Latest / ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women / 174 // The Effect of Exercise on ADHD & Perimenopause, with Debra Atkinson

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174 // The Effect of Exercise on ADHD & Perimenopause, with Debra Atkinson · ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women

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Hey friends, welcome to the ADHD with Confidence podcast. I'm your host,
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Kelsey Spronk, and today I am joined by Debra Atkinson.
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She's a trainer, a speaker, a coach, and an exercise physiologist.
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She's also the founder of Flipping 50, and she's going to tell us all about
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what she does. So Debra, welcome to the show.
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Well, thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to hear all about how exercise affects the brain and how that's
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connected to things like menopause, perimenopause, ADHD,
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everything that we as women go through. It can be so much.
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But first, can you start us off by telling us a bit more about you and about what you do?
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Yes. Well, and I will let you know, too, it was a lot of fun to dig into preparation for this.
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So this is my 43rd year full time as a strength and conditioning coach,
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personal trainer back in the day before personal training was a thing.
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And I've taught at a university. I've internationally trained other trainers.
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And yet there's so much that you don't deep dive into a topic very often.
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So the opportunity to go back was huge for me, too.
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So I am also very excited about what we can bring to the table for all women,
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who are in any stage of menopause or beyond, and especially those who have ADHD
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maybe and know it, and those who don't.
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Because sometimes the signs and symptoms are very revealing,
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and we may leave a woman wondering if she has it, because there are some common denominators there.
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But I have been, as I said, in fitness for about 43 years.
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And I, you know, served everyone.
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So men, women, you know, young volleyball players that wanted to get off the
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bench and a 96-year-old who just wanted to be able to stand up with pain-free
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knees six times so that she could, I was at six, that was her line,
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didn't really want to exercise.
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But so I've served a lot of people.
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But when I was teaching at the university, I realized there was such a need
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in trainers to keep the good ones.
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We were finding our students would go out. I'd supervise interns.
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It was the last thing they did before they actually hit graduation.
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And so many of them were shocked to find in the real world they had to sell
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and market. And we didn't prepare them for that in a four-year degree.
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They don't get it in a certification.
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And so they'd say, I've got to get a real job. I don't want to do this. I don't want to sell.
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That's not why I started this. And I thought, what a crime. We're losing the really good students.
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They're leaving the industry. And so what we're left with is people who have.
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Sell and market, but may not have as much to offer. And I said, we can't have that.
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So I actually quit everything. I quit training, supervising trainers,
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working at a gym and the Department of Kinesiology and said,
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somebody's got to do this.
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So I can either sit here and complain and point what's wrong,
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or I can do something. So I chose the latter at 49.
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And it was a bumpy start. Let me tell you, in 2013, there wasn't as much help
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for building an online presence and business that there is now.
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But sometimes going through that really tight tube and squeezing through,
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once you get to the other side, there's a lot of growth opportunity you would
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not have had. So I'm grateful for that.
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But I learned that really quickly, I've got to be serving some client in order
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to be saying, here's what's working.
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So I said, okay, I'm going to teach trainers and coaches how to do this and
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build their business. And I will choose a niche.
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And I chose menopause because all the baby boomers had gone through and they're
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like, my doctor just says, well, welcome to menopause. That's what you get.
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That happens in menopause. And they were getting no solutions, no help.
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And thankful for our baby boomers. They're like, I'm not having that.
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Nope, that's not okay. So they have changed a lot of things for the better for many of us.
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I think it's why we now talk about menopause on public TV and Drew Barrymore
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will have a hot flash on TV.
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But, you know, thank you that we have that.
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I started working with them and that business, and that one just took off because
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no one else was serving them.
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And we are all very well aware that now everybody's marketing to menopause.
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It was a lonely place for me at first.
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Nobody was doing it. In fact, it made me wonder, is there a demand for this?
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And then suddenly, of course, there was.
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But what I've realized is, you know, if you're here and you're a woman,
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There's no more powerful health influencer in the world. So you may be here
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to solve your own problem, but it's the ripple effect that you taking care of
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you has on so many other people that keeps me getting up in the morning when
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there are headaches running a business.
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And that's really why I'm here here as well.
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Thank you for sharing all that. I think to what you said about,
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you know, before it was just welcome to menopause, almost treated as a bit of a joke.
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And then you look at I've had a few conversations with people lately who have
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ADHD, they're reaching menopause, and things are just falling apart.
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The strategies, the systems, the life that they had before is no longer working for them.
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And so to have someone like you step into that and say hey you know what I'm
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going to partner with you we're going to figure out ways that that we can work
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with this and through this I think that's beautiful it's something that even with ADHD
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I feel like a lot of what was said
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before even is still said now you know things where
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people don't really understand what it's like they don't understand
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the nuances or they say really ignorant things like well you can't possibly
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have ADHD because you did well in school or you're too successful or you're
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smart and these things and I think a part of it when you talk about,
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we need to educate others and that's not an easy role to play but it is a really
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important one and like you said that change from 2013 to now and how much people
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are talking about menopause,
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ADHD as well. There's still a lot of stigma, but I believe that we can,
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with time, with conversations, with podcasts like this, with speaking events
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and things like this, we can start to work on that.
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And I think there's so much hope in that for women. So how does exercise affect
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the brain? Before we get into specific types of exercises or different stages,
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how does exercise affect our breathe.
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You know, so positively. And there is, you know, it doesn't matter what kind
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of exercise you do or you don't like, every kind of exercise has positive benefits.
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So we can get in later to what's on the continuum, what I say was quote unquote best.
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But right now, it's in a way gives you an opportunity and a window.
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If we said acute, like what are you doing today?
