Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / How Melanie Dropped From 24% to 16% Body Fat (and Still Got Stronger) | Ep 295

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How Melanie Dropped From 24% to 16% Body Fat (and Still Got Stronger) | Ep 295 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you've been consistently lifting weights and monitoring your diet, but you're still not seeing the body composition changes that you want and you're starting to question is it even possible to lose fat while maintaining or building muscle?
• 0:12
  Philip Pape: This episode is for you.
• 0:14
  Philip Pape: Today, I'm talking with Melanie, who transformed her physique by shifting focus from aesthetics to performance and getting stronger, dropping from over 24% to just 16% body fat, while actually gaining over 3 pounds of muscle and seeing her lifts go up.
• 0:30
  Philip Pape: You'll discover what helped her achieve these results and the two most important factors of success in aligning your training, nutrition and mindset to achieve any physique goal.
• 0:41
  Philip Pape: Achieve any physique goal.
• 0:48
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:55
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, Philip Pape, and today I've invited on one of my amazing clients, Melanie, to talk about her results and how she got there Now.
• 1:03
  Philip Pape: Melanie came to me initially with aesthetic goals.
• 1:06
  Philip Pape: She had quite a bit of experience in the past with different programs and even some success, and she wanted some guidance and accountability.
• 1:14
  Philip Pape: Together, we started shifting her focus from not only aesthetics but also strength and performance, and she dropped around eight and a half percent body fat.
• 1:22
  Philip Pape: She'd simultaneously built three pounds of muscle at a fairly, I'll say light body weight, and we'll get into some of the numbers and she developed a sustainable approach that keeps delivering results, and more to come.
• 1:34
  Philip Pape: So today you're going to learn how she did this, how you can apply these lessons to your own journey, some of the challenges along the way.
• 1:39
  Philip Pape: Melanie, I thank you so much for joining me today, Hello.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: So let's start with some background, because I think that's where people want to understand, like, what were you doing before and then what happened throughout this process?
• 1:51
  Philip Pape: Just to share a little bit about yourself what led you to seek out coaching, Because I know you've worked with a coach before, somebody who I know quite well.
• 1:59
  Philip Pape: Feel free to share as much as you want about that.
• 2:02
  Melanie: Okay, after the birth of my second kid in 2014, I kind of realized my body wasn't springing back as it used to.
• 2:10
  Melanie: So I sought out some nutritional guidance from Paul Salter, who you just mentioned, and I worked for him for gosh, almost eight years.
• 2:22
  Melanie: He took me through a bunch of deficits and a bunch of maintenance cycles and everything, and then about two years ago I had kind of stopped with him because I had a family medical issue that I had to attend to overseas and when that happened, basically all nutrition and all fitness went out the window because it was for an extended period of time.
• 2:45
  Melanie: When I got back stateside I was really struggling with being consistent with anything, not because I didn't know how to, but I think personally, for me, accountability is kind of what at least gets me started, and then I can you know, once I've kind of seen the results, I can maintain it for the most part, and I think that's where I was struggling.
• 3:07
  Melanie: Paul had recommended you, and so that's how we connected.
• 3:13
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Philip Pape: So for folks who follow the show for a while, paul's actually been on twice.
• 3:16
  Philip Pape: I was on his show and he he definitely has his careers evolved.
• 3:19
  Philip Pape: He went into hypnotherapy and I think he works with golf experts and professionals now Unless you're a golfer, but good guy.
• 3:28
  Philip Pape: And what's really cool is that you know I know there's different coaches at different levels and you already had coming in, I can tell like a deep knowledge of you, know the basics for sure, like macros and how that works, but even some more advanced techniques, as well as a pretty high level of awareness on some things like your connection with food, your own body and how it responds.
• 3:49
  Philip Pape: And yet there's still more to learn.
• 3:52
  Philip Pape: Right, there's always more to learn.
• 3:54
  Melanie: Yes.
• 3:54
  Philip Pape: And so when you say accountability gets you started and then you're able to maintain, I guess people want to know does that mean I need to work with a coach for eight years or for 20 years or for all my life?
• 4:05
  Philip Pape: What's the value of this Like?
• 4:07
  Philip Pape: What's going on there?
• 4:08
  Philip Pape: They want to know.
• 4:09
  Melanie: So the reason I worked with Paul for so long was because he was amazing.
• 4:12
  Melanie: Number one, number two, I kind of wanted to push my body as far as it could go because I had a lot of time, back then at least, and so if I wanted to do a maintenance cycle and then I wanted to do a deficit and I didn't want to do the deficit on my own, because it's one of those things where I just want to outsource it to someone else I didn't want to have to have the mental, do the mental work of thinking what should my macros be?
• 4:37
  Melanie: How long should I do this for?
• 4:39
  Melanie: Because I had the privilege and luxury of working with a professional and being able to afford one.
• 4:45
  Melanie: So that's kind of why we did it that way, and I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes being in a deficit.
• 4:52
  Melanie: It's something about just knowing that.
• 4:54
  Melanie: That's what it is and I don't have to tweak anything.
• 4:57
  Melanie: Somebody is telling me exactly what to do.
• 4:59
  Melanie: My brain is now freed up to have to make decisions about other things.
• 5:03
  Melanie: So I think that's where working with a coach for me comes into play.
• 5:08
  Melanie: Even when I was working with you right, it was I just trusted you a hundred percent, whatever you said to do, except maybe give up that one chocolate a day.
• 5:16
  Melanie: I was like, okay, fine, Because at the end of the day everything is almost reversible, right, like if it didn't work out we could tweak it to see how my body would respond to something.
• 5:27
  Melanie: It's it's.
• 5:28
  Melanie: It was a learning process for the both of us, cause it was the first time you were working with me to see how my body would respond to what we had kind of programmed, if you will.
• 5:39
  Philip Pape: You said so much good stuff in there.
• 5:40
  Philip Pape: Seriously, and I know it's just like natural to you no big deal, but like for sure, having a professional to create a plan is helpful, because sometimes we say, well, just just listen to Phil's podcast and you'll learn all about.
• 5:54
  Philip Pape: Uh, you know the macros and what rate of fat loss to go at it, whatever.
• 5:55
  Philip Pape: But even that can be overwhelming because you're like for me, I have very specific goals and as specific body weight and specific whatever training plan, what do I do?
• 6:03
  Philip Pape: And so it isn't just information, it's information crafted and structured and tailored to you, the liking being a deficit.
• 6:09
  Philip Pape: Well, let's get back to that one.
• 6:10
  Philip Pape: Let's pin that one for a second, cause that'll be interesting, and I know I like working with you, melody, cause you've got you've got some cool no-transcript.
• 6:34
  Philip Pape: It's to seek someone who is going to work with you, to learn with you, to be humble, hopefully somewhat humble where they need to be, and then maybe more assertive where they're not they don't need to be, and then maybe more assertive where they're not they don't need to be.
• 6:44
  Philip Pape: And things like you know how you were able to build muscle even at a fairly lean body weight.
