Latest / Stronger Business Together / E33 Stop Selling Your Hours with Jordan Pockett-Ford
Transcript
- Granger Forson: So is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Jordan Pocket Ford who runs Jo-Poe Nutrition and like every owner he's in that middle of building things, fixing things, growing things that really matters to him. So Jordan, welcome. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Well, Granger, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I'm looking forward to it. Granger Forson: Pleasure, you're most welcome. So, let's go into Act 1 now, the business. So Jordan, in plain English, what does your business do? Jordan Pockett-Ford: So I run a personal training business out of Worcester. And essentially I work mainly with middle-aged women focusing on strength training, which is pretty, pretty topical at the moment, because I believe there was something on the news yesterday or surrounding the benefits of strength training for women and women who get older, especially around the menopause, et cetera. And that's very much what I specialize in. So I run a one-to-one PT and a small group personal training business. and I basically rent my own private studio within a gym and train predominantly middle-aged women but there's a few younger women in there, a few middle-aged men in there that are typically the husbands of those middle-aged women. Granger Forson: So strength training are really important. So we've got an idea now of who you love helping but Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yep. Granger Forson: what are they typically dealing with then? Why do they come knocking on your door? Jordan Pockett-Ford: That's a good question because we were just yesterday in one of the sessions and especially the small group PT sessions, you know, while there's a lot of lifting going on, there's also quite a lot of conversation and talking about current things. And I think for a lot of them, it's understanding their body can't do what it could do maybe 20 years ago. One of my clients, she has recently realized that running Nowadays, now that she's in her mid to late 40s, just is less doable than it was when she was 21. Probably didn't need to warm up. She could just go out and do a 5K. Now it's about making sure that her bone density is good, her muscle mass is good, and that we're just keeping the body strong in general. And I think for a lot of women, especially, yes, there's a cosmetic element. They still want to feel attractive. They still want to feel athletic, sexy, whatever it may be. But I think it is. trying to keep their body strong and understanding that 20, 30 years from where they currently are, maybe when they're 70 or 80, it's reducing the risk of having a fall, hitting their head, catching themselves if they do fall. And I think that's where a lot of them are at now. is a little bit of cosmetics, but it's mainly making sure the body is healthy for years and years to come. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, really important that definitely. I'm in my late 50s. I'm not a woman, but I fully appreciate that. I do strength training every morning specifically. yeah, it's an important. Jordan Pockett-Ford: brilliant, good! do you go to a gym to do that, Granger? Granger Forson: No, do it in my kitchen. I gave up with gyms years ago because they're hot, sweaty, smelly places. Sorry, that's just how I felt. So, but Jordan Pockett-Ford: That was awesome. They, yeah. No, no, they are, they're wrong. Granger Forson: yeah. I appreciate exactly what you're saying. I went on that journey myself about 10 years ago after injuring my knee from doing too much running in my life. Jordan Pockett-Ford: There you go, and do know what? It's one of the most common things that I see, especially with the more middle-aged population, man or woman, is I had a client message me the other day, voice noted me on a Saturday morning, and they were like, I went on a run last night, and I woke up this morning and my knee hurts, and I think I'm gonna stop running. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, no, can appreciate that. While I don't run so much now, well, I don't run at all anymore, I still have a lot Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: more strength than I probably had even back then when I was doing my running because it's an overall body strength that I do rather than just running strength within your lower body, et cetera. Jordan Pockett-Ford: um, Have you noticed one of those things where a realization that you maybe wish you started strength training 20, 30 years ago? Granger Forson: yes. Yes, definitely. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: It's definitely something I should have actually been doing when I did all my running. I should have been doing strength training Jordan Pockett-Ford: Right, yeah, of course, yeah. Granger Forson: alongside my running rather than just all the running that I did. I did some triathlons as well, that Jordan Pockett-Ford: wow. Granger Forson: was my 40s when I then injured my knee. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Wow. Yeah. Granger Forson: So, yeah, I too much together in one time, I think. Anyway, this podcast is not about me, it's about you. So tell me about the business. When did it start? What was that original spark? Jordan Pockett-Ford: Okay, I'm gonna take you way back because there's a whole lore and backstory to this whole thing that I call my work to work life. So in 2018, I started as a strength coach for, and I was employed to do so for a all women's private gym, also in Worcester. And I did that for two years, sort of worked myself up to head coach and I ran the business for my boss during lockdown where, It was a lot easier to run a business because it was just predominantly online, three half an hour sessions a day on zoom or something. So I was doing all the work for him, et cetera, et cetera, which allowed me to build a certain rapport with all the women I was coaching because I was sort