Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Female Friendships

Transcript

Female Friendships · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hey tolerated this. This is to all the men I've tolerated before.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: With Navley Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: we have a new friend, haven't We had so many
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: new friends? It's great. Is Lindsay from the podcast Literally
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Books who Wear. Book lovers, pop culture enthusiasts and anyone
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: who wants new book festies can feel seen. Lindsay is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: here to talk to us about the impact misogyny has
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: on our female friendships. And I'm so excited we're finally
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: doing this topic. Thank you so much, Lindsay for making
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: dreams come true.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Wow, dreams coming true. I'm not prepared for this.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: On like a casual afternoon.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Someone cute the Lizzie McGuire. This is what dreams are
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: made of. Reference right now? Where is she with her
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: little cartoon? The way?
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: I almost like started singing that.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I have a really bound habit of nervous singing on
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: a microphone, but I won't for your persanity.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: That is the exact vibe of this podcast. So I
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: don't know why you would control yourself.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Pallid is the reason. That's an important prerequisite.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I often make up stupid little jingles for this podcast,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure people skipped right over them. They're like
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: non aatily singing again. Ah ah uh uh, we know
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: how can't fight the moonlight? Go stop?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I mean we can do that at the end of
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: this if you want, I'll happily for sure.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, make sure. Okay, having an actual professional conversation even
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: though I have PMD debree. Give the people what they want,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: which is a background on you and your podcast and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: why we picked this topic.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Oh my background. Okay, here's what I'm going to read.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Is it weird to read my own background, of my
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: own bio. I'm gonna do it because I don't have
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: any sense of myself. I have no sense of self
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: apart from the Internet tells me. So.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: My sense of self, as written by.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: The Internet is I'm a half human, half war text
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of Rustless Energy.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I live in Austin with a husband.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I apologize to the listeners of this podcast, and two
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: dogs who make up for the husband. And yeah, I
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: work in tech, but I also have a fun little
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: book podcast where we read everything and anything trash classics
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and like the next book or prize winner.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: We love it all.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love it. Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Sorry to anyone who listens to the podcast who are
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: also people with spouses, even though I told you not
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: to and the vord text, I very much feel that,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: like I am a person, but I'm also just like
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: an entity that's floating around. That's how.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: It's a massive energy, that's like, that's science.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: That's science. I'm just a lady whose nephew likes to
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: throw things at her. That's who I am. I get
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: no respect from anyone, including doddlers. Okay, we wanted to
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: talk about how our friendships change when the women in
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: our lives entered serious relationships or not so serious relationships. Honestly,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: do you want to start or do you want me
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to start?
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I want you to start.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, So my current pet peeve on how heteroonormative marriages
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: affect my friendships is or relationships not just marriages. Is
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: people find it so hard and my people, I mean
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: women find it so hard to tell men know and
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to like disappoint the men in their lives, especially when
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: that man is like the person they wake up to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: every day that as a single woman who has a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: variety of friendships, I am always being canceled on because
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, well he wanted to. It's like, who is he?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: You know? What do you mean? I bought tickets to this?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And they're like yeah. But then also like he really
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: he just really wanted to. And I was like, then
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: you tell him. Also make a friend. That's how I feel.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, also make a friend one friend.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, external friendships are key, Yes in any kind of relationship.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I know, and I think that like the women in
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: my life who are in relationships, they too, go damn it.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Once again, I'm gonna have to prioritize him. And I
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: just I wish that more men have the emotional depth
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to have friendships. And if you don't have the emotional
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: depth to have friendships that are strong as strong as
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: female friendships, then at least have them depth to respect
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: our friendships and back the fuck off.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I okay, So I will tell you I am on
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: both sides of this, because I am the friend, I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: am married.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: I am the friend who is worried that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I need to include the feelings of my partner when
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I'm considering what I'm doing, and some of that I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: think is just like you kind of got to a little.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Bit navigate them. But then on the other side of it.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I'm also like, I don't fucking need you, and I'm
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: gonna remind you by leaving you off on your own
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: all the time. And I think you know, life's about balance.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I have a really fantastic brother in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: law who does feed me dinner a lot of the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: time because other people won't. And I was talking to
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: my sister about it. I was like, could you imagine
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: if you had married a man who truly could not
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: fathom why your sister would be at your house every day?
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: And she's like, no, And I think he knows that, I,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: you know, bring violence upon our home if you try
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to be like you're again like a woman in your
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: life is coming over again. Like and and we do
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: consider my brother in law or a lot of things,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: like my sister and I will go so you're.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Gonna say you consider him a woman, and that's that's
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: a great strategy, just consider him a woman.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: And I didn't just do.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: That, no, but we do. Like if if I want
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to ask my sister to a movie, I try to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: make it a scary movie or like something like The
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Materialist where he won't feel left out, especially now that
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: they have kids and their time out is so precious.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, if they can't get a babysitter for
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: all three of us to see Jurassic Park, I will
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: just see Jurassic Park by myself, as an independent person
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: who can do that on free Popcorn Day, and then
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: we'll all watch it watch it together on HBO Max
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: like we did Sinners.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, So here is you're kind of alluding to this,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and this is gonna be like my advice for people
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: in relationships, which is like do what men do and
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: weaponize incompetence, like I have forced my husband to deepen
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: his male friendships because when he's tried to take me
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to things that I don't care about, like sporting events
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: or like live music of people that I don't care about,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I don't like live music.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I know that's like really unpopular, but.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I just like ask annoying questions and complain and am
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: intolerable the entire time, so that next time he's like,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I don't want to fucking bring her like she should be.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: It should be someone else.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: But do you know what's so wild is I think
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: that we're conditioned to believe that they're supposed to complain
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: about our hobbies, but still sit there next to us
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: for some reason. And it's like when people were posting
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: tiktoks of bringing their boyfriends to the Eras tour and
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: those boyfriends were behaving fine, but I was still like
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: so mad because I was like, that ticket could have
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: gone to your best friend who literally has the entire
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Fearless album tattooed on her back, Like what are why?
