Latest / Exploring Fashion Futures With Dr.HB / She sells $20 million worth of luxury men'swear and footwear to retail buyers!
Transcript
- Jung: Welcome to my podcast. Thank you. Exploring Fashion Futures with Dr. HB. Because, you know, everybody calls me Dr. HB. By the way, I'm a professor and the department chair of textile and apparel management at University of Missouri. I traveled to New York City today to meet with one of my alumni, our alumni, Molly Brenner, the way I know it, but now she's a Ullom so I can't wait to find out what it what it's like to be a Ullom after this. But I wanted to learn more about what you do every day, how your career started, and just wanted to know more about everything about fashion in general. Yeah. All right, we ready? Yeah, we're ready. Okay, so let's ready. So, in one sentence, tell me who are you? Who am I? My name is Molly Ullom I live in Hoboken, New Jersey. Work in Manhattan, and I am a Senior account executive for a luxury fashion company. What is a senior account? What what does that mean, senior account executive? Yes. Could you explain that what that role is as if I'm 12 years old? I don't know anything about it. I'm not your professor. Like So let's say you're going to the mall, right? And you're going into your favorite department store and they have all this beautiful clothing picked out and they have sections by brand or by gender or by category. And there's all sorts of different brands represented. Now, with those brands being represented, there's a little selection. It's not the whole store, but there's just a little curation of that, you know, brand. I work with those department stores to curate that small selection in their store. So I'm pretty much working with department stores as well as online retailers. They're called buyers. They basically pick The clothing, like if you were to go into a, you know, giant store that had everything under the sun, they're gonna say, I want this, this, this, this for their maybe, you know, personal closet, but their personal closet happens to be a department store or, you know, the company they work for. Okay. I am an expert in the brand that I work for, and I'm helping them pick the best assortment for their customer. So whether that be, you know, looking at previous sales history, we love to look at. Data, right? Because we're not just gonna go in and say, this shirt is really pretty or I I personally love the way this looks, right? We could do that, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean something, right? It's not creating a story or it's not really impacting anything. You have to think about every, you know, retailer, every department store that I work with has a different customer. So you're really focusing in on what is that customer. The buyer who I work with is that expert. I'm the expert in the brand I work for. We're working together to figure out what makes sense for the two of us, right? How can the brand that I work for and the department store meet in the middle to create the most beautiful assortment and beautiful clothing that'll will make both of us happy? Can you explain a little bit more of that? What do you mean by like my buyer has their goal and I have my goal for my brand? Yeah. And we have to make a sort of a meet in the middle. Yeah. Can you give us a like a more specific example? Yeah. So a for example, like department stores. They have buyers that, you know, pick all their product and all the, you know, their clothing and they have certain, you know, needs that need to be met on their end. Whether for example, if I'm a I don't know, Northstrom. Yeah. My need is to sell this amount of money. Yep. By allocating this amount of space for this particular brand. Yep. Because I know my customer, because they are tend to be this type of customers. Like how much money are they make, how many f family members they have, or what's their lifestyle. Okay. So that's their need. Yep. And then your brand's need could be We're using the retailer not only to basically sell to existing customers that expect our product to be there, that rely on going there to get, you know. their basic top or going there to get a fashion piece from us that we love. But we're also looking to acquire new customers, right? So kind of continuing to give the current customer what they need with acquiring new customers as well. Gotcha. Yeah. So like for example, from brand side, like for example, when when you see a Ralph Lauren, it's just such an Americana brand. Like, so that means they are targeting for certain type of lifestyle or value system customers. Right. While I don't know what other brands are out there. Like what is it? The Kate Spade has a like a l cute little young professional that's their target. So your brand has a specific imi image and brand identity. Correct. And you trying to match that with that Nordstrom or Macy's or Dillard's mission. Yeah, it's all about marrying the two because at the end of the day, a department store or an online retailer Has such a bigger platform than one's own like independent store. Like a like like the independent like retailer, like on the boutique store on Fifth Ave, right? It's beautiful and it's curated and it's selective. But you know, if someone's walking in there, they probably already know the brand. They probably already have in mind maybe what they want to buy. Whereas in, you know, a department store, even when you're, you know, surfing the web, you can come across things, right? You can acquire. New people and new things. You can also a lot of people like to shop multiple brands, right? Think about when you go to the mall. yeah. You go into a department store. You can shop multiple brands within the same, you know, square footage. Like at you know, certain department stores you can work with like a stylist, right? They'll pick out for you, they'll curate all this stuff of everything from, you know, ten different brands and you didn't even have to leave that store. That's right. Which is a huge benefit. I might I might get like a pair of pants from brand A and then top blouse from brand C and necklace from