Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / How to Elevate Your Hookups

Transcript

How to Elevate Your Hookups · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:04
  Speaker B: Welcome to Gaming Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gamin's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host, Matt Lansdel, and joining me today is my lovely co host, Michael Diorio.
• 0:21
  Speaker A: Hello.
• 0:22
  Speaker B: Okay. Today we are talking about how to elevate your hookups and create more meaningful and lasting intimacy in your hookups. Okay. Why I chose this topic. Okay, I want to. I want to preface. I want to go back about 10 years from now. I was in a relationship that was. I was. I was actually quite struggling to bring emotion and sex into the same equation. So it was a very sexual oriented relationship. We were open, and then I was moving into hookup culture from that place. And the thought of bringing intimacy into sex gave me the ick. And it wasn't until I started doing a lot of work on, like, vulnerability, learning how to show up, learning how to reveal myself, probably healing a lot of shame that I had and internalized homophobia. It wasn't until I did some of that work that I was able to start bringing intimacy in and allowing men to see me in a sexual context, but also adding in, like, deeper conversations and maybe that even turns into dating and these sorts of things. So I started to think, I'm like, you know, I wanted to create an episode that can support the concept of hookup culture, because I don't think it's bad. I actually think casual sex can also be conscious.
• 1:31
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:31
  Speaker B: And by conscious, I mean that there's a deep awareness of intention, there's a deep awareness of desire. You're able to talk about it, there's transparency. Right. I think hookup culture can actually be good. But I do think that in our culture that there is a lot of unconscious consumption, which is like just using people's bodies for a release or not being honest about intention, taking advantage of people, people not listening to their body, and putting themselves in situations that are maybe not as nourishing as they be. So as me as a demisexual, and I haven't always been a demisexual, I know what it's like to have hookup culture and be in that place of just desiring and carnally wanting someone's body. But I also understand what it's like to have cultivated a deeper connection to myself, which means I can have a deeper connection to other people. Right. So I want to. I want to talk about this. So I want to really just unpack how we can elevate the hookup culture. In the gay, in the gay community. So what I want you as the listener, viewer, to get out of this episode is just more awareness into your relationship with sex and intimacy, why you do it, what you get from it. And I want, really, what I really want is to see if there's any untapped potential in this area of your life.
• 2:48
  Speaker A: Right?
• 2:49
  Speaker B: Like, is there desire to have more than just hookups or are hookups just exactly what you're, what you're wanting in life right now? So, um, this is not about. Right. Wrong. This is not about shaming. This is not about anything. I just want to have a deeper conversation about this stuff. So, so let's just unpack pros and cons of hookup culture. Because I know that there, there is pros and there are cons. So I'm curious for you, Michael, what would you say that the pros and cons are?
• 3:10
  Speaker A: This is a great episode because I love hookups and I love hookup culture and, and I think so much of my growth has come from that. So it's really exciting for me. The pros, I'll speak personally. It has allowed me to come to more confidence in my body and what I want, in what I need. It has allowed me to meet people for sure. A lot of my hookups have turned into dating. Some of my hiccups have turned into friendships. Some of my hiccups have turned into like a friend with benefits, which is a nice, consistent, you know, when the sex is good, it's nice to just have one person to kind of rely on, even if it's not a relationship. It has allowed me to understand all the different permutations of relationships and different types. Like we just said, there's friends with benefits, there's fuck buddies, there's situationships, there's all kinds of things. Dating, long term relationships. And so having these really allows me to play in a sandbox of like relating with other men. Right? Not just sexually, because there's, there's more than just the sex if you want there to be like really looking at my needs, my desires, like asking myself, how do I feel after this? Is this, is this aligned for me? Is this not aligned for me? So all that, all these hookups for me, like help refine who I am and what I want. And that has been a huge, huge aspect of, of kind of the pros for me. Not to mention they feel good sometimes and it's fun and there's adrenaline in the adrenaline rush. And like you get to meet people. Like there's all those obvious pros, but, like, deeper, if you choose to do that work within yourself, you can really let these kind of fun things really contribute to your growth.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's like sampling the buffet. Like, especially if you're early and you're new into gay culture, it's like, what do I like? What type of bodies do I like? What type of experiences do I want to have?
