Latest / Commander's Intent / Who Is Garcia and Why Does His Message Still Matter to Leaders?

Transcript

Who Is Garcia and Why Does His Message Still Matter to Leaders? · Commander's Intent

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever frozen in the key moment of making a critical decision?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's in business or in life, it can cost you everything.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Commander's Intent will teach and inspire you how to lead with clarity, courage, and purpose.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: So here's your host, retired Air Force Colonel, fighter pilot, and your leadership mentor, Derek Oaks.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hello again, I'm Derek Oaks and welcome to another episode of Commander's Intent.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with my co-host Rob Powell, and we are going to talk about Message to Garcia.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Rob, why don't you tell me a little bit about the first time you heard a message to Garcia and really why it has grabbed the attention of so many people.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, give me the quick outline of what Message to Garcia was and then how it's been used over the last several years.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I actually don't remember the first time that I ever got Message to Garcia.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing it was probably in some leadership class or something at the Air Force Academy.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's my guess.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I do know that it's been used over the last at least 50 years as an instructional essay to try to help people understand the types of innovation and ingenuity and drive and aggressiveness that they kind of expect out of military members and officers in particular.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: This particular essay, the message to Garcia, is an essay by a guy named Elbert Hubbard, written in 1899 about an event that I'm only guessing that it was for factual because I haven't heard anything else.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: When war broke out, the Spanish-American War in the late 1800s, the American government was trying to get a message to one of the insurgents, uh, this General Garcia.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And President McKinley was trying to figure out how am I going to get a message to this insurgent that's somewhere in Cuba, I don't really know where he is, and who was brought to his attention was this guy, Lieutenant Rowan.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Lieutenant Rowan was given the instructions to deliver this message to Garcia.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And according to the essay, this Lieutenant Rowan was a man of integrity and drive and ingenuity, and he walks out of uh DC and finds himself the way and the means to A, find General Garcia, and B, to deliver that message to General Garcia.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: The underlying point of the essay, generally, that most people try to take away is Lieutenant Well was the epitome of what we expect out of an officer or a military member or a team member that can take vague direction and to run with it and get the mission done.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's been used throughout my career and a number of times by different bosses in different ways to try to help us understand or to help motivate young leaders to feel better, terror, move out and draw fire, to go and just run in your sphere of influence and take care of business without continually coming back to your boss and asking for further instruction.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's in a nutshell.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: The message to Garcia, that's what it is.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it's essentially been used and taught, I think, at the Naval Academy, West Point, Air Force Academy, probably a lot of the military schools in and around the leadership instructions.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that it's been translated and used in a lot of business leadership management courses, CEOs, whatsoever, to try to understand how to motivate and get people to be like Lieutenant Rowan delivering his message to Garcia.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's also been a lot of criticism about Message to Garcia, how it's it's outdated, how it is sophomoric, how it doesn't really get to the crux of the issue on what makes a good worker, what makes a good organization.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on some of those critiques?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I personally am not a fan of the way that we have used Message to Garcia and the way I think most leaders use a message to Garcia.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had a boss in the military, actually, you know, in the government, who kept saying, I need the message to Garcia, just go deliver the message to Garcia.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this boss in particular, and like I've seen many others do, they've used this message to Garcia as a shorthand for, hey, I don't want to know the details, just get something done.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to give you guidance because you should be as good as Lieutenant Rowan.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that I think is the critiques that are valid.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Those are absolutely valid critiques.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: There are some other critiques of the essay in itself, because obviously Albert Hubbard is uh a man of his age.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's very disparaging of people who sit back and do nothing, wait to be told, and he disparages the idea of the academic who's digging through books and whatever.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't worry about that so much as I do worry about how it's used now.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think the biggest critique that I have is for leaders that use it as a crutch to help them not to define their vision, to not define their boundaries, to not have to define their authorities or responsibilities.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, they just say, Well, I want this.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: My biggest critique is that we no longer live in an age when this could ever happen.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I say that is because I thought about it from my standpoint.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: As a if someone would have told me as a Lieutenant Colonel Colonel Pentagon, you know, Colonel Pennell, I need you to deliver a message to Garcia in the mountains of Afghanistan.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where he is, but you know, figure it out.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I would have faced a different, a different bureaucratic nightmare than I think what Lieutenant Rowan did.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because immediately had I gone out and just started making my own reservations for travel to get myself to Afghanistan however I saw fit to hop on this airline, and I'm gonna go from point A to point B, and I'm gonna get to Afghanistan, and I'm gonna hire a guide to help me get in the mountains, and I'm gonna Well, you know as well as I do that as soon as you know you start doing that, that the bureaucratic admin travel agency, people are like, well, that's not a government-approved travel source.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the fare that we negotiated.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: The bureaucratic nightmare would just be phonomical.