Latest / The Growth Class with Phil Masiello / Outdoor Gear Entrepreneurship: Building a Marketplace from the Ground Up with Jake Cohn

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Outdoor Gear Entrepreneurship: Building a Marketplace from the Ground Up with Jake Cohn · The Growth Class with Phil Masiello

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, today on the show, we're joined by a guest who truly redefines what it means to push past limits both on the mountain and in business.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: As an infant, he was diagnosed with severe asthma and COPD, spending much of his childhood in hospitals.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Doctors warned he might never lead a normal life.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward to today, it's a world-class professional free skier competing at extreme altitudes with only 35% lung capacity.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: If that weren't enough, he's built a powerhouse entrepreneurial career in the outdoor space.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: He co-founded Snow Locals and created the local sale community marketplace for ski and snowboard gear that was ultimately acquired by Out and Back Outdoor, where he now serves as director of winter sports business development.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think he took it over.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll get back to that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think he told me the last thing that he took it over.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so please welcome entrepreneur, pro free skier and TEDx speaker Jake Kahn.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's Cone.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: But um that the intro sounds flattering when you say it like that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I no longer currently compete because uh my age and my uh my body, unfortunately, and my my prefrontal cortex developed and I I got a little smarter, but that was my form of life.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: I still try to I'm still actively involved in the industry and doing film and photos, but my competition days I think are behind me, though I am trying to get Portuguese citizenship and uh the sport that I competed in was just recently added to the Olympics.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: So there's not too many Portuguese free skiers, so if if that works out, maybe I'd I'd I'd do one last Hail Mary.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: That'd be so fun.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why why Portugal?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just because there aren't many Portuguese free skiers?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, that would be kind of the way in.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was actually looking at slalom skiing, which is racing, um, to do it because there really aren't any Portuguese skiers, and um through a my Jewish uh heritage, my Jewish lineage, I was able to get Portuguese citizenship.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, hopefully that works out.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully you'll see me in the Olympics.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'll be awesome.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to in Salt Lake City.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd love to, man.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: That would be fun.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um see, you're still a competitor.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're still going after it, you still you still need to lose it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: I got the competitive mindset.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's you tell me to to go left, I'll go right with an attitude.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm and I think that's kind of landing me where I am just from the the stubbornness of being born five weeks early and and having the challenges I had growing up.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I tell uh I I talk to entrepreneurs a lot and I I tell them I was never I I was I was an athlete all through college, but I obviously not good enough to be be a professional, but then I always ran, cycled, things like that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, you know, when I when I when I had my first uh uh successful business, you know, you there's so much pressure and you have to figure out how to deal with it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I started doing triathlons, and what I found was that doing triathlon sort of because it's it's not you competing against anybody else but yourself.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're competing against yourself.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Your body's saying stop, your mind is saying stop, and you just have to keep going, and it teaches you sort of this push through and this perseverance.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I did it for many, many, many years.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I stopped doing it because I started to have a couple of injuries and uh and I started to run again about you know a year ago, and then I started to cycle again.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And my wife said, Oh, you think you'll ever do another one?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I might.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, You sure?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, I already signed up for the Isn't the training just how I always wonder because my uh my cousin was a pretty uh prominent VC out in California, and he was a big Ironman guy and triathlete, and I just the time like he was so busy and yet so successful with his businesses and uh still had time to do this.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: How do you guys how is it these like ultra-endurance um events they're always, you know, people that are juggling so much?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the beauty is like uh the kids are all out of school, out of college, so I don't have to worry about that so much.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the the business I have today, I have really great people who've been with me like 15 years.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so the business sort of runs.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just do a lot of podcasting and I do a lot of lead generation for it and and stuff like that.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, my my my focus has sort of shifted.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're doing it, you know, if you if you can get to the gym by five.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you get up at 4.30, you run to the gym, which is like two miles, maybe three miles, and then you maybe you do a spin class and then or cycle class, and then you you swim for an hour and then you run home, you know, that sort of sets you up.