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Going for a walk or doing some cardio on an elliptical or whatever it might
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be, it gives you a window where if you exercise today, me sitting here,
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you sitting there, we're sharper.
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We can focus. Our brains can organize a little bit.
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There's a difference between somebody who does and doesn't have ADHD,
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and that is that some of us, before we take action, we need to make a list.
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We need to organize it? Like, what am I going to do first?
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And there is something to those that kind of don't have that ability to focus
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enough to make the list that if you have ADHD, you may actually do better.
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Go for the walk first. The activation then helps you to frame and come back
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here and pull all those loose ends and stay on a narrow path so that you can make the list.
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And now you can actually do a task
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much more better. I think so many of us actually do better doing this.
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But there is a certain subgroup that definitely need it. And you probably,
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if it's you, you've identified yourself that this is so true.
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You may be, you know, think about our Western world and what we value.
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And we make people sit from 9 to 5 and focus. And you get praised for coming
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in early and staying late.
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Well, the truth is, our brains never worked that way very well.
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Well, we have these 90-minute cycles and our attention span will wane,
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you know, and somebody is going to reach that point sooner. Maybe somebody can
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stretch it a little bit longer, but it's about 90 minutes.
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You'll start, go, bing, bing, bing, you know, in a squirrel.
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And, you know, we move around like that. And so if we could plan it and take
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a break, the activity is sending circulation. If we send circulation, we're sending oxygen.
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So we all know that oxygenated blood to muscle does huge benefits for exercise,
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benefit performance, and it does the same thing for our brain.
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So it helps us to really focus on the task or the performance that we want.
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So whether that's learning, it's focus and organization, it's memory to some
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extent, all of those benefit dramatically.
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I think the other thing is motivation that really comes to mind.
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And there, I think, with any one of us, we're motivated if we're interested. It's far easier, right?
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But there are things that you and I have to do that I'm not motivated to do
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my taxes, to track the books and the numbers. That's not my jam.
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I'm sure somebody else is saying, I love to, I love to.
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I'm like, I want your number, by the way. But, you know, we are simply motivated
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much more by interest. And then I think some of us way more so.
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But it will help you if you can get the exercise to initiate the thing that
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needs to be done, regardless of your motivation. Motivation is so fickle.
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Yeah. And I know we said we were not going to swear, but she's the B word.
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So in case that works for you.
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It does. It does. Yes. So we don't want to rely on motivation.
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And I don't think we want to rely on willpower either.
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That's not it. It's doing everything we can to help ourselves naturally come
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to it and be interested in wanting to do it. Because most of us,
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we want a task to be done, even if we're not exactly excited about the task itself.
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Yeah, so those are some of the biggest ways. Yeah, go ahead.
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No, sorry, I was just going to say that piece about motivation really resonates, especially with ADHD.
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But like you said, for everybody, of course, we want to do things that are more
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interesting, that we feel passionate about, or we have some sort of interest
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in, and especially with ADHD, interest, novelty, urgency, creativity.
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And I think something else that often gets in the way, especially with exercise and that, you know.
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That word consistency that can be a little bit triggering for those of us with
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ADHD is it's hard to when we have a perfectionistic perspective on it needs to be four days a week.
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And then on the off days, I'm going to do 10,000 steps and then I'm going to
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eat and we can go all or nothing so often and feel like we haven't achieved
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this perfect goal that we've set out to do.
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Then what's the point? And I find that can be a big hurdle for a lot of us is getting past that idea.
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It has to be perfect or even the word consistency. I've, you know,
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I've recently tried a different method of consistent exercise and it's looked,
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like trying to do less, but over a longer period of time.
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Let's just do three workouts a week, but let's try to do it for the next eight
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weeks and have it be something that's a little bit more sustainable and achievable
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has been, has been really helpful.
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Yeah. Go ahead.
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I think, too, it's important to say that there's acute benefits for the brain.
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And then, you know, we all love acute or instant gratification.
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We're too used to Amazon being at the door today.
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Right. But yeah, there's also a cumulative effect.
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And so to anyone listening, no matter who, you know, if you're thinking,
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I don't think I can keep this up.
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So there's no use doing it. But I think that actually I'd love for you to reframe
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that because just going for a walk is, number one, you know,
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very low in terms of resistance.
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You don't have to prepare. You don't have to change your shoes.
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You wear what you've got unless you're wearing heels.
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But it's, you know, something that doesn't require skill coordination.
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Simply walking, any self-selected pace,
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can change and give you a window of opportunity where if you need some focus
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time, you need time to learn something, you've got a little window of opportunity.
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So if you do go for a walk, you want to think, how can I use this really well?
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It will give you that window. So if you're giving a speech, you're doing a presentation
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at work, and you need to be game on.
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Ideally, you'd be active within a couple of hours of doing that.
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So speakers will often get up in the morning before they do a keynote at nine
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and go for a walk or a run or whatever their thing is.
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But they're getting that kind of decrease, that overabundance of adrenaline and,
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hyperactivity, helping themselves come back in and yet keep just a little bit
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of that edge and focus on what needs to be done.
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And then the cumulative effect is just compounding what you've done so that
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each time you go for the walk, you do the consistent piece of movement,
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you get a little bit better result when you do it. Hmm.
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So can you talk a little bit more about that, the cumulative results as opposed
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to acute? So working out once has benefits, working out consistently,
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however many times that is, will build on those results.
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Is that affecting our body's ability to absorb oxygen, dopamine?
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How is that different? What's happening in that?
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Yeah, so the best way probably is to say it's like strengthening a muscle, only we're not.
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In this case, talking about the muscle. So when you first pick up a weight,
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what's going to happen is you're going to gain a little strength.
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You're probably actually, in the meanwhile, you're tearing the muscle down first
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before it gains strength.
