Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / I Can't Believe What the New Medical Examiner Just Said About Ellen Greenberg's Murder

Transcript

I Can't Believe What the New Medical Examiner Just Said About Ellen Greenberg's Murder · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:23
  This video contains mature themes and discussions intended
• 0:26
  only for adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
• 0:32
  Hello and welcome back to a true crime live stream.
• 0:35
  My name is Gavin, This is my channel.
• 0:37
  I'm so glad that you're here. Thank you for joining me.
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  Have to say though, I'm a little down today.
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  I, I mean, I think we all expected this, but let's, let's
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  set the stage, shall we? Today we are talking about the
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  case of Ellen Ray Greenberg. Ellen was 27 years old when she
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  was brutally stabbed to death over 20 times in the front of
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  her abdomen, A slash to the top of her head, and several stab
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  wounds to the back of her head. And while the medical examiner
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  rightly said, you know what, this is a homicide under
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  pressure from the Philadelphia police and the DA's office,
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  according to his deposition, this is Doctor Marlon Osborne.
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  Bring up his picture right here. According to his deposition,
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  under pressure from the Philadelphia Police Department
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  and the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, in private
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  and in public, in a very public pressure campaign, Doctor
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  Osborne changed the manner of Ellen Greenberg's death from
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  homicide to that she had done it to herself.
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  We're remaining YouTube friendly here, right?
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  I can say the word, it's not a scary word, but apparently
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  YouTube doesn't like it all that much.
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  Then after 14 years of fighting, Doctor Osborne finally said on
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  the eve of what I thought was promising to be a civil trial
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  that was going to go into the favor of Ellen's parents, Josh
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  and Sandy. Here's Here's pictures of Josh
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  and Sandy with their daughter Ellen.
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  Josh and Sandy settled with the city of Philadelphia.
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  The city of Philadelphia agreed to pay them a monetary sum.
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  Remember, Josh and Sandy had spent upwards of $800,000
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  fighting the city of Philadelphia on this.
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  So they got a payment of an unspecified sum and they got the
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  word of the city of Philadelphia that an independent review of
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  the case by the now sitting medical examiner's office
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  because nobody in the office now was there back in 2011 when
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  Ellen was brutally murdered. Well, they said they would do
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  that now. Of course they didn't.
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  They took forever to do that and it wasn't until last month when
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  judge Linda Carpenter really took him to task for it.
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  But on Friday, Friday afternoon, that report was sent over to
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  Josh and Sandy's team. Now, I was under an embargo on
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  this. I wanted to share this with you
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  guys, but rightly so. There was an embargo by Josh and
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  Sandy's team, so I didn't share it with you.
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  But People magazine got a hold of the report and published a
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  very good report on the fact that the City of Philadelphia,
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  the Medical Examiner's office has come to the conclusion it is
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  the opinion of the Chief Medical Examiner of Philadelphia,
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  Lindsay Simon, MD. It is her opinion that Ellen
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  Greenberg took her own life. She spends 31 pages, 31 pages.
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  This is the report right here, 31 pages going through
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  absolutely everything before she delivers her opinion.
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  We are going to, I don't know that we're going to go through,
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  we're not going to go through all 31 pages in depth, but we
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  are going to go through this document.
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  Now, if you were here for the first time, let me just set up
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  the ground rules, OK, I can't really see your comment.
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  Well, I can see all the comments that come in but it really helps
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  me if you put GF in your comment that does not mean girlfriend,
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  that means Gavin Fish. Just put GF in your comment and
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  that will highlight it for me so I can see what it is that y'all
• 5:43
  are saying because I want I want your interaction here in the
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  live stream. For example, Judy Studios says
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  this new Emmy has 0 credibility anymore, right?
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  I Volsgal says can the judge overrule any of this?
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  Now? I have been asked this question
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  multiple times this very day by many people, many, I don't know,
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  half a dozen people today. It is my opinion that she does
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  not. It isn't.
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  It is my opinion that she does not have that power.
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  But there is a hearing still on the docket still scheduled for
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  tomorrow at 1:00 PM Eastern Time.
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  I will be attending that meeting, that hearing.
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  And we will see what Judge Linda Carpenter has to say about this.
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  But from my understanding of the law, understanding you guys need
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  to need to recognize not a lawyer here, right?
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  This is I'm just some schlubby guy, part time reporter, full
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  time YouTube sitting in western Pennsylvania who loves to read
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  legal documents. But my understanding of the, I
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  guess the legal doctrine of mandamus is a judge does have
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  the power to force a public official to do their job, but I
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  do not think a judge has the power to tell them what their
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  opinion must be. I hope I'm wrong.
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  I hope that I am wrong. See if there's anything else you
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  guys are being so kind about Josh and Sandy.
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  Yeah. Mooney saying big hugs over to
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  Josh and Sandy right now. Yeah.
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  It's just It's just embarrassing for the city of Philadelphia.
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  Steph says. I just don't understand how
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  Philly can understand how Ellen would do this to herself or
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  could do this to herself. They had the apartment
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  professionally cleaned by a crime scene company and his
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  Sam's family took the electronics.
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  Yeah, there there are tons, tons of problems, man.
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  So many problems, right? Oliver's mommy asking if there
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  is a trial tomorrow. It is not a trial.
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  It is a hearing going on tomorrow, Melissa asking the
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  same question. Can Judge Carpenter see this for
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  what it is and throw it out tomorrow?
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  I do believe that she has the power to say the city of
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  Philadelphia did not comply with its settlement and we're sending
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  it back to trial. I think that she could do that.
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  I think the likelihood is almost 0 though.
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  Nancy, does the new Emmy have a connection to Shapiro?
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  Not that I know of. Let's talk disabilities.
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  Gavin, you said less than 4 minutes into this video that we
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  all expected this. Why do you why do you think that
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  I, I expected this. I expected this.
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  And this is something that I've talked with Josh and Sandy about
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  now. I wanted to be wrong.
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  I love it when I'm wrong. I love it when I learn new
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  things, when I can be surprised in the strangest ways.
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  To me, I love that. But the city of Philadelphia for
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  14 years, and it's not just Philadelphia.
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  It is the attorney general's office.
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  The state of Pennsylvania has been fighting to put this
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  murder, to sweep it under the rug for 14 years.
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  We're coming up on 15 January 26th will be 15 years since the
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  murder of Ellen Greenberg. So when and I'm Monday morning
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  quarterbacking. I know, I know, but I do like
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  tomorrow I will be on surviving the survivor with with Joel.
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  He and I were at the courthouse when this whole settlement
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  happened. He and I sat in the hearing with
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  the judge beforehand. We watched Josh and Sandy and
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  the city's lawyers and Joe and Will go back and forth and talk
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  and do all these different things.
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  We watched it happen. I we saw the settlement
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  happening in real time. Josh and I both told each other
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  that day they're never going to call it a homicide.
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  I expected this just because I mean, zebra can't change its
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  stripes, right? Leopard can't change its spots.
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  What is that saying? A tiger can't change its
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  stripes? Philadelphia cannot change its
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  dill hulery. It just can't.
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  It just doesn't know how to do it.
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  So that's that's why, Chico, this is just drawing more
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  attention to this case. This isn't over yet.
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  He's going to be the nominee in 2028, then all will come out.
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  Yeah, I do think, I think you're talking about Josh Shapiro.
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  I try to stay apolitical on this, but in an apolitical
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  spirit, I do believe that there's a good chance that Josh
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  Shapiro will be the nominee of his party to be elected as
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  president of the United States. He's certainly in the top three,
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  let's say, and he's a good politician, as much as I hate to
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  say that, and I don't have it in me to hate anyone.
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  I think I've, I've outgrown that.
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  But I, I don't get along with or want to get along with Josh
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  Shapiro. So it gives me no happiness in
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  saying that. But I think you're right.
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  I think he will be the nominee for his party and like when his
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  name was being bounced around and it looked like a sure thing
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  to be on the the ticket as a vice president and the vice
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  presidential candidate in the last election.
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  I I got busy. I wrote the entire thing out.
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  And if you guys, if you guys ever want to see what I wrote,
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  let me let me bring it up here real quick.
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  Let's go push the right buttons here.
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  If you go to my blog, there is a post about the time that his
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  name was being bandied around titled Anti Semite.
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  Shouldn't stop Josh Shapiro from getting the Veep nod, but a
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  murder cover up should. And I laid out the entire thing
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  top to bottom. So, yeah, feel free to go and
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  read that. And if he is, if he runs for
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  president, you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be on
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  the warpath on this. This man, because of the four
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  years that his office spent covering up the murder of Ellen
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  Greenberg, should not be president of the United States.
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  He shouldn't be even be considered for president of the
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  United States. Thank you for that comment.
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  Kathy says wish wish the feds could get involved somehow.
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  Yeah. Nicole Luongo asked what
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  recourse to the Greenbergs have. Now.
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  That is a very good question. OK.
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  Now I have not talked. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm in
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  constant contact with with the Greenbergs and I spoke with I
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  spoke with Sandy on Saturday after I had read this and I
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  asked her her plan. She said, don't know yet.
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  So I, I'm sure that their lawyers, Josh and will have
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  plans. But keep in mind that this
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  settlement was in a lawsuit where Josh and Sandy alleged
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  that members of the Philadelphia Police Department, a member of
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  the district attorney's office, and members of the medical
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  examiner's office conspired to cover up the murder of Ellen
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  Greenberg. That was the lawsuit.
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  The settlement was that they would drop that lawsuit and they
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  would withdraw the lawsuit that was in front of the state
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  Supreme Court, which I just wish.
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  I just wish that wasn't part of the settlement.
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  Monday morning quarterback here. I mean, in the moment you got to
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  make the decision, the best decisions you can.
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  So no fault to Joe and Will, to Josh and Sandy.
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  Do I have a picture? I do.
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  These are the Greenberg's attorneys.
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  They are terrific. On the left is Joe Pedraza, on
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  the right is Will Trask. They're terrific.
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  But I just really wish that I just didn't like that settlement
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  at all. But, you know, going into a
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  trial, not knowing what is going to happen, will a jury see it
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  your way? I get it.
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  I get making those decisions. It's scary.
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  And and trading the unknown for a sure thing is I guess.