of the reliable face that was turning up on a day-to-day basis. And in late 2020, after the second lockdown, my boss folded the business. And as anyone who has ever been made redundant, probably I went into this ultimate panic mode, didn't know what I was going to do with my life, many sleepless nights for about a week. And then I thought, why don't I just take the exact same business model and run it on my terms and adapt it slightly more to how I would run things if I were in charge and I'll give it a year and I'll see what happens. And I sort of reached out to... Probably about 30 women who I'd built a really good rapport with it, this at my other job. And they basically said, yeah, if you're going to do something, we'd love to come with you. Uh, we love you, et cetera, et cetera. So I laid out a sort of schedule, how my week might look when I'd run group sessions and then just fill the rest of my hours with one to ones and sort of overnight. was halted a little bit by the third lockdown in January, 2021, which is when I was due to open. So I was still sort of running the first opening months of my business were all online via zoom. So it wasn't till April 12th, 2021. I was able to open up my doors and at the time I was renting a studio within a dance school. So I just bought a load of gym equipment off of MyRefit online, which are great for basic weightlifting equipment. And I just started running my business from there and it has been. over the course of that time, so what is it, five years now? We celebrated my five-year business anniversary in April with a lot of my clients. I think I started off with 30-something clients, but I'm now, thank you, yeah, I mean, it was one of those weird things that I didn't expect to propel myself into self-employed life as successfully as I did from the off, because I know it's not an easy thing to do, and that was always my worry about being self-employed. But Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: because I built that rapport, I almost felt I was already self-employed for those years that I was employed. And all those years of employment actually was just building to me eventually going out on my own. And I'm now working with about 60 plus people on a weekly basis. Granger Forson: Excellent. Wow, really good. Fantastic growth and brilliant. Jordan Pockett-Ford: So thank you. Yeah, not bad. Granger Forson: Brilliant. You went for it and it's working out Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: well. So maybe tell us about a customer success that you're really proud of. Jordan Pockett-Ford: I have got, and because it's on video, I will also show you my phone to the camera. I had a, and she's one of my clients still to this day, a lovely lady and she'll hate me for shouting her out because she's very, very shy when I talk about her success. Her name is Jan and she, what I'm saying is she weighs 246 pounds. You can convert that to stone. I don't know that calculation off the top of my head. I think it's maybe 20 plus stone and in the time that we worked together from 2024 in April, I think until the following year or maybe 14 months later, she lost a whopping £90. And yeah, so that was her first session with me. And then she did a photo shoot with her family to celebrate her success. And yeah, it's beautiful. She joined me when she was 57 years old and she'd just come off the back of being the biggest she'd ever been. Very, very, very insecure about the way she looked and felt. And again, she won't mind me saying this if she's listening. She struggled to just get out of the chair. without any assistance at that time. We did the very basics. We lifted some weights. We got control of her nutrition and she just started losing body fat. That was without any injections or anything like that, which I think is, I think immediately a question I get asked these days is that person lost weight. Are they on Ozempic? But she did it completely all natural. And yeah, she lost 90 pounds of body fat. Granger Forson: Wow, fantastic. What an amazing story and well done for her, you know, because that's a lot of determination Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes, incredible. Granger Forson: you have to do yourself to do that. We think we need people to help us, which is great, you know, you're great there to motivate Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: us, but we still have to do the work, you know, and that's the reality. That's reality. Jordan Pockett-Ford: 100 % we we had a conversation this morning and she said, know, thank you so much She was doing an exercise. She was doing some inverted rows, which is a bodyweight exercise very difficult If you're not used to doing bodyweight exercises and I said to her you are absolutely incredible What a journey you've been on and she said thanks to you and while I appreciate you know I let my ego inflate itself briefly I appreciate that I've given her the tools to do that, but as I say to her, I am simply the sat nav and you've got to drive the car to get there. Granger Forson: Brilliant. I love that analogy. That's awesome. So every business, people come, people go. How do you go about generating leads of people that may want to then buy your services? Jordan Pockett-Ford: Very, again, another very good question, because I always say to my wife that I don't think I've had the experience of self-employed business that the common person or most commonly would in terms of the generating business has actually come completely from word of mouth. I've never had to pay for marketing. I've never had to pay for ads on social media. I literally, my first ever success story was a client of mine called Jo She lost a similar amount of weight, about 75 pounds. She worked in the local Waitrose ,so every time people went into Waitrose they said, Jo, how have you gone from that to that? And she would say, hey, I see this lad, he's lovely. And then it would snowball from there. And literally, yeah, it's come through notice boards in the local area. People might go, I really need a PT. All my clients will flood their DMs with, my God, I go to this guy, he's wonderful. And ultimately, just having a good relationship with the people I work with has paid off because they all trust me and they just spread my name and that in itself has created leads over the five years. Granger Forson: Fantastic. That's that's really good and referrals are often the best leads of all because they're more likely Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: to convert into sales So yeah brilliant. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, so What what are you aiming for for your business in the next 12 months and why? Jordan Pockett-Ford: That's a very very good question. The next 12 months, think as any business owner does, there's always that panic of, and I do this quite a lot even when things are going wonderful, I go, what if it all ends tomorrow? What if everyone suddenly decides to leave? Which my wife will tell me is a ridiculous thought because that's impossible. But I always have that thought in the back of my head and I'm always thinking of, right, what would my backup plan be? Blah blah blah. I think over the next 12 months it is to... While I'm not necessarily looking for more and more clients, because that sort of tying with the business hurdle we'll speak about later on, while I'm not necessarily looking for more and more clients, I am looking to still give my 100 % to the clients I already work with, while just making more of an effort to put myself out there on social media. think just because things are going well doesn't mean I need to stop advertising myself with social media presence. I guess Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: the goal would be to be more present on social media. Granger Forson: Yeah, excellent. That's really interesting. I'm definitely going to be exploring some of that. So let's move on to Act Two now, your journey becoming a business owner and what you've learned. So running a business, are times we are unique business owners. There aren't many of us. We move Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: in circles where we see lots of ourselves, but actually the reality is we're a very, very small proportion of the population. So, you know, Running business, you've said it already, it gets hard at times, doesn't it? It gets frustrating. What have you learned about yourself and your business when times have got hard? Jordan Pockett-Ford: I would say when times are hard, and I think a good example would maybe been the start of this year, and it's really not a awful problem to go with, but I'd probably say it was significant at the time. We had a lot of things go wrong with the house that we'd recently just bought. They all just seemed to come together all at the same time, which was extremely annoying. Combined with the fact that I'd had a few people leave, And this happens every time one or two people leave. go into spiral mode. think, Oh my God, this is the end of the world. Revenue has gone down. And even though my revenue at the start of the year was way higher than it was five years ago, four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, I always use this analogy of you sort of, as revenue goes up, you hit this, this peak, you go, wow, life is great. It goes down a little bit. And because it's gone down, you panic and even though it's maybe Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: higher than it was years ago, it's still a bit of a drop off. And I think what I've learned about myself in being a business owner is that I am very much an insecure overachiever who is very afraid of failing. And I think I'm very scared of the idea that my business could fail, even though it's been five years and it hasn't, I think I'm very much a catastrophizer. Granger Forson: Hmm interesting. Yes. Yeah, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: and that's that's the reality of all business owners the When Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: we get used to our revenue and when it drops off we start panicking we start worrying about it, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: you know, but That comes down to quite often actually, I talked to my clients is the amount of cash you've got in the bank as in the business bank And because if you've got three months, you've got a little leeway. If you've got six months, you've got a lot of leeway and you can then manage Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yep. Granger Forson: those ups and downs a lot easier. It's when we're cash in hand and we're very close to the mark all the time, then we feel all those effects. So yeah, definitely, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Exactly. Yeah. Granger Forson: definitely. Fantastic. Yes. I know that feeling well. So Jordan Pockett-Ford: Hahaha Granger Forson: making decisions in our business sometimes, you know, changes what we're doing. you know, what's maybe changed the trajectory of your business? Jordan Pockett-Ford: that's very good. I would say when I started off and specifically probably in the first two years of business, it was very much a get as many clients as I can. More clients equals more revenue, blah, blah. I think as the years have gone on, probably in the last one or two years, I'm now more concerned about while revenue is important, the general enjoyment about the people I'm working with, I have become more selective. It's not a case of taken on business for the sake of taking on business. So for example, two years ago, I had a client come to me. They only could do the most unsociable hours possible. They were a care worker who I really wanted to help because they had like a great story of why they wanted to get fit. It was just a, really wanted to coach this person, but they presented to me their schedule and it was, can do Monday at 9.30 PM, Wednesday at 5 AM. times that I never work. And I was like, right, okay. Revenue would be go up by X amount, which