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When you do that repeatedly you've gained a cumulative effect of strength and
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now you're repeatedly coming back to do the same thing,
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and you're gonna have better results because the brain and the connection between
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the muscle are better when you go for a one single walk you've given yourself,
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i've got a break i've got circulation i'm able to focus i can be on task for a period of time.
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When you do that, repeating it regularly, you are teaching yourself kind of a cue.
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Here's the outcome. So you're giving yourself that repeated cue.
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I know this works. I need a break.
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I need to go for a walk or put on music and you're dancing. The one thing I do find with.
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The studies on ADHD and exercise is that the fewer decisions you have to make
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when it comes to the exercise you're going to do, the better.
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So you want to get into a habit, and we often will say we want diversity.
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I want you to change it up.
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For somebody with ADHD, we may want you to have fewer decisions to make and just know already.
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So you've got to plan and you're not having to choose, okay,
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I've got this 10 minutes or 30 minutes, if it might be, am I going to go for
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a walk or should I use the elliptical or, you know,
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we want, maybe you're changing it up and it's always the walk that you do before
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you do an activity, but you're changing it up by the music you're listening to.
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And so that'll change your pace generally because we tend to go with the beat
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of the music, might change your mood a little bit depending on what you pick.
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But the basics, the foundational pieces always being there will make it always easy.
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So you're not thinking, you know, there is an example where this,
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because of the components of fitness, I want you to do strength training.
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I also want you to do that cardio, the going for the walk and getting the movement in.
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So your activity block of time ideally doesn't change. It's always going to be there.
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We might need to walk every day, every morning, and have that be like,
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this is your coffee. Just like that, you're probably going to do a habit.
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Right. And then strength training gets an add some other time.
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But I think the more you switch your block of time from some days it's strength
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and some days it's yoga and some days it's walking.
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We've thrown a little mix in that might be too much for ADHD.
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It's, there's too many things, too many variables. It gets thrown off and then
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you have to think about, oh, I didn't do yesterday. So what do I do today?
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It's just easy. If it's straight up, I walk every day at this time.
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If you have a dog, you're set, right? Your dog, thank your dog,
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right? Because you got to do that consistently, you know, nothing changes.
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I think that's a really good reminder to of taking away some of the barriers
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of initiating a task and like you said that reminder and and there's no shame
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in this and there's nothing wrong with this it's just understanding,
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how our brains work and removing that resistance because I agree sometimes all
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you know I used to go on to a fitness app I was using but then I would want
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to switch to YouTube and then I would spend 20 minutes searching for the right
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workout and by then you know my kids were,
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awake or whatever it was and that I'd missed my my opportunity and so I found
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even with what you're talking about I have a printed,
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eight-week calendar I have my rest days my mobility days my strength training
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I have it all in there and I even chose in advance,
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which workout videos I'm doing on those days and if I you know in the moment
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see a different one and I change fine but I know I'm not going to spend all
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that time searching for it and yes the idea of you know going for a walk
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every day and having that consistency, if that's something that people are able
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to do and making it part of your routine.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So can you talk a little bit about the different types of exercise and what
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you recommend, whether somebody's starting off or they're further along in their fitness journey?
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What can you tell us about the different types of exercise.
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Yeah, absolutely. Well, notoriously, you know, the blankets are cardiovascular
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exercise, and we can qualify under that umbrella anything that gets your heart pumping,
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beyond, you know, sitting here, sitting on the couch. So that,
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Walking still would qualify as cardiovascular. It's a lower level,
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depending, you know, if you decide of going power walking and I'm going to do
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it up a hill and I'm going to wear a weighted vest, it suddenly turned into
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a greater cardiovascular intensity, but it still serves you.
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So we're talking swimming, running, biking, any of those, lots of those things are rhythmic.
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So you're kind of, you get started and you're doing them on repeat.
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But there are also many people familiar with boot camps.
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So on the far end of that, that would be higher intensity interval training.
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So you're getting breathless and then you're completely taking a break.
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You're getting breathless you're completely taking a break so that you can breathe
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through your nose again and those little bursts are only up to about 30 seconds
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you don't need to do long intervals and a lot of people who really,
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have not bonded yet with exercise so we say that softly as opposed to hating it.
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Actually find i can do anything for 30 seconds i would much rather do that,
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get it over with, and be done in 20 minutes, then prolong it,
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you know, for a longer period of time.
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So you've got to test which of those appeals to you most.
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But there is some studies that will talk about high-intensity interval training,
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really has a great payback for BDNF.
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So promoting a neurotransmitter that helps us with learning plasticity.
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And I think of that like.
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Imagine you've got in your brain all these walls where we've got outlets and
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we have these cords, the plug-ins, not plugged in. They're laying on the floor.
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And when we exercise and we get more plasticity, it's like some of those get
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plugged in. Like, okay, we're rebooting.
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We're focusing a little bit better on all cylinders.
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There's a greater feeling of that. Like, I am sharper.
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After high-intensity interval training than after moderate exercise or even
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lower exercise like walking.
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On the other hand, if you need to reduce your cortisol level, it's been stressful.
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You know, I just, I'm at an 11 on a 1 through 10 scale.
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Going for a walk actually reduces our cortisol level. So the circulating cortisol
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in our body will come down.
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Your body is not going to make a signal to create more cortisol for the exercise
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because the intensity is lower.
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So that's the benefit of kind of the highs and the lows are the most beneficial
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things for a woman over 40 to be doing.
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And for those who've grown up kind of in a moderate zone or were taught to do
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that, it's got the least amount of benefits.
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However, if that is your jam, you love a good cardio class or you love doing
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cardio, it's not don't ever do it. It's just pay attention to putting the highs and the lows in there.
