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3 - Men Go First: The Modern Masculine Initiation · Masculine Containment

• 0:03
  Hi, I'm Alex Jarfin, and this is episode three of Masculine Containment.
• 0:07
  This episode is called Men Go First, the Modern Masculine Initiation.
• 0:12
  Let's jump in.
• 0:14
  Here's what I know about this podcast.
• 0:15
  Here's what I know about men in general.
• 0:17
  There are men listening to this podcast who are trying to do everything right.
• 0:21
  You're working hard.
• 0:22
  You're providing.
• 0:23
  You're helping around the house.
• 0:24
  You're doing more chores.
• 0:25
  You're being present with the kids.
• 0:27
  You're trying not to say the wrong thing.
• 0:28
  You're trying to say the right thing.
• 0:31
  And in a lot of cases, you might be walking on eggshells, trying to do better.
• 0:34
  You're thinking before you speak.
• 0:36
  You're managing your tone.
• 0:37
  You're trying not to escalate.
• 0:38
  You're working on your relationship.
• 0:41
  And somehow...
• 0:43
  It still feels like you're losing.
• 0:45
  This is really personal for me because I know this feeling.
• 0:48
  It was present in my relationship.
• 0:51
  There were times where I could feel my wife slipping away.
• 0:53
  Like she wasn't as excited to see me as she used to be.
• 0:57
  She wasn't as playful as she was at one point.
• 1:00
  There was less intimacy.
• 1:01
  And sometimes when there was intimacy, it felt different.
• 1:04
  It felt sometimes like it was forced or maybe it was an obligation or it felt mechanical or less playful, less alive.
• 1:10
  We rushed through it.
• 1:11
  She wasn't as into it.
• 1:13
  And sometimes I felt like she was physically there, but still guarded.
• 1:17
  And I started to realize she was guarded against me.
• 1:20
  And it was confusing because from my perspective, I really thought I was doing everything right.
• 1:26
  That's where we really need to start this episode.
• 1:28
  See, I've already talked about the pattern present in heterosexual relationships in other episodes in the first two episodes.
• 1:34
  I don't want to repeat all of it, but I just want to review.
• 1:37
  There's this pattern of trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then quote unquote repair.
• 1:45
  And there's this strong belief in the market, strong belief in a lot of the books I read and a lot of the experts that I talked to when I was going through this with my wife that
• 1:54
  If you have conflict and you repair, everything resets, and as a couple, you should be okay.
• 2:01
  Well, my wife and I were doing that, and we were repairing, and I actually got really good at repair, but I didn't realize that her body wasn't resetting like mine.
• 2:13
  See, escalation is not just about the single argument that you have.
• 2:17
  It's about repetition.
• 2:19
  If the conflict in your marriage, in your relationship is intense, like it was for us,
• 2:24
  Yeah, people talk to a lot of men these days and oftentimes they'll tell me where, well, I'm with, you know, a woman who's spicy or a woman who's aggressive or a woman who's loud.
• 2:33
  And my wife's Italian.
• 2:34
  She's loud.
• 2:35
  She's one of those people.
• 2:36
  And
• 2:39
  There was intensity in our conflict and it was never abusive.
• 2:43
  It was never me like chewing out, yelling at her or really violently, violently threatening her.
• 2:48
  It was normal conflict, according to the therapist that we worked with and the coaches that we worked with.
• 2:53
  But here's what I realized in really looking at our relationship and looking at a lot of relationships of men that I've talked to is that if conflict carries intensity
• 3:05
  your wife, and if it repeats over time, over and over again, her nervous system starts to actually adapt to the conflict.
• 3:11
  Not to adapt to accept more conflict.
• 3:14
  It's not conscious.
• 3:15
  It's physiological.
• 3:17
  She actually has a biological adaptation to the conflict.
• 3:20
  And I saw this.
• 3:21
  I felt this, but I didn't understand it.
• 3:23
  See, what I felt and what I understood was that she was bracing before escalation ever happened.
• 3:29
  And over time, she started bracing even in the absence of escalation.
• 3:33
  I remember reading this in a book.
• 3:35
  It was called The Bristle Effect, where you walk up to your wife or you go close to her and her body actually tightens and bristles.
• 3:41
  And I remember that happening.
• 3:43
  That wasn't present in our relationship in the beginning.