• 4:51
  Speaker A: Right. Yeah, that's a good one too. Right? Like, I've learned. I've learned so much. Like, Like a sex education almost from hookups for, like, practical, practical sex education. Like, oh, okay, this isn't porn. This is how it actually goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: Okay. Have you actually. That's a good. That's an interesting comment that you make. Have you. Have you hooked up with guys that have tried to replicate porn? Like, it feels very performative and like, you're like, okay, what?
• 5:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, all the time. I mean, sometimes I don't mind it, to be honest. I am very varied in the things that I like. So I. I can get into that. If I'm in the mood for that. I can totally get into that. Um, but, yeah, for sure. There's been such a wide range of hookups. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 5:32
  Speaker A: I don't mind it, though. Like, I'll be honest. It's not. It's not the worst thing if I'm not feeling that. Like, if I'm feeling something where I want more authentic connection, then, like, it'll just. It's not aligned and I'm not there. But other times I can really get into it and I can almost put on, like, a role playing kind of hat. Okay, this is what we're gonna do. Cool. Let's do that.
• 5:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:48
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 5:49
  Speaker B: Okay. What about cons of hookup culture?
• 5:52
  Speaker A: I think that was the beginning of my. When I first started hooking up without all that, everything I just said, like, going into a. Very unconsciously, the cons for me would be the exact opposite. So I. I ended up being insecure and feeling lonely because what I wanted was connection, what I really was longing for. And I was going about it the wrong way. I was kind of seeking these one time, you know, and I say no strings attached hookups, thinking that was going to make me feel connected, and it ultimately didn't. The other cons can be. It can be very transactional, and so it could be fun in the moment. And yet there have been times where I felt like, okay, now what? Like, like, I got all excited for this thing and I was done in, you know, A short amount of time, it could leave me feeling like there was a void in there. All this though is solved when you know yourself. I will say that I think that's like key number one when we're talking about elevating your hookups is really knowing what's driving it. Other cons, of course are like sexual health. You know, I'm on, I'm on prep, I take doxy. Like I'm on. I have all the vaccinations for everything. But you know, there's always that element, like you're going to get something if you're sexually active. It's very possible. Right. And so that can be a bit of a hassle at times. Not always has there been positive experiences. So I've certainly had my share of not great hookups, which I always swear off of them in that moment, like, oh my God, I'm never doing that again. And then do it again.
• 7:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. How do you think hookup culture impacts gay men? In the way that we relate to one another, like in a negative way.
• 7:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, I do think it can contribute to that. Like over sexualization, like transactional or where. Sorry, I think transactional is good. If both people are going into it knowing it's a transaction. I'm using you, you're using me. Then really, are we really using each other or we just kind of doing this transaction totally fine. All for that. I love that. I do that too. But I think when it can interfere with how we relate to each other is when we apply that to everyone. Look at all gay men. Like they are all just an option. A person to fuck or not. Was that guy. I'd kind of go into a room, scan for ability, ignore the ones that were not, focus on them or extract what I want from them kind of thing and then go on my way. And that was how I related with gay men for probably most of my 20s. So I don't think that's good. It's. It's almost dehumanizing when you look at it that way. But I do think there is a healthy balance where you can do that and have some fun with people who are also like minded and then also like bring some humanity into it and recognize that we are at the end of the day humans behind our sexual needs and desires.
• 8:23
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Yeah. In my, in my clinical work with clients, I would say the biggest impact negatively would be the heavy reliance on external validation. I think we as gay men, we put so much freaking pressure on our Bodies because of hookup culture and because of over sexualization. Body's a currency. So it's like if I'm getting sex, if I'm having lots of hookups, it means that I'm desired. It means that I'm worthy of love. Right. And I think a lot of us as gay men, we confuse like someone accessing our body with being loved.
• 8:55
  Speaker A: Right?
• 8:56
  Speaker B: And that's not, that's not necessarily the case. And I think that. I think we, we can actually start to move sex into an area where we can be celebrating love in that time and not just unconsciously consuming each other's bodies. We can actually be conscious, we can be present, we can be connected with the divine, even in our hookups. So we can. Right? And I think. But I think what it takes is presence. I think it takes honesty. I think it takes feeling our emotions and actually holding space for someone else to fill theirs. And I know that probably it's people are. Might be thinking that's leaning more into like a relationship or as you're dating. I don't necessarily think that has to be the case. I think that those types of experiences can still happen in hookups, but it requires two people that know themselves and know their bodies really well to be able to cultivate deeper awareness. Insects. I think.
