Latest / It’s All Your Fault: High Conflict People / Dating Radar: Your Blind Spots
Transcript
- Megan Hunter: Welcome to It's All Your Fault on TruStory FM, the one and only podcast dedicated to helping you identify and deal with the most challenging humans, people with high conflict personalities. I'm Megan Hunter, and I'm here with my co-host Bill Eddy. Bill Eddy: Hi, everybody. Megan Hunter: We are the co-founders of the High Conflict Institute in San Diego, California. In today's episode, we continue our dating radar series. And this time we're going to focus on how to identify your own blind spots. But first we have a few quick reminders. We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to know if you've dealt with a high conflict situation, been blamed, been a target of blame, experienced violence or abuse from someone with a high conflict personality. Or maybe you simply dread seeing that person again, but you probably have to tonight at home or tomorrow at work. So send us to your questions and we might discuss them on the show. You can submit them by clicking to submit a question button at our website, highconflictinstitute.com/podcast, emailing us at podcast@highconflictinstitute.com, or dropping us a note on any of our socials. You can find all the show notes and links at highconflictinstitute.com/podcast as well. Make sure you subscribe, rate and review, and please tell all your friends about us. Telling just one person that you like the show and where they can find it is the best way you can help us out and help more people learn how to address high conflict people. We appreciate this very much and we appreciate you. And now we're going to talk about identifying your own blind spots. First, wouldn't it be great to have x-ray vision to avoid toxic relationships? And then on top of that, wouldn't it be nice to have an internal virus scan that could help you identify your own blind spots when you are looking for love, when you've swiped right and you're in that dating relationship like, "Whoa, what do I do? Is this a good person or not?" So the subtitle of our book Dating Radar is Why Your Brain Says Yes to the One Who Will Make Your Life Hell. And that combined with the cover of our book, which is a heart shaped trap, like a bear trap, it's kind of, I suppose, a little bit disconcerting. But we did it that way because romantic relationships with HCPs really can be hell. They're tough. So the subtitle came about after years of hearing endless stories of people who said that they'd met the one only to discover later that they were in a very, very deep dark hole with few or no options of getting out. And at this stage, most people have already had kids together, bought a house together, started a business together, commingled assets, something that ties them together forever, or makes their immediate future a living hell through court battles, financial loss, and for some even time behind bars. You, yes, it's true. So we wrote the book to help prevent these types of outcomes. But let's focus today on why our brain says yes to that one, by looking at our own blind spots. And we're going to do this because when the brain says yes to the one that is so obviously damaging from an outside perspective we need to understand that. "Why does our brain do that?" So people who end up in relationships with high conflict people aren't stupid, but they just don't see what they need to see when they need to see it. This isn't about lack of intelligence. These blind spots are really just lapses in judgment or discernment that any of us can have. But if you know you have blind spots and you know where they are, you can compensate for them just as you would before changing lanes on the freeway. So we can put most of our blind spots into three general categories. One, low self-esteem. Two, loneliness or grieving. And three, naive beliefs. So, Bill, let's start with low self-esteem. Why or how is this a blind spot? Bill Eddy: Well, it's interesting. Really at all ages, because we wrote this book for all ages, could be teenagers beginning dating, young people in their twenties, on up to people who are getting divorced in their fifties or sixties. So any period of time. Life has its ups and downs, and when we have our down times, it's a question of how much do we blame ourselves? Is it bad luck or is there something wrong with us? And a lot of us feel some of the time like we're not worthy or there's something wrong with us or, "Why would that person I'm attracted to go for somebody like me?" And so low self-esteem really can affect not only your expectations, but also your behavior. So you may put out signals that, "You can take advantage of me because I don't feel like I have many choices." Things like that. Also, people coming out of say a relationship with domestic violence or verbal abuse have often really had their self-esteem lowered because those experiences, so all of that can make you aim low and make you act low. And that may set you up for someone that's looking for somebody super vulnerable. Megan Hunter: Yeah, we don't want to aim low, do we? And that's exactly how we get there. Now, the next one is loneliness and/or grieving. And this one is probably a bit more obvious, but what is it about loneliness or grieving that make us more vulnerable? Bill Eddy: Well, I think if someone's been in a good relationship or a hopeful relationship and it ends either through death of a partner sometimes or divorce, where there's loss of the dream, then people are grieving that dream. They're grieving the loss, death of a loved one, death of the dream. And suddenly they're lonely. And so there's often the feeling that, "I really have to have somebody to complete myself. I'm not okay just being alone." And so when you're looking for someone to take care of loneliness and take care of grieving, you're at a more vulnerable place for getting hooked into, again, someone who might be wanting to take advantage, someone who's out of balance themselves. And in many ways the solution is get some counseling, work on yourself so you feel whole before you're looking for somebody else. And so you're a whole person looking for another whole person. And one thing we know about people with high conflict personalities is they live life generally out of balance. They're highly emotional in many ways and lack a lot of self restraints. And so they're almost looking for a partner who will ground them and help settle them down, except it doesn't work that way. So you want to take care of loneliness and grieving before you're dating. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for potential difficulties. Megan Hunter: And as one survey respondent advised, quote, "Accept that be being alone is better than being abused and lonely." I think that really says it all. Bill Eddy: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Megan Hunter: So the last of the three is naive beliefs. What does this mean and how does this make us vulnerable? Bill Eddy: Well, this is really very interesting because this is where we're dealing almost with the opposite of what the culture tells us. Because the culture tells us time and love will heal all problems. And when you're dealing with a high conflict person, they often have an enduring pattern of behavior. And so time and love aren't going to have an impact on how they behave. And if they're blaming and accusing and emotionally ups and downs, you're not going to change that just letting time and love go by. Another one is that you can change them. And it's interesting, I've heard for years that when men get married, that we hope the woman will never change. And that when women get married, they hope the man will change. And many men also try to change the woman. And the reality is you're not going to change the person. And they might even suggest that you make them a better person, and that's flattering, but that's not true. You don't change someone's adult personality. They have to do that and rarely do people do. It's not impossible. And I want to mention briefly here, we're not saying these are people who should never have happiness, high conflict people. It may be that this motivates them, that your setting limits or splitting up motivates them to get some help for themselves. We want them to be happy too and learn skills for getting along better. But we don't want you to have to be their therapist. That's something their therapist should work on. The last of these naive beliefs is mistaking warning signs for love. And that's where you get someone's obsessive behavior. "Oh, isn't that sweet? He calls me every hour and asks what I'm doing and where I am." Well, that's someone that's going to potentially be quite controlling someday or stalking you. And you go, "Oh, isn't that sweet, he followed me where I went yesterday. He cares so much." Well, obsessive love is a warning sign, not a healthy sign. And so need to be aware of these naive beliefs. Megan Hunter: Right, they may be needing to feel connected so badly and feel attached and the that fear of abandonment or something and like that, that they will stalk others. And we can mistake those things sometimes. So just very much be aware of those and see these things as red flags or at least something to be explored and be cautious about. And I know you don't watch a ton of TV, Bill, but I do. Especially reality TV. As our listeners know, I always say I have a PhD in reality TV. But what I've seen in the relationship shows like 90 Day Fiance and Catfish in particular, the internet and dating apps and social media have really opened the door for high conflict people to get to people who are naive, who are lonely, who are grieving all of these. Because you've got someone sitting in the middle of a small town in middle America and they're lonely, maybe they're divorced and they're naive about people who do want to take advantage of them or have any of these other characteristics, high conflict characteristics. And so I see repeatedly on these shows that these folks are just so naive and they get conned, or they get their hearts broken. Just really shattered in a million pieces. And they just keep getting strung along. So if you're one of those that is really naive or lonely or grieving, just watch a few episodes of Catfish or 90 Day Fiance and you'll get some education. So now let's move on to mistaking warning signs for love. And I know you mentioned this a bit, Bill, but music and movies and TV dramas teach us to regard certain dating behaviors as expressions of devotion, like the stalking. And these same tendencies are actually harmful in the hands of some HCPs, right? Extreme behavior, like that constant texting or showing up uninvited or stalking really can be misinterpreted as signs of love. But it is a warning sign of a pattern of extreme behavior. The one thing we haven't touched on with that is jealousy. Some think of jealousy as maybe something minor and to be tolerated. But is that true? And if not, when does jealousy become a problem? Bill Eddy: Well, I think for people with high conflict personalities, that they're very threatened by who else you're interested in. And they're used to being abandoned, disregarded, disrespected, all of these things. So if they get someone who's willing to tolerate them, they're going to want to hold onto that person. And so what you see often is the jealousy is a piece of the power and control, or coercive control that we see in domestic violence relationships, which often doesn't show up the first five or six months, but usually within a year. That's why we say, "Wait a year." That's why I say, "Wait a year before you make the big commitment to getting married, having