• 6:50
  Philip Pape: You know leanness, body composition as well as lean weight and still able to build muscle, but because the numbers don't move as much magnitude wise for you, like compared to a 300 pound dude.
• 7:01
  Philip Pape: You know it's like how do we tease out what exactly is happening?
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: And then also the fact that you want your Ferrero Rocher.
• 7:07
  Philip Pape: Let's just admit like I was like okay, I'm not going to push that one, don't worry.
• 7:10
  Philip Pape: Flexible diet, that's what we're here for.
• 7:12
  Philip Pape: So yeah, I just want to rephrase everything I just heard you say, which I think is valuable as far as liking being a deficit.
• 7:26
  Melanie: Tell us more about that.
• 7:26
  Melanie: I think that's mostly a control thing.
• 7:27
  Melanie: Right, it's like it's.
• 7:27
  Melanie: It's knowing that I can push my body to somewhat of an extreme obviously we're not doing bodybuilder type deficits or whatever right, but for me that's somewhat of an extreme compared to my maintenance and knowing that I can do it.
• 7:41
  Melanie: So there's some sort of control that goes in there that I enjoy, that I can do it.
• 7:44
  Melanie: So there's some sort of control that goes in there that I enjoy.
• 7:50
  Melanie: When you're in maintenance there's a little bit more leeway of kind of going off your macros a little bit, right, like if your macro was, I don't know, like 70 grams of carbs or whatever, if you're in maintenance, it's not that big of a deal if you even for a week, go over it.
• 8:01
  Melanie: Right, because you're in maintenance and it's life and you're supposed to be able to enjoy life when you're in a deficit.
• 8:08
  Melanie: Theoretically you shouldn't be in a deficit for a prolonged period of time.
• 8:11
  Melanie: So there is more of a hey if you want to really maximize your results in this short period of time and short because it's completely relative to each person you will get the results you get based on how well you adhere to your prescribed program, if that makes sense.
• 8:33
  Melanie: So there is a, and I kind of enjoy just knowing hey, for me it's kind of this control thing.
• 8:39
  Melanie: And then the aesthetics part of it.
• 8:41
  Melanie: You do see the weight shed and you do see your body recomp happening, and that kind of just motivates you to kind of keep on track as well.
• 8:51
  Melanie: So there's, you know, there's two aspects to it, for me at least.
• 8:54
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and speaking of the physique, you know your body was fairly sensitive, I think, to like glycogen and carb swings right, where, like you know, you can sometimes get some bloating and fluid retention, sometimes not, and I think you even started to get used to when and why that would happen.
• 9:08
  Philip Pape: As far as the control, I totally understand that.
• 9:12
  Philip Pape: I think people need to understand I've said this before fat loss is not a joy ride.
• 9:17
  Philip Pape: It's not fun in the sun.
• 9:18
  Philip Pape: It is a goal, it's a change, it's a little bit of discomfort and you're forcing your body to release energy and the question is how fast and hard and long do you do that for?
• 9:29
  Philip Pape: And that's the sustainability piece.
• 9:30
  Philip Pape: It's not like when people say, well, you can do it without hunger and you can do it without whatever.
• 9:34
  Philip Pape: No, you're going to have some hunger, right, and you have to control something.
• 9:38
  Philip Pape: So when you said control, I thought of okay, the structure that we put in place here is not just the rate, but also the fact that you have certain amounts that you can eat, like there literally is a physical amount of stuff you need to eat and the more volume type foods you can have, the more like physical volume you can eat, but still the calories are limited.
• 9:58
  Philip Pape: And you said something in one of your check-ins.
• 10:00
  Philip Pape: I have a whole bunch of quotes from you here, so I'll see if I drop them in One you said I can still have fun and eat with other people and be mindful about portion sizes.
• 10:08
  Philip Pape: Super simple, but literally that is the thing that you're restricting.
• 10:12
  Philip Pape: You're not restricting what you eat and having fun, right?
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: Tell us about some of the experiments we tried.
• 10:18
  Philip Pape: I know you didn't necessarily do everything I suggested.
• 10:21
  Philip Pape: I don't mean it like that.
• 10:23
  Philip Pape: I mean it like sometimes I said, hey, this is something we could try if you want.
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: Like I would give you the option, such as you know what we would like go higher protein when the calories were getting lean.
• 10:32
  Philip Pape: Or I know, more recently we talked about sprinting.
• 10:35
  Philip Pape: But is there any particular experiment that comes to mind that you wanted to bring up?
• 10:39
  Melanie: So I think there's two things, everything that you mentioned.
• 10:42
  Melanie: There's two things that I clicked with that I thought worked for me.
• 10:46
  Melanie: There were other things, obviously, but those were the ones that resonated for me, maybe three actually adding fiber to my diet I forgot to mention that when we actually started working together, I was coming off, basically, like I mentioned, off that medical issue with my family.
• 11:01
  Melanie: I was not eating at that point in time and it was a struggle for me to even get calories in, and so then you kind of had me just get to maintenance before we even went into a deficit obviously, and that was a struggle at the very beginning.
• 11:17
  Melanie: Then obviously your body gets used to it and blah, blah, blah.
• 11:19
  Melanie: But cut to me, being 47 now I think, and as you get older, I think, fiber becomes much, much more important, and that was something that was just not on my radar and so you asked me to introduce fiber.
• 11:35
  Melanie: That was super helpful just in terms of bloating to some degree, that I noticed.
• 11:41
  Melanie: One of the other things that we also strategized with was increasing protein, and when we started doing that, I noticed just a very perceptible drop increase in leanness.
• 11:55
  Melanie: It was a visual, um, visual increase in leanness.
• 11:59
  Melanie: For me, when we added protein.
• 12:00
  Melanie: And then the other thing that actually kick-started it was when we added protein.
• 12:03
  Melanie: And then the other thing that actually kickstarted it was when we introduced sprinting.
• 12:08
  Melanie: Yeah, and that was towards the tail end, and one of the reasons we did that is because we didn't really want to take away calories, because I was already in such a very low I was already at low numbers and I probably would have become super cranky if we had taken it even lower.
• 12:23
  Melanie: So we looked at other ways of managing the balance of energy expenditure and intake and one of those things was well, let's increase the energy expenditure and we just did sprinting, and that I mean after a week or so of it.
• 12:37
  Melanie: It feels good.
• 12:39
  Melanie: Obviously, the endorphins are firing and you feel like a youth again.
• 12:41
  Melanie: You're like I can sprint, I can do this, but it also does kickstart that leanness again.
• 12:48
  Melanie: So those were three of the strategies that you had mentioned that really clicked for me and I'm still doing the fiber thing, obviously, and I'm still doing the protein thing.
• 12:53
  Melanie: I'm not doing the sprinting as often anymore, maybe like once a week, just for fun at this point, just because it's like a fun thing to do now.
• 13:02
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, I'm sprinting more as well.
• 13:04
  Philip Pape: I'm right with you and I'm telling more and more people about it.
