Latest / Do Hard Things™ with Siegfried Tiegs / Feeling Alone Is Number One: What Men Need From Other Men

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Feeling Alone Is Number One: What Men Need From Other Men · Do Hard Things™ with Siegfried Tiegs

0:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: All right.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Do Our Things Podcast.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: This is Stig Fried, also known as Stig.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: And man, excited to have Josh DeJong here with us in studio today.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be talking about breath work.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be talking about men's work, what we're building here in the Do Our Things Nation community.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: And really excited about it.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: So this is Josh DeJong.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: We met at a men's retreat.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: And it was a clear connection, like immediately.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: He's aligned with what we're building here.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: He's a breathwork certified coach, life coach, and mentor.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: He's a retired triathlete, USAT certified triathlon coach.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: So he is no, he is used to doing gritty, hard things.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: And he's also a sales professional.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: He's joining the team to lead breath work, coach men, host fire circles, help us with the retreats.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: He helped us out with the base camp retreat last week.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: And we're going to be talking about all of it the importance of nervous system regulation, how breath work has changed his life, just working with men, what that experience has been like for him.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: How we met each other, and then the mission of building lighthouses.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: So welcome, Josh, to the show.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you being here, brother.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Zick.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: So for people meeting you and hearing you for the first time, who are you?
1:59
SPEAKER_00: What do we make out?
2:01
SPEAKER_00: You uh summed it up pretty well in the breath work facilitator, men's coach, and mentor, liver of life, man.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I love doing hard things, but I also love doing fun things.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm a believer of balance and contrast.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, go do super hard stuff, but also kick your feet back and do some super hard relaxation and recovery as well.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm just uh pushing the limits as much as I can and trying to bring as many guys and ladies along with us as I can as well.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: So you know, when the tide rises, so do all ships.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: So if you've ever met me in person, I'm pretty tall, dude.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm like 6'4.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: And uh Josh is someone that I literally have to look up to.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: He's like taller than me.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: What you're like 6'8?
2:43
SPEAKER_00: 6'8, 6'7.5, technically.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: But uh, but yeah, I round up.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Just just a bear of a man, like some really awesome tattoos and just great, great energy.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: And we just connected immediately.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: My brother from another mother came to this men's retreat.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: We didn't know anyone, so it was Brian and I.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: And then we met you, and like ever since then, it was been what about 18 months ago.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: We have been together, rowing together in the same direction, coaching, breath work facilitation, now hosting retreats together, and developed a really good.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, I consider you a brother, man.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: It's been so awesome.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we've done some one-on-one work together, so you've experienced coaching, and I've seen you like I learned I've I've learned so much from you as a breathwork facilitator.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: Just really excited to have you come on board the Do Hard Things coaching staff, and just appreciate you being here.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So take me back to the retreat when we met.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: What did you see that told you that, hey, this is this is my crew, like with Brian and I coming on board?
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Tell us about that.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, with you in particular, I know we did that introduction video.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm in the WhatsApp cohort before we got there, and you you talked about your name and coming back into to Siegfried Siegfried, the peaceful warrior, and that that stuck with me for some reason.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And and I remember just remember you saying that.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: So then when I arrived, I arrived a little bit late.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the whole crew was in a dynamic breath work session, and and I walk in and Ben looks over at me and he just points to the ground and I get down and I start breathing with you guys.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: So it must have been pretty wild for you guys to go into breath work and then come back out with a giant laying on the ground next to you guys, breathing with you.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: So then I know when we all kind of stood up and I was super eager to meet everyone, you and I had locked eyes right away, and I was like, that's him, that's fucking cig.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I gotta go talk to that guy.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you you know, we're we're pretty much eye to eye and same haircut, and uh just felt the energy, felt the power.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: So went over and you know, gave you a high five and a hug, and I'm just like sick, dude.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: It's such a strong name.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, and Brian was right there next to you, so connected with him right away too.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: And then Brian and I ended up in some breakout groups together and talking on a much deeper level.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And he was also, I was an early riser.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was one of the ones I was up to.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: It was usually him and you be, Uncle Barry, and that were up sitting on the front porch watching the sun come up, talking, talking about God and spirit in in the Bible.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not yet to the level Brian is spiritually, but I'm trying to learn and take in as much as I could.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: So I just sat in the mornings and listened to him and you would be talking and just absorbed a lot of that.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So that was my introduction to the two of you, and and since then it's just been full alignment on our mission, on our goals.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, been working with you one-on-one, like you said, as my coach and just learning so much from you and excited to hear that you're learning from me as well.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think together we're just we're just changing the world.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: It it's so cool that the work that I get to do, I get to learn from everyone that I'm working with.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, I just think that's so powerful.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: And uh I think that one of the things that man, what really inspires me about you is I just love your level of like energy and curiosity.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: Like I've been trying to like be a little bit, I've got this rigidness about me, I think maybe through the military and my personality, but like this, you have this like youthful playfulness that I really that's just really fun and endearing, and that's one of the things that I that I love about you.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: And just your commitment to just growth and work and all the things that you have overcome.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't realize it, but we I just learned this, I think, last week when we were talking the retreat, that that particular retreat was your first time at a all men's retreat.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: What was your ex what what drew you to that and what were your takeaways from that experience?
