Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Hysterical Bonding... Or When You Have A Bunch Of Sex Only After There Is A Threat To The Marriage

Transcript

Hysterical Bonding... Or When You Have A Bunch Of Sex Only After There Is A Threat To The Marriage · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today. I am going to be talking about
• 0:10
  hysterical bonding in this was by a request from a Facebook
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• 0:58
  Okay, so hysterical bonding what is it?
• 1:01
  So it's a term that means when there's a threat To the
• 1:05
  relationship and somebody feels like they're going to get
• 1:08
  abandoned. If the lower libido partner
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  feels they're going to get abandoned then frequently they
• 1:14
  ramp up the sex and why does this happen?
• 1:18
  It's not a it's not conscious. I mean it's semi-conscious.
• 1:23
  It's like oh shit. Kind of this person was really
• 1:26
  unhappy about the amount of sex were having.
• 1:28
  I really want to keep them but so there is that of course but
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  it's like anything. It's like the honeymoon stage so
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  it's a very different biological stage you just got cheated on or
• 1:38
  your parents, not your parents or your partner so that they
• 1:44
  want a divorce or sometimes your own Affair got found out but
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  more frequently this is the low libido partner she's not having
• 1:52
  any Affairs but the husband did and for some reason shockingly
• 1:58
  to him they're actually having more sex when his affair is
• 2:01
  found out then in all the years previous you After the honeymoon
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  stage, it's like a second honeymoon.
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  Why isn't she supposed to be super mad at him?
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  She's been saying for all these years that like emotion is
• 2:14
  linked to sex and she doesn't feel close to him then you know,
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  she can't have sex with him. So his all that just garbage and
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  it's just, you know, we should really just inspired red and
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  women like the manosphere tells us obviously not.
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  So hysterical bonding last for a few weeks.
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  It's like this manic phase out of desperation the person.
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  Just does feel spontaneous desire again.
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  They're not faking it, it's the same as when they feel drunk on
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  new love in the honeymoon stage and this is something that like
• 2:45
  an evolutionary imperative. You feel just biologically
• 2:49
  driven to mate guard. I've discussed mate guarding
• 2:52
  before that happens, in all mammals, when you feel like your
• 2:56
  partner, your mate is going to be taken away, then you guard
• 2:59
  them, you know, and this is an implicit sort of biological
• 3:03
  thing, but it doesn't last forever.
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  Nose. So, particularly in the wake of
• 3:07
  infidelity after a few weeks the woman's usually like, what the
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  fuck like, why am I sleeping with this guy?
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  That hurt me that cheated on me or even if he didn't cheat that
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  wanted to leave me? What about all of the empathic
• 3:20
  ruptures that we've had? You know, what about all of
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  that? So this is only very, very
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  temporary spike in the woman's sex drive it goes along with
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  this feeling of urgency and Desperation, she's not eating,
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  she's not sleeping and so she and she acts very He different.
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  She feels like in an altered state.
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  That's how people report the early stages of betrayal trauma.
• 3:41
  It's like you're on drugs or something, you know, and so she
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  may well because she's older now experience sex in a different
• 3:50
  way, she may be open to things that she wasn't even open to in
• 3:53
  the original honeymoon stage. Some of it is to keep his
• 3:56
  interest and may even be conscious but most of it is
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  unconscious and when the women come into therapy, they're like,
• 4:03
  I don't know, I just feel attracted to him.
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  Because remember, this is a time where people come into therapy a
• 4:08
  lot because either divorce was threatened and or infidelity was
• 4:12
  on cover. So what happens is and it's
• 4:16
  interesting, there's a little version of this that happens
• 4:19
  before couples counseling because if the lower limit 0
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  partner was not the initiator of the couples counseling and the
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  dissatisfied higher libido partner was, then the lower
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  libido partner takes it as a threat, you know, to this to the
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  relationships so frequently. People will come in they'll
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  email me like, oh my God, everything's terrible.
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  We haven't had sex in months or years or we do and it's awful
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  and whatever and I'll schedule them and by the time I get them
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  in, which is never very long, like, a week.
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  I really try to get people in quick and they say, oh, we had
• 4:51
  sex twice last week. Actually, so why because the
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  lower libido partner felt, you know that there was a threat.
