Latest / WiseNoise: The Creative Practice Podcast / WN08: Jonny Mowat - Generalism is a Superpower
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hello, welcome, welcome back to Wise Noise. Returning for the second I almost said season there, but I'm going with series ⁓ more traditional term, second series of Wise Noise, the podcast about creative practice. I have to get away from these noisy cars in the background. I'm Pierce O'Hallorin. I am a graphic designer running my own studio in a Boyne in Aberdeenshire. and I am out for a little walk. ⁓ lunchtime walk. I it's I've changed offices since the last podcast, so I'm over the other side of town. Slightly more urban, but there is like a nice little path here that leads to like a lovely woodlands bit. So I'm trekking out to get some ⁓ nice nature vibes. at lunch and record the intro for this podcast. If you have if you don't know what the podcast is about, then go back, check out the other episodes. We've had c some amazing interviews with Chris Wilson, James Barnard, Fred McLeod, loads in that first run ⁓ to catch up on if this is your first time listening to this. We have ⁓ I for the second series I I need to tell you that we have Shop items. ⁓ so a way of you paying for this audio would be nice and going into wise love shop is the studio shop website and I've got t t shirts and cups there with some wise noise artwork on it. So if you're listening to this and you go, Well, Pierce has taken time out from actually feeding his children to ⁓ edit and record and get all this together I might as well buy him a wi ⁓ buy a t shirt off him and ⁓ hopefully keep me in some potato waffles for another week. Yeah, so wise love.shop. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes is the moral of that tale. Johnny Mowit is my guest in this episode. ⁓ Johnny is one of those we I start off by telling him ⁓ how he was been slightly on my radar ⁓ but never actually conversed. and we both have a love of stand up comedy that we kinda geek out about at the end so if you last all the way to the end it almost becomes its own sort of like ⁓ different podcast about comedy which is you know creative practice in itself so relevant. but yeah Johnny's super talented. I'm o of it's it's one of those like ⁓ it's been admiring from afar but it's also slightly envious in terms of like, you know, when you think, ⁓ yeah I've kinda got like ⁓ I've got ⁓ plenty of styles. I've mastered a few few of the crafts here and then you look over and Johnny's just like knocking it out of park in terms of like graphic design, illustration, f filmmaking, writing, directing. and yeah, such an amazing creative mind and and just a generally from funny guy 'cause You know even the like his LinkedIn posts, you know, where that's meant to be all like super serious business talk, biz talk. And ⁓ yeah, Johnny would just put up basically I think he put up like picture diagrams, ⁓ illustrations that he made in his local pub quiz as part of his LinkedIn posts. I was getting people to guess the answers. Which ⁓ I I just kinda commented I don't think you're doing LinkedIn right. But yeah, I love that slightly ⁓ irreverent ⁓ take and someone who doesn't take their career ⁓ so seriously. And yeah. I I'm gonna I'm gonna hurry up and shut up because there's plenty in the podcast and listening to Johnny is far more enriching than my wafflings. And yeah. Here's episode eight with Johnny Mowers. Hope you enjoy. Wise of the shop, give me some money. like the echo doesn't tell me to do ⁓ bad things then I think I'm I'll be alright. yeah. Is it I I could see Doggy in the background there. Who's we have to introduce Doggy. speaker-1: Yeah. Well it was Maggie. She never does that, really. Maggie ⁓ the miniature snouser. Yeah, no, I just think she knew I was ⁓ gonna be on camera. speaker-0: She's she's just Yeah. She's like, I d I didn't speak to my agent, you know. I'm not ⁓ I didn't si I didn't sign up for this public appearance. speaker-1: Come on. This way. Come on. ⁓ no, she got fully went down the stairs. Damn it. speaker-0: Okay. ⁓ well. ⁓ I scared her off with my schizophrenia talk, I think. ⁓ Yes yeah, yeah. Are you on a standing desk? That's cool. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, my thought I get very very slug sluggish. speaker-0: But stand for the whole for the whole recording. speaker-1: Yeah. Come on. You know. Just energy. I'm just ⁓ I g I I get I get way too sluggish if I just sit at my desk and I'm speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so man. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, who's hoping it comes across? speaker-0: Yeah, I've got a standing desk myself where I can like alternate. It's like motorized so I can go up or down, but like I don't think there's for for the benefit of the recording I'll think I'll remain seated. ⁓ yeah. But it's good for the posture. ⁓ yeah, it's going up speaker-1: This kinda feels like the end of feels like the end of Greece when it goes up. speaker-0: cameras just panning away. So like w w when we finished recording I'll just ⁓ you l you just raise it up and I'll be just like, you know I'll roll I'll roll the credits then. speaker-1: Yeah. I'll come d I'll go down. speaker-0: Yeah. So, ⁓ Johnny Mowit. I think like I remember if I if I give ⁓ this is our first time properly chatting together, I think. ⁓ although like I've in my kind of orbit in terms of like spying you on the Scottish creative scene. And I think if I was trying to think back of when you first came to my attention, I think you got an internship at f ⁓ Frey Tag Anderson and I thought that's a pretty sweet. like gig for someone and then and the and then you popped up and I was like, ⁓ this guy must be good and then ⁓ then you kind of proved that by getting a job at O Street and I like, ⁓ my god, O Street, so he's got a gig at All Street, they're amazing and then I thought like, ⁓ yeah, he's cool And then then I look again and it's like ⁓ you've done illustrations for like ⁓ a brewery in the USA and I was like, ⁓ cla well he's just gone illustr a gra gone from graphic design, he's an illustrator now and he's gonna target the brewery industry. Right. I could see the path he's on now, that's obviously it. And then I look over again and it's like, ⁓ no, he's he's actually gone off writing, directing short films ⁓ yeah, a w award winning short films now. And I'm like, okay, Johnny f like calm down is my ⁓ my advice. Just calm down. So I don't know if my first question is, ⁓ does Johnny Mowit know who the real Johnny Mowit is? speaker-1: Mate. Can't be asking me that. It's speaker-0: That that's that I've gone heavy straight away. speaker-1: I mean listen, I I'll have been the I've I've got a six month old baby now. ⁓ so that's the latest that's the latest thing that'll send you into an existential spiral. Yeah speaker-0: Right, okay. Yeah, but the does that help you keep up speaker-1: I think I have landed on I think I've landed on the thing I'm into. Right. I think it the reason yeah. I think so. I mean I need to. I need to just make a you kinda just have to make a decision at some point. No, I'm very ⁓ All my fingers and many pies are all they can all like I found a pie that can hold many fingers, let's say. