minutes or something in Boston in January, February, whatever month it was, on an icy road after a hard race, and I tweaked my hamstring.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I was like, uh, like that was selfish.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I shouldn't have pushed that workout.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's being greedy.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I could have just realized it hurt a little bit running on a bank track, and um but I got back home and I was like, alright, I'm just gonna take the next three, four, five, however long it takes to feel good on the bike, and because I have a good background uh cycling, um, one, like I I did it and I was like like ironically like enjoying it a lot because I I do love cycling and I can't really do it too much.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're running 100 miles a week, there's not a lot of additional training you can put in there without causing problems.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I was able to spend, I think, maybe four or five days on the bike um where I can push and maintain fitness and and honestly have a bit of diversity.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then I was able to come back.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: I missed one workout, came back, missed that Tuesday, worked out that Friday, was doing long run Sunday, and kind of feel like I didn't skip a beat because I was able to transition into the into that cross-training.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um in college I do that too, where I think I just I had a I would go to the the group ride in southern Utah on Tuesdays, and then I do my my long uh efforts on the bike also.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And like not even out of necessity, like I said, I can I can handle a high uh training volume running, but I think I just really enjoyed cycling as a sport, and I'm a big fan of sport also, so I think that's one thing too is um you we've seen people having a lot of success cross-training and uh you know a lot of success cycling specifically to running.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Personally, I don't think it doesn't transition super well, not as well as I'd like it to.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I could be really saying running is actually terrible on the bike and and vice versa, and I don't think it it transitions super well, but I think if if you can be willing, it doesn't matter really what the cross-training is, but if you can be willing to be like, all right, I have my you know peroneal tendons a little tight, I'm gonna spend three days on the bike, realize I'm not gonna lose any fitness from that, not get emotional about it, enjoy the cross-training.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I'm like sometimes I'm like grateful to get out and cross-train because it's you know it's a different experience.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the diversity also can like sometimes move the needle in fitness.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like you talk about marathon training being a little bit um like too similar to monotonous.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think sometimes when you do cross-training, that can break up uh your uh like physiology, can be because it's just a different movement pattern that provides a challenging stimulus to help kind of move that needle, whether it is neuromuscularly or metabolically.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love cycling myself as well, man, and like being on the bike.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more of a road guy.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: You said mountain dough.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: I do roads now.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm too scared to be on the mountain bike.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: I have a gravel bike and I ride dirt roads, which is the same as a road bike.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I uh now as a professional that I can't get hurt, I don't do any mountain biking.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm on the roads, and you have a nice group of guys that ride out on the roads too.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and Flagstaff there's always a group of cyclists and and that kind of stuff.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I love road biking.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's yeah.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: If I wasn't running, I would be I'd be on the road bike for sure.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, maybe post-running career later on.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: That might be, you just talked about the dream, might turn into another dream times two.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mentioned Mike Woods a little bit earlier.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: The uh former elite level runner who went into being a professional cyclist.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think uh yeah, I think that's cool.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's the same thing, it's just it's just finding the best version of yourself every other day.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine the riding's quite good in Denver, too.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's amazing, man.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, nothing like the amount of trails and road trails out here, and then you can see the flat irons and mountains while you ride in.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's definitely a fun cycling environment out here for sure.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something you incorporate in your training as well?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not as much anymore, funny enough.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I lived in Washington for a little bit before Denver, and I had a full canyon, like raced out carbon fiber bike and everything, and I was into it more, and then I moved here, sold the bike, got into running, and I haven't dabbled as much.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's something after running.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right now I'm on a running, I want to get better at running face.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, there's only so much time between work and running I can do, but I'm definitely coming back to cycling.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hell, I might even we'll see an Iron Man at some point, but I want to knock down the running first.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: But right now I'm all in running, uh trying to get faster, run some majors, run some good times, have fun.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's where I'm at now.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like that.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, uh, I think I mean I could be doing as much cycling as I want, and like I get out like two times a month.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's it's hard to really get in uh the schedule.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had a very good college coach told me once.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: I told him when he was recruiting me, I was like, Oh, yeah, I do a lot of cycling.