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I've made the argument for years that we do not live in an environment now where Message de Garcia is relevant from that standpoint.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: That to just expect someone to be able to go do something because after the fact somebody's gonna question everything that they did to get it done.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the second piece is he doesn't talk about it in the essay, but it doesn't talk at all about any of the feedback that Lieutenant Rowan, I mean, from what I gather from the essay, Lieutenant Rowan walks out of the office and out into the world and returns and reports and says, I did this.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: But you and I both know that in today's society, military or a corporate, I will guarantee you that whoever was his boss would be asking for daily situation reports.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: What did you do?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, how come you're in Cuba?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you do this?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: What I mean, all of these things that come with it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think the real lesson, real message to Garcia now for us in the present day, is how do we help as leaders and as followers?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: How do we, as leaders, help to define the mission, the vision, the responsibilities, authorities, boundaries to help our people be able to move out and draw fire to take care of business inside of our commanders and ten.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's the real mission.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do we enable a Lieutenant Rowan mindset?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do we enable Lieutenant Rowan to be able to, as you say, move out and draw fire, to be able to go find Garcia without getting henpecked all along the way?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the real question.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think the as I read Messengeons to Garcia and I think about how it's been used, to me, the question is, and it is more relevant today than it was back then.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Am I, as the leader, am I giving authority along with that responsibility?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And am I giving the resources in order to do it?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of time we give people responsibility, but we don't give them authority because the authority ultimately rests with us as the supervisor, and we're either skittish about giving it or we're afraid of the blowback if something goes wrong.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we say, Well you guys, you go figure it out.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so you give them the responsibility.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: They've got all the weight on their shoulders, but they don't have the authority to act.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a terrible situation to be in.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: A term that I use quite a bit and I will continue to use is go ahead and run with scissors, you know, where you want somebody to go, but I'm giving, in doing that, I have to make sure that I'm giving the resources and I'm giving the authorities to be able to run with scissors.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And where we get into trouble as leaders sometimes is when we micromanage Lieutenant Rowan to where we tell him to run out and run with scissors to, yeah, you've got it, you take care of it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then when he doesn't do it the way when we want him to do it, we constantly handpeck and criticize him.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, well, so am I in charge here or am I not in charge?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Am I given the authority, responsibility, and the resources, or am I not?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Am I just an extension of my boss?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Am I just doing what my boss is telling me?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: In which case, there is no initiative, and you're still taking care of the supervisor.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: For me, message to Garcia, you know, it's a pat on the back to Lieutenant Rowan, and it's making Lieutenant Rowan out to be this great heroic subordinate.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he is.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but you know, from all that I've read and just this little story, whether or not it's true, he is.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the real question you have to ask yourself is as the leader, what am I doing to grow Lieutenant Rowan's?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: What am I doing to give him, to create an environment where he can be all that he can be, where he can feel empowered and to do what he needs to do and where he's gonna embrace his responsibilities and run with it, not come back and ask you a thousand different questions.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're not given the authority, if you're micromanaging, then he Lieutenant Rowan's gonna be hesitant.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's not gonna get the job done in a timely manner.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's not gonna meet your expectations unless he is just doing exactly what you tell him to do, in which case, you should have just done the job yourself.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what happened so often as an aside on micromanagement.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had a boss and his level of micromanagement, he never actually, it didn't seem like he was micromanaging, but he would micromanage by through death by a thousand questions.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you didn't do it the way he wanted you to do it, you were going to do the job, and you were going to stand up and brief that you did the job and how you did the job.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you didn't do it the way the boss wanted it done, the how he wanted it done, and if you didn't understand his how, then you heard about it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you walked, everybody walked on eggshells of am I doing it the way the boss wants me to do it?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he asked a thousand questions.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: He needed so much information that you spent your whole time feeding his ego and feeding his understanding.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was like he had to know your job better than you so that he could supervise you.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of understanding your overall mission and trusting you with it, giving the authority, the responsibility, and the resources to do your job, he had to know your job better than you.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then he was going to second guess the way you were doing it all the time.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't develop Lieutenant Rowans that way.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You develop robots that way.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'll go back to your initial question, and you allude to it there.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: How do you develop Lieutenant Rowan's?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think there are two factors that go into what enabled Lieutenant Rowan to go do what he did.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Number one is confidence.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: He had confidence in himself and his abilities.