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Why would he be taking up a seat, And like,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I'm consent. Men don't go to Sabrina Carpenter concerts and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: people have told me I'm wrong. They're like Manley, like
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: dads sometimes take their daughters. I was like, that's wild
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to Sabrina Carpenter. But yeah, I'm like, Sabrina Carpenter isn't
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: for the boys, why would they be there. I understand
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: that that one guy from SNL went for a bit,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: but why would anyone else be there?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I agree? I agree one thousand percent. I think the
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: other thing is too, like you have to if you're
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: a person who has bad familial relationships, like I do
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: your friends become your family?
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: And so again done the weaponizing competence.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Rain. I'm like, you don't want a whole all this
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: emotional space for me, like, don't you want to spread
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: it about a little bit? You know?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Well, And I also remember that you and I maybe
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: share not a great trait, which is I feel not
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: owed because that's ichy and I've been to too much
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: therapy for that. But I feel like my time is
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: better than him. So I believe that you that when
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: he is in the room, you should still just be
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: paying attention to me because you he's you, and we
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: get a little like we get a little jealousy, a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: little bit of a oh he's here, Oh okay, all right,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Oh you're going to talk to him.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: That's something it's known superiority.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: It's not jealousy, it's verifiable betterness.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: That's what I like to tell myself.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love that, but we do we are just like,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: so he's gonna not only be here, but you're gonna
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: talk to him and cut up his food for him
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: when we could be doing more rounds of karaoke. Okay.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Do you have friends that they do that kind of
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: thing that are like meat cutters acts of service kinds
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: of partners.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I use meat cutters as a metaphor because I do
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: have friends who unfortunately married and or entered relationships with
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: men who have the emotional maturity of your average sixth grader.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. So they require a lot of like you're
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: so cool and everything you love is so cool and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I would never consider doing that without you, and of
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: course you get to come even though none of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: other boys are coming, and like or they I had
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: a friend who was in a relationship and he just
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: showed up. We were at drags, that's yeah, And I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: was like did you And she was like no, and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, we talk about that later. Later,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: we talk about that together. No, Okay, I would have
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: talked about it if they were still.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I I do think that's like there's this weird we're
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: in this weird time too, where like men feel that
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: they are quite evolved, more evolved than they actually are,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: where they're like, I'm here for the girls. I can
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: totally be supportive, but then they still require like a
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: lot of the emotional energy and I hate it. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: want to be like, it's it's your there's I know.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I don't care how evolved you are.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: They've just memorized a lot of things that they heard
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: on TikTok and they're like and and they're like, well,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't directly vote for your body autonomy to be
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: uh ripped away, so I'm cool, right, And it's like, no,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: just because you vote cool doesn't mean that I actually
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: want to hate out with you. Just a public service announcement, yes,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: but yeah, these overly evolved guys who are just like
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: one time I was watching promising young women with a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: couple that our friendship kind of just dissolved, and they
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: were like a married, established couple when I entered a
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: friendship with them, and I was watching pretty young women
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and I was like, this will go fine because they're
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: also like intelligent people that you can have a conversation with.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And the first thing he said is, now, do we
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: think it's very evolved or right to make it out
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: like every man is out to date rape a drunk woman?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And I was like, the point is is that's how
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to feel, whether or not it's true. That
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: is what I have to hold in my head. And
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: also the men who were taking her home while she
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: was pretending to be drunk to gotcha them in case
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: you haven't seeing the movie, were in fact going to
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: have sex with her despite the fact that she was
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: black blacked out. So I'm like, also, yeah, those men
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: are bad. Justin law not a great guy in the movie.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Like, No, there's a few instances of this in pop culture.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I think Lena Dunham does this really well in Girls.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I think Promising Young Women does a really good job
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: of this, like investigating the nice guy persona and like
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: what that really means, And it's like learned feminism, but
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: like not nuanced understanding of that feminism that's been learned,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and like yeah.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because what I've noticed about the evolved feminist man
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: is that one of their toxic traits is that when
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: they are presented with the group of women and one
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: of one or more usually all of those women is
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: wittier or you know, more clever, doing better at tree,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: be a better bowler. If they're still not superior in
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: some way, they spend a lot of time just like
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: digging at the fact that they feel insecure and wanting
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you to know that they should still be the focal
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: point and the better person at whatever is going on.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And I don't have the tolerance for that anymore. So
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I literally, well, I used to be like why are
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you pouting? And then when that just made them him
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about one person, when that would you.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Have an image in your mind right now, right in
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: this very moment, And.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: When when that would just like make him scream? Because
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: he did scream at me often in like a very
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: like you know how kids scream at you mid tantum
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: where it's like eh, it was in that tone a lot.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: So finally I just got to the point and I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: was like, well, my coping mechanism with the fact that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: he's here, despite the fact that no one wants him
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to be, is that I'm going to pretend he's a
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: ghost and I can't actually see and or hear him.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: He's your ghost, You're in charge of him, and I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: actually can't perceive him. Isn't that funny?