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you really do one or two long runs a week.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So like Saturday morning, maybe you get up at 4.30 and you go out and you do a you know 20-mile run or an 18-mile run.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And cycling, I mean, I I love to cycle.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, if you go out early enough, you go out at five, you know, you can do, you know, 80 miles and you're home by noon.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you just have to sort of plan it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um What was your worst event?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: My God.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: My worst event was my first one.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I and it was here in uh in Maryland, Chesapeake man, it's an Iron Man.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I was training for it, and I I never swam before.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Never swam before.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I ran, I cycled, and I was I was happy with that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, and people were doing these triathlons.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I'm gonna I'm gonna try it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I got into the pool the first time and I swam back and forth, and I was winded.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got a uh a um uh a swim coach and trying to help me swim.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then they put they gave me another coach and then another coach, and finally this guy who could get me to swim on top of the water, not like an otter.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and then I I was okay, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but the swim part is almost the easiest because it's sort of, you know, it's sort of gentle, and you know, you're going two miles and it's really not like taxing on your body as much.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so he said, look, he said, I'm gonna tell you something.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: He said, when the gun goes off, do not go.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: He said, let everybody else go, because you have never done this before.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: You are gonna be in the middle of a pack, they're gonna kick at your face, they're gonna the goggles are gonna come off, and you're not gonna you're gonna get disoriented.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So stop, right?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, got it, I got it, I got it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we go, you know, we're we're practicing, we were practicing in the bay, we're practicing all over the place, and uh, you know, and so the I'm at this, uh I'm at my first event and I'm there, and the gun goes off, and like a moron, I go and I am in the middle of it with all these guys, and these guys were like great swimmers, men and women, and like kicking and like people are on your feet, which is the most uncomfortable thing when you're out there.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to pull off to the side and re-re get my bearings, and then I started going out and I'm swimming, and I'm thinking, because you you're you basically was an out and back.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you're out really far, you're a mile out, and you turn around, and I'm thinking, I'm thinking to myself, there's nobody to save me if something goes wrong.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I could die out here, and all I got are like these three guys in in uh uh you know in little boats up.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's in the ocean too, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my God, this is just so that was my first one, it was the worst.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I you know things went wrong like they always do, you know, the transition to the to the cycle, and then you know, things break, you have to.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, were you in a wetsuit?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, you pop off the wetsuit, you know, while you're running, and then you you got your your bike uh uh shorts on below uh you know, underneath it, and then you put on a shirt and then you, you know, go.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like I forgot my socks, and so I've had my my bike shoes on with no socks, and that hurts.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just like, man.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one was just horrible.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was horrible.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you know, you live and learn.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty envious of uh of endurance athletes and um just because I'll never be there.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: We uh there was a big film festival over the weekend tell you Tell you Red Film Festival, and they showed a movie about Everest, uh someone we know um skiing the north face of Everest and Oof.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just it's something I'll never do.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'll never be climbing eight thousand meter peaks or be an alpinist.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: I really want to, but um, you know, that's just wasn't born with it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Unless I get a unless there's some crazy stem cells that can uh and they're these are in the works, but that can grow some more lung tissue because I'm missing most of mine.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a m but i the fact that you can uh do anything, you know, really.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: We had the first oximeter in our county.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I I you know grew up with oxygen on.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: If we had lived at sea level, I'd probably be more healthy and uh Yeah, it's funny.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: My my brother is like over six feet and I'm much shorter, but it was because of all the steroids that that stunted my growth.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then because of that, I'm able to flip and spin more on skis, so it all worked out.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it all works out.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, don't fall hard.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, go ahead.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's get into it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, so so why don't you why don't you take us back to to sort of your you know your life, your career, and then how you got to uh you know where you are today.