Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Why Self-Awareness Isn't Enough | Episode 10
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar: Have you ever had one of those moments where you finally realized what the problem was? You saw the pattern, you understood the trigger, you connected the dots, and for a minute it felt like everything was about to change. But then a week later, you were right back in the same cycle. Same thoughts, habits, same same frustration. And now you're not just stuck, you're aware that you're stuck. That's what we're talking about today, because awareness matters. But awareness alone isn't enough. Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar, co-founder of Suffer2Tougher. Marc Rogala: And I'm Marc Rogala. Kelsey Dunbar: Today's episode is one that I think a lot of people need, especially if you've been listening to podcasts, reading books, following mental health pages, watching motivational content, and starting to realize your own patterns. That awareness is important, but at some point, a lot of people get stuck in the same place. They can say, I know why I do this, okay? ⁓ I know where it comes from. I even know what my triggers are. I know I need to change, but the next question is, now what? Because if awareness doesn't turn into struggle, action, and consistency, it can just become another loop. So we're gonna break this down into different segments. So segment one, obviously, awareness matters, right? Okay, so the goal is to validate awareness before changing it, okay? So first I want to be clear. Yes, awareness matters. We're not saying awareness is useless. Awareness is often the first breakthrough. For a lot of people, the first time they can name what's happening, they feel relief. They realize, ⁓ my God, I'm not crazy, right? There is a pattern here. This reaction has a reason. Okay, cool. All right. This habit is connected to something deeper. Okay, good to know. That can be powerful because before awareness, people are often just reacting. They don't know why they shut down. They don't know why they sabotage their progress. They don't know why they overeat, overwork, isolate, lash out, avoid hard conversations, or keep going back to the same behaviors. So awareness gives language to the pattern. It helps you see the loop. It helps you stop blaming yourself blindly. But here's where we have to be careful. Awareness is not the same as transformation. It is the doorway, but it is not the destination. So Marc where do you see awareness help people most at the beginning? Marc Rogala: Well, I think that the biggest thing is that they finally get some relief, you know, knowing that, you know, there's that, they're off a little bit and, there's really a medical reason why they're off. ⁓ They're not defective, you know, they're not, they're not the person that they portray in the brain because the brain can be very self if you will, you know, because we feel that ⁓ we're stronger than this, you know, and we shouldn't be going down this path. And, you know, and then you start thinking to yourself, okay, I'm weak, you why don't, why don't other people have these issues and so forth? know, but when you actually find out that there's a reason why it's happening and there's a medical reason why it's happening, you realize that you're not on an island by yourself, you know, that you're not, you're not, you're not alone. There's other people going through the same thing, which I think is ⁓ the psyche and the brain because they know that obviously it's fixable with the right structure and the right patterns. But the other thing too is ⁓ also aware ⁓ what the triggers like you alluded to there in those initial statements, whether it's a job and you got a month end quota and that last week of the month is chaotic and all of a sudden you have extreme anxious feelings. two, maybe the holiday season, or maybe certain holidays or birthdays, specifically with people that aren't here. I mean, it's always a pattern behavior and being aware of those patterns is a huge first step and taking action and understanding because as we talked about before, it's all about being proactive and knowing your triggers and knowing those patterns. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, definitely. So the next thing I would like to talk about is what I call the awareness trap. Okay, so here's where awareness can become tricky. Sometimes people become very aware, but not very different. They know the pattern, they can explain the pattern, they can talk about the pattern, they may even post about the pattern, they're still living inside the same pattern. ⁓ I think this is where a lot of people get stuck today. We have more access to information than ever. More podcasts, more books, more reels, more quotes, more mental health language and all that's great, but can also create the illusion of progress because you're learning about it. But it's understanding your behavior and to actually start feeling like you're healing from it. know, talk about your goals can start to feel like pursuing them, but if nothing actually changes in your daily life, you're still stuck, just more informed. so sometimes that can feel even worse because now you know better, but you're still not doing better. ⁓ then that the shame and guilt. ⁓ And shame makes most people want to avoid things even more. So the awareness that was supposed to help you can become another place where you beat yourself up. So ⁓ Marc, where do you see people get stuck in awareness without actually moving forward? Marc Rogala: I think that the biggest thing is they know that changes need to occur, Kelsey, but change is not comfortable. know, and some instances, there's a lot of change that needs to happen. And now your ⁓ creates this monster that it's so daunting ⁓ ⁓ so much I have to change in my life that you have a tendency to run a little bit because you're intimidated by the changes that need to be made. That was the case with me. was the case with a lot of people that I had ongoing conversations for a period of time before they started implementing changes. ⁓ during that time, ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ got... worse and created more chaos for the family. know, it's ⁓ that's the biggest thing. you know, with that is overthinking, ⁓ I got to change my diet or I might have to go to the gym or I might have to go to meetings or whatever it might be. When am I going to find time for this? You know, so the overthinking comes into play. The fact that they don't think that they can do it, you know, that's where the talking comes in, but they're not doing it, you know, because they're again, they're intimidated by it. We're just stuck at that particular time. It's very scary. It's very intimidating. was scary and intimidating for me. you know, and I tend, I personally ran around a lot of people that I talked to initially will run or not answer a text or a phone call because they're scared of that change. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. And the other thing too is just, gets, you mentioned, the overwhelm, ⁓ know, is due to the fact that people think that they need to change everything all at once. It becomes all consuming because they're like, I got to change this and then I got to change that. And then I got to change that. And man, I don't know if I can change all that. Well, you're not supposed to change all that at the same time. That's why New Year's resolutions generally don't work ⁓ because ⁓ you sets it up to be like this. ⁓ I to become a new person. You don't have to become a new person. We always say, you you and I, and in the book, you know, talk about doing the next right thing. You know, so it's, you know, sometimes you just need to simplify, but when, you're sitting there with all that information, you're like, okay, I know all these things I need to change. And then nothing changes. Cause as you said, you're stuck in overwhelm. Marc Rogala: Yeah. I mean, it's like, you're talking about the information overload. I mean, we've talked about this before. I mean, I was on this quest for education. I was getting a lot of information out there. And what I realized personally is just about everything I was doing from a mental health perspective was wrong, leading me up to my crisis. I mean, everything was. So there had to be a lot of changes that needed to be made. And truthfully, with a lot of people that I work with, there's a lot of changes that need to be made. It's all about simplification. That's really what it comes down to. Simplify it, know, the kids keep it simple, stupid. You know, let's focus on the one day at a time and go from there. But people have to buy into that they have to believe that they can do it. And sometimes because of their mental health, they don't believe that they can do it. And that's why it's good to work with a coach that's been there before. Kelsey Dunbar: For sure. Yeah. And that kind of crosses over into, ⁓ you know, segment three here, which is, why knowing doesn't equal changing. So, you know, what I'm to do here is just kind of explain the gap between that insight and the actual behavior that needs to start. this is one of the biggest things I think people misunderstand. Knowing what to do doesn't automatically mean you could do it consistently. If it did, everyone would be healthy. Everyone would communicate well. Everyone would manage stress properly. Everyone would stop repeating harmful patterns the moment they recognize them. But that's not how people work. Change is not just intellectual, it's emotional, it's behavioral, it's environmental, it's relational, it's identity-based. You may know you need to exercise, but if you still see yourself as someone who always quits, you're going to struggle. You may know you need to communicate better, but if conflict feels unsafe, you're still going to avoid it. You may know you need to stop using food, alcohol, scrolling, work, or isolation order to cope, but if you don't have another coping structure, you'll just go back to what's familiar. That's why awareness alone doesn't solve it. because awareness tells you what's happening, but structure helps you do something different when it happens again. So Marc, why do you think people know exactly what they need to do and yet they still don't do it? Marc Rogala: I mean, I think the biggest thing, well, there's a couple of things, but one is people like being comfortable. You know, they don't, they, again, they do not like change. We know as a society, as human beings, we