• 13:07
  Philip Pape: There's going to be an episode coming up about sprinting which actually might have preceded this one by the time this comes out.
• 13:12
  Philip Pape: So, yeah, I mean for fat loss, I almost wish we had done it even earlier, just to see what would happen.
• 13:17
  Philip Pape: And this is again the part about like not every coach knows everything and we're always learning and your coach should be learning.
• 13:23
  Philip Pape: But the protein is an interesting one because, again, because you're fairly lean, operating on low calories, low body weight, those small changes in macros can make a big difference and we don't always know why.
• 13:33
  Philip Pape: I can go through the science of the million things that protein does and still we don't always know 100% why.
• 13:39
  Philip Pape: For you, for Melanie, it causes a little bit of leanness.
• 13:42
  Philip Pape: It could be that you were just carrying a little bit less fluid from glycogen, or it could have been that you literally were burning a little more calories because of the thermic effect of food.
• 13:51
  Philip Pape: You never know.
• 13:52
  Philip Pape: The fiber let me tell you, melanie, lately, these carnivore episodes I put out the amount of trolls you get on YouTube about how amazing carnivore is and you don't need fiber to survive and all I want to say is like there's a lot of things you don't need to survive, but let me tell you how beneficial these are and I fear for their gut, like years down the line, by not having any fiber at all.
• 14:13
  Melanie: Well, I mean, on that note, you know, being the age I am, I had to get my colonoscopy this year.
• 14:18
  Melanie: I think we had yeah, it was while I was working with you.
• 14:32
  Melanie: Obviously, and the thing that the Klonos the guy that does it stresses, he's like he just said, the majority of Americans do not get nearly as much fiber as they should.
• 14:36
  Melanie: So you can either supplement I mean he was mentioning the standard fiber in the orange canister that you get at the grocery stores or whatever but you know, to each their own, like you had mentioned, you have.
• 14:45
  Melanie: You actually have a list in all the documentation that you give us.
• 14:49
  Melanie: You know a wealth of information.
• 14:50
  Melanie: You have a list of fiber rich foods.
• 14:53
  Melanie: You don't have to take a supplement.
• 14:55
  Melanie: You can if you want to, but you can also get it from fruits and veggies and all that stuff is just playing around and seeing how it works for you.
• 15:02
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, and people make excuses with that stuff and I'm like an apple has like five grams of fiber.
• 15:06
  Philip Pape: So if you need 10 grams of fiber, two apples like we'll get you.
• 15:09
  Philip Pape: It's not a big deal, it's just so people are.
• 15:11
  Philip Pape: People are such a dearth of fruit and nutritious foods and that it's a game changer.
• 15:16
  Philip Pape: So all right, so really cool.
• 15:18
  Philip Pape: We're kind of getting into the weeds, but they're good weeds to get into.
• 15:21
  Philip Pape: I do want to know that.
• 15:22
  Philip Pape: I do want to help people understand.
• 15:24
  Philip Pape: When you came to me with the, I'll say, aesthetics goal, which we all have, that and, frankly, the vast majority of people I work with that's one of their goals.
• 15:31
  Philip Pape: Right, it's not the only goal necessarily, but you also did shift toward this focus on strength and performance and had some strength progress, even in fat loss.
• 15:41
  Philip Pape: That, if I'm recalling our data right.
• 15:43
  Philip Pape: Yeah, tell us about that.
• 15:45
  Philip Pape: Like the mindset shift and then also the process.
• 15:47
  Melanie: So initially, like you mentioned, I came with a set of goals, just because I was probably half a size bigger than I usually am, so my clothes were getting snug and it was just affecting my mental state of you know, I feel like I'm doing everything right, but it's not.
• 16:04
  Melanie: You know, it's not working.
• 16:06
  Melanie: So I should probably reach out to an expert slash professional again to kind of just get on the right track.
• 16:11
  Melanie: And then kind of, when we got into it just because for me, as you mentioned, it wasn't necessarily that I had a weight goal right, it was more what I looked like that I wanted to achieve, because it was a slower process for me, uh that I would imagine a lot of people uh, we kind of shifted to.
• 16:31
  Melanie: Well, let's, let's look at some other goals.
• 16:34
  Melanie: Let's see if we can reach a number on our deadlift or on our squat or whatever.
• 16:39
  Melanie: And the magic of it is, as you get stronger, you build more muscle, which builds more fat, which helps you achieve your aesthetic goal anyway.
• 16:45
  Melanie: But it's just shifting your mind to it's a more achievable goal in a shorter amount of time than maybe the aesthetic goal that you're looking for.
• 16:56
  Melanie: So it's these small wins along the way that keep you motivated and keep you in the game, because you're just achieving these small wins and not you can't always focus on the big prize right at the beginning.
• 17:07
  Melanie: You kind of have to achieve these small goals to get to that big prize.
• 17:10
  Melanie: And it was just a way of reframing hey, what can we do and what can we achieve in the next two weeks, Kind of a thing.
• 17:19
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'll put it this way Even if it weren't getting you a meaningful change in that short period, the fact that you had something to focus on that was moving forward, like.
• 17:27
  Philip Pape: Like that's what people need to find for themselves, whether that's their step count or their protein or their lifts.
• 17:32
  Philip Pape: The nice thing about training is you could always make progress.
• 17:35
  Philip Pape: It doesn't mean the weight on the bar is always going up for a lift, for the max rep, but something should always be moving and then that's a great sign.
• 17:43
  Philip Pape: Now in fat loss, honestly, Melanie, I know we've gone back and forth on the numbers, but people don't often build muscle at all during fat loss and it's hard to say how much of your lean mass was muscle.
• 17:53
  Philip Pape: But out of the roughly you drop 8.5% of body fat and of the pounds that you dropped, you gained about a third of that value as muscle, which is pretty nice ratio.
• 18:06
  Philip Pape: So in other words, it's a one to four ratio of muscle to fat, but in a fat loss phase, which usually you're trying to count the ratio when you're gaining.
• 18:12
  Philip Pape: Anyway, where I'm going with this is like, how did this performance focused approach feel for you as it went forward Like how are you going to carry that forward into the future?
• 18:22
  Philip Pape: Has it changed your approach at all, or what are your thoughts around that?
• 18:26
  Melanie: No, I mean, I'm still continuing.
• 18:28
  Melanie: I still have a goal of certain numbers to reach on some of the big lifts, and so you know every mess of cycle because I follow a program that's broken down into mess of cycles I'm kind of increasing my one rep max because I am still getting stronger, and even more so now that I'm in a maintenance phase, right, so my body has the energy to kind of push through it even more.
• 18:49
  Melanie: So that's always going to be a goal.
• 18:51
  Melanie: It's like how many pull-ups can I do?
• 18:53
  Melanie: How many, you know, because you always still want to be fit, I'm still young, and so it's one of those things where I'm happy, where I am aesthetically.
• 19:04
  Melanie: So now I've got another, not necessarily a goal, but I just want to keep on moving the needle, at whatever rate that means for me.