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um well let's kind of rewind.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we can fast forward through, you know, childhood, went pro uh in high school, um, was competing, was doing the world tour and and park skiing events.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I had a pretty bad accident in 2008 where I I broke my back.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um almost paralyzed myself.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was in New Zealand.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: I exploded my L4 vertebrae, had to be uh flown home from New Zealand on a a private medical jet uh in this crazy body cast.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was probably the scariest thing that ever happened.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I was only twenty-one, so luckily I didn't really realize the the gravity of it, but very lucky.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: I went to the doctor and the doctors in Seattle, and they're like, hey, if this was, you know, a millimeter more, we'd be talking about the tires on your wheelchair.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: So after that I stopped competing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was really lucky, knock on wood there.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I stopped competing and I guess that was kind of the catalyst of like, hey, what am I gonna do and how am I gonna stay in this sport?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Fast forward a couple years, I graduated school in Vancouver at the University of British Columbia.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we started all all my friends up there were also pro athletes, and we got so much stuff from our sponsors, and we weren't making a ton of money, you know, getting a travel budget and stuff, small, small contracts, but they were giving us a lot of gear back in the day.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2011 we started literally we hung an extension cord between two trees um at a house on campus and and started selling our gear.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And over the next couple years that grew with more athletes in in Whistler and Vancouver.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then in in 2014, we took it or 2013, we took it on the road of this traveling pop-up show that we would go to ski central destinations, Boulder, Seattle, Whistler, Salt Lake City, and we'd get gear from pro athletes, we'd sell it, and then we'd move on to the next space.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and at first we were just flying, giving all the gear back, and then setting up shop.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then in I think 2015, we were like, hey, why don't we start moving this stuff from place to place?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so we rented a U-Haul, a couple of U-Hauls, and we're filling up the truck and then having uh these events on university campuses or at breweries.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we found kind of a loophole that if you worked with fraternities, you could sell stuff on their front lawns rather than working with the university or the college where they wanted, you know, half a sales and it was a lot of bureaucracy and red tape and stuff.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it was kind of the antithesis to me, maybe the pro skewers and snowboarders were these were these frat boys, but we would partner with them and they would love it and we'd have these events, and that would kind of help pay for our season.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And uh at the same time, I was also running a business with my brother that would send people to skiing snowboard in Japan.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we'll focus more on the on the local sale and out and back, but I was kind of doing two things once at that time and got lucky with both of them with just the timing, especially in Japan, where it's really blown up since then, and we were kind of the first people sending uh Westerners out there um to go skiing.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: So he does that full-time now, but it was kind of a we would work on both these things in the fall and then go skiing in Japan and do the pro-athlete thing in the winter, and then all summer get ready for the next tour.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: Fast forward to 2017 um with this ski and snowboard sale.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was called the Locals Pro Sale.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had a falling out with my partner and I, and I ended up following a girl to Innsbruck, Austria.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I moved to Austria in 2017 and decided to start it up out there and said, hey, there's pro skiers out here, why don't I try an event out here?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I did that and was like, well, that was pretty cool.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: This worked out here.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um brought it back to the States, and then COVID happened.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was stuck at home, and as you can imagine, with with my lungs and and the unknown, I was really a bubble boy.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Fortunate to be back in Tell Uride.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I had this playground, uh, we built bike trails, I I was outside all day, um, definitely went crazy.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: But at that time I was like, I have so much gear from all these athletes, I have all these connections still, why don't I try to start this online?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: And luckily some of my friends are they built Shopify Shopify themes, so I I called them and said, Hey, can you help me start a Shopify store?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, Yeah, let's do it.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so started the online version of the local sale, bought a shipping container, put it at my house in Telluride, and just started selling ski and snowboard gear out of my basement, literally.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Driving into town to meet the UPS guy with masks on every day.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it that's kind of how the online version was born.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: After that, I moved the uh the whole business to Boulder, had a couple friends come in to help me, they put some money in.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: We rented a an old yoga studio, and uh again got really lucky.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was right across the street from a UPS store.