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: That's brilliant. That's a brilliant approach.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it drives them more crazy, but they have
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: no reason to screen at now.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine this is a crazy scenario that you're describing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I like, I'm in the I'm bless of old than
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: you and that I like have a deep well of
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: rage that I often like to tap into just to
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: like instill fear of those around me. And so I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: would have chosen a lot more violence than you did,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: but a ghost is a much nicer, healthier approach.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: See, I'm so glad that you say that it's healthy.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I think that that's the most diabolical thing that you
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: can do. And I think it's because, like my deep
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: poor wound and my actual greatest spear, I tell people
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that my greatest fear is to die before all of
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the to be read books on my to be read
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: list on Goodreads is completed. And of course I will,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: because there will always be books, of course, yes, But
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: what I actually am so worried about is not being
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: ignorable but almost being like insignificant to the thing that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I am taking part in. So to make them insignificant
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: is literally the cruelest thing that I could do to them,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So it is still me being purely evil.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Wow, you've made such a strong connection to me about
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: like how you channel your anger? Wowow wow Wow.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Do we metaphorically hold hands like you?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Just like really you took me to therapy. I love
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: it so much because like mine is to be misunderstood,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: which is why I'm like a yeller and over communicator
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: and like anger person, you know, which is why Yeah,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I just feel like this is where your partners get nuanced,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that your partner's partners do not necessarily they're going to
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: like accept that part of you in a way that
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: your partner's partner is not going to care, right, I
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I like that you called your friend's part your friends
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: fill your partner. You are like my partner who also
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: has a partner.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was totally subconscious. That was totally subconscious.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think, okay. So that also brings up
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: another like the depth of people who identify as female
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: or feminine friendships, because there are a lot of friendships
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that end up more feminine and have more feminine traits
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: than masculine, even if that person is non binary or
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: some part of the sexuality spectrum or whatever is. I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: don't think, And I blame the fact that Hollywood refuses
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to make movies like now and then in the Year
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of Our Lord twenty twenty five. And I'm actually really
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: mad at myself because I don't have any ideas on
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: what I would write as a tween girl movie, but
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I desperately want there to between girl movies so these
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: girls are prepared correctly for the world. Is that truly
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: in my life, I have understood it to be that
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: even though we all lived in a more modern world,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: we as women still wanted to gather together and gather
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: our children together and do that all together, while the
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: men did other things that we had no business knowing completely.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So there are actual partners.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: They are I think that I'm wrapping my head around
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: this thought right now, but I fully am a person
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: who believes that, like romantic relationships are important. But again,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: if you particularly if you don't have like a strong
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: familial structure. I talk to my partner about this all
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the time because I'm like far overinvested in my friends
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: in probably like an unhealthy way. But I think like
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: in those moments when you don't have like another community
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: structure to bolster you, like you really start leading on
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: those friendships, and like a female friendship in particular, because
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: it's so often bonding through like shared perspective and like
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: emotional wavelength and not shared experience. Like it's more important
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: to me objectively than my romantic relationships because ninety percent
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: of what I need, ninety five percent of what I
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: need to survive, I can get from my friendships, and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: like a sexual part I can probably just like supplement
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: some other way. So like just the maths, he's like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: less important. I like love my partner very much, but
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: he's replaceable for most of what I need for, like,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: you know, emotional support.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you tell him that often
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like a I think I'm like a terrible partner
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: and I've set the bar so low that anytime he
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: gets like a bread I'm a bread crumber.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I am the toxic bread crumbing partner. Yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well proud of you.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Thanks, thanks, Thanks.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: All I could ever want.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, Yes, that is correct. Anything that
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I've ever had that good in my life or healthy
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: in my life or made me feel butterflies or anything
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: was all coming from my female friendships, which is probably
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: my first indicator that I was a little bit more
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: queer than I was giving myself credit for. So there's that.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's just that one time I was
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: sick and I've told this podcast this on the podcast before,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: but one time I had the horrific flu and I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: was living by myself, and I was like, oh my god,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: people dehydrate and die when they have the flu by themselves.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: But like you know, when you're just so sick and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you're overstimulated that you can't look at the apps on
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: your phone because they have buttons and lights and you
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: have to make a decision. So I like texted the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: man that I was sleeping with, and I was like,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: should I pay thirty five dollars to have smoothie King
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: delivered to me? That feels like a lot, And he's like,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: that is a lot, but you are so sick, and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I was like, you, motherfucker, you've been inside me. But
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: he wanted to make a point that he wasn't my
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: husband or my boyfriend. He actually had no responsibility to me,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: so it was ridiculous for him to be kind to
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: me because I was sick, so he blew me off.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But that night, without asking, my friend got off of
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: like a fourteen hour nanny shift, went to the grocery store,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: broke into my house with the key that she had
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: when she would I think, honestly, I think I just
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: handed out keys like they were candy, Like you can
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: watch my cat, you can have a key, whatever what
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: She fully texted me, I'm coming in in about an hour.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: You don't have to look at me. Keep sleeping, I'm
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: going to make sure that Penelope is fed, who is
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: my cat? And I didn't get it because I was
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: asleep in the fugue state. And I woke up the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: next morning and I had flowers and every type of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: drink that you want to have when you're sick, gatorade,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: bottled water, sprite. I had soft, chewable easy foods for
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: my tummy in my fridge on the counters in my cabinets.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Like I was like, oh my god, do I And
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: she's like, no, you were sick. And and I think
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: one time I had went she was really sick and
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: couldn't do like the chores that she had to do
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: for her nanny job or whatever. And I went with
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: our other friend, not because I'm good at chores, but
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: because I'm good at like talking to people while they
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: do chores. And I just like, did tight vibes, Well
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: they screw like all my other friends scrub toilets or something.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: That's a good business model. I would pay for that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: By the way, Oh oh my god, someone hire me,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: because like I'm not good at chores and everyone knows this,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: so she so I understand. Like also, like female friendships
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: aren't as transactional. I think as men have created in
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: the new dating world, which is terrible, never get into it.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: But everything seems so transactional when I'm interacting with men
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and with women, it's hey, you were struggling, Hey, I
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: wanted you to go to this theme with me. So
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I just bought two tickets, get in my car. Like
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: it's always it's community is what it is?
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: You know, as you were saying that, I was just thinking,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: like you know that old adage where people say, like, oh,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: love finds you when you're not looking for it, And
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's because when you're not looking for it,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: your standards of what you're looking for in a partner
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: are or are you're what you're looking for in like
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: someone that you're meeting are friendship standards. They are not
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: romantic standards. And so it's almost like so like you're
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: looking for connection, nurturing, listening, those things that you get
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: as a default when you're looking for female friendships in particular,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: for whereas like in a romantic partner, when you're going
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: into that with that mindset, you're thinking about, is there chemistry?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Is there?
