Latest / Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast / Episode 74 - Ashley Matthews (Part 2)

Transcript

Episode 74 - Ashley Matthews (Part 2) · Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: You are listening to Tom's Hirshbrun's Podcast, where our provide
0:08
Speaker 1: a look into the remarkable experiences of the most inspiring
0:11
Speaker 1: people around Hirshprung's disease and sports. Hello and welcome to
0:39
Speaker 1: episode seventy four of Tom's Hirshbrun's Podcast. I'm delighted to
0:44
Speaker 1: welcome back Ashley Matthews four Part two, where we're going
0:48
Speaker 1: to talk about a range of different topics all to
0:52
Speaker 1: do with hirshbruns, but a range of different topics including
0:56
Speaker 1: being a special needs parent, being a GI parent, a
1:00
Speaker 1: little bits about pull through a neurodivergent as well, which
1:04
Speaker 1: is a new word I learned thanks to Ashley, So
1:07
Speaker 1: thank you very much. But again, welcome back Ashley, thank you.
1:11
Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be here, glad.
1:13
Speaker 1: To have you back. Thank you so much. Now, before
1:16
Speaker 1: we start, I know you mentioned it a little bit
1:19
Speaker 1: in the last episode. For people who haven't haven't heard
1:24
Speaker 1: the last episode, can you just very briefly explain what
1:28
Speaker 1: you are qualified in? Oh?
1:31
Speaker 2: Sure, So, I after everything that happened with Milo, I
1:38
Speaker 2: had sort of a nervous system collapse, and so out
1:43
Speaker 2: of actual necessity, I had to learn all about nervous
1:47
Speaker 2: system regulation, and in doing so, I learned all about
1:52
Speaker 2: somatics and thetic practices that help you get grounded into
1:57
Speaker 2: your body. So I got sortified as a somatic course
2:01
Speaker 2: centering practitioner and from that it led to a lot
2:05
Speaker 2: of energy healing modalities and so I'm a Riaky Level
2:10
Speaker 2: two practitioner now and we'll be getting my wreaking master
2:15
Speaker 2: as well. So yeah, it led to all the things now,
2:20
Speaker 2: but we're kind of it. When you follow completely to
2:25
Speaker 2: the bottom, you have to figure out how to crawl
2:28
Speaker 2: and climb your way back out to the dot.
2:30
Speaker 3: So that's what I had to do.
2:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely no fantastic and really really good to hear that
2:35
Speaker 1: you've you've got qualified in something that is really really
2:42
Speaker 1: relevant when it comes to sort of I guess chronic
2:47
Speaker 1: illness and things that we have, and it's incredibly relevant
2:52
Speaker 1: and we'll obviously talk about it a little bit later on,
2:55
Speaker 1: but I guess we'll start sort of where we we
2:58
Speaker 1: finished the last EPISO, So we finished talking about different
3:03
Speaker 1: types of treatment, and there was one in particular we
3:06
Speaker 1: didn't we didn't quite get to in terms of the
3:09
Speaker 1: rash tips that will that we'll crack on with later,
3:15
Speaker 1: but in terms of the kind of invasiveness of those
3:21
Speaker 1: particular treatments, I know you wanted to touch a little bit
3:26
Speaker 1: on that and to start with.
3:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think.
3:29
Speaker 2: So we said goodbye, and then we just started talking
3:33
Speaker 2: a little bit more about the medical trauma that goes
3:37
Speaker 2: along with being a special needs parent of someone who
3:42
Speaker 2: has a chronic disease. And then you know, and it
3:48
Speaker 2: kind of evolved from there or we started talking about
3:51
Speaker 2: your experience versus Milo's experience with a pull through. But
3:57
Speaker 2: I think the hardest part for me is, you know,
4:00
Speaker 2: being a Hirschwornk's parent, people don't realize the the level
4:06
Speaker 2: of invasiveness this is. And that's something that has like
4:10
Speaker 2: really worried me. Something that because he has dual diagnosis,
4:14
Speaker 2: because he has downs to him as well, I don't
4:18
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure that he understands fully what
4:22
Speaker 2: is going on and why. My husband always tells me that,
4:27
Speaker 2: you know, this is his normal, this is all he knows,
4:29
Speaker 2: this is how he's able to poot. But I feel like,
4:33
Speaker 2: you know, on a on a subconscious level, he knows
4:36
Speaker 2: that like some you know, this isn't right because he
4:39
Speaker 2: sometimes he can go in a different way like normally,
4:43
Speaker 2: and it's just it's just not a it's just not
4:47
Speaker 2: a place or an area where people should where anyone
4:52
Speaker 2: really should feel like they have no autonomy with, you know,
4:56
Speaker 2: and he's a child, and that type of thing, I
5:01
Speaker 2: think for Hershprung's kids has to be extremely difficult. And
5:08
Speaker 2: to touch on the medical trauma for us, you know,
5:12
Speaker 2: I was I realized that every time we had to
5:16
Speaker 2: go in to see a GI specialist, every time he
5:18
Speaker 2: had like an anal irrigation where we had to go
5:21
Speaker 2: in and like hold have three people.
5:23
Speaker 3: Holding him down and doing.
5:26
Speaker 2: These procedures and he's screaming at the top of his lungs,
5:30
Speaker 2: and you know, every single time we had to go
5:33
Speaker 2: do that, Like I was in shambles, and I realized
5:38
Speaker 2: I had PTSD. When we went to his a sleep study,
5:43
Speaker 2: it's like you know, regularly study, and he was like
5:47
Speaker 2: having to get all the things put on his face
5:49
Speaker 2: and on his chest, and he was screaming because he
5:51
Speaker 2: hates that because he's got sensory issues differences as well.