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I hired high schoolers to help, and uh, we grew the business and then realized that Boulder was really expensive to run a business, so I moved it to Salt Lake City, found a warehouse out there, hired some college kids, which kind of my my luck has been in the people I've hired that know gear and know the industry.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh that brings us to 2023 where I was approached by Out and Back Outdoor, which is was a venture-backed company by VF and uh Div Sporting Goods.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I had about three months of talking to them, they bought my company and I came on board with them as the director of winter sports, just helping them find supply and helped grow that company when we got a ton of inventory.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: That lasted for a couple years, and then in uh fall of twenty excuse me, spring of twenty twenty-five, the uh founder and CEO ended up leaving and uh we floated in no man's land for a while, and then a few months ago I surfaced as the president.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of come full circle and uh that's where I am.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great story.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of long-winded, but uh that's that's how it happens.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great story.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it's a it's very interesting, you know, how everything happens, but it's all about, you know, consistency and staying with it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you stuck with it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Went to Austria and then Salt Lake and the same thing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe for too long.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: I it worked out in the end, and and I didn't start it thinking that it was going to be anything.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: We just wanted to make some extra money on our gear.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And there were definitely some moments where I I really wanted to throw in the towel and, you know, selling used skis, I was literally selling used jock straps, like from people would give me used underwear, used base layer.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was just like, what am I doing?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and it all worked out.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, it was a a lot of heartburn.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, on the on the old uh when we used to do the tour, I ended up getting shingles twice.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so much stress.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um but but I landed on my feet, so I'm I'm pretty lucky.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You got shingles twice?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so stressful of of trying to do it on a budget.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when I when I grew into the tour and and the events we do now, we they're they're better planned, we have a budget, but it was just sleeping on friends' couches or floors and eating takeout food all day and not exercising and uh trying to sell stuff and putting in your own money and just you know, the the truck breaking down.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Anything that can go wrong, it seems, will when you're starting to do it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Always does.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Always does.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime you have a plan, the plan's not gonna happen.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's something different is gonna happen.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's uh it's so funny to me when when I see uh people that start businesses and they develop these great business plans and they're so proud of them.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think And I I never say anything negative to but I always think to myself, dude, that business plan is gonna be out the window in a month.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as everything starts up, you know, it uh it and it and it kills me.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So why Japan?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: You were you you why so Japan, we uh and it's kind of a cool story too, just like uh selling ski gear, I didn't go to Japan thinking we were gonna start a travel agency.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I was uh working for a ski and snowbird blog at the time in Whistler, and uh we went out there to make little videos um and put them on the blog, and it was right after Fukushima after the the disaster there and tourism was way down, and we made a video at one of the resorts that we were getting free lodging for, and they loved it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: And we uh they played it at their trade shows in Australia and it it was it was with a handicam and such horrible editing, like smash mouth sound soundtrack.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was really production production uh budget zero and but they loved it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the next year they invited us back, and then we we brought another filmer with us, and at the time we were putting these videos on on the blog and getting um inquiries of, hey, where is this?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: That looks awesome.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, tell me how to go ski here.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we said, hey, why don't we try to start a travel agency?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it it started in literally sending people in into hostels, into camper vans, and then we realized that the margins were the same if you're doing a$5,000 trip or a$50,000 trip.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: So over the time it's grown into this travel agency that my brother runs full-time, um, had a pretty big hiatus from COVID to 2023.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: But with that, we've done brand weeks, media weeks, uh private guiding.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um it kind of wears many hats, but now it's my brother building custom trips for high net worth individuals to send them skiing in Japan.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'll personally guide a few trips every year.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that has a whole, you know, other set of problems that comes with guiding people you don't know.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: But it's really fun.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And Japan gets the most snow out of anywhere in the world.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really a a skiers paradise.