• 9:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's that awareness. It goes back to that I was going to say something and it just slipped my mind. I've. I've had. I've had like cruising hookups where like we don't even really talk to each other. And those even there, I don't even know the guy's name, have been very relational experiences because it is. Even if we don't talk to each other, it is a relational experience. There's body language, there's eye contact, there's energy, there's touch. We're exchanging, we're talking to each other without saying words. And that I can remember hookups where I felt safe with someone even though we haven't even said a word to each other. But I just liked being in his presence. I liked the way he was touching me. I liked all that. And so you have to be open to it. And you really do have to be aware of your mind, your body, your feelings, where you're at, what's motivating you, all that stuff. And it can be very fun when you do that.
• 10:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. I want to take a moment and speak to my demisexual people because I know that people are listening to this, that that feel that. And they're like, there's no way I could do that. And I feel the same way. But I've also been on, like, a first date that lasted eight hours and had amazing sex and intimacy with the guy, like, from that first date. So being demisexual doesn't necessarily mean that I have to have, like, love or be with somebody for a long time. It's. It's not about that. So it's like, can I create the experience that I need in order to feel safe, to share my body with somebody, to open up? Right. And time is just one factor. But what you just said there, it's like, if the person is really safe and they're present and these sorts of things that can actually open up my body to want to be, like, to want to be accessed. And I think so, yeah. So maybe that's what this. I wanted this conversation to be is just like, how can we do that for each other? How can we be a little bit more conscious, a little bit more present, a little bit more aware in sex to make each other feel safe? And it actually can be very healing. Sex, sexual energy can be very, very healing. And I think it's something to be celebrated, not shamed.
• 11:36
  Speaker A: And on the validation topic, that is such a good point. I'm happy you said that. I also was one of those people who all of my confidence. Air quote confidence, because it wasn't real confidence in those in those days came from my hookups. It was like my only source of worthiness. It was like how my body count. Yeah, that's obviously changed now. But there still are times where if I'm feeling blah, I will have a hookup and I still will get that dopamine, the validation. And that's not a bad thing, I don't think, because I'm also. I'm also first of all aware that I'm doing it. I know that it's gonna last about, you know, 24 hours max. And I also have other spaces and places to get that worthiness and validation from. So it's fine if you're like. If you're having a bad day and you just want to go blow off some steam and blow off somebody while you're at it. And you know that's going to make you feel good. Yeah. Do it. Like, by all means. Just don't rely on that as your sole source and don't think it's a solution, because it's not.
• 12:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. That's well said, because it's not. It's not a Bad thing. I try and strive for 50% internal and 50% external validation, because as human beings, validation feels great. Why would we deny ourselves that?
• 12:45
  Speaker A: Right.
• 12:45
  Speaker B: It's when it's our only source, like you said, that it becomes problematic. Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker A: Or if you think that one hookup is going to, you know, be your last for the rest of your life. I mean, the validation that comes from it, because it'll. It'll hit, and then it'll go away, and then you're going to need another one, and then going to need another one, and then you're going to need another one, and the next thing you know, your. Your. Your whole life is just seeking that next hit.