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See how you feel with those because you may start bonding with those other activities
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as well and get a little bit more benefit for your brain.
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So if you needed to come back and focus, high-intensity interval training might
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be great for you to get a couple really solid blocks of time where you can focus on a task done.
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Strength training is the next. Sorry. Yeah.
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I just wanted to ask you a question about that. So you were talking about high
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intensity versus low intensity, something like walking. If you're struggling
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with high cortisol levels, walking or a low intensity activity might actually be better in that time.
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And you were saying that the least effective is moderate intensity. Was that correct?
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Yeah. For all purpose reasons. So we were looking at it as for body composition,
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for increasing muscle or decreasing fat, which is what we're talking about with body composition.
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For cardiovascular benefit, we're actually getting more by either doing a great
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base and foundation of walking at low level most of the time,
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and then doing high-intensity interval training has been shown to enhance our
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cardiovascular fitness in about five or six weeks.
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So it's very rapid to get results.
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And it takes, we're talking five minutes a week of total hard time.
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The rest is your warm up, your cool down and the time recovering in between.
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So it's, yeah, very short.
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So can I just ask with that then, so as far as high intensity,
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that's what you were talking about earlier when you're saying you're going really
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hard for 30 seconds and then taking a break and then repeating that several times.
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Exactly. Yes. Okay. So whether that's you're on a treadmill and putting it on
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incline, maybe walking with a weighted vest to help you get breathless, or you're...
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Maybe at home, no equipment, and you're doing jump training from a squat, repeatedly jumping up.
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And try 20 in a row, and you'll find very quickly it doesn't take 30 seconds to get breathless.
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So no equipment does work, too. And all you're after is breathless.
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And someone may be thinking, what should my heart rate be?
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It really doesn't matter. What I would suggest you do is breathless never lies.
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If you have a heart rate monitor on, you can associate it, but look at it after
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and say, what was my heart rate? What did it get to? As opposed to reaching
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for it. If you're breathless, you're breathless.
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You're right on.
25:53
Can I, I just have more questions about this. This is fascinating.
25:55
So as far as high intensity, those 30 seconds going breathless.
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What makes that more beneficial? Is it because you're breathing heavier,
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therefore you're taking in more oxygen, you are increasing your capacity for
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oxygen? Does it have to do with that? What makes it more beneficial?
26:14
Yeah, great. So you almost nailed it right there on the head.
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So a test that we use to test your cardiovascular fitness, if I was going to
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bring you into the lab, we call it VO2 max.
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And so in the last few years, we've heard a lot more about longevity than we
26:29
ever had before and tying our components of fitness to that.
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So your volume of oxygen consumed per kilogram per milliliter.
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So it's milliliters of oxygen consumed per kilogram of body weight.
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I tested that semester after semester with class after class for 15 years and
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taught students how to do this.
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We don't, you and I, really want to go do that because it's uncomfortable.
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You're hooked up with a mask. You're breathing in pure oxygen.
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And you have to measure the expiration.
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And so by the end, you're drooling, your nose pinned together.
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It's not attractive, just let me say.
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I did actually get to try that for the first time the other day at a health
27:15
clinic that I go to. They offered me a few free sessions to try out.
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And the mask, though, it was very uncomfortable. I was not hooked up properly,
27:23
so I could hardly breathe as it was.
27:25
By the end, they fixed it. And now I thought, you know, I need to try again.
27:29
I need to empty that tank of oxygen.
27:32
Yes, yes. So we have what we call field tests.
27:37
So much easier for you if you're at home, you don't have a metabolic cart and
27:42
potentially a doctor standing close by or a treadmill that will do what we need it to do.
27:49
But you can do these, and we do simple ones like go to a track,
27:54
walk a mile, and there are tables that will tell you based on your interpretation,
27:59
your age, your gender, where do you fall and why you would want to increase it.
28:03
But those little things, or getting breathless, and then at breathlessness,
28:08
where's your heart rate?
28:10
And then standing still, recover, and a minute later, what's your heart rate again?
28:14
And we look for how quickly or how much did your heart rate drop?
28:19
And if you are at 20 beats or more, dropping from high to that one minute later, you're in great shape.
28:27
But if you're not there yet, that's great pre-testing. Now let's put you to
28:33
work. Let's do some training and help you get in better shape.
28:38
So as we can consume more oxygen, every tissue in our body, including the brain,
28:45
is getting basically more nourishment.
28:48
That's the fuel being delivered to it. So we are going to essentially...
28:55
Keep ourselves from getting cobwebs anywhere.
28:58
We're going to, you know, reverse aging in somewhat, you know,
29:02
be able to look at our biological age versus our chronicological age is going
29:08
to be so much better at the muscle tissue, connective tissue,
29:11
the brain tissue as well.
29:13
So we need circulation. It's why the exercise is beneficial.
29:17
But if you're in better shape as you go for that walk, you're getting even better circulation.
29:23
The arteries and the capillaries are in better shape to deliver it.
29:30
That's such great news, right? As we work on it, it will even increase our results
29:35
as we continue to do that.
29:37
I think that's really great news. And I'm also very curious.
29:39
So if I'm being honest, I much prefer strength training, weight training. That is my go-to.
29:47
That makes My heart's saying so that's wonderful. Okay. And yet if you want
29:52
to put me on a treadmill, I'm like, I'm out of here.
29:56
But as far as that high intensity and going breathless piece,
30:00
how does that relate to strength training and weight training?
30:06
When you say, how does it relate to it? Like in terms of results,
30:09
if we were going to compare and contrast the results for the outcome?