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  Yeah, it's just attractive, right?
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  It's it's what is the word that I'm looking for anyway?
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  I I understand why somebody would do that.
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  Now, are there any other lawsuits that Josh and Sandy
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  could file? I think so.
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  Sure. It wouldn't it be against Doctor
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  Osborne, It wouldn't be against Doctor Gullino.
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  But I think that they have, I do think that they have other
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  things that they can do, but it will start a long process
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  because I believe this case was filed.
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  Let's bring you guys back over here.
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  What, 3 years ago it was Greenberg V Osborne, not that
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  one. It's Greenberg V Gulino at June
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  15th of 2022. By the way, you guys know on my
• 16:25
  site, I make available to all my patrons.
• 16:29
  Thank you so much guys. You take care of me on Patreon.
• 16:33
  All of the documents on my website, I did add to the
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  document that we're going over today underneath this, this part
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  of the site, underneath Greenberg V Gullino, because
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  that is the the case that it's under.
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  So you can just do a little clicky poo on that and log in as
• 16:54
  a patron and you'll be able to see that.
• 16:56
  OK. But for those of you who are not
• 16:58
  patrons, don't worry, we're going to get into the document
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  tonight. I just, I want to, I want, I
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  want to get through some of your questions here.
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  Child of God, Gavin, Gavin, Gavin.
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  How did the new Emmy conclude such.
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  This is ludicrous to my compression.
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  I I think that was an auto correct issue there.
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  I'm not sure we're going to get into it.
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  So you can see. Yeah.
• 17:30
  Gavin, can you share a Zoom link for the hearing tomorrow?
• 17:34
  Oh, I mean, it is a public, It's a public hearing.
• 17:41
  It's at 1:00. I don't.
• 17:49
  The answer is I can and I think I will.
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  But here's the thing, I don't want it to turn into anything
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  like we saw in the Idaho 4 case where people are threatening the
• 18:05
  judge or doing, you know, doing things that are untoward.
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  The thing that Josh and Sandy have have done this entire time
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  is they have kept this above board.
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  They have done this completely appropriately the entire way
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  through. So can I share the link?
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  Here's what I I just don't want I just don't want there to be a
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  ruckus and I don't want it all come back on me.
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  So how about this? Let's do it this way.
• 18:47
  If you would like to join the public hearing, it is a public
• 18:51
  meeting, head over to my website.
• 18:55
  I anything that comes in tonight, I will respond tonight.
• 19:00
  Head over to my website. Click on this little icon right
• 19:03
  here. The I don't know if you can.
• 19:05
  Yeah, you guys can see my my cursor.
• 19:07
  Right click on that little envelope up at the top that will
• 19:11
  take you to a form and just just give me your e-mail address and
• 19:16
  tell me that you want to, I don't know, just, you know,
• 19:20
  choose general contact. Give me your e-mail address so I
• 19:22
  can reply and tell me that you would like to join the hearing
• 19:29
  and I will send it to you. So I, I, I just don't want to
• 19:35
  put it out in the public domain because I don't, I want there to
• 19:38
  be a little bit of a barrier to get it because I just don't want
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  anything untoward to happen in that hearing.
• 19:49
  I want it to be a professional, legal, above board classy
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  hearing the way Josh and Sandy have kept it classy the entire
• 19:58
  time. So reach out to me, I will send
• 20:02
  it to you. One man's trash.
• 20:07
  Thank you for taking us through this document, which I promise
• 20:10
  we will do. I wouldn't even look at it out
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  of frustration if not for this community.
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  Melissa asked. How is it independent when the
• 20:19
  city is being sued? Uses their own me and that was
• 20:24
  that was their that was the settlement.
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  Patty Olsen I don't understand how this happened.
• 20:31
  Besides corruption, you and I share the same the same opinion.
• 20:39
  Terry says Why are they trying to sweep it under the rug?
• 20:41
  OK, here's what I think #1 the my #1 suspect.
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  And I think what would what should be considered the lead
• 20:54
  suspect in this? It is connected to a politically
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  or is part of a politically connected family who is
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  connected to the governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,
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  former attorney general of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
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  He he is a powerful, powerful person and let's not forget that
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  members of the this my suspects and I mean, we know who my
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  suspect is, right? My suspects family members also
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  have a lot of political sway. It's not just the Shapiro
• 21:36
  connection, it is other political sway.
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  I mean, it was one of the reasons that Ellen probably
• 21:43
  loved, loved Sam Goldberg is because he came from a prominent
• 21:47
  family, a connected family. And so I think that's one angle
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  of it #2 is I think that if they were to say, yeah, this is
• 21:59
  homicide, I think that that puts under scrutiny maybe 3000 other
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  cases. Because I think Doctor Osborne
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  is a horrible, is a horrible pathologist.
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  I really do. Or at least he was then.
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  He was having, I think he was having personal issues that were
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  impeding him from doing a good job as the medical examiner.
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  I think he was overworked. I think he was just doing all
• 22:29
  type of crap. And the fact that the police
• 22:33
  pressured him to change his manner of death.
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  What is the what are the police care?
• 22:37
  What the what the medical examiner says they shouldn't
• 22:41
  they shouldn't care. But yeah, be brave asking the
• 22:46
  same question. That's why I think that's that
• 22:49
  is what I think I see you says Joel and Gavin match made in
• 22:53
  podcast heaven. I love I love hanging out with
• 22:55
  Joel. I love going on his channel.
• 22:56
  OK, I think I'm pretty much caught up on your comments.
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  We do have you know, next course of action is going to be tough.
• 23:05
  We'll see what what the Greenbergs do.
• 23:08
  I do think that they have some avenues here.
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  Maybe the judge says the state did not conduct a fair and
• 23:15
  independent autopsy as they agreed to as part of the
• 23:17
  settlement. Possibly.
• 23:18
  Yeah. Shawna.
• 23:19
  Possibly Shawna. No, my mom's name is Shawna.
• 23:23
  I was just checking your, checking your profile pic there
• 23:25
  to see if that was my little mumsy.
• 23:31
  Are they potentially? Kell asks, pushing so hard on
• 23:34
  this because they're worried about the safety of convictions
• 23:36
  under the former Emmy. You said it so much better than
• 23:39
  I did. I, I said it clumsily.
• 23:41
  And look at you go, OK, let me just, Oh my goodness, So many
• 23:50
  questions before we can get over get into the document, which is
• 23:53
  fine. I mean as long as you guys are
• 23:55
  happy to be here, I'm happy to be here.
• 23:57
  After you talked about Josh Shapiro on this channel, I
• 23:59
  shared the info with friends and others.
• 24:01
  I'm glad settlement required fair and independent autopsy.
• 24:05
  There is the legal reason to go back to court.
• 24:08
  Settlement not followed Possibly.
• 24:11
  Or the judge could require the autopsy to be conducted by a
• 24:15
  third party. Could be could I stream the the
• 24:21
  hearing? The answer to that,
• 24:22
  unfortunately, and not because I don't want to, is no, because
• 24:28
  while hearings and court proceedings in the Commonwealth
• 24:33
  of Pennsylvania are public, are public meetings, they are not
• 24:38
  allowed, No cameras are allowed in any courtroom.
• 24:42
  Nothing that can broadcast can broadcast out of a courtroom.
• 24:45
  And that goes for the Zoom hearings as well.
• 24:49
  So no, I would be, I would be prosecuted if I thought I could
• 24:56
  get away with it, though illegal, I might try, but no, I
• 25:01
  would be prosecuted in the Commonwealth for sure.
• 25:07
  Yeah, I and I know you guys. I know most of you, the vast
• 25:11
  majority, 99 and six, six nines would.
• 25:15
  I said 6 nines. I meant the 499 point, another 4
• 25:19
  nines. We always called that 6 nines in
• 25:20
  in engineering. But anyway, 6 nines of you would
• 25:25
  not do anything. But there's that, there's that
• 25:29
  one person. So yeah, I can do, I can do a
• 25:35
  recap. Well, maybe I can do an early
• 25:39
  recap right after the hearing. How about that?
• 25:45
  I I will schedule that tonight. Also, let's call that 3:30
• 25:50
  Eastern. And so I will be doing 3:30
• 25:53
  Eastern. Then I will be on with Joel at
• 25:56
  7:00 Eastern. And then around 8:30 Eastern,
• 25:59
  we're going to get into the the David case.
• 26:06
  What is it the the Celeste Rivas Hernandez case.
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  OK, so tomorrow's going to be a busy day for us, y'all, which is
• 26:14
  good. If you want to request the link,
• 26:20
  the easiest thing to do, well, just reach out to me.
• 26:24
  I'll give you the link. OK.
• 26:30
  And Teresa. Yeah.
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  Good decision on the Zoom link. I I don't want it to get out of
• 26:34
  hand. Kathy Williamson.
• 26:37
  Gavin. Oh, my.
• 26:38
  Your hair is getting so long. Please remind me of what has to
• 26:41
  happen before you cut it. I love how I love how you phrase
• 26:48
  that. That is so great.
• 26:50
  No, as many of you know, my dad has been battling cancer for the
• 26:55
  last almost seven years, maybe it's been 7 years now.
• 26:59
  And when he was in chemo, me and my two sisters and my two
• 27:05
  brothers, we all shaved our heads in solidarity with our
• 27:08
  dad. We kept our heads shorn while he
• 27:11
  was in chemotherapy. He is now in what is called
• 27:18
  immunotherapy, a second round of immunotherapy and so he hasn't
• 27:22
  lost his hair this this time around.
• 27:24
  But anyway, I I just thought that it would be fun to go full
• 27:30
  circle and grow my hair out for the purpose of donating it to
• 27:36
  some organization that might make wigs or whatever for people
• 27:43
  with cancer or alopecia or something that burns, what
• 27:49
  whatever it is that they do for the people who need it.
• 27:52
  I have though, thinning and receding.
• 27:56
  I have been blessed with lots of hair.
• 27:58
  So that's why I decided to do that.
• 28:00
  Kathy. OK, let's get to Yeah, you guys.
• 28:10
  Great, great comments. The hearing tomorrow is at 1:00
• 28:17
  PM Dill Holery. Yes, this is my you can buy this
• 28:25
  mug. It's on my website.