run for comfort, you know, things that have given us comfort in the past. Not realizing that there's good habits that we can actually start establishing that's going to give us probably even better comfort than the habits that we're actually participating in right now that's leading us to this chaos. ⁓ Obviously fear, you know, the fear of the unknown. You know, am going to lose some friends because I got to change some patterns on the weekend? You know, where am going to find a time to fit, you know, maybe going to the gym or maybe doing some walking? ⁓ You know, just, just again, it's the brain really has a tendency to play tricks on you. You know, it really, it really does. You and you have to change that mindset, you know. And again, with that it becomes Habits to lifestyle with the brain talk, habits to lifestyle with the activities. And, you know, obviously that's what we talk about in the book, you know, quite a bit. ⁓ The other thing too is the brain will run to what we've done in the past from a coping perspective. So if we tend to sit on a couch and watch TV at night, and eat ice cream or eat potato chips, it's gonna want that back. It's not necessarily gonna want to go out for a walk in the evening in nature. You're gonna have to just completely rewire the brain. And there's this constant tug of war battle those first few weeks until it becomes a habit. And then it gets easier. then once it becomes easier, eventually becomes a lifestyle. ⁓ that's why we talk about just simplifying things and just, you know, focus on one change that you can make maybe in the diet, one change you can make maybe with the physical fitness, ⁓ change you can make with mindset, you know, positive affirmations. Let's just start small and build on that and get some momentum created. Because once you get some momentum created, now you realize that you can actually do it. And once you actually realize you can do it, now all of a sudden the brain is working the opposite way where it wants more of that change. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. So if the missing bridge is structure, obviously then structure becomes so important, ⁓ it's the bridge between awareness and action. awareness says, I see a pattern. Structure says, what I do when that pattern shows up. Hmm. That's the difference, right? ⁓ you know you shut down when you're overwhelmed, structure gives you a reset plan. If you know you emotionally eat at night, Marc Rogala: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: Structure gives you a different evening rhythm. So if you know that you avoid hard conversations, structure will give you a way to start one before it explodes. If you know that you fall off every time life gets busy, structure gives you something simple enough to follow even on those hard days. This is why we talk about mind, body, and rhythm in our book and obviously when we present and here on our podcast, because people don't just need inspiration. They need a rhythm that supports who they're trying to become. So you wanna basically use mind to say, what story am I telling myself? Okay, and you wanna look at body as what am I doing or how am I taking care of myself physically? And when we talk about rhythm, we wanna be thinking about what repeatable structure actually keeps me grounded. So that's where the change starts becoming real, not because life gets easy, but because you've got something to return to. Marc, when someone finally adds structure, what types of thing changes? Marc Rogala: Well, one they're taking personal accountability, know, which I think is huge. Two, there's going to be a lot less chaos in life. So we talk about simplification, you know, keep it simple. Well, guess what? I'm not saying life gets easier in recovery off of mental health or mental health and addiction thing, but you do get a hell of a lot less chaos in your life that's personally created by some of those habits that you had. You know, that'll eliminate that chaos, which I think is huge and it makes it life a little bit easier to go through. You're still going to have ups and downs. You're still going to have painful moments, but you're not creating those painful moments with some activities that you're participating in. Few emotional decisions because the structure is in place. I think that is absolutely huge. Obviously repeatable steps, ⁓ something you're going to do on a daily basis. It's not something you're going to do just temporarily. ⁓ And again, that can be scary and daunting too. You know, we always use the example of a diabetic, you know, I mean, there's things that they need to do every single day to keep their disease in check. Well, you know, we need to do things every single day as well. And that's why we talk about, you know, starting, you know, just making one change and just building on it. But once it becomes a lifestyle, becomes second nature, once it becomes second nature, you don't even think you're doing anything different or anything special. People around you might think that you are, but you don't think that you are. You know, so the brain is completely rewiring to this is my new lifestyle. And once it rewires to this is my new lifestyle, there are certain things that become non-negotiables that's going to keep you in check with your anxiety and depression and triggering moments. Maybe if you deal with PTSD or panic attacks or whatever it might be. And it's certainly going to help you stay sober with whatever your drug of choice is, whether it's eating, whether it's gambling, whether it's alcohol, whether it's substances, because it's going to keep you busy. Your brain's not going to wander. And I think that, you know, sometimes people have a good time keeping it together during the week, minus the work stress, obviously, and things fall apart on the weekends because there's no structure on the weekends. and they don't have any plans going into the weekend. they got all this free time and that's where the brain can really be dangerous and take you down a path that you don't necessarily want to go to. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, and to that point, this has come up in conversations between Marc and I that when he talks to groups ⁓ leading into the weekend, it's the question that he always asks them. And I love this because it's so simple and yet so effective. The thing he asks them when he sees them is, what are you going to do this weekend to support your sobriety? Right? You always ask that. And I love that. It's so simple. Marc Rogala: Yeah, I mean, I tell them all the time, you want to have a nice diversified weekend. Something that's going to help your physical fitness, something that's going to help your mental fitness and something that's going to drive your spiritual fitness. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I just wanted to mention that because it's I said, it's such a simple thing that you do with them, but it really sets them up to be able to trust with like, okay, I have a plan. And you said that's when the wheels come off is on the weekend. But if they go into it with a plan and they just execute the plan, at least they have thought going into it. And they're not just like, okay, I'm just gonna try not to drink or I'm gonna try not to do drugs this weekend. ⁓ It's ⁓ well, these are the things that I'm going to do this weekend. That's going to keep me away from the situation that I know I don't want to find myself in. So I just wanted to mention that because I think it's a beautiful thing. Marc Rogala: Yeah, I mean, something as simple as I spent an hour on Friday with a group of individuals, you know, this we're recording this on a Sunday morning. Okay. So going into this weekend, it's nice weather. What are we going to do if we get a text from a friend that encourages to go out and we're trying to stay sober? We talked through those things. Okay. What do you, what do you got planned for? I got nothing planned for Saturday. I'm going to sit and I'm going to watch TV. Okay. We're going to sit and watch TV. They're not getting any physical activity. Your diet's probably not going to be spectacular. It's going to affect the brain chemistry that we talked about a couple of podcasts ago. Let's do something to drive that brain chemistry. I don't care if you're watching a little downtime because you had a busy week, but we're not going to sit there and watch a Netflix marathon on a weekend. You know what I'm saying? And you know, they laugh just like that, but they understand where I'm coming from. And then they start putting stuff down on a piece of paper. And then Monday, we hold them accountable. Did you do this? Did you do that? Did you do this? You know what? You know, why didn't we do this? Let's talk through this. So it's the accountability piece. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, absolutely. that's going to kind of lead into the next piece here. And that's just, you know, give yourself, practical framework. So, how do you move from to action? I mean, I'll start with these three questions. What is the pattern? Not just the behavior, the pattern. For example, I eat at night. That's the behavior. But the pattern might be I hold everything together all day. than I use food to decompress when I'm finally alone. That's different, right? So what is the trigger? Okay, is it stress? Is it loneliness? it conflict, fatigue, feeling unseen, feeling out of control? You have to know what sets that pattern in motion. And then the third question, what is the replacement structure? What is the part most people skip? They say, I need to stop doing that. but they don't decide what they're gonna do instead. And if you don't build a replacement, you usually go back to what's familiar, like Marc talked about before. So instead of just saying, I need to stop shutting down, maybe the structure is when I feel myself shutting down, I'll send one honest message instead of just disappearing. Instead of, I need to stop eating at night, maybe the structure is I make a planned evening snack. shut down the kitchen and go for a 10 minute walk. Instead of, I need to stop avoiding everything, maybe the structure is I pick one uncomfortable thing and take one small action before noon. Okay, so even putting a timeline on it is great, right? This is where transformation starts. Not in the awareness alone, in the repeated action the awareness. So. Marc, what's a simple first step you'd like to give people when they're aware of the pattern but don't know what to do next? Marc Rogala: I mean, it's a