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Long term like goal alignment is there?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Like a fire or a passion, and that's like the
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: wrong lens through which to like compare whether or not
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: someone is a good partner, Like if you go into
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: it looking for a good front and then you also
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: like can fuck, then like that's a great those are
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the better, that's the better like foot to start on.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I also you are one hundred percent correct,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And this is why I'm a big advocate for like
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the pause in between relationships. I have like year long
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: pauses between me and the last person who is allowed
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: near me, who was a man, And now that that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: chapter of my life is over, but it's still been
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: years since I've had a partner. Within those years, you
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: become so self sufficient on what you like and how
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you like it, and you're okay with going to restaurants
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and movies by yourself. And like I lived in a
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: city and now I'm kind of living in a more
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: not rural, but like a suburban area where sometimes I
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: do get side eyes because I'm eating in a restaurant
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: by myself, and I'm like, have you never seen a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: woman unaccompanied by a man or her mother? Where's her father?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Where's her father? Now? Where is her chaperone? He's just
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: out here walking. Uh, but I think you do just
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: learn so much more about how to be comfortable and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: loving to yourself without the extra pressure of all of
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the games that we've taught to make him invested in you.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely true, completely agree, like you should be comparing them
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: to no one like instead of to another partner or
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: your ideal of something. It's like, am I better off alone?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: And if your answer is yes, statistically yeah, I mean, yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: you're gonna live longer without him, that's sciences. So am
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I willing to trade a couple of years of my
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: life to be in a relationship with this person or
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: kind of just like chill with my friends and be alone.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Will I get some sort of chronic disease by being
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: so stressed out from looking at him every day? Well
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: then maybe I know. But yeah, I think like that's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: what it is. And I think that our culture and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: our society has been so digmatized by the like, no,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: your life begins and ends when a man chooses you.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: So when I'm looking at my friend's relationships as a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: person who is not an active member of their relationship,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and I watch her be talked down to or have
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to go to a sport or any number of the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: things that I know she doesn't want to be doing
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: or put be put up with. Get like, I get
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: like really irrationally sad but also angry, but also sad,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Like I'm like, why, Hey, we could be in a
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: lavender field picking lavender, Like that's what we could be
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: doing today?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Is that the default I should be striving for?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Natalie? I have Wow, I'm gonna leave my friends. I
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: haven't gone to a la doorfield one single time.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I've been once and it was a all you can
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: pick lavender field and they also had lavender products in
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: their tiny little store and it was a really hard
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: lavender field to find in Dayton, but I loved it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: It was so like romantic with me and my friend
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: who found it on Facebook.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I'm running a group tax out to every single female
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I've ever been friends with and been like, where the
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: fuck is my lavender field?
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: You're cut off?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I guess the more normal place was it the lavender field.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: It was the apple orchard, Like bitches love to be
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: at an apple orchard, And that is actually more relatable
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: than me being like I've picked lavender, you haven't. But
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I also think that like part of the problem with
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: me having no interest in dating men anymore is that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: they're not very creative on dates, now, are they? But
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: my friend found a lavender field on Facebook.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Like your friend will do a movie night with you
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: at net flex and chill, but they'll also come with
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: the snacks.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think also watching my friends compromise
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: things that are actually important to them because it's just
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: easier to play to their partner's ego is something that
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: because I've been so out of practice of it, I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: cannot tolerate it. I'm like, what are you doing? Like
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you wanted to finish your master's program, but he thought
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that that was too much time out of your home,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: so you stopped. Why, Like, relationships fall apart, but a
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: degree is a paper. I think they let you keep forever.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, with variable value. It's same with men. So there
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you go. Do you tell your friends when you are
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: you the type of friend who has those conversations with
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: her ains.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So that's going to lean into my next pet peep
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that I'm currently experiencing and have been experiencing for a while.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Because of this podcast, I lured myself into a false
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: sense of security where I'm like, women want to hear
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: how the patriarchy thoughts them because they listen to my
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: show and they still love me, so they want to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: hear about it. So I would ask leading no, so
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I would say the quiet part out loud, and I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: would be like, that's stupid and he sucks, and that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: was actually gaslighting. And then all of a sudden, all
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of your friends are to get your phone calls anymore.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: But honestly, that's what started to happen, is that my
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: friends enter relationships and instead of assuming that I'm going
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: to be happy for them, they assume that they have
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to break it to me like Grandma died. They should, they.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Should be breaking it to you. I'm on your side
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: on this one. I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sure your boyfriend sucks.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: They all do.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Every one of my friends.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Every one of my friends has known that I'm not
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: gonna like their partner. They don't even calm into it
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: with like an attempt. I had someone's partner tell me
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the other day because he asked me to. He sat
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: in a chair that I was sitting in. He said,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to spound the rest of my relationship
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: apologizing for this moment to you, and I thought, yes,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: and I'm glad that you know this about me. Like,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: we don't have to be friends. I'm not in your bedroom,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: we don't ever have to hang out again.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Please be away from my presence. But like, yeah, so
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: now I have friends who like just kind of disappear
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: for months at a time, and then finally when that
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: fucker fucks up in a giant dramatic way, now all
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, getting voice notes with Hey, it's me.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: He stole my car. That's an example, because I don't
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: want to call anyone. Actually, he stole my car. My
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: dog was in it. It took me week three weeks
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to find it. And I didn't know how to tell
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you that we were in a relationship. And it was
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: friend of the Pod Annie Sieg, who is my spiritual
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: life partner, who told me those aren't good friendships. If
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: your friends can't own it that they're dating a dirt
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: bag because they know that you will know on site
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: that he's a dirt bag, then that says way more
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: about how they actually feel about you than it does anything.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Because it's not your fault they date dirtbags and are
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: completely aware of it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: It's patriarchy that people feel that female friendships can exist
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: if the partner that they're dating is not in sync
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: with that relationship. If I don't like your partner, who
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: gives a fuck? That has nothing to do with our friendship.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: You can date him forever and I can hate him.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Who cares? Why does he have to have a space
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: in that at all?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: No, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but yeah, I and
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I always know when specific friends are hiding a relationship
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: for me because they literally disappear. And I'm talking like
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: people who text me once a day, once a week, whatever, gone,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm like huh, and then I just start picking
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: up on clues maybe.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Well, like why hid it? This is why?