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: You you know, they have onsons, which are like hot springs.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: The food is amazing.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably the safest country I've ever been to, it's the cleanest country I've ever been to.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: The hospitality is top-notch, you know.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can be getting the the budget hotel and still have it clean and and and actually pretty nice, whereas if you're getting like a super eight off the freeway in Colorado, it's kind of sketch.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: So it's probably my favorite country, just just the people, the food, uh the skiing.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's a special place.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: But unfortunately, my time this year is gonna be cut short.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: My wife is expecting at the end of February um a baby boy.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna only go out there for January if she lets me, maybe come back mid-January.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was you know, five weeks early, like I said, so I I don't it's it's not worth missing the birth of my son.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: But um anyway, so yeah, my brother runs that full time.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I help out where I can, but we've had some crossover, you know, with clients um for both businesses, so it's it's all working out.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say you you guide, uh does that mean you go you take them up the slope and down the slopes or yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I will uh take people, um, we'll build them a custom it tenuree, like the the two groups we have this year that I'm guiding personally.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'll meet them at the airport.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: We actually own a van over there that we rent at when we're not using it, so I'll take the van we own.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's a a 10 seater hiatus technology.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: them up at the airport and we'll kind of just chase snow.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it it seems we found that some of these people that have pretty you know maybe structured lives and and their business life or back home, like they just like to kind of go get wild and chase snow with some ski bums.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like the richer the people get, the more of a ski bum they want to act like, it seems like it's like, oh well I don't want a plan.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just it's snow's here.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go figure it out.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and like I said, the hotels are all nice so we're not sleeping in anywhere seedy and it's pretty fun.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I have run into problems where I've had to you know buckle someone's boots at the top of a of the lift and for that you need a ski instructor.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need a a powder specific, you know, ex pro skier to be your guide.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I I'm really selective of who I personally guide.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: If I don't want to do it, my brother will send them with operators that are that are out there either in Hokkaido or on Hansu and uh send them send them on their way.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah it's it's pretty fun and it's it's feeling great for him and happy to help out where I can.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's just I I was spread too thin with out and back the local sale or out and back snow locals and and help all the things I like doing.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know trying to to keep up a a dying speaking career it seems like and um still living a life.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: I got married last year so time flies my friend as you probably know.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It does and yeah you have to you know sort of juggle and do what you want to do and and and uh get rid of the stuff you don't want to do.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know that's a good point.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's what I I started doing it a couple of years ago and saying, you know, what do I really want to do?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think every entrepreneur goes through that after a period of time, you know?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So But hey you know you live in L you live in you live Yeah it's I think you're right.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's kind of like is is is there too much risk or not enough risk.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think it you know it's I have a long list of of ideas and I'm very ADHD so I'm I'm always monkey mind thinking of this, but it's where do I have to put this energy and and then I'm gonna have a a little boy in the mix and that's gonna be a whole nother experience where I'm really excited to just show him everything I I do and and I know but you know that takes probably all my all my time.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's that's fun.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Then what?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I'm excited.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was very nervous but I I'm I'm very excited now.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man I I tell my wife all the time like we have five kids and and they're all done with college now and I tell her all the time I'd do it again.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she does what everyone says she's probably like Oh my God I would love to do it again.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I loved having kids.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I loved doing stuff with them.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the silliness of it all I love you know so yeah and it and it just goes so fast.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's you know you you have babies and then the next thing you know they're in college yeah they're in college they're gone I mean you know and it was so good because like I grew up playing uh you know I grew up in the Bronx and we played you know basketball baseball and football.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I grew up doing.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know lacrosse we didn't play I didn't play tennis I didn't sail I didn't do all those things and you know my daughter one of my daughters became a competitive tennis player and so I had to go out there and hit balls with her and you know I got I could I could volley and stuff like that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not horrible but you know and then you know my other daughter was an equestrian and I love horses.