5:55
Speaker 2: And I just about had a panic attack. I like
5:59
Speaker 2: my husband kind kind of like picked up on it
6:01
Speaker 2: and saw what was going on because I was trying
6:04
Speaker 2: to hold him and I was like this close to
6:07
Speaker 2: like full on panic attack, and he's like, let me
6:10
Speaker 2: take over, and so we switched and I had to
6:13
Speaker 2: like calm myself done, and I realized, Okay, yeah, this
6:17
Speaker 2: is this is more to the story because your body
6:21
Speaker 2: doesn't realize the difference, so that your body doesn't know timelines,
6:25
Speaker 2: your body knows your subconscious knows what being put into
6:29
Speaker 2: fight or flight, like me having to either like fight
6:34
Speaker 2: for his life essentially is what my body thinks. And
6:39
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I need to address this because
6:41
Speaker 2: like with every you know, lab work or with like
6:45
Speaker 2: you know, just his regular things that we've got to do,
6:48
Speaker 2: I can't be like crumbling and having a panic attack
6:51
Speaker 2: about it. Like some of the things are absolutely warranted.
6:55
Speaker 2: Some of them have been horrendous, and it makes it
7:00
Speaker 2: to be having a really emotional response. But at the
7:05
Speaker 2: same token, when you when you're responding like that and
7:08
Speaker 2: reacting like that, how do you think that he's going
7:10
Speaker 2: to respond?
7:12
Speaker 3: You know, so.
7:13
Speaker 2: Learning all about like how what what's happening in my
7:18
Speaker 2: nervous system, understanding it, like fully understanding what's going on,
7:24
Speaker 2: learning having the like the practices to lean on and
7:27
Speaker 2: the tools so I can pull myself out of it
7:31
Speaker 2: and be as regulated as possible for him, and then
7:34
Speaker 2: I can close my stress response later once that trigger
7:37
Speaker 2: is like you know, and once the stressor is sort
7:41
Speaker 2: of a day. So, I mean, I just realized over
7:45
Speaker 2: time and things just kept like opening for me to
7:49
Speaker 2: learn more, and it changed my life truly, Like I've
7:56
Speaker 2: had I've had issues with anxiety my entire life.
7:59
Speaker 3: So when I became a special needs.
8:01
Speaker 2: Parent and all of these like medical complexities were a
8:04
Speaker 2: part of it, I was just like, Oh'm like, ho,
8:07
Speaker 2: I're gonna do this. I mean, I'm I'm like I
8:10
Speaker 2: get super queasy around blood and like needles and all
8:14
Speaker 2: of the things, and you know, it's just it's just
8:19
Speaker 2: been kind of a part of my life. And I
8:20
Speaker 2: was just like, oh, well, I guess I just have
8:22
Speaker 2: I have anxiety and that's what it is, and that
8:27
Speaker 2: actually doesn't have to be the case.
8:29
Speaker 3: I've all that healed my anxiety disorder. I have.
8:33
Speaker 2: I get anxious about things, but I'm not an anxiety
8:38
Speaker 2: ridden person anymore because I understand.
8:41
Speaker 3: I understand what's going on, and.
8:42
Speaker 2: I meet my needs as they arise.
8:46
Speaker 3: So I think.
8:50
Speaker 2: For Milo and his his every every other day invasive treatment,
8:58
Speaker 2: we just try to normal as much as we can.
9:01
Speaker 2: We talk them through it, we sing, you know, we like,
9:05
Speaker 2: we don't. We're not just like, Okay, let's do this,
9:09
Speaker 2: like you know, just get get it over with and
9:13
Speaker 2: negate his feelings in it, because you know, I feel
9:16
Speaker 2: like that's harmful for him to have something like this happening.
9:20
Speaker 3: And it not be addressed like in real time.
9:25
Speaker 2: So we do our best. But at the same time,
9:27
Speaker 2: you know, he has down syndrome too, so his his
9:32
Speaker 2: full ability to understand, we're not one hundred percent sure,
9:36
Speaker 2: So it's it's tough.
9:38
Speaker 1: He is he's most definitely, and I think explain that
9:42
Speaker 1: really really well in terms of and he's PTSD, you know,
9:47
Speaker 1: and and and some people can probably think about that
9:50
Speaker 1: and go, that's quite a strong way of wording it,
9:53
Speaker 1: but I don't think it is. I think that's that's
9:56
Speaker 1: absolutely the right way of wording it. And I think
10:00
Speaker 1: that it's important, I know we touched on before, it's
10:04
Speaker 1: important that we considered parents' feelings because they're there every
10:09
Speaker 1: step of the way as well as the child's feelings.
10:13
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that once you reach a
10:17
Speaker 1: certain age as a child and you've gone through all
10:19
Speaker 1: of these invasive surgeries and enemas and I mean bow
10:26
Speaker 1: wash out potentially that just because you don't have to
10:30
Speaker 1: do them anymore, the mental scars or emotional scars aren't there.
10:36
Speaker 1: I think that's also really really important to touch upon
10:41
Speaker 1: as well. And I dare say as well, there are
10:44
Speaker 1: a lot of people listening to this who might be
10:47
Speaker 1: similar age to me in sort of the late twenties
10:49
Speaker 1: early thirties that did have to go through a lot
10:52
Speaker 1: of these things, and those thoughts and those feelings were
11:00
Speaker 1: will still be there in the subconscious very much.
11:04
Speaker 2: So.
11:04
Speaker 1: I know, I know we've talked, as you said, we
11:06
Speaker 1: talked to for a while off there after our last episode,
11:09
Speaker 1: and you brought up so many, so many whether it
11:14
Speaker 1: be treatments or so many really interesting points that I
11:18
Speaker 1: had to go back to my parents and ask my
11:21
Speaker 1: parents and say did I have this? Did I have that?
11:24
Speaker 1: And they said, yeah, you had this, and this is
11:26
Speaker 1: what we did with it, and this is how we
11:28
Speaker 1: treated it, and so many things that I just didn't
11:32
Speaker 1: remember yeah, or could have won yeah, or must have
11:36
Speaker 1: must have still been my subconscious some way or another,
11:39
Speaker 1: I would imagine mm hmm.
11:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so in what you were telling me
11:44
Speaker 2: too about the difference between a pull through surgery thirty
11:48
Speaker 2: years ago to now.
11:51
Speaker 3: Do you.
11:51
Speaker 2: I mean, it's up to you if you if you
11:53
Speaker 2: want to share that, but I was bored by it.