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really good for running.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, you know what's really good for running?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Running.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you want to get better at running, running helps.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, that's a good part.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that reminds me funny enough, they asked uh Saway, who just broke the two-hour barrier.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember watching this and it felt like slow-mo to me because they were like, hey, you know, any workouts or whatever that you feel really helped you break this up two hours, and he like paused, and you know, he has an accent and whatnot, and he takes a minute to respond because English is like his second language.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's like more mileage.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: A guy who broke two hours, and everyone's expecting, oh, I did this workout and that workout, and he's just like more mileage.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which hey, you gotta, you know, be specific at times.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think especially in the marathon, too.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those guys are running what 130 miles a week plus, like, yeah, well, insane, yeah.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Casey, you talked about running Switzerland, Belgium, a few other places, man.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's it like running in all these beautiful countries versus you know, you run domestically too, but obviously, what's the difference is you see in from other countries versus here?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I feel like whenever I get out and have a European summer, European racing circuit, it it takes a lot of the pressure off because I feel like I get distracted by like, man, like I'm in a beautiful country right now, I've never been here before.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is so new and unique, and I'm trying new foods that like sometimes when I I do a race that I've done eight times in the US, it's like I'm so focused on my only goal is the time, and sometimes it's really hard to like have a great race when you're kind of solely focused.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, my best races come when I'm just grateful and distracted, you know.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think uh I raced once in Switzerland and there was like a fireworks show going on, and and also people just love track and field in Europe, like there's there's spectators in the stands and they're they're drinking beers and watching and having fun, like it's a real sporting event there, it's not like just someone's mom, like it's it's people actually come out and watch it.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's really cool too.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, I think like I said, being grateful and humble is such a good um mindset coming into races, and when you're somewhere that's just new and unique and beautiful, I think it's really um really easy to kind of channel that that mindset of being grateful and humble.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then on top of that, it's just like it's such a it's such a beautiful thing to get to see the world and travel to new places, and like I have you know so much gratitude.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if I if I go out and run a bad race, I'm like, wow, it's cool.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: I got to go to Oslo, Norway.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like when when else am I ever gonna do that?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, I run a race and you know it goes how it goes, and then I get to go and hang out with my friends after and and experience a new country.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's one of the things I have you know some of the the most gratitude for.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, we uh base out of a place in Belgium called Leuven.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like maybe 30 minutes outside of Brussels.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: Little college town, and it's just the trails are beautiful.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, a lot of people base out of there.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of like a American running hub.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't I don't know why.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, apart from it's great, but um it's so cool.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like walking down a street in Europe and you just see like people who train in you know, Boulder or people who train in Portland, and yeah, you're all just hanging out and it's sunny and you're drinking coffee and eating waffles, and it's just like yeah, it's uh I think at the end of the day, you know, 30 years from now, I'm not gonna remember if I ran 332 or 334 at a meet a meet in France.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably gonna remember like what what I did there and who I met and the friends I made and how it felt to travel and and you know what it was like to be in a different country and those experiences.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's cool running fast, and and a lot of times you can run fast times in those places, but yeah, I like to think about like if this was my last race I ever ran, like if this was a the last year running, you know, say I got an injury or couldn't continue running for some reason, like would I be happy like just being here and enjoying the experience, or like would I be upset that I was like too worked up about the time I was trying to run?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that's a good you know perspective to have on like for sure not to be desperate and just like enjoy the moment.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about earlier like being present, and I think yeah, like if you could be present and and enjoy the moment, then yeah, that's that's the best strategy for for honestly a lot of things, but for sure for running a PP.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when you say that it makes me think, man, like from a reflectionary standpoint, like 14-year-old Casey.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thinking of like, man, I'm in Oslo, Norway running.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I get to vacation after.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is impossible.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at 14, you're not thinking that.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let alone as an adult for for some, even like you know, it's just like when am I ever gonna go to Oslo, Norway?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I get to do this for fun and and and run, but I also I'm a professional.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good exercise for a lot of people in a lot of situations, is like um I yeah, I think there's a very popular quote.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: I might I might get it wrong, but it says something like, What a what a privilege it is to be tired doing something you you dreamed of doing.