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't say, well, gee, I know what I'm doing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, if he had confidence, then he could by himself go out and figure out the problem set, come up with a solution, execute the solution, and come back with no problems.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So there's confidence.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other part of that confidence is, and it kind of alludes to at the beginning of the essay, that Lieutenant Rowan understood that there were others in his leadership command that had confidence in him, that gave him this task because they knew he was the guy that could get it done.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think confidence is one piece.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how do you instill confidence in your subordinates, in your workers?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's done over time.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: The second piece is trust.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll talk about that in the same way.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, it showed that McKinley, through others, trusted this Lieutenant Rowan to get the message to Garcia.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: On the flip side of that, Lieutenant Rowan also had a trust that he could go out and execute the mission and that his bosses weren't going to come back and second guess everything he did or throw him under the bus for, well, you know, boss, he didn't use the proper travel authorization numbers, you know, he's not going to get reimbursed for the$30,000 that he spent on the steamship from the Florida Keys to Cuba or whatever.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm being completely facetious.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that there's those two things confidence and trust.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: If your workers are confident in themselves and their abilities through experience and training, and if they trust that you have their back as a leader, and that in giving them in these authorities, responsibilities, and tasks, that you are going to have their back, that you're going to be the one that will take the brunt of any kickback that comes, instead of just saying, Well, it's not me.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I passed that off to Lieutenant Rowan, and he made those decisions, it's not my fault.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have confidence and trust in those in those areas to enable a Lieutenant Rowan to move out and draw five.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you completely.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So let me ask you this though.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: I again, I've had it used as a cudgel over my head many times by poor leadership to mask their failings in coming up with a strategy, a vision, a plan, anything.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically uh, you figure it out, it's not on me.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you check yourself?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's great, we all want to make Lieutenant Rowans, but I think it really probably starts with the leader and how they set up the task.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you make sure that you don't expect too much out of your workers?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know that you're not expecting them to be innovative and genius just to cover up for your failings?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, something I was gonna say is that as I read something like SIA, I see these kind of critiques of workers and the working class or critiques of subordinates in general.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think what what I always go back to is, how am I in all of this?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: What is my responsibility in all of this?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can sit here and point a finger at somebody else and I can say, we'd have a great organization if only for that individual.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if only I could get that person to do their job, we'd be fantastic.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of taking a pause and saying, hmm, this person's not responding the way I want them to respond, they're not acting the way I want them to act.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: What am I not doing to get them to motivate them?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: What am I not doing to inspire them?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: What am I not giving them as their supervisor?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes both ways.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we point a finger at the leader and say, this leader sucks.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: This leader's not doing what they should be doing.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: When what we really need to say is, how can I make this organization better?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: How can I make this climate, this culture better?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I'm lacking that will make this organization function at a higher level?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we're quick to point fingers at somebody else, we're quick to armchair quarterback and backseat drive instead of asking ourselves, okay, my hand is on the stick, my hand is on the wheel, I am responsible for what I'm responsible for.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: What am I doing about it?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And how am I making the culture and the environment better so that everybody can operate?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Hubbard was criticizing the non-Lieutenant Rowan's of the world.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the question he should have been asking, well, well, I appreciate his analysis and I thought it brought up some great points.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: What he should have probably been asking is what are supervisors doing to grow Lieutenant Rowans?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is your standard when each supervisor that has all these slovenly lazy subordinates, what is he doing that has made these subordinates slovenly and lazy?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Were they just born that way?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Were they just naturally lazy and good for nothing?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you not doing your job as a supervisor?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you not doing your job as the person in charge?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're responsible, if you have the authority and you have the responsibility, ultimately it all falls on your shoulders.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And pointing fingers at everyone around you doesn't do you any good.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean that it's always going to be, when you go to fault finding, it's always going to be your fault.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if you start with yourself first, if you start and ask yourself, how am I talking and how am I helping the situation or how am I hurting the situation?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Chances are you're going to make progress a whole lot more quickly than if you're assuming that somebody else is the problem.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're absolutely right in all of that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's the big takeaway of Message to Garcia of, yeah, Lieutenant Rowan's awesome.