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: So what drew me to it was I had started a new job a couple of years ago.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: It won't be coming up on three years now.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's a great job.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: I I love it.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: I love doing sales, but I know there's more to life.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And I had started doing breath work about around COVID time and trying to show my friends and bring my friends into it and share the experience with them, but they didn't really take it too seriously.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I need to take this to the next level, and I don't know how to do that.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And then God sent me a little wink in in the form of an Instagram targeted ad from Ben Holt.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh it was a sign up for a certification to be a breathwork facilitator, and then hopped on a call with Jack, hopped on a call with Ben, and they invited me to the retreat as well as the nine-week course for breath work facilitation, and and I was a hell yes, all in.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I want to meet some new people who are doing the same thing and and just get around guys and and really explore that space and see what it's all about.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, jumped in with both feet and one of my red flags, I don't know if it's a red flag, but one of my a thing about me is that when I go do something, I typically experience it with a little voice in my head saying, you can do this better.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Figure out how to do that.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's like anytime I go to a yoga course, I'm like, yeah, I could teach this and and just think about you know the things that I I would add here or say differently or do there.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, being at that first retreat, it was it was top-notch, very high quality.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, I could do this.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Few times that I've thought, you know, I could do this, I don't know if I could do it better, but I'm gonna I'm gonna sit back and wait until that time to do it comes.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: And so continue doing the work, connecting with you.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: And then you said, Hey, do you want to come help us facilitate this retreat in St.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: Geneva?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: And and I was like, there it is.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I knew it was gonna come around.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: And and so yeah, you brought me in.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: What was magical about our experience, you know, just as good, if not better, than than the one we experienced in Texas.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: I think what was magical was me, you, Tim, and Brian.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Like we did some planning and we did some you know foresight on the the event, but when we got there, we just meshed and flowed so well.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And it was just a perfect weekend for sitting around and and doing the hard work and getting to know each other and what was needed to happen happened, and it it was it was awesome.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think one of the things for me in regards to like men's retreats, I never thought that I would do that type of work, like go to one, but it made such a tremendous impact.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: I was involved in a men's group.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: I'd been in other groups before, but they were co-ed.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing, you know, for the ladies listen to this, there's nothing, I mean, it's nothing personal, right?
9:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not sexist in any way.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: I I have come to learn that I think there's a there's an energy when it comes to men and women.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And there's, you know, when I if I'm in a group with women, you can feel the energy difference.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: If it's co-ed, there's an energy difference.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: And if you're with all men, there's an energy difference.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: And I have found in my own healing and not having a father growing up, I used to kind of steer uh shy away from like men.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: I just felt like I I personally not having a father, I felt maybe like incomplete.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: I felt I felt like I could always relate to women because I was always a deeper thinker and I felt like I could have, you know, guys, m most guys in our society are pretty, they don't know how to have deep conversation.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: It's about football or you know, dick and fart jokes or I mean it's very, it's very surface level.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: But being able being around men that have the capacity for that, and to be around men that there's no ego and you can put your armor down and like be very vulnerable and share, was so transformative in my own journey.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: It's why I'm so like, as I have developed my coaching practice, like I'm feeling called to do more in-person events.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: So we've had two retreats so far: the summit, which was going to Kilimanjaro, and then Basecamp, which was like an in-person.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: It was all the things we couldn't do in the summit, they were both wildly successful, which is why we're going to continue from here, you know, to do them regularly now.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: And just the power of men gathering.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: And there's going to be opportunities for women to gather.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm looking, I'm in the I'm in the hunt right now for a female coach to deliver that and and figure that out, but just really excited about that opportunity of getting men together.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: So hearing you share your experience with that is pretty powerful, man.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: If you think about other arenas of life, you know, if you want to become a better salesperson, you go to a sales conference.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: If you want to become a better realtor, you go to a realtor conference.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: If you want to become better at soccer, you go to a soccer camp, right?
11:01
SPEAKER_00: But when you go to that soccer camp, you don't have football players and the cheerleaders and tennis players mingling in, right?
11:08
SPEAKER_00: If you want to be a better man, you got to get around men and make that the topic of conversation, right?
11:14
SPEAKER_00: That's what what you have to dive into and look at.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And I know there still is somewhat of a stigma or men's circles and you know the jokes that go around with that and and men's retreats, like being a cult or you know, people kind of looking at them strange, but you don't look at a sales conference as strange, right?
11:30
SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of almost more culty than than what we're doing, where you know you've got all the the frameworks and the structures and and people with experience doing it, sharing their experience doing it.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to being men, it's so rare that you know you you intentionally find that space and time to get around other men who are being men.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And and it gets overlooked, and then you end up in situations where you know the the the worst men are highlighted often.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure a lot of people are on the news lately and seeing that terrible story that's come out.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: I I can confidently say for you know, as many terrible men are out there, there's 10 times more good men out there trying to make a difference, but that's not what hits the highlights.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: And and if we keep doing this work and bringing those men out, bringing those men forward and talking about it and being being that, being that example, eventually it's gonna make a difference.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I think we already are making a difference.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: What do you think some of the biggest challenges are men have in our society?
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Feeling alone is number one, I do believe.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Every time we we bring a new brother into our circle, I don't want to say every time, but a lot of times they cry.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: They just hear the stories of the other guys going through very similar situations, very similar paths, and they're just like, shit, I'm not alone.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Like there's someone out here experiencing what I'm experiencing.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: And until you find those other men who can open up and be vulnerable about it and talk about it, like you just don't know, right?
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Everyone kind of feels they're going through the same things.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's just talking about football and dick and fart jokes and you know what the latest new color is, or I don't know, I'm pretty out of the loop on all the social things, but um, but yes, until you get into that intentional space and in there is is a space to respond instead of react, right?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: When we can create a very safe intentional container, and those men can come in and instead of snapping straight into that fight or flight reflex, they can stay in that in that rest and digest and feel comfortable, feel safe, feel held so they can finally open up and know that they can talk without judgment and they can feel their emotions without judgment and and work through those things.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Because the longer those emotions and those feelings are pushed down deep inside, they just they harden and they come out as as anger, as frustration and in very hard negative ways.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And then that's the stuff that's highlighted, right?