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, yeah, I think that's the thing, is like it's a great exercise to be like sometimes I'm like, man, like I missed a bonus by 0.03.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that was like and a certain amount of money that like frustrates me or something.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, 14-year-old me would be happy I have free sunglasses and a free watch.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: They don't care if I get a bonus or not.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like 14-year-old me pump that, like, I'm like, oh man, I got 11th place, like I miss out on prize money.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh dude, you ran 1330 something 5k on the roads, like, dude, you could you couldn't even dreamed of that 10 years ago.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you wouldn't even like fathom what it was.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think that's a great exercise for a lot of people.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is like, think of how excited, you know, the the 14-year-old version or the 10-year-old version or the 18-year-old version would be to be exactly where you are right now.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's a beautiful thing.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I feel like we're always pushing for better, especially in professional sports.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: But like, even in life, you know, it's like, okay, you make X amount of money, you want to double that next year, you know, like you, you know, go this far in your business, it's like, oh, I could always push so much further.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: But just take a step back and be grateful and think of like what the younger version of you would say if you were able to, you know, talk to them and be like, hey, you know, I did this thing.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, never even would have like thought that was possible, or I dreamed of that, but didn't know we could do it.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that that's a cool thing.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, like racing around the world and getting to compete, you know, in South America or compete in Europe or all these, you know, places, it's like that's cool to the version of me last week, but you know, I think getting a lot of like just understanding that I get to to live in Flagstaff and and wake up and run in a beautiful city is like yeah, that's that's been a dream for you know over a decade.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's cool to have a lot of gratitude in that.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Casey, what's some uh some of the favorite places you ran in?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: You even just mentioned South America, because now I'm curious.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, wait a minute, he's been all over.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do you have the most fun or like something comes to mind now?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've I'm grateful to run in in a lot of a lot of places.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I was I was fortunate enough to race Pan American Championships in Santiago, Chile, and that was one of the one of the coolest experiences for sure, because that uh Pan American Championships is like all Olympic sports.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like uh basically like Olympics, but just for you know, North, South, and Central America.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that was so cool to get to meet people that did bowling and field hockey.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like it, like, especially like I feel like people in track and field, specifically Americans in track and field, don't take like a knack axe or Pan Americans quite as seriously as they take other international competitions.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I'm in the the boat that like any championship, any competition where you can represent your country and compete on the global stage is is so valuable and so important.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: So being able to compete there, and um yeah, I feel like the stadium was like huge and packed, and like people were really into it because you know it's like I think that you know it's uh Pan Americans happens once every four years, and they were you know hyping it up for a long time in Santiago to to be something cool.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you know tons of spectators, and I remember after the race, um they take you through like a media area, and there was like kids that like wanted you to sign stuff.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh, like why would you want my signature?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why would you want any of that?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't you don't know me?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this was that's like weird.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: That was like a different experience for me.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember the kids like, oh, like can I have your hat?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can I have your shirt?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like came out of that like fan area just like naked.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I gave away all my stuff.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, but yeah, I think that was that was such a cool experience is seeing track and field um and other sports, you know, in in Santiago and get to travel to a continent that I've never been to before and uh experience that kind of stuff.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was like if I can think of a a singular like race experience, that one was was really special for me.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I think you can travel all around the world or you can travel somewhere close.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, I was listening to one of your podcasts earlier, and you said that you you love racing in New York because uh you grew up there.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something too, is like you could have a beautiful experience in your hometown or a beautiful experience somewhere that's close to you, or you could travel halfway across the world, and it's it's the same kind of you know, you can have such an experience of of gratitude, and and yeah, the the being present in the race and being present with the experience is is such a beautiful thing.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, for sure, man.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that Panama and and and for me, you're spot on.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like racing or or traveling like abroad because you get to view a city, but like when I go back home, New York, it's also like that reflection thing we talked about.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, damn, I never used to run when I was young out here, and now it's like holy crap, like you see it as a different place.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um which happens for me mostly in New York, but then everything else, yes.