• 13:06
  Speaker B: Yes. And that's where I think sexual compulsion and sexual addiction comes in, is when people are trying to fill their bucket with their bucket for love and connection and worthiness through sex. So it becomes actually not even about sex. It's not even about the getting off or the orgasm. It's about the regulation of the nervous system for these things that we need as human beings, like validation, love, like. Yeah. So it's very fascinating. Very fascinating stuff. Okay, I want to go a little more intimate. What makes a hookup? Well, what do you want to start with? What makes a hookup good for you? Like, you could share an experience of a really good hookup or a bad hookup. So we'll start with one or the other, and then. But I want to hear from both sides of the coin.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: So many things. There's so many. There's so much nuance. Look, I'm reno saying the word nuance. It really depends on how I meet the person. I prefer my hookups be organic. I mean, we see each other at the gym, we're walking down the street, we're at a bar. Like, I love that because that's so much easier for me than an online thing like a Grinder or a Sniffies or whatever apps you're using these days. So the ideal for me would be like, a gym, seeing someone at the gym, and that way I already know what they look like and there's none of that guesswork. I have had a hard time with apps of late because half the time, it's not quite what I expect. Now half the time it is, or half the time is even better. That for me, is already, like, I already get a little bit anxious when it's online already. That's like a point minus. I'll do it. I do it, of course. But I prefer my hookups to be like, there's this really cute guy at the gym, we're kind of making eyes with each other. Or a really cute guy at the bar, we're making eyes with each other. Then, like, my heart starts kind of racing a bit, like, oh, this is fun and exciting. I like that adrenaline. For me, that's a good hookup where there's no guesswork of, like, who, who, who's the guy gonna be and who's gonna show up at my door. The other piece would be if I. What makes it good is if he's kind of at that same level where, like, we both are. How do I say this without sounding terrible? Like, we're both kind of flirtatious, and we're both kind of naughty and mischievous. That's my hookup vibe. Is this naughty, mischievous, like a good boy on the outside, but a naughty slut on the inside kind of thing. So if he that we're gonna have a real good time, we're gonna have a really good time. Because when I'm in that mood, that's kind of what I want. What else? I like to host. For me, that always makes it a lot easier. I, I, I have the perfect bachelor pad for hosting. So when I'm in my own space, I'm comfortable. I got all my stuff. I'm, you know, and I make someone feel at home, even if they're just staying here for, like, 30 minutes, I'll be very gracious.
• 15:41
  Speaker B: Awesome.
• 15:42
  Speaker A: If they want something, I'll make them comfortable. I'll get the mood set. Like, that, to me, makes a good hookup. I like being comfortable, which is why I host. I prefer to go to someone else's place. Yeah, those are some of the first things I will also say. You know, going back to what you had said about cuddling and whatnot, I'm open to that. So I will be okay being the one to initiate. Like, hey, you know, you don't have to leave unless they do. But, like, if I want them to stay, I'll say, hey, yeah, you're welcome to stay. We can cuddle, have a shower, no problem. I can make us some food. Like, if I like them or if I got a good vibe from them. I won't do that with anyone. But just being open to, like, hey, this could be, like, not being so closed in, what it has to be, and letting myself kind of go with how it feels in the moment or even after. Especially after. Because how a guy treats you after he comes is very telling. Some guys are like, cool, bye. Which is fine. Sometimes I'm I'm that guy who's like, okay, you gotta go.
• 16:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Speaker A: But sometimes when I'm maybe feeling. Yeah, you know what? I kind of like this guy. Like, this was kind of fun. You're welcome to stay. I'll offer that. And if he says yes, great. But if he says not, I don't take it personally because I knew going in what this was. And so I'm not going to take it personally if he's like, oh, sorry, I can't, or, no, I don't want to.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. Discreet and open relationship guys I could see being more like that. Like, they fucking go because. Or come and go because they. Right. They're discreet guys often in shame. So they come. They come horny. And then they come. And then they're like, oh, shit. And then they got to feel all the feelings that.
• 17:06
  Speaker A: Right.
• 17:06
  Speaker B: Are they like, oh, what I did? What did I just do? Yeah, which is crappy. I actually used to do that. So I was in an. In that open relationship for four years. And there was a guy that I always used to hook up with, and I would always. We would have, like, the most, like, passionate, amazing sex. And then he wanted to cuddle after, and I would just be, like, ready to bounce, and I always would just bounce. And he eventually stopped messaging me and wouldn't respond to any of my messages. And I later took me probably five years later to realize that, oh, yeah, okay, he was feeling taken advantage of and used right. For his body, which that's really what I was doing. But he kind of probably just had some realizations that this isn't what he wants. So, yeah, it can feel crappy when somebody does that. And I think that is a. That's what makes a hookup bad, is when you just share your body with somebody and then they. They just take off after. And there's no, like, you know, what
• 17:59
  Speaker A: makes the hookup good, though, is if this is very key, knowing what you're getting into before you get into it. So in that case, Matt, if he knew that going in, listen, this is. This is where I'm at emotionally. Like, I just want to. I just want to you and get out of here. And if he was like, yeah, great, me too, then fine, we're all good. So when. When you guys can talk about it going in, what this is and what this isn't, even quickly, like, I'm gonna. You. It's gonna be about this long. And then I gotta go because my boyfriend's waiting for me or whatever the situation is. And you're like, perfect. That's great. That's exactly what I want. I want you to come over and do this, and we'll go. Yeah, that's what makes it good. Because no one's left disappointed. No one's left saying, oh, no, I had this expectation, and now I'm disappoint. Know what you're doing going in? You're both owning it, and no one's. No one's at fault for anything.
