Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Should You Stay Together For Adult Children?

Transcript

Should You Stay Together For Adult Children? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today. We are going to be talking about
• 0:10
  when people stay married for adult children and this is more
• 0:14
  common than you might think, especially if you've not really
• 0:18
  thought about this, because your kids are young.
• 0:21
  But anyway, before we get to that, please do subscribe.
• 0:24
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• 0:29
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• 0:34
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• 0:36
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• 0:41
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• 0:46
  All right, anyway. So who stays together for adult
• 0:50
  children? Well, two types of people people
• 0:53
  that are extremely child-centered and people that
• 0:57
  are extremely anxious. So, these overlap, so also
• 1:01
  people who are very depressed. So, I mean, I guess we got three
• 1:03
  types of people to discuss. So there are many people in
• 1:07
  unhappy marriages and their children are literally adults,
• 1:11
  so they don't even live with the parents anymore.
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  But for some reason, the parents do not think that their own
• 1:16
  happiness is really worth much and therefore, they stay
• 1:21
  together for the kids telling themselves that the adult
• 1:23
  children will be upset, and sometimes they also tell
• 1:27
  themselves that they won't get as much time with the adult
• 1:29
  children. So yes, obviously, if the
• 1:32
  children do have to split Thanksgiving or Christmas, then
• 1:36
  you will not get as much time with the children, although they
• 1:38
  tend to kind of make it up. So like, they'll see, you know,
• 1:43
  you for one day and the other one for another day.
• 1:45
  But usually they would have just seen you both for one day and
• 1:49
  then gone and seeing their friends for another day.
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  You know, I mean, like kids try if they have good relationships
• 1:55
  with both parents, they do try to even it out.
• 1:58
  And if they have to kind of wiggle their schedule around a
• 2:01
  little bit, they will still see both parents for holidays, but
• 2:05
  Most people are not just doing it for the holidays.
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  I mean, I could get more into that and also of course, if you
• 2:11
  really worried about that than one might think kind of like, do
• 2:14
  you have anything else going on frequently?
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  Not like frequently you've been really pinning?
• 2:20
  All your hopes and dreams. I'm being extremely involved
• 2:22
  with the kids when they're adults and I really does not
• 2:25
  work well because like I've seen this happen with clients, the
• 2:28
  kids move like for a job or they you know just travel for their
• 2:34
  holidays or Or they hang out with the inlaws more than with
• 2:37
  you. And then like you know, if
• 2:39
  that's going to destroy your world, then you're going to end
• 2:41
  up having a pretty bad relationship with your adult
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  kit. So if your entire happiness is
• 2:47
  predicated on their involvement with you as adults that tends to
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  go extremely poorly and today's culture, it used to be a default
• 2:55
  that you could Guilt Trip your kids into doing anything.
• 2:58
  And there was a lot more obligation in parent-child
• 3:01
  relationships and much more filial Duty.
• 3:04
  That has a Operated in today's culture.
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  Ironically, the very same parents that always wanted the
• 3:10
  kids to be an individual and do whatever they want.
• 3:13
  You know, we're really thinking about the downside of that, when
• 3:16
  the kids say, well, I do whatever I want, remember like,
• 3:19
  that's how we roll. And so, then the kids do
• 3:21
  whatever, they want the parent somehow thought that, that would
• 3:24
  mean always hanging out with a parent, but guess what?
• 3:26
  It doesn't. So, anyway, um, I could do a
• 3:30
  million podcasts on that alone, but the point here is people
• 3:36
  that are telling themselves that their adult children are going
• 3:40
  to be massively impacted, like, at least the ones who are
• 3:43
  saying, I won't get time with them, or being honest with
• 3:45
  themselves, you know, then there's the ones who are super
• 3:48
  anxious and they're telling themselves that the adult
• 3:50
  children are going to be devastated and destroyed by the
• 3:54
  parents divorce. Well, that that should not
• 3:58
  really be the case. Sure?
• 4:00
  They'll be very upset, but I mean, people lose parents, you
• 4:05
  know, Parents died too and people recover, you know, I mean
• 4:10
  this is not going to destroy their life.
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  If it did, there would be a lot of problems there and your child
• 4:17
  would probably already have tremendous mental and emotional
• 4:20
  issues. You know if your child is even
• 4:23
  reasonably, I mean, if your child is out of the house,
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  truly, I mean like if your child is independent and they're an
• 4:29
  adult and and or, you know, they're only back in the house
• 4:33
  because they're still in college or like they're getting Their
• 4:35
  financial footing or something. But if they are able to do
• 4:38
  things like leave the house, get a job.
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  Engage with friends, then they are psychologically healthy
• 4:44
  enough to whether parents divorcing.
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  You know, I mean that is something that happens.
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  So why would you why would parents think that this would be
• 4:54
  so devastating to the child, really?
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  It's projection like they're very anxious and depressed.
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  They themselves are very terrified of a divorce.