• 3:45
  That wasn't present for a long time.
• 3:48
  But it showed up and it was there over and over again.
• 3:51
  And it was so frustrating for me.
• 3:54
  You know, it was challenging.
• 3:56
  It wasn't her logical mind bracing.
• 3:57
  It was her body.
• 3:59
  She would tense when I walked towards her or sometimes she would stiffen during intimacy or she would feel guarded even when things were calm.
• 4:07
  And here's what I know now.
• 4:08
  Okay.
• 4:09
  On Katie's part, on my wife's part, that wasn't a conscious decision.
• 4:12
  She wasn't trying to do that.
• 4:13
  It was conditioning.
• 4:15
  Conditioning that happens over time.
• 4:18
  And that conditioning to her body of having that pattern of, you know, trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then repair, I thought we were fine.
• 4:29
  But...
• 4:30
  She wasn't.
• 4:31
  And bracing is like a nervous system that's not open.
• 4:35
  It's a nervous system that's shutting down.
• 4:37
  It's a nervous system that's actually functioning in the right way to protect itself.
• 4:41
  And I had no idea this was going on.
• 4:43
  Now, before I go on and talk about this pattern and talk about the initiation that you and I need as men, I want to just address something that has happened over and over again online.
• 4:53
  So I've actually started publishing in October of last year, and it's now March 1st.
• 4:59
  And in that time, I've had repeated therapists and professionals reach out to me and tell me that what I'm sharing is wrong and tell me that it's not supported by research.
• 5:08
  And what I've done with all of them is point out that there's a natural power imbalance in heterosexual relationships because...
• 5:16
  They'll tell me that men and women respond to conflict equally.
• 5:18
  And I'll tell them that it's just not true that, you know, men actually represent a real physical threat to women.
• 5:25
  And in almost all cases, in fact, 100% of the cases of the men that I've talked to so far, the woman doesn't represent a real actual physical threat to the to the man.
• 5:35
  And.
• 5:36
  When some therapists have understood this natural power imbalance, they said things like, I'm going to see how do I bring this into my practice.
• 5:43
  And nobody's ever pointed out this.
• 5:45
  They're pointed this out before.
• 5:46
  And I'm surprised it's not part of the research.
• 5:48
  I'm surprised it's not out there.
• 5:50
  But others actually tell me that I'm wrong.
• 5:52
  And they tell me that the research doesn't support this.
• 5:55
  And I just want everyone to know something.
• 5:56
  I'm totally OK with that.
• 5:59
  I'm not trying to win a debate.
• 6:00
  I'm not here to argue statistics.
• 6:03
  What I am here is to address my real lived experience and the lived experience of the hundreds of men that I've talked to now.
• 6:12
  There's over 100 men in the current container in the Brotherhood learning masculine containment.
• 6:17
  And outside of that, I've had so many conversations with men and I've seen so many comments and direct messages from both men and women telling me that there's this pattern keeps you showing up.
• 6:29
  Men feel like they're doing everything right and they feel their wives pulling away.
• 6:33
  And women feel like they're having trouble getting closer to their husbands.
• 6:37
  They're having trouble being around their husbands.
• 6:39
  One of the most heartbreaking things that I hear from women is, Alex, I love him.
• 6:43
  He's my person.
• 6:44
  I've always loved him.
• 6:46
  But when I get near him, my body says no.
• 6:49
  And so if this resonates with you, then I want to share this information with you.
• 6:54
  If it doesn't, then that's okay.
• 6:55
  If your marriage is doing great, if your relationship is doing great, then that's fantastic.
• 7:01
  But if you're experiencing some of what I was experiencing, some of the confusion and frustration around feeling like you really are doing the right thing and knowing that you would never cause physical violence and knowing that you're in this pattern of conflict and repair, but you're doing it right according to the books and to the therapists and to the coaches, then I want you to understand that
• 7:21
  This dynamic is really difficult to ignore.
• 7:24
  See, in heterosexual relationships, the man is almost always physically stronger.
• 7:29
  In every relationship that I've talked to, they will admit that they are.
• 7:33
  They also admit that they're more physically capable.
• 7:35
  Here's the big one.
• 7:36
  They're more capable of violence.
• 7:38
  Now, that's not to say that women aren't capable of violence and sometimes women are violent towards men.