• 18:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Honesty would be the number one thing. Honest about intention, honest about capacity. What do I have the capacity for? How much time do I have to. To be there? But it's interesting because hookups, what they do is they. They're created through dopamine, and dopamine is like that reward center in our brain.
• 19:01
  Speaker A: It.
• 19:01
  Speaker B: Like. It. It. You know, it's like the guy who's horny, but he doesn't. He's in shame about being gay, and he's, like, all for it. And then he comes and he's got this, like, experience of, like, I got to get the hell out. I think the same thing can happen with guys who are wanting something more. They're wanting to be nurtured after, or they want aftercare, right? They're horny, but then afterwards, they've come, and then their body's left feeling very vulnerable. And I think that's probably what I relate more to now. I've been in both sides of the situation, so I think what you said is really, really good, because honesty, it's important. But how many times are people having that conversation in hookups? Like, I don't really know. I'm not. Not really doing a whole lot of hookups. But are you. Are people having conversations about, like, you know, like, what are we gonna do? Like, what, you know, after? Are we gonna do this? Like, is that actually happening, or is it more just kind of impulsive, and you hop in and you kind of go by the seat of your tail or whatever that saying.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: I mean, if it's something online, then, yeah, I will have that conversation, because that's what we're doing online. I guess we have that room in time to text each other. But I think the good thing for me is that I'm single, and I'm also open to friendship. So, like. Like, I'm literally very open to whatever happens these days. I'm very much in the flow. I think some people do. Again, I'm just speaking to, like, the people that I know in my world and whatnot but yeah, most of us kind of talk about, okay, this is like, I'm into you, here's what I want to do, here's what I'm into sexually, here's what I'm looking for more than sexually, or if it's just sexual and that way, you know, and then you just say, yeah, okay, I'm into that, or, nah, that's not really what I'm looking for. And there's no, again, no hard feelings. This is just where I'm at in the world. Where it doesn't happen is my hookups that are maybe in. Not on apps and maybe more in like public spaces. So cruising or things that happen in bathroom stalls at bars and at the gym and whatnot. I mean, but that is very limited. Like, I'm not expecting that it's going to turn into more. Although I will tell you, I have gotten so many guys numbers and Instagram accounts and from. From these places and say, hey, like, you're really hot. I want to do that again. Or we didn't quite get a chance to do everything we wanted to do in this very specific circumstance. I'd love to finish this up more properly with you somewhere private. And that has happened as well. So I think just being open, like just being open to. To whatever might happen or might not happen and reducing those expectations. Having intention, but not expectation.
• 21:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And. And for people out there that maybe want. Want that, like ask for it. Yes, I want to cuddle after we have sex. Or is that something you're open to doing? Right. And get that information from them ahead of time. Like that's what I mean by be honest and be intentional about something that even as impulsive as a hookup, you can still be intentional with it and
• 21:53
  Speaker A: don't force yourself either. Right. So exactly what Matt had said. There, like there are times where I'm just like not feeling it and I just listen to my body again, I'm not feeling it. Like not the. And I don't make a mean, oh my God, something's wrong with me. Like, ah. Like I don't go into this drama mode. I'm just like, eh, not feeling it. My body's saying no, I'm just not there. Something's happening with me emotionally. I'm not feeling whatever and that's fine. Don't do it. Like, take a break. Take a break for a day, a week, whatever you need a month. Focus on what you need. You know? Remember when I was in Italy in the fall and I was telling you guys on this podcast, like I have these guys I could have sex with, but I really just wanted to cuddle. And that's exactly what I put on my Grindr profile. It's like looking Canadian, looking for cuddles. And I put it in Italian and guess what? People are like, that sounds great, let's do that. Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: Yeah. I wish there was an app for that because not many guys are looking for that on Grindr and Scruff and I am on these apps.