case by case basis, but you know, it really starts with one action. I mean, if they're obviously dealing with alcohol, some drug of choice, whether it's alcohol, substances, gambling or whatever, obviously we want to talk about abstaining because we want to get the brain chemistry healed as best as possible so you can get kind of a true baseline. you know, maybe write down some goals. track your progress, reward yourself for that progress. And when I say goals, talking something is really, really, really simple. You so you mentioned go on a 10 minute walk, go on a 10 minute walk and mentally before go to bed, have some positive self-talk. Hey, instead of raiding in the refrigerator and grabbing some ice cream while I was watching TV, I went on a 10 minute walk and that satisfied that urge or that crave or what have you. I still came back and I watched a 10 o'clock news and went to bed, but I spent one evening without eating ice cream and getting a sugar rush. know, honor that. You know, honor that because what you're doing there, quite frankly, is you're showing self love. You you're trying to get better. And I think that's a lot of people that are dealing with mental health or mental health and some type of addiction issues. That's what we lack. You know, we lack self-love. You know, we got all this shame, we got all this guilt on the inside. We think we're defective. We focus on all the things that we do wrong. But when we do something right, we don't acknowledge that. You know, so you definitely want to start acknowledging that because when you start acknowledging that you start feeling good about that. You start feeling good about the patterns that you're starting to create. And now you want more because now you're just starting to feel better physically and mentally. And that's where it starts. It just continues to grow from there. You know, again, I will say this for the audience from a dietary perspective. The first thing that I did was cut pop out of my diet. That's it. I was a big diet pop drinker. Exercise early on was the walk thing. And it was small walks at that. And then eventually it became longer and longer. And then eventually I found my way in the gym. I had no intentions of going to the gym and start weightlifting again. I really didn't. You know, it just kind of morphed as a result of the momentum that I created. You know, and then if it's a sober thing. Okay, I got through the weekend sober. If I can get through this weekend sober, I can get through the week sober. If I can get through the week sober, I can get through next weekend sober. It's all self-talk. But it's also living in the frigging moment too. You know, just trying to win the day. I talk to people, it's just what we need to do today to win the day? That's it. We wake up tomorrow, God willing. We'll worry about winning the day tomorrow. It is never more than a 24 hour contract. And if somebody is in crisis, again, mental health or mental health with some type of addictive tendency, it might not even be winning the day. It could be hour to hour, breakfast to lunch, lunch to dinner, dinner to bedtime, whatever it might be. You can break it down into increments, but it's never more than a 24 hour contract. And I think that's important because sometimes we think about life changing. we have to make permanently. again, it creates that monster. if I just have to think, okay, today I just have to do this, then wake up tomorrow. Today I just have to do this. It's a lot easier to attain some of those goals than looking at the totality of I got to do this, you know, for the rest of my life. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, for sure. And I was smiling as Marc was giving his answer there because as he talked about a couple podcasts back, we focused on brain chemistry. And as he's giving his answer, I'm sitting here and I'm like, okay, self-love, oxytocin. When it talked about going for a walk, endorphins. When he's talking about cutting out diapops, serotonin. I'm like going through all these brain chemicals in own mind, thinking about that all the little tips that he gave there. how it actually feeds brain chemistry like we talked about. So if you didn't watch podcast or listen to that podcast, definitely go back and do that because so much of this is tied to that. And I give Marc so much credit for really helping learn how much brain chemistry is a part all of this. So that's what I smiling about. And I think that it's great that it all ties together. so that education that you to get on how that affects you is so important. But all of this is really at the heart of what we do at Suffer to Tougher. know, we're not just, trying to help people become more aware. Awareness is part of it, like we talked about, but the real work is helping people build a structure they can actually live with. ⁓ Because a of people already know they're stuck. They know they're They already know something needs to change. What they don't have is a system. They don't have accountability. They don't have someone helping them identify the pattern or simplifying the next step. and help them stay consistent long enough for it to become real. And that's what we care about. Not perfection, as Marc said, winning the day. So not perfection, not pressure, not