11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean you tell I will I will
12:01
Speaker 1: so again for those and I have interviewed people who
12:04
Speaker 1: are around my age and a little bit older who
12:08
Speaker 1: have a similar story to tell when it comes to
12:11
Speaker 1: the pull through. But for anybody who's listening to this
12:15
Speaker 1: now and their child might be you're relatively young, sort
12:23
Speaker 1: of under ten years old or whatever it might be,
12:26
Speaker 1: you might end up with scars that Milo has, where
12:30
Speaker 1: you've got very small scars at either ste Yeah. For me,
12:35
Speaker 1: it's completely different than for people around my age. I'll
12:37
Speaker 1: probably be slightly younger. So I have many many scars.
12:42
Speaker 1: I won't go through them all because we'll be here
12:44
Speaker 1: all day. But two main scars. So I have sort
12:49
Speaker 1: of one just sort of just underneath my hips that's
12:53
Speaker 1: a very long line, and then there is another scar
12:58
Speaker 1: just above my hips, and they stretch from hip to hip.
13:02
Speaker 1: But the second scar is essentially like a train track,
13:08
Speaker 1: and it is. It's a very long scar with little
13:11
Speaker 1: segments like a train track, a little segments in between.
13:16
Speaker 1: And when I explained that again, when I explain that
13:18
Speaker 1: to you, you're shocked at it because you think, well,
13:21
Speaker 1: that's that's not what my son had. But I guess
13:25
Speaker 1: that's also good to see in a way that we've
13:29
Speaker 1: made medical advancements when it comes to pull through surgery.
13:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm thankful. I'm thankful where we are now
13:39
Speaker 2: and there's so much more to come. But to just
13:42
Speaker 2: to have that comparison, I mean that that really shruck me.
13:47
Speaker 2: And you have short segment at that, but you also
13:51
Speaker 2: had and asked me bag right for a little.
13:55
Speaker 1: While, did yes? So when I was born, had a stoma,
14:00
Speaker 1: had that reversed a few weeks in, then had an
14:04
Speaker 1: ace malone or yeah, ace malone surgery when I was
14:08
Speaker 1: nine until I had it reversed when I was twenty three,
14:12
Speaker 1: but stopped using it around fifteen, and that was to
14:16
Speaker 1: do the washouts, which again was interesting because I asked
14:21
Speaker 1: my parents about the washouts when I was you know, nine, ten,
14:24
Speaker 1: because I couldn't remember. And you said in the last
14:28
Speaker 1: episode about Milo not wanting the enemas and he'd pretend
14:32
Speaker 1: to go to sleep, and because you'd have to do
14:37
Speaker 1: them every other day. But for me, the washouts originally
14:42
Speaker 1: were every day, and then they were every other day,
14:45
Speaker 1: and I can remember again thinking back, I can remember
14:49
Speaker 1: dreading them, and then they became every weekend. I think
14:52
Speaker 1: it was every Sunday night or afternoon. I used to
14:58
Speaker 1: then have to do the washout all the way up
15:00
Speaker 1: until I was until I was fifteen, and that that was. Yeah,
15:04
Speaker 1: especially when you're you're twelve, thirteen, fourteen going through that,
15:07
Speaker 1: it's not very nice. I mean, that's it.
15:10
Speaker 2: It's brutal too, because you were also playing sports and
15:13
Speaker 2: you want to be doing fun things with your friends. Yeah,
15:16
Speaker 2: you have this medical condition that like not a lot
15:19
Speaker 2: of people people understand. It's kind of like this hidden
15:22
Speaker 2: secret you know that people it's a hidden disability really
15:26
Speaker 2: because a lot of people you don't you wouldn't know
15:29
Speaker 2: we have. I have the fact that Milo has Down syndrome,
15:32
Speaker 2: so they can look at him and say he has
15:34
Speaker 2: a disability. But people don't know the extent of what
15:39
Speaker 2: we what our lives are like because of herst Broun.
15:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even if even if again you mentioned the
15:47
Speaker 1: word hirshprungs to somebody, they go, yeah, no idea what
15:51
Speaker 1: that is. So it's yeah, it's It's difficult, isn't it,
15:57
Speaker 1: because it is, like you said, a hidden disability. But
16:01
Speaker 1: for a lot of people still very much requires medication,
16:06
Speaker 1: you know, whether that be in the form of you know,
16:08
Speaker 1: the washouts or the enemas or irrigations or whatever it
16:12
Speaker 1: might be, still very much. I mean, I think I
16:17
Speaker 1: was quite fortunate in a way that I'd stopped the
16:19
Speaker 1: bow washouts when I was fifteen, and apart from a
16:21
Speaker 1: surgery I had when I was twenty three to reverse
16:25
Speaker 1: the ace touch wood, had not needed anything else. Which
16:31
Speaker 1: again there's a lot of a lot of people who
16:34
Speaker 1: I talk to have short segment. And again this isn't
16:37
Speaker 1: a this isn't a medical diagnosis. But there are a
16:40
Speaker 1: lot of people that I talk to have short segment who,
16:43
Speaker 1: as time goes on, need less and less less and
16:50
Speaker 1: less medication or enemas or whatever it might be. And
16:56
Speaker 1: that's the hope that is, I guess that is the
16:59
Speaker 1: hope for every body. I'm not just a disclaimer that
17:02
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's going to be safe. Absolutely everybody,
17:06
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people. And if you'd
17:08
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, twenty twenty, twenty five years ago,
17:14
Speaker 1: when I'm having all of these medications, I remember again
17:18
Speaker 1: so many things with your episodes that trigger things in
17:21
Speaker 1: my brain that I know I haven't thought about for
17:24
Speaker 1: twenty years. And now because I'm talking to you, everything's
17:28
Speaker 1: coming up. I feel this is like this is my
17:30
Speaker 1: episode rather than yours. But we'll carry on.
17:32
Speaker 3: Well, it's important.