• 28:28
  It's a dill pickle in a hole. It's my dill hole cup.
• 28:31
  You're welcome to support me that way and it would be much
• 28:36
  appreciated. OK, let us head on over to this
• 28:42
  button right here. Bring this up and you guys have
• 28:46
  tons of questions. We're going to get to as many as
• 28:48
  we can. We have plenty of time.
• 28:50
  Let's just get into this this file.
• 28:55
  I'm not going to get into the weeds of everything because many
• 28:59
  of us know the facts of the case.
• 29:00
  There are just some things that I think that we should read.
• 29:03
  OK, so Doctor Simon, she's the he or she Lindsay can be.
• 29:09
  I'm. I'm.
• 29:10
  I'm not sure. I'm not sure if Doctor Simon is
• 29:13
  a man or woman. I think.
• 29:17
  Well, now I want to know. Let's see.
• 29:20
  Doctor Lindsay Simon, pathologist in the city of
• 29:30
  Philadelphia. Oh, no photo.
• 29:35
  Come on, Doctor Simon. I guess it doesn't matter.
• 29:40
  Doctor Lindsay Simon, forensic pathologist.
• 29:45
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 29:46
  Doesn't matter. I'm getting sidetracked.
• 29:49
  It shouldn't matter. Let's so Doctor Simon starts
• 29:53
  out. I think it's her.
• 29:57
  Her document saying the Medical Examiner's office was asked to
• 30:00
  conduct an independent and unbiased review of all available
• 30:03
  materials relating to the death of Ellen Greenberg be conducted
• 30:06
  by the undersigned. The ultimate question to be
• 30:09
  answered by this review was whether the manner of death
• 30:12
  should be changed from the current ruling of suicide to
• 30:15
  could not be determined or homicide.
• 30:18
  This review was conducted independently by the undersigned
• 30:21
  with all opinions being those of the undersigned without
• 30:24
  influence by any of the involved parties.
• 30:29
  OK, I mean, I don't know that I believe that.
• 30:33
  Well, I know that I don't believe that.
• 30:35
  Let's put it that way. I I don't know Doctor Simon,
• 30:42
  probably a lovely person, but no outside pressure from any of the
• 30:48
  involved parties. I am calling shenanigans on
• 30:51
  that. The materials that Doctor Simon
• 30:54
  reviewed were electronic and paper records retained in the
• 30:57
  medical examiner's case file, photographs retained in the
• 31:01
  medical examiner's case file. Electronic and paper records
• 31:05
  generated by the Philadelphia Police Department.
• 31:08
  Transcripts for the depositions of Doctors Lindsay Emery, Sam
• 31:12
  Gallino, and Marlon Osborne. Sam Gallino was the chief
• 31:16
  Medical examiner at the time. Marlon Osborne was an assistant
• 31:19
  medical examiner at the time of Ellen, his death.
• 31:23
  And then of course, Dr. Emery was a pathologist that worked
• 31:27
  there afterwards that was asked to take a look at some of the
• 31:29
  tissue samples retained in Ellen's case.
• 31:32
  She was a neuropathologist. And then there were consultative
• 31:38
  reports from Doctor Wayne Ross Dr. Jonathan Arden Dr. Cyril
• 31:42
  Wecht Detective Scott Ellman, Henry Lee PhD Tom Brennan Tom
• 31:48
  Brennan is a retired Pennsylvania State homicide
• 31:52
  detective with over 800 investigations under his belt.
• 31:57
  Michael Woodhouse PhD and then investigative materials provided
• 32:01
  by doctor Wayne Ross. I don't this blew me away.
• 32:07
  Death in apartment 6O3 What happened to Ellen Greenberg
• 32:10
  documentary miniseries on Hulu streaming service.
• 32:12
  She she looked at that. I mean, no shade on that.
• 32:18
  I'm super proud of Laura and Nancy and the entire team at
• 32:23
  that docu series. But that does not belong in an
• 32:29
  official, like, investigative report.
• 32:34
  Why is that part of the materials reviewed?
• 32:39
  Oh, my goodness. So dumb.
• 32:42
  OK, yeah. On Wednesday the 26th of
• 32:48
  January, 2011, approximately 7:30 PM, the death of Ellen
• 32:52
  Greenberg was reported to the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's
• 32:55
  Office, subsequently referred to as the MEO.
• 32:58
  The initially reported circumstances were that the
• 33:01
  decedent's fiance forced entry into their shared apartment to
• 33:04
  find Ellen with a knife in her chest.
• 33:07
  She was pronounced dead at the scene by the medics at 6:40 PM
• 33:11
  on the same day. Mr. Olshefsky, Steve Olshefsky
• 33:16
  was the investigator from the MEO, responded to the scene at
• 33:19
  8:27 PM. At the scene, the investigator
• 33:22
  spoke to the decedent's fiance and police at that.
• 33:25
  At this time, the fiance reported that he had left the
• 33:28
  apartment around 4:45 to use the apartment building's gym.
• 33:31
  When he returned to the apartment at approximately 5:15
• 33:34
  or 5:30, the fiance found the apartment door secured from the
• 33:38
  inside. I'm a Quibbler.
• 33:41
  I'm a Quibbler here, but this is important and something that I
• 33:49
  think Doctor Simon has missed, she stated as fact.
• 33:57
  When he returned to the apartment at approximately 5:15
• 34:00
  to 5:30 PM, the fiance found the apartment door secured from the
• 34:03
  inside. It should read.
• 34:07
  The fiance said he found the apartment door secured from the
• 34:11
  inside because he is the only person to have said that.
• 34:18
  Now, there were a couple of neighbors that were interviewed
• 34:22
  and I think she gets into it here.
• 34:25
  I know she does. One of them said that they saw
• 34:30
  Sam CD seated on the floor saying that he was locked out.
• 34:37
  But I guess I'm a quibbler, OK? He attempted to reach Ellen via
• 34:45
  texts, phone calls, and knocking on the door for approximately 1
• 34:48
  hour before he forced entry into the apartment.
• 34:50
  Before he said he forced entry into the apartment.
• 34:54
  Nobody saw him do that. There is conflicting information
• 35:00
  in the MEO records as to whether the fiance was accompanied by
• 35:03
  staff from the apartment complex when he forced entry into the
• 35:06
  apartment. In the report of death
• 35:08
  investigation written by the responding MEO investigator, Mr.
• 35:12
  Olszewski, under the section labeled Circumstances, the
• 35:15
  following description was provided.
• 35:17
  He, the fiance, proceeded to contact the decedent via text
• 35:21
  message, telephone calls and emails for approximately an hour
• 35:23
  before he forced entry into the apartment.
• 35:26
  There is no indication in the circumstances Report who
• 35:29
  provided this information about entry into the apartment.
• 35:33
  In a separate report written by the same MEO investigator, Mr.
• 35:36
  Olszewski titled Investigation Report under the section labeled
• 35:40
  Background, the following description was provided.
• 35:42
  HE Goldberg proceeded to try to contact the decedent via text
• 35:46
  messages, telephone calls, and emails for approximately an hour
• 35:50
  before he forced entry into the apartment.
• 35:52
  An apartment security man was reportedly present during the
• 35:56
  entry, which he was not. We know that he was not.
• 36:02
  We see it on video. He has made a sworn statement.
• 36:07
  This is Mr. Hanlon. He has made a sworn statement
• 36:10
  saying no, I was not present. Nobody was present with Sam
• 36:14
  Goldberg when he reportedly broke down the door.
• 36:17
  And this is the I'm sorry to be like such a Quibbler on this,
• 36:21
  but these investigators need to go to reporter school.
• 36:26
  You can't write as fact something that somebody tells
• 36:29
  you it is not fact until it is proven as fact.
• 36:32
  Put on your skeptical hat. Remember, my skeptical hat is a
• 36:36
  delightful little bowler. Put it on and and report that he
• 36:45
  said an apartment security man or somebody said the apartment
• 36:51
  security man was present during the entry.
• 36:54
  You cannot write as fact something that you don't know is
• 36:58
  fact. I mean, this is this is, this is
• 37:03
  entry level stuff, man, Entry level stuff.
• 37:09
  OK. The MEO investigator noted that
• 37:11
  all information contained within the background section of this
• 37:14
  report was provided by the police at the scene and the
• 37:17
  fiance. It is not documented in the case
• 37:20
  file who specifically reported that the entry to the apartment
• 37:22
  was witnessed by apartment staff.
• 37:24
  Mr. Olszewski, I hope you're doing better now.
• 37:29
  While there are no date time stamps to verify which report
• 37:32
  was entered first, the investigation report containing
• 37:35
  the second excerpt includes details of interviews conducted
• 37:39
  after the autopsy was underway. The fiance reported to the MEO
• 37:44
  investigator that he found Ellen unresponsive on the kitchen
• 37:48
  floor. He called 911, as was instructed
• 37:52
  to give CPR when he began to render aid.
• 37:55
  No he didn't. He did not begin, ever begin to
• 38:02
  render aid. I don't even think he was in the
• 38:05
  same room when he made that 911 call.
• 38:08
  I just don't even think he was in the same room.
• 38:12
  He did not begin to render aid. When he began to render aid, it
• 38:17
  should say the fiance said. When the fiance said he began to
• 38:22
  render aid, the fiance said he noticed the knife in Ellen's
• 38:26
  chest. At this point he stopped
• 38:29
  rendering aid, Oh my goodness. And awaited first responders.
• 38:32
  That is not unbiased writing. That is biased writing.
• 38:41
  Like we can all recognize biased writing.
• 38:45
  You should. This is not an unbiased report.
• 38:48
  Crying out loud. OK.
• 38:50
  The scene of the death was a 6th floor apartment.
• 38:53
  The apartment building was described as a gated community
• 38:56
  with a 24 hour concierge service.
• 39:02
  I mean, I'll quibble. Not a gated community.
• 39:04
  Yes, 24 hour concierge. A severe snowstorm had impacted
• 39:08
  the region near the time of death, which resulted in several
• 39:10
  inches of snow accumulation. The MEO investigator documented
• 39:16
  the scene photographically and with a narrative report, the
• 39:19
  findings of which appear consistent with one another.