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: This is where I think you and I are on
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: a different We're on a.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Different plane in this discussion, because like I have had
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: boyfriends that were terrible and my friends told me they
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: sucked and they were one hundred percent right, and then
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: who cares? Like I'm still around, I still a free time.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Why does that have anything to do with anything?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: So I think I think the podcast has given me
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: like this, like power I never asked for over people
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: where they're like, we can't be anything but perfect feminist
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: who hate misogyny in front of Nadley because she's actually
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: doing the work. And I think that's what it is.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's a superby bear. Yeah, it's like a
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: power and a pedestal that they've put me on because
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I'm doing the work. And when they they or go
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: back to a sleave's ball that they've told me is
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: a slave's ball, then they're like, how do I admit
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that to the queen of fighting misogyny? And I'm not
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: the queen of fighting misogyny. Sophia Bushes Kamala Harris is like,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: there are other.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: People more about Okay, Sophia Bush not the first name
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that came to my mind, but continue.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: So, Sophia Bush is just like one of my hyperfixations
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: because one Tree Hill is my entire personality now. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure why I am seeing Tyler Hilton to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: like round out my perfect summer of seeing ridiculous people
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: in concert like Ludacris. That's what I'm doing next week
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: and Sophia Bush. And I don't know if this this
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: is true or not, but every time I look at
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Sophia Bush's Instagram and or social media or I listen
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: to our podcast, or I stare at photos of her
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: because she's so pretty, oh.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: So pretty. I guess in my mind this is my
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: own misogyne. I'm like, there's no way.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, she's at the White House. In my brain every
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: day she's just baiting on the White House door, screaming
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: about the injustices done to women. Today, I watched a
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: TikTok of her on some white ladies podcast too. I
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: don't know, but she was talking about how she tried
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to get her hair done in a walk in salon
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: moment with her friend of color, and the women in
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: the salon couldn't do a walk in on her friend
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: because they're quote unquote like person who could do like
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: curly hair wasn't there. And she was enraged by that.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So she somehow funded a salon that was inclusive to everybody,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and she made white ladies get training on how to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: do textured hair.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: You've blown my mind right now.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: She's so sexy.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: She is she is.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I just had no idea. I really need to drill
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: down on some I really need to drill down on
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: my One Tree Hill actresses, obviously, and that's my shortcoming.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: You also need to be following my favorite witch, Hillary Burton,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: because her it's the only heterosexual couple that I'm into,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: because her and Jeffrey Dean Morgan are so hot when
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: they stand up to one another.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: That they have like the farm with the animals and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: this I am aware. Oh my god, I see I
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: am checked in a little bit.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I just want to be in between them at all times.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Do you think they'd let me? Is there a cameo
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: for that?
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I think if you said, like, you've been abandoned by
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: your previous family and we're.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Looking to be adopted.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I've been in this shelter for seven thousand days, show
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: up with a sign and they'd be like, we'll take her,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: We'll take her.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I'm in love. I am in love with the women
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of One Tree Hill, and that's my right because and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Bethany Joy has put herself and me through it. But
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I am so enamored with her musical talent and the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: range of her talent that I there there is no
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: better trio of women than the women of One Tree Hill, unless,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of course, we're talking about the fictional women, which is
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the Hollowell's sisters from Charmed.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: These are parasocial female friendships see everyone be unnoticed. We
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: don't even need them to be two sided.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: They're still better right deep down. I know Sophia Bush
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: loves me. If we were in the same room together,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I know she'd be so into me. And because of
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Sophia Bush and Glennon Doyle, when I was like, oh
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm queer, I was like, when do I get my
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: soccer wife? If I said it out loud enough times
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that one of them should have arrived in the male
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: because Glennon got a soccer wife and so did Sophia,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, where is mine? Where is my nice,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: easygoing soccer wife. Someone tell me?
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: It seems like a reasonable ask.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I know, I thought I would just be a signed one.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I'm barely certain. That's how it works. When you register
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: as queer, they're like soccer wife.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. I thought I was going to put
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: queer on enough surveys that they would just be like,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: here are some tickets to the World Series. Here they are,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: and then I'd meet a soccer wife. But yeah, Sophia
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Bush is the queen of like fighting the patriarchy harder
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: than I ever could, because she actually like changes legislation
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and has money to buy like women friendly businesses and
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: things like that. So I think what happens is like
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I would never be able to approach Sophia Bush and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: be like sometimes I still listen to Nelly, even though
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: he played at the inauguration. I'd never to think of
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: telling Sophia Bush like something like that. It's like on
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Love Island when Megan thee Stallion had to tell Huda
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: that she had to get it together, and I was like,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I would simply burst into plame.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I would as well, because I have an anxious attachment
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: style with my friendships and that's not healthy. But I
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: think it's good because you're kind of like it's like
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: what you were saying about your friends, like you're pushing.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I find the need to test my friendship boundaries even
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: more than my relationship boundaries, Like I'm showing up as
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: imperfectly as a person can, and if you can still
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: show up for me in return, like that's forever.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: And then there are my friends who have like perfectly
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: adequate men that are attached to them or whatever, and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: every time they have to tell me something about them
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: because of context, whatever they were doing, they go I'm
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: so sorry that I must bring him up. But the
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: man was also there, and here's some context. And the
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: last time it happened it was with my you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: soul friends. So I told her. I was like, you
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: don't have to do that. I am happy that he
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: ends up treating you well. And she's like, but I'm
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: not happy that I'm one of those girls that has
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: to tell you about their partner, because I hate it
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: when the only thing women can talk about is their
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: partner and what he did or didn't do.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Well, what are the circumstances? Are their circumstances where you
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: feel like you would be settled with your friend's partner.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Like I would like them?
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I might, yeah, like them.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: No, No, I'm just talking about merely tolerate them without
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: some modicum of disgust.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. My number one rule is that my favorite type
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of man who has to be in the room with
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: me is a quiet one. I love when they're quiet,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: scene but not heard, scene but not heard, just like
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: children and the nineteen twenties.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: I'm on a Victorian ghost of a partner.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like guys who have like by energy,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: like I mean, Jonathan Bailey isn't by but like if
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: you could encapsulate Jonathan Bailey enhance Pedro Pascal. That's my
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: actual example. We don't know anything about Pedro, about Papa
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Pascal's sexuality. I've never seen him in a photo with anybody.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Well now, according to my fan fiction, he's been in
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: a relationship with Bad Bunny four years.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so if you so, if they acted, if
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I got Pedro Pascal vibes from them, they're an ally
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: but they're not like out loud. They're not trying to
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: out ally you with your own sisters or queer people
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: or whatever and there, and it's just so natural and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: it's not in an attention grabbing way. It is actually
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: out of the place of empathy and kindness. Pedro Pascal
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: is the goal. And if they can't be Pedro Pascal,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: then they have to be quiet.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: That's not good.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you can't be Papa Pascal, then you must
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: be silent.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I think what you're describing here is listening. You want
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: someone who listens and then just repeats back, well what
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you've said.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I also so, I was in an improv class recently
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and there were definitely men who could play with me
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: as a person who only focuses on issues and things
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: that women go through, and they could pick it up
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: and they could run with it. And then there were
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: men who immediately put the wall between them and me
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: and tried to change the subject. And what I find
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: is that men who are very fluid in their gender
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: expression and their masculinity and are willing to put it
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: aside for whatever the moment actually calls for are men
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: that I'm instantly comfortable with. But if I say something like, God,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I had to drive home a different way last night
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: because my tender date was so weird that I didn't
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: want him to know how to get to my house
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: easily in case he followed me or whatever, And a
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: man instantly has to a stick up for a fictional
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: man that they don't know about, or be just try
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and change the subject because they have no wherewithal of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: what to do with that information because they're so rigid
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and men are good. Masculinity is great, We're on top.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: How would I ever relate to women? I'm immediately like,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: so it's not even a fear of response, but I
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: do feel like I'm in like free state where I'm like,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: how have you women relate to men?