17:34
Speaker 2: I think it's important to hear, especially for parents like
17:37
Speaker 2: me that are hoping that you know, that they that
17:40
Speaker 2: our kids will live normal lives when they're adults and
17:44
Speaker 2: you know, and not have to have all these interventions
17:46
Speaker 2: and treatments all the time. And yeah, you're you're a
17:50
Speaker 2: success story for us. And to hear all of this too,
17:55
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's I think that's a huge
17:57
Speaker 2: important thing that people need to consider. If you are
18:01
Speaker 2: an adult or if you are a teenager and have
18:04
Speaker 2: gone through a lot of medical trauma, especially in your childhood,
18:08
Speaker 2: and if you are a parent of a child with
18:11
Speaker 2: special needs or a disability, and you have not addressed
18:15
Speaker 2: medical trauma and you're hearing this right now, I'm gonna
18:18
Speaker 2: go ahead and tell you it's time. It's time, because
18:22
Speaker 2: that emotion, that experience, that trauma lives in your body
18:30
Speaker 2: and it will present and I'm not trying to be
18:32
Speaker 2: like a fearmong or anything like it will do something terrible,
18:37
Speaker 2: but it will present in some way. And so and
18:41
Speaker 2: that just means that it needs to be released. It
18:45
Speaker 2: needs to be looked at. That version of yourself that
18:48
Speaker 2: went through that is asking you to just be there
18:53
Speaker 2: for them, is asking you to say, you know, I
18:57
Speaker 2: see you. I know you went through this. I know
18:59
Speaker 2: it was really hard and I'm sorry, and you know,
19:04
Speaker 2: and something like happens when you do that, something happens
19:07
Speaker 2: in your body that says, okay, yeah, you know what
19:11
Speaker 2: I I do. I do have something to release. I
19:14
Speaker 2: do have something to say, you know, And and then
19:18
Speaker 2: that can then you can move on. I think that's
19:20
Speaker 2: when we started talking about brain spotting and the trauma
19:23
Speaker 2: therapy that I've been that I've been doing.
19:27
Speaker 3: But I didn't mean to interrupt what you were saying.
19:29
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, carry on. The brain spotting is a
19:32
Speaker 1: really interesting it you mentioned as well, because I did
19:40
Speaker 1: again so many things that you told me last week.
19:43
Speaker 1: I am now thinking about and doing in my life.
19:46
Speaker 3: You're a tunement.
19:47
Speaker 1: You're going to do you have. I've learned the word attunement.
19:51
Speaker 1: I've learned how to spell it. Everything's great, yea. So
19:56
Speaker 1: brain spotting interesting because I did this when I was
20:01
Speaker 1: out running the other week, and then if I looked
20:06
Speaker 1: in one place whilst I was running, I felt something,
20:11
Speaker 1: and then I looked in another place I would feel
20:13
Speaker 1: another thing. So sometimes when I'd look to the left,
20:17
Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel as tired, and if I looked to
20:20
Speaker 1: the right, I would feel more tired, which I thought
20:24
Speaker 1: was interesting. But that's my very brief thing with brain spotting.
20:28
Speaker 1: But you obviously know a lot more about it, and
20:31
Speaker 1: would you like to just sort of give a little
20:33
Speaker 1: over you, I would love to.
20:37
Speaker 2: And what you probably were doing is like a form
20:40
Speaker 2: of resource spotting. And so let me put a disclaimer.
20:44
Speaker 2: I'm not a brain spotting practitioner. I have absolutely considered it,
20:48
Speaker 2: and I that maybe my future because it has been
20:52
Speaker 2: so life changing for me. But brain spotting is a
20:56
Speaker 2: somewhat like EMDR. EMDR is where your eye movement is changing.
21:04
Speaker 2: Brain spotting is a fixed gaze. So and you're working
21:08
Speaker 2: with a trauma therapist who is a brain spotting partitioner,
21:13
Speaker 2: and basically every single memory as I if you, if
21:18
Speaker 2: you like, could roll the tape back and see what
21:22
Speaker 2: I where I was looking when I was recalling my
21:24
Speaker 2: low story, for example, or if I was talking. Let's see,
21:28
Speaker 2: all right, I'm talking about his sleep study, and see
21:31
Speaker 2: how my eyes go directly here. That sleep study memory
21:37
Speaker 2: lives there in my body. Your eye gaze and where
21:42
Speaker 2: you feel it in your body is where that memory
21:46
Speaker 2: is held. And so and there's a train that's about
21:48
Speaker 2: to go buy OK, so you can hear it. But
21:52
Speaker 2: as you, as you recall all memories, you know you
21:56
Speaker 2: can just And it's funny to once you realize this
21:58
Speaker 2: that when when you are talking to someone and they're
22:01
Speaker 2: telling a story and they're looking in a certain direction,
22:03
Speaker 2: you're like, that's where that memory lives. But you're basically, well,
22:09
Speaker 2: if you want to recall something and work through it
22:13
Speaker 2: and process it, you're you're basically looking or kind of
22:19
Speaker 2: doing a scan of your body. So as you are
22:22
Speaker 2: recalling a memory that you are ready to process. And
22:26
Speaker 2: the key about trauma is being ready. It's not something
22:31
Speaker 2: to be forced. It's not something that like someone says
22:35
Speaker 2: it's time for you to address this now. It is
22:38
Speaker 2: when you have a knowing within yourself that you're ready
22:42
Speaker 2: to talk about it, release it. The good thing about
22:46
Speaker 2: brain spotting is you don't have to actually say anything.
22:49
Speaker 2: It's not like talk therapy. You can say what you want,
22:52
Speaker 2: but it is very body based somatic. It's very sematic based,
22:58
Speaker 2: where if you feel into your body and do kind
23:02
Speaker 2: of a scan and you're thinking and trying to recall
23:05
Speaker 2: that memory that sleep study. When I look over here
23:10
Speaker 2: and i'm recalling it, I can sort of feel a
23:16
Speaker 2: space in my back that feels a little uncomfortable, like
23:23
Speaker 2: the back of my neck, like my shoulders are a
23:26
Speaker 2: little tense. And then I almost always feel it in
23:29
Speaker 2: my sacral solar plexus area of my chakras, feel like
23:33
Speaker 2: in my stomach. And so you the practitioner will do
23:39
Speaker 2: like a straight line with this pointer. So they'll do
23:43
Speaker 2: a straight line within the horizontal axis, and where you
23:46
Speaker 2: feel that in your body is where you're trying to
23:50
Speaker 2: like you kind of have a good idea at first,
23:53
Speaker 2: but she's just making sure that that's the spot. So
23:56
Speaker 2: they do the horizontal axis and then you say, yeah,
23:58
Speaker 2: that's where I'm feeling that same sensation, and then they
24:02
Speaker 2: do the vertical axis and go back and forth, and
24:04
Speaker 2: then you walk in to that point and as.