• 22:44
  Speaker A: They.
• 22:44
  Speaker B: They're just very disheartening for me if I'm being completely honest, but just because I am more demisexual. But I wish that there was a platform that was a bit more slowed down because I would respond a lot better to that. Like, because I'm not saying I'm opposed to the hookups or casual sex, but it needs to happen in a certain way that I find those apps just don't tend to draw in the people that are looking for the same things as I am or there are.
• 23:08
  Speaker A: I will find people on Grindr will lead with what they think Grindr's for, but deep down they are maybe more demisexual or they do want that, but they just don't put that there because that's not. They think, oh, this isn't the space for me to show up this way so I'm not going to. But deep down there is a desire. I bet Matt, if you put on there like front and center demisexual looking for connection before physical.
• 23:31
  Speaker B: I have that on there.
• 23:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, good. You're gonna find people who are like, oh my gosh, that's so refreshing. That's so nice to see here on this app. And probably you will get some people who are into that.
• 23:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think a lot of people, they're. They don't want to represent themselves in ways that's going to lead to rejection. So I think there's a lot of people out there that are pleasing and they're just like, I'll be open to anything because they, they're looking for love, acceptance, approval, all these things in this space because that's where the low hanging fruit is for gay men. And I think again, my, one of my main intentions for wanting to have this episode, it's like, can we ask for a bit more and, and risk being rejected, but also risk what you're saying is you might just find exactly what you're looking for and have a really awesome experience, you know?
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, I've had people say that. That's like, wow, like you use it's so nice to have someone useful. Sentences. I'm like, yeah, I know, right? And that's how you know when I like somebody, I like you. If I'm. If I'm like, really reading it and like asking full questions and using full sentences versus hey, yeah, sup, whatever. Like that usual nonsense, that's just me, like, filling in the gaps. But what if I like somebody and I'm excited? I will. You will. Definitely. You can tell by how long my messages are.
• 24:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I. That's my biggest struggle, honestly. Like, the sup into just like, oh, there's nothing. It's like I'm talking to a fucking chimp, you know? Like, come on, give me something like that's going to lure me in to actually think that you have substance. You know what I mean? Like, that's kind of what I'm. And that's what makes me demisexual right there.
• 24:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think that's the difference with us is I, I. If I'm in that space, then I am that guy, and that's fine. If I just like, I just need to get off and I just want to really, right now, and I have a empty house and let's just do it right, I can get into that mood. That's fine with me.
• 25:15
  Speaker B: But I, I don't know, I feel like it's like almost like a respect thing. Like lead with something more than just sup, what are you into? Like, hey, how are you? How's your night going? Is like a really great way to start a conversation.
• 25:25
  Speaker A: Just saying sometimes we don't even get names right. I don't know. That's the spectrum. That's. That's what I love about hookups in general. Like I said, you can play in so many different areas and get to know yourself. Like, I realized that I had a demisexual side sometimes, and I have a side that just likes cuddling more than sex. And now I know what the difference is. And not being afraid to advocate for yourself and what you need and having no shame around either way. If you just want to get no shame, really don't want to get. And you just want to have a conversation and cuddle or even just go on a date and talk to somebody face to face or just own it wherever you are.
• 25:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I like that. Okay, so the last question, I think we've answered it quite a bit, but maybe there'll be something else percolating. So how have you elevated your hookups over the years? Like, you know, what has Helped you have more fun or more substance or more intimacy? Like. Yeah, because 20 year old Michael hooking up is probably very different than 40 year old Michael hooking up.
• 26:17
  Speaker A: Right?
• 26:17
  Speaker B: Like you have. Something has probably evolved and shifted and what, what would that be?
• 26:24
  Speaker A: I think I already said this, but I don't, I don't force myself to do anything that I don't want to do. Whereas 20 year old Michael would have thought, oh, I should. This is like there's some kind of scorekeeping in my own brain. Like all that nonsense is gone. And so I would say really just make sure you want to and know what you want. Was that the question? Sorry, can you repeat the question?
• 26:44
  Speaker B: How have you elevated your hookups over the years?