brand D. Exactly, yeah. So then so but you are one of those brands in your department store. So is in some degree you're competing with your Yeah, you are. There's definitely a lot of competition and you know, a lot of times our buyers that we work with at the stores, their other vendors that they have are our competition. So we're always wondering, you know, what else is out there or, you know, what else are they buying? What was their color palette for the season? What worked there? But that's why within my job, we also do a lot of like comp shopping, right? We do store visits. Comp shopping means a comparable comparable, competitive shopping competitive shopping. Okay, gotcha. So we're always I do a lot of store visits, which means traveling, which is something that I mean, when I was in college I didn't realize you could travel for work really. Like I didn't know that that is such an opportunity. It's been so great for me. You get to see new places, you get to explore. You travel where? New York City? Every I mean, yeah, New York. I mean, I've gotten a lot of times think like, you know, major cities. you know, there's New York Miami and, you know, Chicago and LA and I Texas. But then I mean, I have gone abroad, which is amazing. That is Like bucket list, you know, again, I never thought you could go international for work. That is very cool and exciting to be able to do. And then you get, you know, inspiration from that. You're meeting, you know, other people, other countries. My company has like subsidiaries. So that is like basically there's a version of me for the European market. I see. There's a version of me for the, you know, Asia market. And I get to meet those people. And they're doing, you know, exactly what I'm doing, but so different because it's a different customer. It's a different country, you know? It's just a totally kind of different factors that they have going on. Even if it's the same brand, what you're saying is the the products are different for Yeah, it can be. Because also think, you know, here in the US, we always talk and something we always do is like, you know, it's not the same temperature that it is today in New York than it is in California or Florida or Arizona, like even, you know, I mean you think about Texas, they, you know, it doesn't really get that cold down there. So when it comes to, you know, your fall winter collection or, you know, your assortment, you're not gonna give them this heavy, huge puffer coat because no one's buying that. It doesn't make sense. It could be a beautiful item and it's going to be in a store like New York or Chicago, for instance, but you would never put that down there. So you always have to think too, you know, when you're working with The department stores, yes, you're curating, you know, their selection, but no two stores, like the store in Miami versus the store in Dallas, they're gonna have different stuff. Same, you know, they have your same core basic day in, day out bestsellers that always need to be there. But then there's also other pieces that layers that kind of help add to and help again those like micro demographics within the US. So you gotta know every Like i the customer behavior and consumer behavior in every different city. Yeah, and we and then the different values. But still you have your own brand cluster. Of course. And that's why we, you know, we cluster it. There's like, you know, hot doors and cold doors and then, you know, like metropolitan cities and, you know, again, there's different clusters 'cause you don't have to be, you know, the expert and all that. But then that's with store visits, going to be able to actually see those stores and just understanding like we always walk around the mall, right? Yeah. Who's shopping on a Tuesday at two o'clock? Who's there? Like wondering, you know, who's buying it? Helping sell. I've, you know, been helping merchandise a section and, you know, I've sold so much and you learn so much, the customer is, you know, the customer is the one who's buying the product and, you know, making our sales. So we need their feedback. So senior account executive means Account means you're dealing with certain retail buyers. Right. So you are working with retail buyers and you are responsible to provide the merchandise assortment of your brand to a certain retailers. And you're the main salesperson to the retail. Yep. So we basically what we call it wholesale sales. Right. It is wholesale, yeah. But we somehow account executive, but you're senior at this level. So how'd you start this? Like how'd you how can one become an account, s senior account executive? I mean, to be honest, when I first started, I was what was called a brand manager at a small fashion company. I was doing a luxury company. Yeah. The the European Yeah, yeah. It was. but I was doing it was called a brand manager and I was doing trade shows. So I was doing I was going down to, you know, Magic in Vegas. I was going to Chicago Collective. We were doing All sorts of trade shows. I did store visits. So I traveled a lot and gave product knowledge seminars. Meaning you know, before the store opens, you gather the sales associates, you know, for twenty minutes and give them a little rundown on okay, here is this brand, here's, you know, here's how to style, here's how like our denim fits, here's how to read the product tags, here's certain, you know, things size up, don't size up, you know, collections, how to kind of style up and how to sell up also, like, you know. Don't forget we have, you know, shoes here too. Like bring them over there. You know, just basically reminding the sales associates and making sure that we're like top of mind. Okay. and I would also do that. We did a lot of like selling Saturdays for boutiques. So I would work with a lot of specialty stores. Think like your mom and pop, your like independent store. Boutique store. And that was again, you know, I think a boutique store versus a department store. A department store has these big budgets and big marketing and you know, they're Everyone knows them and you know, they have so much and they're very focused