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love animals.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh and then one son became a sailor and we don't sail and he just became a competitive sailor.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: He tried every sport when he was young I got to hand it to him man.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: The kid persevered he tried football he was too small he tried baseball he just didn't have the hand eye coordination for throwing that ball he tried basketball he was a little short he tried you know all these different things fencing you know corrupt yeah swear to God he's not like East Coast sports he tried everything tried lacrosse and then he went to summer camp and on the bay and he went sailing he came home and he was in love and so we went we sent him to a uh uh a boarding school down on the southern down on the northern neck of Virginia which was like the best high school for sailing and he became a international competitive sailor and on the little like Hobie crafts what's it on?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: On uh uh lasers was his thing so one they're one-seater lasers that it's what they sail in the Olympics and he uh and he just fell in love with it but he can sail anything I mean he's done that's awesome he's done like some big he's done the big races like from uh Marblehead to Nova Scotia or you know Newport to uh uh Block Island the Bermuda race he's trying he's traveled around the world he did a sailing thing in India did a sailing thing in China I mean he's he's become like really great at it and then he got a sailing scholarship to University of Rhode Island and he was sailing like constantly you know but he's ADHD he doesn't like school he doesn't want to do the work but when it comes to sailing I mean the kid the the kid was you know you know those um I don't know what they're called like Z Z uh you see them you see the the the the videos of them and the guy jumps on it it's like a board and the foil boards water yeah yeah we've been playing with those they're so Z foil yeah and but they had uh they have boats.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: They have like uh one isn't that what the like America's cup is on yeah yeah and he he he they gave they they gave one to the school to to test and uh this was a couple of years ago or you know and he was the one doing it and he's got all these great videos of him doing it because it was really difficult for these guys to to pick it up.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you know and then I had another one who played lacrosse I never played lacrosse so I had to learn all that but I mean you know just let's learn but you're learning it with your kid.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's what I mean like they're going to be into something I'm have nothing no idea about and it's like well let's do it together.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: I we're really lucky we we have a ton of land out here and and my brother like I said just moved back from Germany with his two kids so my nephews are here my grandparents are in the house down there um but I'm they'll move into here we'll hopefully get another house so we have this compound with hopefully the family can all grow together and I never grew up with cousins um close and i I think that's something special if we can all be here and and there's no one who's gonna watch your kid or love your kid like your family.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like your friends might say they do, but they don't really care.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: No they don't like so I I think it if we can make it work um hopefully we can but it's it's special special property and we have a you know mid-sized pond down there and my dad put some sand in it and we're just there every day now with the my brother's kids are two and five and it's just so fun.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um well not compared to Japan but the uh we get snow.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Last year was the worst year in the history of ever but it's uh the Super El Nino so hopefully well hopefully for the mountain and the skiers and my brother it's a great year here but I'm gonna be very jealous because I don't think I'll be skiing as much as I want after a baby comes, which is totally fine.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: But uh luck I you know watch it, you know, Murphy's Law it's gonna be the b best year ever and I'm but where you live like do you you wake up one day after a big snowstorm you have trouble getting out and getting it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah so we have a I don't know if you can hear my dad you know worst timing ever is is playing around on the tractor outside but we uh have to clear the driveway every year.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Luckily the house I'm in is is extremely sunny so it won't really it'll stick maybe for a day or two.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: But being in uh you know we're not in the northwest where it snows all the time.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: We'll we'll get these big storms um and then we'll have uh a high pressure system for a week or two and it won't snow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we probably couldn't survive with the this driveway and where we are without it being heated if we were in Japan or in the northwest or even in in Salt Lake City like the the mountains around Salt Lake City, you know, Snowbird, the canyons, big and little cottonwood wood canyon they get a lot of snow.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just a lake effect that that they get.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: So when you when you grew up there did you have snow days for school or yeah well a as either I was just smaller or I actually do think it snowed more back in the day.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah we had a school was closed I don't know maybe two or three times a year but we actually got out every day from school um on or not every day every Thursday or Friday we got out of school at noon to go uh for ski PE So that was uh that was awesome.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's a little more structured now.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think you have to be with a club or a coach but it's still something they do.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went to a ski academy in Steamboat Springs for high school and uh it was really because the the winter sports club in Steamboat was so much better than Tally Right at the time.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't have uh you know really structured coaching and up there they had a ski area in the city called House and Hill where you could ski at night they had the main resort and the high school I went to was really ski focused.