• 19:13
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and I'm going to put you on the spot.
• 19:14
  Philip Pape: Like are you open to building and gaining, to build muscle.
• 19:18
  Melanie: So that one is tricky.
• 19:19
  Melanie: Just because I I feel like when I am actually, when I am actually um over my maintenance weight, if you will, because I am building, I feel more sluggish.
• 19:31
  Melanie: Personally I feel more sluggish, which means then when I'm not as quick on the weights I can't pull my body weight up doing pull-ups.
• 19:40
  Melanie: But I haven't actually worked with a coach in a building phase.
• 19:44
  Melanie: So who knows what that would look like?
• 19:46
  Melanie: And I know, in order to show that muscle at least from what I've read and you can correct me if I'm wrong you kind of have to build.
• 19:52
  Melanie: You have to build muscle in order to kind of shape it right.
• 19:55
  Melanie: So Paul was very unsuccessful whenever he broached that subject up with me.
• 20:00
  Melanie: You might have better luck down the road, but right now I kind of like where I am.
• 20:06
  Philip Pape: And look, there's no right or wrong answer.
• 20:08
  Philip Pape: Honestly, people would love to be able to lose fat and get to some level where they're just, you know, cool, they're cool with it, they're happy and you can still get a lot of progress.
• 20:17
  Philip Pape: The fact that you built muscle while losing means you have some early, like novice type response still in you to be able to keep gaining muscle at definitely a maintenance and there's always like different trade-offs, like you could always go to a very lean gain.
• 20:33
  Philip Pape: If you're not the type that's like I, have to put on all this muscle and then cut it off.
• 20:36
  Philip Pape: You know cause a lot of us are and a lot of my clients get into the habit of cycling every year more aggressively.
• 20:42
  Philip Pape: But if you're like not comfortable adding 10 more pounds of scale weight because of that's a whole mental thing there's nothing wrong with being at like a little above maintenance and just drifting kind of up, since your body is very responsive, until you hit a wall.
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: Then, when you hit the wall, then you say, okay, now maybe I have to ascertain like one more cut and then a really aggressive bulk for a while and then back to a cut.
• 21:03
  Philip Pape: You know those kinds of long term strategies.
• 21:06
  Melanie: So do you take clients immediately from a deficit to a build, or do you prefer to have them stay in maintenance for a bit?
• 21:14
  Philip Pape: It depends on their goals.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: Like it depends on their goals, I give gentle nudge to go into a bulk, because if you're working with me and paying for me, I'm not going to say it's easy to be at maintenance, but like we've done that, now I want to show you the whole different side of it, all these new challenges that people just don't know, like people watching this and listening.
• 21:32
  Philip Pape: I know you want to lose weight.
• 21:33
  Philip Pape: I know you want to lose fat, but there's something magical about building as well.
• 21:36
  Philip Pape: That's its own thing, but that's in the future.
• 21:39
  Philip Pape: It's all part of your plan, melanie, of like this never ends, the process never ends.
• 21:43
  Philip Pape: You can do it however you want.
• 21:44
  Philip Pape: You know, yeah, it's life.
• 21:47
  Melanie: Well, yeah, and it really shouldn't, right?
• 21:49
  Melanie: I mean, because your body is constantly changing, so what works for me, or what I think works for me this year, may not work for me next year.
• 21:56
  Melanie: You know, and so you do.
• 21:59
  Melanie: You can't just you can't always stick with the same plan because it worked for you in the past, because your body has now changed.
• 22:05
  Melanie: You've gotten, you know for me.
• 22:07
  Melanie: I've gotten older, older, my hormones have changed.
• 22:10
  Melanie: My body now might be sensitive to something that I used to eat or whatever, and so I can't, you know things like that.
• 22:17
  Philip Pape: A hundred percent.
• 22:17
  Philip Pape: That's a really important point, especially we're both in our forties and I will say even in a two-year period.
• 22:23
  Philip Pape: Because of how your body changes, deliberately and unintentionally, as well as life situation changes, you'll find that the system and the process of experimenting on yourself and getting data you want to keep doing that because, again, the next phase isn't going to operate like the last.
• 22:40
  Philip Pape: So you need to early on understand what's happening so that you could interject and it might be better, it might be worse, it's just different.
• 22:46
  Philip Pape: You know it doesn't matter.
• 22:47
  Philip Pape: Like I wonder about the mindset stuff too, because again, I know you worked with Paul.
• 22:52
  Philip Pape: Paul is a huge, like behavioral change guy.
• 22:54
  Philip Pape: He's very much in a mindset motion.
• 22:55
  Philip Pape: Is there any anything different now than when we started that you found about this process from a mental perspective, like as you were checking in, as you were thinking about that new year's party and whether or not your physique was changing and so on.
• 23:09
  Melanie: It's one of those things.
• 23:10
  Melanie: Just because I had worked with someone for so long, my mind was in the right place.
• 23:15
  Melanie: That doesn't mean it wasn't hard at times, and you are well aware of that.
• 23:22
  Melanie: When we had our check-ins right, like you mentioned, I would always write I'm frustrated that either the scale weight's not moving or I'm frustrated that I'm not losing as inches as fast as I would like.
• 23:34
  Melanie: But I am trusting the process because, at the end of the day, every single time that I was in a deficit in the past, as long as I trusted the process, I would get there.
• 23:45
  Melanie: It just doesn't happen as fast as anybody likes.
• 23:47
  Melanie: Right, you wanna like immediately.
• 23:48
  Melanie: It's kind of like you see those memes online, right?
• 23:52
  Melanie: Somebody just I worked out today and then they're looking at their abs in the mirror and it's what they look like.
• 23:57
  Melanie: You don't get the results you want immediately, so it's just staying the course, and I think maybe part of what happens for people is you get frustrated and you just kind of give up, not saying that that hasn't happened to me before, and then you just kind of either, you know, not work out for a week or just go overboard on the eating for a week, and that's also fine, as long as you kind of come back to the process.
• 24:23
  Melanie: Ideally, you know it's just the sooner you come back to the process, the less of that little blip occurs.
• 24:30
  Melanie: Because as long as you trust the process and you stick with it, you're going to get the results.
• 24:36
  Melanie: It's just inevitable.
• 24:37
  Melanie: It's how well you adhere to the process.
• 24:40
  Melanie: But you can have F-ups along the way, right?
• 24:44
  Melanie: I mean, we're all human, nobody's a robot.
• 24:46
  Melanie: So it's just as long as you're consistently coming back to where you need to be or where you want to be, that's the key.
• 24:55
  Philip Pape: It's a great way to put it.
• 24:56
  Philip Pape: I mean, I think of like a rubber band getting stretched where it always comes back to where it needs to be.
• 25:00
  Philip Pape: Or I think Gary V posted an image on Instagram the other day that had five glasses of water and it said this is what people think consistency is, and it's like every glass is full.
• 25:10
  Philip Pape: And then here's what it really is.
• 25:11
  Philip Pape: It's like full, almost empty, halfway almost empty, and it's like but there's always a little water in there and like that's the thing is.