• 7:43
  I've had men reach out and tell me that that's happened to them.
• 7:46
  But even when I talk to those men and I say like, hey, if you really want to do stop the violence, if you had grabbed her and you had fought back, what would have happened?
• 7:55
  And then they admit, yeah, they're still stronger than that person who's standing across from them.
• 8:01
  And here's what happens.
• 8:03
  If we carry more physical presence and more energetic charges men, even if we're good guys, even if we're kind, even if we would never hurt her, the impact on her nervous system matters more than the intent.
• 8:17
  If your impact is greater, here's what I believe.
• 8:20
  As men, we need to understand that our responsibility is greater.
• 8:24
  I'm not trying to win an argument with therapists or win against statistics or the research.
• 8:28
  What I'm trying to share with men is that we need to go first.
• 8:33
  We need to go first not because we're wrong.
• 8:35
  We need to go first because we can.
• 8:37
  We need to go first because we should.
• 8:39
  We need to go first because going first is leadership.
• 8:42
  Here's what I know about women, not only from the research that I've done, but from the hundreds of conversations that I've had now, is that women...
• 8:51
  when their body experiences repeated conflict, they feel fear.
• 8:56
  And it's not just in repeated conflict with us.
• 8:58
  Women walk around in fear in a way that we as men just can't understand.
• 9:04
  Women usually have a lifetime of abuse or challenges or being objectified or having men overstep with them, having men violate boundaries with them.
• 9:12
  So women are already in a place where their bodies are conditioned to brace, to protect, to look for danger.
• 9:21
  And here's what happens if you look at somatic traditions or like contract traditions.
• 9:26
  I've studied both.
• 9:28
  There's this concept called armoring and armoring is when the body braces over time, the bracing starts to stick.
• 9:35
  The bracing starts to become permanent and bracing looks like the jaw tightens, shoulders tightens, the diaphragm tightens.
• 9:43
  The pelvic floor tightens.
• 9:44
  Even the genitals can get tightened and sensitive.
• 9:48
  And sometimes sex becomes painful.
• 9:51
  Sometimes intimacy becomes something that isn't that great.
• 9:54
  Sometimes women want to rush through it.
• 9:56
  Because if there's armoring present for a woman, it's their body protecting itself.
• 10:02
  And if escalation and conflict becomes a pattern in your relationship, her body may start protecting itself around you.
• 10:11
  I want you to know something.
• 10:12
  It's not because she hates you.
• 10:13
  It's not because logically she doesn't love you.
• 10:16
  It's because her nervous system is protecting her.
• 10:17
  I know that was what was happening with Katie.
• 10:20
  Over time, intimacy became strained.
• 10:23
  She had more sensitivities.
• 10:25
  She wanted to get things over with.
• 10:26
  It was a lot less frequent.
• 10:28
  And I now know that's because a body that's protecting itself is not an open body.
• 10:35
  And this explains what a lot of us as men deal with when we're in an intimate relationship where intimacy starts to become challenged.
• 10:43
  It's because women...
• 10:46
  in order to feel intimate, have to open.
• 10:49
  Women are actually, they must open.
• 10:52
  Like women are penetrated.
• 10:53
  We as men are the penetrator.
• 10:55
  And so for their body to be open and relaxed and welcoming and excited about you, you're not.
• 11:02
  They have to feel emotionally and physically safe.
• 11:07
  It's crucially important because otherwise what happens is the body closes before the mind does.
• 11:13
  See, the nervous system starts closing down the mind, even if she logically loves you.
• 11:18
  Even if she logically and thinking wise wants to be intimate with you, often it doesn't work out the way we want to or the way she wants to because her body's already in a fight, flight, fawn or freeze.
• 11:31
  Her body's been reacting to you because of the escalation, because you're the bigger presence, because you actually represent physical danger.
• 11:39
  And here's what happens.
• 11:41
  By the way, this isn't an accusation.
• 11:43
  I'm not trying to accuse men of doing anything or accuse women of doing anything.
• 11:47
  It's actually just physiology.
• 11:48
  This is biology.
• 11:50
  And what happens when this starts, like me, most men experience this as a rejection.
• 11:56
  I know I did.
• 11:58
  I felt like I didn't want to initiate because I was afraid of being rejected.
• 12:03
  I felt like when I walked up to my wife and she braced, there was something wrong with me.