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: It produces you know many, many Olympians and um it definitely helped me through college but because of my uh I guess rebellious not liking school as much it was it was a challenge for me for sure.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you're away from your parents and you kinda cats away myself play saying definitely uh had some fun.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah you survived but it was it's high school you know yeah I think uh you know like I said I we we sent my son to a boarding school and he hate he just it the the he's really smart and he's really driven when it's things that he wants to do.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when it came to school he just he just couldn't get it together.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's ADHD for you.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're gonna hyperfocus on something and whatever that thing is we're gonna go crazy on it and probably succeed.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: But if we don't want to do it, it's like you know we had a black lab and and when he didn't want to go on the leash, you didn't want to go.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're not making me do this.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: You can and I feel that too even with you know now being in charge um when you're running a business you have to do a lot of administrative stuff and I hate administrative stuff.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like pulling teeth but I have to do it and it's almost like I I'm in this position now and I'm focusing less on the things I'm good at where doing fighting you know an ADA complaint.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: But there's just so many things that come up every day and they're like, oh hey this is what I'm gonna do today.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, this this just popped in now I have to deal with this this tax thing this chargeback this whatever Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I I um there are things that I cannot stand doing and administratively I just can't stand it.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know I when I and when I hire people for the business I tell them flat out what I'm what I what I work on and what I don't work on because I say look if I could do it all you know I wouldn't be hiring you people.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know I I just can't it's just not in me.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a I am a very good strategic thinker, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I am very good if a client comes to us and they have a problem, I can figure out what that problem is and I can tell you how to solve it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now if you want me to go in there and like build the ads or you want me to go in there and do it's never going to happen.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: Let me ask you a question being what in that situation when you can do when you are delegating and have um people that can do things that you need done but you can do them better than that person.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do you let them do it and not micromanage or if their work is you know a B plus do you say okay or do you sometimes I'm like well I could have this guy do it or this person do it but I can just do it better and seems maybe faster so then I do it myself and waste that time.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well so so the whole like the whole point of leadership is to develop people and it all depends on how you develop them.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when you hire somebody and and you're giving them tasks, what you're really doing is evaluating what what their competency level is and whether or not they can when whether or not they can get better.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if I tell somebody to do something and then we follow up and I say okay recap it with me show me what you did and they say you know blah blah blah I'll sort of guide them and say okay next time I want you to do this, this, this and this, right?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if the next time they don't do this, this, this and this, then it becomes a different conversation.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like look, okay, let's do it again you know blah blah blah blah blah and if they can't do it then their their competency level is is train train transfer terminate someone once said to me the three T's and I I I haven't lived by that but I say it a lot but um you know I I I was hoping maybe it would come up more where I I have great people around me.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're running a super lean team um and everyone's working very hard but yeah I just figured I'd ask you that question because it's something it's a valid question and it's something that comes up all the time because um you know I have people that have been with me for a really long time like 10, 12 years.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm I'm happy about that because I can rely on them and I can it allows me freedom to do other things and I put more and I compensate them for it but I put more pressure on them to to sort of run things, you know?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh but now we're at this point over the last, I would say over the last four years, we're transitioning to um using the tools that we have today, which is predominantly AI, to to structure ourselves in a different way.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that mean?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well you know when for us as an agency um SEO is always a big deal.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: People come to us and they want SEO done.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem with SEO is it it takes it's hours of work for us and the return is not immediate.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know you can run an ad and this week and we could talk about return on ad spend and all that stuff.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: But with SEO it's a bit different, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more expensive because it's it's harder to do.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So about three years ago I said to one of our developers you know do you think we could build an agent that can go out and do SEO and let's test it.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to we'll manage it, but I want to see if it if it can do it this way it'll save us hours.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be able to offer the client you know a lower price and they'll it'll it'll sit better.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we and we did.