is a good reason to take this person on. They've seemed really nice. They'd be easy to coach, but then the negative was that, my God, I'm going to do these ridiculous hours just for this extra bit of money, essentially. And I did it for Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: about two months. And I think we both sort of came to a conclusion like, this isn't working for me. Do you actually want to train at nine 30 at night anyway? and then we sort of ended the relationship on really good terms. And I think, yeah, I'm more hesitant now to absolutely destroy my body and my brain for the sake of a bit of extra money. Granger Forson: Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, no, I totally understand that one. And that decision you make about the balance between your own life and the Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: money that you can bring in. So, yeah, fantastic. Yeah. So you've mentioned it already. So what would you do if you lost all of your leads tomorrow? Jordan Pockett-Ford: It's a fantastic question. I legitimately think and maybe this is not the correct answer for a business based podcast. I probably take about a month or two off and enjoy about eight weeks of freedom because I think since I've never had a significant period of time off, I never had a gap year, which is really common these days. I sort of went from school, sixth form, degree. graduated straight into full-time work. And since then I've just sort of, and then become a business owner. And as any business owner knows, taking holidays, one of the guiltiest things you can do. So I'd probably say I'd take eight weeks to just relax a little bit before looking for something. I don't want to say a normal job, but essentially I don't know whether I do what I do now or I... explore a different career entirely just because. Granger Forson: Hmm, interesting. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, only because I feel like I'm on this very, very nice positive successful wave of momentum. And I feel like if that was all suddenly come crashing down, I'd have a very negative relationship with this career path because of that. And I'd want to completely Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: separate myself and go and do something else. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Yeah, I really got a different type of answer than I've had before to that question. So brilliant. that's that's that's Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, I always say to my wife, I'm like, I'll just go be a postman because I can walk all day, I can put headphones in, I can talk to people. It'll be lovely. Granger Forson: So what did you used to sell maybe when you first set up and what do you sell now? Jordan Pockett-Ford: I'd say when I first set up, it was, I was just selling the idea of getting stronger and prioritizing strength train to pretty much everyone and anyone. And because of the clientele that I now have, I'd say now it's specifically targeted at, hey, if you're in your forties and fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, whatever it may be, I've got two clients that are in their seventies and still strength training, which is incredible. I'd say I'd specifically target more individuals that are busy parents, 40 plus, who specifically women over men normally, not that I don't coach men, but I think women find the gym a more daunting place than men. So I'd say, yeah, 40 women over the age of 40 who wanna be fitter, stronger, healthier, and probably feel a little bit more confident than they currently are because as... anyone knows who's got anyone who's gone through the menopause or something like that. It's a very difficult time for women. I think gaining some confidence back is not only a great thing physically, but probably mentally as well. Granger Forson: Interesting. very good. And I think it's interesting how you've evolved who your target market is and how you help Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: them rather than just everybody that can come through the door. mean, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: yeah, we've talked a little bit about it. know, things get, you know, there's a lot of things to do when you're running your own business. know, times can get short. You know, what still goes? wrong occasionally now when you get under time pressure within your business. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Oh, that is good. I would say things that typically would go, I mean, these probably, these are probably small problems to have, but I'd say to me and what I do on a database, they maybe feel bigger than they actually are. But one example would be the hesitancy to take people on because for example, the group PT program I've run, I run a total of 17 sessions per week where my group clients play a pay a monthly membership and they can book on to X amount of sessions depending on what membership they buy. So say if someone's doing three sessions a week, they have a choice of 17 sessions within a week to book on. I do groups of one to six, which keeps that sort of semi-private small group feel to it. And I'd say the problem I would have is when every Tom Dick and Harry decides that they wanna do a 5.15 PM slot and I can only coach six people at a time. And everyone's like, but I want to come to 5.15. And the problem is, is how do you then take on more people when everyone wants to do sort of the early evening time slot, not the 7.15 PM, which some consider the graveyard shift. So. Granger Forson: Right, yes, yes. And one of things that we talk about when I'm working with my clients is there are things in the business that we've added over time and things we had complexity. Have you removed anything from your business that has allowed to give you any due back? Jordan Pockett-Ford: yeah, absolutely. that's, that's something that I probably physically and mentally needed about two years ago. So it was, I it was November of 2024. So my general schedule used to be a really long day on a Monday. So I'd be out the house for 11 hours, say a Tuesday was a bit of a shorter day where I'd only go in in the evening. Wednesday was the same as Monday. Friday was the same as Monday. So sort of long 11 hour days. And then I'd have Thursdays off completely, but do a few hours on a Saturday morning. And it got to the point where, especially because I was about to get married, sort of six months later, one of my clients actually turned around to me and said, George, why do you work a Saturday? That just seems like a terrible idea. And the group session that I was running on a Saturday, only one person was coming at the time. And I thought to myself, you know what? Yeah, I haven't had a Saturday off since. 