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  They may have gone through a parents divorce when they were
• 5:04
  younger child. Then their children are now and
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  they are really also being kind of self-centered, you know, not
• 5:11
  in like the worst way, I guess. But all know self-centered is
• 5:14
  super good. They are overestimating their
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  importance in the life of the adult child quite honestly, you
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  know, and they are overstating. I see this in in a lot of
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  grandparents that come in and they're like a strange or
• 5:31
  something. And what they say is that the
• 5:33
  grandchild is going to suffer From not having the grandparents
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  involvement in their life and really they're not.
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  You know, I mean, they're not going to suffer that much as
• 5:43
  I've said before. Grandparents don't usually mess
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  up grandkids that much. They're older, they're mellower.
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  And the kid just views them as wacky instead of like anybody
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  who has any control over anything, they do.
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  So usually there's not much of a grandchild related reason to
• 5:58
  estranged from parents, unless, of course, they're abusive or
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  substance abusing or dangerous in some way, but Also like not
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  as big of a benefit as people think of having the grand
• 6:10
  parental involvement. It's a good thing but it's
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  certainly not a necessary thing. A necessary thing is to have a
• 6:15
  parent. Necessary thing is not to have a
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  grandparent because of of course, unfortunately many
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  people don't, you know, by virtue of the fact that the
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  grandparent is not a lot so it's the same thing.
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  When you're saying that like your divorce is going to like
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  destroy the lives of your adult. Children is kind of making
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  yourself like two important in a sense in In a way that isn't
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  really developmentally appropriate.
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  You know, I really don't know many adults who would say?
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  Yep, I'm 25. But I would like my parents to
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  stay on happily married forever because I really just want one
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  place to go to for Christmas and you know, it girl eyes, don't
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  fucking matter. You know what matters is like
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  those two days, a year that I come home for Christmas.
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  If you've raised even remotely a child with any sense of
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  morality, then want you to be miserable.
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  The worst thing is when people is, when kids think that parents
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  Together for them. I mean you just got to talk to
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  any kids whose parents did this and who, in any way implied,
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  explicitly or implicitly stated that they did this.
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  And the kid is just horrified, you know, I mean, they they
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  don't want that nobody wants that and they can pick up on it
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  too. So, I mean, even if you've not
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  implicitly explicitly stated it, it may be implicitly stated by
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  the fact that you're like, kind of unhappy constantly and
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  everything's about the kid. So the kid can conclude that the
• 7:32
  marriage is for the kid, you know, pretty much.
• 7:35
  Much, like that's the whole point and they feel terrible.
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  You know, any kid who grows up with Unhappily Married parents,
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  who are staying together for them wish that they didn't.
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  So, so, anyway, would be time this times, a thousand four
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  adult children, obviously, because they are out of the
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  house. I mean, they just want you to be
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  happy, you know, I mean, they don't want to think about, you
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  being sorrowful and miserable and it's a hell of a lot of
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  Burden. Because like, if they do know
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  that you're miserable and people are not as good actors.
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  As they think in this regard, Then they have to like, kind of
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  worried about you and think about how sad you are.
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  I think about like how they could never ever travel for
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  Thanksgiving ever. Even though it's like the only
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  long weekend, they get from work, you know, and they can't
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  go away, because their parents were fucking lose their minds
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  because their parents live for the holidays, because they're so
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  miserable the rest of the damn time.
• 8:26
  So this is not like a good thing to do to your kids.
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  Now also it does show your kids that you should stay miserable
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  forever. And that is certainly not the
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  sort of thing that Most people want to teach their children.
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  You may have already not shown them much of a good marriage
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  except in as much as you were a child center team, but you do
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  have the opportunity to do that later on.
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  If you remarry and you're with somebody happy so many people
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  say to me things in therapy, like yeah my mom and dad were
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  miserable but you know, they finally divorced.
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  Thank God. And, you know, my dad's married
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  to a really lovely woman, you know, and I'm happy for was
• 9:00
  never happy before. You know, or my mom, finally
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  found somebody that makes her happy and I'm So I'm so happy.
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  It's a good guy, you know, I don't have much for relationship
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  with him. So I met him when I was like, 20
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  something but, you know, he's a good guy.
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  Like I think of a more like a friend than a stepdad because I
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  met him when I was older. But, you know, he's a good guy.
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  Takes my mom out. If they travel, they do stuff.
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  Them really happy. She was always, so sad, you
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  know, and now, she's all right. People say shit like this all
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  the time in therapy. I've never heard anybody say,
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  you know what, a totally destroyed my life when my
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  parents divorced when I was 25 and I never really got over.
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  Over it. And what?
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  A Paris, selfish motherfuckers know, I mean, people say wow,
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  when my parents divorced, I thought what the hell took you
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  so long, you are always miserable.
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  And now for the people that have really kept their cards close to
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  their chest and their kids, don't know that they're
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  miserable, are those kids gonna feel more?