• 12:07
  I felt like when she wasn't as soft or playful or as excited to see me that I was doing something wrong.
• 12:14
  And I had tried all the things.
• 12:17
  But here's what I didn't know.
• 12:19
  The distance I was feeling wasn't a punishment.
• 12:21
  It was actually an invitation.
• 12:24
  It was an invitation to the most important initiation that I've ever experienced as a man.
• 12:29
  It was an invitation to the initiation that made me who I am today and made me better at everything that I do and made me a much happier, much more excited, much more connected, much more present person.
• 12:42
  You know, in today's world, men don't really have a formal initiation.
• 12:47
  Modern men could be, if we accept it, we could be initiated inside our relationships.
• 12:54
  When my wife said, I don't feel seen, I don't feel heard, I don't feel safe.
• 12:58
  And if something doesn't change, I can't do this anymore.
• 13:01
  At first it felt like an attack.
• 13:04
  I was stunned.
• 13:05
  I was shocked.
• 13:06
  I thought things were going well.
• 13:07
  Sure, we had conflict, but we were repairing really well.
• 13:10
  I got amazing at repair.
• 13:12
  I was really good at it.
• 13:14
  And I knew how to do the repair.
• 13:15
  I had read all the books.
• 13:16
  I read all the processes.
• 13:19
  I had memorized them.
• 13:20
  Then I had gotten really good at it.
• 13:22
  But what I didn't understand is that because we had continual conflict, the repairs were working for me, but they were no longer working for her at the nervous system level.
• 13:33
  I wasn't scared of her.
• 13:34
  I wasn't chronically afraid of her, but she was of me because she always knew there was another conflict around the corner and we were going to go through that same process again.
• 13:44
  And even when I didn't escalate past her energy and just matched her energy because I'm the stronger nervous system in the room, I know people are going to get frustrated with that.
• 13:53
  And here's what I mean by that men escalate and then come down quickly and women.
• 13:59
  in relationships have told me that when they escalate, they feel dysregulated for days.
• 14:04
  Men, we can come back to center.
• 14:06
  We can come back and repair.
• 14:08
  But women, especially when there's chronic escalation, chronic conflict, their bodies just start to expect it.
• 14:15
  And here's what I now know and what I've now experienced is the most important initiation that I've ever had.
• 14:22
  See, so many men say they want to be the calmest guy in the room.
• 14:25
  I used to talk about this all the time.
• 14:26
  I was a business coach and I would tell people the most present leader, the most aware person, the calmest guy in the room is always the one that wins.
• 14:33
  But how do you actually get there?
• 14:35
  You know, I've talked about this literally for over a decade.
• 14:38
  What I didn't realize is you don't get there in theory.
• 14:41
  You don't get there by reading.
• 14:42
  You don't get there in friction.
• 14:45
  Your relationship is actually the dojo, the training ground, the initiation that you need.
• 14:52
  Every trigger in your relationship can be practiced to make you calmer, more regulated, more contained as a man.
• 14:57
  Every escalation can be training.
• 14:59
  Every emotional surge can be a sparring round where you dominate yourself, where you create dominion over yourself, where you stay present instead of defend, where you metabolize conflict instead of exploding.
• 15:12
  You build nervous system strength and regulation.
• 15:15
  This is like martial arts level discipline.
• 15:17
  I'm a martial artist.
• 15:18
  I've practiced martial arts for tons of times, tons of years of my life.
• 15:22
  But nothing, nothing built as much discipline as understanding this.
• 15:28
  Because the benefits of becoming contained, of understanding masculine containment, of no longer reacting to every trigger.
• 15:35
  In fact, not just no longer reacting to every trigger, but starting to see every trigger as an opportunity.
• 15:41
  An opportunity to breathe.
• 15:43
  an opportunity to regulate, an opportunity not to suppress emotions, but to metabolize the emotions that are happening, to be able to transmute the emotions that are happening by feeling them, but not reacting to them, by understanding what's happening and responding, not exploding.
• 16:01
  And the benefits, like I said earlier, are everywhere.
• 16:04
  It's made me a better business person, a better father.
• 16:06
  I'm a better leader.
• 16:07
  My sexual presence is way more intense.
• 16:10
  My spiritual depth has grown like crazy because I'm regulated and I'm contained and I'm in my body.