a child, buying a house." But it's a pattern that usually will reveal itself eventually. And hints of that, like you get a cringe feeling, is something to pay attention to, because this is so common with high conflict people that they don't want to lose someone who's willing to tolerate their behavior. And it can be very passionate and seem like, "Oh, he's so jealous I talk to a man or a woman at lunchtime at the office. Isn't that sweet?" Well healthy relationships aren't threatened by you having lunch with somebody at the office, unless you're putting out hints that you're wanting to change relationships. But otherwise, routine, normal behavior, if they're jealous of that, they're going to try to isolate you. And that's another aspect of these controlling relationships. So jealousy is a warning sign. Megan Hunter: I was thinking while you were talking about some of the situations we've heard about from clients and customers of jealousy and some of them are so extreme. For example, being jealous of their partner's pet. It's really fascinating to see, but they feel either disrespected or abandoned, even when their partner seems to pay attention to the pet. It also could be the cell phone, fill in the blank. It could be a relationship with your parents, with your siblings, with a friend. So you really have to pay attention to these things and realize that the person, they're not a bad person because they feel this way, but they may not be the person for you because they're not ready. They're not ready to be in a relationship. Now, in our survey, we found that the majority of respondents believed that even if they saw red flags in the relationship, they thought the person would change with time. I guess we weren't necessarily surprised by that. I think that's probably pretty normal for a lot of people. But I'm curious, Bill, why does our brain do this? Bill Eddy: Well, I think part of it is our wishful thinking, that we really want this to work okay. And there may be, and there's often, early signs in the relationship of great in intimacy, excitement, affection, et cetera. But then you get the negative parts and you think, "Well with time, the positive parts will win out. So we'll just hope that this other problem goes away." And so that's why we say the subtitle of the book, it's our brain, our brain's kind of working for us and working against us. Because there's all these temptations. Our brain wants us to be with whoever we're with. And that goes back millennia, I guess, earlier times, when if you found somebody that worked out, you better hold onto them and reproduce as quickly as you can. So I think in a way, our brains are programmed to get it along, even when they're setbacks. And I might mention, this is a good place to mention, that the chemicals in the brain want us to be with the people we're around, like dopamine is one that gets us excited, especially interested in sex and drives us to have sex. Oxytocin is the warm, fuzzy, the love hormone for adult relationships, as well as parenting kids. And these go through our brain and make us a little more warm and fuzzy. And then there's endorphins that give us a peaceful, euphoric bliss. And all of these chemicals are pumping away saying, "Go with this." But we now have knowledge of patterns of behavior that cause problems. And so when you see warning signs, it's good to know you may be dealing with someone that's not going to change, and the problems you see are going to be the problems you're going to get. And wishful thinking won't fix that. Megan Hunter: We also found that the majority of respondents believed they could change the person. And I think you'd also call that wishful thinking, Bill. But why does the brain convince us that we can influence this person enough to change who they are or how they treat us? Bill Eddy: Well, we like feeling special and feeling like, "Hey, I'm the only one that gets it with this person. I'm the only one that can change them. And I'm going to be a hero." And this is men feel this and women feel this. And it's like, "I'm going to fix her." And in fact, I think of one of the quotes, person says, "I came to the realization that having grown up in an alcoholic family, I had a codependent personality and I was going to fix her." And I just think that's so classic, especially if you've been in the role of being a fixer for the family or people at work. It's a tempting role. I also think it's a little bit of our cultural narcissism. We like to think we're really special and can accomplish things no one else can. Well, don't try to accomplish it in the area of changing somebody else's personality. Megan Hunter: Yeah, as you were talking, Bill, I thought of a recent case that was huge at the news in 2021. And it was the Gabby Petito and Brian... I don't recall his last name. That case where the young couple were traveling together around the US. Bill Eddy: Right. Megan Hunter: And I mean, talk about a toxic relationship. And I remember seeing when at first the young lady was in missing status and the country was looking for her and everyone was kind of on the edge of their seats, and not just in this country, but really around the world. I heard from people from many different countries about it. And I recall seeing those videos of this stop by the state patrolman, I believe it was in Utah. Bill Eddy: Yes. Megan Hunter: And I think the immediate bias was that the guy, the boyfriend is a bad guy, just because there's a problem. And I looked at it a little bit differently and I'm looking at the young lady and I have no idea because we're not diagnosing anyone, we're not labeling, we don't know what happened before that or anything. But I like to understand really if there are issues on both sides. And I think probably in this case there were. Did you have any of those same thoughts? Bill Eddy: Yeah, what I thought, because we were working on our domestic violence interviews during that time, and what I thought was, "Here's a guy who..." I mean, they met in high school, so they're young, in love, naive. And he seemed to be going through some mental health changes. And some people said he seemed to be odd in some ways at times. But what stood out to me is that he had obsessive love with her and that he wrote things to her and was taking her picture all the time. And that's a warning sign, the obsessive love. But what struck me about the state police stopping them is that she was in tears and said, "It's my fault." And they said, "Who started hitting?" And she says, "I did." And this is so common for victims of domestic violence to take responsibility for the situation. And so the police actually said, "I think that they needed to take her in." And they got him a hotel for the night. Because technically speaking, they were correct. She was the instigator. Then that would be the case. But if you saw the big picture, here's someone of course bigger than her, who was apparently already becoming violent with her, and they're isolated. And that's a key thing to me. When we say, "Don't make commitments for a year." I would say, "Don't go on any cross country trips alone for at least a year because you don't know what this person's capable of." And if they get upset over and over, they may not be able to control themselves. And she's isolated. So of course she's going to make excuses for him and not protect herself. She could have gotten out at that point. And I think somebody saw him hitting her. So there obviously was a problem, but she covered up and made it look okay. So that pattern, if you're a bystander, is realize things aren't always as they seem when one person says, "It's all my fault." Megan Hunter: Interesting. Yeah. It was just a sad and tragic outcome for both people and their families. And I just hope that other young people were paying attention to that, honestly. And it also brings up the thought about arranged marriage. And I know that most people would think that's a ridiculous notion, at least in modern culture. But I really wish that more parents, with wisdom, could have input into the marriage and partnership choices of their young adult children. Bill Eddy: It's an interesting concept. And I've been struck by the fact that in our culture, Western culture, we base love on who we should marry, and that Eastern cultures, India and other countries, with arranged marriages, I wondered a while back, "How did those turn out?" And by and large, they turn out fine. And so love may not be the answer. You may grow in love with someone who you've just met on your wedding day or however it works. And most of those have worked. But there's a key piece in here. And that is that the parents of the bride and groom do some checking out of the other family and of the other person. And I was once on a trip in Tanzania and they do that there to some extent, and they really check out the other family. And with high conflict people, they have a reputation in their family. But today in the United States and other Western countries, you often don't know the family, don't know the history, and you're marrying based on chemicals and love and maybe totally caught and blindsided. So I think arranged marriages certainly aren't having a worse success rate. And they may have a better success rate. Megan Hunter: Yeah and part of it could be expectations as well, your mindset. If you're from a culture with arranged marriage, you just know that this is how it is. And so you don't have this expectation perhaps of the falling madly in love and the wedding and the ring and all the things that we in Western cultures place as our highest value in many cases. So maybe there's an in between. But because we don't have that in between, that's why we wrote this book, Dating Radar. Now let's put it all together. And these three episodes we've just barely scratched the surface about the dangers of high conflict relationships. But we've talked about warning signs, also the ways they can jam your radar, and then where your own blind spots might be. So Bill, what are your last suggestions for putting it all together? Bill Eddy: Well, maybe more of a summary here is think about noticing warning signs of high conflict personalities. And these aren't bad people, evil people. These are people who may be quite successful. These can be actors and actresses. The can be company heads. These can be truck drivers, plumbers, anybody. Every occupation has some high conflict people. And we think of them as high conflict because they have targets of blame. And so they're in conflict with their targets of blame and you don't want to become their primary target of blame. And so in order to watch out for that, we talked about patterns of behavior, narcissists with extreme self-centeredness, anti socials who lie about where they are and where they're going. People with borderline personality types may be very controlling, fearful of abandonment so that there's more clinging and that gets quite uncomfortable, and sometimes turns into domestic violence in order to have coercive control over their partner. And then hysteric dramatic personalities, paranoid personalities, always suspicious of what you're up to. So that's the personality. Get familiar with some patterns, because they're so predictable. Those are the same patterns worldwide. And like I said, we're not out to make their lives miserable. But we don't want your life to be miserable. We'd rather them learn and change. And the second thing then that we've really emphasized is how they jam your radar. And this was the charm. All of these could be an okay relationship but there are warning signs to check out. And the survey, and we had over 600 people I think you said, Megan, that