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: No, I think you hit the nail on the head.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: The feeling alone, like no one gets me.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: Like if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I uh you know, no one gets me.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: That's uh there are people that will get you, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: And and and having that space to be able to, I know for me, like I was numb for about 10 years, I couldn't really break open and cry.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: And now when it comes, man, I just let it come.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it is it is strength to feel emotion and not hiding.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: I think it's the biggest source of strength.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And the programming, the societal norms of what it is to be a man and all of the programming that we have received, I don't know that it's been very it has not been useful for me in my life.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: And so to be able to learn new methods to be around other like-minded men that are doing the work, that that are striving to be better in their profession, better providers, be more connected to God, better in their health, better in their relationships.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: Knowing, you know, getting to the core of who they are is so I don't know, it's been life-changing for me personally, and what an honor it is to be able to like lead that now and create spaces for that, man.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Just this just to see men transfer and transform in just a couple of days.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: It's like you can see a guy walk in and you feel his armor in place, and then he's you know, might still be thinking, like, what the hell am I doing here?
15:17
SPEAKER_00: This is this is crazy.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of it, just seeing feeling all their emotions, smiling, being open, open-hearted, ready to, you know, have have shed what they didn't need anymore, and then they're ready to be open for what's next to come.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's a powerful feeling.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And I've been paying attention to what gives me energy, what lights me up on the inside, and and it's that, you know, it's seeing those men come back to themselves, come into confidence, come into faith, come into trust, and start leading themselves and leading their families and leading their community from a place of of love.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: It's really awesome.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: I mentioned it for myself, but why why do you think so many men hit their 40s and they have no one to talk to?
16:01
SPEAKER_02: They feel like they're alone.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: What's it like from your perspective?
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Big piece of that's the programming, right?
16:06
SPEAKER_00: And we we hear it from a very young age.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Boys don't cry, men don't cry, deal with it, handle it, you know, pull your bootstraps up, get back to work, you know, be tough, don't show emotion.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And that is uh every man I've worked with has heard that at a young age and it breaks my heart.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, the the younger men that I work with now, like we're we're trying to break that from them.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, just it kind of hardens them and it it's programming them to not feel their emotions and just move past it, move on.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And then you see in the programming, every of those old sitcom TV shows that we used to watch with the laugh tracks on there.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've ever gone back and watched King of Queens, but they are just shitting on this poor guy nonstop.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: And then you hear the crowd laugh, shit on them, and they laugh, shit on them, and they laugh.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of the show, he's just like, okay, and accepts it and deals with it, right?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And and that's what we've been shown to be masculinity.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Just handle it, just take it.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's it's it's not fair, it's it leads people to isolating.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: So you're you're not supposed to feel your emotions.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, what do you do with them?
17:19
SPEAKER_00: I can drown them out with some alcohol pretty quick.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And you feel like you're you're you're processing it.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: It's a false sense of processing your emotions and getting over it or numbing it out for a short period, but they're still there.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Those emotions and feelings are still there, and they're gonna come back out eventually.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And but men don't know how to do that.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: They're not given space to to yell, to to be primal, to pound their chest, to you know, get those feelings and emotions out.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: So they isolate, they they go to substances and and yeah, it's just a downrolled spiral from there.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: What do you think it's what what do you think the cost is for a man carrying everything alone?
17:58
SPEAKER_02: What do you think that is?
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Man, it can get as costly as their life.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Suicide rates amongst men are very high.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: I think they're the highest in our society.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Apart from that, cost their family, you know, it costs them to act or do things that that aren't in their highest power, and they eventually burn down the the household, right?
18:22
SPEAKER_00: And they they end up getting divorced and their children taken away, and and then that can lead to more depression, more anxiety, more numbing, and lose their jobs, lose their savings, their their whole life.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it can cost a lot.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: It costs friends if you're out, you know, lashing out to friends and you and you can't maintain relationships outside of things like alcohol or you know, dick and tart jokes.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it can cost everything.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: What what do men need from other men that they can't get anywhere else?
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Support, I think.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: I say support from other men who know what they're going through.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, every man can can find a relationship and and marry a woman who supports them and can stay there and listen to their feelings and thoughts and emotions, but it's not the same as going through them yourself.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: A a great leader is somebody who has experienced what they are leading people through and has successfully gone through that.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: You can't pull people out of that from not having done that yourself.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: So asking for that support, and then and then that comes, you know, just listening.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: There's times for men to just sit there and listen.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: There's times for men to to be asked to come help and step into action, but just having that listening ear so someone can talk and and hear their story.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, man.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: What do you mean if if someone is listening to this, a man who's like, man, I'm feeling really alone.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't have a lot of close friends, what advice would you give him as far as like his first steps this week to make that connection?
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think a good step is reach out to your friends in your close circle and start asking some harder questions.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: How's your heart?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: What are you working on this week emotionally?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: When's the last time you cried?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: And then you can find those friends who are on that level and needing that same thing.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: You'll be surprised when you ask someone, how's your heart?
20:27
SPEAKER_00: What what comes out?
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And really dig a lot of times, you know, you say, How's your heart?
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's good, it's good, how's yours?
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, no, man.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, how's your heart?
20:35
SPEAKER_00: What's on your heart?
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Is it heavy right now?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Is it full?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it light?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
20:39
SPEAKER_00: And get in, get into that conversation, and you'll find the ones that can have the capacity in your circle for that conversation.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: You might take that friendship to a next level.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: And apart from that, just Google search men's circles in in my area, right?