• 16:17
  I'm embodied.
• 16:20
  And I believe men need to go first, not because women are fragile.
• 16:25
  Men must go first because for us to have sovereignty, for us to be sovereign individuals, it requires responsibility.
• 16:33
  And because we have a greater impact, we have greater responsibility.
• 16:36
  And if we can regulate first when there's a trigger in our relationship, we can shift the entire dynamic.
• 16:44
  Now, this is not submission.
• 16:46
  This is actually power under control.
• 16:48
  Containment's not shrinking.
• 16:50
  It's stabilizing.
• 16:51
  And when we stabilize, here's where the magic happens.
• 16:55
  When there's a trigger, let me take you through my relationship.
• 16:59
  In the past, when there was a trigger, it could be anything.
• 17:02
  I could walk into the room and Katie could be emotional or maybe a little short or maybe she was crying and I would react.
• 17:10
  I'd react in not the greatest ways.
• 17:12
  I'd try and fix it or build process around it or I'd withdraw or I'd react emotionally and escalate the conflict, all of which made her feel invalidated and unseen.
• 17:23
  Now, when there's a trigger, it's gone from that energy to if I walk in the room and Katie's upset or triggered or maybe a little shorter than she normally is, I just stop and say, hey, Katie, what's going on?
• 17:34
  I've got you.
• 17:35
  Like, tell me.
• 17:36
  Share with me what's happening.
• 17:38
  I use masculine containment, responsive containment.
• 17:42
  I ask her questions.
• 17:43
  I lead with curiosity.
• 17:45
  I find out what's going on with her.
• 17:47
  And sometimes while I'm asking questions, she'll escalate.
• 17:50
  And then as I continue asking questions and she feels seen, she feels heard, she feels validated, she feels safe, that escalation comes down.
• 18:00
  And I actually, instead of becoming part of the problem, instead of having a storm present and making it even worse, I'm going to be a little bit more.
• 18:07
  I walk into the middle of the chaos and I calm it.
• 18:11
  And that creates this feeling of power for me, this feeling of self-pride, this feeling of excitement for me because I,
• 18:23
  When I do that, she softens.
• 18:25
  And when she softens, openness can become present again.
• 18:29
  She opens to me.
• 18:30
  She leans into me.
• 18:32
  She's excited to see me.
• 18:33
  She's more playful with me.
• 18:35
  She's more present with me.
• 18:36
  It's like the greatest feeling in the world.
• 18:39
  I love my wife more than anything.
• 18:41
  Like literally she's my everything.
• 18:43
  And if you're a guy who feels the same way about your wife, this is the code.
• 18:47
  This is the key.
• 18:48
  It will change your life.
• 18:50
  And by the way, this perspective is not universal.
• 18:52
  Like not everybody's going to agree with me.
• 18:54
  And it's not an accusation of anybody doing anything wrong.
• 18:58
  And I'm certainly not saying that all the research is wrong or all the data or books out there are wrong.
• 19:03
  I just think.
• 19:05
  that throughout history, we've taken a male perspective to solving every solution or solving every problem.
• 19:11
  And when it comes to medical and clinical environments, the focus is always on men.
• 19:18
  As a guy, if you haven't seen your wife get gaslit or treated weirdly in the medical world, then you're lucky because it happens all the time to women.
• 19:29
  The research that's done in the medical sphere or in the clinical world is mostly done on men.
• 19:35
  and women are overlooked and sometimes even ignored.
• 19:38
  Like even in clinical trials for drugs, women were often excluded from clinical trials because they had this hormone cycle that would throw off the results.
• 19:47
  So a lot of women just got a smaller prescription of what men got.
• 19:51
  And so it makes sense to me that in the clinical research, it makes sense to me that in the data, it makes sense to me that in the science, that they haven't seen this.
• 20:02
  Because in order to understand this perspective, you actually have to say men need to go first.
• 20:08
  You actually have to say as men, we need to take more responsibility.
• 20:11
  You actually have to say as men, we have an opportunity to change things.
• 20:16
  But it requires the admission that we need to stop what we're doing, even though the research says it's okay, even though the data says it's okay.
• 20:24
  And so I want to make it clear, this isn't an accusation.
• 20:27
  This is an invitation.
• 20:29
  It's an invitation to the greatest initiation you could ever have.