24:06
Speaker 4: You're locked in, they keep that pointer in that same
24:09
Speaker 4: point and you're like, yes, I feel these same sensations,
24:13
Speaker 4: like all of these memories of this experience is flooding back.
24:19
Speaker 2: And typically there's a pretty emotional response because as you
24:25
Speaker 2: are keeping your gaze, as you were keeping this here
24:29
Speaker 2: and your bodies like getting that recognition that part in
24:33
Speaker 2: your body that's saying you've forgotten about me, like you know,
24:38
Speaker 2: I need to be seen. I need to be released.
24:42
Speaker 2: And it's not released in a way where it's like
24:44
Speaker 2: or it's not something that you need to just pretend
24:49
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, or it's an integration of that experience where
24:56
Speaker 2: it's like this happened to me, Yes, I'm seeing the
25:01
Speaker 2: and then you can release the emotional response that comes
25:04
Speaker 2: along with it that you hold without even realizing it.
25:08
Speaker 2: So the next time that I talk about a sleep study,
25:10
Speaker 2: if I have brain spotted on this, which I haven't yet,
25:12
Speaker 2: probably should, the next time that I talk about the
25:15
Speaker 2: sleep study, I won't have My body won't have the
25:21
Speaker 2: same kind of like fight or flight response to that memory.
25:26
Speaker 3: Because I have released that part.
25:28
Speaker 2: Of it doesn't mean that it doesn't still that the
25:30
Speaker 2: memory doesn't exist for me.
25:32
Speaker 3: It's just that it.
25:34
Speaker 2: Doesn't hold such activation in my body. I can speak
25:37
Speaker 2: to it from a regulated state as opposed to being
25:41
Speaker 2: like triggered and feel my stomach hurting and like my
25:46
Speaker 2: shoulders hurting and all all of the things. So that's
25:51
Speaker 2: what brain spotting does. And once I learned about that
25:56
Speaker 2: and learned how that like somatic response in your body
26:00
Speaker 2: is directly tied to things that are hidden deep down
26:03
Speaker 2: in the layers of your subconscious I was like, Okay,
26:08
Speaker 2: I can I can do something here. I can do
26:10
Speaker 2: something about this. And you know, and in being as
26:14
Speaker 2: as regulated as I possibly can't, I can co regulate
26:16
Speaker 2: with Milo even easier now because there are things.
26:20
Speaker 5: That have happened in my life and my life experiences
26:24
Speaker 5: that are apart from the medical trauma with Milo that
26:28
Speaker 5: I've held onto for years and years and years, that
26:31
Speaker 5: have you know.
26:34
Speaker 2: That have impacted me in such a way that things
26:37
Speaker 2: that happened.
26:38
Speaker 3: Twenty years ago, just like what's.
26:40
Speaker 2: Happened for you, hold such an activated emotional like almost
26:49
Speaker 2: almost break down type of response because your body doesn't
26:53
Speaker 2: know the timeline. So if I am recalling something that
26:56
Speaker 2: happened to me when I was nineteen years old, and
26:59
Speaker 2: I have processed it, my body thinks that I'm right
27:02
Speaker 2: back there again, and I'm triggered in the exact same ways,
27:07
Speaker 2: and then you have to deal with that and then
27:08
Speaker 2: and a lot of people are just like, oh, that's
27:11
Speaker 2: but that's hard. I don't want to do this. Let
27:13
Speaker 2: me drink, let me smoke, let me dopamine, hit my phone,
27:18
Speaker 2: and just scroll out of this when instead addressing it
27:26
Speaker 2: and then closing that stress response, which means like getting
27:29
Speaker 2: some exercise, like meeting that activation with a level of
27:36
Speaker 2: of regulation. Like I like to use a vibration plate
27:39
Speaker 2: because like doing that kind of activates your fire flight,
27:44
Speaker 2: but in a really safe way. I listened to binaural
27:48
Speaker 2: beats on my headphones and I have like a weighted blanket,
27:51
Speaker 2: and so it's kind of like I'm meeting that activation.
27:54
Speaker 2: And then as soon as it stops, I get this
27:56
Speaker 2: like flood of serotonin and it is I'm not serotonin
27:58
Speaker 2: but endorphins, and it is amazing, but it's it's I
28:05
Speaker 2: guess it's just like learning those things over time. I
28:09
Speaker 2: wish more people knew about it. I wish more people
28:11
Speaker 2: could pay attention to the subtleties in their body and
28:15
Speaker 2: how they change and how they become rigid when a
28:18
Speaker 2: topic is broached and when a memory is surfaced, and
28:22
Speaker 2: it happens so often, so often that when you vise
28:27
Speaker 2: it away or push it down even further, like I'm
28:30
Speaker 2: not ready to talk about that, I don't know I
28:32
Speaker 2: want to bring that up. Then you just abandon yourself
28:37
Speaker 2: over and over and over.
28:39
Speaker 3: It's self sabotage. But let's coat this with a little compassion.
28:49
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when when something like this happens, it's
28:54
Speaker 2: not easy. It's not easy to address. It is much
28:58
Speaker 2: easier to flecked and to not want to take notice.
29:04
Speaker 3: Because I feel.
29:05
Speaker 2: Like a lot of times when people are having when
29:08
Speaker 2: people are are having some kind of response that you're like, oh,
29:14
Speaker 2: what the hell is wrong with the person? You know,
29:16
Speaker 2: like it's literally something that they have it it's something
29:21
Speaker 2: that they've been triggered by that they have not addressed,
29:23
Speaker 2: that's been covered up for years and years and years,
29:27
Speaker 2: and so they have a really emotional reaction to it.