responded to that... Megan Hunter: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bill Eddy: Oh, and by the way, can they still respond to the survey? Megan Hunter: Yes, they can. And the link's in the show notes. Bill Eddy: Great. Okay. Dating-radar.com. So charm. They also reported this fake compatibility. And I think there was another phrase that you used with this in here, Megan. But anyway, I think of it as fake compatibility, because they pretend that they're interested in what you're interested in. And this is much more common than we realized. Then the overt sex and sensuality, and they're often in a hurry and people feel uncomfortable. It's like, "I don't want to have sex yet. But I don't want to lose this nice person." Well, you should be yourself. And if you're not comfortable, that should be an important part of decision making. Don't just try to please the other person. And protectiveness that they're going to be your hero, they're going to take care of you. And that could be a man or a woman who says, "Oh, I'll fix all your problems. I'll take care of you. I'll do this and that for you." Megan Hunter: "I'll protect you." Bill Eddy: Yeah. And so the knight in shining armor often turns out to be someone that has to be taken care of and has various problems. Megan Hunter: And tiptoed around. Bill Eddy: Yes, yes. So this is what jams your radar. And of course you want to have a healthy skepticism, take your time, watch for extremes for these. And I think one feedback we got on the survey I loved was the person said, "Don't look for a 10 on a scale of one to 10. Look for a seven or an eight. Because the 10s probably aren't true. They're too good to be true. They look too good." So get somebody who's real, has some imperfections, some blemishes who's a seven or an eight on that scale of one to 10. Then your blind spots. And that's what we've talked about today, low self-esteem, loneliness and grieving. Become a whole person before you go back into the dating world so that you're not vulnerable to people that are out of balance themselves. And then of course, the naive cultural beliefs. And I just think of all these songs, "I will follow you wherever you may go." Or, "I'll be watching you." I think there was that song Sting or something. Megan Hunter: Sting, I think. Yeah. Bill Eddy: Yeah, yeah. And I suddenly put those in a different perspective. Megan Hunter: Because you and I know too much. Bill Eddy: I know. A good song. Oh, well, the tune was good. But these kinds of things that obsessive behavior may be a warning sign, not love. Time and love doesn't change personalities, at least personality disorders. And you can't change another person. So in summary, I think those three things. Recognize warning signs, watch out that your radar isn't jammed, and don't be blinded by your own blind spots. Megan Hunter: What was the quote from the book that you mentioned? Bill Eddy: Oh, yeah. So we put this all together near the end. So we talk about these characteristics, then we said, "Add some naive beliefs about people changing their extremely bad behavior. Add sex, if you haven't already. Add the alleviation of loneliness and grieving, it feels even more right. And now you have the trifecta of a perfect relationship Nirvana. A recipe for happily ever after. Except you know it's actually a recipe for disaster." Megan Hunter: Yeah, there it is. Bill Eddy: So watch out for those beliefs. Megan Hunter: Right. That's it. Bill Eddy: We also say in the book is that there are healthy relationship signs and that there's things that make for healthy relationships. So that we're not just saying, "This is what doesn't work." We also want people to know what does work. And we're also talking about maybe 10% of people. But 90% of people you can have a happy relationship with. So I want to make sure you understand our book covers the positive as well as the warning signs. Megan Hunter: Right. And not every relationship is going to be as extreme as violence or even death. But it could be. So yeah, we just want to warn you and then help you find good relationships. So if you are dating someone or if you know someone who needs Dating Radar, they really need to read this book. And we're not trying to push this book, it sells plenty of copies. So it's not that, it's just that we really want to help you or anyone you know not have to endure this kind of pain. It's pretty awful stuff. So reading it is probably a nearly surefire way to avoid future difficulties, such as years in a high conflict divorce and an expensive and soul destroying custody battle, or a lot of financial loss and other kind of losses. But at the end of the day, it's really how you can avoid having your heart broken and the resulting loss of confidence in your decisions and loss of trust in other people, which is what happens with high conflict relationships. So you'll find a link to the book, which is available in paperback, ebook and audio, along with some articles and a link to a domestic violence course, the one Bill mentioned, where he and Annette Burns and Karen Adam interviewed 16 domestic violence experts. So it's just a good one for anyone. So listen in next week when we wrap up the Dating Radar series, where we'll be taking listener questions about Dating Radar. And you can send those questions to podcast@highconflictinstitute.com or submit them to highconflictinstitute.com/podcast. Tell your friends about us, please. And we'd be very grateful if you'd leave a review wherever you listen to our podcast. Until next episode, have a great week and keep learning about high conflict behavior so you can avoid it in your life. It's All Your Fault is a protection of TruStory FM. Engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Wolf Samuels, John Coggins, and Ziv Moran. 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