30:13
More so when you're talking about, you were talking about cardiovascular and
30:17
you were saying that high intensity is the best unless you have high levels
30:20
of cortisol, then you might want to go for a walk, bring that down.
30:24
And moderate was the least effective. Yeah.
30:28
What about with strength training? I've been hearing a lot.
30:31
I've followed, you know, Stacey Sims. I've been listening to all these different
30:34
things and I'm trying to understand.
30:36
There's been so much information out there about, you know, between four and
30:39
six reps, you want to be maxing out at the end, progressive overload.
30:44
There's just been so many things. So can you break it down for us as far as
30:47
understanding what is best?
30:49
Yes. And let's be sure that my answer here is inclusive to anybody listening.
30:55
So if you're not yet lifting weights, I'm going to speak to you.
31:00
So don't go away. Don't stay with us.
31:02
And if you're lifting weights, I'm also talking to you because I think it's
31:07
also really important that we don't feel like we have to continue to escalate
31:11
and escalate. At some point, we are all going to reach a point of maintenance.
31:15
Your joints won't allow you to lift any heavier. A condition may not allow you to lift any heavier.
31:21
You may have arthritis. You may have been in a car accident.
31:25
And so one joint is not going to tolerate it. So.
31:29
Let's start here. In March of 2026, the American College of Sports Medicine, ACSM,
31:37
who writes position statements for exercise that are followed by academics,
31:43
by coaches, by personal trainers, by individuals like myself who teach kinesiology.
31:48
That's what we teach based on those guidelines for resistance training for kind
31:55
of healthy adult people between, say, 18 and 65.
32:01
After that, we would qualify it as older adults.
32:04
So just to give you an age range, they hadn't been changed since 2009. So 17 years.
32:10
It was time. And the very wise cabinet of people that came together,
32:16
know that in 40 years, and I give you that time because that's when I was sitting
32:22
in a classroom as an undergrad, the statistics of people actively supporting
32:27
their metabolic health with exercise has not changed.
32:31
There are more trainers than ever there's a gym on every corner and yet.
32:38
We're not more active more than 80% of women will admit they're not doing the
32:42
minimum of twice weekly resistance training to affect their metabolic health
32:47
and when I say metabolic health I don't mean looking good I don't mean going
32:51
sleeveless I mean not dying because of disease
32:55
we're not helping ourselves do that so So.
32:59
The fact that if you're not exercising, you are not alone, but let's get you
33:04
on the other side, okay? Let's be the 20 and make it 21 to 22 percent.
33:09
Little by little, we will get there.
33:11
But I think it was so intimidating. The list used to be this guideline and that and this.
33:18
And it was, like you said, got to be progression. And it's got to be this many
33:22
sets, this many repetitions.
33:25
And then every trainer has their own opinion. And so right now,
33:30
the good and the bad of social media is you have all those opinions coming at
33:34
you at once all day, every day.
33:36
And so a lot of us will, when faced with too many choices, sit in the middle
33:42
of the room and spin, not doing any of it.
33:45
So here's really what the facts say.
33:49
And the guidelines came back to twice weekly is enough.
33:54
So it's not just the minimum. And what I want to emphasize from the research
33:58
that I've done on combining physiology of exercise with physiology of menopause
34:03
is twice weekly for a lot of women is optimal.
34:07
It's not just minimum, it's optimum because we struggle to recover when we're
34:14
going through hormonal changes.
34:16
And we seem to, life throws us all the middle of life things too.
34:21
So there are stressors, there are, you know, young kids, older kids,
34:26
aging parents, all of it is just right there at one time.
34:30
So if you're not recovering, but you are doing more exercise,
34:33
you could be finding you have more fatigue and you're doing more harm, not more good.
34:40
So the key is, for anybody here listening...
34:44
There's no right or wrong. Measure yourself. Watch yourself.
34:48
Am I sleeping better? Is my body weight going the direction I need it or want
34:52
it to go based on the effort I'm giving?
34:55
Is my body composition going the right direction? Is my appetite good? Is my focus better?
35:01
Because all those things should be true. If you're in your sweet spot and it
35:05
will change for you, what you could do and got great results doing at 30 or
35:11
35 may not work at all at 55.
35:14
So be willing to pivot because midlife asks you to a lot.
35:20
So be ready to respond with that.
35:23
So twice weekly minimum. Can you do more? Yes. Do you need to?
35:28
Not for muscle, not for bone, but you may like to, and you may feel like maybe
35:35
it gives me just a little more edge of fitness if I do it.
35:39
Some of us love to exercise and we've got to pull you back a little bit.
35:43
And others are, no, I'd rather do something else, like go to the dentist.
35:48
But we want you to do that. We want you to do that minimum. We really need you
35:54
to because it's going to make a huge difference in the way that you age.
35:57
It's so So important.
36:00
What that guideline change meeting also said is progression is important,
36:05
but for a beginner, it really doesn't matter.
36:08
We just want you doing it. So if you start a certain workout and you're still
36:12
doing that workout three months from now, that is really no progression, right?
36:17
But it's better than not doing anything.
36:21
So they really were making it easy and trying to clarify, get started.
36:29
And so for a beginner. So if you've been lifting for a while and you have history.
36:34
I will argue that we do want some progression.
36:37
We want to begin to say, how does the workout I did on Monday,
36:42
how does that impact what I choose to do on Thursday or what I'm ready to do?
36:46
And how does this week impact what I'm ready to do next week?
36:50
We want some relationship there, but when you start, we just want to create the habit.
36:56
We just want you to be codependent because we want you to say,
37:00
why would I ever stop this? Because it feels so good.
37:03
Everything's getting better. When it's within reach, when it's something that
37:07
feels possible, you feel like you can succeed and then you want to keep going.