• 39:21
  Upon review by the undersigned. Ellen was found supine on the
• 39:25
  kitchen floor. She's on her back, sort of, but
• 39:32
  yeah. Supine on the kitchen floor with
• 39:33
  her head and shoulders resting against the lower kitchen
• 39:36
  cabinets. At the scene, multiple stab
• 39:38
  wounds were visible on Ellen's chest and upper torso.
• 39:42
  A knife was lodged in her left chest.
• 39:45
  That is correct. And if I have a pen, just so you
• 39:52
  know what it looks like it it was like kind of coming out.
• 39:57
  Hold on, kind of coming out like this, man, that's bad, OK.
• 40:07
  Kind of coming out like this. And it was so it was it was so
• 40:16
  visible. OK.
• 40:19
  Oh, my goodness gracious me. She fell on a knife.
• 40:23
  The dumbest thing I've ever heard in my Life.
• 40:25
  OK. Get you back over here.
• 40:32
  The knife lodged in the body appeared consistent with an
• 40:35
  overturned knife set found on the kitchen counter.
• 40:38
  Again, overturned, as in perhaps a struggle.
• 40:45
  Blood evidence appeared to be confined to the immediate
• 40:48
  vicinity of Ellen's body. Photographs of the scene show a
• 40:51
  patterned imprint in the blood on the floor near Ellen's right
• 40:56
  hand. A patterned.
• 41:01
  OK, I'm not going to show you guys this photo, but I want to
• 41:03
  look at that real quick. Let me see.
• 41:06
  I I want to. I'm checking Doctor Simon's work
• 41:08
  here. I I cannot show this photo.
• 41:11
  OK, It's, one, Josh and Sandy don't want those photos getting
• 41:18
  out. And two, I mean, it's just not
• 41:23
  cool to show this kind of stuff by her right hand, a patterned
• 41:28
  imprint. And now there's an image.
• 41:37
  Yes, there is a patterned imprint next to her right hand
• 41:45
  near her glasses. OK, the MEO investigator noted
• 41:54
  blood staining on the sole of Ellen's boot.
• 41:57
  It is the opinion of the undersigned that the patterned
• 41:59
  imprint in the blood appears consistent with the tread of
• 42:01
  Ellen's boot. I'm I'm just going to look at
• 42:10
  this real quick. Yeah, I'll give her that.
• 42:22
  I will give her that. OK, there were no signs of a
• 42:27
  struggle in the apartment, except, of course, the
• 42:30
  overturned knife block. No note was found at the scene.
• 42:37
  No defensive injuries were noted.
• 42:41
  I quibble with that as well because there were bruises on
• 42:44
  her wrists and hands and there were little scratches near her
• 42:48
  nail beds. The sink in the kitchen was dry
• 42:51
  and had no visible blood or tissue. 2 Knives in the kitchen
• 42:54
  sink were similarly free of blood or tissue.
• 42:57
  The only sign of forced entry was at the apartment door, where
• 43:00
  door latch was incompletely detached from the door.
• 43:04
  Undisturbed snow is present on the apartment's patio.
• 43:07
  No alternative means of entering the apartment were identified.
• 43:16
  Bottles for alprazolam, clonazepam and zolpidem
• 43:24
  prescribed for the decedent were recovered from a bedside table.
• 43:27
  The decedent cell phone was found in the apartment bathroom
• 43:30
  next to her packed. Her guys next to her packed.
• 43:34
  Let me describe this photo for you.
• 43:36
  I can't show it to you. I think they show part of this
• 43:39
  in the documentary. You mean There we go.
• 43:45
  OK, OK, So the photo is the scene of an apartment bathroom
• 43:51
  with the toilet on the left and the vanity with two sinks on the
• 43:55
  right. It appears that there are some
• 43:58
  things on the sink that go there frequently.
• 44:02
  Things like a powered toothbrush, things like soap, a
• 44:07
  candle and perhaps like a thing of lotion.
• 44:12
  But also present on this on this countertop is like a like a
• 44:23
  travel size toothpaste and toothbrush and a baggie.
• 44:29
  What appears to be like a glasses case, Ellen's scarf, and
• 44:33
  then two of Ellen's cosmetics and toiletry bags already packed
• 44:40
  and unzipped are all in the bathroom.
• 44:44
  She had not returned from a trip recently.
• 44:49
  In my opinion, she was packing to go.
• 44:52
  OK, I wish I could show you this stuff.
• 44:55
  I just, I, I have agreed not to. And yes, indeed, the cell phone
• 45:04
  is on top of one of her toiletry kits, is the kind that sits tall
• 45:09
  and unzips in the middle top and opens up this way.
• 45:12
  And the other is like a book opening type of thing that is
• 45:17
  closed. And on top of it is Ellen's
• 45:19
  phone in the purple case. It's an iPhone 4 in the purple
• 45:23
  case. OK.
• 45:27
  The last outgoing text message was sent at 3:47 PM the same
• 45:32
  day. There were multiple missed calls
• 45:34
  and incoming texts from Mr. Goldberg between 5:30 and 5:54.
• 45:38
  There were also missed calls from the apartment buildings
• 45:40
  front desk between six O 7 and 610.
• 45:44
  Now I'm I do want to read these two.
• 45:46
  The first police interview. Let's see.
• 45:49
  I hope I think she has the second one too.
• 45:52
  Police transported the fiance to the Northwest Detectives
• 45:55
  Division for an interview at 11:25 PM.
• 45:58
  During this interview, the fiance said that Ellen was
• 46:01
  already home when he arrived home around 1:30 that day.
• 46:05
  While at home, Ellen was upset about her job and indicated that
• 46:08
  she wanted to quit. The fiance noted that Ellen had
• 46:12
  been stressed over work for a couple of weeks leading up to
• 46:14
  that day. After offering some
• 46:16
  encouragement to his fiance, he said he left the apartment
• 46:19
  around 4:45 to use the apartment buildings gym.
• 46:23
  When he left, Ellen was reportedly in the apartment
• 46:26
  grading papers. The fiance then stated he
• 46:30
  returned to the apartment around 5:20 PM and found that the latch
• 46:33
  to the apartment door was engaged.
• 46:36
  And thank you for saying he stated that.
• 46:38
  He reported calling and texting Ellen without a response.
• 46:41
  The fiance said he then went back down to the apartment
• 46:44
  building lobby to talk to the building's concierge concierge
• 46:47
  and see if a maintenance worker was available to help with the
• 46:50
  door. He said he then proceeded back
• 46:52
  to his apartment and tried calling Ellen again and again
• 46:55
  with no response. Thank you.
• 46:58
  Like this. That paragraph at least was
• 47:01
  written in an unbiased manager manner.
• 47:04
  The fiance stated he forced entry to the apartment at 6:29
• 47:08
  PM. Of note, during this police
• 47:10
  interview, he did not claim to be accompanied by apartment
• 47:12
  building staff when he forced entry, nor was he specifically
• 47:16
  asked by police if his entry into the apartment was witnessed
• 47:18
  or not. When he saw Ellen on the kitchen
• 47:21
  floor, the fiance said he called 911.
• 47:24
  The 911 operator reportedly asked the fiance if he would be
• 47:28
  willing to provide CPR to Ellen if the operator guided him
• 47:32
  through it. The fiance said he agreed.
• 47:36
  I mean, professional quibbler here, but it's, I guess I have
• 47:39
  to, right? Those were his words.
• 47:43
  But when he got close to Ellen to start rendering aid, he saw a
• 47:46
  knife in her body. The fiance reportedly informed
• 47:53
  911 operator of the knife and the 911 operator advised the
• 47:58
  fiance to wait for emergency responders to render aid.
• 48:01
  It is very interesting to me. By the way, I have pointed this
• 48:05
  out a million times. Well, I exaggerate about 3
• 48:11
  billion times a day, so I haven't stated it a million
• 48:14
  times, but I've stated it 100 times for sure that he didn't
• 48:19
  say she had a knife in her chest, which I think is the
• 48:24
  common way that all of us would report seeing somebody with a
• 48:30
  knife in their chest. No, what he said was she has a
• 48:37
  knife in her heart. And to me, that indicates way
• 48:43
  more emotion. It indicates way more, I guess.
• 48:56
  Well, just it represents to me, it represents way more anger.
• 49:00
  If I wanted to say somebody, I'm going to stick a knife in your
• 49:04
  heart. That's how those are the words
• 49:06
  that I would say it. But if I found somebody with a
• 49:09
  knife in their chest, I would go, there's a knife in their
• 49:11
  chest. It's just the weirdest thing how
• 49:15
  he said it. OK, I'm not going to do the
• 49:19
  whole timeline of events. You guys can get it yourself.
• 49:25
  All my patrons have access to it on my website.
• 49:30
  I'm going to skip. I want to.
• 49:32
  Oh, summary of the autopsy report.
• 49:35
  Let's go over this one. Excuse me.
• 49:37
  Because the autopsy had so many problems.
• 49:42
  It had so many problems, guys. The two major ones I've already
• 49:46
  mentioned them are the fact that there were not 11 bruises on
• 49:53
  Ellen's body contained within 3 constellations.
• 49:58
  There were 59 bruises, individual bruises that I, as a
• 50:01
  layperson was able to count, including a string of bruising
• 50:07
  on her neck. And #2 is when they opened the
• 50:12
  neck and deflected all of those neck muscles, all those straps.
• 50:16
  There was a giant haemorrhage which Doctor Osborne saw because
• 50:22
  he opened her up and they took a photo, but it was nowhere to be
• 50:27
  found on the autopsy report. So OK.
• 50:31
  Summary of the autopsy report. The remains of Ellen Greenberg
• 50:34
  were examined at the MEO on the 27th by Doctor Osborne, with the
• 50:38
  examination starting at approximately 9:00 AM.
• 50:41
  Ellen weighed 136 lbs, measured 5 foot 7 at the time of the
• 50:44
  autopsy. The final autopsy report was
• 50:47
  printed on April 4th and signed by Doctor Osborne.
• 50:52
  I had never made that connection.
• 50:55
  April 4th is a special day for us.
• 50:58
  That is our, that is one of our son's birthdays.
• 51:02
  I've never made that connection, but yeah, OK.