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: All?
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: The time and the things that you guys have decided
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: are problems, but you can't understand that women are in
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: danger every day. I don't understand.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: This is something we talk about on our podcast lot
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: and I've gotten a lot of like feedback from different people,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: and I think that there are multiple thoughts on this.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: But where people will be like a man can't write
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: a female's perspective, like never do it well, and it's like,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: can they not do it well because women have been
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: doing it for like a really long time. It's just empathy,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: it's listening, it's research, it's like asking one single person
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: about their experience. And I think like we have is
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: like default, particularly where they're like you see this in
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Friends Partners too, where you're just like if you just
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: showed like a modicum of interest in trying to like
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: meet someone where they are instead of having to like
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: find ways that they relate to you, you'd be fine.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: That's it. That's all.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: It is another gross example because it's the Ashton Kutcher
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: and we hate him, we hate him, we hate him,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and we want Mila to escape, Like call me, I'll know.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: There's something wrong there, there's something broken in her she's
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: two in.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: It, she met she's because she met him when he
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: was four, when she was fourteen, lying and saying she
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: was seven.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: But she went back to.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Him as a final ass adult.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: We go to therapy.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I know you're right, You're right. I know it's hard.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: It's hard, it's complicated. But there was that movie. It
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: was called Just Friends or Fucking My Friend or whatever,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and it had him and nany Portman in it, and
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: nany Portman and her whole female apartment went down with
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: cramps on the same day, and he like, and again
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: it was played up for comedy, like, look at this
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: man going into the trenches of all of these women.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Plus I think a gay guy who had like sympathy cramps,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Like I remember that being in the scene, but tell
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: me I'm wrong. And he's making hot water bottles and
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: giving them twizzlers and chocolates and like crying to the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: notebook with them or whatever. It probably wasn't the notebook
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: that was, but whatever it would have been. And I'm like, okay, yeah,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: that a man who because the opposite is men who
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: are like, ew, did you have your period? You have
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: to take the garbage out immediately? What if I was
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: subjected to that, like.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: You need to go to your shed and come back
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: in one week, yes, your period.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Said yes, And believe me, I would love a period shed.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Please build me one. But you know it makes me
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: think of my uh. One of my grandma figures was
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: the UH nurse at my mom and aunt's school when
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: they were growing up, and my aunt told me one
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: day that this grandmother figure explained to all of them
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: how their period worked, like because one of them got
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it or whatever, and she put them in the nurse's
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: office and she's like, this is how your period works.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: And then she was like, and when you're on your mencies,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: you're gonna want to keep magazine or newspaper clippings in
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: your back or in your purse because then you can
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: wrap them up in a little parcel and the janitor
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: will never have to see it. And it's like, that's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, the fact that they can't ever
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: be inconvenienced with something that our body does everyone.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: So I should stop sticking my pads on my partner's
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: pillow every day, Is that what you're saying? Because I
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: like make him a bed out of it, like a nest,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: and then I say, you go here and you sleep
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: in this revel in my shed shedding.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I fully wear period underwear at this point,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: and you have to hate them dry so like it's like,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: why are those thick panties everywhere? And it's like those
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: are my period underwear. They're filled with the blood of
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: my ancestors. I don't know. Yeah, but there's a difference.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: So I think that's the energy men who can actually
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: play within the confined. I guess it's actually throwing away
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: the confines of these social gender norms that we have.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Because I also had men in that in prep class
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: who would play women and it wasn't even because the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: same quote unquote made them like. I didn't assign them sally.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: They just like picked up and decided that they were
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: a woman in that scene. And I'm like, this is
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. These are the type of men
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that I feel comfortable with, men who aren't so Midwestern
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: about what it means to be a man.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I'm from the Midwest, so I have to say the
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Midwest gets a bad rap there there are but.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, well, yeah, I'm taking this in prov
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: class in the Midwest. But you know, the like the type.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: You're in the Midwest too, I forgot about this, Okay, yes,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I agree. I know. The only reason I say that
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: is because I think there's this like general feeling that
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: like people on the coast are like so much more evolved,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: and they like are and I honestly think that they're
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: worse because they subvert there, they like sublimate their their annoyingness,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: and they're like biases with like good talk but bad action.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: It's a no for me.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a no for me. And they come
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: off thirsty. Yes, yes, and good boy I am.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Tell me what a good boy am?
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I know this person? And you really admire them? You
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: get away from me?
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: That cares?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Are they here? Did you invite them?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: No?
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Get away from me? Yeah? So I think, I mean,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: what's it for you? Like, what's the Have you ever
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: crossed the line to be like this one can come
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: to Christmas? I've decided m.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: No, m mmm no.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Honestly, like there's no. I don't want them to feel
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: loved or liked. I want them to feel tolerated and
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: so that is there's literally nothing they can do. I
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: don't ever want them to feel like they can get
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: in my good graces.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I will also say that I do appreciate when my
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: friends are dating golden retriever boys because they will do
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: tasks for me too, just because they have boundless like
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I help energy and I usually have no help. So
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: that's it.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: That's yes.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: But again, you can't let them know.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I don't want them to feel I don't want them
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: to feel like comfortable at one single minute.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Has this happened to you? Have you ever looked at
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: a friend and because of their taste in partners or
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: because of the way that they I don't want to
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: use the word allowed that feels toxic, but because of
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the way that they have repeatedly been treated by one partner,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: you look at them and go, I think I gotta
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: go because I'm gonna be mean out of my loss
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: of respect for you, and that's not healthy for either
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: one of us. So I think I think I'm done
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: because I think it plays into what Annie was saying about, like,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: if these people are actively avoiding you because they don't
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: want to fess up to you that they're dating an
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: asshole that you know as an asshole, they're not really
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: your friend. Because I do, I'm like, I think I'm done, Like,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: what do you mean?