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go abroad, let's go to uh Chile, Santiago, uh let's go somewhere else and you know, kind of enjoy it, but uh for sure.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Casey, with everything going on in running space, everything's changing literally like I feel like every two seconds nowadays times and gels and technology and races, like what excites you the most about what's coming next for you?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think being a fan of the sport, apart like from being an athlete in sport, and like we talked about earlier, like being a fan of physiology and science and and the the progress of the sport, it's all so exciting.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I love that um at Under Armour we have an innovation team, the footwear innovation team that works closely with our group.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, one of my favorite things to do is is give feedback on on shoes and products for them.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I, like I said, growing up being a fan of the sport, um, yeah, getting a prototype shoe that's not gonna come out for five or six years maybe never comes out.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's super cool.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I remember like when we were developing our first like Super Spike, um, one of the coolest things to me was like I sat down with the team.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I think this is really important.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really important.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is really what I want.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got to see that come to fruition in the actual spike that came out.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um and then have that spike specifically have so much success.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: And all of our athletes run really well in that spike.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, it wasn't just my feedback, it's a lot of people's feedback.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was being like, man, like I mentioned this.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: And these guys who are much smarter than me and you know, way higher up in the company, like valued that opinion and um were able to make a really cool product out of that.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's one of my favorite things about being a pro.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if other companies are similar to that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: That might be like a relatively unique experience with Under Armour, is that we get to we have the innovation team in Portland.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like uh last year I raced at Portland Track Festival, then went to the to headquarters and got to sit down with those guys and just have a conversation about footwear and different stuff like that.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's definitely one of the aspects that excites me.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is yeah, just kind of being at the cutting edge of like what's happening in the in the shoe technology.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I mean that's a really cool experience I get to have.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um you talked about gels and nutrition technology.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think that's that's a really cool experience also.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know, there's a a local sports nutrition company called Blank Sports Nutrition that we've partnered with uh moving forward.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's you know, athletes in Flagstaff that um are making products for athletes.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: Started out in Flagstaff now, all over the world, and it's really cool.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I got opportunity to sit down with Mike, who's the kind of the founder of that company, and he's so excited about making sports nutrition.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, he has a background in you know, chemistry and a background, all that stuff, and like but he's just you know someone who's excited to like help athletes get get better.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I'm super fortunate that we get to have a company that's sports nutrition that you can just talk to the CEO, you know, he's just down the street and goes and plays poker, he goes and goes on bike rides and stuff.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's cool.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like some of that stuff is like you know, there's big time companies who are have all of this stuff, and some of it's just like some of these grassroots companies are doing amazing things and and providing amazing products and and giving us the opportunity to kind of test um how that works.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've been using their um bike products before workouts and races, and I've been using Nomeo for the the broccoli sprouts, and that's another company that's you know coming up recently, and it's just like I feel super, super fortunate that I'm like shoes that are you know on the cutting edge, nutrition that's on the cutting edge.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: I get to try all of it out and and see um how that works.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, as a as a someone who looks at it from a scientific perspective, and yeah, it's it's uh someone who sits down and reads studies on the running economy and auction uptake and different shoe models and just kind of almost uh into the sport to a fault.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I think it's really cool to to be in a position where I can you know experience firsthand um you know my teammates who are you know getting to try out different shoes, like what shoes Sharon is running in and how they're doing a lot of testing with her, specifically in the in the marathon, and then seeing the success that she's having in those shoes.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's super exciting too.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like all of the different aspects from the physiology and the testing and the training and and then the the footwear technology, like yeah, it's it's cool.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, being in Flagstaff too, you get to see what everyone's doing and and being on the the bleeding edge of it, I think, is is definitely a really exciting thing.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um sounds like right up your alley of enjoyment of fun.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: C I appreciate you, man.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming on.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I appreciate you coming on and sharing.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've I've had a blast talking with you and and chatting, and and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to, you know, just not hang out a bit.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, thanks for tuning in.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: This has been the People Run podcast.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll catch you on the next one.