• 51:05
  The signature on the final autopsy report appears to be the
• 51:08
  undersigned. Appears to the undersigned to
• 51:10
  match the signatures on both the original death certificate.
• 51:13
  OK, fine. Doctor Osborne's autopsy report
• 51:16
  was notable for 20 stab and incised wounds of Ellen's chest,
• 51:21
  abdomen, posterior scalp and neck, which were arbitrarily
• 51:24
  designated wounds A through T. All the wounds were described as
• 51:28
  having associated soft tissue hemorrhage.
• 51:31
  Eight of these stab wounds were on the chest and posterior neck,
• 51:35
  penetrating only .2 or .3 centimeters, less than an eighth
• 51:39
  of an inch deep, with only superficial soft tissue injured.
• 51:42
  Five of these stab wounds were on the chest and posterior neck,
• 51:46
  penetrating 1.4 to 2.1 centimeters. 2.2 centimeters is
• 51:51
  an inch all right, so between half an inch and 7/8 of an inch
• 51:55
  deep with no vital structures injured.
• 51:59
  One stab wound on the posterior neck penetrated 3 centimeters,
• 52:03
  approximately 1 and 3 sixteenths inch deep with no vital
• 52:07
  structures injured. Hang on, that went into a brain
• 52:20
  stem, but OK. The depth of penetration was not
• 52:25
  documented for the incised wound of the posterior right scalp,
• 52:29
  but I mean, the images show it was to the bone.
• 52:35
  The five remaining stab wounds documented in the autopsy
• 52:37
  reporter summarized by the undersigned as follows.
• 52:41
  Stab wound E Perforations of the aortic arch and the left lung.
• 52:46
  Depth of penetration 10 centimeters.
• 52:49
  Associated hemopericardium, left hemothorax and right hemothorax.
• 52:56
  Serrated knife recovered from the wound.
• 52:59
  Stab wound H Perforation of the chest wall.
• 53:02
  Penetration of the liver. Depth of penetration 4
• 53:06
  centimeters. Unspecified volume of associated
• 53:09
  intra abdominal hemorrhage. Stab wound eye Perforation of
• 53:13
  the abdominal wall. Penetration of the mesentery,
• 53:17
  Depth of penetration 6 centimeters.
• 53:19
  Associated intra mesenteric hemorrhage.
• 53:24
  Unspecified volume of associated intra abdominal hemorrhage.
• 53:28
  Stab wound MO. This is the one that perforates
• 53:32
  the dura. OK.
• 53:33
  All right. I apologize to Doctor Simon.
• 53:36
  Perforations of dura at base skull and intracranial blood
• 53:40
  vessels overlying the cerebellum.
• 53:44
  Depth of penetration 8 centimeters.
• 53:46
  Almost the same depth. Think of it as the knife.
• 53:50
  It was that about that much shorter, just a little less than
• 53:56
  an inch shorter. Associated subarachnoid
• 54:03
  hemorrhage of the cerebellum. Stab wound.
• 54:06
  T Perforations of the posterior neck muscles and dura of the
• 54:09
  spine between the 2nd and 3rd cervical vertebra.
• 54:13
  Depth of penetration 7 centimeters.
• 54:16
  Associated focal epidural hemorrhage of the spinal canal.
• 54:21
  In the autopsy report, the cervical spinal cord was
• 54:23
  described as bulging near the defect of the cervical spine
• 54:27
  dura. Per the report, this segment of
• 54:29
  spinal cord was submitted to Doctor Lucy Rourke, which it was
• 54:32
  not come on a neuropathologist practicing at the Children's
• 54:36
  Hospital of Philadelphia for examination.
• 54:39
  Seemingly contradictory statements about the outcome of
• 54:42
  that examination were included in the autopsy report.
• 54:45
  On the findings and opinions page of the report, Doctor
• 54:48
  Osborne wrote the spinal cord injury was evaluated grossly by
• 54:51
  neuropathology. It was concluded that the injury
• 54:54
  to the spinal cord would not have incapacitated the decedent.
• 54:57
  Well, it's misspelled. Therefore, the decedent would be
• 55:01
  able to inflict the subsequent stab wounds to her body.
• 55:04
  However, on page 6 of the report of examination and the
• 55:09
  description Stab wound T of neck, Doctor Osborne wrote note
• 55:13
  neuropathologist Dr. Lucy Rourke again misspelled examine the
• 55:18
  spinal cord and concluded there's no defect of the spinal
• 55:21
  cord, so they conflict. Other pertinent findings in the
• 55:25
  autopsy report were multiple contusions on Ellen's right
• 55:29
  upper arm, right forearm, abdominal wall, right thigh and
• 55:32
  near her right knee. Doctor Osborne summarize these
• 55:36
  contusions as being in various stages of resolution.
• 55:40
  On the findings page, Doctor Osborne affirmatively stated
• 55:44
  there were no petechiae in the conjunctive A, nor were there
• 55:47
  injuries to the lip. So petechiae refers to broken
• 55:52
  blood vessels and in the conjunctive A, which is the
• 55:55
  whites of your eyes. And indeed, in the photographs,
• 56:02
  there's no petechiae. There's no none of that
• 56:05
  hemorrhaging in her eyes. It's been a while since I've
• 56:09
  looked at that. Let me just.
• 56:18
  Yeah. The whites of her eyes are
• 56:20
  crystal clear. Nor were there injuries to the
• 56:29
  lips, oral cavity, external genitalia, perineum, anus or
• 56:33
  vaginal canal. He also affirmatively reported
• 56:37
  that there were no injuries to Ellen's anterior neck muscles,
• 56:42
  hyoid bone or thyroid cartilage of the larynx.
• 56:49
  But there was. But there was.
• 56:53
  And I've, I've shown it here on this, on this channel.
• 56:58
  If you go, I'm going to bring you over to my website real
• 57:03
  quick, just a second for this to load.
• 57:11
  OK? If you go to Ellen's case page
• 57:18
  and scroll on down, there is one that says do not watch this.
• 57:24
  OK? This is 1 where Josh and Sandy
• 57:29
  gave me permission to show very close up, very cropped images of
• 57:37
  her neck. That includes the hemorrhage on
• 57:41
  the inside and the bruising on the outside.
• 57:44
  So if you want to see it for yourself, that's where you go.
• 57:52
  I'm not. Just don't take my word for it.
• 57:54
  I've got it documented right there.
• 58:00
  OK Details from the review of the autopsy report and
• 58:06
  photographs in general. In general, the undersigned
• 58:09
  agrees with the findings documented in the autopsy report
• 58:13
  when compared to the photographs taken out autopsy.
• 58:15
  However, there are omissions and errors regarding the documented
• 58:19
  injuries in the autopsy report that require attention.
• 58:23
  OK Stab and incised wounds External findings Dr. Osborne
• 58:27
  documented and described a total of 20 stab wounds stabbing
• 58:31
  incised wounds in his final autopsy report, which appears to
• 58:34
  correspond with notes taken by Doctor Osborne during the
• 58:37
  autopsy. Autopsy photographs demonstrate
• 58:40
  three additional perforations in the skin which were unaccounted
• 58:44
  for in Doctor Osborne's report and notes.
• 58:47
  Specifically, there is one small vertically oriented perforation
• 58:51
  of the skin of the posterior right neck, approximately half
• 58:54
  centimeter in length compared to the photograph scale, One small
• 58:58
  obliquely oriented perforation in the skin on the right side of
• 59:03
  the neck approximately .3 centimeters in length length
• 59:06
  compared to the photograph scale, and one small
• 59:09
  horizontally oriented perforation of the skin of the
• 59:12
  upper chest approximately .3 centimeters in length compared
• 59:16
  to the photograph scale. All these perforations have
• 59:19
  photographically documented soft tissue hemorrhage and are less
• 59:23
  than three sixteenths of an inch in length when compared with
• 59:25
  scales in the photographs. It is the opinion of the
• 59:28
  undersigned that these omitted injuries did not result in
• 59:31
  significant internal injury. OK internal findings.
• 59:36
  The described internal injuries associated with stab wound E do
• 59:43
  not completely correspond with the photographic documentation.
• 59:47
  There were no reported perforations of the pericardium
• 59:50
  or its contents, yet there was 120 milliliters of blood in it.
• 59:54
  Based on review of the photographs, it is the opinion
• 59:57
  of the undersigned. The stab wound E in fact
• 59:59
  extended through the pericardium and into the ascending aorta.
• 1:00:04
  Whether there was also a perforation of the aortic arch
• 1:00:07
  as stated in the report cannot be adequately assessed by
• 1:00:11
  autopsy photographs. It also appears E was the was
• 1:00:15
  the Killing book. It also appears, based on
• 1:00:17
  photographs, that this stab wound resulted in penetration of
• 1:00:20
  the right lung, not just the left lung.
• 1:00:23
  Whether there was also an injury to the left lung as stated in
• 1:00:26
  the report, cannot be adequately assessed by the autopsy
• 1:00:29
  photographs. By the way, the fact that they
• 1:00:34
  are saying that she is saying that there are photographs of
• 1:00:40
  the organs is an indication to me that the Greenbergs did not
• 1:00:47
  receive all of the photographs in in the file because can't see
• 1:00:56
  them. There are small but significant
• 1:01:03
  omissions in the description of internal injuries associated
• 1:01:06
  with stab wound. N on the surface of the anterior
• 1:01:09
  right side of the pawns at the right middle cerebellar pundical
• 1:01:16
  is a superficial incised wound with hemorrhage.
• 1:01:19
  The incision is best seen on photos of the brain taken after
• 1:01:23
  formalin fixation. The hemorrhage visible in the
• 1:01:26
  incision indicates that it was an anti mortem injury and not an
• 1:01:30
  artifact of the autopsy process. Doctor Osborne's report also
• 1:01:34
  described subarachnoid hemorrhage on the cerebellar
• 1:01:38
  vermis and right cerebellar hemisphere, which corresponds
• 1:01:43
  with autopsy photographs. However, they these photographs
• 1:01:46
  also show subarachnoid hemorrhage on the left
• 1:01:49
  cerebellar hemisphere near the vermis, on the inferior aspect
• 1:01:53
  of the right temporal lobe of the brain near the Foreman
• 1:01:57
  Magnum and the anterior right sides of the ponds in medulla.