shame, just way to move forward, right? So Marc, when work with us, what do you think is different from just listening to content or trying to figure things out alone that we provide? Marc Rogala: Well, the biggest thing is you're in a community that understands, you know, so you truly are not alone. You know, obviously people struggle with different things, but you have a community that is very empathetic and understands the struggles of life. Obviously the support that we provide. ⁓ I think is huge opposed to somebody trying to find it on their own, which is what I was trying to do way back when because there was no Suffer To Tougher back then and makes it a lot more ⁓ Accountability is. unbelievable, specifically early on in recovery. And then when I say recovery, we're also talking about being recovered, recovery from anxiety and depression and things like that. And I want people to think we're just talking, you know, alcohol substances, eating or whatever it might be. You know, and on with us, ⁓ or me, I should say, it was just a certain individual that would hold me accountable, you know, by ⁓ texts. then we ended up creating a text group. And You know, there were mornings obviously that I didn't feel like working out or going on a walk, but when you wake up and you see somebody checking in, it's like, I don't want to let them down. It's like a psychological thing, right? I don't want to let them down. ⁓ I better get in there and get the work that I need to do and that up. Now I don't need that now, but certainly needed that back then. And then again, it slowly becomes lifestyle. ⁓ Obviously pattern recognition, think is big. When I say pattern recognition, know, that's where I guess journaling comes into play. But sometimes you really need to, you need to work with somebody, you know, to hold you accountable, to make sure you're writing down, you know, your feelings, you know, in a journal. Because sometimes that journal will absolutely show certain patterns. Like with me, I know for a fact, I get really, really weird around like birthdays and death anniversaries. And obviously the holidays are a tough time of the year for me. So, you know, we talk about being proactive versus reactive. If you have somebody that knows your patterns is working with you and they know, ⁓ know, anniversary of your father's passing is coming up in about 45 days. Well, now we're going to ratchet things up a little bit so that way you don't go on crisis mode. Or if we know the holidays are tough because ⁓ You don't have your children or you only see your kids part of the time. And you got some downtime there during the holidays. Now we're really going to focus on some accountability and focus on your recovery so that way you don't go into crisis mode. It's really just a community, It's a community of like-minded individuals that have been there, know what it's like to get out. We are human, we have good days, we have bad days, we all support each other. support each other, you and me. It's just a beautiful thing. Because you can't do this by yourself. Life is too difficult by yourself. You a community of like-minded individuals. I cannot stress that enough. And that's what we've created. That's what we envisioned. You know, it's obviously picking up some momentum because a lot of people are seeking out our advice and our help. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, and you know, it's funny because becoming a popular thing for people to have different coaches for for different things. And it's funny because some of the people that I meet that I respect the most and are coaches at super high levels, they're like, yeah, I have a coach, too. So when you recognize that having a coach for some of the things that are important in your life and things that you want to get better at or ⁓ in case, healing and support and you pattern recognition, structure, accountability. a great thing to have someone that can help coach you through that and give you ⁓ that support that you need. So you know definitely reach out to us if you feel like you need just even a little bit of structure ⁓ and a where we can say okay this is what we want you to do this week and then at the end of the week let's get on a call again or let's message with each other throughout the week to keep you accountable. you know, Marc and I are here for that, you know, a hundred percent. So you're listening to this and you've been having those moments where you say, I know what's it's wrong. I know why I do this and I know I need to change. That matters. That awareness is important, but please don't stop there. Ask yourself, what structure do I need now? What is the next right step? What do I need to stop just understanding and start actually practicing? Because awareness may open the door, but action is what helps you walk through it. And if this is something you're tired of trying to figure out alone, definitely reach out to us at Suffer2Tougher. This is the kind of work we help people work through. The doors that you walk through will help you walk through them. Not with shame, not with pressure, but with structure, and a way forward. And as always, you're not broken. You may just be overloaded, but you don't have to stay stuck alone. Thanks for tuning in. Take care.