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I definitely understand that, and I think it's probably the
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: best way to be. But I feel like, in my mind,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to cook you in my friendship
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: of this person.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: Yea, I'm gonna be they're a better.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Partner that you have to watch treat them well in
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: your face as you disappear. Yeah, it's that's a normal
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: way to feel about your friends, right, I want to
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: cut your partners.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I feel such a like feeling
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: of shame and guilt for abandoning them, because in my head,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we don't walk out on abused women because
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: they're abused, and in my but in my head, I'm like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: but I can't continue the cycle with you where we're
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: all very aware that you're abused, but you keep on
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: RSVPIN to the party and then but then, because I
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: also know how the abuse cycle works, I'm like, but
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: that's what those motherfuckers want. They want her to be isolated.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: So then I get stubborn again, and I'm like, I
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: refuse to isolate you because he can't win and you
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: need to be safe and this is how women die.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so it is like it's a constant balance
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: of like how do I combat the ways that my
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: soul feels watching my friends actively take part in misogyny
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: and patriarchy within their loving relationships or not so lovely relationships,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: keep myself safe but also be very aware of like
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: this is how women get hurt, like the statistics and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the math and the you know, Discovery ID channel line up.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's no, I'm totally with you. It's a
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: hard such a hard balance to strike because I think
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: there's a difference between like safety and then just like
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: bad toxic emotional partners. It's a thin line, but I
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: do think there is a line there where like one
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: you probably just like established boundaries, but you make maintain
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: a presence out of like yeah, support and safety for
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: your friend. That's a different thing, I think than just
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: being like I have had friends in the past where
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this is a cycle that you enjoy to
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: some extent, Like you like the the feeling of being
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: like subjugated to this person is something that you're like
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: leaning enjoyment from to some extent, and like that I
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: think is fair to be like we're getting a draw
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: boundary here.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Like an observer in this cycle, because then you're co
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: signing it, and then they never there has to be
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: some external marcro of like you fucked up here, so
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't feel too bad. Not everyone should take my
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: approach of being like, I want to watch you, make
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: you watch me nurture your partner.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: But you know what's so funny. In my stand up
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: comedy notebook that I've all but abandoned because I've been
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: working on other things, there is a post it note
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: that has the lead in with I'm newly queer in
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the Midwest, and I don't actually know how to approach women.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: So now I just am a better partner to my
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: friends than their partner is, and the hottest thing that
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: they could do is acknowledge it. One time, my friend
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: was kindness semi dating a guy seriously and I was
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: on the cusp of moving back to the area, and
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: she fucking told him and she was like, yeah, and
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: my friend Natley is moving back and she's more important
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to me than you, and we love her and by
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: we I mean me. You actually have no presence here
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: and like just and that man didn't ask, like she
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: was just spouting nonsense about how great I am, and
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so turned on like me so yes,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I do think that there is a part of me
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: who would also just like to cook men by being like,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: do you see how nice I am to her?
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: Do you see this? Do you see this? Listening, this compassion?
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Do you see this? Do you think see how she's
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: comfortable crying in front of me? Do you see?
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: I want you just to like, yeah, you like lean
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: in for the hug, you're rubbing their hair, and then
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: you just lean over and give a little you know, which.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: To be fair is a fantasy I've had about several
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of the women involved with Critical Role and their husbands.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I've always been like, how do I cut these giant men?
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Who plays?
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: This has gonna become just like this is an erotica
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: podcast now it has nothing to do.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I'm sure is some sort of No, It's
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: just a fun fantasy for me, and I'm going to
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: keep it in my spank bank, and you know what,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: You're all gonna let me have it. Uh, but yeah,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I like it. Does it becomes a struggle when I
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: know that I've reached the brink and I'm like, I
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: can't do it one more time. But I do hope
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: that even if I'm not actively doing it one more
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: time with that woman, that woman knows that if she
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: should call me at two am to be like I
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: gotta go and we have an hour to do it, Boom,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I'm in the car.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Friendships should be a long I don't know a historical thing.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well because I I was raised by women
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: who would literally throw me in the road if I
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: didn't get in the car. Like my best friend has
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: always been like, hey, your aunt is on my phone
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: call list. Should I need to get out of my marriage?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Your aunt, not my mom? Your aunt? And I'm like, okay,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: it is because my family. I don't know if we
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: talked about this in our pre chat, but like, my
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: family did not give me the women in my family
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: did not give me the impression that the men in
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: our family were actually all that important to us.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: No, a matriarchy.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I also come from a matriarchy, And I feel like
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: that is that is a recipe for a good female friend,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Like you learn how to navigate the difficulties of like
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: being in a large group where people have different personalities
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: and getting over it and moving on from conflict but
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: also showing up.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: It is the recipe, and on this side of my family,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: like so many good men. And so I attribute it
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: to my grandmother being widowed young while my mom and
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: her siblings were still young, and just like that they
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: had to like she was just in charge because the
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: other guy, God had other plans, I guess.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: And so I was like, died, and you were like, yeah.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to talk about my poor grandpa dying,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know because I didn't know him. One
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: time I went to the graveyard and I was specifically
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: only talking to Grandma and then crying and tattling on people,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: and then I kind of just like pivoted. I was like, hi, Grandpa, Yeah, sorry,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: I came just to rat people out. It's nice to
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: see you, but yeah, uh so, yeah, it's just it's
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like I don't know
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: how to talk about other people's dads dying. But yeah,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: so you know, my grandma was in charge, and my
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: other grandma, through a series of unfortunate events, was also
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the only person that I saw being in charge of
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: my dad and his siblings. And so to me, I
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: think I always thought like I don't know. I guess
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: men come and go and then we just persevere. We
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: don't because like my mom's mom was never I don't
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: think she ever dated. And I think when someone asked her, like, hey,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: that guy likes you, you're gonna play into it, she went,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, why would I? And I'm like, I think
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: that's been my attitude since day one?