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah to make it Yeah, okay, you've kind of found ⁓ well in in the filmmaking world because you know, I do have ⁓ pal another pal who does like he basically does the graphic design for film sets as well. So like there's a in that kind of f film industry world you can do the y y there's a chance to use all those sc strings to your bow, you know. speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, that's kinda where it's been. Like the r directing has been like I found the b yeah, best part of directing is just been getting to be involved and everything without actually having to like being relied on to execute it to as high as possible. So it's like the involvement I love. Uhhuh. And then but I l also it's way better when someone better than you then takes it and finishes it. That's what I've found to be so I think I don't know if I can go back from that. That's pretty addictive. But maybe in ten years I'll be a novelist or something kinda. Yeah. speaker-0: So, Yeah, yeah. But ⁓ well it feels as though you've kind of like ⁓ tried all the pies you wanted to try anyway, at least. I think you've I don't think there's a a creative path that you're curious about. You seem as seem to have kind of like right I've gone off and like ⁓ got your hands dirty and a few things, you know. speaker-1: Yeah, I think I think I mean if we're really to be fully my theory behind it basically is I think I'm just cracking breaking down the shell of and then being like, I just want to be a little artist boy. I think it's what I think that is kinda what it is, 'cause I think graphic design has a commercial application and it's like Yeah, yeah. It's a job and it's ki i it's technical and that ticked a bunch of my like ticked a bunch of the boxes that made me think it was worthwhile. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. And it's more vocationally speaker-1: Or like even slightly sensible. Yeah. Yeah, like I think I've just been brought up in a very sensible household. speaker-0: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: I guess I'm just being it's scary letting the your kind of artsy silly side win over in the world of trying to make money. Yeah. But I do think everything I've gone more towards has just been like more and more expressive. And also feels more like art because it's the art that I consume the most, like film and TV is what I consume the most. So it started to feel more like speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ this is lining up like these things are lining up instead of just like that's my work life and that's my other life. speaker-0: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more in tune with speaker-1: That I yeah. speaker-0: But you you mentioned there in terms of it was it was interesting when you're directing, you said you actually kinda like other people to kind of step in and take control. I mean like some people are a bit more dictatorial and fascistic, but you kinda like ⁓ that that that people kind of like ⁓ coming in with your sort of vision and taking it to a better place kind of vibe. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean you do kinda get to be if you're nice to people, I think you get away with being you're doing the same thing as a fascist person would be doing, but just you're can they don't really realise that you're lording 'cause you do have a lot of power as a director. So as long as you're not lording it over people, you can still get the same have control over the end result, but I do like having control over the end result, but part of that control is getting someone who I know is better than me doing their job and then it's just like I guess the one thing you don't have control over is how good you think it can be because you've you can only do so much yourself. That's I think that's a good place to like surpass your own expectations. Which is yeah exciting compared to working on your own when you kind of you hate everything that you do at least in the middle part of most projects. speaker-0: Yeah, no absolutely. I'm kind of envious of that in a weird way because there is a lot of times where like the whole show is on just my shoulders type of thing and I kinda do at times miss being part of a team and you know, I I especially in the film and production side, like I I really got stuck into the ⁓ podcast of Breaking Bad where It was basically like the whole sort of writers team and Vince Gilligan and all that. It was basically them chatting for an hour about each episode. So, you know, I would go off and watch the episode. I'd watch the episode and then listen to the podcast like, you know, because it was like full of spoilers or whatever. So but it was a nice kind of debrief after you watched it. And I had like what it made ⁓ it made me give it a a deeper appreciation of the amount of production and all these little things that I probably didn't notice the first time. And all all these little details that are considered. But you do I one of the main things like Vince Gilligan will say himself, like, you know, if it was left in my hands that you know, the show would have probably ran from like two seasons tops or whatever like that, you know? And the fact that he was just able to kind of like trust other writers to kind of take it on. And he even those like little jobs of editing and all that, you just realise that. You kinda think like editing is like just this kind of chopping and pasting kind of job, it's but it's like s it's super important in the process, you know? speaker-1: For sure. Yeah, it's I've been getting ⁓ over the past five, ⁓ probably like coming up to eight years or so. I've been just gradually getting more interested in the film and T V stuff. Mainly with the idea of like doing graphic design in that world. And then the more I got into it the more I realized like the thing that I have enjoyed through all the kind of different different visual stuff I've done. It's just like Jokes and the story. Like and to do those, you don't really get to do much of either of those if you're gonna be doing graphics and film compared to if you're gonna just try and make one yourself. ⁓ so I think that's been a nice thing to land on as well after all this. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. G getting back to that first kind of graphic design thing and applying it in the film world. You were working on ⁓ Midgeys, a sort of Scottish horror film recently. speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ huh, I was, yeah. I was Broughton as graphic designer for that. my friend Urte was doing the production design. She's ⁓ Urte Rustikiti, very talented production designer. but it was a great opportunity 'cause it was like small kind of self funded feature film. I mean a small feature film still big, but it was like a lot of people in roles that were speaker-0: Okay, great. speaker-1: People were kinda getting to step up into those roles and ⁓ I was one of them, so that was great. ⁓ and it was a real nice energy because of that. Everyone's like you know, they're here here to prove themselves and nobody had massive egos or anything. It was great. speaker-0: Yeah, brilliant when you get a get good get a good team like that. ⁓ yeah, 'cause I saw ⁓ well I was a big fan of her work anyway, but I saw Annie Atkins at the I and T L talks and ⁓ yeah, she was f fascinating and she she's obviously kind of got like i if you asked me what a dream gig would be, it would be like a graphic designer for Wes Anderson films and she she kinda has that dream job. ⁓ but her talk was kind of fascinating in terms of like ⁓ You know, 'cause I I I I it's b especially if it's like a period piece or a set piece, like she was talking about like this kind of term retro, when you think of like fifties, sixties, seventies, you sort of have these ⁓ misconstrued notions of what design was like back then, just because it's kinda you know, if you think of the seventies or what it's like funky, big funky patterns and then she just started showing