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: What was what enabled Lieutenant Rowan?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And for all those non-Lieutenant Rowans out there, how am I not helping them?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I need to do to help them become that subordinate with initiative, that somebody who doesn't need to be coddled and handheld the whole time?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of environment am I setting up that allows them, that empowers them to do that?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I go back to what we said at the very beginning.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you said it too.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Resources go with responsibility and authority.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have all three, then you're just hoping on a prayer that somebody's going to show initiative and you're really you're setting them up for failure if you don't give them all those things.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting because I had some, you know, obviously, some experiences, both myself as a subordinate and as a leader, where what's implied a little bit in the essay for Professor Garcia, but not as said explicitly as kind of what the expectations of Lieutenant Rowan were.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, Lieutenant Rowan was expected to be a good steward of the public's money.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, he's not gonna in today's parlance.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I could get a private jet to fly me down to Cuba for a hundred thousand dollars, probably not the best use of the public's resources.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: In the essay, it kind of alludes to is that there was an innate responsibility that he understood his role as a steward.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think that he probably got that from the confidence and trust of his leaders before, and he had proved himself.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: He had proved himself to be a person that would be able to carry out the mission without having too much direction, but he wouldn't do things in a way that would be embarrassing or fraudulent or whatever else.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: These are the things that I think most leaders worry about today.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so this goes back to something that I've talked about a lot, is building that culture, that culture between leaders and followers.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, one of the best things that I think ever happened to me as a young, young lieutenant is I had one of my superiors give me the key, I think, the key to helping me think and act at the right level, but inside my purview.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that advice was this guy said, Look, I need you helping to solve the boss's boss's problem.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so to me, that was okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: The guy talking to me was my boss.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was a division leader, flight leader there in my squadron.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And his boss was the squadron commander.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so what he was trying to tell me was think about the squadron commander's problems in your area.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And my area at the time was mobility, logistics, and computers.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, you know, the boss doesn't know all of the stuff about this area.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: He needs you to take care of it, but you need to do so thinking about his problems.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And in doing so, I think he helped me understand that I couldn't A, I couldn't do things that were outside of the Air Force rules because the boss couldn't.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And anything outside the Air Force rules was going to bring problems, more problems to him.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And number two, that I had to be able to answer for those at that level.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: So anything I did, I had to pass that SNP test, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had to make sure that what I was doing was solving my boss's boss's problems and not creating more.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I've used that at every single level through my career.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that worked for me as a lieutenant, that worked for me as a major, that worked for me as a lieutenant colonel and a colonel.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I think about that when I worked at the White House.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my boss was, you know, senior espresso advisor of the president for counterterrorism, and her boss was the deputy national security advisor.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so my goal was to try to solve my boss's boss's problems.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: So now I have to start thinking, like the deputy national security advisor and what she's gonna tell her bosses.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: What's she gonna tell the national security advisor?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: What's she gonna tell the president?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And in doing that, it helped me as a subordinate gain perspective and take ingenuity or take initiative using my own ingenuity to solve those problems.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's kind of where I come down.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the discussion.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've lost this.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend that you read Message Garcia.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's 1500 words, it'll take you but a few minutes, and then think about it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing as you think about it is not to think, how can I become like Lieutenant Rowan, although that's important.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just look at the seat you're sitting in and ask yourself, how am I making my culture, my situation, my organization better or worse?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: If we have work disconnects, if we have leaders that aren't communicating well, if I have subordinates that aren't following well, how can I help that situation?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: How can I make that better?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the real takeaway that I have from Message to Garcia.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're still wondering who Garcia is, if you're not even sure what we were talking about, then drop us a line at astericnow.com and we'll have an ongoing or continued conversation on who Message DeGarcia is and why his message was so important for the last hundred plus years.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't already done so, follow us and together we'll continue becoming better decision makers for better results.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it for today's episode of Commander's Intent Podcast.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Head on over to Apple Podcasts iTunes or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will be entered in a grand prize drawing to win a$25,000 private exclusive leadership coaching package with Derek Oaks himself.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So head on over to Commanders Intense Podcast.com and pick up a free copy of Derek's Leadership Guide and join us on the next episode.