• 25:18
  Philip Pape: Like you've always got a little water in your glass and you kind of you come back to that and some days are full and some days are not.
• 25:22
  Philip Pape: And yeah, your check-in comments were along those lines, which I think is healthy.
• 25:27
  Philip Pape: I think people need to understand that.
• 25:28
  Philip Pape: Like you said, I'm following the process, but, man, I do not like feeling this flubby right now.
• 25:33
  Philip Pape: Like that's one of your I hope you don't mind me sharing this but like I think they're good because I would see those and as a coach at initially, I'm like, oh, I, you know, I take it personally when a client feels discouraged in any sense, but also, at the same time, it's human.
• 25:46
  Philip Pape: So when you say these things.
• 25:48
  Philip Pape: It's just an acknowledgement of reality.
• 25:51
  Philip Pape: You had another one about a New Year's party.
• 25:52
  Philip Pape: You said I intentionally ate what was there.
• 25:55
  Philip Pape: I also knew I wasn't really going overboard and my body would adjust back in a few days, as it did shrug emoji.
• 26:00
  Philip Pape: So again you were like confident, the process would work.
• 26:04
  Philip Pape: Now, not everyone's that confident and I suspect newer folks and this is where I'm going to ask for your advice for somebody listening, somebody who is like a month into the process or two months in.
• 26:15
  Philip Pape: They don't have the long history you do.
• 26:16
  Philip Pape: I've seen this as well where a small fraction of clients I lose them because they're impatient and they're like I'm just frustrated, nothing's happening, I'm going to quit, and it's like I tried to reel them back.
• 26:28
  Philip Pape: Not everybody can be saved in that sense, let's just put it that way.
• 26:31
  Philip Pape: What would you say to somebody in advance so that when they have those doubts, what can they do?
• 26:37
  Melanie: I mean it's normal, right.
• 26:38
  Melanie: It's very frustrating.
• 26:40
  Melanie: It's hard to just keep on saying trust the process when you can't give them a definite date, slash time as to when the process for them is going to be achieved.
• 26:49
  Melanie: It's just, hey, I mean it's scientifically, it's just going to happen.
• 26:59
  Melanie: There's just no way that it's not.
• 27:00
  Melanie: The only variable right now is the amount of time it's going to take you to get there.
• 27:03
  Melanie: And then also, alluding to that, is the very beginning of this whole journey for me, the nutrition aspect of it, when I would kind of fall off of my prescribed plan, if you will, it was.
• 27:16
  Melanie: I read this once.
• 27:17
  Melanie: It's like, you know, you get a hole in one tire, I would puncture all four tires.
• 27:21
  Melanie: I'd be like, well, I went off plan, so I'm just going to go balls to the wall and I'm just going to eat everything in sight.
• 27:26
  Melanie: And that took me a couple of years to go.
• 27:30
  Melanie: Hey, we don't need to do that, right?
• 27:32
  Melanie: Okay, you ate a cookie, you ate two, three cookies.
• 27:34
  Melanie: Who cares?
• 27:35
  Melanie: That was one meal.
• 27:36
  Melanie: Every meal is your starting point and every meal can be a starting point, not to say that you can't also go balls to the wall for one day, two days, three days, like I said, as long as you get back to it and you're consistent, like you said, some days you're going to be 100%, some days you're going to be 50%, 40%, the average, it's law of averages, it's all going to work out eventually.
• 27:57
  Melanie: The only delta is going to be the time taken to get there.
• 28:01
  Philip Pape: Yeah, very well said.
• 28:02
  Philip Pape: I'm not going to add to that because that was good.
• 28:03
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, people listen.
• 28:07
  Philip Pape: Listen to that.
• 28:07
  Philip Pape: That is exactly what it is what did come to mind there, though there's something else, a side tangent that I was thinking of having to do with.
• 28:13
  Philip Pape: Oh, I guess you know, when you mentioned being in a deficit and stuff like that, I'm such a rational, logical person often, and you know so I will use logical, I will use logic to try to convince people sometimes.
• 28:28
  Philip Pape: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the logical side of that is, if you over consume by you know, a thousand calories one day, but you're under by a thousand the rest of the week, you're at maintenance, right?
• 28:39
  Melanie: Exactly, but that's.
• 28:41
  Melanie: I think that that can be hard for some people who are already in a deficit, because they're already like just going to keep at those calories and now it's that mental game of, well, you're going to take away more even though I may have gone over, but it's that like, well, that was the baseline for me, and now it's less, even if it's for four days, so I can see where that would be a struggle for people.
• 29:00
  Melanie: I think that would be a struggle for me.
• 29:01
  Melanie: You literally I mean you mentioned just very briefly, but one of the things that I held steadfast my entire deficit journey with you was my one for error share, and you even suggested at the very end, when we were kind of tapering off, you suggested, hey, let's see what would happen if we got rid of that for share and maybe had another carb alternative that didn't have as many fat grams in it, because we were really playing around with numbers for me and I was just like, no, I don't want to, that's all good, that's right.
• 29:39
  Philip Pape: I like to give options, right, like sometimes you want your coach to just tell you what to do.
• 29:42
  Philip Pape: But seriously, sometimes you need options.
• 29:44
  Philip Pape: And I'm not going to say it's like a child, but that did come to mind right, because when you have a kid like I remember when our kids are little, it'd be like give them two options, exactly, and it's cool, because we are humans and we do get paralyzed by indecision sometimes.
• 29:56
  Philip Pape: But also, if you are too restrictive and say like this is the only way, then people can push back if they really want to have their chocolate, that's cool.
• 30:03
  Philip Pape: You're an adult, you know.
• 30:04
  Melanie: Well, I think, logically for me, I knew that that was going to do, that was going to do, that was going to shift stuff.
• 30:09
  Melanie: I knew it.
• 30:09
  Melanie: Like it makes sense Logically, you're consuming less fat grams.
• 30:12
  Melanie: Obviously it's going to make a shift, but for me it was also at that time.
• 30:16
  Melanie: Hey, I feel like this is a way for me to kind of be more consistent with the plan, because I'm getting my treat, and so my concern was well, if I drop it, am I going to feel like I'm being restricted?
• 30:30
  Melanie: Because throughout my, our entire deficit journey I didn't feel restricted, and that generally is the case with me.
• 30:36
  Melanie: I don't feel restricted.
• 30:37
  Melanie: But if I felt at that time, if we had just taken away that chocolate, I would have felt like, oh, this is no fun.
• 30:44
  Philip Pape: It was the one thing.
• 30:44
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it was like a symbol of freedom.
• 30:47
  Melanie: Of normalcy.
• 30:48
  Melanie: Yes, Like this is normal.
• 30:49
  Melanie: I'm still eating a chocolate.
• 30:50
  Melanie: This is not a deficit.
• 30:51
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no for sure.
• 30:52
  Philip Pape: And people listening, you guys all know what your we call them non-negotiables are.
• 30:56
  Philip Pape: Now, not everything can be a non-negotiable.