on their plans and all this, whereas the independence store, the person who's coming in to buy the product is, you know, the owner, the social media strategy, the you know, accountant, the player, they're they're one half it's all. They do everything and their, you know, heart and soul is invested in that. So it was really cool to be able to work with both because I kind of got an opportunity to see like, you know, which one do I like? I liked the department stores more because it was a little more analytical in that way. You're using because they have the sales data, right? They have systems from all of their stores that pull like we know what sold that week and you know, what's working. And so being able for me, I liked that you were able to take that data every week, those sales and say, Okay, here's what's working, here's what's not working, or here by category, you know, these two category means. Yeah. Category means t-shirt, polo, sweatshirt, sweatpants, you know. Yeah. but and you can even go even further within a category, right? Like sizing, yes, and color. Sizing, and then even think like, you know, t-shirts. is it solid, embellished, patterned? Like people, you know, again, it's very dependent, but you can get very granular in terms of your data to then help make decisions for the next market, right? Like we always want to. continue to try things. And I think in my first job it was hearing, because I was a brand manager working with, you know, the senior account executives, just helping with the models and a market appointment or, you know, getting catering or, you know, making sure that, you know, the showroom looked good at the end of the day, helping enter orders. Like I was doing all of that. but I really loved those, like when the department stores came in and would spend, you know, Three, four hours in our showroom or you know, they would just talk about like they'd get to, you know, they sort by month and they do everything. I loved that. And I was like, That's what I want to do. So basically, you're in so most people understand salespeople in the store. Like when we go to store, department store, somebody come and help me, you know, pick out and check out. Yep. You're also doing sales, but your customer is not a consumer. Your customer is a retailer. buyers. Yeah. Whether it's a small independent boutique store buyer or a large department store like a Northstrom buyer. Yep. But you trying to sell your branded product to this buyer. So that's why we call it wholesaler. Yeah. So exactly. So so sales is sale. Yeah. Sales are sales. And at the end of the day from, you know, when I started almost ten years ago. I can't believe it is crazy. To now the goal is just to make sales. We wanna, you know, I'm in sales. You want to make money and we always wanna be what we did last year. We have internal company numbers that we wanna hit. Yeah. Whether that be, you know, higher than last year plus X amount, or you know, there's always reasons why. And every month, you know, it it ebbs and flows. There's also external factors in the world we live in today that are out of our control, but What I try to focus on is what I can control. And what I can control is the product that they're selecting. Okay. Based on the buyers. Yep. What the buyers are picking and ensuring that, you know, we've done everything when they come to market and, you know, when we're doing all of our stuff, that we're working together to make sure it's going to be the best for their customer. And that's that. So market means there is a certain time period. Time period in the year. Mm-hmm. The buyers come to New York City. Mm-hmm. And hit all kinds of different brands' showroom, including yours. Yep. And then you're trying to make sure that your buyers pick the best, you know, best assorted products and the best amount of dollars. So that you get better by selling more, but the buyers get better because their retailers are selling better product consumers. And the more that they sell, let's say they had a really good season our budget, so the amount that they're allowed to buy for next year. Well, hopefully it goes up, right? Or maybe, you know, we used to have this much s floor space, now we're getting this much and we're growing and we're growing. And that's right. Yeah, like I mean, online is a huge factor now. We I work with retailers that are only online. So it's totally different than, you know, having a physical store and that customer is different, but you get to try different things, right? Like what works in online in that online shopper is a little different than that in Can you give us a little bit more ex example for that? Yeah, so I mean, online, like online retailers that are only online people nowadays, you you're scrolling your phone, you're scrolling your phone and you know, I work specifically in men's. A lot of guys, if they, you know, find a shirt that they like and they buy it and it fits okay, there's six colors available. I'm buying all six, you know? The color multipliers online are a big thing. You know making sure you have, you know, the right colors, but you have enough of it. And then also there's always You know, we're working with their marketing team and the e-commerce team or, you know, like site operations where it's like, okay, how can different tools be optimized that's, you know, below like shop the look or you know, there's things that now you can put videos online, right? Like we're working if somebody's interested in shirt, mm-hmm. Now suddenly you want to put additional item under this. Yeah, exactly. So that the guys because you're in menswear. Yeah. So then the guys will sell like other coordinating items like pants or shirts. Exactly. Whatever hats or also, recently I just said this we're adding like video content to a lot of our styles with one of our retailers online because they say the conversion, like if a product online has a video, it's like a twenty something percent conversion rate without than without a video. So if someone sees it on a bottle reading, yeah, like a 360, they're more likely to buy it because they know how it lays and