37:12
When something feels so unattainable, like you said, with social media and all
37:16
the trainers and all the comparison and all the things you see about tracking
37:21
and progressive overload and all these different things all at once,
37:24
it can feel so overwhelming.
37:25
So just that understanding of it doesn't have to be,
37:29
perfect prescription of what you
37:31
do moving your body like you said it it compounds those benefits as you go,
37:37
i wanted to clarify when you talk about resistance training that strength training
37:41
and you said two times a week is enough and specifically for menopause that
37:46
that's actually optimal,
37:48
does that mean that if you're not in menopause is two times a week still optimal,
37:56
or what would you recommend for that and how how can someone tell like when you're talking about,
38:01
you know recovery and stress and you know are the metrics showing what they
38:05
need to do you have more energy and mental clarity and is your appetite good and all of that
38:11
what should we look out for because I find for myself like I have I have young
38:15
kids they're three five and seven,
38:18
and you know my three-year-old will be up in the middle of the night and I'm
38:20
tired and and I actually found about a year ago,
38:24
So I did the opposite of what I've always done.
38:26
I've always been like, yeah, like I need to work up five, six times a week.
38:29
You know, let's go, let's go, let's go.
38:31
And I let myself rest. I let myself prioritize sleep for a period of time.
38:36
And it was crazy because that did, had more positive effects than all of that training did.
38:44
And I think it's difficult because how we've grown up is, you know,
38:49
restrict, restrict, restrict cardio all the time.
38:52
You got to be, you got to be doing something all the time. And,
38:55
and that understanding of how important rest is, how do we know and how long,
39:00
like when you're saying,
39:02
you know, finding your sweet spot, how long does it take to figure out whether
39:06
what you're doing is optimal or not?
39:09
Yeah. Great. So we just talked about,
39:12
two parts. One, the acute. So first of all, you know it was too much.
39:18
If you feel like a nap after exercise, you're in the wrong place,
39:23
right? So that was too much for the moment you're in right now.
39:27
And we have to be clear on that.
39:29
So maybe with a three-year-old who was up all night, you know,
39:33
that wouldn't have happened on another day.
39:36
So just realize it could be the moment literally, or it could be the moment
39:40
of perimenopause is really having her way with me.
39:45
And this is, you know, something that's lasting weeks or months.
39:49
It is kind of as unique as your thumbprint.
39:53
Every woman's journey through menopause. But acutely,
39:57
after exercise, you should have a mood boost because you've released neurotransmitters,
40:03
not only BDNF that's giving you some focus and concentration for a task, but also,
40:10
dopamine and serotonin,
40:12
and potentially oxytocin. So those are the feel-good hormones,
40:17
and they are because we're exercising.
40:20
Maybe if we also combine it with going outside, we're with a friend,
40:23
or we're with a pet, we're getting all of those pieces.
40:27
And if those are up, cortisol is down a little bit. So you also feel a little
40:31
bit more resilient, like you put your cape back on, ready to jump off the couch again.
40:37
So all those things should be true.
40:39
If you have any sleep issues, they may be supported and resolving.
40:45
You can get to sleep better, stay asleep a little longer, you're not waking
40:49
up too early, pending there's no three-year-old waking up, right? So all of that.
40:54
But if you have no sleep issues, even people who don't will say,
41:01
I am sleeping so much more soundly.
41:05
And so it's a little aha that you may not have expected. to the appetite and the cravings.
41:10
A lot of women will have kind of an appetite issue that maybe they're not hungry
41:17
at meals when they should be, but they are craving when ideally they wouldn't be.
41:21
Salt or sugar, why is it that we never crave kale and salmon, right?
41:27
But those things start to regulate as well because you're in your sweet spot.
41:31
When we are using muscle, it's like a blood sugar regulator. It's like a muscle sink.
41:38
And so blood sugar from food that we eat goes there to get stored right away.
41:44
And the more you move that muscle, taking it for a walk, as well as doing the
41:49
resistance training to build it in the first place, all of those benefit you.
41:53
Stable energy through the day also means you're going to sleep better at night.
41:58
So you don't really want to go to bed exhausted. You want to go to bed tired,
42:02
ready to sleep. But there's a difference there between the two.
42:06
And cravings generally will dissipate because often they are a kind of an indicator.
42:12
Either you are missing a micronutrient at a meal, maybe not enough protein or
42:17
not enough fat, something to help keep you sated, not enough fiber.
42:21
But also the blood sugar regulation will help in between meals as well for you.
42:27
And then you're looking at I'm gaining strength, right?
42:31
I mean, if you've been doing it for two to three weeks, even as a beginner,
42:36
you know what it's like being the first time if you're a virgin within three
42:39
weeks, you're seeing a difference.
42:42
You're picking up a heavier weight, most likely than you did the first week,
42:46
even just doing two workouts a week.
42:48
So that's a sign. And if it's not getting a little bit easier or you're picking
42:54
up a slightly heavier weight, then I would do a check on that.
42:58
And maybe you've done a little too much, or also might be telling you.
43:03
I think I could do more. It's not a bad thing to finish feeling like,
43:08
I feel like I could have done more.
43:10
Error on the conservative side when you start. There is no need for injury.
43:14
So one of the things that does happen for a beginner, for anybody here,
43:19
between about six and eight weeks, and I would say, let's do two months, eight weeks,
43:26
There is no rushing the neural connection between your brain and muscle recruitment.
43:32
So if you haven't lifted before, your body is learning that new pattern,
43:37
that movement pattern that's foreign to you. You haven't done it before.
43:41
And so an experienced lifter who's learning a new exercise or doing it in a
43:46
different way, I'm standing now, not sitting now.
43:49
I'm doing dumbbells now, not a machine now.