• 30:59
  Philip Pape: If your non-negotiable is three glasses of wine every night, we're going to have a discussion about that non-negotiable.
• 31:04
  Philip Pape: But yeah, perfectly wrong.
• 31:06
  Philip Pape: It's funny because I'm thinking about how I'm going to go into fat loss phase in like two weeks myself and all the things I'm going to cut out and that's where your brain goes.
• 31:13
  Philip Pape: But really the brain has to go to like you know, what am I keeping in that I enjoy, and then I'm going to make everything else kind of scale around it to still be successful with fat loss.
• 31:21
  Philip Pape: And for me that's probably ice cream or something.
• 31:24
  Philip Pape: But you don't have options today.
• 31:25
  Philip Pape: With technology, with food science, with ninja creamies, you know there's all sorts of ways to get creative about this.
• 31:34
  Philip Pape: All right, so what a classic table topic style question, like if you can go back and tell yourself something that you didn't know back then and by back then I mean either when we started or it could even be way back when.
• 31:43
  Philip Pape: Uh, what would you tell your younger self?
• 31:47
  Melanie: I mean what I?
• 31:47
  Melanie: It's basically just trust the process and be consistent, like those are the two things that I think will really factor into somebody having success with achieving their goals.
• 32:00
  Melanie: And it's really hard to trust the process and I get that because for some people that the visual differences, or even the quantifiable differences, aren't immediate and it may take a month or two or three, like it, especially if you don't have a, you're not working with large numbers, right?
• 32:22
  Melanie: It's not like you want to drop 40 pounds, you may want to drop five pounds, and sometimes that smaller number is the harder number, right, because it just is.
• 32:31
  Melanie: And so trust the process that was something that I had struggles with when I first started.
• 32:38
  Melanie: And then just be consistent, right, because science is not doesn't lie Like, the more consistent you are, just the faster you'll see your results.
• 32:46
  Melanie: So, truly, you hold, you hold how fast you're going to achieve your goals.
• 32:53
  Melanie: But, that being said, also, you might discover things with your body that you weren't expecting, right.
• 32:57
  Melanie: Maybe your body isn't responding to something that you planned out for, and then you're just going to have to adapt and tweak.
• 33:04
  Melanie: And that's where working with somebody like you comes into play, because something that works for me that you've prescribed may not work for somebody else that you've prescribed may not work for somebody else that you've prescribed, but because you've worked with so many people, you kind of know all these little tricks to throw out there for people to try, and that's the value that comes from hiring someone to work with you, and they're working with you.
• 33:28
  Melanie: You're not working for them, they're not working for you.
• 33:31
  Melanie: Y'all are on this journey together, and I think that's one of the things that people also don't necessarily understand.
• 33:38
  Melanie: Like you're in it as much as I'm in it on my journey right, because it's you're making the plan and I'm following it, but we both have input in what's happening too.
• 33:49
  Philip Pape: Oh yeah, and I want to make sure that plan adapts with you in real time.
• 33:54
  Philip Pape: And it's funny you mentioned you talked about experimentation and learning about your body and all that.
• 33:58
  Philip Pape: I will have clients that early on will say, hey, this thing kind of is not working, so I tested by doing this and I'm all for testing, trust me, I am.
• 34:08
  Philip Pape: The accelerator you get, I think, with a coach is they can say don't do that again, like that test you just did.
• 34:13
  Philip Pape: It's not going to work, but it's cool that you tried it.
• 34:15
  Philip Pape: I'm all for that, but like if you were on your own, you would try it and maybe go a long time not understanding why it did or didn't work.
• 34:22
  Philip Pape: You know that that's what comes to mind.
• 34:23
  Philip Pape: For me is like no, no, no, no want to experiment.
• 34:28
  Melanie: I mean, there's so much more wealth of knowledge that you have with working with so many people, and that's something that you know me I'm not going to have, even though, like you've mentioned, I've done this for so long, but I've only done this for so long, with me and my body's changing every year, so it's almost like I'm a different person every year.
• 34:44
  Melanie: So, like we mentioned, what worked last year may not work for me, may not work as well for me this year.
• 34:50
  Philip Pape: For sure, and every person at every time is a unique starting point, so you've got to be willing to like, open your eyes to what the data is telling you.
• 35:01
  Carol: Before I started working with Philip, I had been trying to lose weight and was really struggling with consistency, but from the very beginning, philip took the time to listen to me and understand my goals.
• 35:11
  Carol: He taught me the importance of fueling my body with the right foods to optimize my training in the gym, and I lost 20 pounds.
• 35:20
  Carol: More importantly, I gained self-confidence.
• 35:25
  Carol: What sets Philip apart is the personal connection.
• 35:29
  Carol: He supported and encouraged me every step of the way.
• 35:32
  Carol: So if you're looking for a coach who cares about your journey as much as you do, I highly recommend Philip Pape.
• 35:41
  Philip Pape: When you mentioned trust the process.
• 35:42
  Philip Pape: I guess one obvious question then would be or philosophical question almost is when someone said well, what is the process?
• 35:48
  Philip Pape: What do you mean by that?
• 35:49
  Philip Pape: Like is it?
• 35:49
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean, and I know that's kind of a loaded question, but if somebody has that confusion, what would you say?
• 35:56
  Melanie: I mean, ultimately it just boils down to if you eat less than your expenditure, you are just going to lose weight.
• 36:01
  Melanie: But that's frustrating sometimes because you feel like you're eating so much less than you're putting out.
• 36:08
  Melanie: So why isn't the fat loss happening faster?
• 36:10
  Melanie: And it just won't?
• 36:16
  Melanie: Because your body is going to be like hey, I'm not going to let go of this so quickly because I don't know when we're going to get food again.
• 36:20
  Melanie: I mean, it's one of those things, right?
• 36:20
  Melanie: Uh?
• 36:20
  Melanie: But back when in my twenties, I was like well, as long as I don't eat, I'm going to.
• 36:23
  Melanie: I'm not, I'm going to lose weight, and you, that's just.
• 36:25
  Melanie: Life's too short to not enjoy eating.
• 36:27
  Melanie: There is so much good food out there, man.
• 36:35
  Melanie: So as long as you are just level-headed and approach everything in moderation and just trust, trust the process, right, it's hey, I'm, I'm getting all the nutrients in, I'm getting my fiber in, I'm getting my carbs, my fat, my protein in and everything.
• 36:56
  Melanie: And you have the luxury of playing around with what you want to eat, right, like, if you want to have a big juicy steak one day, go for it.
• 37:03
  Melanie: Once again, it's a one day thing, right.
• 37:06
  Melanie: The next day you can go back to your thing.
• 37:09
  Melanie: Your body adapts so well at any age.
• 37:11
  Melanie: Like it's not like it adapts so well at any age.
• 37:15
  Melanie: It just may take a little bit longer as you get older, and that's normal, but it will adapt.
• 37:21
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I love it.
• 37:22
  Philip Pape: You talked about energy balance.