how it fits. Because online, you can't touch and feel it. You know, you have to kind of give them that vision and that whether that be through features and benefits of like the bullet points, this is this runs small, size up. It's all those little things that, you know, when you're shopping, you see it. Sometimes you read it, sometimes you don't. Because I work in it, I'm like, and you know, I'm noticing all these things way more. So what's your total budget annually? How much sales are you responsible for roughly? I'm responsible for about like twenty million. Are you like, how do you feel about that? Good. It's it's not my money. I think sometimes in sales specifically, because a lot of times when we're working with like thousands and millions and you know, you have You're not looking at the zero, zero, zero, zero. You're just looking at like, you know, two point four. Yeah. so I think sometimes you do forget how much it actually is in reality. And but it's fun. So you just said about ten years ago you graduated Mizzou TAM, Textile and Apparel Management in twenty seventeen. Yeah. So this is your nine years, nine ninth year. Yeah. Wow. So throughout that journey, so you started as a brand manager and then you kind of grew like a junior account executive, senior account executive. Now you're in a bigger company. Yep. And it might you might have a same title but your responsibility is bigger. Correct. Because you're working for a bigger company and bigger dollars. Exactly. So you have a ki you manage all kinds of different like menswear, luxury, right? Okay. That's that that's that's great. So when have you ever like regr like have you ever th wonder like What what if I was in different industry? Like, did you always like this? What was this last ten years, nine years journey like? I took a fashion class in high school. My high school had like a fashion merchandising type class and I loved it. I was like, I love to shop. I love this. Like you can, you know, again work with them and but the interesting thing is I always thought I was like, I'm gonna be a buyer. Cause I think again, when I was in college, I didn't know, as you said, that All these jobs exist. I just you hear the word and a lot of I feel like a lot of people that I know. That's all. You go into those two sections and I was like, I want to be a buyer. And when I was in college, I did intern in a buying department and I really liked it. But that's when I learned there's the other side of buying. That's right. Which is the wholesale side. Wholesale side. Yeah. The executive. Yeah. The account manager, the account executive. Would you like that better? Like a I like it because you get to be an expert in the brand. Like you pretty much, you know, you you own that brand in your own way, and you're kind of like, you know everything about that. That brand. Yeah. It's the company that exactly. The company you work for. You can be like, I, you know, I work for this brand, I do this, and I'm proud of like that. Whereas when you're a buyer, I mean it's amazing, but you're working with a lot of different brands, and that honestly now sounds more overwhelming to me. I kinda like being an expert in, you know, one thing, like being an expert for that brand, they can come to me for those things and I wear that hat now. That makes sense. Like for example, like if you're on the brand side, right? So let's say I'm on I don't know, Tommy Hilfiger. So then I'm on I know everything about Hilfiger brand from from the jeans, the pants, the hats and whatever. And I represent that brand to all kinds of different buyers. It could be Nordstrom retailer, Macy's retailer, Dillard's retailer. Exactly. But if you're a buyer, so let's say if you are a buyer of jeans section of the the department store, then I may have a twenty different brands. yeah. It's crazy. And that's why I think so then especially could be overwhelming. Okay. Especially as, you know More companies have gone through, you know, different restructures or phases or people are kind of doing a lot more now. Yeah. I feel like buyers have taken on even more brands or they're getting added like an extra department or it's just throw this in. And so to be that expert and to be somebody that they can trust, they can also say, you know, they can feel good in what I'm presenting to them. Right. They know that, you know, it just takes a little bit of stress off them as well to say, hey, like, I'm the expert in this. I we know your customer. We know it works for you. This is what we're presenting. And hopefully, you know, they say, yes, I agree. Of course, there's always, you know, and they're entitled to have their own opinions on how they feel about things, but it's just giving that level of trust that, you know, my brand and who I work for, like we also, you know, know what we're doing. That makes sense. Yeah. So so did you've have you had this moment of like, Wow, I think I've made it. by the way, you said you had a fashion class in high school. Yeah. Where are you from? Are you from New York? No, I am from Plymouth, Minnesota. Minnesota. Right, that's right. It fun. Midwest all the way. But So you just can did you even imagine living in New York and you're gonna buy it. Yeah, I I was lucky enough I did the Fashion Scholarship Fund program. And with that scholarship money, I was able to Come to New York and intern for a summer. Yeah. So I loved that. But even before that, I always told my parents, I said, I'm moving to New York with without a job after college. They said, Mm, you need a job. And I said, No, in fashion, like you need to be there, right? Because things move so quick. They somebody leaves or something happens to someone. That position's open. They need somebody and they want them, you know, two weeks. Tomorrow. Correct. It's can you start tomorrow? Like the you know, the move is quick just because there's so much going on and so much changing. And I was really lucky that graduated college on it was like a Friday. I got a call on Saturday. I got a job offer. And then two weeks later moved to New York and then a week later started my job. And I've been here