43:52
Still, there's a connection there. We can't rush. So going light,
43:56
keeping it light is smart, but also going heavy does not get you better results.
44:02
And down the road may actually have led to something that may cause an injury
44:08
because you have a faulty foundation. We didn't build it strongly enough yet.
44:12
Connective tissue is going to be a challenge for us as we go through menopause
44:16
because this estrogen declines.
44:19
It doesn't have the insurance policy that it used to. So that's an important
44:23
distinction too. Back to your question.
44:27
On Stacey Sims and she's known for the statement, lift heavy,
44:33
you know, and here's the thing.
44:35
I think even she has backed off of that a little bit and she wants that to be
44:40
true because there probably is some more neural component even to it that supports
44:47
stronger muscle, stronger activation.
44:50
And yet for you and for me, we each have our own get to the healthy that we safely can,
44:57
and then we'll know because we start to have more aches and pains or we get
45:00
that little niggle, that hint that we're just really close to an injury so we can back down.
45:06
So learning to progress at the right pace, you can pull back before we actually do have an injury.
45:13
But we all start light and light is determined by repetition range.
45:18
So anybody who's hoping I'll give you, how many pounds is that? I can't.
45:22
Unfortunately, you've got to play just a little bit.
45:25
So if I say for a beginner, you can go up to 30 reps is where we as strength
45:32
and conditioning coach say between 5 and 30 reps, you can get benefits.
45:37
I don't like to go that high because I think we look then at wear and tear on joints.
45:43
So why do that? And particularly if you have arthritis, we don't want that.
45:49
So we want a sweet spot. 15 to 20 repetitions is kind of a good starting place.
45:54
And when you're a beginner, if you have about five left in the tank, you can stop there.
46:01
We call it reps in reserve, or RIR.
46:05
And if you're more advanced, you need to get closer, like only one or two left in the tank.
46:11
And if you like to go to complete muscle fatigue, you can, but don't have to.
46:17
So if you are now, I've been lifting maybe for three months,
46:21
I like at least that as a foundation.
46:24
It gets safer. You kind of know, how much weight do I need?
46:28
But now you can decrease your repetitions, maybe to 10 to 12.
46:33
So in order to reach fatigue there versus 20, it's got to be heavier, right?
46:37
So you're going to stay there for several weeks, maybe a few months.
46:42
And you might find that even up to 48 weeks, we find you can gain bone density,
46:47
lifting at moderate levels of about 15 repetitions.
46:51
So there used to be a message, and I used to say it, but we've seen so much
46:57
more science that you've got to go heavy in order to impact bone density.
47:02
We've seen that's not true.
47:05
It is safe for women to go heavy, even who are postmenopausal with osteoporosis.
47:11
That's what the research recently has shown.
47:14
But it doesn't mean only going heavy or doing high impact impacts bone.
47:19
It means that's now in our playground.
47:22
But we all start light and progress and maybe that will be a part of what you can do.
47:28
And maybe it won't because of something else.
47:31
And so it's nice to know that.
47:33
It's not exclusive. Just because one study showed this works doesn't mean the
47:38
other things don't work. So it's an important question to ask when you're getting information.
47:44
So heavy is nice. Heavy gives more power. And heavy can take less time.
47:51
So it's an interesting conundrum for somebody who doesn't like to exercise.
47:55
When you really find that you're going heavy and you're doing more powerful
48:00
work, you don't have to do as many repetitions.
48:04
And you get many more benefits. And the idea is spend that little bit of time
48:09
in the gym and now take that and go outside and play. Do the things you love.
48:15
Yeah, that time to do the things you love. Well, that boost of energy and those exercise benefits.
48:21
I was curious, a couple of things. You kind of touched on the bone density.
48:24
You had said earlier that two times a week of resistance training was enough
48:31
for muscle and bone density.
48:34
Was that correct? That if you do more, it's not really affecting those results directly?
48:40
Yeah, great question. So between two and three times a week,
48:45
there is not significant statistical difference in the benefit.
48:51
That's really where the research is.
48:54
Will you get a little bit more if you're doing three times a week versus four
49:00
in terms of, say, bone density?
49:02
Maybe. But it's similar to the difference between, say, walking 7,000 steps a day versus 10,000.
49:12
10K a day was a.
49:17
There's no science behind it. 7,000 steps a day is where the threshold kind
49:24
of levels off. You get the most or the majority of all the benefits there.
49:28
And you get more, but they come a lot slower.
49:33
And so I like to tell people, work your steps up to 7,000.
49:37
But beyond that, if you're not lifting, let's take this energy and put it toward lifting.
49:43
Because now you have a better overall program for muscle and for bone density,
49:48
as well as you're doing things differently for joints, and that's all good and beneficial.
49:54
Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. And then one last question was,
49:59
what is the connection with everything we've been talking about today as far
50:03
as exercise and oxygen and all of these different things with menopause?
50:08
Is it those same benefits that you talked about, but they're going to help within
50:12
menopause? Or what is the connection and the correlation there?
50:16
Yeah, the big question, I think, for women in menopause or the persuasive argument
50:23
is you need every one of those things when you're in your 20s and you need them in your 30s.
50:28
And then when you hit perimenopause, for most of us is some state in our 40s to 50s and over.
50:37
Because we lose estrogen, we need those things amplified to mitigate the changes
50:43
that otherwise will happen.
50:45
So we can dramatically lose muscle, we can dramatically lose bone,
50:50
especially during the transition from early to late stage of perimenopause,
50:57
and then the latest stage in.
50:59
Perimenopause to the early stage in postmenopause.
51:04
And we don't always know exactly where that late stage perimenopause is.