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Or reach out, I'm sure, put my contact information in here, reach out to me directly.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll help you in that search process.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: If you're in Indianapolis, we sit every Thursday mornings and evenings.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, just start with a Google search and and see who else is out there.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: And and the groups, they can be intimidating.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, again, it comes with that stigma of people who don't understand what's going on, that it's a cult or it's a it's a circle jerk, you know, weird stuff like that.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: But it's not, it's a it's a very welcoming place.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: If you find a a true men's circle, you know, they there's no judgment, there's there shouldn't be any fear stepping in there because everyone's coming from the same place.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you I was thinking about like asking someone, like their certain friends that if I ask what their heart is, they would come back with like a what do you what are you talking about, man?
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Like like they wouldn't understand the question.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: And some people might go into roasting you or making fun of you, but it's only it it's in an effort to deflect.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Um then some people you might be like, you know what?
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I the you might open up a conversation with someone because it's not a common question for many men, and you'll determine who's got capacity and and who is not.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but there are there are numerous men's groups out there in a variety, you might have to search a little bit to find one, but that's why we're so I mean go to dohardthingscoaching.com and you'll be able to find one.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: But I just implore every man to get connected in in something that is that is useful for them or they can they can connect.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And if there's not one in your area, start one.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: It's super easy.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, six p.m.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: on Sunday, just come sit in my backyard with me.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: You don't need an agenda, you don't need an outline, just just get around other guys.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: And we we just do it around around a fire.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: I held uh fire circle this last week.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: I think the the fi well let me ask you this.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: What is a fire circle?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Fire circle, yeah.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: It's it's coming together with you might have to help me with the the idea.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean the exercise, cold plunge, conversation.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: What was the rest of it?
23:00
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about breathwork in a minute, yeah.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: But something powerful and primal about just getting around a fire.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: A fire is mesmerizing to most humans.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: And sitting around a fire, we do what we do is we do a check-in.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and allow every man to speak without any interruption?
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And anything else that would allow him to feel alive in this moment.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And then we just tease up some other questions like, you know, what are some wins?
23:26
SPEAKER_02: What are some losses?
23:27
SPEAKER_02: What are you struggling with right now?
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Where can we be supportive and let every man speak and just allow that space?
23:32
SPEAKER_02: That in itself is so therapeutic.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: And there's something about just sitting around a fire, like a like we have this primal man inside of us, like our the the what do you call that?
23:46
SPEAKER_02: The we're we're evolving, right, as humans, but we have not caught up to the digital age.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: So being outside in fire or near water or barefoot on the ground, it feels so good to us because we were supposed to be in one with nature and we have removed ourselves from nature.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: So just sitting around a fire, being outside in itself is just therapeutic.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: That's why it just feels so good to sit out by the fire by yourself.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: Then you get a group of men that are talking about, you know, just checking in and talking about those things.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: You add some movement or some breath work, and we'll talk about breath work in a minute, but it just feels really freaking good.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And we've got uh so we call our group here in Indie the Men of Men of Standard.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we meet, like I said, on Thursdays, and we've got some guide work, some framework in there of what we call them our standards.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not a place to come cram my advice down somebody else's throat.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not a space where if if we'll say John is sharing and you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to do this.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: That's not what it looks like.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: It's it looks like him sharing.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And if I have a good piece of advice, I would say, hey, I have some advice, can offer it, or wait until afterwards, ask him to give that advice.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's letting him get that out.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: So letting him talk about that and just get it out of his body before somebody starts telling him what to do.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: There are times where you know men do ask for some help and support, and and we all kind of jump in, but it's not a place to come to be judged for what you're going through.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the rules are no judgment, no ego.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: What happens around the circle stays around the circle, and no unsolicited advice.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: You must ask permission first to get some ideas.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: And we we use I statements and speak from experience.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: So no, love that, man.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so you're gonna start to see more of those pop up here in the Do Our Things Nation because we just hosted one and we've already got the next one on the calendar.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: So if you're not in the Facebook page, go check that out and then go to doarthingsnation.com and you'll see those popping up.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: But really, really powerful.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Now we've been talking about breath work.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: So for someone that explain it like I have never heard the word before.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: How would you describe it?
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Intentional breathing.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So we we you breathe all day, every day, and you don't think about it, or maybe sometimes you you for a few seconds think about your breath, or you you go up the stairs too fast and you have to catch your breath type thing.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: But when's the last time you sat down and intentionally and hold and feel your breath and feel your lungs inflating, feel the the temperature of the air coming in.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a form of meditation, right?
26:27
SPEAKER_00: It's it's bringing your attention directly to something that you do literally thousands of times a day that you you don't typically put your attention on to.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And then beyond that, it's uh it's a very strong tool for regulating your nervous system.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Most of us live in the sympathetic, and I always get this backwards.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Parasympathetic is rest and digest, sympathetic is fight or flight.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: So we live in sympathetic nervous systems, stressed out, high cortisol, with the the blood in our extremities, right?
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Ready to fight or flight.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Breathing can help put you into that parasympathetic nervous system, rest and digest and slow you down, allow you to relax, allow your organs to do what they're supposed to do, digest, digest your food, let your kidneys work, let your liver work.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: And it takes us out of that really stressful state and to calm down and relax.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So when you speak about men, and one of our responsibilities in society is to respond instead of react.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're in a heightened nervous system all the time, you're constantly going to react.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like road rage, right?