ever since. So it's crazy. So so that's been what, nine years? Yeah. When did you feel like wow, I think I made it. I made it. I like I I've like almost like my vision for myself kind of came true. I can't believe it, but I'm here. Did you have that kind of feel? Yeah, I do. I feel like when kind of after that like that one year mark, the first year is, you know, even though I had interned here and I'd been to New York so many times, it living and actually being here is, you know, a different it's different. It's a little humbling. It's It's not for everybody. There's a lot going on. You know, you have to get used to, you know, just the subway and just the changes, the small apartments, you know, having to share spaces with people. And, you know, you can't a lot of people don't have the luxury of just moving into a one bedroom by themselves. You know, it's you don't have that. So I think at first it's a and, you know, you're coming off of, you know, college. I didn't have a lot of friends that moved here right away. I had because they were also, you know. looking and applying or maybe they chose to, you know, travel for a little bit after school or take some time off, you know, before they found it. So I feel like that first year you kind of get your footing, kind of understanding everything. And then after that first year it was kind of like, okay, you know, you can get through it. You make a few mistakes, you take like a wrong subway ride and then you're like, okay, I got this. I got this, right? That's good. So looking back now that like what I think if if you can say there's one thing that you learned in college, they still with you. Like it still helps you today. I think something I think about a lot is like group projects and working with other people because in no one nobody trust me, nobody likes group projects. No, nobody likes them, but in the real world you work with people of all different personalities and people that maybe, you know, you love and others that you maybe don't love so much personally, but when it comes to work. you have to work with them. And so how can you kind of like egos aside and move all of that to get the job done? Right. Or I think also, you know, those personalities, you're working with people in the real world. Some people are maybe higher up than you. Some people could be lower than you, but it's setting that even level, right? Because, you know, if you're in, for example, at my company, we work with a lot of different teams. I work with operations and logistics and Planning and all these different teams where I'm not an expert in those things. But we have to work together because there's something that I you know, like logistics and operations, I need my product to be here in order for it to get to the store to sell, right? So just working with all of them and kind of finding your groove within that, I think that can relate a lot. And it's always just to never, you know, be nice to everybody because you just never know what could come back. So if you were If you would ask yourself, like if you can send a t one text message to your college self today, like we if you you know, back to when you are a college student today, what would you say now that you know what you know now today? I mean, I'd probably say I think it's important to stay true to who you are and be yourself. I think in fashion, especially, a lot of times when you're interviewing or like when I was first interviewing, you know, it's really You get nervous or you're like, Am I fit for this? Can I do this? But, you know, the company is hiring you or, you know, they want you for you. And you want to be authentically yourself. You can't, you know, put on a persona or something. And then, you know, let's say you get a job and then you're stuck to that and then you're not being who you are, right? Like you should always just be your authentic self. People, I think, will probably end up, you know, they'll they'll like you more, they'll appreciate you more. You'll be you'll be more comfortable, you'll be more open to maybe, you know. Asking for, you know, promotions or asking for different opportunities and doing things if you like truly stay true to who you are. Yeah. That's a great answer, question answer. In addition to that, what would what kind of skills or knowledge that the current student should you know start developing if they wanna be inch if they are interested in a role like yours? Yeah. Like a brand wholesale. In my senior year, I took that the Excel course. That's a great one. It's the advanced retail analytics. It you have to take it. So it's good. It's great. So it's really it it gives you a lot of numbers and then they tell you analyze this numbers and using this Excel tool to decide whether you're gonna mark down, whether you're gonna close out. I use Excel every single day and look, I am no math expert by any means. I Okay. Can you tell me that do you have to be a math expert to be what you're You need to know the formulas, or I should even say you need to know the tools and the concepts in Excel, how to use them to benefit you. Because you're not doing AP calculus and all this stuff without a, you know, calculator. Excel is a giant calculator, you know. It can do so much for you. And even like the Excel course, I remember honestly, it it's not an easy course in any way. It can be really overwhelming because it's such a new item or like a new tool, but I use it every day now and I'm still learning. Like I don't really think anyone's a true expert in Excel. Maybe the teacher, but like there's so many new things that even I learn every day on Excel and that my coordinator teaches me, right? Like people even, you know, my boss is showing me or you know, I'm learning from might know not know how to do something. I'm just, you know, Googling and figuring it out as you go. But I think having that foundation and those those key foundational tools is really important, especially in sales because you're looking up, you know, you're looking at all of, you know, your data and you're comparing your sales this year to last year, you know, your last week to your last season and all that different stuff. That sounds good. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give looking at you on my little note. Okay. So so by the way, you did say so my question was like where did you find how did you find fashion? Yeah. In your life, but you took a class in high school. Yeah, I took a class in high school. And I mean I loved I loved shopping. Who you know, I loved going to the mall with my friends in high school and, you know, picking out like different outfits and stuff. I mean, I loved doing all of that. I think it was really fun. I never knew you could have a career in it, honestly. And, you know, it's now that I'm in I work predominantly in menswear, which, you know, I actually like even more because, you know, it's just kind of like taking my own. personal choices aside, because I do think sometimes in wholesale, right? You have to think about the customer. Yes. What does the customer need? What do they like? Because I was in women's for a short time and sometimes it can be hard to differentiate like, I personally love this. I like this. But does, you know, a Nordstrom 45 year old woman want to wear this? Like you have to put your shoe, you know, you in the eyes of that. And so I actually find in menswear it's a little easier for me. Personally, 'cause I can separate it. Which I like. So are you saying like so if I'm a fifteen year old? Yeah. you know, whoever, you know, men and women don't matter what gender it is, but I like going out like I like going to small, I'm gonna like looking at the store, like I like the lady styles, I like picking out stuff. My friends always ask me what should I wear and stuff like that. Yeah. That kind of people would be good at this role. Potentially, yeah. I think Just understanding, you know, assortments, like what what looks good together, what goes together. And that's you know, that's not a styling because they're stylists. It's not it's not cr you know, curating a look. It's how does a rail in a store, you know, just even like how's that gonna look? How are the colors gonna flow? Ensuring that, you know, there's enough T shirts that are different that give the customer reason to buy, right? Like if you have two T shirts that kinda look almost the same. Yeah. Sitting right next to each other, that's gonna hurt the sales on both that shirt. They all you know, they need to have a purpose within the assortment or you know, within that collection. Okay. So then having said that, let me s look at that. So what was the biggest surprise when you tr transitioned from college to real world? Surprise? I think I mean, I think it's so different in the fact that you're creating your own schedule, right? Like In college it was, okay, I had this class, yeah, this class and that class, and then you're done. And then you kind of do your homework and you're done. Whereas like in the real world, there's you know, at work, there's projects or you know, there's for example, in like you said, we go to market when, you know, the buyers come in, there's like cycles. So understanding like kind of your workload and your s how busy you are during certain times of the year takes some time to kind of figure that out. But the timeline is it's so different. Right. And you're not, you know, you're not a student anymore. You're not like studying. You're working. And you're working like a, you know, a nine to six or you know, you're when you're traveling, yeah. That kind of gets blurred a little too, because you could be flying in the morning, you're in the visit, then you have, you know, like a client dinner. You're working way more than eight hours. You're like, whoa, what's going on? So you have to find that balance. And it's I mean, I'm not perfect I don't have the answer, but I'm still I you know, I'm still working on it. But like That is a big difference, I would say, that, you know, you definitely have to like realize right away. That's a good point. Yeah. I mean, I do that I still do that. I'm fifty four years old. I still have to do that. so what do the students should pay attention to the future for their future right now? Like especially whether it's in your industry or not. I mean nobody we don't you know, there's so much yeah, there's so much unknown and I feel like we're changing now faster than ever. I mean In terms of AI, I didn't have that when I was in college. I don't I didn't know what it was. You know, we're using it in ways and work. I think embracing the change, you have to be adaptable in any way, right? Like I feel like even, you know, my current business and my current role, you know, we're ever changing. You know, sales can be up and down, or you know, when they're not so good, it's okay, what are we doing to change this? And just being open to it, right? Because you can get used to a certain way, or you know, you can get used to a certain process or you know you like the way that you did this something and then a new thing comes along and you just kinda have to change all over Exactly. I think you really have to be open and adaptable to that. Right. Always easier said than done. Right. But just being yeah, definitely being adaptable. Sounds good. Yeah. So now I came up with a really fun thing, what I call it rapid fire. Okay. So I'll just give you a boom boom boom. Okay. Let's just answer it first and then we're gonna go for it. So for it. What class should everyone take if they are in college? the Excel class. Excel class. Okay. One thing that everyone should have in their resume. Experience of any kind. Any kind. Like it doesn't matter fashion. No, I just I mean, if you want to go into fashion, it should be more fashion, but it could be a retail, like a selling job. It could be an internship. Like any type of just experience to show that you're putting yourself out. So you were just did more than the going to class. Exactly. So you might have a good GPA and you've been a good student, but you gotta have something more. Exactly. Okay. What is one thing that they shouldn't have on their resume? Shouldn't have, I mean, as I think it it needs to pertain to what they what the role that