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Like them mm hmm yeah, agreed.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah so, And also like, I think that raises better men,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: when a matriarchy raises better men.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: And I yes, it absolutely does.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my uncle's good natured, My great uncle's some of
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: my favorite people on the planet. Like, my great uncle
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: used to cry every time he saw me because he
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: was just so enamored by the existence of me, And honestly,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that gave me too big of an ego. I was like,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: your uncles don't cry when they see you at the mall.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: They don't. That's so weird. Your great aunts don't tell
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: your mom that you're so special and that music flows
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: out of your veins. That's so weird.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Like it's so weird, that's so embarrassing for.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Them, that's so embarrassing for them. I guess you should
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: have more you know, emotionally open relatives. I don't know.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: My people kept telling me how great I was. Just
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: the older people, the people who were my mom's generation,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: loved to humble us. One time, one of my other
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: my mom's cousins wrote in like a Christmas letter or
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: something about all the accomplishments of her children, and my
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: mom and her sister were making fun of it, and
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: my cousin went, two, if you ever think about writing
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: a letter about us and our accomplishments, And my aunt
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: looked at him and went, you'd have to have accomplishments first. Now,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: when didn't you do something great? And we'll write a letter,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: we promise.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: And that's important. That's all so important.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: It's a balance. I'm both sarcastic and cry easily, and
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: it's because of how I was raised.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: I'm emotionless and yet feel everything all the time.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: All the time. And I'm still telling you that matriarchy
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: is better. I wouldn't have traded it for anything in
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: the world. I always wanted my mom and my aunts
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: to be in charge, and I always desperately wanted to
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: listen into what they were talking about.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: That's the motto of a matriarchy.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Is like, we hurt your feelings, you don't hurt our feelings.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: That's how it goes.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, right, Because my great aunt also told me
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: on the eve of my high school graduation or at
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: my graduation party, she was like, you know, namely, the
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: world's a dangerous place for women when they leave their home,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to be. And I was like, listen.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: She's like, because I hope you know that you could
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: make one phone call and there are several people who
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: will just take care of that for you. And I
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my god.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Oh I love a mafia matriarchy even more. That's the
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: stuff dreams are made of.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, take care of I was like, oh.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: And then I would tell that story to young women
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: and they'd be like, no, we didn't get that lecture
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: from anyone in our family. And I was like, that's
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: so weird. What do you mean the women in your family.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Don't just think that the men in your family are
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: just like giant hired hands to take care of face.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. Yeah, so a matriarchy, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: And I think that, especially now in twenty twenty five,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: men are so scared of our matriarchy, and that's why
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: they've made up the loneliness epidemic. They made it up
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that they just want to punish it and be like
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: and that's how in cell culture has been on the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: rise or whatever. And really it's like, you guys could
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: have taken in cell culture and you all could have
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: just gone and seen the new Mission Impossible movie together
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: and had a good time and been healthy about it.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Or just like start fucking each other.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I beg, like, that's what.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Any woman would do. They'd be like cool.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Like literally animals in nature are like, oh, we don't
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: have men around, we'll just fuck out of our own bodies.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: We'll literally multiply our single cells on their own.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I beg. I love to watch Love Island and just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: scream at them and that they should kiss already, just
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: kiss him. That's who you like.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: I'm watching the latest season.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Come on, Jeremiah, Come on, Jeremiah, Ace Ace Ace Ace Ace.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: Is like, Jeremiah, just hold my hand, Just.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Hold my hand. Last season with Rob and Aaron, just
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: kiss each other. Leave us alone. Honestly, honestly, we should
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: move into the closing ceremony because I know, I'll talk
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: to you for hours. If you had to take one
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: lesson away from what you've learned about misogyny within female friendships,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: what would you want everyone to know.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: I would want everyone to know that friendships as relationships
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: do not have to integrate partners. Those can be two
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: separate things.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I actually love that, because we're told the opposite so
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: often that we have to accept these partners and being
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: a friend means being his friend too, or whatever, and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: we don't. If you left them alone on enough, I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: think they'd find a friend they'd have to because of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: survival or something, or they'd at least learn how to
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: use the door dash app on their phone and feed.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Themselves completely completely agree.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: What is something that you would like to manifest for
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: the general energy collective and any woman who might be
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: struggling in her female friendships.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: You know what I want to manifest.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: I want to manifest in the world just a general
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: ease with oneself, not at like separate from how they
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: are perceived in the world, Like perceive yourself completely, get
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: really really comfortable with that, and then I think those
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: friendships that you have will come to you so much
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: faster than the relationships that you're looking for.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: That's a beautiful new way to add in the perception
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: part of something that we may manifest a lot, which
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: is like, what if you just loved yourself? Have you tried?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a really stupid way of just saying
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: love yourself.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: No, But like you brought in the like. So often
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: we're just thinking about the outside perception and whether or
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: not they love us, and that's the huge blocker to it.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: So it was a good reminder. Okay, Lindsey, thank you
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: so much for being here.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I can't wait until you come back to talk about
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: how fairy Spot is part of the revolution.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I will talk about this for seventeen hours.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I will book a weekend. It is part of
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: the revolution and I'm sold on it thanks to Chelsea
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: DeVante's and Lindsay and we'll be doing an episode about it.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: Tell everyone where they can follow you and your podcast
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: and get to know you better.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: You can follow my podcast literally books on whatever.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Podcast application you use.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: You'll know where to find those, Apple, Spotify, all the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: good stuff. You can see us at our website literally
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: books dot com. I am at Underscore literally Lindsay on
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: all socials and you can just hear me rant and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: rave about things that are highly trashy and also highly
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: classy occasionally, and.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I love it. Stay trashy or classy, whatever it suits
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: you that day. Sometimes we're in the Gilded Age and
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes we're on Love Island.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I'll give you like, look, I will give you dissertations
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: on the trashy, and I'm going to give you the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: smart spark notes on the classy, like that's where the
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: balance lies.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: But they're both gonna be there.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and that's what we want. Uh. And then
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Tolerators follow us all on socials and Men I've Tolerated pod.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe to the podcast never miss an episode.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Nadley K one two four for all Instagram and TikTok things,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: and I've always invited you to just type into all
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: the men I've tolerated before on a social media app
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: and figure out if I forgot that we had an
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: account there. That's fun, and then DM me and be like,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: you do actually have a zulup for to all the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: men I've tolerated before, and I'll be like, that's weird.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: And remember, Tolerators, you don't have to smile through anything
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: you're tolerating, including waking up, and none of your friends
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: are taking your call anymore because they're too busy lacating
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: a new partner. Smiles are for joy under can