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Someone cuts you off and snap, you're pissed off and screaming at your steering wheel and and you're upset.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: With a regulated nervous system, you get distance between the stimulus and your response.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: So that distance gives you the ability to stop.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Think, oh, that guy probably cut me off because he just didn't see me there.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll just slow down a little bit and we can all live and you know go on with your day and take out a lot of that stress and anger and anxiety.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: So there's a few different, I don't say few, there's a tons of different types of breath work.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy to think about because we just think that you go in and you go out.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: But there's holds, there's you know, activating breath work, relaxing breath work.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Breath work to put you into deep meditation, lots of lots of good breath work out there.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: As a performance coach, you know, one of the things in my training was you got to get all your people to do meditation.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm trying to close my eyes and just meditate.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I cannot stop the squirrel that is running the hamster wheel in my brain.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: And I struggled with it for the longest time.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: And what I've learned is I was in chronic fight or flight from my years of being in the military.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: And the breath work is what's enabled me to can take control of my nervous system.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: It because your nervous system automatically responds to things.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: And when you've been in chronic fight or flight, that just becomes your operating system.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: It is almost impossible to slow your brain down because you're trying to think about your brain, it is just like honing in on everything, thinking about survival.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: But by being able to take dominion of that, and and and now that I can get myself in the parasympathetic nerve, I can activate my rest and digest, I can get into a meditation and I also sleep better because I can turn my brain off.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: I can allow it a chance to stop trying to survive and just chill.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: And initially, when I first started doing Wim Haw Style, I didn't like it.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: It was uncomfortable.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, my mouth is dry.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: This I'm feeling lightheaded.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: I didn't understand what everything, all of the other benefits of it, but it is a disciplined practice.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: And now that I've incorporated it in my daily life and I'm teaching it now and seeing the impact it has on other people, I mean, it is absolutely incredible.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's right there, it's free.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: And it's like it's I think God has given us tools to heal ourselves, and the breath is one of them.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: What do you feel the difference is between breath work for performances and breath work for healing?
30:01
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question, but they're they're very similar.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, to to heal, you need to feel safe.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: You need to to be able to feel your feelings, and and to do that, you have to be in a safe space.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So breath work, regulating your nervous system, allows you to feel safe in your own body and your own surroundings, allows you to let go of the stress and anxiety and the pressures from outside of your body, at least for the time being.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And so that you can, if that's mental and emotional healing, you know, you can address that as far as like physical healing, it has benefits as well with that, with the rest of digest, right?
30:37
SPEAKER_00: It's it's called digest because when you're so stressed out and all the blood's out in your extremities, you're you're literally not digesting your food.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: It's just pushing food through you, and your your body's not absorbing the nutrients from the food.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: So when you can slow down and actually get in that parasympathetic system, you get all the benefits of the food, the medicine that you're eating to physically heal your body.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's good healing all around in all sorts of senses.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And it also increases your lung capacity, your VO2 max, which is one of the three major signals of longevity.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: So you've got grip strength, leg strength, and VO2 max are the big indicators of longevity.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: So building up your cardiovascular system, it's pretty basic.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: The stronger you are breathing, the longer you're gonna breathe.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And the more you're gonna get out of your oxygen, the better gas exchange that comes with it as well.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: So it is uh it is a practice just like lifting weights.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, you you lift five pounds and eventually you go to 10, then you go to 20, then you go to 50.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: Same with breathing.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: You can hold your breath for 30 seconds, then you build up to 45, 50 minute, two minutes.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's great for all sorts of healing.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, then for high performance, same thing.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Um if you can regulate that nervous system to take on more.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if if an email hits your desk and it stresses you out and it costs you half your energy tank to handle that situation, then you're you're kind of deplete for the rest of the day.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: But if you can manage that response to that stress trigger and then handle it in a less stressful way, then you can you can handle more.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: I feel that, man, from a from a high performance perspective, uh, there's a direct correlation to your lung capacity and longevity of life.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: And we don't fully use our lung capacity.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: So, like doing some of those holds where we like, you know, you inhale and then you sip in more, like full capacity and hold it.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: And then that stress response.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: I I'll I was thinking about this the other day, like, when was the last time I was sick?
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I have not been sick since starting breath work regularly.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: They claim that it it boosts your immune system because of the stress.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: I've honestly not been sick in 18 months, knock on wood.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and the increase in lung capacity and just if I am tired in the middle of the afternoon and I'm driving, I can just it's you got to be careful driving and doing breath work because you want to pass out, but I know myself.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: But doing some activating breath work to wake you up, or if you're tired at night, like I do a little breath work before I go to sleep, I'm sleeping better.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: It's become such a superpower.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: And I I know I know for us here, like it's and it's a hard thing to do.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: It's a hard thing to because it's a little bit uncomfortable sometimes, but holy cow, is it such a game changer in so many different ways?
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: How did you get involved with it?
33:28
SPEAKER_02: How did you find it?
33:30
SPEAKER_00: It was around COVID time.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I just needed some sanity as the world was going crazy.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was James Nestor on Joe Rogan talking about his book Breath.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: And then he mentions Wim Hoff in there.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I looked up Wim Hof, and he's this crazy Dutch guy.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: He reminded me of my dad.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Sounded just like him.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I like crazy hard, extreme things because he's doing the cold exposure and climbing the mountains with no shoes and no shirt.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: That's why he really got into it.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Started using his app to breathe, started doing it every morning.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: My specifically remember a situation where I was on the the interstate and somebody cut me off, and I was just like, Yeah, it's okay.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wait a second, that's not me.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: That's that's not how I normally react, but that's awesome.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: And so then it made sense, and I was starting to see the benefits from it.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And racing triathlon back then, there's a you know the cardiovascular benefits to it as well.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: And I thought were were pretty helpful in in my performance there.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: And so just kept doing it, kept breathing and taking it further and further.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: And and then yeah, like I said, saw uh Ben Holt's course and jumped into that.
34:34
unknown: Yeah.
34:35
unknown: Yeah.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: Wim Hoff, I mean, as you know, most people listening to this are, you know, we're athletes, endurance athletes and whatnot.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: And you know, here you got a man who has been doing all he has all these records running barefoot, long distance in the snow, running in the heat.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: And they ask him, like, what are you some type of superhuman?