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: It took us a while to refine it but we did we came up with this whole system to do SEO and to to manage ads and to you know manage social and stuff like that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So now my folks are getting in the vibe of managing the system that's helping to do it because you can't just let AI go.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have to just let it go it'll be a mess.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be a mess.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we deal with consumer products mostly so we don't use AI to generate images or or video because I think it's destructive.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's it's bad.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so we still do that and we put it in a folder and then the AI agent pulls that and creates the ads, creates the text we look at it before it goes live we make sure make any changes let it go live.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what AI is great at is that feedback loop of everyday it is yeah yeah coming back to us and saying this ad needs to do this, this, this, and this.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know this post is da da da da and so that's that's the beauty of it.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're sort of you're transitioning people from doing things to thinking about things and thinking about how to get things done using tools.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah that's sort of the whole thing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Have you heard of uh ad scale that company?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ad scale?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um anyway yeah we should talk because it's something that we're looking looking at we currently have an agency running our ads but um everything is going the way of AI and we got to get on board.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean you know ads the be like I said the beauty of AI is the the feedback that you get from it and the ability to make adjustments quickly.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know and you still have to you know know what you want to get across and and use AI to get it done faster.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah it's uh we have an audit we we so we took I I told you we started building these agents but we actually launched a whole uh platform about four months ago for people to do it themselves.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like you know so it's like an agency of agents.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: You wind up it'll you hook it up to your website it'll scan AI search it'll scan Google search and it'll come back and say you know here's what you need to do.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your 90-day quick wins plan.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Will it do that for you or then it'll just tell you what to do?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: No it'll say here's your 90-day quick wins plan.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want us to do you want me to do it?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you say yeah and then every day you have to you have to every day you want to go in and look at what it's doing and authorize it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I said you don't want it to go run wild and you want to make sure that it's on brand and then any problems you tell it that this is a problem because what you want it to do is get smarter and smarter and smarter which it'll do.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so like on the SEO side we took a brand you know that went took it from page five in search to like page two in a matter of 30 days and and it was it was impressive.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so but now we're focused so much on AI search, predominantly chat GPT search and um and you know and it's it's helping that that whole piece.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah I mean it'll run ads it'll manage your social it'll do all kinds of different things.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty wild.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: But that's uh it connects right to Shopify?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: It'll connect to Shopify or any website yeah and uh and it'll post it'll create posts for you.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can I can certainly share it with you.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: But hey we're out of we're we're pretty much out of time actually we ran a little bit over but um you know it was a it was a great conversation.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Any any last minute thoughts people can can get in touch with you or go and buy from your your site where's the site the site is Yeah it's uh outandbackoutdoor.com so out and back outdoor um outdoor is singular a lot of people say outdoors but you can uh check out we have thousands and thousands of products new and used from all sorts of brands it's new and used outdoor inventory gear and equipment and clothes so check us out on there we're doing a a big pop-up in Boulder Colorado next month so if you're in Colorado and and need some quality ski gear or snowboard gear definitely come check us out and I think kind of the future for it is keep the online keep the in-person events and really try to build out a a spirit Halloween model of of outdoor events maybe hit the Eastern seaboard go back to the West to turn the ship around and and uh see where it goes.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good idea and and um if people wanted to follow you and your progress do you have a website?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: I have a Jake Cone Speaks is is my speaking website you can kind of see about me on there.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Find me on social media Jake underscore con Jake underscore cone if I can if I can talk here.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah sorry if I'm I'm I'm stuttering but you can also check out the the Japan thing it's snowlocals.com a lot of info on there about Japan even if you're curious about skiing out there send us a message but yeah feel free to reach out anytime you know on the socials um or via out and back on the chat and happy to answer talk talk about skiing talk about anything talk about being a dad and uh just the more people you meet the better.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I that's how I live.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey man it was a real pleasure I I I like the conversation it was it was great for sure.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Time flew by yeah thank you.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah let me know.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Love to um all right and and thanks and we will see you guys next time.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah thanks everyone