2017 because I've always just worked a Saturday, even for my boss. And I thought, why don't I just work a Thursday morning, which I did this morning, and I'll just go back to having a weekend off like most normal people do. And that's what I did. I moved all my workload to elsewhere in the week. So Monday, Wednesday, Fridays are my really long days as they are now. Tuesdays I'll do about six hours. and Thursday on the morning I'll go in for three hours. So I've only worked three hours today and then I'll have the weekend off. So that small change in my schedule probably gave me a, de-aged me pretty well because I was really struggling with Saturday mornings and getting up early to go in on a Saturday morning and actually having a weekend to have a day, not only to myself but with my wife was very important for my work life balance. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Yeah, no, really important finding that work-life balance, finding that Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: time to do the important things in our lives. Now business, we talked about, gets really busy at times. What do you do to stay healthy, both for yourself and the business when things get really busy? Jordan Pockett-Ford: that's probably something I've really thought about the last month or two. So I'm currently the busiest I've ever been from a work standpoint and therefore obviously a revenue standpoint and therefore just physical energy being a little bit harder to balance out, mental energy being something I've really put more effort and time into to make sure that I am not burning out. So from a physical standpoint, just generally staying healthy and it is the most important thing for me. And I do think it's important as a coach or trainer to practice what you preach. So I definitely do that from a, not only, guess, a marketing standpoint, but I think feel like I do from a cosmetic perspective need to look somewhat presentable physically, I hope. But mainly because just being healthy in general is going to allow me to work these longer hours. don't think if I... eight McDonald's and did 1000 steps a day that I'd have the physical or mental capacity to do what I do. But because I do stay healthy and I strength train four times a week, I run one of those being a football match twice a week. And then I try and do about 11,000 steps every single day, along with eating plenty of protein. So physically I can coach day in, day out, hour after hour, back to back, et cetera. But mentally to stay sharp and things like that. actually, and these are what these have, I do a lot of gaming to decompress. Yeah, my wife would describe Granger Forson: Interesting, interesting. Jordan Pockett-Ford: me as a cozy gamer, which is essentially my downtime comes from putting on a game on my PlayStation and having a podcast on in the background to listen to. Granger Forson: Awesome, awesome. Hi myself. Jordan Pockett-Ford: And that is sort of my meditation. Granger Forson: Awesome. mean for myself I like playing board games. I go out on a Tuesday night and play board games. yeah. Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: brilliant. Do you go to like a pub or something to do that? Granger Forson: I go to a local board gaming group here in Gloucester on a Tuesday night. So yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So. Jordan Pockett-Ford: fantastic. Yeah, I think it's so important to have those hobbies outside of work that aren't work related. Granger Forson: It is, is. definitely, definitely. So, Act 3, your hurdle. So what have you brought for our conversation today? Jordan Pockett-Ford: So going back to what we were just saying a minute ago about, you know, the physical energy and the mental capacity, the, I'd say the hurdle that I have circling around in my mind would be over the next one, two, three years. How do I expand the business when the business is extremely personable? So everyone comes for me. So it's, it's hard for me to go, or I'll take someone on to do these additional hours so I can work less. and therefore take on more work myself. So it's expanding the business without expanding my already busy schedule, I guess. Granger Forson: Yes. So what do you mean by expansion first of all? we talking about do you want to grow a business that has staff, has premises or are we just talking about growing the revenue as you do without doing more basically? Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, I think it's the latter. It's a case of how do I not even necessarily and while revenue is extremely important, that's a big part of this hurdle. It's more of a case of if I've got say a lot of people always inquiring and I'm constantly going, sorry, I've got no room at the moment. We're fully booked. It's how do I stop saying no to those people? I'm easily enough that I can then continue to generate more income and revenue. Granger Forson: So I mean, one of the first statements I make for you there thinking is there is nothing wrong with having a waiting list. And a waiting Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes! Granger Forson: list is quite a powerful thing as well, you know, because you can say, I've Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: got a waiting list and typically it's six weeks or it's Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: a month. Yeah. So having a waiting list is important thing because it can actually build its own momentum in its own right. As long as you Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: don't... Put on a waiting list and forget about them. You need a little nurturing Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Granger Forson: activity that keeps in contact with them, know, through some sort of little maybe automation in a CRM or something that can just keep them nurtured and send them little videos, little helps, tips, et cetera, building that momentum ready for when you do have a space and you can take people on that. yeah, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Brilliant. Granger Forson: waiting lists are brilliant. Very few businesses ever have waiting lists because we never get that big. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Granger Forson: is very useful thing that you can achieve. So, okay, so let's talk about where you are today. Typically, if we want to building revenue, we talk about lifetime value. Okay, so there's a very important formula within marketing. It's called lifetime value divided by customer acquisition cost. Okay, and we want to get that ratio as high as possible. Greater than three, greater than six, and probably in a one-to-one type situation you want to 12 or more. Okay, now your Jordan Pockett-Ford: Okay. Granger Forson: acquisition cost at the moment is very low because you're not doing much marketing, you're not doing a lot of putting things out there. So at the moment it's gonna be really high. But if you want to grow as a business and take on staff, then you would have to really think about your customer acquisition cost as well. But let's not worry about that bit. Let's look at the top bit, lifetime value. So you talked about having different levels that people pay for. If you typically look at your customers today, how much across the lifetime that they're with you? How long do they stay with you typically? And what are you sort of generating? You may not want to give me specific numbers, but sort of are you generating in terms of value as in the money that they give you? Jordan Pockett-Ford: So in terms of length of time that clients will typically stay with me, I'd say a good 85 to 90 % of my current clients have been with me since 2021. So Granger Forson: Okay, brilliant. Jordan Pockett-Ford: my turnover rate is very low. I'd probably say I lose maybe three clients per year max. I Granger Forson: Okay, fantastic, okay. Jordan Pockett-Ford: think I lost maybe two or three clients this year and I've... And that's normally weirdly so as well, considering I run a fitness business that often happens in January. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: I don't know if it's a new year's resolution of, man, I need to save some money. I'm going to sack off my PT. But it Granger Forson: Ha ha ha ha. Jordan Pockett-Ford: often is in January. But after that, it's rare that I tend to lose people. I won't go into revenue because I don't know if any of my clients will listen to this. I feel a little bit self-conscious about that sometimes. Granger Forson: Yeah, no. Yeah, no, that's fine. That's fine. And you talked about different levels. So you charge people a different amount depending on how many activities they do. Okay. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Yes. So, obviously the two services are run are one-to-one and group PT. don't mind disclosing these figures because my clients would know these anyway. so typically a one-to-one session would be, if it's a one-off, it's sort of 55 to 60 pounds. Then if a one-to-one client is doing, say, I have like one one-to-one client who's doing three ones ones a week. that's a monthly membership payment of 600 pound a month. So one-to-one sessions are around sort of the 50 to 60 pound mark. And then the group PT memberships are somewhere in the region of 160 pounds per month, which would entitle them to three group PT sessions per week. Granger Forson: Okay, okay. So let's talk about pricing then, because there are a number of ways that you can increase your lifetime value for you. So I've increasing your revenue, therefore you don't need to do as much work. One is pricing, one is selling more, okay? And one is maybe something that we will pick on in thought in a moment, bit out there. So let's talk about pricing. When did you last put your prices up? Jordan Pockett-Ford: Oh, good question. It's a very relevant topic at the moment. 2024, which means I am definitely due a increase this year, which me and my wife have spoke about because she handles the account side of things for me. That is definitely on the cards. Unfortunately, because we got married last year, my wonderful clients or contributed a significant amount of funds to our honeymoon. And I felt very guilty about the prospect of increasing prices because of that. last year there wasn't one. Granger Forson: Okay, okay. what we're about at the moment is how can you generate more revenue without having to do more work? So the only way you can do Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yep. Yes. Granger Forson: that, first of all, is to put your prices up. And putting Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Granger Forson: prices up is one of these strange things, okay? If you put, here's a number for you, if you put 10%, if you put your prices up by 10%, okay? On your bottom line you'll increase your straight away profit by 30%. So that means you could lose 30 % of your customers and still make Jordan Pockett-Ford: But yeah. Granger Forson: the same profit as you did before. And the same Jordan Pockett-Ford: I see. Granger Forson: as if you put your prices down, it works in the negative way. So never put your prices down. So putting Jordan Pockett-Ford: No. Granger Forson: pricing up is really important. And the thing about pricing is pricing is in our heads. It's not in our clients' heads. What clients see is the value, yes? They're paying for that and they'll decide when too much is too much. So putting your prices up continuously, you will find a point where people then say, this is a bit too expensive for me. If one or two people does that, that's fine. You've got other people that may want to join. Okay. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Granger Forson: If you've got that reputation of being able to achieve what you do with your clients, you've got that reputation of being a fantastic person to go and work with. That is massive to leverage off because that's what you're doing and achieving. You've got very small churn as in clients leaving you so basically you're too cheap. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. No, which is something I probably say I'm aware of. And I think one negative of the business being as personable as it is, is that there is that guilt there about increasing prices. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I understand that we all feel it because Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: we feel it in here. Not actually the reality of it. The reality is that's what drives the business. So if you want to drive Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: your lifetime value, the first thing is you've got to put prices up and you go to prices up every year and you keep putting it up Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: by big amounts until people start saying, that's that. And I don't mean one person. OK. And when people start leaving, they may say it's too expensive, but they never leave. If they don't leave. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: then it's not too expensive. Yeah. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: So it's one way that you can then increase your lifetime value without having to take on more clients. The second Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, love that. Granger Forson: way they're talked about is selling more. So in Alex Hormozzi's book, $100 million offers, he's a gym guy, he built his business around gym and he's now built lots of other Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes, yes. Granger Forson: things. He talks about the offers that you can then add on top of your standard services. So what... Other things could you charge your clients for that would add value to them? Don't do it because you're just trying to make money. Do it money because Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: you're trying to add value. What extra things could you do? Jordan Pockett-Ford: I think maybe, so I already have this check-in process where, you know, I'll touch base with them each week, just a little WhatsApp message, see how the week's going, if they need help with anything right now. I maybe think adding something in like, if any of them require a one-to-one check-in call, I think would be a handy thing for some of them to maybe have. That's just off the top of my head. And again, yeah, I think that from a service point of view, that would tie in maybe nicely with what some of them might need. Granger Forson: So what extra services can you do? mean, in Alex's book, because we're talking about gyms, it's quite Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: a great conversation. So he built nutrition guides. And so Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: he sells nutrition guides. He builds how to cook nutritional meals. So Jordan Pockett-Ford: Right? Granger Forson: he does menu guides. And these are things that you go, crikey, that's going to take. You build it once, and then you offer it from then onwards. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Right. I see. Yeah. Granger Forson: He offers, so in his book he talks about sitting down and thinking about all the ways that you could do it, because you could say, well I could take you shopping, but I'll charge you 500 pounds for that, yeah, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: to teach you what you could do. I could come into your home and rearrange your cupboards for you and take out all that junk. I charge 500 pounds for that, yeah. And these are things that it's not about everybody will buy. It's a few people will buy now and then that generates revenue that's significantly more than you would have had before, but it doesn't add much time because then the shopping bit would take too much time. So you'd want to scale that back to maybe creating Jordan Pockett-Ford: Right. Granger Forson: tailored shopping lists, et cetera, from that. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Okay. Granger Forson: Yeah. Then there's things like, what do do when you go home? Do they have their own routines? So could you sell? branded equipment that helps them to Jordan Pockett-Ford: Right. Granger Forson: do a little routine at home. Could you on-sell an advanced routine at home? Could you sell nutritional supplements and things? So Jordan Pockett-Ford: Right. Granger Forson: it's really sitting down and thinking about how can you add more value to your clients so they achieve more themselves and then you charge for that as extra services. It's not something that everybody would buy but it's something that proportion buy therefore you generate more revenue per client. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, no, and like you said, doesn't require too much of my own time on top of what I'm already doing. Granger Forson: Absolutely, it takes you that time initially to build it, build that structure, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Granger Forson: absolutely the first time, but after that, no, it doesn't add any more time to yours. So then the third thing is, which we're talking about, is how you would, when somebody joins you, how you would link those things together in order to generate the opportunity of making money. So you can on a regular basis update people of what your new offers are and the officer structure. But it's when people turn up, could you do an upsell, a downsell, and then a reoccurring revenue sell. So you've already done that reoccurring revenue, Jordan Pockett-Ford: I see. Yeah. Granger Forson: but it's linking these things together that add value to people when they turn up. again, in Alex's book, he talks about this idea of when you rent a car. So you turn up and they say, We just happened to have a larger car available. Would you like a larger car today? Oh, they're thinking about me. Yeah. So they've done an upgrade. And then you go, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yup. Granger Forson: would you like the premium insurance package? And you go, oh, no, not really. So that means you say, the standard one is okay. So I've already then signed you up to the standard one, even though you may not have actually realized that you now pay extra for that standard one. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: Okay, and then they're looking to well if you join our members club you then get all these benefits over time shall I sign you up to the members club? So it's not doing it in a deceiving way it's about trying to maximize the client and thinking about what they could do with and how you could maximize their health by offering those more services as they join to do that upsell downsell and continuity sell. So it's a way of then not just the offer that you do, it's linking those services together that then bring more benefit to them. And again, not everybody signs up, nobody says yes to those things, but the more people that do, that's more revenue that you do without having to spend more time in the gym with each of those individuals. So based on those things, what one thing would you then do probably next week? What would be your first experiment? Jordan Pockett-Ford: I think the thing of going around and reorganizing their cupboards is actually something that I think not only my clients would be up for me doing, and therefore I'd feel very comfortable experimenting it with. But I actually do think it'd be something that'd be very beneficial to them as well. So I think from a practical application, that one sort of, when you said it, sort of stood out to me because I was like, I could see that being something my clients want me to do. One of my clients said to me yesterday, Yeah, it's all well and good, but you're not there living with me, telling me what to eat, you know? So that sort Granger Forson: Yes. Jordan Pockett-Ford: of comes together quite nicely with what you just said and what you pitched. think from an experimental point of view, that might be a nice thing to immediately try. Granger Forson: And you can now fit that in in your quiet periods when there's no, Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes, exactly. Granger Forson: you yeah, you can fit it into those sort of strange, strange times maybe. And Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes, exactly. Granger Forson: then even then you can extend that into nutritional guides and things, know, all these things you build once, et cetera, doing that. Brilliant. And I would seriously also challenge you to think about your prices as well. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Yes. Granger Forson: Brilliant, fantastic. Jordan, that was really good. Some really thoughts there and yeah, really good experiment to go and try. So let's do our wrap up and close now. So what did you hear yourself today that maybe surprised you? Jordan Pockett-Ford: I think hearing you pitch those ideas based off of Hormozzi's book made me realize that there is a little bit of untapped potential with the services that I currently offer. I think based on the relationship I have with my current clients, I think there is certainly more things there that can be tapped into that I maybe was, maybe it's a nerve thing or not wanting to come across like a... a salesman, I don't know what maybe stopped me from doing those things, but sort of made me realize that sometimes I need to think a little bit more with my head and less with my heart when it comes to the business. Granger Forson: But think about your heart because that's important Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yes. Granger Forson: because that's about how you're adding value to them and then Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah. Granger Forson: thinking with your head is then how do you generate that to make more value for you, more money for you that allows you then to have the same amount of clients but have more revenue. So brilliant. And Jordan Pockett-Ford: Yeah, I'd say that. Granger Forson: finally, Jordan, how can people find out more about you and follow your journey? Jordan Pockett-Ford: so I am mainly social media dominant on Instagram. I do a little bit of TikTok here and there. I know that's the new thing, but I am on Instagram and my Instagram handle is team. Jo PO, which is J O P O underscore X underscore strong gal club, which is the, the slogan for my group PT program, which is strong gal club, obviously promoting, women's strength training. Granger Forson: Awesome. Well Jordan, thank you so much for being open and honest. I know our listeners will get an awful lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Jordan Pockett-Ford: Granger, thank you for having me on the podcast because I haven't been on a podcast in a long time. So I appreciate you having me on and it was good to put the headset on again and speak to a wider audience. Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, then please like, comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience hasn't done that yet. And these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. If you want to join the conversation as a guest or if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle then reach out to us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com Now, go make this week really successful and we'll see you next time. Cheers!