34:54
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, No, you're just not using your body to its fullest capacity.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: And it's the breath work and the cold plunging.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: I've incorporated the cold plunging, which forces you to breathe too.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: So it goes hand in hand.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: And holy cow, what a difference does that make in so many different ways.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and cold water is just another, it's free, it's there, it's and there's so many health benefits to that, which is why we incorporate, and it is a hard thing to do if you have an ice bath for three minutes.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh so good, man.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: So good, and so good for you and your muscle recovery and creating brown fat and just uh just so many good things.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: All right.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: I want to talk to you a little bit about your journey as a triathlete and then retiring from that because you've overcome some health issues, which I know has caused you to do some mental jujitsu and navigate that.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: So, can you explain?
35:48
SPEAKER_02: I guess give us a little bit of history of your background with triathlon, the community that you created, and and just you know, your transition from that.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: So I grew up waking up at 5:30 on the weekends and 5.30 in the morning to go watch my dad race triathlons and at Prairie Creek Reservoir in Muncie and uh all over the state.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Didn't really get into it until later on.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: I was in college.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: I was a big shithead college, majored in beer pong and chasing girls.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And once I got out, moved back closer to my dad, he gave me a bike and a helmet and said, let's go racing, get your shit together, and let's do something with your life.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: So jumped into it, was pretty decent at it from a pretty early age, or I guess early beginning into the sport.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: And I really enjoyed the community around it.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: I started racing locally and we'd run into the same people here and there and at these races, and then we would all convene around drinking a beer afterwards, waiting for the awards.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And one of the guys, Greg, said, Hey, let's start a team since we're all here.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: We might as well all wear the same gear and and have some fun with it.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: So he created the brand Tri-Loco.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: About a year or two after, he ended up moving down to Louisville.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: So I took over and then just saw the need there for a community leader in triathlon and and kind of a different ethos than the other triathlon clubs.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: We didn't really take it super seriously.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: We we'd love to win.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: We we would race hard and we would we would get some podiums, but it was more so based around the the community and showing up and seeing your friends and cheering for each other and enjoying a beer afterwards and hanging out outside of training as well.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So so I did that for about 13, 14 years.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, then more recently I started having some some back pain, some leg pain.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was 2021, I think.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: I was the first time I had to get off my bike because the pain was so bad I couldn't, I just couldn't do another pedal stroke.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Come to find out I had what's called itmospinal thesis.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Basically, my one of my vertebrates was broken and just kind of floating around in there, and it had degenerated the disc underneath of it.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: So I needed a spinal fusion.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Pretty serious operation.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: About the end of 2023 in November, had that operation completed.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Started going through the healing process.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: It was basically six months of three months of no bend lift twist, and then another three months of pretty limited mactivity and just PT.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: But as we got through the end of that, I've still had a bunch of pain in my legs and in my hips.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: So we went back to some imaging and found out that I had FIA, femoral impingements.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what the A stands for, but needed a surgery as well on both sides bilaterally.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Also had torn labrums in my hips.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: So that ended up being those two surgeries in October and November of the following year.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: So that made three surgeries in one year, which was pretty rough.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: And then so I'm still kind of on the back end of that and trying to get through on the recoveries and finding some more pain.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: And then just recently found another crack in one of my vertebrates that's going to need a surgery at the end of November again.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: So through that whole process was just it was pretty hard.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: And trying to continue to run the team and be a part of the community without racing and without actually being in it proved to be a lot more difficult than I thought it would.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Emotionally, it got pretty difficult to be at races because you know, I used to be out there doing it and doing it well.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: And that's where I a big piece of how I met my fiance was through triathlon.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of my best friends through triathlon, and it kind of just started to dissolve from there.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: And so the club's still going.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: There, there's still a presence, but it's not really what it used to be.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: And I found myself really needing somewhere to put that energy into the energy of building community and putting putting on events and bringing people together and that ended up being uh this men's circle here in town and and retreats and putting on events with the guys and breath work events as well.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: So uh so the transition has gone from triathlete to breath work facilitator, men's group facilitator.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: And I'm very thankful for that.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: I think this, if I didn't have that, I'd feel alone, you know.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Going back to that, it would be because that triathlon was daily tri daily training, and then pretty much every weekend through the summer was going to a race either to participate or to support, and I was coaching athletes and and helping them through their journey, not just by giving them training programs, but being out there with them, riding bikes, running, swimming.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And that was what really filled me up.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, if that would have just gone away without anything else to put that energy into, it would have been it would have been pretty rough.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like lifestyle, it was part of your daily routine, it was community, it was everything.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: What did triathlon and endurance sport teach you that you still use today?
40:46
SPEAKER_00: That could fucking do anything.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: I remember signing up for my first Iron Man, full iron distance.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: For those of you who don't know what that is, is 2.4 mile swim, 112-mile bike, and a 26.2 mile run uh for a total of 140.6 miles.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: All you gotta do it under 16 hours.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: When I had done plenty of sprints in Olympics, and I was like, uh, I really I wanted an excuse to get another tattoo.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And everybody who does an Iron Man typically gets an Iron Man tattoo.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: So it was like a thousand bucks to sign up, and I was working a crappy job, and you know, I had all these excuses not to do it, but then I'd scraped together the money, signed up, and and then I was like, oh shit, I actually have to train for this and figure out how to get through it and nutrition and travel and you know the whole nine yards.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: But I made it happen, and and since then never looked back and did another four after that.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just you know, once you hit that finish sign, you feel invincible, you just feel like you can do anything, and and then you start acting like you can do anything, and and then uh you start doing anything, it's pretty cool.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when you do something that hard in that kind of environment, it gives you this quiet confidence that you can do anything.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's so many moments.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: Did you ever what was your did you ever have a race where you had like this?