like actual tin cans and ⁓ you know, products that were on display and it's really kind of rough and chunky and just like a little bit misaligned, you know. Yeah. And ⁓ and I as she said, like, you know, one of the tragedies of like that line of work is the fact that like you're actually not meant to notice it, you know. The less it jars with the actual film. Like if if if it stands out or if it sticks out too much, then you're not doing your job. You have to it actually has to just all blend into the actual scene. So the less you notice the work the better, you know? speaker-1: I know, it's an interesting one for the ego of it all. Mm-hmm. But the Midge one was great because it's a horror comedy and there was I actually got to like do some like prop gags which was so up my street where it's like there's a reveal of a thing and there's like a joke hidden in that thing and then it's part of the scene and it goes away. So it was ⁓ a lot of stupid brand names and stuff which was a hoot. speaker-0: Yeah. So so you got involved in other things besides the actual design work then? In that kind of small production kind of thing? speaker-1: Well, it was more like the jokes the director was a big ⁓ design nerd as well and it was he me and him gonna worked on like spoof labels. So like the actual jokes were baked into the designs. And I I don't know why it's taken me so long to find a job where someone dislikes me do graphic design like sarcastically. It's so fun. Like compared to compared to having to do it seriously, it's like You know, when you do a seri when you're doing graphic design for like a brewery and they're like, We need to stand out. Yeah, yeah. And then you do it for a film and it's like it doesn't need to stand out. You're like, ⁓ this is the best. This is the the best gig ever. speaker-0: Yeah man. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. When you have to like please stakeholders with your design, it just absolutely takes all the fun out of it, you know. And ⁓ sarcasm is ⁓ a a a very underused emotion in graphic design. It's all it's all a speaker-1: And so many of us are so sarcastic. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, exactly. When you meet graphic designers in real life we're like super sarcastic, but then like we have to be all earnest on ⁓ in public on our work profiles. And ⁓ but yeah man speaker-1: No. Yeah. It's yo Young Jerks. Young jerks are a great design agency to follow if you like sarcastic designers. speaker-0: Yeah man, yeah, they yeah, absolutely. Why not have fun with it? Yeah, they're really good. Let's have a look at a bit of your film work. So you ⁓ I did it a what I'll do is because it's like a a film, essentially, ⁓ what I'll do is I'll like I'll play it with audio just straight through so that ⁓ like for the audio only people they can just kind of listen to it but I'll drop a link to the actual advert if people who are listening just ⁓ via audio want to click and have a look at it. But ⁓ the o I think the audio and the writing is really funny in and of itself without the visuals. But I'll just let it play because obviously for the ⁓ YouTubers it'll be good to actually see the full video. The 2026 World Cup. Usually you don't even notice it's off, but this time, Scotland's in it! For at least 11 days, your ear canals will be so clogged. No over-the-counter coffee butt will dislodge it. The bands are coming. From Ducat Breed. Picture this. You're out on a date. When her app profile said her special interest was the Jags, he thought she must be well vaccinated. No, the Jags like this. Before things get prippy, let a pint of Dukit to the talk. Famous for that reading young gate up. You used to go navy blue. Did you remember? Saturday morning and the paper's finishing up downstairs. He's here on overtime after you smashed his edging. And you bet he's adding another zero to the bill. Smooth things over with a fully factor. Courtesy of you. Every slur brings you closer to Pungitra. Friends don't need to know, you haven't a clue about VAR. Just look how happy it makes them. VuPall Ida from Duke Bruin. Just get it over with. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I just ⁓ but yeah man, that was ⁓ Yeah, it was brilliant man. Makes me laugh every time. ⁓ so you directed this, what was your how did you get this gig and what how was your approach to it? speaker-1: So I've worked with Harry at Duco I worked I did a label for him ⁓ a couple of years ago and he's just a very great supporter of like local artists. Every beer he does he gets like a different artist to do an artwork. ⁓ and he I I knew he had you know, he's got a good heart in the world of business. He's very art first and kind of ⁓ Yeah, microbrewery artisanal approach. So I basically when I graduated my masters in film, I had him at the top of my list of like, right, I'll do something with him and we'll make it work. Like basically make something beyond the budget that ⁓ company that size would be able to provide. ⁓ and so yeah, kind of one is kind of a bit for me, a bit for him. We just kind of got the production together, after I sent him a pitch deck with the idea of ⁓ yeah, a lagger that would make you be able to talk about football, which is something that I really wish existed. I'm I'm a real hater of football in the past. And I'm trying to soften my hatred because my brother loves it. I love my brother. My best friends love it. I love my best friends. I Yeah, yeah. I just can't stand when they talk about football. It's so boring. And The skateboarding picking skateboarding in school means that you kind of have to pick a side and basically. But I'm growing up, I'm thirty two, I'm trying to get over this. So I thought, wouldn't it be great if there was a a elixir that would let me get into it 'cause I just can't do it. It was it was really fun because it was like it was super quick, like the writing was super quick. And I don't know, sometimes when a project is like we need to make 'cause basically the beer it had a time limit on it 'cause of the World Cup. So sometimes when something is kind of like unreasonably soon, you can really just pull some pull some good stuff out. Like and stuff that you kinda don't overthink. ⁓ so I find that really satisfying because I still kinda have this feeling of like, ⁓ wow, we actually pulled that off. Which other things that take a long longer, you're kind of less forgiving. But ⁓ Yeah, the football thing was funny, especially to me, because the brewery is so like crafty. That kind of archetype of like a craftier guy is kind of the perfect person to be to, you know, embody this kind of annoying part of myself. speaker-0: Yeah. It was great man and there's so many good touches like you know, d we're seeing it just now, the cotton bud transitioning to the World Cup is just like that that was such a great device. So did ya so do you actually have to put a little World Cup on a stick and wave it in front of the camera, is that how that that that came about? speaker-1: So we basically I storyboarded that and I reached out to the ⁓ the D P Lewis. I sent him my storyboard and I was like, just let me know if there's anything that's too mental in there. Kind of being like, I'll put all my mental ideas in there. One of them being the w the wax the wax cup. And then he just was like, Nah, it looks good, man and I was like, I almost don't think you've read it. Like it there's some s weird stuff in there. But it turns out that he's just speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: like a ⁓ amazingly up for trying mad stuff. So Yeah, yeah, yeah. The earwax was a sculpture that I made out of a peanut bar with a toothpick and one of my mustache hairs. speaker-0: Amazing. I'm gonna have to scroll back and have a look while you're talking about that. ⁓ Nice. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Bean of butter and one of your hairs as the cotton bud with wax on it. speaker-1: Yes. And then Silhouette was all that was such just done in Blender. speaker-0: Right, okay, yeah, you just kinda got like a just a three D World Cup kind of thing and speaker-1: There's some sweet free models out there that we just got and made it look nice and obscured. But no, I'm very happy with how it worked. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that that's a r really lovely touch and I'm also like ⁓ a big fan of the peep show point of view kind of camera vo devices going on. I love to see that going on in a film. speaker-1: Yeah, that was fun. Bryce Bryce, the main actor, was very ⁓ he was very good at acting just like pathetic. It was great. speaker-0: Pathetic. He does a good pathetic. speaker-1: The biggest problem we had on set was ⁓ Lewis the D P kept shaking the camera 'cause he was laughing. I was like, bruh, you gotta stop speaker-0: Yeah, well that's a that's a that's a good problem to have, I think. yeah it ⁓ yeah, w what pub was that as well? I'm not familiar with I've been like well since I've been in Glasgow, but somewhere down Finiston, I think, yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, Jukes Bar, my favorite pub in the world. I do a pub quiz there, so I kind of was able to pull some favors. speaker-0: ⁓ nice man. Can I can I take over the bar for an hour or so and film this? speaker-1: Yes. Although we ha we had to film we had to film the bit where everyone runs in and shouts in front of punters. That was super embarrassing. Because I was I was acting in it as well. And it was genuinely was like it felt like doing the talent show at school or something. It was awful. It was awful. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. When the general public are ⁓ gazing upon you it's like ⁓ yeah, super awkward man. speaker-1: I'm like day drinkers. Day drinkers on like a Thursday. You know, describe. speaker-0: Yeah man. ⁓ but yeah, it's brilliant. And ⁓ if you want to go there's so so many other great videos of ⁓ that you've done and JohnnyMowitt dot co dot uk is your ⁓ internet HQ with all your stuff on there. ⁓ yeah, we've just we've only just picked out one to chat about, but there's plenty more on there. ⁓ right, let's go and do ⁓ The yeah, the Bingo Wheel of Wisdom, Johnny. speaker-1: Please, yeah, this sounds great. speaker-0: Yeah, I had to go out I ha this is the a new bingo wheel for this ⁓ series. ⁓ the the last bingo wheel actually got damaged. I I've moved studio since and it was broken. And ⁓ I also when I was cleaning up the old studio, ⁓ you could just hear ping ping ping ping, all these bingo balls going up into the vacuum cleaner. ⁓ and I was like there that's where they've gone so the I completely destroyed the set. ⁓ I mean I'll just show that it's working and it's got balls on there because ⁓ one of the other issues is that That audio is well that's actually a lot quieter than the old one. But there was complaints that the last time I was doing the bingo wheel live that the audio was like, ⁓ Jesus, that's too much speaker-1: It's quite it's quite ⁓ shrill. speaker-0: The Yeah, the old one had lights on it anyway. ⁓ which this is a little bit more low key. ⁓ it felt a bit too bling to be honest for this ⁓ podcast. for for geez for me. speaker-1: I like bingo balls in a bingo balls in a vacuum cleaner is like quite a cultural. Almost like one of those like catch money machines where they're like flying around. speaker-0: I'm gonna I'm gonna see a new brewery ⁓ and it's gonna be bingo based and you're gonna have this transition to like vacuum cleaner. And I'll be like, ⁓ he stole my he stole my idea. ⁓ always working, always working, always picking up inspiration. so if you don't know the bingo wheel of wisdom, I've basically I pull out random number. I got ninety questions here. various questions Design related, not design related, sometimes a little bit too personal, some of the questions. But yeah, we'll just go I mean that there's no start, middle, or end. It just basically once I feel that the segment is running out of gas essentially, then we just park it. Right. Okay, see how we go. So first number out of the Bingo Wheel of Wisdom is forty four Dream Client. Question mark. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean my first thought was adult swim. I mean they're just the kings of free float animation. But in terms like here I'd probably like or in the world of T V, the Lonely Island have a production company and everything they make is amazing. ⁓ one day in my life I ever. Yeah, Andy Sandberg's ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: Comedy trio. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, cool, yeah. That's a little bit more. speaker-1: Where everything they ⁓ they touch is beautiful. Well, you say that, but that is the d working with them would be amazing. speaker-0: Plus. ⁓ okay, the next on the road, Unlucky for Sum is thirteen. What tracks are on your playlist of the year? speaker-1: Well let me pull that up. speaker-0: Wha wh what tunes are you digging in twenty twenty six? speaker-1: Well, I mean, they don't have to be from this year, do they? speaker-0: Well yeah, well anything you're digging right now basically. speaker-1: Right now, okay, interesting. I mean I've been I became a vinyl scumbag. Christmas I got ⁓ our first record player and I've been trying to physicalise everything. So John pr the John Prime self titled album has been getting a lot of play. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, he's like yeah, yeah, there was ⁓ a guy back in my hometown and he was obsessed with John Prime. He was like ⁓ he was learning to play guitar and he was this like it motivated him, he loved him so much, it would motivated him to actually learn the guitar. So he was just like and he just was like John Prime John Prime's the king. He's the king, he just like absolutely loved him. Is it like ⁓ cut ⁓ he's a bit like bluesy country stuff? speaker-1: It's like good country, like good country. It's a g a country a couple country notches away from Bob Dylan, I would say. I mean towards towards country away from Bob Dylan. That's my sweet spot. speaker-0: Yeah, he doesn't put the c he doesn't put the cunt in country. speaker-1: No well, unless you're talking Glasgow. speaker-0: He's a good country. speaker-1: Yes, yes. speaker-0: Twenty three, if Melania Trump was a font, what font would she be? speaker-1: I mean nothing behind the eyes, it's gotta be calibri. speaker-0: Yeah. I was thinking like ⁓ like curls, you know, which which like to the to the general public looks like a pretty font but it's actually evil and awful inside. Anyway, that's the end of that one. Good thought exercise, yeah. I've got a few more of those, like I've got different ⁓ celebrities and to name them as fonts, but yeah, so some more controversial than others. Thirty five. How many steps did you do today? speaker-1: Probably like we're talking sub a thousand speaker-0: Yeah, I well you're you're a bab a baby ⁓ Dante was ⁓ newborn, so exercise kinda goes out the window. It's all about like ⁓ speaker-1: Well, all my exercise comes a night. speaker-0: Yeah, w pacing pacing the floor. You do you do about five thousand steps a night. Yeah, ⁓ y you would be tempted underneath your because I've seen you could get these like ⁓ little treadmills for under a standing desk. And I was like, if I buy that, that is that I am officially the most middle aged designer out there if I'm buying like a little s treadmill under my walking desk. speaker-1: That the bad thing is I was like that sounds like a great idea. I didn't know that was a thing. I mean if you want my ⁓ I I just got a royal blue chore jacket in the mail. That's middle age designer right there. Don't worry about it. speaker-0: Yeah yeah. ⁓ That's middle aged MAD. getting mad with it. Middle aged with it. Yeah. ⁓ I I'm scribbling that down 'cause there's a whole like fashion brand that I I can make out of ⁓ A D. ⁓ three, light mode or dark mode? speaker-1: Light mode for life. speaker-0: ⁓ we're gonna have a bit of conflict 'cause I'm dark mode as fuck, man. I don't know if it's my aging eyes, but yeah, I just can't be ars with light mode. ⁓ speaker-1: I mean I've only had one migraine at my desk and that was years ago, so so far so good. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm getting new glasses and I invested in the thirty pounds for the blue light filter. I'm like, I actually need to protect my eyes from how much screen abuse that they're getting. And this is weird, right? 'Cause the next number I pulled out is thirty, which was the question of what's your daily average screen time. I'm like, so I've I've had this on last last series and just didn't want to answer it out of pure shame. speaker-1: I mean I I never track it, I never look. But I mean it's gotta be like at least ten hours 'cause I'm doing eight hours at work and I love screens. So I'm either gaming, watching T V or on my phone, so it's gotta be at least ten. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. ⁓ right. I c I kinda have a couple more buttons. speaker-1: I mean my top tip is don't don't look. Just don't look at your screen time. That's what speaker-0: Don't look at your screen time. Ignorance is bliss in that respect. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: Right. I think we've a couple of more balls in us. ⁓ seventy eight, ⁓ your best holiday destination. ⁓ speaker-1: Oaxaca in Mexico. speaker-0: Whoa. I i is it y so you've actually been there? ⁓ I meant to say, not just the dream holidays they're No no no Wahaka. speaker-1: ⁓ It was clo much closer when we lived in Canada for a couple of years. So we took advantage. Unbelievable. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. W whereabout is Wahacka in Mexico. speaker-1: Top to go would be Tokyo. It is like Mexico City, it's like just south of Mexico City, like just over this I think just over the skinny bit. Not great geography, but it's a fascinating place because loads of fauna and animals like travel through that skinny bit over the like thousands of millions of years ago, so it's got loads of diverse ⁓ food and animals and it's dope. speaker-0: Right, okay. So it's a a pretty unique kind of ⁓ geo ⁓ geological ⁓ place, environment. speaker-1: Just not w what I put on the top of my list for a holiday location, but it didn't speaker-0: I d did you actually is it one of those where you were actually sorta touring Mexico and then came across that that place turned out to be like the most amazing place, or did you actually want to go because you knew about it? speaker-1: So I'd heard about it 'cause I lots watch way too much food YouTube. And there's a lot of like Oaxaca has some of the best food in the world. So we did a week there and then we did a week in Cancun and all inclusive that I hated so much and I do not know why we did that. But I felt like speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Like the first week was amazing, second was shy. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, I've done the Cancun All Inclusives. Like my my cousin, they they stay in Canada and she was getting married, so I went out and ⁓ yeah, you do realise that like the the same way that Spain here like ⁓ Mexico is the sort of Spa you know, that's Canadians and that's their sort of like tenerife, let's say, and Cancun is just becomes like that or that all inclusive 'cause I like, ⁓ Mexico, this should be amazing. But you're sort of walled in and ⁓ you're sort of like just speaker-1: I would have been good for a wedding if I had I saw other people but it was just me and Beth and then I'm basically all I'm gonna say I was rolling rolling the dice on street food every day in Oaxaca, no problems, first day in Cancun at the hotel, diarrhea for nine days. That's all I'm gonna say. speaker-0: Let's ⁓ let's move on. on that note. He's mentioned the D word, let's move on. Okay, final question to do list. ⁓ would you are you a paper or app guy for your to do list? speaker-1: app. Reminders app. Nothing nothing crazy. I might maybe I should get paper, but then I just will forget. I I I walk around and speak into Siri being like, Siri, remind me to do this tomorrow. That's the only way I'd get stuff done. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, I'm a I'm a bit of a mixture. I have all those kind of like ⁓ project management like reminders and notifications and all that, but I'll still come in like at day and and I have a little pad of to do list and I'll have to actually write most of the actual focus stuff about 'cause I just won't I I I I think it's like another distraction. If I have like to do's on my phone then I'm gonna pick it up and then I'll be an hour and a half later down a rin Instagram. thing and I'll like shite. So if I keep it on paper, it's like less distraction. So I'm a bit of a mix myself. speaker-1: I thought about getting a whiteboard for that. But interesting. Maybe I'll think about that. speaker-0: Yeah, I need to get a whiteboard in here. I've kinda got that sort of background area as t sort of sticking loads of crap up plus calendars. But yeah, whiteboard. That's the next I'm gonna get a stepping machine for under my standing desk and a whiteboard and then that's properly and I'm gonna get a chore jacket just like you. And I'm gonna fucking boss the middle in speaker-1: That's some diary of a CEO stuff. Yeah. You'll be so successful. speaker-0: Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. yeah, so the next bit is the final bit where we just have the heavy dessert menu. ⁓ I sent you over the menu for the ⁓ I I'm not even gonna find it. It's basically it's the same subjects as last year. 'Cause I thought Johnny, I was like, Do you know what? It'll be a really good proper LinkedIn post if I post out industry topics and I'll get people to comment on it. And then once people are once I get about a hundred comments, everybody's gonna see my profile, everybody's gonna be ⁓ interested. And I got like one comment and so I didn't change it. So essentially it's the same exact not not enough rage bait. I just I I I should have just like talked about like ⁓ I'm pro AI or something like that, and I probably would have like re it would have re speaker-1: Just openly shit on someone you know's work. speaker-0: Yeah, totally, totally. but it's the same ⁓ subjects as last year. I'll just read them out ⁓ for the benefit of anybody who's ⁓ coming f cold or fresh. So how to price your work, the AI elephant in the room, the red flags of a nightmare client, specialist vs generalist, self-promotion without the ick, avoiding burnout, your design and how to sell it, the things they never tell you about in design courses. So Johnny, which which w what are you selecting from the dessert menu? speaker-1: I will have to do number four, specialist versus generalist. speaker-0: Okay, cool. Do you have a a rant on this? Or or so because I I think we were touching on it at the start in terms of like how many different creative lanes