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  Blindsided sure. But, I mean, why don't you
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  deserve to be happy? Like if you have a discussion
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  with an adult child, it would be we grew apart, and we don't make
• 10:01
  each other happy anymore. And we win the second half of
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  our lives or less. We would like to, to still live
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  our best lives, you know, as we've always encouraged you to
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  do and that can be a very good template for them.
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  And a good role modeling of like, actually giving a shit
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  about happiness, you know, something that you may have for
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  gone in their earlier years, when you were martyring yourself
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  to staying together for their sake.
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  So depressed or anxious people. As I said, are the ones who tend
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  to overinflate. What a divorce would do to the
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  kids as well. As inflate how devastated they
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  would feel on the alternate holidays or whatever when they
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  didn't see the children, you know?
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  And, and this is the same with everything when you're depressed
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  and anxious, you see, negativity everywhere.
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  And you don't see the positivity.
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  So these are the people who will say now would never find anybody
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  anyway. And the kids would hate me and
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  they would just side with their other parent and so you know,
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  the rest of my old age would just be horrible.
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  Be a lonely Wasteland, like what, like, what are you saying?
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  Like How likely is that? Like People get through like
• 11:06
  such major horrible things, that happened to them and are
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  resilient and you would be the lone person to be completely
• 11:13
  alone. Isolated friendless,
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  relationship list. I mean, like, come on, you know,
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  it doesn't make any sense, you know, if you even have a cursory
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  you know, drive towards self-preservation.
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  This would not be what your life would look like.
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  And also there's all the other days in the year to visit your
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  children that aren't the holidays, you know, and if they
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  love you and if they're close to you, they're not Trying to cut
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  you out of their lives just because they don't see you as a
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  unit with their other parent. And quite honestly, many many
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  people that are in unhappy marriages, have done a lot of
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  handoffs of the kids over the years anyway and they've not
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  really parented together in a long time.
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  So it's like, you know, dad will take you to do these things.
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  And Mom will cook your meals and do these things, and the
• 11:56
  parenting is kind of individual anyway.
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  So it might just be, truly, a con, you know, continuation of
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  what's been going on. Anyhow for the majority of
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  people who are Or what I call divorced in spirit prior to a
• 12:07
  divorce, which is most people because they've already by the
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  age, that the kids are adults started to live fairly separate
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  lives and see the children, fairly separately.
• 12:16
  So anyway, hopefully this gave you something to think about
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  because the reality is that you you're a person and you deserve
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  to be happy and if you don't think you deserve to be happy,
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  I've recorded a lot and written a lot about why.
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  And it's always because of the same thing you didn't get
• 12:31
  treated super. Well as a kid and you saw a
• 12:33
  murdered parents, that didn't think they deserve.
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  To be happy. So for you happiness isn't like
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  a thing that you think is possible.
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  But yet it is like this is the only life you get, you know, you
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  don't deserve to be miserable and you and you want to break
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  the cycle of teaching, kids, that life is misery and
• 12:48
  obligation that maybe what you think that may be how you were
• 12:51
  trained. But how did that work out for
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  you pretty bad. So you might want to train your
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  kids and the exact opposite of that which is you deserve to be
• 12:59
  happy, you deserve to live your best life.
• 13:01
  You know. You deserve to be with somebody
• 13:03
  who you love you. Yes, certainly like there are
• 13:06
  obligations in the world and you know, we did stay together and
• 13:09
  gave you guys a great life to our best effort, you know.
• 13:13
  But now you're out your launched, we're very proud of
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  you, you are successful. You are independent.
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  And now, you know, now maybe we have a chance to pursue
• 13:23
  something different than a family unit.
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  That way in which the couple was was not working.
• 13:29
  The family may have worked, you know, but the couple didn't and
• 13:33
  now we are trying to pursue something in line.
• 13:35
  With our own values and interests because we're not dead
• 13:37
  yet, you know? And that is it's a really good
• 13:40
  lesson for your kids to learn. So yeah, I really don't like you
• 13:43
  know, it's sad to see people that are staying together for
• 13:45
  kids just like kind of bedding that these kids are going to
• 13:48
  like visit them on holidays and they're going to end up with
• 13:51
  like X more hours with adult children per year because they
• 13:56
  are sacrificing any possible happiness.
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  They could have on the altar of those minutes, you know.
• 14:02
  It's just really sad and this illusion I so this would be a
• 14:04
  good I want to discuss with your therapist if you have one, which
• 14:07
  you should, if you are on happily married and you have
• 14:11
  thought that you're just going to stay together endlessly
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  because, you know, parenting apparently doesn't end at any
• 14:17
  time now. I mean not that parent against
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  but you know people nowadays parent their 27 year olds like
• 14:22
  people used to parent their 7 year olds.
• 14:24
  So you know it's a cultural shift, you know, paradigm shift
• 14:29
  but it doesn't mean that your life has to like be a garbage
• 14:31
  fire, you know. And on that pithy note, I will
• 14:34
  end And I hope that you got something out of this guy's and
• 14:37
  I'll talk to you soon. Bye.