29:32
Speaker 2: And so I think the compassion for having people like
29:37
Speaker 2: I feel like when I meet people, I just want
29:38
Speaker 2: to be like, what happened to you? Like I'm I'm
29:42
Speaker 2: not a small talk type of person anyways, and I
29:45
Speaker 2: just want to be like, what happened, you know, like,
29:47
Speaker 2: what what happened if they if they feel ready to
29:53
Speaker 2: discuss it. And that's kind of what I'm doing now
29:56
Speaker 2: and in my practice of Ricky healing energy and learning
30:02
Speaker 2: about your chakras and somatic practices to be able to
30:06
Speaker 2: integrate back into embodiment.
30:08
Speaker 1: So yeah, wow, yeah, I think that all of that
30:15
Speaker 1: is it's just so important. This is why I wanted
30:18
Speaker 1: to do this episode with you, because I think it
30:21
Speaker 1: is it's incredibly important to look at them mentally emotional
30:25
Speaker 1: side that we just don't, you know, because and I
30:30
Speaker 1: think partially it's hard, yeah, but it's hard. Yeah, And
30:34
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that last bit up as well,
30:37
Speaker 1: that we're saying, you know, try and do this and
30:41
Speaker 1: do that, but actually to say, yeah, this is difficult
30:45
Speaker 1: as well, So you're not just going to go straight
30:47
Speaker 1: into a memory or a bunch of memories or medical procedures,
30:54
Speaker 1: think about it, and then fifteen minutes later everything's cool again.
30:58
Speaker 1: It doesn't work like that.
31:01
Speaker 2: Talk therapy never worked for me because I would like
31:04
Speaker 2: fill my guts about all of these terrible things, and
31:08
Speaker 2: then I would leave, like I wouldn't be given any
31:10
Speaker 2: tools to process it. They I would just.
31:15
Speaker 3: I have of that kind of release of like.
31:18
Speaker 2: Okay, I said it, it's been said, it's out there,
31:21
Speaker 2: but there was nothing else to help me process it.
31:25
Speaker 2: And so I'd leave like I went on my lunch
31:28
Speaker 2: break and I'd go back to work, and I'm re
31:30
Speaker 2: traumatized by telling this story that I you know that
31:34
Speaker 2: that wasn't processed in a way that was helpful to
31:37
Speaker 2: my body, to my subconscious, to my nervous system. It
31:41
Speaker 2: just triggered me again. So I mean I did that
31:44
Speaker 2: for years and years and years. I was just like,
31:45
Speaker 2: therapy is not helping me. It's like therapy is not
31:49
Speaker 2: Therapy doesn't work. But like talk therapy can work in
31:51
Speaker 2: a way as long as you have have the sematic
31:53
Speaker 2: practices to pair with it. Super important. But I think
31:59
Speaker 2: for for kids with hirshprungs, for parents who dealt with
32:04
Speaker 2: medical trauma, for for adults who've had it and don't
32:08
Speaker 2: and or just like that's a long time ago. I
32:10
Speaker 2: don't I don't think it doesn't really phase me now,
32:16
Speaker 2: you know, I think there could be things that there
32:20
Speaker 2: could be things to look at and to give yourself
32:25
Speaker 2: so much grace, to give yourself so much compassion, and
32:32
Speaker 2: and and know that like obviously these things are not
32:36
Speaker 2: your fault. And sometimes it feels it feels like if
32:40
Speaker 2: I if I could take this stuff away from Milo,
32:43
Speaker 2: I would do it in a heartbeat. And I just wish,
32:47
Speaker 2: I hope that he understands that we're doing these things
32:50
Speaker 2: because we have to and because you know, and we're
32:53
Speaker 2: doing everything you possibly can to make it better and
32:57
Speaker 2: to make it easier. And sometimes life just is. Sometimes
33:04
Speaker 2: life is just how it is.
33:07
Speaker 1: And that's a tricky one sometimes to understand at such
33:10
Speaker 1: a young age as well. And I know I speak
33:13
Speaker 1: to parents all the time, and there is that sort
33:17
Speaker 1: of you know, reluctance to do the washouts or the
33:20
Speaker 1: enimals or you know, and partially because they might be
33:26
Speaker 1: in an age where they don't understand none of their
33:29
Speaker 1: friends have to do this, so why do I have
33:31
Speaker 1: to do? And I think that that's a really really
33:35
Speaker 1: difficult thing really.
33:37
Speaker 2: Or they're fighting it like like actively fighting it, and
33:41
Speaker 2: then you had this whole like I don't know, just
33:46
Speaker 2: terrible energy around it to begin with, where you're like, okay,
33:49
Speaker 2: I'm you have to go in in this like battle
33:53
Speaker 2: of a child that is just like I mean, it
33:58
Speaker 2: takes two people for us, for for me and myle
34:00
Speaker 2: or for us to do Milosama and I used to
34:05
Speaker 2: be able to do it by myself, but he's getting
34:07
Speaker 2: too strong now and he doesn't want to do it,
34:11
Speaker 2: and that in itself is stressful.
34:15
Speaker 1: Super stressful, very very And I know, just while we
34:19
Speaker 1: got some court from now left on this, I know
34:21
Speaker 1: there's some another topic that you wanted to to cover
34:25
Speaker 1: in neurodiverge neuro divergent parents. Now we've spoken a little
34:31
Speaker 1: bit about this as well. Would you like to ye
34:35
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that.
34:38
Speaker 2: Yes. So in my discovery, in the fact that I
34:45
Speaker 2: a lot of my special interests are in energy, frequency, vibration,
34:52
Speaker 2: nervous system regulation and everything having to do with hirsch Brungs.
34:59
Speaker 2: You know, I discovered over time that my brain doesn't
35:04
Speaker 2: quite tick the same way as others. I was diagnosed
35:11
Speaker 2: with ADHD like early twenties, but I was just like
35:14
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is.
35:15
Speaker 1: And I just like.
35:16
Speaker 2: Tried out or all for a while and hated it,
35:19
Speaker 2: and it didn't work very well for me, and it
35:21
Speaker 2: just kind of like spun me up and gave me
35:25
Speaker 2: all this fake energy, but I still wasn't like actually
35:28
Speaker 2: able to focus on anything. It just didn't work very
35:30
Speaker 2: well for me. But most recently last year, I have
35:37
Speaker 2: I'm a bit on the spectrum as well and found
35:41
Speaker 2: that out. And it is because of my son, because
35:46
Speaker 2: of Milo's diagnoses, and because of the things that I've
35:48
Speaker 2: learned about autism, the things that I've learned about neurodia
35:51
Speaker 2: virgens from being a special needs parent, and so I
35:55
Speaker 2: started to and as as a neurodia vigent would nerdivirgin
36:00
Speaker 2: person would, I started to pick pick up on patterns.