42:07
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, like it just wasn't going your way, and you were like at rock bottom.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: Did you ever have one of those spiritual experiences?
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, oh yeah, plenty of times.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Probably the most most prolific one was one of my last 70.3 events.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: It was Panama City, 70.3, so half half iron distance, and I bonked.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: I I'm one of those guys that rides for show and and then dies on the run because I can ride fast and I like to ride fast.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: So and it was hot, it was May.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, there wasn't a whole lot of warm training up here before we went down to Florida, and then it it was just super hot down there.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: My family was there, big team race, so a lot of the locos were out there, and yeah, I walked most of that run in the heat and just chafing everywhere and hungry and tired and thirsty, and and uh everything in my my mind said stop when it the hotels right there.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: You can just go take a shower and and get in the cold pool and be done.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: No one cares.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, this is dumb.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Just go home.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm here to finish what I started and and got through.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: It still ended up being one of my fastest times for 70.3, but yeah, it was it was painful.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love those moments like that, man.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: You just really learn a lot about yourself and perseverance and and you know, remember why you started and so many lessons learned in moments like that.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: And and it's I think we need that in our life.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: That's that helps us become more resilient, confident for sure.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to talk about uh building lighthouses, and then we'll uh we'll exit toward the door.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I had learned, you know, this parable from one of my coaches and mentors, Jesse Elder, about the the you know, being a lighthouse versus a tugboat.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: And it really, really made such an impact on me, and I know it has on so many people.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: And so jokingly, you know, it's become kind of a thing like, hey, we're in the lighthouse construction company around here.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: This is what we're trying to do, is is build lighthouses.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: And so what makes a person a lighthouse?
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Someone who leads by example, who who lives the life and helps guide other people towards that life without spending all their energy doing it.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so it's quite literally being the lighthouse that just shines a light on where safety is, on the way to go, versus the tugboat that will go into the water and one by one pull other boats back to safety.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: But if that boat they're pulling sinks, the the tugboat's gonna go down with them.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Takes a lot of energy to to tug one at a time.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: You kind of have to go into to to the survival mode, tugboat itself, you know, to pull the ship out or to bring that ship to safety.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: So it's not conducive, it's not efficient.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean being the lighthouse is just somebody that stands tall, stands bright, and it shows the way.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:03
SPEAKER_02: How does breath work, men's work, and fire connect to building lighthouses?
45:09
SPEAKER_00: It's the path, man.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't want to say the path, but certainly it's the path that I've gone down.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: It's uh I believe it's the path you've been down as well.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: So you know, breath work helps you respond instead of react.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Men's circle allows you to lead and be led.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: And and that's that's the way to getting in there.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's the path.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: If we build a thousand lighthouses, what do you think changes?
45:38
SPEAKER_00: Less tugboats, less need for tugboats, more illumination on on how to do it, you know, and that the the community around the lighthouse becomes a lighthouse, right?
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Vibrations and frequencies, we all we all meet at the highest.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: So if we can just have everyone be a lighthouse, then uh you know, we're all know the way to safety.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: I think I think we need this, we we know that there's a leadership void in our society, and we need poor people stepping up, and that's what we're here to do is help people overcome the fear, the frustration, the fatigue, the feeling of being alone, and you know, building up people that that are leading by example, and uh because we need people now more than ever to do so because there's just so much bullshit.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: I I don't even for the lack of a better term, I've got other choice words, but it's just something does not feel right.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: I know that our society and nation could be operating at a different capacity, and we need more leaders stepping up.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: That's the bottom line.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: So, why why did you decide to uh uh come on board the Do Our Things Nation and um and be a coach and facilitator?
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Alignment, man, and and in the voice, right?
46:56
SPEAKER_00: You've got a nice you you've got a big audience, you you know how to project and be the lighthouse and and bring people in and show people the way.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: And me included, I mean, you've been my coach for the last year and and it's been transformative for me uh to see you build this and to be able to be a part in in building the do hard things nation is amazing.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like I said, alignment, we're we're very aligned on on how to do that, how to create lighthouses, and and I think you know, if you want to go fast, go alone.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: If you want to go far, go with friends.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man, it's been it's been an honor to connect with you and be on this journey with you and and continue to do so.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's been uh it's been awesome.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: So we'll do a couple rapid fire questions, and then if you have anything else you'd like to speak into, and then we'll we'll close it out.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: So what is your morning routine?