• 37:23
  Philip Pape: It's a fact, no-transcript, at least have like grasped that concept.
• 37:50
  Philip Pape: And then it's like well, what is that for you?
• 37:51
  Philip Pape: Because it's probably not your hormones, it's probably not menopause, it's probably not any of those things, even though they have an impact.
• 37:57
  Philip Pape: It's the fundamentals.
• 37:59
  Philip Pape: So you mentioned moderation, nutrients, balance, flexibility.
• 38:04
  Philip Pape: That sounds like a great diet, as opposed to cut out all carbs or cut out all plants.
• 38:10
  Melanie: Well, what I want to highlight again, because we probably just glossed over it in the beginning, I came to you off that issue where I wasn't eating and I was definitely not lean.
• 38:21
  Melanie: So that does I mean I would just, I would just survive, basically, basically.
• 38:27
  Melanie: But my body did not like that, obviously.
• 38:29
  Melanie: And now I'm eating.
• 38:30
  Melanie: I'm eating what I should be eating for my you know body type or whatever, and I'm still leaning out because now my body is used to this.
• 38:40
  Melanie: So don't think that you just have to stop eating.
• 38:42
  Melanie: Your body will get used to you introducing food back.
• 38:46
  Melanie: Remember that when you go on a deficit, you may be limiting the amount of food that you're eating, but that's not going to be forever.
• 38:54
  Melanie: You can still maintain that aesthetic goal or whatever into your maintenance and increase more calories because there's a scientific approach to it and you do that so well.
• 39:03
  Melanie: You know that your deficit journey is just such a short period of time of what your whole journey is going to be, so you just have to make that quote, unquote sacrifice for just a short period of time.
• 39:16
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it's like a competition almost with yourself.
• 39:18
  Philip Pape: For a short period of time You're going out, you're competing, you're, you're pushing yourself, your discomfort, your, you know it's a change and then you're done and, like you said, sustaining it is important because 95% of people and I know Paul Salter, his company used to be called the 5% solution because it referred to those 5% who successfully maintain the results, versus the 95% who don't so.
• 39:40
  Melanie: but people are afraid, like when I stop my diet I'm just going to gain it all back, Right, Not if you do it Right, I mean, and, like I said, you can still have days where you, you know, go out and you're eating a nice dinner at a restaurant, you have that slice of cake for dessert or whatever, and then the next day, the next meal is a new meal, a new day, a new start.
• 40:00
  Melanie: Just be consistent.
• 40:02
  Melanie: It really sounds so repetitive, but it really is.
• 40:05
  Melanie: On the days that you don't want to go to the gym, just go to the gym, start walking on the treadmill if you don't feel like lifting, because it then just starts to click.
• 40:13
  Melanie: You're like well, I'm here already, might as well, just go, let's just do some free weights.
• 40:17
  Melanie: Oh well, okay, well, the squat rack's empty.
• 40:18
  Melanie: Well, let's.
• 40:19
  Melanie: The other thing to mention I was pretty, pretty repetitive.
• 40:23
  Melanie: I think at one point you were like are you just copying and pasting your food choices?
• 40:35
  Melanie: Because I literally eat the same thing every day for the most part.
• 40:39
  Melanie: And I do that because, once again, I don't want to have to think I've got what fits my prescribed plan and I don't want to have to think I've got what fits my prescribed plan and I don't want to have to think about it changing every day, and that works for somebody like me and may not work for somebody like, say, my husband.
• 40:54
  Melanie: If he were to do it, he can't do that repetitiveness, and so you, if that is something that works for you.
• 40:59
  Melanie: It's such an easy thing because I would have my meals prepped in the fridge ready to go.
• 41:04
  Melanie: You know, I'd buy rotisserie chickens from the grocery store, just shred it, it's ready to go.
• 41:09
  Melanie: I always have protein on hand and I was fine eating chicken for every meal.
• 41:13
  Melanie: It didn't phase me at all.
• 41:15
  Melanie: That, I think, also really helps the planning having something ready to go, Because you don't want to be, well, I'm really really hungry and I don't have anything to eat except this package of Oreos, if you will Right, and it doesn't have any protein in it or the protein that you should be having or whatever or plan to have.
• 41:36
  Melanie: So as long as you're kind of have stuff ready to go, that also comes in really handy, because then it's that little click of well, I don't have it, I'm just going to eat whatever.
• 41:50
  Philip Pape: Now that doesn't necessarily happen.
• 41:51
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, that's.
• 41:52
  Philip Pape: I mean meal planning, meal prepping is.
• 41:52
  Philip Pape: It's a spectrum Like you alluded to.
• 41:54
  Philip Pape: Like you like to eat the same thing every day, that's great.
• 41:57
  Philip Pape: That'll serve you really well If you like it.
• 41:59
  Philip Pape: If you don't, you can at least have a few options prepared ahead of time for the week.
• 42:02
  Philip Pape: Mix and match them.
• 42:03
  Philip Pape: The point is to get rid of the decision fatigue.
• 42:06
  Philip Pape: I like to call meal prep an act of self-care for your future self right.
• 42:10
  Philip Pape: It's like the stressed out person who may not have food, who's going to eat the Oreos now, has the option Whether it's a snack.
• 42:17
  Philip Pape: I mean, again, it's a spectrum.
• 42:19
  Philip Pape: You could have a whole pantry full of great snacks that you would go to instead of the Oreos or fruit, or you can literally have every meal prepped in Tupperware.
• 42:25
  Philip Pape: You know whatever, whatever way you want to go with that.
• 42:28
  Philip Pape: So it's funny because every new client who isn't educated on that coming in, I'm like, okay, here we go again, like this is.
• 42:35
  Philip Pape: I know this is going to be a game changer for them and a lot of people see it as meal planning, meal prep, like it sounds like this chore, you know, it sounds like budgeting or whatever, and really it ends up being a lot easier, because then the whole week gets freed up from all this meal prep during the week and you're like, oh, now I see.
• 42:51
  Melanie: Yeah, that phrase decision fatigue is I've never.
• 42:54
  Melanie: I mean, I may have heard it before, but it hasn't clicked with me.
• 42:57
  Melanie: But that is exactly why I like being in a deficit, that's exactly why I like not having to think about something.
• 43:05
  Melanie: After I've thought about it one time, it's like, okay, the decision has been made and I'm just going to repeat what we decided again and again, and again.
• 43:13
  Philip Pape: Exactly so.
• 43:13
  Philip Pape: You've got all these great tools.
• 43:15
  Philip Pape: I'm sure we can go on and on about all the things, but it's going to be different for everyone.
• 43:19
  Philip Pape: You've got these results.
• 43:20
  Philip Pape: You're still leaning out a bit.
• 43:22
  Philip Pape: We've got the sprinting added in, which is cool, and still leaning out a bit.
• 43:26
  Philip Pape: We've got the sprinting added in, which is cool.
• 43:27
  Philip Pape: And I you know you're getting stronger, you're getting faster.
• 43:29
  Philip Pape: All these, what's next Are you?