36:04
Speaker 2: So pattern recognition is really huge for someone that has
36:08
Speaker 2: a break like mine. And so I started picking up
36:11
Speaker 2: on these patterns where nerdi version, especially moms of special
36:17
Speaker 2: needs kids have this intuition and like you always hear
36:23
Speaker 2: about like the mama's good and you don't have to
36:26
Speaker 2: be a Nerdi vigent to have fantastic intuition as a
36:29
Speaker 2: medical parent. But I have just found that a lot
36:35
Speaker 2: of times when people are talking about picking up on
36:38
Speaker 2: and like knowing just knowing like something's up, something's wrong,
36:42
Speaker 2: a lot of times they end up being they're in
36:45
Speaker 2: a virgin and so I. So I think the thing
36:50
Speaker 2: is with being a special needs parent. You are, especially
36:55
Speaker 2: one that has is nonverbal for the first four years
36:58
Speaker 2: of his life, you know, and I have to try
37:01
Speaker 2: to piece together communication and know what his needs are
37:06
Speaker 2: and be aware of his safety at all times. You know,
37:11
Speaker 2: all of these things like hyper attuned me to his
37:16
Speaker 2: energy and made me hyper vigilant, which is uh, sort
37:22
Speaker 2: of the downfall of having your right evergent brain because
37:25
Speaker 2: anxiety like is tied so so very closely together. Because
37:31
Speaker 2: I'm hyper vigilant about his safety, his surroundings, his you know,
37:37
Speaker 2: his needs, I am completely unaware of my own needs
37:42
Speaker 2: and taking care of myself. And you know, this is
37:46
Speaker 2: how I was, like having self care practices and knowing
37:53
Speaker 2: knowing if I'm dysregulated, not even like realizing how disregulated
37:57
Speaker 2: I was on a daily basis, and how anxiety was
38:01
Speaker 2: just kind of running the show. You can't pick up
38:03
Speaker 2: on intuition very well when you are anxious all the time,
38:08
Speaker 2: and so there's there's like this, there's a piece to
38:12
Speaker 2: the puzzle, I think where you know, I tell people that, like,
38:17
Speaker 2: if MILO were in this next room over here and
38:21
Speaker 2: I couldn't see him, but I'm talking to you, and
38:26
Speaker 2: there's birds that are singing, and there's cars that's going by,
38:31
Speaker 2: and whatever the case may be, I'm still I'm still
38:35
Speaker 2: in this, but I know exactly what he's doing at
38:38
Speaker 2: all times, and I know that I need to jump
38:40
Speaker 2: up and make sure that he doesn't pull this thing
38:44
Speaker 2: down on himself or like be crawling all whatever. And
38:48
Speaker 2: so my energy is pushed out to attune to what
38:53
Speaker 2: he's doing at all times, because his safety relies on it,
38:58
Speaker 2: and my ability to be regulated relies on making sure
39:03
Speaker 2: that he's safe. So that that in itself is what
39:08
Speaker 2: I have started to realize is that most of the
39:11
Speaker 2: people that I talk to that have, you know, a
39:14
Speaker 2: lot of really intuitive abilities end up having kids that
39:19
Speaker 2: are also a narrative urgent or have a disability.
39:22
Speaker 3: And then later on they're.
39:25
Speaker 2: Like, you know what, I think, I think I do too,
39:29
Speaker 2: like sure do you? Sure do? And I mean it's
39:34
Speaker 2: kind of it's it's not funny because there's a lot
39:37
Speaker 2: of there's a lot of challenges that come along with
39:40
Speaker 2: it too, but there are also some some really good
39:44
Speaker 2: parts too. So yeah, I think the intuition sort of
39:52
Speaker 2: like brought on this need for the intuition that broke
39:59
Speaker 2: broke into anxiety, brought on this need for somatic practices
40:03
Speaker 2: that brought home like needing to tie everything in. The
40:07
Speaker 2: trauma brought needing to tie everything together into like a mind,
40:10
Speaker 2: body spirit type of harmony for me. And so that's
40:16
Speaker 2: where I am now, and I'm trying to help other parents,
40:19
Speaker 2: other moms that are sort of like me, get back
40:24
Speaker 2: to a regulated state. Understand energy, Understand you know, like
40:31
Speaker 2: how how like important it is to be aware of
40:38
Speaker 2: your subtleties, to be aware of that little tinge that
40:43
Speaker 2: your body's trying to communicate to you, you know, And
40:47
Speaker 2: it is an everyday thing with your decisions. You know.
40:51
Speaker 2: I ask my body about the most mundane things because
40:56
Speaker 2: I can trust it now and before if, for example,
41:04
Speaker 2: we had a surgery for Milo scheduled. He had to
41:09
Speaker 2: have his ears cleaned out, he had to have his
41:12
Speaker 2: teeth clean and it tonsilect me and have his adnoids removed.
41:16
Speaker 2: And the day before his they called me for the
41:20
Speaker 2: time and I was like, holy shit, we shouldn't do this.
41:26
Speaker 2: I like started to panic.
41:28
Speaker 3: I was like, we got to cancel this, Like I
41:30
Speaker 3: don't want to do this.
41:31
Speaker 2: And I was like, fully, like, I'm gonna call Like
41:35
Speaker 2: I called them back, and I was like, I'm not
41:37
Speaker 2: sure if we need to go through this tomorrow. I
41:39
Speaker 2: think we might need to reschedule to a different date.
41:42
Speaker 2: And I just realized, Okay, my medical trauma is like
41:45
Speaker 2: running the show here. Because as soon as I stepped away,
41:49
Speaker 2: I got outside, I grounded my body. I like looked within.
41:53
Speaker 2: I realized, no, this is not like this isn't my
41:56
Speaker 2: intuition picking up on something that's that's horrible, that's gonna happen.