51:08
But if you're starting to miss periods and you're starting to look at,
51:12
oh, I missed that and that and that.
51:13
Okay, you know, I'm getting four months and five months. You know you're getting close.
51:18
And sometimes a woman will miss several months and then start all over again
51:21
and say, okay, still on this roller coaster.
51:24
But you know that endpoint, your biggest risk for loss of muscle and bone is
51:30
right then because of the estrogen has kind of been on a roller coaster,
51:35
but coming down or trending down.
51:37
Now it is really ready to take a nosedive.
51:41
And so you're in this place where you have to say, it's like you're on a three-legged
51:46
stool. One of those is coming out.
51:49
Your resistance training has to be really spot on. And your.
51:55
Increasing protein needs to be there as well.
51:59
You're struggling with sleep and potentially with stress because of the hormonal changes.
52:06
So we need to do what we can exercise-wise to help you sleep better.
52:11
And that goes both ways. The sleep will decrease your coordination,
52:15
your motivation to want to exercise.
52:18
So we want to look at which comes first. So back to you when you said,
52:23
you know, I wasn't sleeping well, and I found I gave myself the hall pass not
52:28
to exercise and found I got better results.
52:31
I think every woman needs to hear that place in the podcast and play it again,
52:37
because that is so very important.
52:39
If you're doing all the exercise, even if you're really monitoring your diet,
52:44
if you're not sleeping, they won't work, and they may make it worse.
52:52
Yeah, I mean, I know there's a lot of different reasons for exercise and I've
52:56
been looking a lot at longevity, bone density and stuff like that in my life.
53:01
And I mean, I think everyone has their different motivations for it,
53:05
but I watched somebody in my life, my dad in the spring, he was quite sick and
53:09
he just, at the end of his life, he kind of shriveled away to nothing and looking at that and being,
53:14
you know, a part of it is fear, I guess, but also just that understanding of
53:19
we've been sold this lie for so long of.
53:22
Be smaller, weigh less, take up less space.
53:26
And it's so toxic and to see it coming out again is so devastating as I'm raising a daughter.
53:32
But then also, I mean, just the way that I have always been built naturally,
53:36
I'm almost six feet tall. And I, you know, I find that when I exercise,
53:41
I do naturally seem to build muscle quite quickly.
53:45
And it's sad to see the way our society is moving for women and how detrimental that is to our health.
53:55
And then looking at, I mean, the people I've talked to about perimenopause and
53:59
menopause and how challenging that is for them.
54:02
And then now they've been told this, this lie all these years of,
54:07
you know, resistance training or sorry, not resistance training, but cardio and eat less.
54:11
And, you know, even people in my life, I won't say who, but who have told me,
54:15
you know, I'm fine at 1200 calories a day. I don't need any more.
54:19
Right. I know. And you're going wide eyed and I was too, you know,
54:23
and it can be so difficult when we've had that toxic messaging for so long.
54:30
And I, so, I mean, I'm looking at you and I'm like, your shoulders,
54:34
your arms, I'm like, whoa, she's so strong.
54:37
You know, she's, she's walking the walk. Right. And I think it's so important
54:40
for people to hear about how this can help, especially loss of muscle,
54:45
loss of bone to be able to prepare before that. And then during that time as well.
54:51
Yeah. And I love it. And thank you for the compliment, But I also, if you're watching...
54:58
Are we video live? Not at this point, but we can tell them.
55:02
Okay. I think it's self-check for everybody.
55:07
When you see another woman, you know, I think just I would be aware.
55:12
What are your thoughts immediately? Because a lot of times someone will see
55:17
me or say something and say, you look so masculine.
55:21
And I think, again, it's your conditioning. It's our conditioning to not value strength.
55:29
And, you know, we do value skinny.
55:32
And like you said, it's like going overboard again with celebrities.
55:37
And it's so challenging to have to deal with that. But I think the bigger problem
55:43
right now is we're also right now comparing ourselves to women who are not even real. They're AI.
55:52
Yeah. Yeah. A tough world. Yeah.
55:56
So I think, and that's not to go anywhere with that, but I think if you can
56:02
catch yourself and the thoughts you have and just get curious about, why do I think that?
56:09
That I think is just a great starting point for any one of us.
56:13
And it's something that I often say here on the podcast too,
56:16
when, when I am struggling, I encourage people listening when they're struggling
56:20
with, you know, am I, am I pretty enough?
56:22
Am I, you know, fit enough? Am I whatever enough? I ask them for who,
56:27
who are you trying to do that for?
56:29
Who are you trying to be? Whatever it is, smart enough, accomplished enough, pretty enough.
56:34
Who, who is that for? And I find that whenever I do that for myself,
56:37
it stops me in my tracks and I say, I don't, I don't want to shrink myself.
56:41
I don't want to become some smaller number, smaller size for this elusive person.
56:50
Approval of the world. Right. And so I look at that and I think that can help
56:54
to just step back and understand.
56:56
And I'm so sorry that people have said that to you. I think that's awful and so such a misjudgment.
57:03
And I think that could be a whole nother conversation that we have.
57:06
So before we go, where can we go to find out more about you and about the work
57:14
you're doing and the programs that you offer.
57:16
Yeah, thank you so much. Flipping50.com. So easy. And I'm at.
57:25
Flipping50TV, Flipping50TV on social at Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
57:30
And those are probably the best places to catch up with me. If you really want
57:34
to get directly to me, I answer all the DMs in Instagram. So happy to answer anything.
57:41
Wonderful. Okay, well, thank you so much. There was so much to cover here.
57:45
I'm excited to listen to it after and write down even more. I have a full page
57:50
of notes, but write down even more. So thank you so much for sharing your expertise in this area.
57:55
Thank you so much for having me.