• 1:02:01
  These areas of subarachnoid hemorrhage are visible in
• 1:02:04
  photographs of the brain both at the time of the autopsy and
• 1:02:07
  after formal and fixation. OK Blunt impact injuries.
• 1:02:13
  OK, Thank you. Doctor Osborne's autopsy report
• 1:02:16
  described a total of 11 contusions on the right upper
• 1:02:19
  arm, right forearm, right lower abdomen and right thigh.
• 1:02:23
  There's no description in the autopsy report to indicate which
• 1:02:26
  of these contusions Dr. Osborne believed to be resolving.
• 1:02:30
  It is the opinion of the undersigned that the described
• 1:02:32
  contusion of the right upper arm and some of the contusions of
• 1:02:35
  the right forearm and and thigh were resolving.
• 1:02:38
  The remaining documented contusions of the right forearm,
• 1:02:41
  abdomen and thigh appear to be more recent.
• 1:02:45
  After review of the photographs, the undersigned identified the
• 1:02:48
  following contusions, which were omitted from the autopsy report.
• 1:02:52
  These injuries have been subdivided into those documented
• 1:02:56
  in Doctor Osborne's autopsy notes and those that were
• 1:02:59
  completely undocumented. The commentary on the color and
• 1:03:02
  shape of the conclusions is that of the underside.
• 1:03:05
  Let's see what she says. 234567891011121314151617181920.
• 1:03:17
  OK, so 20 + 11 is 31. I counted 59 and I stand by it
• 1:03:25
  like I I've gone through that. I've gone through those photos
• 1:03:28
  so many times. Maybe maybe they consider ones
• 1:03:33
  that are just almost completely resolved but still there non
• 1:03:38
  contusions I guess. I don't know.
• 1:03:40
  But I'm glad that they did at least add in 20 more.
• 1:03:48
  There are also internal findings of blunt impact which were not
• 1:03:51
  described in Doctor Osborne's report.
• 1:03:53
  Autopsy photographs of the anterior neck dissections show 2
• 1:03:57
  discrete areas of hemorrhage and the right sternothyroid muscle
• 1:04:02
  at the level of the thyroid gland.
• 1:04:04
  It should be noted that depending on the orientation of
• 1:04:07
  the body when these injuries occurred, they may correspond to
• 1:04:10
  the surface contusion on the anterior neck described above.
• 1:04:16
  Contusions on her neck. Where does it say.
• 1:04:20
  I'm glad that she mentioned that?
• 1:04:24
  Yeah, Didn't even. He never mentioned the one on
• 1:04:26
  her forehead. And there is the neck.
• 1:04:30
  There is the neck. OK, All right, I'm going to skip
• 1:04:41
  the summary of events, summary of police interviews.
• 1:04:45
  We, we know what, what happened. Oh, I would.
• 1:04:56
  Oh, no, we're going to we're going to skip over this stuff.
• 1:04:58
  You guys can read it. Patrons can, can grab it.
• 1:05:03
  There is a 6th floor neighbor. Yep.
• 1:05:11
  Yeah. Let me, let me just read this
• 1:05:12
  one. Neighbor, subsequently referred
• 1:05:14
  to as Neighbor A by the undersigned, reportedly exit the
• 1:05:16
  elevator onto the 6th floor sometime between 5:30 and 5:45.
• 1:05:20
  At this point, Neighbor A reportedly saw Ellen's fiance in
• 1:05:23
  the hallway knocking on the apartment door and asking to be
• 1:05:26
  let inside. After this initial encounter,
• 1:05:28
  the neighbor went into their apartment and overheard the
• 1:05:30
  fiance continuing to knock on the apartment door.
• 1:05:33
  After approximately 15 minutes in their apartment, Neighbor A
• 1:05:36
  walked back into the hallway and reportedly told the fiance that
• 1:05:39
  the front desk had a master key to unlock the apartment doors.
• 1:05:42
  At this point, the fiance reportedly told Neighbor A that
• 1:05:45
  he was locked out because the door was latched from the
• 1:05:47
  inside. Ellen's fiance reportedly
• 1:05:50
  forcibly pushed open the door to show Neighbor A the problem.
• 1:05:54
  While this neighbor couldn't see the latch engaged at this point,
• 1:05:57
  they reportedly noted the latch reverberating and making noise
• 1:06:01
  when the fiance pushed the door. According to Neighbor A, it was
• 1:06:03
  clear the door was latched. Yeah, I don't buy that he didn't
• 1:06:09
  see it. He didn't see it.
• 1:06:12
  After that encounter, Neighbor A reportedly returned to their
• 1:06:15
  apartment. This neighbor estimated that the
• 1:06:17
  fiance had intermittently knocked and asked to be let into
• 1:06:20
  the apartment for approximately an hour following the neighbors
• 1:06:23
  first sighting of him in the hall, blah blah blah.
• 1:06:26
  There was another neighbor as well.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, OK. The psychiatrist, Ellen's
• 1:06:35
  psychiatrist, reported that she only had three sessions with
• 1:06:37
  Ellen prior to her death. The psychiatrist indicated that
• 1:06:40
  Ellen talked about issues relating to her being a teacher.
• 1:06:43
  According to the psychiatrist, when Ellen spoke of her fiance
• 1:06:49
  during the sessions, it was when she appeared to be the happiest.
• 1:06:54
  Yeah, Ellen's friends were interviewed.
• 1:06:57
  OK, let let's read the second police interview with Ellen's
• 1:07:00
  fiance. OK, so Ellen's fiance, by the
• 1:07:04
  way, let me describe this. When when Sam Goldberg reported
• 1:07:12
  to the police station for his second interview, he was
• 1:07:19
  accompanied by a lawyer. That lawyer, I mean, I don't, I
• 1:07:29
  don't know what his hourly rate, his billable rate was at the
• 1:07:32
  time, but he has become famous for being one of the most
• 1:07:38
  expensive criminal defense attorneys in the nation.
• 1:07:42
  His name is Brian Mcmonagle and he defends mobsters, he defends
• 1:07:50
  celebrities, he defends all sorts of people that need a good
• 1:07:54
  criminal defense attorney. And I would not, I do not object
• 1:07:58
  to Mr. Goldberg having a lawyer. But we should note that because
• 1:08:06
  his lawyer was present, there were a lot of things, a lot of
• 1:08:09
  questions he wasn't going to answer.
• 1:08:11
  I'm sure he was told by Mr. Mcmoneagle, you're not answering
• 1:08:15
  that. You're not answering that.
• 1:08:18
  Do not answer that. I'm sure he was.
• 1:08:21
  But so, just so you know, before we read this, that was the
• 1:08:26
  situation, OK? Ellen's fiance elaborated on his
• 1:08:30
  prior statement to police given on the night of the incident.
• 1:08:34
  He described Ellen as being very stressed out about school the
• 1:08:37
  day of her death. Specifically, Ellen worked as a
• 1:08:40
  first grade teacher and her grades were due.
• 1:08:43
  He stated Ellen was trying to work on the day of the incident,
• 1:08:46
  but seemed unable to concentrate.
• 1:08:50
  Yeah, I wonder why. He described Ellen as seeming to
• 1:08:52
  have lost confidence in her teaching abilities at the
• 1:08:55
  beginning of the 2010 school year, and that that this caused
• 1:08:59
  her to her work to take over her life.
• 1:09:02
  Ellen reportedly avoided social events with more frequency near
• 1:09:05
  the time of the incident, citing work related issues.
• 1:09:09
  Except, except photos from from Ellen's phone and her camera
• 1:09:18
  indicate that she was going to lots of social events.
• 1:09:23
  Maybe. Maybe they went to social events
• 1:09:25
  every night and she pulled back a night a week or so.
• 1:09:29
  I don't know, but whatever. In January, when Ellen started
• 1:09:35
  getting depressed, he is the only person to ever say that.
• 1:09:39
  By the way, her doctor never said it.
• 1:09:43
  She never said it. That I've been able to find, you
• 1:09:48
  know, her parents never heard it.
• 1:09:51
  She, she was not depressed. She was anxious.
• 1:09:54
  OK, He apparently said she started getting depressed.
• 1:09:59
  She reportedly asked her fiance if he would still love her if
• 1:10:02
  she was crazy. He reportedly assured Ellen that
• 1:10:06
  his love was unconditional. At some point, Ellen also
• 1:10:09
  reportedly told her fiance that she just wanted to feel like her
• 1:10:13
  old self again. Remember, Ellen, in my opinion,
• 1:10:21
  was trying to leave. She had asked her parents if she
• 1:10:24
  could come home. She had asked a cousin if she
• 1:10:28
  could stay there. When the cousin asked is it
• 1:10:32
  going to be you or is it going to be you and Sam, she changed
• 1:10:35
  the subject and never brought it up again.
• 1:10:38
  All of her toiletries were packed.
• 1:10:41
  I She was leaving, man. Yeah, I and so in my opinion,
• 1:10:51
  based on all of the bruising and the fact that I cannot find any
• 1:10:57
  evidence that Ellen played rugby, tackle football, water
• 1:11:02
  polo or any other high contact sport, I think those bruises
• 1:11:11
  were coming from elsewhere. In my opinion, Ellen was living
• 1:11:15
  in an abusive relationship. That's what the evidence says to
• 1:11:18
  me. Ellen was reportedly, it
• 1:11:22
  continues under the care of a psychiatrist.
• 1:11:24
  For this work related stress, Ellen was prescribed Zoloft and
• 1:11:30
  Ambien. Ambien at first, but reported
• 1:11:34
  reportedly stopped taking the Zoloft at some point because she
• 1:11:37
  said it made her feel lackadaisical and zombie like.
• 1:11:40
  Ellen was then reportedly switched to Xanax.
• 1:11:44
  Ellen's fiance denied knowledge of any prior self harm or having
• 1:11:48
  serious concerns about Ellen's mental state prior to the
• 1:11:51
  incident. The only health concerns Ellen
• 1:11:53
  had that the fiance was reportedly aware of were night
• 1:11:56
  sweats and episodes of an elevated heart rate.