• 26:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, in that sense, like personally, it's just not pressuring myself to. That has solved a lot of problems because I just don't want to. That's fine. And then I think the second thing is, and I already mentioned it as well, is really making the person feel comfortable. Even if, if they're just coming for like a hookup, a quickie, like, like really inviting them into my home and like making them feel like the hospitality, it makes me feel good and then usually it makes them feel good and they're like, oh, this is so nice. And who knows, like it could turn into more. But regardless of what they're coming in for, I will always make them feel hospitable. And that I, I like that. I personally get off on that.
• 27:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that music. That's a big one for me. So I, I would be a host or two. Like I've had bad experiences where I've gone to people's house and it's like filthy and their sheets are dirty and stuff like that. I'm like, no, like I'm a total clean freak. So I'm like, you can come to my place. But yeah, music I like, you know, I'll take a book or page out of Reno's book and like candles, it can be nice. The right lighting, like, come on man. Like that's the best thing. Like good lighting in a hookup. That's really nice. Having the right supplies. I've been to guys houses that they don't have lube and I'm like, how do you not have lube? Right? So things like that, you know, being prepared and then conversing. I think conversing is, is what makes the experience. So afterwards, having some cuddle time, talking, getting to know them or in my. How I would need to do it is that would happen before. So, hey, come over. Let's have a beverage and let's talk. And then, like, let's let the sexual tension build and then let's go into my bedroom. Maybe what I would want is a little bit of cuddling first, so then I can, like, my nervous system can get, like, syncopated to them, like, and it can feel a bit safe, and then that can turn into something more. So for me, it has to be progressive. So having, like, progression is really, really what can elevate my experience.
• 28:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. I just realized why I like hosting as well. Thank you for saying that. Because I'm good at leading the experience, and it takes a lot of the guesswork out. I'll say, would you like a drink? Let's have, like. I will just say, let's have a glass of wine. Or can I. Can I get you wine or water? Or, like, here's what I have. And then already they know we're having a drink first. Like, okay, like, this guy's leading the way, and then same thing afterwards. I'm like, you know.
• 29:05
  Speaker B: You want an omelet?
• 29:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. It depends on what time it is and what's going on. But if I felt good about it, then I will, like, I'll say, you know, the shower's over there if you need to clean up or take your time, like, I will lead the way. And then I guess that's a. It's a bit of a control thing. But people have, I think, appreciated that someone kind of takes the initiative and there's no guesswork of, like, do I just come in and fuck you? Or, like, what happens now? Right. And sometimes you can have that conversation if it's online ahead of time. Other times you just need to lead the way.
• 29:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like that. That's a. I don't like guesswork. I don't like guessing. I don't like there being things looming because it just creates anxiety for me. I like to know what is coming, what's happening.
• 29:47
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Speaker B: While also at the same time being open to the experience kind of shifting and moving. But I like to know kind of, you know, ahead of time what's gonna. What somewhat is gonna happen. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Any other comments?
• 30:01
  Speaker A: Elevating your hookups? I. I love the concept. Like, no, I think the main thing is really just knowing why. Always go back to your why. What? Why? Why am I doing this? And is this likely to fulfill my need, whatever that need is. No shame about your needs. No shame.
• 30:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
• 30:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. Sexuality is such a just vast thing and it's so unique to each of us. And the last thing we need is shaming each other for our desires or our behaviors or anything like that. Shame doesn't help anything like it. It just makes us want to hide. And even if we are struggling with things like compulsion or addiction, insects, the last thing we want to do is shame that it's like, how can I get curious about the part of me that has these desires for things? Right. Like love and connection and these sorts of things and. Yeah. So it's good. Thanks for having this conversation with me. I think it's, it's eye opening for me and I. Hopefully the listener, viewer is also getting some. Getting impacted by this conversation.
• 31:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know in the comments what you guys think.
• 31:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. On YouTube, share with us what your thoughts are about hookups and hookup culture and good hookups, bad hookups. We want to know all the juicy details. So spill that tea in the comments section so we can all read it. All right. And if you are new here, you can subscribe to this channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe. Leave us a review, hopefully a five star review which helps us get into the ears of the people who need us. You can also sponsor this podcast by making a donation by using the link in the show notes or you can tap the thanks button on YouTube. We also have early access option on Apple which gives you early access to our episodes and this does support the community as well. Well, okay.
• 31:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:42
  Speaker B: Thank you much love, everybody.