• 43:29
  Philip Pape: You mentioned sustaining it, but I know you always have some goal.
• 43:33
  Melanie: I do.
• 43:33
  Melanie: So, you know, I we've stepped away from working together for right now and I said I'm probably going to reach out again when I want to be in a deficit again, because it's one of those things like I said, I enjoy doing it and I especially enjoy doing it during the holiday season.
• 43:49
  Melanie: It's just an incentive for me to just not go off track Once again.
• 43:55
  Melanie: For me, I would say you know a lot of it is the accountability hey, I have.
• 44:01
  Melanie: I'm working with someone.
• 44:03
  Melanie: I'm letting my team member down if I just do whatever I want to do.
• 44:07
  Melanie: And so one way for me to just know for sure that I am not going to gain the holiday 15 or holiday five or whatever it is, is like, hey, we're working together, we have a goal I'm going to do.
• 44:19
  Melanie: It Doesn't mean that I can't enjoy that one New Year's meal or the one Christmas meal or whatever, but it just means that every time my neighbor brings over a cookie or something, I don't always have to eat it because I'm trying to achieve something for myself.
• 44:31
  Melanie: So right now, while I'm in maintenance, my goal is just to get stronger and stronger and stronger, more so than anything because I am at my aesthetic goal.
• 44:41
  Melanie: My clothes are fitting the way I like them to.
• 44:43
  Melanie: I like the way I look personally, so that's all good.
• 44:53
  Melanie: And then when I want to go into a deficit again, I just like having somebody that's an expert, that will just do all the decision making for me, like you just said, and I just have to follow along and do that.
• 45:00
  Melanie: So that's kind of my plan right now.
• 45:02
  Melanie: Cool yeah, getting stronger is one of my plan right now.
• 45:05
  Philip Pape: Cool, yeah, getting stronger is one of my favorite goals, so you can't go wrong there and honestly, you could do some form of that forever.
• 45:11
  Philip Pape: And uh, again, I mentioned Nikki Sims earlier but she said it's like going from skinny to strong, uh kind of deal.
• 45:18
  Philip Pape: So you know if and when you're ready to build, definitely reach out.
• 45:21
  Philip Pape: But again, you mentioned about losing.
• 45:23
  Philip Pape: You know I've got plenty of clients who do it seasonally.
• 45:26
  Philip Pape: They're like all right, it's fat loss time.
• 45:27
  Philip Pape: Let me go talk to Phillip.
• 45:28
  Philip Pape: You know it's just one of those and I don't take it personally because you know, whatever you need help with, I'm here to help.
• 45:32
  Philip Pape: So let me ask you this as we wrap up is there anything you would say to somebody who's on the fence about coaching and either may not be the right fit for coaching, versus they are Like I'm really curious.
• 45:45
  Philip Pape: I'm always curious about that.
• 45:46
  Philip Pape: Like, is there somebody who shouldn't, other than maybe they can't afford it, or and and you know we all have different price levels, that's different.
• 45:52
  Philip Pape: What do you think?
• 45:54
  Melanie: There's so much value to having a coach because there is so much information out there, it takes so long to kind of comb through the weeds.
• 46:03
  Melanie: It's hard to know what's necessarily accurate.
• 46:06
  Melanie: You could follow three people whom you really admire and trust and they could have three completely different opinions, and then you're just like well, I don't know what I should do for my body.
• 46:14
  Melanie: Am I going to really experiment with all of these things?
• 46:17
  Melanie: Having you in my back pocket, if you will, was just.
• 46:21
  Melanie: It just took all the stress out of it Because, like we mentioned, you've worked with so many people, so you've kind of had the experience of knowing what works or what you can already see is not going to work for somebody.
• 46:34
  Melanie: You know if you're trying something, and so it's just the experience, the ability to kind of cut out all the noise, all that extra noise, and say, hey, let's try this, let's try this Somebody.
• 46:44
  Melanie: If you want that person to make all the decisions for you, great.
• 46:48
  Melanie: If you want it to be more collaborative, great.
• 46:50
  Melanie: Like a coach is supposed to and this is what you do also kind of be a therapist to kind of figure out what that person's uh receptiveness to which coaching style like as somebody.
• 47:02
  Melanie: Does somebody like being told what to do like me, and does it.
• 47:05
  Melanie: Or does somebody like being more collaborative and doing it that way?
• 47:09
  Melanie: So I can't stress enough just how much easier it is to achieve your goals if you work with a coach.
• 47:16
  Melanie: I'm not saying you can't, it's just there's a lot of noise that gets cut out when you work with a coach.
• 47:23
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I like the way you put that, because if you're ever hitting your head against the wall about anything and you've already listened to all the podcasts and read all the books because I've been there where I'm like I could do this it's like, ah, something's not quite cutting it.
• 47:36
  Philip Pape: I mean, just find that person, that expert, get a referral, talk to Melanie, talk to anybody and go for it.
• 47:42
  Philip Pape: So, yeah, I mean thanks for sharing your story today.
• 47:45
  Philip Pape: I know there's probably a lot more we could have gotten into.
• 47:46
  Philip Pape: I guess I'll ask you is there anything we didn't cover?
• 47:48
  Philip Pape: You're like, oh, I gotta, I gotta tell people about this.
• 47:51
  Melanie: No, I think when I remember just meal prepping, like that was such a big thing, I can't believe I almost forgot that one.
• 47:57
  Melanie: But that one does really help you kind of stick with your goals and then just be patient.
• 48:02
  Melanie: It's okay to be frustrated, Just know that it will happen.
• 48:07
  Melanie: The delta is the time.
• 48:10
  Philip Pape: It will happen, absolutely it will happen.
• 48:12
  Philip Pape: It's just a matter of time.
• 48:13
  Philip Pape: Thank you so much, melanie, for coming on, and I'm excited to see what happens next.
• 48:18
  Philip Pape: I am hoping we can stay in touch and maybe get you building some muscle here in the near term.
• 48:23
  Melanie: I'm going to keep saying it, I'm going to keep saying it, I'm going to keep saying it, I'll keep on getting stronger.
• 48:27
  Melanie: So we might, we might, be there.
• 48:29
  Philip Pape: Exactly, exactly Once.
• 48:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, um yeah.
• 48:31
  Philip Pape: If you hit that wall during maintenance, you're like, why isn't it happening?
• 48:46
  Melanie: It's because of the food You're going to need more food.
• 48:47
  Melanie: Yeah, all right.
• 48:47
  Melanie: Well, thank you so much for coming.
• 48:48
  Melanie: Feel free, what's the best way to do that Email, if you want to drop it somewhere, or do you just want me to say it?
• 48:52
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'll drop it in there.
• 48:53
  Philip Pape: I'll drop it in the show notes so people can look at that.
• 48:55
  Melanie: Okay, all right, yeah, that's the best way.
• 48:57
  Philip Pape: Awesome.
• 48:58
  Philip Pape: Thanks so much for coming on.
• 48:59
  Melanie: Thank you.