they're applying for, what they want to do, right? yes. If it's, you know, you I don't mm you worked on a I mean, I don't know. like you took a year off to go surfing in, you know, Puerto Rico or something, but you want a a nine to six desk job. It's that that it doesn't quite make sense, right? Now if you're looking for a creative role, that might be a good that might be great, right? Yeah. It's kind of I would say like knowing your audience. Yes. Yeah. Because there's not like nothing. It just maybe needs to be tailored that to that job. Sounds good. Yeah. That makes sense. All right. What's one thing everyone should stop worrying about? Everyone in college. Stop worrying. Stop worrying about the future. Because it all works out. really? Yeah. So instead of worrying, they should explore. Like the title of this podcast. Yeah, they should explore. I think You know, even I think going into my senior year, I was so worried, like I have to have an internship. I have to and you you're so worried and you really, you know, just do your resume, get the interviews, keep going, keep going. Like, and even if, you know, I mean, I had an internship, but let's say you don't get the one you like want, so to say, there's so many other things, and there's so many other things you can do. I think somebody having, you know, the fancy internship versus somebody being a sales associate for a summer, it it's not that big of a difference because you're learning so much at both that can apply to so many things. Right. You know, I've been saying to my capstone students all the time, it's like, if you want to go to New York, because that's what you think, I mean you are convinced that this is it, then just pack them up and go. You should. Yeah. And just survive two months. Exactly. And for two months your full time job will be looking for job. Correct. It is you will find something. Yeah. Right. So stop worrying about it. I think anyone that wants to live here, especially New York, come here and you know what? If you love it, you stay. Yeah. And if you don't like it, you can leave. And that's okay too. It's not there's nothing, you know. That's right. There's so many fashion jobs not in New York and in other places and with remote work now and possibilities are endless. I think, yeah, if you want to come here, you should and do it. But also like Stop worrying. You know, yeah. If it What if I don't, then go home. I do believe everything does happen for a reason. And in one way or another it does. I agree. Yeah. All right. What's one thing everyone should yes to? Everything. What's the one thing every everyone said no to? Nothing. Nothing. As long as it doesn't put you in danger. That's right. Do you like coffee or networking event? Coffee because it's a little more personable. Like having a one on one conversation with somebody and like getting to know them really well. I feel like you can make a little more of a connection. Networking is great to set up the coffee. Okay. So that the goal of no so we should all still go to networking. Of course, yes. And then set up the coffee. And then do the coffee after that. And then coffee becomes breakfast, lunch, whatever. You right? Yeah. All right. Internship or passion f project. I would say internship. Because I work in sales, I think it's more it's better to have more experience that you can talk to and relate to. Okay. I think now if you were in and that's relative. If you were like in design, maybe more passion because you can show your creativity and like what you're able to bring. Right. I I think it's a little different. But for me, I would say an internship. Got it. Yeah. So but any type of internship. Yeah. As long as there's some sort of a just experience. I think any type of experience, right? Like you know, you never wanna, you know, there's like a gap or a resonate, you're doing something. It's like it could be, you know, I also learned there's a lot of like temp work now too and stuff and a lot of like temp work is a temporary temporary time gap. And like two of the girls that I work with started out at my company as like temps and they've been there for Going on like seven years. It's like opportunities can come out of stuff. You just don't know. Started just nothing. You just don't know. So say yes to it all. Yeah. That sounds good. Yeah. so then what's your next? What's my next? I'm I'm not going anywhere for a while. I love New York. I love being here. I love the people. I love my job right now. Everything's really great. I'll still be here for a while. So What I'm sure the company is, but you know, is there any career aspirational goals? yeah, I think, you know, within the next few years, I'm a senior account executive. I would love to move up to, you know, a director. you know, certainly So the let's c talk about titles. So like brand manager and then you become a it's like junior account Yeah, like associate, junior account executive, then just like an account executive, then the senior. Director. Director means director will supervise a couple of you, several of you. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe multiple. It could be like a few different categories or it could be a few different men's wear and women's wear. Yeah, like shoes and I got ready to wear, for example, right. Or then maybe also like two different brands, right? Like if the company has sells like multiple kind of, you know, brands within, you could manage multiple of those. So after a director There'd be probably like some companies would have like a senior director, so someone who just a little more, and then it would be probably like a VP of like sales or wholesale. So at some point if become a VP of national wholesale, like national account. Yeah. Something like that. Exactly. That means everything this brand sells in the entire country and that's gonna be a Yeah, and that's more I would say like once you get up there, you're more it's more strategy, right? Like top level, here's You know, we need to sell in twenty million. How are we doing that? Through top level, this, this, this. Okay, trickle it down and do it. Sounds good. Yeah. So, so that sounds good. So it you know, we I learned a lot about what you're doing every day and your college experience transitioning. Is there anything else you want to talk to? Like suppose you're back in Mizzou and you're talking to TAM students right now. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanna give message to? I feel like I always will tell people, like, I feel like in college, a lot of like, especially when you're a senior, right? It's the interviewing. It's like trying to just, you know, it can be very stressful. And even you said finding a job is a full time job. It's not easy, especially when you're up and coming, you're graduating, you're thinking, my gosh, everyone else is also graduating. You know, there's so much going on, all this different stuff. I always say, to be pleasantly persistent. So that's, you know. having that interview and then, you know, a few hours later the next day following up with that thank you email. If you don't hear back in a few weeks, you know, give them time. But if it hasn't been two, three weeks and you haven't heard back, don't be afraid to email and ask because a lot of times when people are interviewing whether that BHR or, you know, even like when I've interviewed for coordinators and stuff, other things come up. It's not that they, you know, forgot about exactly didn't they may not have, you know, they may have loved you, but Life continues and, you know, something could have came up or they're in, you know, market appointments or they're traveling where they just, you know, things slip through. So it's important to be follow up, be persistent and follow up because they could then be like, my gosh, yes, like I then, you know, and you have to follow up with HR. You have to go through, you know, in some places, some interviews they may want you to, you know, interview with a cross functional team, right? Like, you know, there's so many different steps. I feel like sometimes you don't hear back right away or it's been a few weeks, you're like, They didn't like me or all this stuff. But it's like, no, th you know, things come up, right? Like things happen and it's not, you know, you. It could be and you know, the worst thing you do is thank you so much. Like we've gone with someone else, or you know, but like please keep in touch because you never know, also. That's right. And people move around. Exactly. Right. I think you can also something I've done is like you can apply for one job and that might not be a fit, but the company could like, but we have something else. Like when I first interviewed at my company, it was actually for an account executive with a like like a different side of the business. And they were like, actually you'll be better over here. Exactly. And I didn't even know. So it's, you know, just being open to it 'cause you know, you don't know. That's why you gotta say yes to everything. Exactly. Say no to nothing. Right. That sounds great. Yeah. All right. I think that was a great message. And I'm so proud of you. I I remember your y you know, at Mizzou, I take students to New York every year in May after semester's over, we have a week long industry tour. Yeah. And you're in that trip. Yeah. And you loved it. It I mean, it just shows you so much and being able to go to showrooms, right? Like I loved all of that. Like seeing all of that was how we like exactly. I can see myself being here. Yeah. I want to be coming at all. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you have to learn like inside the classroom and outside. I know. Yeah. And I'm so proud of you. I feel like that was yesterday, but y you're already been nine years out. I really and you're now a senior account executive for one of the biggest name luxury brands. And it's crazy. The capstone presentations feel like yesterday. I feel like it's going to Harpo's after that feels like not that long ago. I hope you guys still do that. so you know, we we started going to Heidelberg and Local Harp was so it's just so fun because you put I remember you put so much work into it and you're like you're so close to graduating and it's so exciting and everyone's there and it's like I remember that night. We had so much fun. I'll never forget that. I love it. Right. It's my favorite time. And yeah. so the rooftop of the Heidelberg is the I love that we we rent the whole not the whole place, the one section of the place. And all the students, graduating students, come out and we all have a chair for each other. We so do that. I love it. So thank you so much. Thank you for having And you're my first guest. Yes. And I learned a lot. And I also learned how to record this podcast thing. So let's see what happens. Me too. We ho I hope to talk to you again. Yes. we talk more about. Like I would love to know more about what your day, you know, day of of you know getting a company. Like Monday, what happens? Yeah. You know, Friday, what happens? There's so much to do. I mean, there's there's so much to talk about too. And never I would say too like No two days are alike in a way too, right? Like just so much is happening and comes up in I mean in fashion too. Think about where it's ever changing. So my job is ever changed, you know, things are evolving and moving. And that's why I love it. Never a dull day. I'm gonna ask one final question. What would you say to people that there are no jobs in fashion or fashion is not a good major choice? I would tell them that it's a multi billion dollar industry. And that just go to the local mall and you'd see, right? So every brand's clothing behind it, there's a ten thousand people behind it and getting it done. And even think, you know, you could say, okay, well, you know, who like who's doing the account for them, right? That's right. Who's doing, you know The finance for them, the planning, the you know, all that stuff. Sourcing, exactly. Engineering. Designing, exactly. Right. Think about like websites, like who's designing that website. That's right. It could be toothpaste or it could be a shirt. That's right. You know? All right. Thank you. That's why I thank you for having me. This was so fun.