you've kind of swerved around and your problems with niching. So I think that's we've already kind of like had a peek into your ⁓ that you're pro generalist. speaker-1: Yes, I am pro generalist. I'm basically I think generalism is becoming more and more of a thing and I I feel vindicated in that way, but I also the more I go into it the more jealous I get of people who got away with being specialists. So I do think the question of specialist versus generalist is a little bit it's al it's quite circumstantial and it's almost like it's n it's kind of feels like it's over Over raw as a question. So that's also part of my rant, is that we talk about it too much. speaker-0: That my ⁓ that my ⁓ menu is shit is basically your speaker-1: No, no. Listen. Your menu reflects the design culture at large. You've done a great job, Pierce. But I do think speaker-0: So haven't updated it for anyway. But yeah, sorry, go on. speaker-1: I I was so in my head about being a generalist for so long and like it was such a big thing at like design festivals and talks and stuff. And then like I just realized that people ha you kinda have to be a generalist until you're not, you know. You you you could only follow what c makes you a living and also ⁓ that you enjoy. So I feel like there there's there's not one without the other, you know. I mean but I may I'm a generalist just now 'cause I'm a director of films and that's like involved in lots of different areas. But then to some people that I'm a director of films can that might mean that they just like are very focused on the acting side of things and come from an acting background and then specified with ⁓ directing actors. So it's kinda like it just depends. Like I could become more and more like that as I go on and then I might like specialism for life maybe but I don't know. I don't that's kind of far in the distance for me and I feel like most people who say they were specialists have just gone away with it by them by that point. And that's who we hear from at these design talks and all these kinds of things. No I mean do you get get what I'm saying? I love speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm I I'm generalist as well in terms of like ⁓ look well we I I we had Chris Wilson was on one of my first guests on the podcast and he kind of said like I'm a specialist in being a generalist and I think that gets to the nub of what you're saying in terms of it being circumstantial, you know. ⁓ I'm a I'm a specialist because not many people have had all know all these things and how to kind of traverse these kind of different disciplines in the way that you do. And ⁓ yeah, yeah. ⁓ I there I I get what you I think that's what you're trying to say is like, you know, ⁓ because you're so generalist and because you've kind of ma mastered so many different skills that when it comes to actually like having that vision of how things will kind of relate to each other across disciplines, then that's actually quite specialist. You're good you become so generous that you that you're quite specialist in in your approach. speaker-1: Well it's also like it comes back around to the like like big picture, like meaning of life creative platitudes of like you are you, there's only one you, that whole thing. You know, you're a cocktail of all these different things. Yeah, that's you have to believe that that's worth something or you might as well give up no. But it's ⁓ it's interesting doing like if I was to then get gigs From like say that ad we looked at, if I was to get gigs doing ninety second ads for breweries that are really fun, weird, and have one gross joke in each of them, and I would happily take that job if anyone's listening. Then I would basically I'd probably become a specialist of that particular thing, but the reality is that that only happens for a very select few people. Yeah. And a lot of it is just like right place, right time. So I I do think I think generalism is amazing until you don't need it anymore. speaker-0: Yeah, and I I do I do know what you mean in terms of like ⁓ kinda getting that break within a particular industry and it's almost that specialism is sort of set for you, you know, as in like you kind of do ⁓ w one good job early on or or your success is often sort of related to like just happening to meet somebody who becomes early on that becomes very successful or something and you sort of piggyback you write at like a I gotta be U The guy who did all the Pixies albums. ⁓ I'm having a brain fail. Oliver ⁓ Vaughan Oliver. Yeah, Vaughn Oliver, yeah. Totally blank there. But like, you know, I used to love like the Pixies album artwork and ⁓ I went to a design talk of his and now he was like pre he was kind of the last generation, was like pe pre sort of Photoshop so everything and you can see the in his artwork it's all slightly collaged and overlaid and text is cut out and everything like it's proper like you know letra set and you know to shooting it all in one kind of shot on camera and photography is a big big part of his work, you know, creative photography you'd use that and but but so amazing amazing body of work and an amazing kind of like ⁓ you know but but what happened was the fact that he had just graduated at the same time he was like down the pub and like his mate was like ⁓ I'm setting up a record company called four A D which obviously for A D went on then to actually sign Pixies, sign Cocto twins, you know, so you know, Vaughan Oliver could have like, you know, i the ⁓ in in another universe, Vaughn Oliver is probably like doing, you know, ⁓ he's off doing logos for like ⁓ various companies and he might be doing some sort of photography career for a bit and he might have done like, you know, so he had all these kind of t talents. But because he like met that one person and they kind of like right he was just fed all these amazing briefs by all these like fantastic like alternative artists from the eighties that he was able to build up this body of work and and time to create. So like, you know so they're having that success earlier on. ⁓ but yeah, there's it seems as though he's quite specialist or like But but you know, he was he was given that he was very lucky early on to give that sort of like ⁓ train ⁓ body of work where he could professionally ⁓ and make a living off ⁓ boiling all that down into i into one sort of visual language. speaker-1: I think yeah, I think like I mean I think that career is also like if that is what you want and you really like if you have found something you're like this is what I want to do but people aren't paying for it yet then I do I feel like you gotta follow that 'cause that means like if if you still want to do it and no one's paying for it, then you really must be into that. And that's like they're probably the only true specialists of people who are like they are doing it despite the current kind of return, I guess. And then when people like that break through and start to mi I love that sort of thing. So I'm not saying it's like, you know, it can't exist, but in terms of surviving and and just getting by in the world of work and having a living, I think. yeah, generalism's great ⁓ for doing that. And also it can be really fun. Like I I've been started enjoying graphic design way more now that I've started doing films because Yeah, I can say there it's having two things to do. is just frees you up. Like you kind of can ⁓ yeah, enjoy each one individually more. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I I'm into that as well. Like I couldn't like I I've I've discussed this a few times on the podcast before, but in terms of marketing and trying to sell yourself, like obviously s ⁓ it it is good advice to tell any creative to specialize and you know, hone in on this one thing you're really good at because obviously when you go to sell that to people, th like so ⁓ what So if you're a book cover designer there's this guy Irish guy Jack Smith and I'm kind of obsessed with his book covers. ⁓ he did I read the book recently, Profit Song by Paul Lynch which won a Booker Prize. That's one of his books. But you kinda go onto his website and it is just like a wall of these amazing book covers. So like so if he approaches like a publisher or any sort of publishing house, you know, it's bam, it's like, wow, let's get this guy on the phone. Whereas in if I sort of like 'cause I'd love to do a bo I'd love to do a book cover design. And if I was to send over my kind of like hotchpotch of branding illustration, you know, and if I was just to s we're like, okay, thanks thanks for thanks for getting in touch, Pierce, but we'll we'll maybe s you know, and I know I could do like a brilliant job of cover design, but like there there's nothing to prove that like I could ⁓ for this specialist field that I could do that. So I do think the challenge is that like generalism, I love it and it's probably like suits my brain, my sort of like completely scatty brain more to be s ⁓ a a a ⁓ a generalist and have that fun day to day because I do think I would get bored if it was like right, I'm just a logo ⁓ that's all I do is logos. ⁓ but then I'd be like, ⁓ I just really wanna I wanna have fun with a big editorial layout, I wanna do a big messy poster, I want to do like a bit of animation, I wanna You know, all these other parts of me would just would just be like kind of like ⁓ un underfed in that respect. speaker-1: For sure. I think it's like it's like definitely there's two as with everything, there's two worlds. There's reality, which is my life, my current career anyway. I mean, I think it's a particularly scattered part of my career with this kind of like change gradual change, but it's like a total patchwork of all these different things. But then my go like going forward, I am gonna try and make my website more and more directing gigs than ⁓ illustration and animation stuff. That's just what my goal is, is just to do more of that. But it is just that way of like there's just that there's a there's a layer of bullshit you have to put on everything in business and commerce and all that. And I just it just really riles me up when nobody talks about how the specialist versus generalist thing is quite full of that. ⁓ so speaker-0: But yeah. Yeah. Well it's it sounds as though you found your specialism. Like, you know, as in I I was kinda on your website and No, it like I know it's like it's an amazing kind of like ⁓ it's an amazing ⁓ broad spectrum of like, you know, creative stuff. ⁓ and but I do think that i in terms of like film industry, I do think anybody I think if you come on there, as you said, ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, I wrote the question. speaker-0: people who are looking to get like a really kind of funny advert done or like a really cool ⁓ bit of graphic design for your kind of film studio or film set. I think that y within the film industry I think you've c kind of ⁓ cornered that or like, you know, you're speaking to those kind of people, you know, fight i in your in your own set and you're happy with that. speaker-1: No, thanks for saying that. Yeah, I think I think I've like definitely a light has gone off in the last few years and ⁓ it's g gonna be exciting to see where where exactly it settles. It's all kind of things are kind of floating down and I'm still to figure out where everything's landing, but so far it's been very fun. speaker-0: Great man, yeah. Well it's been absolutely smashing to speak to you finally, Johnny. I th I think we we met briefly at INTL but we haven't actually ⁓ spoken, so that was ⁓ great. But yeah, next time ⁓ I'm sure we'll meet IRL sometime soon. speaker-1: Sure, we'll we'll have to do a in in person ⁓ meeting of the Chris Thorburn fan club. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Chris Thorbin, stand up comedian. Yeah, I'm a massive fan of his ⁓ like we used to do ⁓ Chunks Night, which is I don't know if it's still happening. I think the guy Eamon who was running Still going, yeah, yeah. ⁓ man, that was like the best fun. 'Cause I like I I I I did stand up comedy and it's a bit like it's a bit like ⁓ there's a parallel with ⁓ that serious design work where you kinda have to go out and speaker-1: It's still good. speaker-0: You know, with with stand up you have to kinda go out and impress like a Friday night audience and you'll like live or die by like, you know, and you kind of and almost like that way of like corporate graphic design, like you the more kind of like observational and the more kind of like, what about who here's on Facebook or you know, d just if you if you do safe kind of material, the more likely that those weekend crowds are gonna laugh. But the more alternative and kind of crazy or like out there you go, the more you're gonna die on your chuff. So like when chunks came along, so ch chok it was like honestly, I just kinda needed it. It I I was so disillusioned with doing I didn't wanna I stopped doing stand up comedy because of like the kind of pressure to kinda go out and especially at the weekends to make people laugh that kind of way. ⁓ where you where where I fo found myself just actually writing stuff that I wasn't even a fan of, but I just wanted the people to laugh. And then Chunks came along. So Chunks was like a set up a night where like you just have like a minute or so just to go up and do anything. You have to do anything you wanted, but it couldn't be stand up, so it could be a sketch, it could be a character act, it could be a scene. And ⁓ and and a and it was like this total like cabaret this really weird cabaret night and there was loads of on running jokes as well, and some people would come back and do the same characters. You know, ⁓ I just loved it man, I so loved it. And Chris would just sma every time he got up he he just smashed it. He he just smashed it man. speaker-1: I I've been to one and I've been meaning to go again. But ⁓ I do I absolutely love that as well. Well I think that's why I was originally I feel like I you were on my radar 'cause I knew you were a designer who had done stand up. And 'cause I I have done stand up in different spatterings over the years and I just find it fascinating that ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, okay. speaker-1: When people have the similar the you know, those two Venn diagrams that rarely meet, it's they've they've they cross over. ⁓ it's different skill sets for sure. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, no, so it's like I've always ⁓ yeah I said goodbye about five minutes ago, we're still here. But like it's ⁓ it's fine. But I I I think like, you know, when I was in school it was like like ⁓ writing ⁓ like creative writing was well I I I always thought I I might be a journalist or something and that's something where I could take ⁓ be be b ⁓ get a vocational job in terms of writing. But it ended up kind of like falling down on the arty vocational side of graphic design. But it like writing and like, you know, that love of language and I th I do think like ⁓ that's actually like a really good important part of ha bringing that into like sort of design where you can ⁓ play around with Especially when it when it comes to typography and stuff or like you can actually have like visual jokes going on g in in your work, you know, so you can have that sort of ⁓ that kind of comedy element. So yeah, stand up is a different discipline, man. It's but yeah, it's it's quite ⁓ how how did you get on with your stand up gigs? speaker-1: So bad. So bad. It's like the worst the worst year of my life with one amazing red raw set. That's how I would describe it. Just put myself th just I don't know I like I've been back to it. It was twenty nineteen, I did a full year of it and I tried and then ⁓ thank goodness for the pandemic. But then I ⁓ I came back to it Yeah. It's like, ⁓ no, I can't go out and get heckled at a speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: three audience member gig. ⁓ no. yeah. It was I've been back to it like I went back to it a bit last year before I had my baby and ⁓ I I enjoyed it more then, but still still no greater success. But I just think being older I was a bit less damaged by it all. ⁓ yeah, I love I love I still love dipping my toe back in it and meeting people who do it because some of the most creatively open folk I've met. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ huh. Yeah, yeah. No Yeah, yeah. I do I do that's that is the one thing I mi I miss about not living in Glasgow is th those ⁓ kind of random ⁓ back of a pub kind of comedy gigs that you could get, you know. And yeah, they're they're the best man. But yeah, so you had a good red raw, did you say? It was a it was a good red raw set. Red Raw speaker-1: Well absolutely I think. Sorry, yeah, I did I did a Red Ross ⁓ at the stand, which is like it's such a good open mic that you can't gasp up. It's so overbooked. I got to do it once and it was like every joke just went the way that I thought they should go instead of all the other open mics I've done. And it was that high that you're just like, ⁓ this is amazing. This is yeah I'm now gonna do this for another six months because of this one gig. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ it's so mad because like because like yeah the the Red Raw crowd are really good. It's a bit I ⁓ and as I was saying ⁓ as I was saying as I was saying there because it's a bit of a student night, because it's a cheap night to get into, it's like two quid at the door, it's a little bit of a student night, it's on a Tuesday as well. So in converse to what I was saying there about the weekend crowds where if you're they're expecting sort of Kevin Bridges at a weekend crowd. But the actual I found that Red Raw the little bit more oddball and alternative you are, they're actually you get a better reception at Red Raw. And speaker-1: Yeah, they are much more forgiving. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Much more forgiving. And I I do think there's a sorta they they set the tone really nicely in terms of like like everybody just ha trying here guys, okay? So So we even get like people kind of forcing some sympathy laughs when you're actually dying on your chuffed in terms of like 'cause everybody's well aware that this is like really stressful. ⁓ but but it was ⁓ yeah. I I I gotta I got one last thing and it kind of gives the example of like comedy to me. There's like Paul Curry. Have you ever heard of Paul Curry? No. speaker-1: But yeah, she didn't have him at the fringe. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's fantastic, yeah. Yeah, long hair, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like he comes from a cloning background. So like ⁓ a lot of his stuff is just like kind of these weird sketches and like ⁓ a lot of it's like he d he did a whole show where he didn't actually talk ⁓ during the show, like it was all kind of verbal and like action stuff. But the i ⁓ back in the day there was like this forum that we were on, all the Scottish comedians and it blew like the Tuesday night it like blew up. It was like People were like, ⁓ Paul Curry absolutely destroyed Red Raw. He like the headliner act, and I'd never heard of him. And everybody there, like, all the comics that were there going like that was the best Red Raw headline set I've ever seen. He was amazing. So and I meant to I was like, ⁓ I g he was there all week, like so he's playing Red Raw the Tuesday and he was back on the Wednesday, the Thursday, the Friday. So I actually went to see him like I was like, ⁓ I gotta go down and see this guy. So I went to see him on the Friday and he was opening up. And it was totally like when I went in there, it was all sort of like ladies ⁓ sort of drinking wine with high heels at the back kind of thing. And I was like, this is this is more of the weekend crowd, like you know, he was coming out to this and he bombed, man. He bombed. And I was like, you could see people kind of like, you know, the the the the host Susan Callman, she came out, she was doing like the you know, really good host and stuff, but it was a lot of like, You know that time when you were down to swim and bass and stuff and everybody's laughing and then he comes out doing these like, you know, these comedy sketches and everybody's just like it was it was me and ⁓ some other comedy buddies were down the back and we were the only ones laughing and you actually had people turning around in their seat going like, What are you laughing at? And the guy's like I think he's brilliant, he's a genius, but it just kind of like portrayed that sort of difference between sort of like that alternative student y kind of Red Raw night, but you go into your Friday and Saturday and it's like, Come on, where's the observational comedy? But ⁓ anyway I I speaker-1: But yeah. The ⁓ we we could talk for hours. We could talk for speaker-0: Yeah. We'll just need to we need to meet up with ⁓ at the next chunks. I'll make a date to come down to the next chunks and we'll make a date. speaker-1: Legit. Let me know if you did. speaker-0: Cool man. I'm gonna split this up and do that last bit I'm gonna do is like a a a new comedy review podcast. But yeah. One episode. Anyway man. One episode, yeah. Cheers man, great to speak to you. ⁓ speaker-1: No, thanks for having me. Good chatting. Yeah. speaker-0: That was Johnny Mower. How good was he? Yeah, just great chat. I need to just meet up with him on a more social level 'cause I feel as though we were just starting to geek out about comedy and there was plenty more juice in that melon. ⁓ yeah, my thanks to Johnny. You can check him out, all his good stuff at JohnnyMowit.co dot UK at J Mowit stuff is the handle on the insta. But yeah, well worth a follow. Absolutely excellent output. And yeah, I'm just coming out to the end because I think I forgot to say at the top of the introduction to ⁓ do the liking and subscribing and the following and leaving a review. ⁓ I am always interested. ⁓ I've never received any proper feedback. Everybody's been ⁓ yeah, it's great and like which is fine. I'm totally like, you know, scratch my ego away all day long, no bother. But I am Interested if there's certain things that you think could be done better if there's certain things from your end as a listener 'cause I'm just too close my nose is too close to the grindstone here. That I need some fresh perspective would be very helpful. And yeah, don't forget to check out the sweet new wise noise merch at wise love dot shop. And yeah, do all the lovely algorithmic st things. Give me a review. ⁓ anything you want. yeah. You know, abusive I mean constructive criticism or abusive I don't care. I'm just I'm basically desperate for attention these days, to be brutally honest. But yeah, ⁓ see you episode nine. I will get that out whenever I get time in between all the projects that are brimming over the top of my desk. Thanks for your lovely lobes so far. God bless.