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  Couples counseling is a serious thing.
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  You don't go to couples counseling, if you're happy.
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  You know so their body responded almost as though it was a you
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  know they had found out about an affair or a threat of divorce,
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  right? Because they feel like, oh, if
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  he's getting us into couples counseling, he means business
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  and like the body like and brain activate to make guard, you
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  know, to end. And also they don't want me to
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  say subconsciously. They don't want me to say that.
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  They are a bad partner in some way.
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  Of course I don't ever call anybody a bad partner, you know?
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  But like, people don't know what couples counseling is, so they
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  don't want me to say something that makes the guy more likely
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  to divorce them. So, it is conceived.
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  Feels almost like a threat and there's like this response, like
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  similar to that. So, anyway, hysterical bonding
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  it can be. If you stay together, then the
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  sex that you're having during hysterical bonding, which is
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  often kind of the Wilder more open sex.
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  Comparatively, you know, maybe even the wildest most open sex
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  at the Couple has had because remember, in this situation,
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  they haven't really been having sex or good sex for years.
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  And back in the honeymoon stage, they were young.
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  The woman didn't really understand her body.
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  She didn't have any confidence and now she don't give a shit.
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  She's laying it all on the table because she feels like her
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  marriage is like, literally about to crumble.
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  And she still cares about that in this phase and feels like she
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  can't live without this guy. Again, this is temporary.
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  And so, they may be having the craziest sex in years.
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  So if they do end up staying, NG together, then it can be, you
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  know, a learning moment, you know, for both of them that they
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  can have passionate sex. Of course, they will not
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  continue ever to have the hysterical bonding sex.
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  That is different. That's like honeymoon stage.
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  That is a biological thing. That's like saying can we have
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  drunk sex when were sober? Can we have vacation sex?
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  When we're at home? No, you can't.
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  Can you have a baby when you have a five-year-old?
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  Can you have a five-year-old when you have a 15?
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  No, you can't have those things. Those, those are different
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  phases of life, right? So people have to kind of accept
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  that as I discussed so many times, including in my article,
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  or my, my podcast, age is not just a number.
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  So hysterical bonding phase lasts for about a few weeks, you
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  know? And at that point, the woman
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  comes down from her high and she's like, what the fuck?
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  You know, you were an asshole to me, and this, and this.
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  And this weighs. Yeah.
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  Maybe I wasn't so great to you either, as you've pointed out.
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  Out. But either way, it's not just
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  going to be like this, this is crazy.
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  We're burying all of the issues we have to work on our
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  relationship and at this point, they're having sex.
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  She's just kind of realized that she hasn't worked on stuff or
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  that they haven't worked on stuff.
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  This is the time to be in counseling, right?
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  Because he's finally getting the sex that he wants and you know
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  in some instances it's the guy that does hysterical bonding.
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  If his higher libido wife cheated or threatens divorce,
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  that Happen to. But again, most of the time the
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  man is a higher libido partner. So that's what I'm discussing
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  here but you can just always flip the gender.
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  So you don't ever have to email me about how, you know, your
• 8:16
  husband doesn't want to sleep with you, I know I mean, you can
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  email me if you want therapy about that.
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  Sure. But, you know, you can always
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  just flip the genders. I understand there's higher
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  libido women about twenty percent, whereas the higher
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  libido men are about 80% in couples.
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  So, you know, that's I go by majority and what most people
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  You know what most people situation is so that it most
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  people. So the most people can feel
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  heard and understood right by the podcast.
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  But anyway, so the point being, this is a good time to really
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  work on all aspects of the marriage because you're super
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  motivated. The guys having sex for the
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  first time in a long time and the woman is also reclaiming her
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  sexuality, although in this manic pressured kind of way.
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  And now if he really Wants to stay in the relationship.
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  He's got to work on the emotional piece and counseling
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  resolve the empathic ruptures Etc because the stupidest thing
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  that he could do. And unfortunately, a common
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  thing that men do is say, oh my God, she's cured, you know, it
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  was right. I you know, all those things I
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  read in the manosphere were right.
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  All I ever had to do was Inspire some dread that I might leave
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  and make her insecure and throw her off balance and and you know
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  and it was all bullshit that we need an emotional connection for
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  sex. Check it out.