42:00
Speaker 2: It's just my body reacting to making making sure that
42:05
Speaker 2: he needs to be safe at all times, like making
42:07
Speaker 2: sure that his safety is covered and him going into
42:11
Speaker 2: surgery does not feel safe. But once I came back down,
42:17
Speaker 2: I like, okay, but it's stuff like that, you know,
42:22
Speaker 2: like I I can ask myself and get into my
42:25
Speaker 2: body and ask myself like Okay, what what's the deal,
42:28
Speaker 2: what's going on here? And I will get answers and
42:33
Speaker 2: and I've learned that I have that I have to
42:36
Speaker 2: trust myself. Trusting yourself is like the most important thing
42:40
Speaker 2: you can learn how to do, and in doing that,
42:42
Speaker 2: you have to be as authentic as you possibly can
42:44
Speaker 2: to who you are.
42:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that I guess that kind of comes
42:49
Speaker 1: back to that fight or flight response as well, when
42:53
Speaker 1: you've had that phone call and the immediate panic was
42:57
Speaker 1: to flight. I guess that would be. And yet in
43:00
Speaker 1: that sense and to rather than go, okay, we need
43:04
Speaker 1: to we need to go through with this going no, no,
43:07
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. I don't want to
43:08
Speaker 1: do it. I don't want to do it. And and
43:10
Speaker 1: I think that's again medical trauma, isn't it. It does,
43:16
Speaker 1: It does very it does very much come back to them.
43:18
Speaker 1: And even I mean especially is you know Milow has
43:24
Speaker 1: been through all manner of surgeries when it comes to
43:28
Speaker 1: hirshbrungs and you go through pull throughs and you go
43:30
Speaker 1: through you know this that the other that actually hadenoids
43:34
Speaker 1: doesn't sound so bad when you when you put it,
43:38
Speaker 1: when you put it against the other surgeries. But it's
43:41
Speaker 1: interesting that that's the the point where you've gone, no,
43:45
Speaker 1: I really really don't want to do this burying and
43:47
Speaker 1: bind he's been through all manner of other medical procedures exactly.
43:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just and that and I had to
43:54
Speaker 2: remind myself of that. I was like, we can do this,
43:57
Speaker 2: like we've we've we've done worse, you know, we've we've
44:00
Speaker 2: done way worse, and we can get through this. And
44:04
Speaker 2: I have to remind myself that when he gets sick,
44:06
Speaker 2: like just regular common, common sicknesses that are easy, breezy
44:11
Speaker 2: for anybody else, like when hirshprungs because of hirshprungs and
44:16
Speaker 2: anything GI related, if he has a stomach flu like that,
44:20
Speaker 2: that impacts us in such a way because it is
44:24
Speaker 2: a whole other level of anxiety that people do not
44:28
Speaker 2: realize is attached to being sick. So when I find
44:33
Speaker 2: out that there's like a sickness running around a classic room,
44:36
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god.
44:39
Speaker 1: But that it is. You do have to be as
44:42
Speaker 1: you said before, you know, you do have to be
44:45
Speaker 1: one hundred and ten percent careful. You know, it's you
44:50
Speaker 1: do have to be on alert more than other people do.
44:54
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, we do. There was some kind of I
45:01
Speaker 2: can't remember what study it was, but like I guess
45:04
Speaker 2: comparing a brain of a special needs parent to someone
45:09
Speaker 2: who was like frontlines.
45:11
Speaker 6: Military, that their level of stress and like PTSD, especially
45:18
Speaker 6: as a medical parent, is like very similar.
45:22
Speaker 3: And when I saw that, I was just.
45:23
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, that it worried me. It worried
45:28
Speaker 2: me about like the longevity of my life, because that's
45:33
Speaker 2: another thing you have to consider, you know, he needs
45:36
Speaker 2: us around for the long haul. And so if I
45:40
Speaker 2: am so stressed out and I'm i manifested, you know,
45:45
Speaker 2: and a physical ailment in my body because I'm not
45:49
Speaker 2: dealing with my stress in a way that is helpful,
45:54
Speaker 2: then what's gonna happen to him? You know? Like I
45:57
Speaker 2: all of those things are Sometimes it's just the worry
46:02
Speaker 2: is unbearable and so you have to like bring it
46:05
Speaker 2: back to the present, you know, to bring it back
46:08
Speaker 2: to like, Okay, what can I actually control? Because you
46:10
Speaker 2: can't control very much, but you can't control how.
46:13
Speaker 3: You're feeling in moment.
46:17
Speaker 2: And it helps, but also making trying to do some
46:22
Speaker 2: as soon as you try to make a plan, it's
46:24
Speaker 2: like everything just goes to part.
46:26
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, like a lot of things in lie
46:29
Speaker 1: but no, this has been this has been really eye opening,
46:33
Speaker 1: and I think not just for me, but for when,
46:36
Speaker 1: for when people listen to this as well. If you
46:39
Speaker 1: have only listened to this episode, then please go back
46:42
Speaker 1: and listen to part one as well, because both linked
46:44
Speaker 1: together really really well. And I think this this has
46:48
Speaker 1: been yeah, very very interesting episode that we've done. And
46:52
Speaker 1: thank you so so much.
46:55
Speaker 2: You're so welcome. I'm so glad that we continued on.
46:58
Speaker 1: Absolutely and just very quick. I know we said in
47:01
Speaker 1: the last episode, but we'll say again. Where can people
47:05
Speaker 1: find you?
47:07
Speaker 2: I'm Thematic Magic Mama on Instagram and saying from the
47:12
Speaker 2: website sematic Maagicmama dot com. And what I'm in right
47:16
Speaker 2: now is my shop that I'm opening in May and
47:21
Speaker 2: I will have some online services available. So yeah, because
47:28
Speaker 2: energy is energy where no matter where you are.
47:31
Speaker 1: Absolutely lovely, thank you so so much for coming on.
47:34
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for having me, thank.
47:40
Speaker 1: You for listening to the podcast. Find us on Instagram,
47:43
Speaker 1: Tom's Underscore Hirshbrung's Underscore podcast. Listen to previous episodes on
47:48
Speaker 1: Spotify by searching Tom's Hirshbrung's podcast.