• 1:12:01
  Goldberg explained that he didn't force entry into the
• 1:12:04
  apartment sooner on the day of the incident because he thought
• 1:12:06
  perhaps Ellen was in the shower, working with headphones on, or
• 1:12:10
  napping. Ellen would reportedly only
• 1:12:12
  latch the apartment door when she went to sleep or when the
• 1:12:15
  fiance traveled. Reportedly, Ellen did not
• 1:12:18
  normally latch the door shut when her fiance went to the gym.
• 1:12:21
  The fiance reported speaking to a neighbor in the hallway while
• 1:12:24
  he was trying to enter the apartment on the night of the
• 1:12:26
  incident. This neighbor reportedly
• 1:12:28
  suggested that the fiance go to the front desk to get a spare
• 1:12:32
  key. The fiance reportedly responded
• 1:12:34
  that he had his keys, but that the door was latched from the
• 1:12:36
  inside. When Ellen's fiance, she's going
• 1:12:40
  to great lengths to not name Sam Goldberg.
• 1:12:45
  When Goldberg forced, reportedly, let's say forced
• 1:12:49
  entry into the apartment and called 911, he reportedly agreed
• 1:12:52
  to provide CPR with the 911 operator's assistance.
• 1:12:55
  Which I don't think he did, but I mean, I have to, right?
• 1:12:59
  When the fiance prepared to get Ellen lying flat on the floor,
• 1:13:02
  he reportedly saw the knife in her chest and informed the
• 1:13:04
  operator of the same. The 911 operator reportedly
• 1:13:08
  advised him to stop attempting to render aid.
• 1:13:11
  The couple reportedly got engaged in June of 2010 and
• 1:13:15
  their wedding was planned to take place on August 23rd, 2011.
• 1:13:19
  Ellen's fiance denied any prior domestic issue with Ellen
• 1:13:22
  requiring police or parental involvement while at the.
• 1:13:26
  Well, yeah, that's not a denial. That's a denial of police
• 1:13:35
  involvement and parental involvement while at the Police
• 1:13:38
  Department. On this date, Ellen's fiance
• 1:13:40
  volunteered ADNA sample for police to use as a comparison to
• 1:13:44
  DNA on evidence from the incident.
• 1:13:47
  OK, I think that's all I want to read so far because there's just
• 1:13:55
  so much and you guys can take a look at it.
• 1:13:59
  But I'm going to I'm going to go.
• 1:14:07
  Well, first let's bring up Ellen.
• 1:14:09
  I'm going to, I'm going to queue this up and we're going to go to
• 1:14:11
  the last page. But before we do that, let's
• 1:14:14
  take a look at what you guys are saying.
• 1:14:16
  I've been going on for a long, long time.
• 1:14:19
  Let me just see if I can scroll as far up as I can.
• 1:14:28
  OK. Betsy's tag says.
• 1:14:33
  When this first happened, I was already convinced it was a
• 1:14:35
  homicide. It was a no brainer, a very weak
• 1:14:37
  alibi. We live in Western New York, I
• 1:14:40
  want to say. And it was so cold the way he
• 1:14:45
  the way he did her real happy. Loves my hair.
• 1:14:49
  Well, thank you. I have grown tired of it.
• 1:14:56
  It's been cool. So I've never had long hair
• 1:14:59
  before, but wow, is it hot. Like it's hot, right?
• 1:15:02
  Like you always want to have it up anyway.
• 1:15:12
  Archangel Marici OK, this this is a good question.
• 1:15:16
  Let's bring up pictures with Josh and Sandy.
• 1:15:19
  Kevin, I didn't want to ask this, but is there anything put
• 1:15:21
  in place in case Ellen's parents pass away?
• 1:15:24
  I know it's a hard question, but I think Sam and his friends just
• 1:15:27
  want to buy time. So here's what I found out and I
• 1:15:35
  think this is correct. I think it's correct.
• 1:15:39
  There's no other next of kin. So even if another, if another
• 1:15:45
  person were to be named as the administrator or administratrix
• 1:15:52
  of Ellen's estate, they wouldn't have standing.
• 1:15:58
  So if Josh and Sandy were to leave this earth before this is
• 1:16:04
  all figured out, that's the end of it.
• 1:16:10
  Yeah, I've, I've asked that question.
• 1:16:13
  And thank you for thank you for being so I guess gentle in the
• 1:16:18
  way you you asked it. You a Crimson Tide?
• 1:16:29
  Says Gavin. I can't fathom someone emailing
• 1:16:31
  in the middle of trying to contact someone who isn't
• 1:16:33
  responding to knocking texts and calls.
• 1:16:37
  What did the e-mail say that her fiance sent and what time was it
• 1:16:40
  sent? Give me a second.
• 1:16:51
  Well, it's not included in this report.
• 1:16:54
  I have it, but I I'll just characterize it.
• 1:16:59
  OK. It is just basically like you.
• 1:17:03
  You'd really need to open the door.
• 1:17:04
  It's it's the same stuff Kell says.
• 1:17:12
  My hubby has been growing out his hair and beard for shave for
• 1:17:14
  a cure. Looks like a crazy old bushman.
• 1:17:18
  Good for him. It's awesome.
• 1:17:23
  Let's see, I already answered that question.
• 1:17:33
  Oh Paige, I'm terribly sorry for you.
• 1:17:36
  Paige says. I'm watching a bit behind and
• 1:17:38
  heard you mention your dad. I unfortunately lost my sweet
• 1:17:40
  mom today and just wanted to say how beautiful it is that you've
• 1:17:44
  been supporting your dad along his journey.
• 1:17:47
  Paige, I'm terribly sorry for you.
• 1:17:49
  I have been wrestling with mortality of my father.
• 1:17:53
  The the trip back to California was healing to to visit with
• 1:17:59
  them. The most beautiful thing in all
• 1:18:03
  of it is the relationship that my parents have together.
• 1:18:08
  My mom is amazing. I bet your mom was too.
• 1:18:11
  And I'm and I'm so sorry for your loss, Meredith asking how
• 1:18:16
  am I doing? I'm I'm doing better getting
• 1:18:19
  getting past things. I've I've been in touch with
• 1:18:22
  even more friends, like friends from that era, the era that my
• 1:18:31
  mind has been stuck in. So that's been great.
• 1:18:36
  Thank you for asking Melissa Garvey.
• 1:18:41
  The whole point of this lawsuit is to remove the ruling and get
• 1:18:45
  an investigation. She is stating his story as fact
• 1:18:48
  and using that in her findings. How is that even close to being
• 1:18:52
  OK exactly? Ocean City Gold, why don't you
• 1:18:59
  zoom the hearing live and we can all join you on your channel?
• 1:19:03
  I cannot do that because I will subsequently be arrested and
• 1:19:08
  held in contempt of court and criminal charges will be filed
• 1:19:10
  against me because of the weirdness of the Commonwealth of
• 1:19:13
  Pennsylvania. So I just can't do it.
• 1:19:22
  Let's see. This is a good question, Kelly.
• 1:19:30
  I have the same knife. So you have Cutco 1721?
• 1:19:33
  Yep. Can't imagine how he missed it.
• 1:19:35
  Was her hair hanging over it? No, Kelly, No it was not.
• 1:19:39
  Her hair was nowhere near the knife.
• 1:19:42
  And I like, again, let me just come over here.
• 1:19:49
  Nope. Her hair was tied back in a
• 1:19:50
  ponytail, and the only hair that was anywhere other than pulled
• 1:19:57
  back were some of her bangs, which were in front of her.
• 1:20:01
  Left eye, left eye, left eye. Yeah, no, he didn't miss it.
• 1:20:08
  He didn't miss it. He just says he missed it that
• 1:20:11
  in my opinion. How do you miss it?
• 1:20:16
  Yeah, I would love I would love to do the live link cannot do
• 1:20:18
  so. Melissa.
• 1:20:25
  Most of this findings based on the only only the suspect
• 1:20:29
  statement that is correct. Carrie says Gavin, who allegedly
• 1:20:34
  killed her. So I will not say who killed
• 1:20:38
  Ellen Greenberg. All I will say is my suspect is
• 1:20:43
  her fiance, that that would be my the most obvious suspect.
• 1:20:50
  Now, it's possible it was somebody else, possible that it
• 1:20:53
  was more than one person. Sure, it's possible.
• 1:20:58
  But I don't think that door was ever locked.
• 1:21:01
  Latched, I should say. And yeah, I don't, I don't
• 1:21:05
  believe any of the story at all. Susan, welcome as our newest
• 1:21:12
  fanatic. Thank you very much for that
• 1:21:14
  support. Oliver's mommy, do you have any
• 1:21:18
  more live discussions on this case planned tomorrow at 3:30?
• 1:21:21
  And this case is so important to me, guys.
• 1:21:23
  I will always be doing live discussions on this case.
• 1:21:27
  I I will not stop doing them. Yeah, the answer is yes.
• 1:21:33
  We will talk so much. I saw that a couple of you saw
• 1:21:40
  crime analyst. Laura's amazing.
• 1:21:43
  I'm glad that, glad that you listen to her and watch her.
• 1:21:48
  She is great. Lily says.
• 1:21:56
  Isn't there a few impossible stab wounds where the offense
• 1:21:58
  occurred postmortem? There is one where it may have
• 1:22:02
  occurred postmortem. There's no vital response
• 1:22:04
  present. It's in the back of her neck
• 1:22:06
  going into her brain, Kell says. The fact that so much was left
• 1:22:13
  out of the original, the fact that Sandy and Josh didn't
• 1:22:16
  receive the whole file, it screams cover up.
• 1:22:18
  Yes, Karen says. Your hair gives you a most
• 1:22:23
  distinguished Shakespearean appearance.
• 1:22:26
  So I'm I'm working toward a Gaston appearance here.
• 1:22:31
  I want to be able to tie back in like a little bow and I will
• 1:22:36
  have to shave my beard in order to display the swell cleft in my
• 1:22:40
  chin. And of course, I will have to
• 1:22:43
  spend a lot of time at the gym. But you know what, since I
• 1:22:47
  brought that up in my Ask Me Anything live stream the other
• 1:22:52
  day was that just was that Friday I talked about being on a
• 1:22:59
  on a journey to stop being a big old fatso.