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  I just Just fucked around and she's having the most sex she's
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  had in meet with me for years. So obviously, we didn't eat any
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  of that security or emotional safety or any of that bullshit
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  that she was telling me because check it out.
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  Now, you know, and then like, literally the next week, she
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  stops. Because, of course, if your, if
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  your wife is even remotely a healthy, emotionally healthy
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  woman with even an iota of self-esteem, then, of course,
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  she wants to be emotionally Was that her sexual partner within
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  marriage, you know? To like like yeah like women can
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  have one night stands and so can men but when you're married, you
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  know, people both genders really tend to want to feel close and
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  connected to somebody that they're sleeping with their
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  spouse. So it isn't bullshit isn't
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  garbage that she wants to feel emotionally close to you.
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  It's just like her body responded, like to an attack.
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  It would be like you know, that I think about it like this.
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  So what if A car, you know, fell on your kid, you know these
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  situations you read about in the newspaper and then with a burst
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  of adrenaline your wife like a mighty mama bear or you know
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  pick the car up off of yours your child and pulled them out
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  right. Would you expect her be able to
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  do that? Like every day.
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  Like as part of CrossFit or something like, you know, like
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  just every day just fucking lift up a car.
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  No. You know, her address Talon is
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  pumping to a point that she's probably going to be like in bed
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  for three weeks after That event happens, you know?
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  But she can do it because it's an emergency, and that's like
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  how her body and brain are responding to the attack on the
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  marriage, you know. And she's thinking at that point
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  almost, like I can't live without him.
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  Oh my God. Oh my God.
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  But believe me, she ain't gonna think like that forever.
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  She didn't think of before you know, the whole time she wasn't
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  sleeping with you. She didn't think it and she's
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  not going to think it again and it's the same thing.
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  If you invert, the genders, you know, like people a Act in this
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  manic crazy desperate way. If they feel like the
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  relationship is, you know, is going away, and they feel
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  abandoned, and this is like a normal mammal impulse to keep
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  your partner or your group close.
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  But then people like they, their objectivity comes back in there.
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  Like, mmm, you know, is this relationship really worth
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  saving? Yeah, we're doing a lot of sex
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  now. He seems happy more boys, he has
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  shallow motherfucker, you know, where I That's all he thinks it
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  takes to keep me even though he cheated.
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  Or even though he told me that we were going to get divorced
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  and blah, blah, blah. So, that's the point at, which
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  if you really want to use the hysterical bonding phase for,
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  you know, most effectively to help the marriage.
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  You know, you would at this point.
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  Begin also, to address whatever the wife's emotional issues have
• 12:29
  been over the years which were real, just because she'll have
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  crazy sex with you for like up to a Apple months some people
• 12:36
  it's a couple months especially if like she keeps uncovering
• 12:40
  other bad shit that the guy did like in terms of cheating, then
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  the hysterical bonding last basically until you know, few
• 12:46
  weeks after she's uncovered, the last of it with some woman.
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  I mean someone will just leave the guy, you know, but some
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  women that have small kids or, you know, a longer history
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  together or lower self-esteem or whatever, the case may be, or
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  they love the guy more, who knows they will stay.
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  And be in this historical bonding phase after betrayal.
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  So anyway, what's the tldr with the Takeaway on this one
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  hysterical bonding is something. You should never try to promote
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  as I wrote about in or I discussed in my podcast on
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  inspiring dread. This is manipulative unethical
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  and healthy, women will not respond to it.
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  When there is an existential threat to the marriage or tool
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  to to you know, your child's life and the case of the car
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  people will respond with a jolt of adrenaline.
• 13:35
  Gentleman and basically Mania, and they will act in ways that
• 13:39
  are antithetical to how they previously acted if you want any
• 13:43
  change to come and any sexual Awakening to actually transpire
• 13:47
  and have any sort of consequence.
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  So, yeah, like let's say like you you cheated on your wife.
• 13:55
  You let's say I'll do people love examples, right?
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  10 years of a sexless marriage. You have sex like 10 times a
• 14:00
  year and finally like you reach your breaking point and you get
• 14:04
  drunk you Out and some woman offers you a blow job by the
• 14:07
  grace of God and you do it and then you feel like trash and the
• 14:12
  next day you come home and you could find to your wife and you
• 14:14
  cry. And you say I feel terrible
• 14:17
  about myself. This isn't the man that I want
• 14:18
  to be. I feel just so desperate and
• 14:21
  lonely and frustrated in this situation.