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, first thing I do before I even stand up, 50 push-ups.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: And then I walk out, grab my water, go downstairs, and then I do some lymphatic draining, which is swing my arms side to side, swing them front and back, and then I I jump a hundred times and I strap the harness on the dog.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Wim and I go for a walk barefoot.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Typically, if it's warm enough, no shirt.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: So usually I've just some cotton shorts and I look homeless walking a little wiener dog through my neighborhood.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then I get back, uh I do a little bit of journaling, and then start my coffee, take my supplements, have a little bit of food, and then I jump into the laptop to do some work.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: My breath work comes later in the day.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: I I find it more uh beneficial to do it as a midday pickup and don't be mad at me, but I need to get back into cold plunging.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: I've been slacking on that one.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: I had to change the water out and I haven't put it back in yet.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: So get back in that cold water, yeah.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: Do hard things.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: Favorite breath technique.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's a name for it, and it's probably the DMT breath, I think is is what it closely I've sort of developed my own.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: So it it I say it's kind of my own, but I'm sure somebody's put a name to it.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the Wim Hof breathing, more rapid in and outs.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: And then I do a deep inhale and hold.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And once I start to get a little bit wavy and kind of feel like I'm gonna knock out, I start to blow out through pursed lips really hard with the activated diaphragm, and it can send me into that euphoria, and and it physically feels good mentally.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: It's it's cool.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: There's it's kind of like a psychedelic trip that all the way out and hold as long as I can, and then an inhale hold, sigh that one out, and then repeat.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: And I like high stimulus, so I usually put on some loud and hard dubstep music, and and I can time my breathing and holds to the drops and the and the and the beats and stuff, and and yeah, I like to have fun with it.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your music selection doing breath work is pretty epic, it's pretty awful.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: Best race, favorite race you ever ran.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, Iron Man Muncie 20 2021.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: It must have been 2021 or 2020.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: Iron Man doesn't do a full distance Iron Man in Muncie, Indiana.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: They've got the half, but this was post-COVID when there were so many races that were full from deferrals.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: They decided to put one on here in Muncie.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: Great venue.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the place I grew up going to watch my dad race.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: So for them to have a full there was pretty special to me.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: Also brought the entire team out.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: I was wildly undertrained just because of life was happening at that point.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: I said, fuck it, and just still went up there and had a blast.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: I've got a bunch of videos of me just stopping and talking to my friends as they're out there and just goofing off.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: And don't tell anyone because I could probably lose my finish time in that.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: But I drank a couple beers on the course, I had an edible, I just, you know, had fun with it, had a good time.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: It ended up being my favorite race because it was just goofing off and not taking it super serious.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Travel is an A-type personality-dominated world, and that just drives me crazy because we do it for fun, but everyone's just so serious about it.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: So also to see everybody else's faces as I'm out there just screwing around and singing and having a good time, and that that was fun.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: That led me up to it.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: Great advice for people listening to this that are doing endurance sports, it doesn't have to be so serious all the time.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: Have fun with it.
51:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, remember why you started, and that that was to to do something fun, unique, and and have fun with it.
51:25
SPEAKER_02: Every book someone should read.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, of course.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Do hard things.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: Life on offense, of course.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Life on offense.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: That's the one.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: Other than that, the four agreements.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: It's a good start.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Four agreements, love it.
51:44
SPEAKER_02: Be impeccable with your word.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Don't take anything personal.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Always do your best.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: What's the final?
51:50
SPEAKER_02: What's the fourth one?
51:52
SPEAKER_02: Shoot, it's gonna drive me nuts.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: On the spot.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: That's how hard they are.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: They're not easy to do.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: Four agreements.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna look up real quick.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: Here we see, I'm sorry.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: I should know this.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: And I'd be like, duh.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, don't make assumptions.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: Be impeccable with your word.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: Don't take anything personally.
52:13
SPEAKER_02: Don't make assumptions.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: Always do your best.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: Sound easy to do, but they are not the easiest things to do.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
52:22
SPEAKER_02: All right.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, so some advice.
52:24
SPEAKER_02: Someone's listening to this, they're drifting.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: What advice would you give them?
52:28
SPEAKER_00: Get around community.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Just get around other people, start talking, find your tribe, be there.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I saw recently a study or an interview there talking about a study about people who had attempted suicide and thankfully were unsuccessful.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: They asked them about who they connect with and who their friends are and who their community is.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: And 100% of them did not have a community.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have someone to talk to about it.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: They they were alone, quite literally.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's what ultimately, you know, that's the common denominator that you can't ignore that.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: That's a big piece of what pushed them there.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, find the people, find your people, find any people, just get around other people.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: Loneliness and then like no hope for the future.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: That that is the deep end.
53:16
SPEAKER_02: That is where you where you end up uh if you're not careful.
53:19
SPEAKER_02: I've definitely been to the edge there.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: It's not good.
53:23
SPEAKER_02: Josh, where can people find you?
53:26
SPEAKER_00: ElderinAir.com.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: That's E-L-D-R-A-N-D-A-I-R.com.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Also, I do believe I have a profile on dohardthingsnation.com, maybe, or do hardthingscoaching.com.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Somewhere.
53:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both of the both those links will take you.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: They are both inter interchangeable.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: And then uh yeah, I'm on social medias, but I'm I'm uh weaning away from that.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna plug those.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: But if you Google my name, I'm sure you'll find it.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome.
53:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, Josh, thank you, brother.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the uh the team.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: And if you're listening to this and this one really resonated with you, come find us.
54:05
SPEAKER_02: You can join the Do Hard Things Nation at our on our Facebook page.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: So if you look up Do Hard Things Nation, it is an open page that is the free community where we're dropping in daily journal prompts and just sharing, just having having conversation over there.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: If you at the time of this, we are launching the Bates Camp community, which is a paid community.
54:25
SPEAKER_02: But if you want to go deeper, you want to experience performance coaching, movement coaching, you want to improve your body and your physique.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: We got Coach Brian on to do that.
54:35
SPEAKER_02: We've got um breath work facilitation.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be having other events.
54:39
SPEAKER_02: So if you want to learn more about that, just go to do our thingscoaching.com and you can learn more about working with Josh or any other of the instructors that are there and join the community there.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: And the upcoming events and retreats that we have coming out, 2027 is gonna be an awesome year.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so if you want merch community, go to doarthingsnation.com.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: If you want actual coaching and you want tactical coaching, go to do our thingscoaching.com.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: If you've gained any usefulness from this podcast, we ask that you leave a review and go grab the book, Life on Offense.
55:10
SPEAKER_02: All the links are in the show notes, so we just encourage you to go check that out.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: Josh, any final words before we call it a day?
55:18
SPEAKER_00: I think that's it.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: It's an honor and a privilege to be here and and working with you and doing this work that we're doing.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good, man.
55:27
SPEAKER_02: I love having you on board with us.
55:28
SPEAKER_02: Appreciate your time today.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: And uh for those listening, keep doing hard things.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you in the next episode.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: Let's go.