• 1:23:01
  I I don't want to be fat Gavin anymore.
• 1:23:06
  I think it's unfair to my Kimberly and my kids and don't
• 1:23:11
  want to be the one that is like taken care of in my old age
• 1:23:16
  because I can't take care of myself.
• 1:23:18
  And so I am on a journey and I have like I'm, I'm doing very
• 1:23:24
  well. I'm doing very well.
• 1:23:27
  I started about two months ago and and I've kept it up, so
• 1:23:34
  maybe someday I will have a Gastonian appearance.
• 1:23:38
  But thank you for the for the compliment of the distinguished
• 1:23:41
  Shakespearean appearance. You know, the last time I was in
• 1:23:45
  a Shakespearean production, I was 17 years old and it was
• 1:23:59
  reimagined and set in the 1970s, so it was a very different look.
• 1:24:04
  We did, what did we do? We did a comedy of errors.
• 1:24:08
  And I imagine that people in the audience probably didn't think
• 1:24:14
  it was so funny because we didn't understand Shakespeare at
• 1:24:17
  that time. I don't know why kids are made
• 1:24:19
  to do Shakespeare. Shakespeare should be left to
• 1:24:22
  grown-ups who who appreciate it. That's very that this is really
• 1:24:27
  a tangent. I apologize for the tangent.
• 1:24:30
  Oh, here. Here's one that I should show.
• 1:24:32
  You guys haven't brought this up yet tonight.
• 1:24:34
  These are the stab wounds from the original autopsy reports.
• 1:24:38
  Missing 3, according to Doctor Simon.
• 1:24:42
  Yeah. And they and they want us to
• 1:24:44
  believe what it is. Mooney, thank you very much for
• 1:24:48
  supporting me that way. Oh, I apologize. 2.54
• 1:24:53
  centimeters an inch, not 2.2. Thank you.
• 1:24:55
  All right. That lawyer is the police's
• 1:25:04
  lawyer. He defends police who have been
• 1:25:06
  accused. Likely paid for by the police
• 1:25:08
  union. Detective Sierra was a police
• 1:25:10
  union Rep. May still be.
• 1:25:13
  Yeah, well, I know that Monagle does represent at least the
• 1:25:19
  SEPTA officers, but Virginia Law, you probably know more than
• 1:25:26
  I do. VA Law one probably know more
• 1:25:28
  than I do. Donna, hi.
• 1:25:35
  You are the best. I'm thoroughly disgusted and sad
• 1:25:37
  by this. Ellen's parents deserve an award
• 1:25:39
  for not physically going after anyone.
• 1:25:41
  Was Josh Shapiro holding her hand while she was filling all?
• 1:25:46
  I don't know. Yeah, it got cut off Donna, but
• 1:25:50
  thank you. And they do deserve an award.
• 1:25:53
  We shall call it the True Grit Award.
• 1:25:59
  Oliver's mommy meant to ask you if you will be having another in
• 1:26:02
  person discussion on her case. Oh, I see, I see.
• 1:26:07
  You know, I would love to do an in person event again.
• 1:26:12
  We did the crime convo in Clarion, PA.
• 1:26:16
  We had a pretty good full house, including Mooney who traveled so
• 1:26:21
  far to be there. I would love to do an in person
• 1:26:28
  event in Philly about this case and I think that I could make it
• 1:26:32
  happen, probably with Joel Waldman.
• 1:26:35
  Maybe we could get Joseph Scott Morgan up there to do it with
• 1:26:39
  us. I'm sure that Josh and Sandy,
• 1:26:43
  given the opportunity, would join us.
• 1:26:46
  Some of her family from the Philadelphia area might join us.
• 1:26:49
  So, yeah, I mean, if that's something that you guys want,
• 1:26:53
  it's something that I really would like to do.
• 1:26:55
  And maybe in January is the time to do it.
• 1:26:57
  On the 15th anniversary. Maybe we should do that.
• 1:27:03
  My my net saloon says please don't go bald and keep in the
• 1:27:06
  back. Well, I got news for you.
• 1:27:10
  This hair is coming off. It's just a matter of how long
• 1:27:14
  it will be when I take it off. You a crime?
• 1:27:19
  Crimson Tide. Gavin, I find it highly alarming
• 1:27:22
  that nobody mentioned that e-mail.
• 1:27:25
  The e-mail that originally was mentioned in the autopsy.
• 1:27:28
  Find it hard to believe that he would stop to send an e-mail to
• 1:27:31
  someone not answering. Yeah, that is weird.
• 1:27:34
  It's weird. Will they still have the same
• 1:27:38
  judge tomorrow They had at the last hearing?
• 1:27:41
  Yes. Yep.
• 1:27:45
  You a Crimson Tide. I'm following you.
• 1:27:47
  I'm following you. Could Ellen's parents set up a
• 1:27:52
  foundation or trust? That mission could be justice
• 1:27:55
  for Ellen? I'm sure they could.
• 1:28:01
  It. It's really up to them.
• 1:28:06
  I know. I'm aware of a lot of good that
• 1:28:09
  Josh and Sandy have done in Ellen's name.
• 1:28:13
  I don't know if they have a foundation or a trust set up,
• 1:28:17
  but in Ellen's name they have done a lot of good.
• 1:28:23
  But I think if Josh and Sandy were to pass away, that would be
• 1:28:28
  the end of it. I, I've, I have consulted with
• 1:28:33
  many a legal scholar on that. I see you applauds me on my
• 1:28:38
  journey. Thank you, Jeannie says.
• 1:28:41
  No wonder he said she wasn't going out.
• 1:28:44
  Maybe she didn't want anyone to see her bruising.
• 1:28:47
  Good point. So the Emmy didn't mention the
• 1:28:51
  performative 911 call where Sam said Ellen fell on a knife.
• 1:28:56
  Correct, Mooney says. I build sets for Midsummer
• 1:29:01
  Night's Dream. Comedy bears awesome.
• 1:29:03
  Built sets, yes, our daughter did Midsummer Night's Dream and
• 1:29:08
  was fantastic. So I take back everything I said
• 1:29:13
  about kids doing Shakespeare and should just say this kid should
• 1:29:17
  never have done Shakespeare. I didn't get it.
• 1:29:20
  I did not get it. I think I just caught up to
• 1:29:23
  everything that you guys have asked.
• 1:29:26
  Lots of great, lots of great comments.
• 1:29:33
  Been amazing thank you guys for for that.
• 1:29:39
  I appreciate you too Mooney for the for gifting the memberships
• 1:29:45
  That was so awesome. OK So what are we going to do
• 1:29:47
  next? So what we're going to do, what
• 1:29:50
  I'm going to do for the next little bit is respond to emails
• 1:29:54
  with a link so that so that those who want to join
• 1:30:02
  respectfully and quietly the hearing tomorrow may do so.
• 1:30:07
  And I will also set up a live stream to report back on what
• 1:30:13
  happened at the at the hearing. We're going to set that for 3:30
• 1:30:18
  PM Eastern. So I will do that tonight and
• 1:30:23
  hopefully tomorrow's going to be a busy day.
• 1:30:27
  I'm going to be on with will be on at 3:30.
• 1:30:30
  I'll be on with Joel at 7 on surviving the survivor and then
• 1:30:34
  I will be on talking about Celeste Rivas Hernandez a little
• 1:30:39
  later than normal, about 8:30. OK, so I don't know if you're if
• 1:30:46
  you're really hungry for your Gavin fix, tomorrow is going to
• 1:30:49
  be a day you're going to be drunk or just completely sick,
• 1:30:52
  more likely sick on Gavin Fish, but that's what we are going to
• 1:30:56
  do. OK with that guys.
• 1:30:58
  Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:31:01
  It looks like we had about 400 of us on today.
• 1:31:03
  That really is amazing. I this is Ellen Greenberg is
• 1:31:10
  extremely important to me. I never knew Ellen, but I
• 1:31:14
  consider Josh and Sandy my friends.
• 1:31:16
  I consider Sandy like a surrogate mom and I've got an
• 1:31:21
  awesome mom. When when I talk with my mom,
• 1:31:26
  she always checks in on Sandy. And when I talk with Sandy, she
• 1:31:29
  checks in on my parents and and my kids.
• 1:31:32
  So they're people that I deeply care about, want.
• 1:31:36
  And I want justice for Ellen, a woman I never knew but feel like
• 1:31:40
  I I know well through covering this case for so long.
• 1:31:46
  Yeah, it just means so much. Let's real quick do the
• 1:31:50
  obligatory self promotion. My website isgavinfish.com.
• 1:32:00
  On gavinfish.com you'll see all my latest blog posts.
• 1:32:03
  You'll see crime cod articles. Check out Crime Cod, my true
• 1:32:06
  crime website. Please go ahead and sign up for
• 1:32:09
  the newsletter. We've got like 2700 people
• 1:32:12
  signed up to the newsletter now, which is pretty awesome.
• 1:32:17
  And my writers, Jake and Kate and I write occasionally for
• 1:32:21
  Crime Cod. We try to give you the latest
• 1:32:24
  news on cases that you care about, so please check that out
• 1:32:29
  when you're on gavinfish.com. There's a little icon up here at
• 1:32:32
  the top, the little fishy. Click on it.
• 1:32:34
  That will take you over to the fish tank where about 5 1/2
• 1:32:37
  thousand of us hang out to talk about true crime.
• 1:32:42
  Course, Ellen is front and center lately, but it's not just
• 1:32:49
  Ellen. It's so many other things.
• 1:32:51
  And there's the case that was going to be today, but we will
• 1:32:54
  be covering tomorrow. I may have, I've talked with
• 1:32:59
  Sandy Greenberg about coming on. She's not quite sure about her
• 1:33:04
  and Josh coming on. Not quite sure.
• 1:33:07
  But I'll check in with her and see if we can have her on to
• 1:33:09
  talk about this a little bit. Maybe we can give them some
• 1:33:13
  moral support. OK with that, I will stop with
• 1:33:17
  the never ending false endings and just bid you a deal.
• 1:33:22
  See you on the next one. Thank you very much for watching
• 1:33:25
  this video. If you liked what you saw,
• 1:33:27
  please consider subscribing. And if you have any questions or
• 1:33:31
  comments, please leave them below.