• 14:23
  And you don't take me seriously, that sex is a need.
• 14:26
  And so, I did this disgusting thing and I feel terrible, I
• 14:28
  never should have done it. I just feel like we're not our
• 14:30
  best selves in this marriage. There's nowhere to go from here.
• 14:33
  So I really think we should get Divorced.
• 14:35
  Right? And so your wife is like, whoa,
• 14:38
  like massively taken aback, she did not realize the gravity of
• 14:41
  the situation as many women do not in that situation.
• 14:45
  Which is like basically what most of my blog and podcast is
• 14:48
  about is explaining men and women to each other.
• 14:50
  And as I've discussed innumerable times, women do not
• 14:53
  understand how much men think of being married as being sexual
• 14:58
  with your wife. Like, that's just like
• 15:00
  synonymous. Etc.
• 15:02
  Etc. So she has this Grand Awakening.
• 15:05
  And she gives you a blowjob. Well, shit.
• 15:08
  I got to blow jobs in two days you're like, fucking flying.
• 15:11
  This is. What is this, a dream?
• 15:13
  You know? And, and not only that, but you
• 15:15
  have sex again, like, to the next day, which she's not done,
• 15:19
  since she was 22. And then the day after that and
• 15:22
  blah blah, and you think holy shit.
• 15:24
  I finally got through to her. Now she's she's having her
• 15:28
  sexual Awakening. She's also having orgasms
• 15:31
  everything is groovy. Yeah, until Well, she basically
• 15:36
  comes back to Earth and she's like, wait a second.
• 15:38
  You did what and did I even get tested for STDs and did like,
• 15:42
  and who was that woman? And does she know that you're
• 15:44
  married and you did what where? And let me see your phone and
• 15:48
  she still texting you now and why did you think that?
• 15:51
  That would be something that you should do.
• 15:52
  You should have just told us to go to counsel.
• 15:54
  You should have even just asked for a divorce but what you
• 15:56
  shouldn't have done is put your penis in that skanks mouth,
• 16:00
  right? Etc, etc.
• 16:01
  And then that's when people call for couples counseling.
• 16:04
  And so, This moment. Yeah, she had a big Epiphany
• 16:07
  that she could like giving you a blowjob, you know, cool and she
• 16:11
  ain't ever gonna do it again unless you apologize as you
• 16:16
  know, like forever not forever like for a year and you really
• 16:22
  work on whatever her problems were with you, which you're not
• 16:25
  a perfect person either even aside from the incident that
• 16:28
  transpired, right? And I'll remember all my stuff
• 16:31
  is hypothetical, but it is an amalgam of many things that have
• 16:34
  happened to me. Me people.
• 16:36
  And so the reality is that couple could a year out with
• 16:41
  work, become people, whose narrative is as follows.
• 16:45
  We had a sexless marriage in the past we really didn't understand
• 16:48
  each other at all. We were talking past each other.
• 16:50
  They were many empathic ruptures.
• 16:52
  It culminated in a really disgusting incident of
• 16:55
  infidelity that he regrets. I have forgiven him for this in
• 16:59
  light of how much he worked on our marriage in the wake of this
• 17:02
  discovery of course he even brought it to me what a good
• 17:05
  Guy, you know, as good as you could be in that situation and
• 17:09
  after that, we've really worked on our sex life in our
• 17:11
  connection, we're even stronger now than ever before, right?
• 17:16
  So, that's possible. That's the dream.
• 17:18
  Esther perel writes about the idea of quote marriage 2.0 in
• 17:21
  her book, the State of Affairs, such that, you know, you can't
• 17:25
  ever go back to the marriage before the infidelity, but after
• 17:27
  the infidelity, you could create another marriage that's even
• 17:29
  better and stronger because you've understood each other
• 17:32
  better due to This calamity that transpired.
• 17:35
  Third, EG the infidelity. Okay.
• 17:37
  So hopefully you guys got something out of this and it's
• 17:41
  something to think about and I will talk to you soon.
• 17:44
  Have a great day.