• 20:34
  Now, if your relationship is thriving and everything's great and it's beautiful, that's okay.
• 20:39
  Then maybe this information isn't going to resonate.
• 20:43
  But if you can feel the distance growing and you know she doesn't look at you like she used to and you know things are getting more and more challenging and you'd like to reverse course and get back to the place where it's fun and exciting and she's happy to see you and she wants you around and you don't just logically know it but you actually feel it in your body.
• 21:01
  You feel it in your chest.
• 21:02
  You feel it in your heart.
• 21:04
  This is your opportunity.
• 21:06
  If you want to become the calmest, most present, most capable man in the room, then this might be the initiation you've always been looking for.
• 21:15
  Here's my sincere opinion when it comes to relationships.
• 21:20
  As men, we need to go first.
• 21:23
  We need to go first and end the conflict.
• 21:26
  We need to go first and help with processing.
• 21:28
  We need to go first and get into our bodies and understand what's going on.
• 21:32
  We need to go first so that we can calm the chaos and not create more.
• 21:37
  And if this resonates with you, then you and I have a lot in common.
• 21:41
  Because here's what I can tell you has happened in my relationship.
• 21:44
  Since I started practicing masculine containment, when I walk in the room, responsive containment because my wife's having some type of a reaction and I can help her through it.
• 21:53
  Since I started practicing active containment, where I actually set up a time to sit down with my wife and understand what's going on for her every single day.
• 22:01
  I've done that since December 26, 2023.
• 22:04
  When I started practicing self-containment, no longer road raging, no longer getting upset at the things around me.
• 22:10
  And just as importantly, when I started practicing sexual containment and I stopped dejectifying women and I stopped exploding my sexuality out all over the place by using pornography and draining my energy and draining my capacity, my relationship has become better than it's ever been.
• 22:28
  Sometimes I giggle about it because I've always been in love with my wife, but I'm more crazy about her today than I ever have been.
• 22:34
  And intimacy is a totally different product than I ever thought I would have.
• 22:37
  It's better than anything I ever imagined.
• 22:40
  And it's not just that.
• 22:42
  It's having this secure attachment.
• 22:45
  My wife, she knows everything about me.
• 22:48
  She understands who I am.
• 22:49
  There's no secrets.
• 22:50
  There's nothing hidden.
• 22:53
  And it gives me this confidence, this capacity, this presence when I walk out in the world that changes everything.
• 22:59
  So if this resonates for you and you're a man, my suggestion is you go first.
• 23:05
  You go first in calming the chaos.
• 23:08
  You go first in stopping that five-step pattern of trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and repair.
• 23:15
  And you become the man who actually creates the containment in your relationship and creates masculine containment for your partner.
• 23:22
  It will change your entire life.
• 23:23
  It will make you better at everything you do.
• 23:26
  And it will give you capacity for things that you never thought possible.
• 23:30
  When it comes to capacity, today I run an organization called the Brotherhood of Society for Men.
• 23:35
  It's an international organization where men learn masculine containment, not just to improve their relationships, which they do, but to improve their lives, their careers, their businesses, what they do to increase the capacity that they have as men to understand themselves better.
• 23:50
  So if you're interested in this work, you do not have to do it alone.
• 23:53
  I'd love to walk this path with you.
• 23:55
  I'd be honored to walk beside you learning masculine containment.
• 23:59
  You can go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com and sign up for the wait list for our next container.
• 24:05
  And I'd love to see you there.
• 24:09
  If you're in that place where you feel her slipping away, I just want you to know one thing.
• 24:14
  There's hope.
• 24:16
  There's hope.
• 24:17
  You can change it.
• 24:19
  You can move things in the right direction.
• 24:21
  You can learn these strategies and the tactics and the processes behind them.
• 24:25
  And you can bring her back to you and have the relationship you've always dreamt of.
• 24:30
  And I'm saying this from personal experience because I've been down the path where things were going in the right direction.
• 24:36
  I've been down the path where things we want in the wrong direction.
• 24:40
  And when I turn around into the right direction, everything in my life changed and I'm better than I ever have been.
• 24:45
  So go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com, sign up for our wait list.
• 24:48
  I look forward to seeing you on one of our interview calls.
• 24:52
  And as a man, I just want to leave you with the last thought.
• 24:56
  Go first because it's the initiation you've always needed.